Teradata Corporation (TDC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. Well, my name is Richard Poland. I'm on the software team here at Wells Fargo, and I'm delighted to have with me here today, Claire, the CFO of Teradata.

And I guess a good place to start is for those maybe who aren't familiar, can we just start with a little bit of background about the company, and a bit on just kind of the transition that the company has been going through over the past couple of years.

Yes, absolutely. Yes, for those that maybe don't know Teradata as well. We've been on a kind of transition transformation journey over the last 3 to 4 years. Clearly, we're very well known from a data and analytic standpoint on-premise. And when the new CEO came on board just over 4 years ago, clearly, the opportunity was to be able to leverage that history, that technology, that performance at scale that we had on-premise and to take it to the cloud. And so we weren't known for being in the cloud, we didn't have a cloud product out there. So that was the first thing that we did. We launched our VantageCloud Enterprise product and we since then multiple, I would say, announcements and product launches with regards to a cloud native product. We've been talking about OTS recently. We've been talking about gen AI. We've just been announced, for example, in the emerging gen AI Gartner leading quadrant as a market leader, up above some of our key competitors like Databricks and Snowflake. So I think it just goes to show the focus really has been on the innovation piece, on that technology advancement piece. And I think we have always known as being very reliable, high performance, but maybe I would say, more of a legacy. And so we've been working through that transformation to really focus on the innovation and to show our existing customers but also new customers, the opportunities that we can bring from a data and analytics standpoint. So we've always led with technology. We've just made an announcement that we are appointing a new Chief Technology Officer in the name of Louis Landry. He's been with the company many years, very, very technical. And he's been behind many of the product launches that we've had over the last few years, including, for example, AI Unlimited, which we launched last year. So that also is exciting because he's been obviously elevated to report to the CEO moving forward. And so more and more opportunity to leverage that technology. So yes, leading with the product, leading with innovation, which I think is really, really important. However, we have made a lot of other changes. We've changed, even just recently, how we structure our go-to-market organization, we have been changing how we support our customers from a customer health and success, made a lot of changes in the last 12 months or so, investing in those areas to help us have that closer relationship, make sure that we're being effective and efficient across the organization. So a lot of kind of, I would say, cultural and operating changes as well as the large strategic technology innovations as well.

Great. So I'm sure we'll double click on a lot of those things.

I'm sure we will.

So I guess let's just start off with talking a little bit about the cloud transformation journey. I think it's about 38% of the ARR last quarter. It's been growing at a nice clip. Can we just kind of talk a little bit about that journey you're on, maybe what inning we're in? And I guess, just some of the underpinnings of kind of how transition with the customer goes and just kind of any insight around that transformation period.

Yes, absolutely. I mean, as I mentioned, I mean, 4 years ago, we hardly have any of our business in the cloud. And to your point now, we're approaching approximately 40% of our business being in cloud over $0.5 billion. So we've come a long way from a cloud journey standpoint. And I think that goes to show the strength that we have with our existing customers, the opportunities that they see with us and that continues to grow. We're predicting in the 20% range in terms of growth this year, for example. So it's still growing very strongly. And the opportunity for us is the fact that we are truly hybrid. So we don't -- we're not forcing people to go to the cloud. We don't only offer a cloud. We can offer on-premise, we can offer cloud or we can offer true hybrid. And I think that's a competitive advantage for us because there are not many companies out there that they're either cloud or they're on-premise, but to have a true hybrid opportunity, it is very easy for our customers to have the right balance and approach with us as we move forward. And I think that's our opportunity. So customers can migrate with us to the cloud. We're very, I'd say, low cost, low risk, very easy to migrate with Teradata on to the cloud. Once obviously, you've got the planning and preparation in place, it can happen over a weekend. You don't have -- have hardly any downtime. And I think, again, existing customers, customers that have migrated with us at cloud are often very surprised how easy it is and how well it goes. And then once they're in the cloud, they kind of, I think, assume that the performance may not be as good as on-premise, and I think they get surprised by that as well because the performance is up there. And that's what we've been focused on in terms of our product is ensuring that we can offer the same level of performance, the same performance at scale, the same, I would say, very competitive cost per query, make sure that we can consistently offer that across all of our hybrid solutions. I think the other thing to bear in mind as we look to increase the number of our customers and our ARR that's in the cloud, there's multiple opportunities for us. So what we often see when customers migrate, at the point of migration, we see an uplift. So approximately, we see it like 120%, I would say, the amount of business with us once they move to the cloud, and that's kind of an expansion at the point of migration. So that's an opportunity with us. And then once they've been with us for 12 months, we also then continue to see expansion as well. And our trailing 12-month net expansion rate is currently running at 120%. So that's where our customers have been with us for over 12 months. So you've kind of seen multiple opportunities for expansion. And so that's why it's good for Teradata to increase the amount of business in the cloud to have that higher mix in the cloud, but it is important that we do it with our customers on their time scale. And if they want to have a hybrid solution that works for us as well.

