Tube Investments of India Limited (TIINDIA.NS) Q1 FY2026 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

This conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anupam Gupta from IIFL Capital. Over to you, sir.

Yes. Thanks, Inba, and welcome, everyone, to the first quarter FY '26 Results Conference Call for Tube Investments of India. From the management, we have Mr. [indiscernible], Executive Chairman for TI India; Mr. [indiscernible], Vice Chairman; Mr. Mukesh Ahuja, Managing Director for TI; Mr. Meyyappan, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Shivdeep Singh Jammu, represented the Division Head for TPI; Mr. Sivakumar, Division Head for Metal Form Products business; Mr. Rajagopal, adoption Head for the Cycles business. We have Mr. Jalaj Gupta, CEO for TICMPL; and Mr. Govindarajan, CEO of 3xper Innoventure. To start off, I'll hand it over to the management for the opening remarks. Post which, we'll have a Q&A. Over to you, sir.

Yes. Good morning, everybody. The Board of Directors of Tube Investments of India Limited met on Friday and approved the financial results for quarter ended 30th June 2025. And just maybe give a glimpse of stand-alone results for the quarter. Revenue in Q1 was at INR 2,007 crores compared with the INR 1,960 crores of same period previous year. EBITDA was at INR 222 crores as against INR 208 crores in the same period previous year. ROIC at 39% for the quarter ended 30th June 2020 compared with in the previous year for the same period. Free cash flow for the quarter was INR 82 crores, and I'll give idea about the various businesses, Engineering division. Revenue for the quarter was INR 1,298 crores compared with the INR 165 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Profit before interest and tax for the quarter was INR 153 crores against INR 157 crores in the corresponding quarter for the previous year. Metal foam products, the revenue for the quarter was INR 366 crore compared with the INR 358 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Profit before interest and tax for the quarter was INR 37 crores against in corresponding quarter of the previous year. Coming to the Mobility division. Revenue for the quarter was INR 198 crores compared with INR 181 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Profit before interest and tax for the quarter was INR 7 crores against the profit of INR 2 crore in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Others, the revenue for the quarter was INR 236 crores compared with INR 247 crores in the previous year. Profit before interest and tax for the quarter was at INR 17 crores against INR 15 crores in the previous quarter of the previous year. Coming to the consolidated results. TI consoled revenue for the quarter was INR 5,309 crores against INR 4,578 crore in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. The profit before share of profit term associate and joint venture, exceptional item and tax, for the quarter was INR 449 crores against INR 470 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. CG Power Industrial Solutions is a subsidiary of TI, where we hold 58% stake, registered a consoled revenue INR 2,878 crores during the quarter against INR 2,228 crores in the previous quarter of the previous year. Profit before the tax for the quarter was INR 364 crore against INR 336 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Shanti GES Limited, a subsidiary in the GES business in which company holds 70.46% stake, registered a revenue of INR 135 crores against the quarter, against INR 139 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Profit before tax for the quarter was at INR 31 crores as against INR 139 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Thanks, and happy to take questions from the investors community.

[Operator Instructions] We will take the first question from Rajat Agarwal from Negri Investment Managers. Mr. Agarwal, your audio is muted. Could you please unmute and ask your question.

Am I audible?

Yes, sir.

I have a few questions related to the e-truck and the electric vehicle division. Now if I were to look at the EBIT of electric vehicles, it has increased compared to Q1 and Q4 as well. So which particular division has the losses increased. And if you can share the volume for 3-wheelers SCV and truck for this quarter?

So we don't give divisional level within the TI.

Hello?

Management team, we are unable to hear you. Ladies and gentlemen, we request you to please remain connected. Sorry to interrupt, management team maybe request you to repeat the response because we couldn't hear you for a few seconds.

Yes. Is it clear now?

It's better, sir. You may -- could you please repeat the response?

So we said kind of we don't give EBIT level broken down into the 4 parts of TIP mobility. So we just give it at an aggregate level. On the specific numbers, Jalaj is going to give the details.

