Telekom Malaysia Berhad (TM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good evening, and welcome to today's conference. You are now participating in Telekom Malaysia Berhad Fourth Quarter 2020 Analyst Briefing Call. [Operator Instructions] I will now hand over this session to the conference leader, Encik Imri Mokhtar, Managing Director and Group Chief Executive Officer of Telekom Malaysia Berhad. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you very much. [Foreign Language], and I bid all of you a very good afternoon. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you and welcome to our fourth quarter 2020 analyst briefing. 2020 started off with much uncertainty and challenges. Today, as we close our financial books on 2020, I'm pleased to report that TM was not only resilient in facing these headwinds, but at the same time, we provided several initiatives to our retail customers to stay connected at home. We contributed to the GLC Disaster Response Network as well as launched a fundraising campaign to assist where we could. We had also participated in the Sukuk Prihatin, which was initiated by the government, to participate and contribute to the rebuilding of the nation. I shall begin this session with a brief overview of the quarter and our current performance. Our group CFO, Encik Razidan, will then elaborate on the financial and operational details. At the end of our presentation, we will open the floor for Q&A. 2020 was a year of much uncertainty and challenges. These uncertainties has required us to evolve, changing the way we work, becoming more efficient in our execution and being more prudent on managing resources. Against this backdrop of constant change, I'm happy to report that we have recorded significant improvements in our fundamentals, especially on yearly cost and profitability. As per our guidance, our group revenues saw a contraction from 2019, the direct impact on the full year Streamyx price adjustment and the headwinds from the challenges posed by the pandemic. Nevertheless, our performance improvement programs continued to bear fruit with strong EBIT and PATAMI growth recorded for the previous year. We are proud to report that this is our highest EBIT since 2008, which is the demerger year, and our highest PATAMI since 2012. As such, our achievements have managed to meet our profit guidance for 2020. The new economy has brought about changing customer behavior and new opportunities as our retail products saw increased take-ups with encouraging indicators moving forward in 2021. Our household convergence penetration stands at a record high, and we will continue to offer attractive and competitive products serving the needs of the nation. We also understand that this is a promise to ensure our customers that they would have the best broadband experience in these trying times. For our shareholders, we are declaring a final interim dividend of MYR 0.075 per share with a payout amounting to MYR 283 million for the financial year of 2020. I will now have Razidan to take you through our financial and operational details, but I'll be back to conclude and provide you a glimpse into what you can expect in the medium to long term. Over to you, Razidan.