Great. And I guess, just kind of as a follow-up there. When we think about kind of innovating across both hybrid or both on-premise and cloud products, how do you guys kind of balance like putting innovation to, I guess, 2 separate platforms in a way and any context you could give just around like are there any areas left on the cloud products where you think the on-premise product has it, but we need to add that? Or anything vice versa that you'd kind of point out there?

Yes. What I would say is -- so I think as we were shifting the strategy and I said the transformation to the cloud, we pivoted more of our R&D to cloud because we needed to catch up, we needed to create a cloud-native product. What we're seeing now, though, I would say at this point in our journey, is a lot of demand for having to your point, the same capabilities, both in the cloud and on-premise. So whether we're investing in AI on-prem, we have a lot of the AI capabilities across both products, and it's really important to be able to offer both. So we're now -- I would say, we're still very much focused on innovating in the cloud, but it's important for those customers that do want to stay on-premise or do want to have that hybrid solution, they don't feel that they're not getting that innovation in the cloud. We have many very large financial services companies with us, and some of them are all into the cloud and want to move everything to the cloud. Some want to have hybrid and some are still planning to stay the majority on-premise. And so therefore, it's really important from an R&D standpoint that we're able to offer, I would say, consistent performance, consistent analytics, AI capabilities on both. So that's what we're focused on now. I think there are opportunities, however, as you look to the cloud, whether you look at how companies use generative AI, how do you make it easy for new customers to come on to Teradata? You can leverage AI to be able to make that journey easier. So that's something we've been investing in. I think user interface, the ease of use at Teradata historically hasn't been our strength compared to some of our competitors. So we've been investing and innovating in that area. And now we're leveraging whether it's generative AI or, I would say, non-generative AI, just normal AI and ML to really enhance that user interface and experience. I think other things that clearly, everyone is talking about like OTFs, things like that are obviously available in the cloud, and that's been some of our recent announcements. And I think for Teradata, OTF, it's all about the compute. They remove the storage and it's all about the compute. And if you focus on large performance at scale. If you look at where we differentiate ourselves for large enterprises, it's in a compute area. We can do it more efficiently. We can do it more performance, we can do it at lower cost. So I think we see that as an opportunity for us as our customers start looking at the strategy, they start looking at the OTF opportunity ahead of them. We see that kind of a TAM expansion opportunity for us over the medium term because we have that differentiation in the compute area.

Okay. Great. That's very helpful. And one piece that I wanted to talk a little bit about is just on macro. So I think in the software environment, it's been a choppier macro over the last couple of years. I think particularly last quarter, you called out on the large transformative deal side, a little bit of breaking those deals apart into smaller pieces. I guess can you kind of give additional context around what transpired in the quarter there with the large deals and just kind of where we are in the macro environment?

Yes, absolutely. Yes. And our last quarter earnings, we did update our outlook as a result of more stage migration. So I would say, traditionally and what we've seen over the past 3 years, a lot of our large enterprises kind of -- have kind of decided to do a kind of onetime large deal with us with regard to migrations. And what we're now starting to see actually is they're breaking that up into multiple deals over time. And I think interestingly, and we saw it in our outlook, although the cloud numbers change, the total ARR number didn't change. So that's a good sign. And that's the advantage of being hybrid. So okay, they may not want to move as much of their business to the cloud in the short term with the fact that the total ARR remained unchanged, it shows that they're still committed to Teradata. They're just balancing that hybrid opportunity that we're offering. And what we're seeing is they're still wanting to move over time, but rather than it being maybe a kind of a 1 large 8-figure deal is going to -- it's being broken up into smaller 7-figure deals, for example. And I think some of the opportunities for our customers to do that is they can probably move quicker to migrate that smaller number of workloads. And once they're in the cloud, it's very easy for them -- for us to do additional migrations or additional expansions. The contract's been done, the technology and the migration process has been set up. They've done -- they've done one -- once, they've done it once, and they realized that the performance is there and there's no risk and the migration happens smoothly. We then expect them to say, okay, let's keep moving forward, depending on how much ultimately they want in the cloud. As I mentioned, some of our customers are very much focused on moving everything to the cloud. Some of them want to just focus on those workloads where they really need that scale up, scale out capability and others are kind of saying, actually some of it will still remain on-prem because it's fairly stable workloads. And we don't need to maybe invest resources to migrate it to the cloud just for the sake of being in the cloud.