Yes, the numbers for quarter 1 were 1,791, which included 45 trucks, 1668, 3-wheelers, 44 small commercial vehicles and 34 number of tractors.

Right. Just continuing on the truck, there is a PLI which was announced by the government recently. So do we stand to benefit from it, and if I were to look at the FY '25 cost of goods sold for eTruck division, the gross margin was almost 0. So what's the plan here? How do we propose to increase the gross margin, especially in light of the increasing competition? And if indigenization is 1 of the strategies, then do we have internal targets to reach a certain level of indigenization by end of FY '26 or FY '27.

So on the PME drive, which was your first question, the scheme has been announced and it calls for -- there are various eligibility criteria in terms of various components which have been prescribed by the government and indinization at various level of those particular component towards which we are working, and we are very, very confident that in quarter 2, we will be applying for the eligibility of the same. And I think by the time we meet for the next investor call, we -- our application would be underway for the qualification under PME trial. Although scheme does have its own challenges in terms of certificate of deposits, which makes the customer eligible for the same. So it has its own set of challenges also. But as far as our product qualification is concerned, we are on our way, and hopefully, in quarter 2, we will be there.

And so in terms of gross margins, obviously, kind of the -- when we look at the product, the 2 things that we're focused on is on cost reduction. Some of that is through indigenization, but also on our overall cost reduction on the truck. And the second element is that basically, as our volumes pick up, that also helps the cost out of the whole process, so that will help us as well. So those are the 2 focuses there, which will continue.

[Operator Instructions] We now take our next question from Mr. Anupam Gupta of IIFL.

So firstly, on the core business, what was the sort of volume growth that we saw for the engineering segment and the metal foam product business in this quarter? And let's say, have you seen the entire steel price movement passed on fully? Or do we still have further downside from the possible from the steel prices in the next few quarters?

Thanks, Anupam. In terms of the volume growth, Engineering division, it is around 10%. And in the Metal Formed division, it is about 3% to 4%. And coming to your question on the steel prices, as you're already aware, we have mentioned in various calls, it takes about 1 or 2 quarters lag, so -- which we'll be able to recover fully in coming quarter or next quarter. It will be full recovery will happen from the customers.

Anupam, I think your question was whether it be downside from the steel prices, that's not downside.

No, what I referred to was -- so basically, our revenue growth appears low because steel prices are the fudge on. So that's what I was referring to in terms of downsides on the reported revenue growth. That's the question.

Okay. Yes, yes. You are right.

Yes. And secondly, just following on there. So ideally, given that these prices are being passed on, ideally, our margins optically should look higher in both the segments, but we are not at least seeing that in the reported number. So what's keeping the margins not allowing them to expand effectively?

So Anupam, as I said earlier, the steel price increase is already factored in the financials, but a recovery from the customers is yet to happen, which will be happening in current 2 quarter and the next quarter. So after that, margins will look like what we used to maintain earlier.

Okay. Understood. So the next question is on the mobility business cycles business. Basically, this quarter, we saw sort of a revival after a lot of quarters of weak performance, both in terms of growth as well as margin. So what are you seeing there? And anything that can be, let's say, extrapolated to being sustainable? Or is it just a spike?

So Anupam, as you are aware, with the quarter 1 is generally when the schools oncologies are opening it. It is a good quarter always for Mobility division and which we fully participated in the growth, rather growth maybe after a long time, growth is very, very positive for Mobility division. Other ways, focus on other like we are into e-bike now and which is going full hog and the focus on the fitness as well as spare part business is also contributing to the growth of Mobility division.

Okay. Okay. Understand. And sir, 1 last question on the EV business. So what we have seen is clearly a significant competition, which has come in, and we have seen our volumes at least in the 3-wheeler side of it. being very weak in the last 4, 5 months. So what sort of levers are there, which can help us reverse this sort of decline which you are seeing especially in terms of, let's say, a product refresh, which you had talked about in the past, so what's the plan for the 3-wheeler side of it where competition is very intense.