Thank you, Imri. [Audio Gap] As per our guidance, our operating revenue recorded a decline of 5.2% at MYR 10.84 billion against the financial year 2019. Contractions were seen on all products, and this is largely driven by voice, which recorded 11.5% degrowth in comparison with the previous year. Despite the above, we are pleased to report that our operational efficiency initiatives continue to deliver positive results. If you look at our EBIT, it improved by 2.3% on the back of lower operating costs at MYR 1.6 billion. As Imri pointed out earlier, this is the highest EBIT recorded by the company since the demerger back in 2008. Depreciation and amortization declined by 6.9% due to lower depreciation for property, plant and equipment in 2020. Our net finance cost declined by 4.8% at MYR 372.1 million, and this was mainly due to the lower interest from finance lease liabilities and the maturity of our loans during the year. And taking into account all of the above, our PATAMI for financial year 2020 was boosted by 60.6% to MYR 1.02 billion from MYR 632.7 million in the previous year. I will now take you through our operating highlights. Let's take a look at our revenue by product from a quarter-on-quarter view. Whilst we were initially expecting challenges on the retail front in 2020, changing customer behavior and priorities influenced by the pandemic have all resulted in revenue growth for Internet, data and others. Voice revenue has reduced by 2.6%, and this was contributed by the decrease in voice usages in TM WHOLESALE and TM ONE but balanced by the increase at unifi. Internet was higher by 1.1%, and this was mainly due to the higher unifi subscriber base and also higher ARPU in the current quarter. Data increased by 9.9%, mainly contributed by TM WHOLESALE, particularly from higher IRU deals. Other revenue also saw an improvement by about 61%, and this was mainly from one-off customer projects from the government sector as well as higher retail device revenues. The sale of our mesh and box devices -- Plus Box devices garnered very strong traction since the launch of our unifi Your World campaign in the second half of 2020. And we expect Internet and data will continue with a positive momentum, while voice would taper off moving forward. Let's move on to the performance by cluster. On a similar trend, positive performance is recorded for all of our business lines on a quarter-to-quarter basis. For unifi, the overall revenue was higher by 5.5% compared to the last quarter, and this was mainly due to the higher unifi ARPU and subscriber base. Unifi is a key component of our business, and we are hopeful to sustain this subscriber growth as we continue to enhance the quality of our offerings. For TM ONE, the 17.4% revenue increase was contributed by higher customer and ICT projects in the current quarter as compared to third quarter 2020. And this trend in TM ONE for the fourth quarter is quite predictable as our customers usually utilize the remaining budgets at the end of the financial year, especially for the government sector. TM WHOLESALE, revenue has climbed up by 15.3% in Q4 2020 against the previous quarter, and this was driven primarily by higher IRU recorded in the current quarter. And for other business, we saw an improvement of about 7.8% in revenue by quarter-on-quarter comparison and contributed by higher tuition fees at MMU, and this was due to the highest student intake in the current quarter. Let's move on to Slide #9, which is our physical performance. Our total broadband customers as at -- for the fourth quarter 2020 saw solid growth of 3% from the last quarter at more than 2.33 million. Our unifi customer base continues to be on a growth momentum, which began in early 2020 with 8% increase compared to the last quarter. Convergence penetration for 3P and above was at 60% compared to 58% from the last quarter as we saw increased demand for higher-value products. And this was the highest penetration for 3P and above that we have ever achieved since our first reporting of convergence penetration in 2018. As a result, we have managed to arrest the decline of unifi ARPU and saw the fourth quarter ARPU exceeding the previous quarter and 2019 levels. As previously mentioned, the strong take-up of our mesh and Plus Box devices were one of the key drivers for the uplift in ARPU. We are quite optimistic to further growth of the subscriber base. And we'll continue to enhance our customer journey in discovering value services to fulfill the needs of both new and existing customers. I will now elaborate on our operating costs, which is shown on Slide #10. On a quarterly basis, the total cost has increased, mainly contributed by direct cost, and this is in line with the revenue jump. Customer projects and devices that were charged upfront were the main contributors in direct cost. Other OpEx saw some backlog costs attributed by previous preventive maintenance works as well as higher A&P costs. And this is consistent with our normal business trend, which is likely to continue in the future. As we -- at the fourth quarter -- let's focus more on the full year, and we take great pride on the continued positive impact of our cost improvement initiatives. For 2020, we have managed to reduce all our cost line items from the preceding year. Our total cost dropped by 6.6%, and our cost efficiency improved from 87.5% to 86.2% of revenue. On a yearly basis, direct costs declined due to lower international voice and lease-out payments at TM WHOLESALE. There was also a decrease in customer projects and ICT-related services at TM ONE, and there was lower content costs for the year. Manpower was recorded lower, in line with the lower number of headcount in 2020. Other OpEx was also lower, and this was mainly due to the decrease in A&P activities, traveling, utilities. And this is all in line with the restrictions imposed by the pandemic MCO. There was also a decrease in CPE replacement cost during the year. D&A declined in 2020 as compared to the previous year, mainly due to the lower depreciation expense for property, plant and equipment. Let's take a look at group CapEx. Our CapEx for financial year 2020 was at 13.7% of revenue or MYR 1.486 million -- billion, which is higher than the amount for 2019. And out of the amount spent, 53% was for access, 22% was made for core network, and the balance 25% was made for support system. Looking at our group financial ratios. If you look at cash and bank balances, these were lower at MYR 4.15 billion, attributed to the lower receipts from customers for the year but is offset by the lower finance costs. The increase in financing activities is a result of repayment of loans and sukuk maturing in 2020. And we expect the amount to decline further with the coming debt maturities in the near future. Well, that's all for the financial and operating highlights. I'd like to hand this session over to Imri. Over to you, Imri.

