The Tata Power Company Limited (500400) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Tata Power Q1 FY '22 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note this conference is being recorded. Today, we have Dr. Praveer Sinha, CEO and MD, Tata Power; and Mr. Ramesh Subramanyam, CFO, Tata Power, with us on the call. I now hand the conference over to Dr. Praveer Sinha. Thank you. And over to you, Dr. Sinha?

Thank you, Vikram, and good evening to everyone, and thank you for joining us for the Q1 earnings call. I hope all of you are doing well and keeping safe and taking care of yourself. Today in the call, I have my colleague, Ramesh Subramanyam, CFO; Mr. Anand Agarwal, Financial Controller; Mr. Kasturi and Rahul Shah from Investor Relations; and a few more colleagues. And once again, thank you for joining for the call. As we come out of the second wave of the COVID, we would like to express our heartfelt condolences to all our fallen heroes and their families who continue to support us during this period. During these trying times, Tata Power had ramped up its COVID relief work, including providing hospitalization support, organizing camps, arranging oxygen as also providing all support during the medical emergencies. Tata Power also had a huge vaccination drive. And 90% of our employees, 23,000 employees, have been vaccinated for the first vaccine. The second vaccine, most of them will complete the 7 weeks' time in the month of August and will get completed. The second wave of COVID has been equally challenging for everyone as we went into another set of lockdowns and saw our businesses get marginally impacted, mainly with billing and collections dipping in distribution business as also in our other renewable business and generation business, has also impacted execution of some of our projects at locations, especially in the solar projects in remote locations. Despite all this, we ended the quarter on a high note as our revenues and profits went up significantly, with very good all-round operational performance. This was again possible because of the relentless work that all our employees, suppliers and all our stakeholders who provided us and supported us to run our businesses and operations properly. Our aspiration to build a very strong renewable focused future for the company has started showing results as we saw a very robust performance from our renewable business. With strong operations and impressive growth in various solar EPC businesses, the company achieved 87% growth in revenue and approximately 60% growth impact from renewable businesses on year -- 2-year basis. Coupled with very steady state operations of all our other assets and businesses as also the interest savings from debt repayments, we have achieved 75% growth in reported PAT, which stands at INR 466 crores as compared to INR 268 crores in the same quarter last year. This is the seventh consecutive quarter of delivering year-on-year profit growth. Our solar EPC business of Tata Power Solar continues to perform very strongly despite COVID-related constraints, tracking nearly 5x growth in quarterly revenue from INR 406 crores last year to INR 1,949 crores this year. This growth has been based with well-rounded performance from large-scale utility EPC, solar rooftop and solar pump segments. The large-scale utility EPC order book continues to grow, with orders worth INR 743 crores won in Q1, taking the total order book as on 30 June at INR 7,257 crores. Among various projects, we won 150-megawatt from NTPC valued at approximately INR 650 crores is also in the same. Also in July, we were successful in EPC tenders of around 800 megawatt, for which letter of awards are expected to come very soon. The pace of win reaffirms our position as a choice EPC partner for large solar developers. In some of the ongoing contracts, the module prices have increased, thereby putting pressure on the margins. However, the new contract factors the current prices, and therefore, margins are expected to improve going forward. On back of Tata brand and our extensive channel partner and marketing network, solar pumps business has done exceedingly well with the sales of 7,419 pumps, recording the highest ever quarterly sales. Our solar pump business is growing stronger day by day as we have become the largest player in pump business with total installation of close to 44,000 pumps till date. We have seen similar success from our rooftop business where we won orders of 148 megawatt worth INR 434 crores in Q1. our rooftop order book as on 30th June stands at 294 megawatt worth INR 720 crores. In addition, we have been in panel and won a contract from Kerala State Electricity Board for 84-megawatt rooftop solar project for domestical customers across all districts of Kerala in July. With this order of nearly INR 400 crores, our current order book for rooftop solar has gone above INR 1,000 crores. We also launched schemes in partnership with institutions like Bank of Baroda, HDFC Bank, SIDBI and Electronica financing to provide easy hassle-free financing for residential and MSME customers. On the execution side, Tata Power Solar has successfully completed the installation of many projects, including the 6-megawatt carport project in Tata Motors Chikhali plant in Pune, which is today's India's largest grid synchronized solar carport. This quarter, the generation from grid assets have improved significantly due to several preventive maintenance works carried out to resolve recurring issues. And as a result, we improved the availability of the plant -- of all the plants put together to 98.6% this quarter, the highest till date. Solar assets also operated at very high availability. However, nation was slightly impacted due to cyclonic activity in the region. Coming