Yes. Thanks, Anupam. You are right. There is increased competition coming in, in the 3-wheeler business. There are 3, 4 levers that we are planning to work on. One is, as you rightly said, the refresh model, which is we are well on our way and quarter 2, we'll see the launch of the same. So that is one. Second is that on new subsegment seems to have emerged which is on the higher battery pack side of it, which is offering higher range to the end customer. So very clearly, 3 subsegments are emerging. One is lower around 9-kilowatt battery Second is about 10, 10 to 11-kilowatt battery and third 1 is about 12 to 13-kilowatt battery. In the previous call, if you recall, we talked about us evaluating which are the other subsegments we will play. As of now, we play in the 10-kilowatt segment. So we are also contemplating getting into some of the other subsegment of the passenger auto. So that's the second lever. And should we decide to do that, that will happen somewhere in maybe Q4 or so. So that's the second lever. Third is that to improve our volumes, we are also planning an entry into the other segment, which is the L5N, which is the cargo segment. In fact, the product at select dealerships has been introduced in the market, and Q2 will see those volumes also coming in. And we are actively evaluating our entry into the ERIC segment, which is the L3 segment. with somewhere in Q3 of this year. So -- and last but not the least, there is a full fledged front-end plan in terms of number of dealerships, our own manpower and how do we scale up. So that plan is in place. So these are the 4, 5 lever, which will be played to increase our volumes.

[Operator Instructions] We take the next question from Gnanasundaram S from Avendus Spark.

My first question is with regards to the E business again is that we had indicated that we are looking for operational breakeven in the 3-wheeler passenger segment as well as in terms of HCV by the end of the year. Going by what first quarter is delivered are in line for that particular target.

It's unlikely to happen. The -- I think it's been -- so from our perspective, I think kind of we've seen.

Management team, we cannot hear you right now. We've lost your audio. Ladies and gentlemen, we request you to please remain connected while we check the connection for the management team.

I don't know when we dropped here.

Yes, sir. Now we can hear you. So you'll have to repeat the response again, Sir.

So Nana, I said that we -- it doesn't look like we will hit operational breakeven this year. And that's been predominantly based on our volumes not getting to the estimates that we thought that we could basically deliver. And so at this stage, right? And I don't -- I mean like this is kind of a very dynamic market. At this stage, I would say that -- though we did give that guidance, I don't believe we will hit it.

Sir, just a continuation to that. Do you think there is any macro level trigger that is required for us to really hit the volumes that we've been targeting? Or do you think internally, what we are doing should get us to the numbers?

No. So there are 2 things, right? In terms of macro level, obviously, kind of 1 of the things has been that the government policy has not been kind of -- I mean, I would just say that kind of it's -- we expected that we would have fame or whatever. It was kind of after fame 1. And obviously, that has not played out, right, which is basically the -- so now the thinking is different across kind of whether -- how they should be subsidized. So that obviously has kind of a big factor from a macro perspective that plays into this. But otherwise, I think the good thing is because now it's clear that we're not getting that. It's just increasing our impetus and all the other actions we need to take. Those are internal actions, and we need to kind of take them so it's good that is basically pushing us both on the cost focus and what else we need to do to basically pickup adoption -- I mean, adoption in trucks and market share in 3-wheelers. So that's what our focus is moving to now.

Fair enough. One other 1 is in terms of my favorite always is what has been -- or how is your capital allocation strategy now has it changed in terms of the opportunity you're seeing in terms of market, something on the electronic side or -- last time we briefly hinted that we might invest more into TI Medical. So where are you on that aspect? And what are we going to with the cash flow generating over this [indiscernible]?