Thank you, Razidan. Moving on to the new year. We would like to open 2021 with a fresh guidance based on our current performance and taking into account the challenges in our operating landscape. For our top line, we are projecting a flat to a low single-digit revenue growth in 2021 after 3 consecutive years of revenue decline. And this is anchored by improvements that we're seeing on the retail front, unifi as well as TM ONE, as well as our other business lines such as WHOLESALE, which is what we expect during the year -- the course of the year in 2021. This, together with the transformation and cost optimization initiatives that's currently underway, has given us the confidence in projecting an EBIT of more than MYR 1.6 billion at the end of 2021, of more than what we had registered in 2020. Our CapEx rollout has been relatively lower than what we expected in 2021. Hence, for -- sorry, in 2020. Hence, for 2021, our guidance is 14% to 18% of revenue for the various projects and activities to support the business growth. Next, moving on to Slide 15. I'm pretty excited today to shed some light on how we are planning to achieve these targets in 2021 and even beyond and unveil the new TM compass of what will guide us over the next few years of purpose, customers, performance and people, which inculcates a new performance culture, focus on outcome and impact on TM as we look to further improve our EBIT growth through 3 areas of excellence: the first one being connectivity; the second being solutions; and the third, on the customer experience with revenue growth from our lines of businesses, from unifi, TM ONE and TM WHOLESALE, better cost management and productivity from operational optimization and, of course, improved customer experience. For 2021, our continued priority is our customers. We have taken a hard look at our current offerings, compared that with our peers here in Malaysia as well as globally. And we are cognizant of the need for us to improve our customer experience. We are examining each stage of the customer's journey to identify the pain points and finding ways to alleviate them, whether through touch points enhancements, systems upgrades, process overhaul or any other related improvements. And a key component of this execution, this higher tempo within TM is, of course, our people. We are now accelerating the future and upskilling of our people to improve productivity as well as customer centricity. We have identified and have kicked off more than 40 value program teams and next several leaders, which will spearhead this transformation. Investments are made to equip them to allow rapid and better decision-making and high execution tempo to match the current rapidly changing environment, which is the needs and the requirements of our customers. We believe these improvements will allow us to move forward at a faster speed and pushing our business performance even further to fulfill both our commercial sustainability as well the nation-building objectives. We look forward to the implementation of MyDIGITAL, the digital -- the Malaysia digital economy blueprint, a blueprint by the government to accelerate the nation's digital enablers towards a technology -- technologically advanced economy by 2030. And at TM, we are ready and excited to play a significant role in this accelerated journey. Enhanced connectivity will be the driver in the digital economy, which is expected to create more opportunities for everyone. The government's decision to strengthen the global connectivity and expedite the 5G rollout requires us to not only improve the existing infrastructure but also to ensure the infrastructure is future-proof. We look forward to support the creation of that -- of the government SPV with our 570,000 kilometers of fiber network, which will enable, we believe, a fast and cost-effective rollout of 5G infrastructure. We're also thankful and grateful to the government to be selected as the only home-based cloud service provider amongst the other big Silicon Valley players and to provide data center as well as cloud services in Malaysia, particularly to the public sector. This is a testament to our leading data center and cloud infrastructure with cybersecurity as well as artificial intelligence embedded into it. We do as well anticipate that the country and TM will require people that are ready to face the digital opportunity and equipped with the right skill sets. Our multimedia university, MMU, is today currently offering courses in artificial intelligence and big data analytics towards building digital capabilities for the country. We, at TM, are also working towards establishing our digital academy in the fourth quarter -- in the earlier part of the fourth quarter in 2021 towards providing TM with a digitally skilled manpower. We truly believe that MyDIGITAL will propel the country towards a full-fledged digital Malaysia in 2030, improving the lives of every member in the society. And moving on, we continue to see sustainability as we pursue the growth in the coming years as our responsibility as well as an advantage to grow our business responsibly. Integrating sustainability into our business operations show how we safeguard ourselves and our stakeholders from future disruptions, creating new opportunities for growth as well as well-being. We are committed to the environmental, social and governance, the ESG sustainability framework. Our efforts has been recognized where we have been acknowledged as one of the 75 Bursa Malaysia companies to qualify for the FTSE4Good Bursa Malaysia Index with a full rating of 4 out of 4. We are continuously improving our efforts towards creating more value towards sustainability, while at the same time, upholding our promise to our shareholders. And before we proceed with the Q&A, let's wrap up the presentation with some key takeaways. We are proud with the achievements in 2020, reflecting the resiliency of our business and our people in facing uncertain adversity. Our performance has further strengthened our conviction in the transformation and the cost optimization program moving forward that will carry on in 2021, as outlined earlier. We expect 2021 will continue to be more exciting with the expected recovery in the economy, and we remain optimistic for the future. TM Group, we believe, will be at the forefront in this new economy, improving the quality of life of our customers and supporting nation-building initiatives and programs, MyDIGITAL, including JENDELA, as well as other stimulus plans to help the social economic recovery at this most critical time. We remain confident of the new compass that we've set ourselves that will help us to navigate through this unprecedented period, and we are committed to continue to bring value for our customers and shareholders. And with that, I thank you very much for your attention. So let's open the floor for the Q&A session.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from Mr. Arthur from Citigroup.