Okay. Great. And then I guess on that front in the context of just kind of the $1 billion ARR target for the cloud business. I guess what would you -- if you had to distill like these are the key catalysts to get us there, the key drivers to get us to that path to $1 billion. Yes, just what would those drivers be? And just kind of how do you think about that path going forward?

I would say, I think what gives us the confidence to ultimately increase from where we are today, ultimately to the $1 billion is very consistent with what we've seen thus far, how we got to the over $0.5 billion so far. And it's a combination mainly of migrations and then expansion either at the point of migration or expansion after they've been in the cloud with us over time. And we still have a very large, I would say, installed base on-premise. So still a big opportunity there for further migrations. And if we look across our top 10 -- top 20 largest customers, the amount of growth that we see from those customers is continuing to increase. And I think that's an opportunity. So I think, yes, migrations and expansions and those expansions come at the point of migration and over time, is the probably biggest opportunity. Now one of the areas where we do anticipate an improvement and we do anticipate a contribution, new logos. However, we always know that they're going to start smaller. So although they are a contribution to ultimately getting to the $1 billion, where it's a much smaller contributing amount than migrations and expansions.

Okay. Great. And that kind of segues well into the next question, which is when we think about the NRR of those maybe more mature cloud customers or the customers that may be started only on cloud, how do we think about just kind of the expansion rates that you're seeing there relative to some of the transitioning customer expansion rate.

Yes, absolutely. And interestingly, it's fairly stable. So as I mentioned, at the point of migration, we tend to see 120% as compared to -- 120%, you see a 20% uplift at the point of migration. And then you look at our trailing 12 months net expansion rate. It's also around 120%. So it's kind of like kind of consistent amount over time. Now obviously, you have ups and downs with cohorts. And we just saw, for example, our trailing 12-month net retention rate, net expansion rate dropped slightly by a few points, and that was because in Europe and in health care, we had some very large expansions, large deal expansions that had elevated that number for the last 12 months and that were falling off. There's always a cohort, there's always kind of pluses and minuses, especially if there's a large 8-figure expansion deal, obviously, uplift that net expansion rate. But interestingly, as you look on average. And there's one quarter to the next, it can be up or down. If you look on average, whether it's expansion at the point of migration or expansion over time, we're around that approximately 120%. And we'll expect it to be a range around that. So historically, we've seen a net expansion rate, for example, of 117%. Other times, we've seen it at 123%, but with 120% being kind of like the average. So that's how we're kind of thinking about it, but there will be kind of a range as we look forward.

Okay. Great. That's super helpful context. When we think about the context of some of those large deals being broken up in stages, how does that kind of play into the, I guess, more near-term retention rates? And just kind of anything else to call out with. You mentioned health care. Is there anything there that's kind of you've seen stabilize? Or how do we think about it?

