Troax Group AB (publ) ($TROAX)

[indiscernible] I'm the President and CEO of the group since close to 2 years. Without further ado, we will dive into the report. And after my presentation, we will follow up with a Q&A session, which we will moderate. If we start with the first quarter highlights, I'm very happy, very pleased that we had a record order intake in the group's history. This growth is driven by -- mainly by our acquisitions. So in total, we had an order intake growth of 18% in the quarter. Also, our net sales increased, but not as much. And also the net sales was driven by our recent acquisitions. Order intake decreased year-on-year. However, it improved versus the fourth quarter. So sequentially, we saw a slight uptick also in our organic order intake. During the quarter, we had declining organic invoicing, mainly due to our project to close down our Chicago facility and ramp up our new facility in Nashville. This meant that we, during the quarter, were making the move and also ramping up and down. And during the quarter, we have not reached the full pace at the beginning of the quarter. So for the full quarter, we we were not invoicing as much as a normal quarter, so to speak. We also saw our price increases that we put through in the fourth quarter due to raw material and Energy & Transportation. They have also started to come in positively both to the sales number as well as to the margin in the quarter. I will get back to that through the presentation. On the market side, I would say the markets overall remain soft and demand remained weak. I would also say that due to the micro -- macroeconomics and [indiscernible], it's very difficult to assess and this is largely, as we saw with the previous quarterly report. On the positive note, I would say that we saw the demand improving the quarter. So we started -- the year started relatively slow, but month by month, the demand improved through the quarter, so March was better than January. And I would say, very positive after a few bleak years on the warehousing side that we now start to see activity that we had in the second half of last year turning into orders, particularly in Europe and North America. Also, we're now seeing the automotive challenges that we have mainly in Europe and Asia, and this now impacted Troax Group in the first quarter this year as well. So all in all, our order intake grew by 18%, and our total sales grew by 6%. If I move over to the EBITA and our profitability. Our profitability came in at 10.1% adjusted EBITA margin. And here, the main drivers for this is our low organic volume, but also the ramp-up challenges that we've had both in North America as well as in Sweden after the move of our shelving facility from Poland to Sweden. I'm very happy to see that our gross margin came back and was in line with last year, and it's also a sequential improvement versus the fourth quarter. We did have increased sales and marketing cost. But on this side, I would say these -- all of that stems from our added businesses and acquisitions. And we have now started to identify additional cost synergies as we now move into the -- move through and into the acquisition integration processes along the year. On the operational side, there are many moving parts in the group. So the North American factory transfer is in its most intense phase with the move commissioning new equipment, training teams, et cetera. So we're very busy with this move for the time being, both in the first quarter and going into the second quarter. We also, as part of this process of ramping up the new facility, we started the year relatively slow with a variety or a set of issues, but we gradually through the quarter improved our ability to deliver to our customers, which means that we left the first quarter with a good run rate of our deliveries. During the quarter, we have also ramped up our production in Sweden. So the first mesh is off the line, so to speak, after the transition from Poland. So here, we've done a lot of good work, and we reinaugurated our factory during the first quarter. But here, I'd say there is still a bit more on the efficiency side as well as adding volume to this until we're fully up and running and fully where we need and want to be longer term. We have also done a strategic review of our commercial partitioning business with the manufacturing in the U.K. And after this strategic review, we concluded that this is not -- we are not a good owner, and this does not fit the group portfolio, which means that we have closed down this product line and this assortment, and we've also closed the manufacturing of this product line during the quarter. The costs for this were taken during 2025. If I move a little bit more into then the group. I would say it's very clear that the recent -- 3 recent acquisitions that we made during the fourth quarter have strengthened both the portfolio as well as the growth potential. So we concluded and closed the Vichnet or Vich acquisition in January 2026 as planned, and we do see strong solid demand, both for the flexible barrier side as well as for the data center safety solutions, which these 3 acquisitions contribute well with. It's also clear that there are opportunities not only on the sales synergy side and sales side, there are also opportunities to work with cost as well as capital synergies as we move through the integration process. And the contribution of the acquisitions in the fourth quarter were 21% of the group total, so significant contribution, both strategic as well as financially to the group. If I then move a bit more into the transformation activities that we have. As I said, we have ramped up the production unit in [indiscernible] after the transfer from Poland with a promising start. There is more to do on bringing more volume into this business as well as bringing more -- even more efficiency into this. And this is a work that is -- has been going on through Q1, but we'll continue into Q3 and Q4. The commercial partitioning business, as I said, it is continued during the first quarter. The production transfer from Chicago to Portland is progressing high intensity. And in relation to the results and the performance of our North American operations, we have also during the quarter decided to make a leadership change in Americas to secure that we have focused on sales and operational execution and performance. If we then go more into the North American side we will -- on the picture here, you'd see our new North American facility. It's located close to Nashville in Tennessee. It's -- it will start operating and produce the first products planned in May. And we have now, during the first quarter, made sure that our delivery operations are picking and packing operations to support our customers have been -- or has been ramped up. It's a bit more problematic than we first foresaw. But we made good progress during the first quarter, which means that we move into the second quarter at pretty much full pace and where it should be. At the same time, it means that we have not invoiced as much as we should up in the first quarter, and this will then come in the following quarter. The longer-term aim with this is, of course, that we improve our competitiveness. So North America is currently the only place where we're not running fully automatic and fully automatic in our business means more automation, less manual touch points and for sure, a lot more cost efficiency into the manufacturing of our products -- of our mesh products, I should say. And the other reason why this is a very important strategic initiative