The Tata Power Company Limited (500400) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Tata Power Q3 FY '21 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. Today, we have Dr. Praveer Sinha, CEO and Managing Director, Tata Power; and Mr. Ramesh Subramanyam, CFO, Tata Power, with us on the call. I now hand the conference over to Dr. Praveer Sinha from Tata Power. Thank you, and over to you, Dr. Sinha.

Thank you. And good evening, everyone, and welcome to the earnings call of Tata Power for Q3 results. I have with me Mr. Ramesh Subramanyam, CFO; Mr. Anand Agarwal, Financial Controller; Mr. Kasturi, Chief of Investment Relations; and Mr. Rahul Shah; and Jyoti Bansal and the other colleagues are here. We would like to, first of all, thank all of you for the continued support during the turbulent times and helping the company with valuable feedback. We did announce our growth strategy that focused upon improvement in returns for the stakeholders. As we had laid out in our last analyst week, the company has continued strongly to execute various strategic plans and in this quarter, we delivered on many of these action plans. Since our last results, we have had several events, which reinforces our ability to realize the long-term company strategy. Tata Power was awarded 2 additional distribution licenses in Odisha, SOUTHCO and WESCO, we -- which we took over from 1st January 2021. Since then, we have also been awarded the letter of intent for the last distribution license in Odisha, the NESCO, and we are working on its takeover process. With these licenses, Tata Power has grown from a consumer base of 2.7 million to about 12 million in less than a year's time. The proposed budget provision to allow multiple discoms in a circle is a welcome move and which will allow and give the opportunity for the company to expand its state-of-the-art distribution processes and practices to other regions and facilitate transition to healthy distribution operations. During this quarter, the completion of defense sale transaction took place at a value of INR 1,076 crores, and Tata Power has received cash of INR 539 crores net of the debt of SED. Similarly, in this quarter, our solar EPC order book continued to grow and at the end of Q3 was around INR 8,700 crores. In addition, we have won orders worth INR 1,869 crores in January itself, and our order book at present is more than INR 10,000 crores. Majority of the work for the 300-megawatt expansion of manufacturing line at Bangalore has been completed, and we expect to open this plant by end of this month. Our manufacturing capacity for both cell and modules will double to nearly 600 megawatts each. Our renewable development portfolio won a bid of 110 megawatt solar in January. With another 370 megawatt of project awaiting letter of award, our total renewable portfolio will grow to around 4.4 gigawatt. In CGPL, in this quarter, we completed the repayment of INR 4,150 crores of term loans, completing the financial restructuring of CGPL. This has helped us in reducing the finance cost as well as dependence on the parent company. With the continued steady performance across all businesses, we have started seeing the impact of these strategic plans with reduction in Mundra losses over a period of time and significant reduction in interest cost backed by several of the deleveraging measures, which have been taken by us in this year. We have seen a sharp recovery in demand with the sales in our distribution circles at Delhi, Ajmer and Mumbai, and we are almost close to the pre-COVID levels. Collections have improved with distribution overdues reducing over a period of time, with our collections becoming nearly 100% not only in our existing distribution license areas, but also in Odisha. CGPL under-recovery has reduced sharply with falling coal prices, better coal sourcing and logistic management. The fuel FOB under-recovery has reduced from INR 0.40 in Q3 FY '20 to only INR 0.32 in this quarter. CGPL and coal-related business generated a combined profit of INR 16 crore despite the fall in FOB prices of coal companies, coupled with 1x penalty of INR 31 crores in KPC and write-off of the project expenditure relating to the Russian coal mines of INR 29 crores. We have now 2 blocks -- 2 back-to-back quarters of profit in this cluster. With the proposed merger with Tata Power, CGPL issues will be fully contained and it will help us to make our -- all our existing businesses self-sustainable. We continued to improve the availability across our renewable assets with several operational initiatives, and this is reflected in steady performance across the assets. Our overdues from discoms