Torrent Pharmaceuticals Limited (500420) Q3 FY2026 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q3 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call of Torrent Pharma. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sudhir Menon, Executive Director of Finance and CFO. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the third quarter earnings call for quarter 3 FY '26. This quarter, we continue to see healthy performance in our branded markets, which accounted for roughly 75% of the overall revenues this quarter. Our 2 largest branded markets, India and Brazil each continued to deliver healthy double-digit growth. India business grew at 14% and Brazil grew at 27%. Constant currency growth in Brazil for the quarter was 10% while the secondary sales grew at 13%. On the generics side, U.S. business grew at 19% and Germany grew at 8%. In constant currency terms, Germany revenues have declined by 6%, mainly due to the continued disruption at the third-party supplier. Quickly on the financial performance for quarter 3, revenues were INR 3,303 crores, up by 18%. Operating EBITDA at INR 1,088 crores grew by 19%. And operating EBITDA margin stands at 32.9%. A very quick update on JB Pharma acquisition. So we have acquired the controlling stake of 46.39% in JB on 21st of January, followed by another 2.41% stake purchase from certain employees. So effectively, from 21st January, JB will start getting consolidated into Torrent Pharma. As a next step, we expect the SEBI approval for the merger scheme soon and we will file the merger application with NCLT over the next few days. Overall, we remain on track to complete the transaction as per previously indicated time lines. I'll now hand over the call to Aman for India business.

Thanks, Sudhir. India revenue at INR 1,798 crores registered a growth of 14% as per the AIOCD pharma track market data, the IPM growth for the quarter was 10%. We are seeing continued volume outperformance over the IPM in chronic and subchronic therapies led by cardiac, gastro and diabetes segments. The Curatio business grew at 27% in Q3 and also 27% in YTD 9 months for the year driven by strong demand generation on account of OTC ad spends and field force expansion. We are hopeful that the high growth now should continue for the rest of the financial year as well. Field force strength at the end of the quarter stands at 6,900 versus 6,800 last quarter, and we remain on track to close the financial year with the strength of just over 7,000. Going forward, we expect our India business to continue outperforming the market growth. Our focus during the rest of the year will be to continue improving our market share in focused therapies, improving field force productivity and the expansion business and scaling up of the Curatio business. An update on JB, following the acquisition of controlling interest of 48.8% in the company, our priority now is to ensure continuity in business operations and ensure there is a smooth transition under the new leadership team. I will now hand over to Mr. Sanjay Gupta for the international business of Torrent.

Thanks, Aman. We'll start with the branded generics market of Brazil. Based on internal sales, Q3 constant currency revenue was BRL 224 million registering a 10% year-on-year growth. IQVIA data shows Q3 market growth at 7%, with Torrent growing at 13%. We are seeing healthy volume growth coupled with mid-single-digit pricing increase. Torrent has a rich pipeline of 60 molecules, which are currently awaiting approval at ANVISA. In Germany, our German business registered a constant currency revenue of EUR 29 million, down by 6%. As highlighted last quarter, growth continues to be impacted due to disruption at a third-party supplier. In the U.S., we registered constant currency revenues of $36 million, up by 12%. Growth is coming from our new launches where we have achieved our target market share, and we are also seeing increased purchase volume on existing contracts. I would like to conclude the opening comments here and open the call up for questions.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Damayanti Kerai from HSBC.

My first question is on JB acquisition. So you mentioned now you have 48.8% stake and it will be consolidated as part of your financials. So will it be a line by line consolidation or how you consolidate before like the complete merger happened.

So consolidation, Damayanti is line by line only. So effective from 21st of January till 31st of March, the quarter 4 numbers will include JB numbers.

Okay. That's clear. And on India segment, the 14% growth, can you split across volume price and new launches, the way you generally do?

Yes. So as per the AIOCD pharma track data, our reflected growth is 14%, which is the same as the reported growth. The breakup of 14% is 5.5% volume versus 1.2% of the market. 5.8% price versus 5.6% of the market and 2.7% new products versus 2.8% of the market.

Okay. My last question is on Germany. So we -- like we are yet to see a resolution of the supply disruption. So what is the time line? When do you think things can come back on track here?