Three questions, please. First one is on the divergence between revenues and EBIT in the fourth quarter. Revenue seems to have expanded very big Q-on-Q, but we see that EBIT is actually contracted. What's driving this jump? Second question I had is with regard to the operations, particularly on broadband. The unifi stock seems to have accelerated quite dramatically into the fourth quarter. What's driving this? And are you seeing the level is sustained into January and Feb? And last one would be on the government program with regard to 5G. How is TM looking to participate in that segment?

The revenues for the fourth quarter, I think, was the -- one of the very -- the highest that we achieved for the year compared to all the first, second and third quarters. However, the EBIT is slightly low. This is as a result of a lot of the contracts that we secured in the fourth quarter are coming from the government side, where the margins are a little bit low compared to normal commercial contracts. So that pulled down the EBIT.

And on the second question, Arthur, with regards to the broadband growth, yes, we are seeing a strong take-up in the market from -- especially from our home segment in unifi as we go through this new phase of MCO in Malaysia, as more and more of them have started even with the online education and so forth. And for fast, stable connection for the household, it is through fixed broadband. And what we are seeing is that, that momentum that we've seen last year, we do expect that to continue for -- in 2021. To your third question on MyDIGITAL, particularly, it was on the 5G special purpose vehicle, was it? How does TM see our role in that?

Yes.

The details was just announced -- was announced by the Prime Minister on Friday, and there was a bit more color that was given by the regulators, MCMC, on Monday, I believe, to the media, to the analysts as well as to the industry towards the end of the day. I think let's look as we get more clarity from the government on what is expected. But there are some beliefs at our end that 5G, regardless whether it's going to be through the government SPV or whether it's going to be from the industry, right, the sites would require a much more better backhaul, right, which is fiber, as we would appreciate. And that's where TM with the fiber that we have on the ground, today, we believe we would be in the position, if you like, to provide that, to support the rollout of a new network, even before 5G gets rolled out, even today in the expansion of the 4G coverage under the current JENDELA plan, right? So it's just a natural proposition that TM can provide with the 570,000 kilometers of fiber that we have in Malaysia and beyond.

Understood. Just to clarify, the guidance that you have now does not include any such opportunities yet on the 5G [indiscernible].

Sorry, the guidance that we provided, does it include...

Any of these 5G opportunities that you [indiscernible].

It does not, all right? It does not because this was something that was just very recently announced, right? If anything, any upside, it will be a stackup to what we have provided in the guidance.

The next question is from Mr. Prem from Macquarie.

Congratulations on a decent set of numbers. I have a few questions, please. Given what you have done in 2020, the guidance for 2021 appears to be very light, especially with regards to EBIT. What exactly are you building into your guidance to drag on profitability in particular? Because I think that flat to single-digit growth on top line makes a lot of sense. But what's going to drag on profitability getting into 2021? And could you provide some color with regards to the medium-term outlook for profitability and also CapEx for TM? I can appreciate there are a lot of moving parts here. But aspirationally, what would you be looking at for TM to deliver over a 3- to 5-year period, especially from a profitability standpoint? And finally, with regards to the cloud, you guys being appointed as the only telco as a cloud provider for the government, what does this mean for TM? And some color around your data center capabilities would be most appreciated.

Sorry, I was -- I just realized I was just talking to myself, right? I was on mute, sorry.

Welcome to the telco problem.

No, this one is more for user error, right?

I mean telco -- the telco analysts, I think, typically, are the worst that -- running phone lines and looks like Telekom Malaysia [indiscernible].