So Nana, obviously, kind of the first thing is that we're doubling down on these kind of 3 businesses, right, which is basically the TI Mobility. TI Medical and the CDMO 3 export business, right? So that's basically the 3 areas that we've basically taken and we have to show that it's going to be -- show that we can basically deliver on those. So that is going to be -- so if you take in terms of sequencing, we've got kind of the requirements of the core business, then we've got doubling down on these 3 businesses. And then the next set, like we've articulated is that if we grow into anything now, it will be only on the back of partnerships that basically allow us to have a to ensure that basically, there's a quicker go-to-market opportunity and a more identified kind of market to go to, right? So I'd say these are the 3 stacks as [indiscernible].

No. But has there been a change in strategy? Because I remember you indicating that TICMPL, there wouldn't be a more funding needed right now. But now we're saying you're going to double down on TICMPL are we going to fund more of KCP going forward?

So right now, obviously, kind of TICMPL is fine and doesn't have cash needs. All I'm saying is that we have to first -- if your question is kind of, are we going to allocate towards kind of newer areas. I'm saying the newer areas are basically. So first off, I'm saying the first focus is to ensure that we are successful in these 3 areas. After that, the -- if we look at any areas, it will be based on partnerships that basically give us the confidence that there's a quicker path to profitability in the new segments we get into.

Right. Well, [indiscernible]. Now 1 last 1 is that there have been media news that have been coming up about regarding a family issue within the Murugappa Group. Would you like to say anything to the minority shareholders of Tube in terms of how this could affect the business?

No, I don't think there's anything to discuss on that perspective, right, which is like -- I mean, I think broadly, the point is that we don't first anyway, discuss any of the family issues in public domain. Whatever comes out in media has come out, right? And there -- I don't think there's anything more to articulate about that.

Again, we asked me I'm sure that minority shareholders would know where we impact it because of the ownership change or anything of that, sir.

So Nana, again, I don't think that the group has ever taken action that affects 1 group of shareholders negatively. It is not in kind of our redo the way we work with things at all. So I can't see a issue in kind of -- I cannot see a situation where we would take actions that would harm 1 group of shareholders in a process.

Perfect sir. This is something that I want articulated. But just on the market together from you.

Our next question is from Salil Desai of Marcellus Investment Managers.

My question 2 of them. So first was on this Eurosatory plans. And now given that the double down on EVs as 1 of the 3 segments, but we're already kind of struggling with the macro net policy not supportive, competition increasing market share, not growing in 3-wheeler why distract yourself and get into a space which is more crowded and more competitive, very little product differentiation. So how are you thinking of the Eurasia business would love to hear your thoughts.

Yes. So there are certain markets, especially North and East. If you look at where we already have a network in place, and we plan to have increased our further network in those particular areas, which are very strong markets for [indiscernible]. So in terms of our network strategy, we see a clear sync as far as that particular category is concerned. That is number one. Number two, increasingly, government is also making the regulation stringent when it comes to that particular product category in terms of safety and some of the other norms, where we feel could be a differentiator between unorganized player versus players like us and some of the other competition. That is number two. Number three, we are also seeing the migration and the upgradation of the industry happening from a typical lead-acid battery upwards. So that's the other. So a combination of all these 3 things, we see our market over there. Will we be an absolute mass player in that particular segment? The answer may be no. We will continue to maintain our premium positioning the way we have been doing in terms of 3-wheeler auto and that's the plan. That is going to give us incremental volumes and also will be another line of revenue generation for our dealerships in context of the deletive viability and also very, very applicable for North and East specific as markets.

I see. The second question is when we go out in the market and get some feedback from users, then for the 3-wheeler we consistently are told that it's a great product and very different from what competition has. But translation of that into market share gains, there seems to be some gap there. So where do you think you might be missing out versus what some of your larger competitors are doing who have been kind of traditionally players for a long time in the ICE side of 3 wheelers.