So unfortunately, Damayanti, I cannot give a time line because our suppliers caught up in regulatory issues, and I don't have visibility as to when we will start manufacturing again. And these days, it's very complicated in Europe because they also consider the observations of the USFDA, et cetera. So it's a little different in Europe currently than what I have seen in the past, there's a lot of interaction between the EMEA and the FDA. So things are taking longer to resolve. So honestly, I cannot give guidance.

Okay. And is there a possibility to move to an alternative supply or even that will be very time consuming.

Well, it is time consuming, but we are working on it. So we have started work on it already last quarter. So -- but it will take at least 3 to 4 quarters to get an alternate supplier on board. So we are trying to move some of the products to our own facilities -- time consuming.

Our next question comes from the line of Gautam Rajesh from Leo Capital.

My question was for the GLP-1, do you have any finished capacity for it? And is that for Indian market or the emerging market?

No, we do not. We only have capacity for the oral, everything else will be partnered for India and other markets.

All right. And who would be our partner? Is that possible to reveal.

We can share that once we launch.

Understood. And which geographies you will be launching in and only in India would it be partnership or everywhere else.

So the [ injectable ] partnership is across all territories. The first launch is most likely going to be India, followed by other markets. So we can share an update once the launch is done next quarter.

Understood. And other markets you don't want to reveal right now? Or is that possible?

No, we had already shared about Brazil last time as well. Nothing changes in terms of time line. It's a bit behind what we would have liked. So probably sometime in the next financial year. So even though we would be late to the game, the market opportunity is much larger than the Indian market. So it should still be an interesting opportunity.

Our next question comes from the line of Neha M. from Bank of America.

Sudhir, now that we've acquired the stake in JB. I know that the merger still depends on SEBI approval, et cetera. But how should we think about other than the continuity of operation and conditions that you've mentioned, the synergies that you should see? Would that essentially all come through once the merger is done? I mean if you could just tell us what we can expect in the next, let's say, 6 months or 12 months and probably longer term, how should we look at the synergies from the deal?

So I think in terms of time lines, Neha, until the effective merger order, both the entities will remain separate. And in terms of time lines, we think once we file to NCLT, then probably 6 to 9 months, as indicated earlier should be the time line we should be looking at in terms of integrating both the entities. I think in terms of synergy, some part of the synergy will start flowing from now on. And maybe a major part of that will come post the integration happening.

And what part of the synergy -- I mean, if you don't want to quantify it, I mean, what areas of synergy do you think you can get now before the merger? I understand what can come after the merger, but what do you think we can bring to the table now before the merger happens?

I think we are happy to quantify at this stage. I think we're waiting to understand the business a bit more over the last couple of quarters. So broadly, I would say that our synergy number is looking like INR 400 crores, INR 450 crores over the next 2 to 3 years. Maybe 20% of that could be in the first year to 80% of that could be in the second year and the rest in the third year. So that's what it currently looks like.

So you said INR 400 crores to INR 450 crores in the next 2 to 3 years?

That's correct.

And the first year is starting now, right? It's not first year after the merger?

No. First year would mean now. Obviously, some of the effect would come on subsequently in the coming quarters, but we will start seeing some benefit in the subsequent quarters already.

Again, this 20% that you're talking about synergies, these would be largely cost synergies that you would see initially because I'm assuming revenue synergies would require a merger probably or would it be a mix...

This number is only cost. We have not looked at revenue synergies yet. We'll wait for first year business top line to stabilize and then we can look at revenue synergies.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from the line of Aditya Vikram from DB Securities Private Limited.

So quick question. Once the JB merger happens, right, what would be the margin guidance if it all, considering you are going to have cost savings. JB currently have an EBITDA margin of 18% to 19%, you are sitting at 32%. Even if we consider the synergies, is this going to be margin accretive for our businesses. I understand that you haven't done on the revenue side so far, but you must have some ballpark numbers in your head?

So I think the -- firstly, JB's margin is closer to 28%, 29% EBITDA margin. I think our margin this year has been in the range of 32.5% to 33%. So there is definitely a scope to bring JB's margin closer to our base business margin in the next financial year. We've already given the number on the synergy -- cost synergy target for the next 3 years. So I guess, you can work out the margin potential there. I think it will be a bit too complicated to look at the combined margin at this stage. But stand-alone JB, certainly, there is significant scope for margin improvement.

And in terms of U.S., how are you seeing the growth there? Is it stabilizing with this tariff news out of the way...