Right. Sorry, Prem. Yes, on the first point on EBIT, right? Back to defer that we are providing a flat or a draggy EBIT guidance, right, for 2021. Yes, you got it spot on. With regards to the revenue, we are looking at the very least, flat, if not a low single-digit growth. And that's a reflection of the turnaround, right, of -- compared, as I mentioned earlier, to the 3 consecutive years of [ revenue ] decline that we've seen at TM. I think that's one. Couple that with the continued contribution of the cost and productivity program that we've seen over the past 2 years or so, I guess it figures what sort of direction does that point our EBIT when it is -- the guidance is more than what it was last year. I mean if you were to reflect back what was the guidance in previous years, we had always been around flat or -- but this is more than, right? So I guess it's the registration of the intent and the expectation of the Board as well as management moving forward. I think that's one. With regards to the medium term, I've shared just now with everyone the new TM, it's about setting a newer trajectory, right? And 2021 is year 1 of that new trajectory. It's not so much just about the plan as well as that additional opportunity that potentially may come from MyDIGITAL as we have more clarity in it. But even on what we have today, we are seeing those signs of better trajectory than what has been for the past few years. But what will be really, really, really different in 2021 onwards is the execution cadence and the execution tempo of this organization called TM, right? What is different is the setting up of what we call the value program teams in TM, more than 40 that we have set up, and each have got clear charters and mandate to deliver, whether it's revenue, whether it's OpEx optimization, whether it's CapEx delivery, whether it's customer experience. And it's about setting up, which we have started since the first week of January, setting up this cross-functional team in a much more -- working in a much more agile way to deliver the outcome or the impact to it. I think if you were to ask me, that is what is going to be significantly different, right, in TM starting from 2021. So we do expect pretty good outcomes to come over the next few years. And in -- coupled with that ambition as well, the CapEx, the investment would also be reflective of that. And whatever that we're good at, we'll continue to do that more like our cost optimization. Look forward to the first quarter when we'll be able to share more color to that impact of not just that the cost optimization but also much more positive revenue achievement. And it's a journey, right, which 2020 is the big step of year 1, right? And the third one, well, you had asked about the cloud, what does it mean to TM. I think that it provides TM the opportunity to serve our government, right? It has -- is it a home run? No, it's not, right? It means that we are one out of the 4, one of the 4 that has been selected. And I guess this is when the -- amongst the 4, the one with the best value proposition would be the one that would be able to secure and deliver the government's aspiration of having, what, 80% of their data on cloud by 2022. And I think what would be an added advantage position for TM is matters such as data residency, right, about sovereignty -- data sovereignty, those sort of things. And particularly, for the government, I think we certainly look forward to share greater clarity from the government on their cloud policy or more the operational or the implementation, the principles of it. So yes, I hope I've covered the 3 areas that you had raised, Prem.

Yes. Maybe given the crowd you're addressing is a bit more financial and I have to be an analyst and ask you this question. But maybe from a financial standpoint, over a 3-year period, you're currently running at about just under 14% ROE based on what you have shown on Slide 12, is there a target either for you or for the Board on what TM should achieve over the next 3 to 5 years? I think that's ultimately where we'd all like to get to. Is this a company that's going to be increasingly more profitable? Or is it going to just play a role in the development of the digital infrastructure without getting paid to do that? I suppose that's more the interest of shareholders.

Prem, I'm excited to share that, but you know that I'm not able to do that, right? The best that I could is for this year's guidance. And I hope it provides you the -- that sense, right? When I said that 2021 is only year 1, a big step in that year 1 for what is ahead for TM. And I hope the excitement in my voice comes across this -- the phone lines now to wherever you're at, Prem.

Yes. Okay. But safe to assume that, that ROE target is higher than where we are now.

Sorry, I'm not able to comment. Whatever that I shared -- that we have shared as the 2021 guidance, Prem.

The next question is from Mr. Foong Choong Chen from CIMB.

Congrats on a decent set of results. And I'll try to ask more about 2020 and 2021 in my set of questions. Okay. So firstly, on the Q-on-Q increase in the unifi ARPU, right, I note what Razidan mentioned on the take-up of the mesh and the Plus Box, but do you also see plant upgrades among your existing subs that also drove the big Q-on-Q jump in the ARPUs? And do you think we can sustain, if not further lift, the ARPUs going into this year? That's my first question. Second question with regards to TM ONE's revenue and the pickup in the fourth quarter due to higher customer projects. Do you see that as a sign that customer projects have turned the corner? Or what we saw in the fourth quarter is still largely seasonality? And with regard to Razidan's explanation earlier on about the fact that we had a fair bit of government contracts being booked in 4Q and these tend to be slightly lower margins, can I just try to understand the nature of these contracts, right? Do we front-load the costs on these contracts at the start, and do the margins then improve in the remaining duration of the contract? That's my second question. My third question with regards to costs, were there any one-off cost items in the fourth quarter because we did see a fairly big jump in costs Q-on-Q? And what drove the Q-on-Q increase in the staff costs? And then fourth question, with regards to your CapEx to sales guidance. I'm happy to see that it's still staying quite well contained at 14% to 18% of revenue. But just trying to understand a little bit more about the dynamics here because it's still below your historical range, right, of 20% to 25%, and TM is going to be accelerating the homes passed addition from this year as well. So what is the reason why it hasn't even gone higher than that? Are we sort of expecting the fiber rollout to reach [ 2 ] speed only maybe later this year or next year? Or is it due to like greater efficiencies? Yes, those are my 4 questions.