Yes, absolutely. So I mean, it's interesting to see that dynamic especially like, for example, in the current quarter, there are certain indices that are kind of fairly bullish, I would say, coming into Q4. We know financial services probably being one of them. There's a lot of financial services deals in our pipeline right now, and you'd kind of anticipate a lot of that closing and then there's others maybe in the health care space where there's a lot of deals in the pipeline, but the timing of those deals can change. I mean we just saw, for example, in Q4 -- at the beginning of Q4, we closed a large health care deal. Honestly, we were expecting that to close in Q3 and earlier in Q2 and end up closing in Q4. So I think in health care, things -- they're still closing. The total ARR commitment is still there, but maybe the elongation, and we've talked about the elongation is happening in those industries. I would say in financial services, though, that's kind of an area where potentially there's an opportunity for upside because there seems to be a lot of traction in those areas. So it is very geographical. It is very, I would say, industry-driven. And that's the advantage of being across multiple industries and a global company. We should be able to manage that as we exit '24 and into '25. Just specifically on retention rates, though, I think it is important to say, in 2024, we have seen our retention rate, if we look at our total business and particularly on-premise, we have actually seen our retention rates lower. And we were expecting that coming into 2024. And I think it's really important maybe to highlight the fact that what we anticipated to happen during '24, i.e., the retention rates to improve in the second half versus the first half is materializing and that we expect that improvement to continue into 2025. So we're really -- we're still expecting 2025 to see an improved retention rate compared to '24. So I think that's really important as well. We did have some large on-prem erosions happened at the beginning of 2024, which we see as an outlier. And I think that consistency in the fact that, that level of retention rate is improving, and we continue to expect it to improve, and we're not seeing a lot of volatility when you look at churn and [ erosion ], I think that's a real positive sign for Teradata because we've had some volatility this year. And so I think coming to the end of that, it's going to be very helpful for us as a company, but also from an investor standpoint.

Great. Okay. I want to change gears a little bit here. Talk a little bit about generative AI. I think you got 2 years ago about this time frame, ChatGPT picked the world by storm. It's all everyone talks about now. How should we think about Teradata's positioning in terms of generative AI and we'll start there and then a couple of followups.

Yes. No, I think there's several opportunities. So I think -- I would say the biggest one that we have been able to capitalize, the conversations that we're having with our customers is to really get the benefit of generative AI, you really need to have good quality data, large amounts of data and control over that data. And I think that's -- that completely plays in Teradata's workspace in the sense of being able to manage and have -- understand where your data comes from, what data is being used in generative AI, being able to efficiently and I would say, not do high cost to be able to manage those large amounts of data and the data and analytics around it. So I think the first biggest opportunity for us is just having that performance at scale, being able to manage large amounts of data. That's where we came from on-premise. That's what we've driven in our VantageCloud products, and I think is a huge differentiator for us. So I think, first of all, just the huge amounts of data needed to really drive good generative AI is a big opportunity for us. I think there's other areas as well where we've been able to use generative AI to get data insights, use generative AI to write code and make it easier, I would say, from -- I would say, less technical people to use our products, for example, because you can write code using generative AI opportunities within our software. I think there's other things as well in the sense of, as you look at use cases, many different use cases, again, financial services or retail. There's so many different use cases out there that are either experimenting or actually implementing generative AI using Teradata as a backdrop. And I think our flexibility because we're open, we're connected whether you'll use -- we have a bring-your-own-model LLM approach, we're not restricting how our customers can use generative AI and can use Teradata to support their generative AI journeys. And I think that's really important. It doesn't matter which CSP you're looking at, doesn't matter whether you're on-prem, in the cloud, doesn't matter what large language models you're using, you can still use Teradata. And I think that flexibility and openness is really resonating with our customers. And again, as more and more of these programs initiatives are being implemented at customers, I think we feel like we have a strong strategic seat at the table to work with customers. And we are able to show references and show peer-to-peer references to show, I would say, new logos, new customers, the opportunities that they have with Teradata.

Great. And I think on the last call, there was a lot of mention about the generative AI innovation going into the platform. When we think about ClearScape, to bring your own LLMs. Is there anything in particular that gets you most excited about the AI opportunity? I know we talked a little bit about the workload there. But I guess from a product, future functionality standpoint, what gets you most excited?

Yes. I think for me, it is that ease of use and being able to go beyond the technology team, go beyond the IT team, really get to the functional users. I mean, I'm a huge user in the finance organization of Teradata and a lot of companies use it for the finance. So just to be really able to not just to be doing, I would say, the basic operational roles, but to have that kind of insights into the data to -- for me, for example, and my team to be able to use generative AI over time to be able to access that data, to be able to run scenarios and things like that. So I think really just being able to capture everyday users to be able to use generative AI to access the huge amounts of data that we have embedded into the Teradata ecosystem, I think, is a huge unlock for us as a company, for our customers. And I think we're just starting that journey, to be honest. And so I think that's a future opportunity because I think if you look at how the data is being used, whether it's airlines, whether it's health care, whether it's financial services, whether it's companies like Teradata that just have a lot of data, I think most people would say, most companies are not leveraging the full benefits of the amount of data that they have. And so if we can unlock that, and use our product's capabilities with generative AI, ClearScape Analytics like things, we can really unlock that access everyday users, the data that they have in a real simple, easy way, I think it's a huge opportunity. And that's what we've been working on, and that's what some of the product initiatives are driving.