Sorry to interrupt Aditya, but your line is not clear. May I request you to please ask your question again.

Sure. Is it better now? Okay. So how is U.S. looking for you? I know there was no tariff on pharma in any case, right? But after this tariff news out of the way, are you seeing the potential to grow above 20% on the U.S. side in the subsequent quarters?

So U.S. we are a very small player. We do $35 million, $36 million a quarter. And it's really dependent upon new launches, but also upon the level of competition that we see in the new launches. So we have a healthy pipeline, and we are augmenting the pipeline for the U.S., but it's hard to give guidance today. It depends really on when the new launch will happen and the competitive landscape at that point in time.

Okay. And I just want to clarify something one more time. In your opening remarks, you guys said that you will continue with a double-digit volume growth for the India business in subsequent quarters as well. Is that correct?

What we had said was we will continue the above-market volume growth, double-digit growth overall including price and new products. And our volume growth is about 5.5% for the quarter.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from the line of Kunal Randeria from Axis Capital.

Sir, in the previous call, you have mentioned that the Brazil GLP-1 market is around $1 billion so in the first wave of launches in March, what would be the competitive scenario that you see. And typically, what's the kind of price erosion that you would expect based on your understanding of the market?

So we don't think we'll be the first one to launch, right? So I don't know it will be somewhere in the range of between 3 to 5 a launch. And we filed Ozempic, which is today a $270 million market. And the rest is, as you know, has been taken over by Wegovy. So Wegovy will come to us, but it's a little bit down the line. And I can't really give guidance on Brazilian price erosion because it depends really on how many players come to the market and who are the players who come to the market. Some of the players are known for very aggressive pricing and some others are much more reasonable. But to be safe, you can take like at least 50% price, 45% price erosion on the Brazilian market. But honestly, it's hard because it's been all over the map. So I've seen price erosion of 90% on a couple of products. And I have seen price erosion of 20% also. It honestly depends upon just the same thing, how many players and what's the nature of the player.

Sir, in March, it's only the Ozempic generics which are hitting the market? Or are some players also launching Wegovy generics?

So generally, the Wegovy generics in Brazil are behind. So Ozempic was the first one that was launched and Wegovy came much later by the innovator. So hence, the Wegovy generics are all running behind Ozempic brand.

But do you think there could be some substitution happening because Ozempic will become cheaper versus Wegovy.

It's hard because the laws are very strict. And I think the Brazilian law requires the pharmacist to keep a copy of the prescription and to make sure the right product is dispensed against the right prescription. So the government has been very strict with the semaglutide usage. And it's hard for a pharmacist to substitute. So I expect the substitution to be minimum.

Got it, sir. And so my assumption -- I mean if I understand correctly, you'll be launching Ozempic this year and then Wegovy sometime next year?

I can't give you the exact timing because it's in the hands of the regulator. Our products have been with the regulator for a substantial number of months. So -- and they are giving some kind of priority review for such an important product. So they've kind of improved our ranking in approval. So the queue for semaglutide, you get an opportunity to move up the queue. So they moved us up also in terms of prioritization of approval as compared to other molecules. So -- but I cannot give guidance as to when it will get approved and launched. But we have the pieces in place. So once we get approved, we will be ready to launch.

Got it, sir. And just one more, if I can. I think in the India business, you had said the sales force would go up to 7,000 at the end of FY '26. So would you be on track for that or there would be any changes to that?

Yes, that's correct. It will be just over 7,000 so maybe close to 7,100. And as of now, we see maybe some additional visibility in the next coming year as well financial year, could be around 7,500 maybe by end of FY '27.

Our next question comes from the line of Vivek Agrawal from Citigroup.

You have highlighted that there is some kind of disruption from one of your suppliers, et cetera, right? So I just want to understand whether the disruption is fully there in the numbers? Or is it like partly reflected or, for example quarter, we can see the sales...

No, it's fully there...

Sir, one question I have on U.S., right? So for quite some time if you look at your sales numbers are largely hovering around somewhere around $33 million to $35 million in a month. Now if you look at both of your facilities, major facilities are clear. So when I think you are expecting kind of a meaningful jump in U.S. sales or any possibility that it can go up to $45 million, $50 million.