to our integrated CGPL and coal portfolio. International coal prices have touched new 10 years highs recently. As a result, we have reduced the supply of power from the units to contain the losses. As the tariff [ live ] unwinds, generation can be increased in subsequent quarters to meet the yearly obligation. On the other hand, due to the increased coal prices, the profits from the coal companies have increased significantly, resulting in the net profit growing from INR 21 crores last year to INR 148 crores on -- in this year. This was before the impact of obtain orders for change in law relief, which was awarded to CGPL in this quarter. We will do everything possible to contain the CGPL losses in the coming quarters. This quarter was also very important for us in Tata Power as we welcome customers and employees from the Northern Odisha distribution circle to the Tata Power family. On 1st April, Tata Power acquired 51% stake in TP Northern Odisha Distribution Limited and added 2 million customers to reach a total customer base of 12.1 million customers. As all of you are aware, Odisha was impacted by cyclone YAAS in the first quarter. Within a short time of taking over the Northern Circle, we were able to demonstrate that Tata Power with its operational strength was able to restore supplies to vital consumers like hospitals and oxygen plants in less than 4 hours and to other consumers within 48 hours. Similar works were carried out in Central Odisha, which was also impacted by the cyclone YAAS. We were able to achieve this despite COVID-related constraints through meticulous planning and large mobilization of people and materials. The efforts of the Odisha team has been applauded by various government agencies and the people over there, and once again, highlighting the efficiencies and benefits of an experienced distribution player and bring in power supply distribution. However, you would see that the double blow of COVID and cyclone has affected significantly works towards the restoration of the network and has also impacted collection during this quarter. As a result of which, the AT&C losses in the 4 discoms increased this quarter, because for both April and May, there was virtual lockdown in Odisha. However, the technical losses have been brought very close to the trajectory under the vesting order for these discoms. The reduced collections are reflected in the higher receivable which will be realized over the upcoming months. And we are confident that all these 4 discoms will meet the ATM target much before the expected date. As a result of the above business performance, the consolidated revenue for the first quarter stood at INR 8 -- INR 9,831 crore compared to INR 6,671 crore during previous year, a 47% growth during this period. The increase was largely driven by the inclusion of Odisha discoms operations in -- and also because of the increase in revenue due to execution of large-scale utility EPC projects, rooftop and solar pump business. Capitalizing on the low interest regime, we prepaid INR 1,500 crores of 11.4% perpetual debt, which will reduce our overall interest outflow, with the debt numbers having increased because the perpetual debt was classified as equity. With CapEx underway for our renewable projects, the net debt slightly increased to INR 38,898 crores. The selective prepayment of high-cost debt has helped us to reduce the interest cost from 7.99% last year to 6.95% in this year. Going forward, this reduced interest cost will give us a competitive edge. Our net debt to equity stood at 1.7 -- 1.57 compared to 1.81 last year. Net debt to underlying EBITDA has also come down to a healthy 4.1x. Many of you often ask us about our intent in the transmission space. We witnessed a crowding of bidders leading to unviable pricing. As a result, we deferred our plans. We have now revisited the current conditions in the transmission space and feel that the industry has consolidated quite a bit and has space for a large player like us. We are partnering with our own group company, Tata Projects, and will bid for good quality transmission projects going forward. We will factor this in our capital allocation plan for the next few years. Our EV charging business has also made remarkable progress, with strategic tie-ups with fuel retail outlets providing us access to important locations to our existing extensive network as we have reached more than 110 cities. The recent announcement by states like Gujarat and Maharashtra by providing various stops for EV purchases will also propel this segment, which is critical to sustain and nurture the EV environment. Our Tata Power 2.0 vision focused on environmentally sustainable businesses and the transparency through our reporting framework has been appreciated by you and has also helped us to be recognized by reputed rating agencies like CRISIL. We take immense proud in toping the CRISIL ESG score for power companies in India, scoring 67 out of 100 points. Such a recognition boosts our confidence to march ahead with the future ESG goals. We are future ready for a cleaner tomorrow and aim to capitalize our opportunities across the hybrid renewable projects, floating solar and new technologies in battery storage. Lastly, we want to thank all our analysts and investors for their support in this institutional investors all-Asia team pool. And with your support, we were able to secure top rankings in several categories, including the best IR program and ESG disclosure outside Mainland China. Once again, thank you for joining in this call. With this, I hand over back the call to Vikram for the question-and-answer session. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] We have our first question from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital.