for us is that we also need to bring higher capacity to our North American operations since we have outgrown our facility in Chicago. Moving over to shelving or racking the footprint optimization. So we are completed with moving our machines and operations from Poland to Sweden, and we've done that to improve the efficiency as well as simplify the offering and make it easier for the customers to pick and choose us. We are ramping this up and we communicated annual savings of the EUR 5 million expected after ramp-up are still valid, and we're on a good way to make that to come to fruition. And on the picture here, you see a picture from the inauguration that we held in the first quarter where the Governor of this region was cutting the ribbon. So I thought that was a nice way to depict a project that were very close or even have managed to finalize. If I then move over to the market side of this. And on the picture, you'd see the market development. And here, we have depicted the organic order intakes of the year-on-year comparison, and we have excluded FX. So in total, we had minus 5% on the organic side, 18% in total, as I said before. If I start from a geographical point of view, Europe, 67% of our geographical exposure. So we have a mixed picture between Northern Europe, which was down significantly driven by the automotive sector directly and indirectly. Very positive to see in the Northern Europe also that we have our warehousing segment growing for the first time in a quite long while. If we then flip to Southern Europe, which was up 10% during the quarter, automotive was also challenged in Southern Park, but also here, warehousing, construction was up. So in total, we were up in southern part of Europe. If we move to what I think is the exclamation point of the quarter is Americas, which is by now the smallest geographical region we have, but very strong order intake, 36% up, driven by both warehousing as well as construction and I'd say also general industry. So I would say it's a solid start of the year in Americas. And also in Americas, I would say that automotive, which is a challenge for us in Europe as well as in APAC. In Americas, automotive is flattish and not really down. Last but not least, in APAC, which is now 21% of our sales, we were down 31% in the quarter. Here, I would like you to note that we had a strong comparable quarter in the first quarter last year. And also here, the decline is driven mainly by China automotive, which after a very busy year last year, is having a slower development. If I then move in to the different elements. So if we look at the order intake, it grew from EUR 69.5 million to EUR 82 million in the quarter. And if we look at the bridge, we had minus 5% of that coming from organic price volume, 25% structure, and we had a negative FX effect of minus 2%, taking us to 18% in total on order intake growth in the quarter. If I move over to sales, which had a slower development on the organic side, we moved from 68.3% to 71.8%. So an uptick of 5% the organic portion of this is minus 14%, mainly driven by our North American shortfall on the invoicing side. but also the fact that we, throughout last year, saw lower order and slower market in Europe. So a combination of lower volumes in Europe as well as ramp-up issues in North America are the key drivers for the minus 14%. Here, we had a structural component from our 3 acquisitions of 20% on the net sales side. And we also here had an exchange rate effect of minus 2% in the quarter. If I flip over to the EBITA development, we came in at 10.1%. And here, I would say that if we start with the gross margin, I think the gross margin in the quarter was fairly strong given the organic volumes. And I think we're in striking distance with our informal target despite the low volumes. I'd also say that our acquisitions contribute well to the overall group gross margin. If we then look to this from a profitability point of view, the lower volumes and the ramp-up issues also put pressure on the EBITA margin. Definitely, the Americas transition add a decline to the performance. And if I look specifically to Americas, we had a several issues in the fourth quarter, and we reported some 300 bps in the fourth quarter due to operational issues, transfer plus price. This gap has now shrunk to roughly 150 bps instead of the 300. So we're trending in the right direction in the first quarter. Given the low organic sales volumes, the sales and admin costs are relatively high in relation to net sales, but it's pleasing to see that the underlying organic SG&A as part of this is now coming down and declining as per the savings projects that we initiated as well as concluded during the last year. If I move to operating cash flow, we had an operating free cash flow of EUR 4.5 million in the quarter. First quarter for us is usually a seasonally weak quarter for different reasons driving this downwards is the U.S. situation where we add some more working capital in terms of inventory to be able to complete the move. And I'd also say that the structural component also runs at a relatively higher working capital. So this is something that we are planning and working on to getting more in line with where the group has been historically on the structural side of this with EUR 4.5 million of free operating cash flow in the quarter. Moving over to the net debt development. And here, we came in at 2.7 for the quarter and the net debt increased as a consequence of the 3 acquisitions we made during the fourth quarter at the same time as we have our rolling EBITDA measure coming down as the business shrunk last year. So both these 2 things contribute to the 2.7 performance in the first quarter. Our target remains to be below 2.5 over time on this one. And if I then try to conclude the financials for the first quarter order intake sales, adjusted EBITDA and net debt to EBITDA, I've already gone through. On the EPS adjusted, we came in at $0.07 versus $0.010 in the comparable quarter. If I then and with looking ahead, I think I'd like to reiterate that the market conditions remain uncertain. I do think we saw some green leads during the first quarter. And we are actively working with preparing to adopt whether this will now take off or whether we will continue to be in a more challenging situation. So we're actually to prepare and adopt for either scenario. I think our strategy for profitable growth is unchanged. We are keeping the course. And I think there -- it's a good proof point to look at the order intake in the quarter, looking at it from a total point of view. I also think it's good to see our broader portfolio focused on safety. I think that through the acquisitions it's good to see strong demand, both for the -- on the flexible barrier side as well as the data center safety solutions that we got included from the acquisition of Vichnet. So very good start and strong solid demand on those. We are seeing the optimized factory structure starting to come through. We are seeing this in Europe, and we will, in the not-too-distant future, also see the benefits of the factory move in North America coming through as well during the second half of the year. And we are continuing with our decentralized operation and continue to work on our processes and our tools to make sure that we are well positioned now and we're also well positioned to grow when the market turns. So with that, I would like to conclude the presentation part of this call, and we will now move into Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] And I see the first hand from Jonny Jin at SEB.