Okay. It can only go up from here. That's my hope actually because it's already kind of low so I would guide towards a higher sales number from where we are. And I would guide towards at least 5 to 7 launches a year. Now depending upon the timing, our U.S. launch if it's 10 days late, it's too late. So it has to come on time and sometimes it helps that your competitors are not on time. So -- but we are looking at a one directional sales growth in the U.S. from here on. So how fast that happens, we are not happy with this current level of $150 million, $160 million. So the first threshold we are looking to across the $200 million per year. And hopefully, next year, we'll do that. I mean, I'm being optimistic and taking a punt on the launches that we will have.

So you are suggesting that FY '27, you can be $200 million kind of number in U.S. possibly.

I'm targeting based on what I see in our plans. But again, it's not in Torrent's hand.

Understood. One question, if I can ask on JB acquisition...

Sorry to interrupt, Vivek, you do sound a little muffled. May I request you to please check the device mode that you're using?

Sorry, on JB acquisition guide so -- is there any possibility that the growth of this company like that can slow down maybe during integration, et cetera, that kind of disruption because of the transaction? Or do you think that this company can keep growing the way it is growing over the last few years during the transaction.

There's -- so our view strongly is that the fundamentals of the business are fairly robust. So the medium-term, long-term prospects are looking pretty much as what we expected pre-acquisition and now. What we do expect is a bit of a course correction in this current Q4 because in any change of control situation, there are changes of business practices. And I mean you have to kind of integrate processes and so on. So Q4 could be a little bit muted in both India and international. But Q1 onwards, they should be pretty much absolutely back on track.

Just one more question, if I can squeeze in. This is on Brazil. It looked like that and you have highlighted the product semaglutide launch seems to have been delayed and pushed to next year. So -- itself is taking time to approve the filings out there. Any color actually that would be helpful if you can help us understand that how the regulator is taking on the filings? Or there is a possibility that even the market formation can get delayed by the [indiscernible].

So, I can tell you 2 things. One is the file is solid and the second thing is the regulator prioritizing this product. That's all. I don't know. I can't give you an exact month and date, but I know there's a regulator prioritizing semaglutide generics. And I know that the file that we have sent is complete in all ways that we can think of. So other than that, really not much to say.

Our next question is from the line of Bansi Desai from JPMorgan.

So my first question is, until the JB merger concludes, how should we think about the -- how will the marketing of JB brands work? So does Torrent MR get to market JB brands or that will remain separate until the time we merge the entities.

No, it will be separate. All the divisions of JB will remain within JB till merger. Only post-merger can any such change be possible.

So then in that event, if there is MR accretion on the JB side, then how do we ensure that we do not see disruption in sales?

Well, the attrition in the last 6 months where the period between the announcement of the deal and till now, the attrition has been pretty much the same as the historical attrition. It hasn't gone up. And we don't see any reason why it can go up, especially after the closure of transaction. In fact, we'll probably do our best to reduce attrition as much as possible. So we don't really see that to be an issue post -- I mean, post our change of control.

Okay. And also on the purchase price, could we get an understanding of a breakup into goodwill and intangibles? And how many years should we think about amortizing this.

So Bansi, the amortization policy for Torrent has been 15 years. You'll just have to wait for 1 quarter because that whole purchase price allocation work is going on. And maybe by end of February, we should have the numbers in place. So I think once that is done, I should be able to guide you.

All right. And also lastly, how should we think about debt prepayment in how many years do we get back to our net cash position?

Yes, I think this is something which I had guided earlier. So I think the way I'm looking at is if I correctly remember the numbers, FY '27 will be the first year of integrated Torrent. FY '28, my net debt to EBITDA should be around 1, 1.1x. And FY '29, it should be around 0.6 from what I remember, plus/minus here and there. I think this is the broad guidance I can give.

Okay. And what should we assume as cost of interest here?

So average cost of interest is roughly 7.6%.

Our next question comes from the line of Abdulkader Puranwala from ICICI Securities.

So my first question is pertaining to the JB Chemicals acquisition. So while the complete control or the merger of the 2 entities will take another 6 to 8 months. In the near term, how are we dealing at the senior level attrition, especially where the CEO and CFO of JB has resigned so I mean are we going to have 2 different managements in place? Or it would be the Torrent team completely taking over?

Certain critical roles like CFO, there will be a separate CFO for JB, similarly, wherever any such critical role is required. There will be a separate team running at the senior level. And eventually, it should all merge into Torrent.