That makes sense. I guess when we think about, that's starting to show up in numbers. I think a lot of the analyst community is always trying to figure out when is all of the generative AI revenue going to start to flow in. And so I guess, I know it's probably hard to distill what's an AI workload versus -- yes. So I guess like any context, like do you get the feel that customers are starting to use some of those heavier compute workloads and you're seeing that show up more. Is there any thing that you're hearing from your customer competition?

Yes. I think one of the things that we talked about at our last earnings is that at least 20%, and it is sometimes difficult to track exactly what's being AI-driven versus what's just AI integrated. But what we said at our last earnings was at least 20% of our customer conversations, our pipeline are AI-led type conversations. And I think that has significantly increased over the last year and I think will continue to increase. And so I think that's a good time. Now obviously, that was talking about pipeline so you obviously got to look at conversion rates over time as well. And Q4 is a big growth quarter for us here at Teradata. So it will be interesting to see how many of those have converted versus just being in the pipeline. But I think the fact that 20% -- at least 20% of our pipeline conversations are AI-led conversations and that significantly increased from historical data and looks like it will continue to increase. It, again, shows the trend, it shows the opportunity as we look forward.

Okay. Great. Now I want to turn over to the profitability a little bit and margins. We've talked a lot about the innovation side. We've talked a lot about the hybrid cloud strategy, how do you kind of factor in the balance of margin expansion and growth when you have kind of exciting opportunities in front of you.

Yes. And we are very much focused on strong governance around return on investment so whether when we look at our capital allocation strategy, for example, whether it's returning capital back to shareholders through the form of share repurchase, whether it's reinvesting back into R&D, sales and marketing, for example, I think the most important thing is focused on the return on investment. We have just recently done a restructuring, taking out costs. However, we are taking out costs, and some of that will drop to the bottom line and help us from an operating margin standpoint, but we also plan to reinvest that. And I think it is really important that we are able to invest some of those funds back into R&D, back into sales and marketing. But it's important that we're efficient. We did just did a big go-to-market reorganization, for example. And although the total cost has come down, what we've done is actually remove management layers. We had a regional management layer, and we've taken out that regional management layer. So actually, although the sales costs maybe have come down, it doesn't mean that we have any less time with our customers. We actually think it's just made us more efficient, it made us closer to the customers. So I think there's always opportunities like that, where there are still rooms for further efficiencies, further improvement. But then there's other areas that we're investing. So we're investing in a new organization globally to support the financial services industry, for example, to globally support new logos so that we can leverage across the different industries and across the different geographies. So where are reinvesting in certain areas, but at the same time, there's still opportunities to kind of be efficient. And I think we're ensuring that we have that balance of returning back to shareholders being very disciplined around that approach. We are focused on improving our operating margins, continue to improve it. We anticipate our operating margins to increase but not so, I would say, dramatically that we can't reinvest back into the business to be able to make investments and keep that innovation going.

Okay. Great. You mentioned the go-to-market aspect of things. Just want to understand, I guess from -- you talked about wanting to get the execution input there. And you mentioned sales efficiency side, taking out that layer. I guess when we think about like the stage in terms of that starting to bear fruit, kind of where are we at today? And how do we think about that heading into next year?

Yes, absolutely. So I think 2024 was the -- I would say, the reorganization year. We had a new CRO, Chief Revenue Officer, come in at the middle of the year. He's obviously done and led the reorganization. So I'd say we're now in a stable position to be able to benefit that as we exit '24 going into 2025. We weren't anticipating a big, I would say, a short-term benefit in '24. It's definitely more of an investment for 2025. The other areas that we've -- not just in sales, but in customer health, for example, customer success. We've also reorganized in that. So we have a global approach in terms of whether we have early warnings signals, the kind of information and data that we have about our customers to help that kind of predictability to help us as we look out into 2025. So I think we're starting to see the benefits of that now. But I think really in terms of when do you actually see the return, it will be more of a 2025 benefit. But we can see it from an operational standpoint. We can see the improvement happening. You can see the benefits from an operational standpoint. But I think in terms of how that results into growth opportunity. I think it was more of a 2025 play and that was expected.