Let me congratulate you upfront for a strong performance in Q1, particularly in the solar EPC business despite the second COVID wave. My first question is on the solar EPC business. For solar pump EPC, could you give us the revenue in Q1, a sense of the orders that you have in hand for solar pump EPC currently, and a status of the EESL tenders and how they are shaping up for execution this year? That will be my first part of the solar EPC question.

So first, on your -- you asked about solar pump. The pending order, we have about INR 175 crores.

INR 175 crores?

INR 175 crores, yes. Okay. Then what are the next question you asked?

Whats was the revenue? And the status of the EESL tenders.

Right. The revenue in pumps is INR 140 crores for the quarter. Then you asked about EESL tender.

Yes. I will update you on that. There is a court case going on in Delhi High Court by some of the bidders who were not selected. The hearing is expected to be on 12th of August. And EESL is confident of getting a positive order. Also, as a backup, both MNRE and EESL are proposing to come up with another set of bids along with the state government so as to meet the yearly target of 3 lakh pumps. So the ambitious program that government of India has under KUSUM, they want to go ahead and implement it. And they have alternate plans also to ensure that this year's target is met.

Sure. My question on solar rooftop EPC is you mentioned that the current order book is now INR 10 billion, if I heard you right, versus June end number, which was around INR 720 crores. So basically, what is the execution time line for this INR 10 billion order backlog in solar rooftop? And what was the revenue in Q1?

So depending upon the size of the orders, they can be executed from 1 month to 6 months period. So most of the orders are executed within that time line. So we expect that most of these orders will get executed within this financial year.

Okay. And the revenue in Q1, sir?

For rooftop EPC, INR 147 crores.

Okay. My second question on the EPC business is around margin, where we've seen weak margins in Q1, but we also understand that the [ coal ] car duty saw a sunset in July. So given that nothing has been put to replace that SGD, do you think for the EPC business in the balance fiscal that will be a lease on margins?

No. So you see the, Sumit, the margins are -- some of the older orders in which we had some model purchasing remaining, certainly, there has been a hike in prices. And therefore, in some of the older orders, we've got far less margin than the original plan. But in the subsequent orders and recent orders, since they are all benchmark for the new level of pricing, it will get restored. So I think this quarter, we've seen the impact of some of the higher coal model, I mean higher model prices reflected in the margins. But this is not a -- this is probably a short-term phenomena.

So making 5% profit margin in solar EPC business is something which is possible on a sustainable basis?

Well, we won't quote numbers. But yes, healthy margins are definitely sustainable.

Okay. You mentioned that in your presentation that -- sorry, earlier in your BSE filing that TPSSL shall not be amalgamated with the parent anymore. So what is the progress now on CGPL amalgamation with the parent? Expected time line there. And if you could give us a sense, a qualitative color on your plans to monetize stake in renewable portfolio because now TPSSL will not be put inside the stand-alone entities. So should we read that will be also bundled with your solar IPP business when you're looking at some monetization?

So on the CGPL merger, the last bunch of hearings are in progress. We expect to close the NCLT proceedings very soon, and thereafter, wait for the order to come. Of course, before that order is executed, we may have to do whatever process is there in terms of regulatory as well as shareholder approvals depending on the order of NCLT, because there's a change in the scheme. So we may have to do some procedure before that. But otherwise, it's on track. And we are confident in the next couple of months, it will be wrapped up. Now as far as the TPSSL thing is concerned, we are working on plans on how best to structure the renewable business. And I think as soon as we have something really ready to share, we will do that, but work is in progress.

Sure. Now a bookkeeping question. You mentioned that your -- on your Odisha slide due to cyclone and COVID-19 lockdown, collection had reduced, resulting in higher AT&C losses. What is the P&L impact and the balance sheet impact of this in Q1?

It's not a very significant impact, because compared to the plans, totally, it's about INR 20 crores of impact on PAT.

Balance sheet?

Well, I would say balance sheet, I'll give you the -- we'll send you separately the total of the core discounts. It basically reflects in higher debtors, right, because of the collection. Our T&D losses are pretty much on track. But the collection efficiency, billing and collection efficiencies were due to COVID, it was lagging, So since we did very well on the other accounts, overall impact is about INR 20 crores, as I said. But on balance sheet, this means excess debtors. We'll give you that number.