have consistently come down, thanks to the efforts of government of India for the large 1.2 lakh crore payment that has been released to various discoms. The increased solar EPC order book has led to Tata Power Solar total revenue in the quarter increasing from INR 495 crores last year to INR 923 crores in this year. However, the execution in this quarter was little less than planned for the activities at site. And this is expected to be ramped up in the coming quarters. The current order book is likely to be executed in the next 12 to 18 months. With all these improvements, we have clocked a 33% growth in PAT before exceptional items to INR 346 crores compared to PAT of INR 260 crores last year. The company has now clocked an increase of around 10% reported PAT on year-on-year basis for the last 5 quarters. The consolidated revenue stood at INR 7,740 crores, compared to INR 7,171 crores in the previous year, mainly driven by TPCODL acquisition in Odisha and increased order execution in large-scale EPC rooftop and solar pump business. The consolidated EBITDA has stayed steady with INR 1,997 crores generated in this quarter, up by 1% compared to last year driven by lower under-recovery of CGPL and a higher solar EPC business. Despite lower coal profits, underlying business EBITDA remained steady at around INR 2,149 crores in this quarter. Moving on to the balance sheet and the progress on deleveraging. We completed the defense sale transaction in this quarter using the proceeds from the deleveraging actions and the pref equity issue. Net external debt has been reduced by more than INR 7,500 crores over the last 1 year to INR 36,000 crore level, which has helped us to secure rating upgrade by CRISIL from AA negative to AA stable and by ICRA from AA negative to AA positive. Using the better credit ratings and lower interest rate regime, the company has refinanced few loans at much lower rates, such as the recent issuance of INR 1,000 crore 3 years NCD at 6% interest rate. This revised debt profile is helping us to reduce our average interest cost to around 7.8% in this quarter compared to 8.6% last year. Our debt-to-equity ratio has sharply reduced to 1.49 from 2.12 same time last year. Similarly, net debt to underlying EBITDA has improved to 4.11x in this quarter. Over the last 6 months, we have been in discussions on the InvIT transaction, and it has progressed very well, and we are close to finalization of the binding agreement. We are very happy with the progress achieved till date on this transaction. And given the size and complexity of the portfolio and expected -- we expect to approach the Board for approval before the end of this month. In Prayagraj, we continued to see very strong operational performance, achieving a 92% availability in this quarter. Tata Power is also providing the O&M services, which has led to the improvement in the Prayagraj plant operations. We have also continued to see meaningful progress in Odisha discom, which operates in the erstwhile CESU area, and we have seen significant improvement in operational and financial parameters to reach our targeted trajectories. We have been able to reduce the trippings at 33 kV level by more than 70% while replacing almost 1.2 lakh meters till end December. At the same time, we are working on improving the customer experience with better customer care centers -- call centers and better customer relationship management solutions and also starting many initiatives to reduce the customer complaints on payments and billing. In our consumer-oriented business, we won contract to provide charging infrastructure for e-buses in Ahmedabad and BEST buses in Mumbai. Our solar pump business did installation of nearly 2,750 pumps this quarter, recording its largest quarterly revenue. Our rooftop solar business continues to emerge from the COVID-19 induced slowdown, and we have seen an uptick in the orders. And with order book for rooftop solar as of end December stands at nearly INR 600 crores. Our microgrid business has also seen huge progress with our 100th microgrid commissioned in UP. We are already in the process of installing another 28 microgrids, and another 62 are under advanced stage of installation. In this quarter, we also commissioned 2 biogas plants and thereby taking efforts to make these microgrids 100% on renewable power. The coming quarters will be action-packed for the company, and we look forward for your continued support. My colleague and I am available now to take the questions. I now hand over the call to Faizan for question and answers.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Swarnim Maheshwari from Edelweiss Securities.