I hope you can hear me. I have a couple of questions. Starting with the invoicing. We touched upon this, but the organic conversion seems to be on the low side here in the quarter. I know you mentioned the ramp-up effect in the U.S. and the closure of business in the U.K. as such. But could you maybe elaborate the effect of this, respectively, please? And what's the effect of the delays in delivery in the U.S., for instance, in the quarter?

Yes. So in the U.S., we moved the [indiscernible] from Chicago to Nashville. We moved that over the Christmas season. And when we were planning to start ramping up, it takes some time to ramp up. The original plan was to take the backlog that we've built up during the first half of the quarter and kind of gained that back already in the quarter. Now we realized that we had some more ramp-up challenges than what we first anticipated. So the impact on the sales side is somewhere between EUR 1.5 million to EUR 2 million in the quarter. And just to be clear on that, I think this is not lost sales in that sense. It's a timing and sequencing effect. So as we have now ramped up our delivery capabilities, we will step by step eat that excess backlog back.

Okay. EUR 1 million to EUR 2 million, that's in the U.S.? And what was the effect from the closure of U.K.?

It's roughly EUR 1 million too in the quarter.

Okay. That's clear. And what was the annualized sales of the U.K. business here, which you now close down?

It's roughly EUR 10 million.

Okay. That's clear. Perfect. Then I want to move to the contribution from M&A. You mentioned it already, but it seems stronger than expected in the quarter. So maybe you could elaborate what is driving this strength from M&A? Are there any timing or such from the acquisitions you made? Or is this a fair picture of the underlying performance of those acquisitions?