Understood. And second one I had is the bookkeeping question. So while in most of the geographies, it seems like you have a currency benefit and your other income is still negative for the quarter. So what explains that negative other income for the quarter.

So there's a hedging loss which we have booked in other income close to INR 45 crores.

The next question is from the line of Gaurav T from Ambit.

Just a clarification on the synergy number, INR 400 crores to INR 450 crores in next 2 to 3 years. Is that -- so JB has this Novartis ophthal portfolio, which is currently in-license and there's an opportunity for growing gross margin in that portfolio by FY '28. So INR 400 crores, INR 450 crores number is inclusive of that gross margin synergies on the ophthal portfolio of Novartis.

No, it does not include that. There's 2 parts. There's the Novartis business of the ophthal portfolio and the Azmarda portfolio. So this synergy number does not include either of these.

Perfect. Okay. Secondly, on Brazil ex of semaglutide. I think one of your peers reported quarterly numbers where they had a new launch and high growth with DAPA. So any guidance on the number of new product launches in Brazil ex of sema and how that growth trajectory can look like over the next 2 to 3 years, please?

So we have good visibility on new bunches. So we'll be doing about 5 to 6 launches a year.

And in terms of growth, can that translate to a 20% kind of a growth CAGR ex of sema over the next 2 or 3 years?

So the market growth itself has slowed down considerably. We are seeing a market growth of 6%, 7%, and I'm targeting 10% to 15% growth for Torrent. So driven by new products and pricing increase in Brazil have muted considerably because they managed to keep inflation under control with crazy high interest rates. So that inflation is pretty low and the price increases we are seeing is not like old times. Nowadays, we are seeing 4% and 5%, which also companies are not able to take because of competition. So combining muted pricing increase, some volume increase and new products, I think in the range of 10% to 15% is reasonable to expect. In terms of secondary sales growth, demand growth, prescription growth and primary sales varies up and down a little bit based on wholesale decisions on inventory.

The next question is from the line of Tushar Manudhane from Motilal Oswal Financial Services Limited.

Just one more on the JB side. So any therapy in India or, let's say, segment in India and then likewise in the international market, which you think is not going to be remunerated or not aligns with the foreign pharma strategies, if you would like to eliminate or reduce considerably.

Not therapy exactly, but certainly the JB trade generics business is not something which we are looking at continuing. It's been practically run at 0 margin. So -- and if we keep running it, it will keep giving us stock returns. So we are planning to if not discontinue at least shift some of it to our base trade generics business at the earliest possible.

That is as far as the India business and on the international market side?

International is all fairly complementary. So nothing that we see there, which doesn't align with our current strategy.

Got it, sir. And for -- at a group level, right, within, let's say, Europe or LatAm or any other let's say developed markets where we've been doing pretty well may it be in India, Brazil, U.S. sort of growing Germany, certain temporary constraints. But any other geographies where Torrent would intend to make mark or start building in addition to these core geographies.

So you're talking in the context of JB, right?

No, at a Torrent group level.

So 4 large markets like India, Brazil, Germany, U.S. and we are preparing future large markets like Russia, then Mexico, then the Philippines. So this should be -- become in the medium term, roughly $50 million market, and that's what we are targeting. And then there's another series of markets below that, that are currently in the $10 million range and we want to take them up to $25 million. So that is the way we look at our, let's say, geographical portfolio.

And $50 million each or the combined you referred to and over what period?

It will take 3, 4 years, but the division bring us much in terms of front-end sales in Mexico, neither in the Philippines. And so in Russia, they do add so we have current business of $20 million, and they bring, let's say, another 50% of that. So it leads to a scale improvement generally in all emerging markets especially in Africa and Eastern Europe and Russia. So this combined scale provides you an opportunity to be more visible on the market to invest more on the market, increase profitability and to increase momentum.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question is from the line of Girish Bakhru from OrbiMed.

Sanjay, I'm just trying to understand ANVISA better here. I know you don't have a crystal ball, but given that there are 11, 12 filers in sema, I mean, has it happened in the past where regulator has had the situation where there are so many filers on the new product? And I mean how many can it approve in the first wave? I mean, typically, ANVISA approves I think 2, 3 products in any semester, right?