Sir, congratulations for a good quarter. And I had couple of questions, sir. Sir, the first question is, actually, if you look at on your CESU business, so if you can tell us what was the AT&C loss at the end of Q3? And also with respect to CESU, what were the losses at the PAT level, which is actually implied in your consolidated numbers?

For CESU, the PAT numbers included in the consolidated number is INR 34 crores for the quarter.

Okay.

What was your other question? AT&C loss?

Sir, AT&C loss.

We exited with -- YTD, we exited with 33.9%.

Sorry, 33.9%?

Yes.

Sir, if I recollect, at the end of Q2, the AT&C loss was at about 27.5% or 28-odd percent. So is it fair to say that in Q3, the AT&C loss has gone up?

No, no, no. Q2 and Q1 were higher than 33.9%. In fact, we are on a slope from -- Q2, we achieved 38.7% for the quarter. So when we exited with 33.9%, obviously, the actual would be much lower. We would have about 24%, 25% is the -- for the quarter performance, so to speak, to bring down the cumulative to 33.9%. So I don't know where was the gap in your numbers. You read something -- some different number, but maybe off-line, we could help you with that.

Sure, sure, sure. I'll just [ refresh ] that. Sir, second thing is, you -- we have mentioned that there is this ForEx loss in the solar business TPSL (sic) [ TPSSL. ] Now what is this loss pertaining to? Is there some sort of foreign loan over there? What is it?

No, no. This is by module. So for modules, you do the ForEx booking, so it's MTM impact.

So what is the quantum?

You know that 70% of the input cost is the imported module. I'd say -- quantum of the loss is about INR 18 crores.

It's about INR 18 crores during the quarter, okay.

It includes period beyond the quarter because when the -- depending on the valuation at the end of the -- MTM valuation at the end of the quarter, INR 18 crores is the impact. Some of it could recover also.

The next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital.

Sir, a few questions. The first is on the expected time line for announcement on the InvIT. When do you expect to close the InvIT? And the -- in megawatt terms, how much asset we are looking to hive off and the EBITDA of the assets and the life of the asset left? That is the first question.

So -- well, transaction close, there is time because there are a lot of steps. There are shareholder approvals, regulatory approvals, et cetera. The first thing, of course, is to have the basic structure agreed upon, so which is what we are -- just now Mr. Sinha mentioned, we are close to finalizing that, and we hope to announce that soon. And thereafter, of course, it will go through the regulatory approval process and shareholder approval process. And as long as your -- as far as your megawatt answer is concerned, we expect to put about 3.4 gigawatts in this whole mechanism. So our intent is to put all of our renewable assets, barring some which have to stay back due to some reasons. But otherwise, all the renewable assets will be transferred to the InvIT.

And out of which 3.4 gigawatts, how much is operational at this point of time, sir, 2.7 gigawatt, am I right?

Yes.

Understood, sir. Secondly, on the solar cells and modules business, we have commissioned a new capacity. So what are your aspirations in terms of solar cell and module manufacturing from medium-term point of view? And the order book, which you have is right now in the Tata Power Solar, is it safe to assume that this entire order would be executed in the next couple of years?

Yes, because these are all generally 18 to 24 months duration. And the solar, they will continuously being -- will be executed in the next 1 to 2 years.

And sir, what is your aspiration in terms of solar cell and module manufacturing? Do we have any plans to go to ingot, wafer? And do you want to increase this capacity? Is there something which [indiscernible]

So at present, we are also looking at how the appropriate environment for the solar manufacturing will shape up. And we are also looking forward to the support from the government on the various manufacturing-related incentives. And I think once an appropriate regime is there, then we would certainly look at that. Right now, there is no immediate plan in hand to move in that direction.

Last question, sir. How are you perceiving Mundra tariff resolution given that coal -- cost of the coal has again moved up and the CERC has -- is open for business?

Well, right now, CERC is not in the picture, as you know. First, it has to be approved by the state. And that approval process, I think we have informed in the past. There are some terms and conditions on which it has stuck, and we expect -- and unless those are resolved, it will be very difficult. It doesn't make sense for the company. So we will respond as and when those conditions are resolved.

The next question is from the line of Puneet from HSBC.

On the solar EPC business side, should one worry about the margins given that we've seen volatility in the module prices and all? Is that something that we were impacted with as well?

Well, when you are in this business, volatility is part of the game. So we do have plans how we normally even out these things because this things are happening, right? This is not new. Of course, after a long time, prices have begun to look up, but there are also expectations that this is a short-lived phenomenon. So -- but suffice to say that as a business, we will, of course, use all our tactics to ensure that we kind of time our entire management of the contracts in a way that we suffer the least. So...

And also many of the contracts are firm prices, and it is hedged. Also, the currency hedging is done. So to that extent, we do get insulated from these market forces.

But I presume most of your contracts could have a module element also into it. And would there be a way to go back to the customer and ask for a commensurate higher price? Or is that not an option?

No, no, no. You cannot go back to the customer, but what one can do and what we normally do is also tie-up on back-to-back basis with suppliers from China and other locations. It's not only that everything comes from China, we also source it from some other countries also. And to a large extent, we are insulated from these market forces.

Okay. So you would have tied up mostly then, one needn't worry about that because we have 10 [indiscernible]

Yes. Absolutely right.