I think it's fair to say that the demand for both [indiscernible] data centers and and barriers is robust. I don't think there is anything in the quarter here that stands out in a very positive way or in a very negative way. So I think it's a fair reflection of the Q1 outcome, you could say. So -- well, I will probably take this to the bank and not put sugar or salt to it, so to speak.

Okay. Okay. Interesting. And then just one on the OpEx cost side. I know you touched upon this also, but it seems to be on the higher side, even if we adjust for the one-offs, so is there something special that happened on the operating expense side in this quarter? Or would you say that this is sort of the expected fair run rate we could expect for the coming quarter as well on the operating expense side?

Yes, I do think we are still on the high side. We plan to conclude 1 phase of our digitalization project already back late to 2025. This is -- this has shown or proven to be more complicated than what we thought, which means that we're also carrying costs for this project in the first quarter here as well. And we will continue to carry some of these costs also into the second quarter and aim for finalization on this. I want to say this -- the work to put some key digital tools here are also key to be able to make more cost savings on the SG&A side going forward and as the next step. So we're still carrying a bit of extra weight comparing to the original plan here in the first quarter.

Did you try to quantify the extra rate a little bit closer?

Now we're talking a few hundred thousand euros.

Okay. That's fair. And just one final on outlook and demand. I know you mentioned to report some signs of improvement at the end of the quarter, and you talked about the pickup momentum throughout the quarter, I think as well. So how should we interpret it is? Are you seeing better orders already now at the start of Q2? Or is this -- what are you basing those comments on?

Yes. No, I think we saw a gradual improvement throughout quarter 1, and we haven't seen anything beginning of April, that's different to the end of quarter 1. So that would be one reflection from my end. The second reflection, I think, is also if we look at the composition of that order intake, we've had a couple of really tough years on the warehousing side, '22, '23 -- sorry, '23, '24 and '25 and we do see some things starting to move here. We had more activity in the second half of last year. We think we see we have more order intake in that segment now in the first quarter, and that's good news, of course, for us since this is the largest segment for us.

Yes, I understand. Just one final [indiscernible] so a lot of questions. But just in the North America, you mentioned strong order momentum there. And I think you said that also it's driven by warehouse but also general industry. There have been some other companies here reporting stating that industrial CapEx is a little bit worse here, sentiment after the Middle East crisis and such. So I mean, is this something you also mentioned or seen? Or is there a few customers to drive this momentum? Or what is driving that, would you say?

Yes, I would say I think on the warehousing side, Q1 was more robust in a sense that we had a more broad-based you could say, activity as well as orders. On the general side, I think it's likely more our customer mix than something that is broad-based in describing the market. [indiscernible] is next.

Martin. I hope you can hear me as well.

Loud and clear.

Perfect. So my first question is just if you could give us some details on the price component in the order intake if you have for the whole group? Or if you could give us some details per region?

Yes. Overall, we have a -- you can look at it as Europe and Asia, fairly stable as price component in the order intake. And in the U.S., we're looking at the double-digit number to compensate for material transportation, et cetera. So if you weigh that together, you'll get a few percentage points on the order intake.

Okay. Perfect. And then just going back to the M&A contribution, as stated by previously, it's very solid. We get some assessment of how much of the invoicing orders that are specifically from Vichnet.

Yes. So Vichnet would be a little bit north of between 50% and 60%.

Okay. So then just going into -- because as it has a Chinese exposure, it's rather fair to maybe assume that it has a different kind of seasonality than the remaining parts of Troax. So just how should we think about business activity going into [indiscernible] quarter and the remaining parts. And maybe also, if we can go into the details on how the acquisitions affected the operating margin? You said that they had positive contribution on the gross margin. But how does it look on the operating margin as well?

Yes. So if we start with the seasonality question and I would think, obviously, on -- with Vichnet, we have a lot more of that business is an APAC business. So that follows more the Chinese annual cycle, if you will. And that, at least from how we used to know it is Q1 is usually a little weaker than the other quarters. If we look at Europe as the other -- at the other end of the scale, the pattern is slightly different. So usually, the first quarter in APAC is the weakest one from a volume and profitability point of view. I think we probably need a few more quarters under the belt with Vichnet to see whether the business is performing or behaving just like that. But I think it it's probably a fair assumption to say that it will behave like we know other APAC businesses or Chinese businesses. On the operating margin side, it's true that our acquisitions are stronger in relative terms on the gross margin side. At the same time, all these 3 are growth cases, which means that the proportional SG&A might still be on the high side. But in the specific quarter, the structural component was over average comparing to the group. So it's been accretive, if you will.