So you are right. The observation is right that from a product acceptance from a customer point of view. From that perspective, we should have -- the volume should have scaled much higher than as compared to what the volumes have been. So 2, 3 challenges which we are facing in the market, of course, is an established network of the competition, which is the established ICE network versus the network which we are trying to establish that is number one, especially in the -- yes. So that's number one. But we are planning to increase our network and scale up our -- so for example, we are now 9 dealers. Our plan is to be about 125 dealerships by the end of this year so that our volumes increase. That is number one. Number two, this particular segment has seen a lot of product evolution. As I was saying in response to the previous question about lower battery pack and a higher battery pack. So we are also planning to spruce off our existing product which was a product -- a segment leader when we launched it and over a period of in the competition quarter. We are not trying to -- we will upgrade our product, and we'll be launching the upgraded product in quarter 2 and also enter into the other subsegments. The third 1 has been our local tie-ups with the financials, et cetera, where which again seems to be 1 area which we have to work on and which we are working towards to increase the sale of our vehicles. So these are 2, 3 things that we are planning.

So Salil, you're right. And so basically, what we're doing is getting much more aggressive in terms of go-to-market now, right? And so obviously, I mean -- and I think that I do believe that this is going to start yielding results, right? So that's what I'm confident.

Great. Great. And last question was, this was a kind of a follow-up to, I think, 1 of the first questions asked on gross margins at IP and tech. Now I understand that operating margins will improve as volumes increase. But on the gross profit basis, what was F '25 all about in a sense that could you not get enough pricing for the cost of raw materials? Or was it competitive discounted volumes or something like that? What would have been the reasons for low gross margins?

Okay. See, from a gross margin perspective, I think there are 2 things, right? One is, as our volumes go up, our capability to buy components and aggregates a kind of at better prices is kind of a huge driver for us, rig. And so that, I think, is the situation where in Salil basically, as volumes go up, aggregate costs and component costs will start coming down. And then the second part, obviously, is that we're also working on the electronics side, to bring down the components of each of the -- which is also significant, right, as a portion of the overall buyer of all the components there. And then the third part, of course, is battery, where as we start packing our batteries here, which will happen towards the end of this year, then that will also bring down prices more. Cost more.

Our next question is from Vipul Kumar from Sumangal Investments.

Sir, would you repeat all the electric vehicle side figures? And can you give the competitive figures for the last quarter as well? And in view of lower volumes, should we expect a higher -- substantially higher losses in this division this year?

So in terms of losses right now, we won't kind of share whether it will be significantly higher or not. But in terms of the numbers, you want the quarterly -- okay, can just repeat it. It will be there, the transcript anyway.

Yes. So the big trucks -- so I'll first take the quarter 1 number and then state the quarter 4 of last year. So big trucks were 45 versus 3-wheeler were 1,668 versus 1,662. Small commercial vehicle were 44 versus 4 and Tractor were 34 versus 2. In terms of -- yes.

Sorry, please continue, sir.

No, no, no. That's fine. In terms of your query, I mean this financial year, the volumes are targeted and definitely will be higher as compared to the previous year.

Our next question is a follow-up from Rajita Agarwal of Nalge Investment Managers.

Just a clarification. You mentioned the battery packaging plant. This is the same plant in Manesar, right, which will operationalize by end of FY '26?

Yes, that's correct.

Okay. And if you can provide quick updates on the Nasdaq plant, has it tried to contribute revenues. There was a reference to TI Medical's green fleet plant in Noida. Any other update that you can share on TI Medical or CDM or if there are any orders you received during this quarter? Especially -- sorry, sorry, again, especially on the export side of TI Medical.

So I take 1 by 1. CRS Nasik plant has already started commercial production. And Q1, maybe in terms of taking approvals from the customers, I'll say a majority of the customers has given the approval and now we are in the ramp-up phase. And we expect by same period in the next 3 years, we'll be fully able to utilize the capacity. Coming to TI medical exports order. Happy to share. There is a good maybe because all the CE certification of the majority of the country work is almost over. However, there are a few countries which are still awaited to get the CE certification. But what our CE certification is over, with that, we are -- Q2, we are fully booked with the export orders. and greenfield plant. We have yet to take decision. We are studying it, and we will come back to investor commodity whenever we decide on that particular piece. CDMO, Govin, would like to take?