No. I'll take that separately. Very clear.

About INR 1,000 crores of debtors are to be carried over to the next quarter.

We have next question from the line of Swarnim Maheshwari from Edelweiss Securities.

Congratulations for a good set of numbers. On this prepayment of the loan of INR 1,500 crores, the perpetual debt, I just wanted to get some clarity over here. Was this planned or a very high rate of interest? So what was the nature of this exactly?

No. This was a perpetual debenture with 11.5% coupon. So it was due now. So anyhow, we had to replace it, and we've just replaced it by loans. And okay -- to add, the reason why we took this opportunity was that as per the terms of the bond, we had to -- we had an option after 10 years to prepay, and that's what we exercised.

Fair enough. Fair enough. Sure. So sir, the impact of this, if I understand is right, is basically that this INR 1,500 crores was never a part of our total borrowings, and it was rather in the equity side. Now this INR 1,500 crores actually move towards debt side. Is that right?

Correct. Correct. From equity to debt, it has moved actually.

Okay. Okay. And hence, the sequential increase also?

Correct. It is -- in that sense, in terms of impact on P&L, it is positive.

Yes. Got it, sir. Got it. Now you have -- you are planning to enter the Tata Projects on the transmission side. So really excited for that. But what is the sense over here in terms of bidding? Are we looking for this interstate projects right now? Are we open for intrastate projects also? So if you can give some color and some color over there.

So all kinds, and probably if any stress projects are there, we might look at that also under construction. So the whole idea is to build a good portfolio and eventually to find an appropriate structure for that also. So all that is in the works. So right now, we are more -- we just will just get started. Of course, I have to tell you that we have a platform, as you know, resurgent platform, we -- since Tata Power was not doing transmission in any case, we were -- we had undertaken some transmission stress projects, acquisitions through that. But this would be more focusing on greenfield to start with. And of course, will include any nature of projects that we feel is creditworthy and within our risk parameters.

We have next question from the line of Murtuza Arsiwalla from Kotak Securities.

I just want to check, I mean, specifically in terms of CGPL, we saw very low sort of generation and availability. Presumably, that's because of the elevated coal prices. If we assume coal prices to stay where they are, how should we think of the balancing act between the CGPL losses and the profits, normalized sort of margins from the coal business? If you could throw some color on that given where coal prices are currently.

Okay. So the -- if -- I mean, just indicatively, I'm saying that if coal prices remain where they are, the gap between the 2 in terms of the adjustment between loss and profit, that could marginally be higher because of the fact that things like the DMO obligations exists are coming at very high prices. So there will be a slight impact negatively, but it will be very slight. And secondly, what we're trying to address that particular issue is that we are trying to also adjust the level of generation and also the source of the coal and the timing of -- through the year, we will take advantage of price reductions at times during the year to offset that. So overall, it's not going to be a significant impact, is what our target is. It's going to be a nominal impact, whichever way the coal goes.

But just as a follow-up to that, what would be a minimum level of that you would have to commit to, let's say, in a year's time to keep that equation in order in terms of availability, charges not being lost?

So this is a slightly complex calculation. Briefly, I'll tell you the contract does provide for 80% as the minimum availability to charge the full fixed charges. But then you have to see that, in light of the fact that whether the variable losses, which is the under-recovery on account of variable -- on a variable basis, how much is that related to the extra fixed charges that you collect? So as long as the prices remain high, there is no commercial benefit in producing more, right? So therefore, the level of generation is purely a factor of how -- what is the level of coal prices. And also, it's not that we are barred from producing lower. It's just that there are appropriate reduction in the fixed charges and penalties which are there if you go below certain levels. So the decision making is complex based on all these factors. And then we see which is the one which gives us the best results.

No, I understand it's very dynamic depending on where coal prices are and how you think of it. Yes. I just wanted to get an indication of that.

We have next question from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital.

Congratulation on a good set of numbers. Sir, one clarification, sir, did you say last conference call, you said to update on the new monetization structure. I don't know whether you answered this question, but can you please update again?

Are you talking about renewables?

Yes. Yes. Renewables and the clean portfolio, if you have something.

Yes. So I think this question was asked, and I think our answer was and will remain the same, that we are in process of coming to what is the best possible approach to renewals in terms of structure. So the one decision which you know we have taken is to not to merge the manufacturing business of Tata Power solar into the stand-alone, which was the original plan. So I think in light of that decision, we are still working on it. And as soon as something tangible is worth sharing with all, we will be announcing it.