Okay. Perfect. And maybe you could give us some details on how the growth momentum, both from -- for Vichnet but also your own data center exposure?

Yes. No, I'm happy to do that. And I think it's been -- we had some good progress, and we've had some good progress the last couple of years. We are relatively new into this. I think the data center business both on racks as well as on [indiscernible] is 1 of the growth drivers for Vich. So I think the development and momentum in this business is good, and it's good for our -- in our structural part, and it's also quite good on the organic side. So from that point of view, it's a good growth potential and also a growth driver, even though it's from a low base still.

Okay. Perfect. And just thinking about the backlog then as you have in the U.S. as you seem to be quite confident that the delivery issues are fixed into Q2. Should we be able to to see sort of full delivery on the backlog? Or should this maybe be viewed as gradually throughout the second and the third quarter?

Yes, I think we should be delivering what the customers have ordered from us. And we will eat that backlog mainly in Q2. Perhaps something will then be squeezed and move into Q3. But -- so definitely, we should be able to see that invoicing coming through during the course of the year.

Okay. Perfect. And then just a final one from my side on the warehousing exposure. So the increased activity that you're seeing, is this relating it to sort of base business within like small and midsized order? Or how's activity on larger orders increase as well?

It's a bit of both, I would say. So the pipeline on warehousing is a mix of I think what we haven't seen in the past couple of years has been the large projects. We now see them come back. But I would also say that small, medium as well as midsized is also more active. So I'd say it's in all 3 categories, if you will. Then we go with [indiscernible]

I thought maybe just to start off on sort of the backlog story just for Northern Europe in conjunction with the facility consolidation, are there any backlogs to talk about there, given that you say that hopefully, you how to direct the facility towards more volumes, et cetera.

There was a bit of backlog that we decided not to produce in Poland and start ramping up in Sweden. So there is a bit of backlog from that. But I wouldn't say we carry a big backlog in this. So this is win the orders and produce it. And I would say this, hence, we have a lower invoicing that what you could say is normalized in this business, and this impacted Q1 slightly as well.

No. That's perfect. And then just thinking about if you could reason a bit on sort of the margin and the cost. I mean how should we think sequential from Q1 into Q2 in terms of what type of cost will ease? I mean you will close down if you just take North America, you're likely to close down and you have less personnel there, you will have eventually dual rents, et cetera, but are there anything to do in other areas that we are -- that are worth highlighting?

I think you nailed the 2 big ones. For sure, we are having our most intense months here now. So we've had a very intense quarter 1. We'll continue to drive a very intense work to get not only the logistics in North America, but also the machinery and the equipment. And at one point, we can move from running a dual operation, which we have currently in the U.S. into one more optimal and that will happen during the second half of the second quarter. And of course, with that, some of the double costs will naturally decrease as our employees in Chicago will not have a factory to come to in that sense. So that will be the main -- I would say, the main difference here in the second quarter.

Yes. Okay. Perfect. That's great. And then just on your comments in the report regarding cost synergies in terms of the acquisitions, are these material? And how should we think about the timing, best guess, I guess?

I think I'll probably have to get back on this topic with the second quarter report. We're one quarter into the integration work, but I think just first glance it's -- there are a few areas of overlap. Obviously, we can look at the company structure. We can look at admin structures, we can look at how we treat, for example, inventories on the capital side. But I wouldn't dare to quantify how much this is today. But I'll promise you to get back on this when we have a bit more firm view and data on this [indiscernible].

That's fair. And just one last clarifying question just on the commercial positioning here. Did it have any negative impact in the quarter at all?

It has negative impact in, you could say, in 2 ways. The first one is that we obviously stopped taking orders so which means that when you compare organic order intake, you will have an artificial effect of that the order intake is not really measuring this apple-to-apple and you can use the annual figure and [indiscernible], you get a rough idea of what that order intake impact is. The second one is then on the result and sales since we stopped taking orders somewhere late last year, it also means that we have less volume to invoice during the first quarter here. And as we move into the second quarter, when we have discontinued the operation, obviously, you will have that effect as lower order intake and lower sales organically. However, this business was dilutive to the group average, which means that it should also be seen as a positive thing to the group result.