Okay. Just a comment on the ARPU for the Q-on-Q comparison. I think the ARPU uplift comes from the devices which we actually capture upfront. So as -- but at least it arrests the decline in ARPU over the past 9 months. So this hopefully will be sustainable because the marketing programs do include all this. And I think the team at unifi is very, very aggressive in pushing all these new packages out to the market. On TM ONE, your question as to whether there are, what you call, one-off charges in quarter 4, there were some A&P costs that were charged in quarter 4. There were also, as mentioned just now, on preventive maintenance that we expensed off in quarter 4 as well and also the provision for staff benefits. These are all one-off in nature. For government contracts, these are one-off customer contracts, mainly from the government sector, that we secured in the last quarter of 2020. And unfortunately, some of the margins for these contracts, one-off contracts, are low. So that impacted the overall margins in Q4.

And I'll add into what Razidan had mentioned, right? Yes, the ARPU of unifi had increased quarter-on-quarter driven more from devices, but also there's an upside beyond just that. It provides greater stickiness for the customers as well because these are devices such as the mesh WiFi, such as the unifi Plus Box, as said, that Android TV box, right, and it -- to provide more choices in terms of entertainment, a Wi-Fi experience at home with a better coverage. So I think that's a follow-through upside to that later in terms of lower churn from the higher stickiness. I think that's something I'd just like to add to what -- in addition to what Razidan had mentioned. You had also asked about the customer projects that we saw. In Q4, that is a seasonality, particularly from the public sector. We know how the budgeting is at the public sector. If you don't use that -- you finish it, then it potentially could be reduced the following year. One of the -- yes, it is at a lower margin, as mentioned by Razidan. But one of the value programs that we have set up is to also look at the cost of that delivery, right? So it's to that level of granularity now that we are managing beyond whatever that we have delivered before in terms of our cost management program. Always keeping an eye on the customer project cost over revenue, how do we reduce that. And some of that, that we are starting to see traction is rather than outsourcing that delivery is to in-source it, particularly from our IT division themselves doing it. And we're talking about this cost, it's not just about the big-ticket cost item. These are the ones that -- these are the level of granularity that Razidan and I are scrutinizing. I do, in some ways, pity our C-suites as well, right? But both of us, Razidan, we get in that mode, right, to monitor. And on that CapEx to revenue, also you asked, it's also the efficiency. Part of what we are driving beyond just in terms of the quantity of that rollout but also the cost of that rollout. Cost -- unit cost per rollout is something that I'm also continuously reviewing and challenging the network team as well as the procurement team. So there are embedded efficiencies in there, to your question just now.

And Foong, I think we are looking at sweating our existing investments in CapEx. That's another point. And moving forward, we have been -- over the past 1 year and also moving forward, we've been very, very strict on the CapEx investment, looking at the financial analysis of projects and so on. So if it doesn't pass a certain threshold, it's no-go. Between I and Imri, it's totally no-go. And we're very, very strict on that now.

Okay. Understood. But can I just follow up with a few more questions? For Razidan, you mentioned the one-off A&P costs, preventive maintenance and also some provisions for staff benefits. Can you share with us what the ringgit amount is for these one-off costs in the fourth quarter? That's question one. Secondly, I wanted to ask about -- okay. So you mentioned about the efficiency, right, and also the sweating of assets. That's why your CapEx to sales is not like ballooning up, even though you're accelerating your homes passed. So is it also fair to assume that we should not be expecting, say, CapEx to go up in FY '22? Instead, it should still be around 14% to 18%, I mean, ballpark directionally? And thirdly, on the Capex, I want to know what is included in your CapEx. How many additional fiber premises passed are you factoring in? And any investments to expand your data center facilities included in that CapEx guidance?