So what's your expected time line, if I may ask?

Well, the [ here ] between now and another 12 to 15 months, we are trying to think over this. Look, we are not today starved of capital. Please understand. We need to do the best thing which is possible for the company. And therefore, there is no time pressure on our end right now. But suffice to say that we are seriously working on it to find the best route. And at an appropriate time, we will do what's probably the best possible thing.

Okay. Secondly, on the, sir, solar pump business. Do you think a delay in EESL tender will have some impact on the kind of volumes you're building for FY '22? And do you think this could be a size of roughly around 1 lakh or 1 lakh and 1.5 lakh volume going forward in FY '23 for us?

So we shared with you that in the last quarter, we had a record execution of solar pumps. And we still have a pipeline of orders which is -- which we need to execute in this quarter and the next quarter. We are expecting that within August, some decision will be taken, either the court case will get clear or some alternate purchase mechanism, because it's a target of even government of India under KUSUM to ensure that solarization of pumps takes place at a very rapid pace. And so to that extent, the government has assured us that within August, they will decide. And then we will have enough time during the year to complete all the orders that we have planned for this year and in subsequent years also.

Sir, qualitatively, can you answer that does the solar margin profile is different in solar pumps compared to solar EPC business? Is it much higher?

They are more or less in the same street, the same range, I would say, give or take, 0.5%, 1%, but they are in the same range.

We have next question from the line of Deepika Mundra from JPMorgan.

Sir, firstly, on the asset monetization side. Can you talk about some of the plans on the noncore asset monetization? How are they progressing? That's my first question. Secondly, on the privatization of discoms. You highlighted, I think, a bunch of opportunity potential. So I think Chandigarh is one bid which is in the press. Any comments on that? And any comment on future opportunities? How soon they can come to fruition?

So let me try to respond to the second question first. So on the distribution opportunity, the Chandigarh bid has been open. We still have to see how the evaluation takes place and what gets decided. As far as the other opportunities are concerned, we are waiting for the Electricity Act amendment. And you have heard the Union Power Minister and also the Finance Minister in the budget speech has mentioned about opening up and delicensing the distribution. From our side, we are getting ready for this opportunity. And we are scrutinizing various cities, various locations where we would like to go. It will definitely be a multicity plan and not just one city in -- and different states that we will go. So we are getting ready with all our plans, that as soon as the Parliament approves the Electricity Act and also the regulations for that gets finalized, we will be going to numerous cities and provide the quality service that we have been providing in Delhi, in Mumbai, and Odisha. And the other one is on asset monetization. Yes.

On the asset monetization, we continue to work on the assets in Zambia, Georgia and our coal assets. We continue to work on them. And of course, during -- because of COVID, there's been a lot of interruptions. But we'll continue to work on that and hope to close it this year. Let's see. We are trying our best.

Okay. And sir, if I can just follow up on the discom bid. Given the wide disparity in what the bid seem to be, are there any other evaluation criteria which are into play? And do you see competitive intensity picking up here as well with more players entering?

Yes. There will be definitely more players, but there is that much many opportunities. So we have 28 states and 9 union territories. The existing are about more than 70 utilities, state utilities who are working. So it's very natural that we will have more number of players coming in, but there is definitely space for Tata Power, especially our earlier experience and the domain knowledge that we have. So we feel very confident that in many cities, we will be able to make an entry. And we will be ready for any sort of competition going forward. And on the criteria, evaluation criteria, those are things which between their consultants and the Chandigarh administration, they need to take a call on that.

We have next question from the line of Puneet Gulati from HSBC.

You talked about distribution opportunity opening up post the Electricity Amendment Act. In your experience, what other steps does the government need to do before the opportunity really opens up?

See, the first is that it has to be approved by the Parliament. So once it is approved by the Parliament, each of the states will also have to adopt it. And once that is adopted by each of the states, they can go ahead. Also, in the Electricity Act Amendment, it is written that the rules and regulations for going through the process of delicensing and the service level agreements and conditions will be prepared by forum of regulators. And that will again get adopted by the state regulators for implementation. So the whole process, even after the approval of the Parliament, will take about a year. But I think there's already a lot of downwards which has been done. And people are keen that they take it forward once the -- a decision on this is taken.

Okay. So even if a few states agree, will that be good enough to start the process? Or will everybody have to agree and then a forum of regulators come in place?