Okay. My second question is on CESU. What kind of trajectory should we look at? You are already down to 33.9%. What do you think would you be in FY '22 and '23? How should one think about this projection?

You've seen the trajectory, which is given. I think it has been shared with you in the presentation. The whole idea is that we should be better than that. And that is what we are currently planning to do, and we're on track.

Yes. And if you see, we started from a very high number. Because of COVID during the period, April, May, the AT&C loss went up to nearly 41%, 42%, which we have now brought it down. And going forward, we have shared with you that what is the fact. And the trajectory that we will have, and we are definitely expecting that it will be much better than what we are projecting.

My last question, the government has talked about an alternate discom. Is that something that you see could happen in immediate future? Or would there be a need for regulatory changes to take place?

So these types of changes, first of all, it has to be passed in the parliament. So the bill has been introduced, and we do not know how much time it will take, whether it will go to the select committee or it will get passed in the parliament itself. Secondly, the rules and regulations for the -- doing all this has to be clearly spelt out both by the central government and also the state regulator, but this will happen maybe in a year or 2 years' time. And this is a great opportunity for us because of the unique experience that we have in carrying out distribution services and customer service that we provide to our customers. So I think it's a good opportunity going forward, and we will try to extract the maximum benefit when it opens up.

And the states would also have to separately agree other than just center. Is the understanding correct?

Yes. It's a consultative process. Distribution of energy is a concurrent subject, and states have to be onboard as also the regulators.

The next question is from the line of Anupam Goswami from B&K Securities.

Sir, my first question is on CESU. We posted a profit of INR 34 crores. Sir, what led to this profit? I mean, to understand, have we breakeven already?

No, no, no. So there is a -- on the base equity, there is a ROE. That is point number one. Point number two is there are adjustments for the -- on a cumulative basis, the recoveries, et cetera, which are pending recoveries, et cetera, which have been getting late, the recoveries of old dues, there is an incentive for that. And also the recognition of the provisions for debtors, those are adjusted at every quarter end depending on the progress made. So this includes some amount of progress belonging to the past 6 months also, okay, apart from the regulated equity on the invested equity.

Okay. Got it, sir. And sir, my next question is on your Tata Power Solar. We have achieved a higher revenue, but our PAT has gone down. That is what you mentioned about MTM losses of INR 18 crores. Is that the reason?

Yes, yes, that is correct. That is correct.

Yes. That is because part of the execution could happen in this quarter, the balance execution will happen in the last quarter. And then the total PAT will be booked.

Okay. Okay. And sir, what is our ex-EPC revenue in Tata Power Solar?

What is it? What did you ask? Revenue of?

Ex-EPC.

So in this quarter, the INR 900 crores was the total turnover for the company, which is the EPC arm, of which EPC is INR 649 crores.

Okay. Okay. Got it, sir. Sir, my last question is on the Tata Power stand-alone. Sir, I see we have increased our short-term debt for that. What is the reason for increase in debt?

No. This is more -- now we are tactically planning to eventually come with a proper long-term versus short-term combination. Right now, due to the fact that in the last 4, 5 months, we raised capital, we sold assets, and now we have to plan to refinance and repay some of the debt. Therefore, in the coming months, you will see that a lot of these short-term debt will get slowly phased out into long-term debt. This has been something which is on our radar for the last 6 months. Even if you compare in March, the amount of short-term debt we carried versus what we carried in December, there is a marked decrease of about INR 3,000 crores.

The next question is from the line of [ Kirti Jain ] from Sundaram Mutual Fund.

Sir, my first question is with regard to the Gujarat solar policy which has come. How has been initial response, if you've got any, on that front? And then with regard to charging installations, like in next 12 to 15 months, what is the charging installations are we planning to achieve in the next 12 to 15 months' time, sir?

So based on the Gujarat policy, whereby they have said that they will sign up PPA with individual power-generating individuals, there has been a very good response from what we understand from Gujarat government. They've got nearly 5,000 applications of people who are interested. They are right now scrutinizing those applications. Many of the people who have applied are in touch with us because they want us to carry out the EPC work with them and also the O&M activities. So we are looking at a great opportunity over there to support the investors -- individual investors who would like to take up this type of generation program in Gujarat.

Sir, what about captive consumers, sir, like large industrial houses, chemical factories or the ceramic units? Are they also coming in to sign the PPAs or what -- or sign the agreement?