Yes, yes, perfect. But we saw that positive impact from 1st of January, basically.

You will see that impact from the second quarter. Daniel Lindkvist, please go ahead.

So I've had most of my questions answer by this point, but just a few ones from my side. If we look at the time frame in your order book. I mean we've got to use now to a conversion in the upcoming quarter, more or less for quite some time. But so I'm particularly interested in the U.S. order intake and delivers structure for that one? And also on the acquired units in particular.

Yes. If we look at the U.S., we -- in the first quarter, we had a few larger projects. So if you look at usually you convert with a quarter's delay or something, it means that the order intake in the first quarter will have a somewhat longer conversion rate, which then impacts second, third quarter. And if we look at the structural part, there are the business that relates to the data center business also runs at a slightly longer conversion cycle than the, you could say, the bread and butter business that you're used to.

Okay. Cool. And if we just then add the -- how much is left roughly on the backlog from the U.S. now?

Stemming from the move quarter 4 for quarter 1, it's roughly EUR 2 million.

Roughly EUR 2 million. Perfect. And then if we just look at the, I mean, the acquisitions really surprised me in Q1, and it seems like these are bigger operations than we and the market perceived. At the same time, we -- in Q1, we had the Chinese New Year. So one would guess that then the plastic barrier side would have been a stronger put in Q1 and maybe then in the [indiscernible] what are the opposite situation in Q2. Is that a fair assumption? And is there any difference between the gross margins and the plastic barriers and in the Vich just to bring with us going forward.

I think conceptually, you are right with the quarterly sequencing on barriers and on the Vich acquisition. So in theory, you're right. I think we're only one quarter into these acquisitions. So I'd like to be a little careful on that. But conceptually, I'd agree with you, Daniel, on that. On the gross margin side, all 3 acquisitions are delivering what I consider to be healthy gross margins and healthy gross profit. And I think it's also an outcome of the fact that we're delivering solid value to our customers. So it's -- they are all bringing value products to the customers. So they are all accretive to, you could say, group average on the gross margin -- from a gross margin point of view.

Okay. So Vich is also a higher gross margin business than than the average?

Yes.

Cool. And then just on the automotive side, I mean, you delivered on all projects for some time, but the market has in general been weak? Or should we read that the market has become weaker now. So what's the split between the projects you've had and delivered on and the market becoming weaker or the opposite?

Yes. I think what we are now experiencing at our end is we are pretty late into the cycle. Obviously, a lot of the carmakers and other suppliers to the car industry might have suffered a bit earlier than we have. I think on the order intake side, we're now seeing kind of the reality of where automotive is. So from that point of view, this is one of the first quarters where we're not filling the pipeline with larger new projects. So I wouldn't say necessarily that the market might have gone a lot worse in Q1 versus Q4. But I think now it appears at our end, what that looks like in terms of investment into our product niches.

Okay. Cool. And then on the gross margin side, are there any effects from the cost savings from [indiscernible] that are visible in Q1? Or should we expect those going forward in conjunction with higher volumes?

If we look at the fixed costs that we have taken out of Poland, they are part of this. And they are also visible in the result. However, it's not to the full full swing yet since the volumes are not completely ramped up. And so obviously, this is also a volume gain. So some of those run rate savings will also come with more volume and that impact is not seen yet in the first quarter that's still to come, but we're on a good way to get there.

Perfect. And then just finally, I mean, where many out there that discussed this in terms of a company that should have a normalization or getting closer to it by 2027. So just from your side, is there anything that contradicts this report or what from what you see now with things going on?

It's very difficult to predict the future I've learned. So I think the big defining parameter here will be what happens in the Middle East. If this gets prolonged, and whether the world economy gets dragged into something that is slower for longer, but I guess my crystal ball on this is just as clear or as cloudy as yours. So I'm not sure I would -- I'd like to make any statements on this one. But nothing, I would say, from the first quarter specifically, contradicts you could say your narrative.

Guessing from my side, you have an insight in the projects and the projects that are postponed and so on and the project sizes that we're discussing. And in that sense...

To date, we have seen very little of any change in that comparing to how we've been trending the last 3 to 6 months depending on segment. Okay. I don't see any more hands in the air, which means that we will bring this interim presentation and earnings call to an end. So thanks a lot, everyone, for listening in. And if I don't see you before, I'll see you in a quarter time. Thank you, and bye-bye.