Okay. Great. And then I guess 1 more on the margin side of things. You talked a lot about generative AI from the standpoint of a product and driving workloads and ultimately, revenue and bookings. But on the margin side, I could imagine that with cogeneration tools, there's a lot of ways that you can kind of infuse it into the R&D organization, customer support use cases. I guess, internally, what use cases are you looking at for potentially improving some of the efficiency or productivity at the organization.

All of the above, I would say. So customer support, finance, even investor relations, product [indiscernible] point writing code, et cetera. So yes, we have access to a number of different generative AI tools. Some of it is leveraging our own opportunities. So in the finance team, I'm leveraging it, the Teradata software and capabilities. But yes, whether it's customer support, whether it's customer success and customer health, we're using generative AI there, we're definitely using it in terms of engineering, product standpoint and we're using it more out generally to try and help people be more efficient. So I also run the IT organization. And so we are rolling out kind of generative AI opportunities and tracking how it's being used, what do we believe the return on that investment is. And it's very clear that certain people in certain roles can get a big efficiency improvement, a big efficiency bump if they can leverage generative AI. So I mean it's still exploratory, but I think in all of those case studies I mentioned, it's areas which I think most companies are looking at now. Even in the legal department, they're using a generative AI tool to help them from a contract and data standpoint, in terms and conditions. There's so many use cases out there that we can leverage. And I think that will become more and more of an opportunity for us. And that's why we will help us from an operating margin expansion standpoint because as we move to total ARR growth in 2025, we don't need to increase the cost at the same rate. So that will help us from an operating margin standpoint and that total ARR growth ultimately turns into revenue growth over time.

Okay. Great. We have a few more minutes here, so I want to give an opportunity to open up to the community with us in the room. Is there anyone that has any questions.

[indiscernible].

Yes. So the question was about the competitive and thanks for the question. I'm happy to answer that. I think one of the things I'm very optimistic about is the envision piece. And like I mentioned, Gartner has put us in -- above Snowflake and Databricks actually in the emerging gen AI quadrant, and we're in the leader quadrant there. So I think an opportunity for us and I would say that's improving with every year, been on a journey, been on a transformation. And I think 2024 with the amount of product innovations that we've announced, we are stepping up our game and continuing to improve from a competitive innovation standpoint. So I think that's really helpful. The other thing that we -- and we talked about actually at our last earnings, a couple of use cases for example, where even against Databricks, for example, we have a use case in a financial service industry where workloads were running in Databricks versus workloads running in Teradata, and we were able to run them much faster and at a much lower cost. And again, so leveraging will need it in generative AI, large amounts of data performance at scale. So we're getting more and more of those kind of use cases. And I think the more we can tell that story, the more we can show our customers, what other customers are doing like peer-to-peer references, I think that is an opportunity for us. And I think that's what we need to work on is getting the use cases out there, getting that information out, whether it's existing customers or new customers. And that's why the reorganization from a go-to-market standpoint, from a customer success standpoint, all of that will help us as well as being able to show the use cases. I think one of the differences we see between us and I would say the pure cloud native players is they're much more focused and reliant on consumption. Our customers tend to have a fixed amount of consumption and then only leverage what they need over and above that. So our growth rates, I would say, less impacted by movement in consumption, which is good on the downside, but potentially you don't see as much of an uplift on -- in the short term on the upside. So -- but that's kind of, I would say, 1 of the differences, which is why potentially you see different dynamics of our performance from one course to the next compared to our competitors. And I think that will change over time as more of our businesses is moved to our lake cloud-native product that consumption will start to become a bigger portion. So that gives us an opportunity as well.

All right. Great. I think we're about up on time here, but I wanted to give you an opportunity. Anything else that you want to leave us with today?

No, I think just to summarize some of the key trends we're seeing. I've talked a lot about innovation as a big focus for us, like leading with strong -- industry-leading technology especially in the AI/ML space, both hybrid, on-premise and in the cloud. We are committed to returning to total ARR growth next year. And we are continuing to see the retention rates improve in the second half of this year and expecting them to remain at that improved level as we move out to 2025. So there's a lot to be excited about. And we're making a lot of operational and execution improvements at Teradata to really get that kind of predictability as we look out into the future.

Well, on that note, thank you, Claire, for joining us. It was wonderful to have you.

Thank you, Richard. My pleasure.