That is part of our risk of business, whereby we are tying up with them either on your EPC basis or group captive basis. So again, there has been very good orders that we have received in the last quarter, and we are seeing huge amount of traction in these types of industrial and commercial establishments who would like to go for rooftop solar solutions. And we are also now coming up with large initiatives and publicity campaign to reach out to many more consumers in different parts of the country to see that how the benefit of self-generation through rooftop can be provided to these consumers, and their electricity bill can come to that extent.

Sir, then on EV installation -- charging station installation, sir, what is the number we are targeting over the next 12 to 15 months?

So right now, we have nearly 300 public charging stations that we have set up, and we expect to complete this year by -- nearly 500 charging stations. And these are fast-charging stations in public locations. We also have done nearly 2,000 home chargers. And going forward, these numbers, I think, will be shared with you in terms of huge growth potential, and we will be playing a very, very important and critical role in providing these infrastructure throughout the country.

Okay. Sir, last question from my side. Sir, yesterday, one of the news I saw that the AP bidding happened, and at INR 2.48 also, we didn't win any project in the AP bidding. And second thing, NTPC is able to take our service and is able to supply at INR 2 whereas we are not participating in those solar tender. Any particular reason, sir, in those 2 aspects we didn't do, sir?

Yes. So first of all, about the AP, we found that the AP bidding is being done without consent from the regulator. And also the agency, which is doing the bidding is not authorized to carry out these sort of biddings. It has to be a distribution company, which has to do that. So that's why we felt that the whole process is not very transparently done, and we would not be in a position to bid in that. Secondly, as far as the competitive bidding came, we normally bid in all projects, and you have seen in many of the recent projects that we have bid and we have competitively won those projects. And we keep on assessing the market. And based on the opportunity and what sort of return realization that we expect, we normally bid and we win in those contracts.

Sir, in terms of the solar pumps, how has been the response? Or any numbers can you share on solar pump side, sir?

So this year, we have -- we shared with you that in last quarter, we implemented some 2,750 pumps, and we have a very good order book of solar pumps. This year, we have 7,500 numbers have been implemented, and we are expecting that in future, because of the huge push that government of India is giving under the KUSUM program, we'll be doing more number of solar pumps going forward. That's one of our growth businesses apart from rooftop solutions.

The next question is from the line of Rahul Modi from ICICI Securities.

And congratulations for good set of numbers. Sir, just wanted to take your view on the bidding landscape in the solar project, and we've seen a lot of hybrid projects are also coming up. So sir, what are the kind of bids that you are looking at in the next -- opportunities that are coming across on an annual basis realistically over the next couple of years?

See now what has happened is that in last 1 year because of COVID, not many projects have come up. And as you know that government of India has a plan that by December '22, 1,75,000 megawatt of renewables will come. We are still at 90,000. So there is a huge demand to catch up in next 1.5 years or little less than 2 years to meet the target of 1,75,000. We are seeing that many of the state governments as well as SECI and NTPC have plans to not only come up with just pure solar or pure wind project, but also hybrid projects where they will come along with storage or will also come with a combination of thermal projects. So we are looking at big opportunity. The second thing is that, again, the RPO obligation for states has still not been imposed. The new amendment to the Electricity Act is talking about enforcing the RPO obligation. We are still at about 10% of our total energy coming from renewable. If we have to become 20%, then the capacity addition has to be much larger than what it is today. So considering all these things, we do expect that there will be a lot of traction in coming months on not only pure renewable, but also hybrid projects.

Sure. Sir, just wanted your view on one thing. Like, recently, Gujarat went in for this -- Gujarat regulator asked discom to consider retendering. And it's a very peculiar situation that every 2 months bids are being called and prices are at least INR 0.20 lower than the previous bid. And ultimately, we are with the 20,000 megawatt of unsigned PPAs by various agencies. And then we are at a INR 2 tariff where, obviously, the participation is thin. So sir, what is your view as to how will this develop -- get resolved? Because at some price someone has to sign. So what's your view on this?

See, typically, these types of things do not happen. These are aberrations which happen. And this is for the first time that Gujarat regulator, instead of adopting the tariffs, has asked them to rebid again as the proposed amendment in the Electricity Act says that under 63, if there is a bidding done, the regulator has to adopt that tariff and it cannot reject whatever tariff has been determined through a bidding process. So I think both through the regulatory system as well as the amendment to the Act will push the regulators to comply with these normal bidding norms rather than making knee jerk decisions of modifying the bidding process.