Yes. On the manufacturing facility, we've got the environment clearance for the commercial facility as far as the semi-commercial plant is concerned, at the juncture, they are doing addition batches for the first DM, which is likely to come up in the next 2 quarters.

Our next question is from Avishai Ghosh from DSP Mutual Fund. Mr. Abhishek, please go ahead with your question. There seems to be no response from this connection. If he joins back, we will unmute his connection. In the meanwhile, we'll move to our next participant. That's Markan Gore of Axis Capital.

This is Nishit from Axis Capital. Sir, I have basically 1 fundamental question on EVs. We are trying to discuss this segment by entering and trying to take market share away from incumbents, right? So just wanted to understand how are you thinking in terms of our right to win in this business. Just to elaborate it a little bit further. Initially, when we entered the business, incumbents may not present, so we had some head start. But now we are seeing incumbents kind of coming into this business. and incumbents will have inherent advantage in terms of cost, distribution brand, right? So ideally, we are left with only technology and innovation in terms of disrupting the segment. And here also, we have not yet started too much in terms of developing products on our own or even in the 3-wheeler segment, we are trying to catch up in terms of offering products, which others have already offered, right? Because obviously, incumbents will have more resources, which we will always lag, right? So just wanted to understand, top-down how do you think what will customer get if they buy TI EV products versus the well-established players for which they have been buying for many, many years now.

Nishit, I think kind of even when we talked about even on this call, I don't know, you heard it when people are talking about the 3-wheeler. The general view on the product is that the product is far more innovative than what is there in the market today, right, because it's more spacious, it's more comfortable has got higher power because in a lot of situations, what we're seeing is the incumbent models are the existing ICE model that's been transformed. I mean, just been kind of electrified, if I were to call it that, right? And so we do believe that there is going to be enough room for product in differentiation and innovation in all the segments we're going to, right? Even if you see the small commercial vehicle. The reviews we've got on our product are that it is significantly differentiated and very innovative. Even from a performance perspective, it's rated much higher than -- in terms of all of the consumer studies we've done thus far. It's rated as a real leader in its space. So I do believe that new entrants have the opportunity to look at a space very differently from the incumbents, and that's what gives us the opportunity.

[Operator Instructions] We take the next question from Anupam Gupta from IIFL.

A couple of questions. So just following up on the previous question on the liability. So you said the product differentiation has been obviously a key strategy. Do you think that it should be augmented by a much faster expansion of the distribution because maybe the lag which happens in terms of distribution expansion allows the competition to come in with a similar product or a better pricing. So do you think that part is lagging and can be both upon that in a much better way than what is happening at this point of time?

Yes. So I mean, I think it's a good question. So I think the answer Anupam will be different for different verticals. This is something we're contemplating for the 3-wheeler vertical or how aggressive we go. If you take the truck vertical, basically, that is not using because that's all basically it's not using distribution channels. So it's a direct go-to-market product. And -- but I think definitely, your point is very relevant on 3-wheelers and it's something that we're basically internally discussing. Small commercial vehicle is a mix right now, and we're seeing very good traction on that product. So I would say that -- but it's an answer that's vertical-specific, Anupam.

Sure. Okay. And 1 more question on the truck side of it. So as of now, given the sort of range, which it offers, it is sort of a point-to-point transportation niche segment, which we are seeing traction. And have you seen traction in the fleet side of it for so far? Or is it mostly the corporate side, which is driving it? And how fast can you, let's say, launch a product which can target the fleet side of operations for truck users?

So Anupam, by the end of this year, definitely, we should have battery swapping available on the truck, and I think that, that is a solution that will then allow for fleets to also start using this, especially if we can start looking at battery swapping infrastructure as well. So I'd say, yes, the target will be by the end of this year that we're able to kind of go after that segment as well.

The next question is from Gnanasundaram S from Avendus Spark.

This question is very specific for Mukesh. I just want to understand as to what's the CapEx that we planned this year for the stand-alone business?