Typically, in all the states, like any amendment that takes place in the concurrent list issues, whichever states agree based on their individual time lines, it can go ahead. And others, subsequently -- it is not that the states will not be agreeing to it. It's just a question of timing. So it's not either or. It has to be done. But yes, some of the states may take a little longer period of time, but it will eventually get done.

Okay. Understood. And can you give some more light on your EV business model? Now you have a substantial number of home chargers, some 3,000-plus already installed. How does the revenue mechanism and profitability work out of those?

So let me try to explain to you that in EV charging, there are 3 types of models or 3 business model. One is the home charger where the EV OEM asks us to go and set up the home chargers, which we go and provide whenever a person buys the electric vehicles. So -- and that has -- is based on the revenue model, whereby we get upfront money for providing that facility. The second is the public chargers in which you get the necessary approval, either from the corporations or whoever is the owner of the land, in many cases, if it is petrol pumps or banks or any other owner who is there of a public location, they will give you permission to put it. And you go and put it on your own commercial risk basis. Based on utilization, you will get the revenue. And that depends on what sort of penetration of electric vehicle is taking place and what is the usage pattern for public traffic. The third is fleet owners, bus depots and all, where, again, you are a service provider and you get paid. And there are 2 models. You either get paid upfront or you get paid on a yearly annuity-based structure whereby there is a subscription model and you get paid on a monthly basis. So those are the 3 models that we typically are working on.

Yes. But in terms of home charger, what kind of percentage of the electricity charge do you get paid?

No. We don't get paid electricity charges. So it's a service charge for the service that we provide. And then there is also a subscription for the other services, customer-related services in terms of the app that has been given and the update of information that is provided to them.

No. Is it possible to get some unit economics there? What kind of per charger revenue would you be generating from a home charger where the penetration is quite decent now?

So we should -- we'll be able to provide you with the details. It's a different rate. Different cities have different electricity rates for EV chargers. And then you have your own service charge for that.

Understood. My last question is on the merger of CGPL. Would you still get the benefit for FY '21? And despite not including solar EPC, would you still be able to make use of the entire unabsorbed losses?

So the petition remains the same, right, as it was originally. The only modification we are doing is that Tata Power solar piece is no more part of the merger scheme. So all the other benefits will remain the same.

Okay. So even for the regulated business, you can get the benefit of lower taxation?

Yes, the corporate, yes. At the corporate level, yes.

We have next question from the line of Subhadip Mitra from JM Financial.

My first question is with regard to the EPC business. In your opinion, are you seeing clients progressively moving to procuring the modules on their own and giving up the EPC contracts ex of modules? Would you be seeing that happening, say, for the larger clients like NTPC?

No. In fact, large clients like NTPC only give EPC because they want end-to-end responsibility. And not only they give you the EPC, but also ask you to do the O&M for 5 years. So they are looking at a guaranteed good quality supplier and not trying to make -- save some money by procuring panels, which may not be of the quality that Tata Power with its experience will be able to provide.

Understood. Secondly, given the higher targets that the government has come up with on the solar side and probably more visibility in terms of pipeline of tendering, are you looking at upping your target -- capacity addition and the EPC targets put together? I think you talked about 2 gigawatts per annum. Would you be looking at upping that number now?

So we are not looking at upping our number because, again, we are very cautious in terms of bidding and the type of tariffs that we would bid and we would like to get the margin for. Secondly, we are also very particular what is the risk profile of the states in which we will be bidding. So we are definitely sticking to our existing target. And we feel very confident that with the type of numbers that the government is talking about and the plans in the next 10 years, we'll be able to meet our targets going forward.

Understood. Lastly, on the EV charging business. Would it be possible to share as to what is your overall investment that you're planning to have in this particular business segment, say, over the next 2, 3 years? And any target revenue number?

Sure. We should be -- and you can check our analyst presentation made last year. We have given a 5-year visibility. And if you have -- want some more details on that, please contact Rahul and Kasturi, we'll be happy to help you. That presentation is there also on our website.

Presentation is also there on the website.

We have next question from the line of Anupam Goswami from B&K Securities.

Sir, you mentioned in your opening remarks about some transmission bidding that had got crowded. And we are now looking for a different sort of transformation bidding afterwards later with Tata Projects. So what actually happened there? And also, you mentioned about reallocating your CapEx plan. So what's -- going forward, what is your CapEx plans? And what is our target?