Sure. Sir, now in terms of discoms, any discussions that you're having with the policymakers and the states? Any particular states who are looking to privatize discoms over the next 12 to 18 months, at least initiate any process in that regard?

See, we typically are in constant touch with various state governments and we share with them the opportunity to reduce losses, provide better reliability, better service to their consumers. So this is an ongoing process on a regular basis. And these decisions are taken by the government based on their desire to implement the reform process. The timing of it is determined by when they have elections and when the government would be in a position to take a hard decision. So this is something that on a constant basis we connect with all the state governments.

Okay. Sir, and no specific states which are currently being talked about or there are and -- but it's fluid?

It's very speculative at this stage. It's very difficult, it is at different levels and different stages of discussions. So very difficult to say at this stage.

Right. Sir, my last question is with regard to the revenue model of the EV charging ecosystem that we are developing, sir, how exactly does the entire scheme works in terms of our revenue model? Is it just a power sale? Or how does it work?

No, it's a combination of power sale, services and network. So there we charge for the network. So therefore, it's a combination of all 3, and plus, there will be some value-added services thrown in. So at this point, I think, we will not be able to share the full model because some of it is evolving. We are doing a lot of teething work in the market. And as we go along, lot of refinements will happen in this model.

Sir, will this be a licensed business? Or -- now, obviously, if the delicensing is passed, then it's passed. But typically, will it be a licensed...

No, there is no such sign. I think the government is doing this to encourage more and more penetration. And since many of the private sector players may not be clear about how it will move ahead, they are pushing a lot of government efforts also into this. But overall, it will be a -- to our -- to the best of our knowledge, it's all going to be open market because ultimately it's all about penetration. So everybody has to chip in there.

The next question is from the line of Aniket Mittal from Motilal Oswal.

Sir, few questions on the EPC front. Firstly, if I look at the EPC order book you provided on Slide #5 and if I adjust it for the in-house projects, there is a very large concentration that you have towards NTPC projects. So I just wanted a sense from a broader EPC market perspective, is there any reason for this? I mean, are there -- are the other RE developers sort of doing the EPC work in-house?

Yes. I think many of them are doing in-house.

Okay. Sir, just sort of sustainability perspective, would it be fair to assume that the sustainability of your order book would be dependent on these PFC products able to win awards and then contracted for EPC work?

Not necessarily because there would be new and newer players and many players would also change their preference to do it through outside contractors depending on the size, scale and their ability to execute. So therefore, we expect this market to continuously evolve. And as new players come in and new investors come in, they may like to actually go with established EPC players who would provide them a more assured EPC service. So this is going to be a growing market. It is not only dependent on PSUs.

Okay. Sure. And just one question on the solar rooftop front. Now I understand this is a very big segment for us where we're expecting strong growth to come in. But with the recent mandate for net metering restrictions, one, how do you see the market sort of going forward? And what sort of installations are you looking at from an FY '22 base?

See, the net metering concept was brought in when the cost of rooftop solar was INR 14, INR 15. And at that time, to induce people to go for rooftop solar, the net metering was brought in. Today, the cost of rooftop solar has come down drastically in the INR 4 range. So for consumers, whether they are industrial or commercial or even domestic, the arbitrage for generating on their own is much better. And they typically are now generating enough to meet their captive requirement and not for the purpose of giving it to the grid and getting the net metering benefit. So I think conceptually, the whole structure has changed. But otherwise, there is a huge demand that we see in the market because at the end of the day, today, industrial and commercial consumers end up paying about INR 9, INR 10. While if they do captive generation, it is about INR 4 to INR 5, and they will tremendously benefit if they go for rooftops.

Okay. Sir, but just to, let's say, get an idea from the next couple of years, because the problem is -- what's happened is based on the recent guidelines they've said that net metering will only be allowed for loads up to 10-kilowatt, right? And I think there's a reluctance for consumers to actually go on a gross metering basis. So from a next, let's say, 2-year perspective, what sort of installations do we see on the solar rooftop front?

Yes. There will be a lot of demand. The gross is something which has happened globally. Everywhere when there was a large penetration of rooftop solar, the gross metering has happened. So this is something which will transition over here. The net metering will have a sunset and we need to see that when exactly. Yes, but it will push up the prices a little bit. Market will readjust.