It's about INR 350 crores.

And can you please split it in which division the investments argument?

It will be a combination of Engineering and Metal Formed division.

Okay. I'll take that. And on the Metal Formed side, we were talking about the revenues last time. Has that made any progress on that front?

So like we shared in the previous call, like you're already aware, Hyundai is coming in the Western region. So there our plant in the Pune under commissioning. So we expect that volume to kick in from October.

Right. So my question is very specific on the railway orders that we had spoken about last quarter.

So railway, like what we shared in the previous call, it is spread of about 7 years. And this year, particularly we'll be completing the sample approval and maybe how to sort out the logistics because ultimately, supplies are going to mean Latur. And next year onwards, we will see volumes ramping up for rail.

Our next question is from Niket Shah from Motilal Oswal Asset Management.

I just had 1 question. So on first of July 2025, China has announced an anti-evolution policy, which basically means that a lot of products where there used to be a meaningful cut in prices or a significant competition intensity within China will be streamlined. In that context, if lithium in prices had to move up. Would it be possible for us to take a price increase on our final product and yet protect our margins? Will you think in that kind of situation, there would be headwinds on margins?

I think lithium ion indicated an question, lithium ion starts moving up, everybody will increase prices because it is the largest component of everybody's cost structure. So that would just -- I mean, the pragmatic response to that will be that everybody will increase prices. I don't think anybody can be in a situation where they don't.

Our next question is a follow-up from Rajet Agarwal of Nilgi Investment Managers.

Just a quick question on the models that are under -- that were launched for the eTruck business. Currently, we only have a 55,000 truck to truck, right, sir? There was a plan to launch a 28,000 tipper as well. Is that on road?

No, the 28 is later in our sequencing. The first was after 55-ton a tractor trailer. We've now got -- that was a 6 by 4 and then now we've got a 55.42, and then the next will be a tipper product. So that is the first 3 in the sequencing right now because those are the 3 largest markets.

Our next question is from Gnanasundaram S from Avendus Spark.

Mukesh, I just want to understand as to what is the kind of growth rate that we assume should assume for the stand-alone business, excluding the EV and the rest with the kind of macro situation that you see ahead of us. And then also, in addition to that is that with largely the export component, will we have an impact because of the tariffs from the U.S.? And then what is the outlook on the exports specifically on the standard business.

So thanks for the question. Coming to exports piece. Our next immediate quarter, maybe orders are intact, but you are aware of that you as the way it is becoming uncertain. So for a longer period of time, it is difficult to comment as of now. But going to the guidance for the future, maybe we have said in the previous calls, double-digit growth we are confident. And if exports becomes a little bit of hand with, we have to devise a strategy how to mitigate that, that's how we are working on internally.

And this double-digit growth, we are referring from an EBITDA perspective, assuming certain cost efficiencies also kick in?

Yes. .

Okay. And just in terms of numbers, what would be the current exposure to the U.S. market?

At the TI level, it is about 4%.

Right. And exports as a percentage would be roughly about 13%, 14%?

15%. .

15%. And target 25, are we still sticking to that number?

Very difficult to comment as of now given the circumstances. But if things go as well, that is a target we are still thinking to, but it is uncertain as of now given the macro environment.

Right, sir. So 1 final 1 just on the exports again is that there's been a target that we indicated for FY '25 also. So looking back at the last 2 years, if something did not go right in the exports part of the business. What was it?

So it was basically -- we have done a product development in 1 or 2 categories, which were the newer market. We're supposed to participate. So there was a bit of delay on those things from our end, which has given a bit of delay in that. But on top of that, this environment, which is -- everybody is getting active, whether it is Europe or whether it is U.S., is adding a little bit challenged to that.

As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand over the floor back to the management team for closing comments.

So we thank all our investor partners and nothing to add from our side. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of IIFL Capital Services Limited, that concludes today's conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now click on the Leave icon to exit the meeting. Thank you all for your participation.