No, no, no, it's not like that. No, no. They can -- it's pretty much like anywhere else in the world. There's no kind of quota system in Brazil. So we give some flexibility for you to prioritize and indicate to them, which are your priority dossiers and then you can kind of push them up the queue. But they can approve as many as you want. I've never seen any limitation from ANVISA in terms of number of...

So when you say wave of launch, you being, let's say, maybe in the second wave. First wave can be as big as 5 approvals also, right?

Yes, yes, I'm hoping to be in the first 5, but let's see because our file is there. But again, we have Ozempic, which is ahead. Wegovy is behind. So -- and the bigger market is Wegovy.

Understood. And typically, I mean, for a product like this, supply chain is different? Or is it like, again, same like other generics?

No. So I mean it's not a Torrent supply chain on this one, right, because we are not manufacturing. So -- and it's a device, so it's slightly different. But otherwise, it will work, we have the systems to make it work.

My question is more on the like distribution side. Do we have to have large distributors, local distributors like RD and this Abra pharma tied up to that -- market?

So these big distributors, they have a refrigerated supply chain. So we don't anticipate any problems because they are so large. So Santa Cruz, Abra pharma that you mentioned, they all have capabilities to distribute refrigerated products, temperature controlled products. So not an issue.

But would they take more than 3, 4 supplies. I understand capacity can be an issue, so they may take. Typically, let's say, whoever gets in the first wave would lock in the distributors, right?

You can't lock in distributors so usually because basically, Brazil is a prescription market, right? So you have to convince the physician that your product is a viable product. So pretty much like India, right? So if the physician is writing and they are seeing the Rxs coming in, they would stop your product. So the battle is less -- it's not like a trade market, right? Brazil is more a prescription-driven market. So we have to convince the doctors that our product has the right quality, right price and we give the right service levels. So it should be fine as far as the distributors. We do that every day, controlling chains and distributors. That's part of our bread and butter and we don't anticipate a barrier to entry on that front.

Understood. And I just wanted to also check oral pain is already filed by Novo in Brazil. I think approval maybe probably, I don't know, this year late or next year, but would you file oral in the Brazil as well in India.

So we're looking at that because Aman has that product in India and potentially we can extend into Brazil. But we haven't filed this as yet.

The next question is from the line of Vivek Agrawal from Citigroup.

Although you are not quantifying as far as the revenue synergies are concerned from JBD. But any possibilities that what kind of profitability for any kind of business synergies over a period of time, et cetera. Any qualitative color actually you can make that would be helpful.

I mean, qualitatively, if we look at some of the past revenue synergies that we've been able to kind of deliver most recently being in Curatio brands and divisions. It's generally where the Torrent division has had a kind of longer duration of presence in those regions and areas where you then start selling or cross-selling. Over time, that does really can show positive outcomes. So you would have seen the growth of the Curatio basket of drugs or products has increased every year sequentially as a result of this. So not saying that this is what we can expect in the case of every acquisition in JB, but there are certainly pockets where even within the established JB brands. There are areas where Torrent divisions or field force has had a much longer presence or has a stronger bank equity or corporate equity, which can be leveraged. So this would be across cardiac and gastro especially, which are the 2 largest business contributors for Torrent and JB both. So because of our number of field force that we have in Torrent, the opportunity is quite significant to at least get the reach enhanced as quickly as possible. And even in overlapping areas, there could be low market share of JB versus higher market share of Torrent in some products and where you can really look at opportunities. But this is something that we would not want to focus on in the first year. First year would be pretty much in terms of top line business as usual. First year will be probably more on the cost side. And second year onwards, this is when we can start really looking at this.

The next question comes from the line of Tushar Manudhane from Motilal Oswal Financial Services Limited.

Yes, just a net debt number at the end of Q2.

So net debt number as in December is roughly INR 880 crores.

And how this trajectory with this acquisition where you have shared the net debt-to-EBITDA ratio, but if you could just quantify as at the end of FY '26 subsequently '27, the net debt number.

I think at this point, it's difficult to tell you the numbers, Tushar, but the guidance which I gave you, which I gave earlier, I think that you should be able to work it out.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as our last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Sanjay Gupta, Executive Director of International Business for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

Thank you very much for joining this call, and we look forward to updating you in the future about our progress. Thank you.

Thank you. On behalf of Torrent Pharma, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.