Tube Investments of India Limited (TIINDIA.NS) Q3 FY2026 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Tube Investments Q3 FY '26 Earnings Call hosted by IIFL Capital Services Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this call is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Joseph George from IIFL Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Inba. On behalf of IIFL Capital, I welcome you all to the 3Q FY '26 Results Conference Call of Tube Investments of India Limited. From the management, we have with us Mr. M.A.M Arunachalam, Executive Chairman; Mr. Vellayan Subbiah, Vice Chairman; Mr. Mukesh Ahuja, Managing Director; Mr. A.N. Meyyappan, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Shivdeep Singh Jammu, Division Head, TPI; Mr. M. Sivakumar, Division Head, MFPD; Mr. U. Rajagopal, Division Head, TI Cycles. We also have with us Mr. Jalaj Gupta, CEO, TI Clean Mobility; Mr. S. Gopalakrishnan, CFO, TI Clean Mobility; and Mr. N. Govindarajan, CEO, 3xper Innoventure. I will now hand over the call to the management for opening remarks, post which we will have Q&A.

Yes. Thank you, Joseph. The Board of TI met today, and we approved the financial results for the quarter ended December 31, 2025. The Board also declared an interim dividend of INR 2 per share for the financial year 2025-'26. Stand-alone results, revenue for Q3 was at INR 2,152 crores compared to INR 1,910 crores for the same period previous year. The PBT before exceptional items for the quarter was at INR 268 crores compared with INR 212 crores for the same period previous year, a growth of 26%. And ROIC annualized was at 49%, which is compared with 43% for the same period the previous year. Free cash flow for the business was -- for the quarter was at INR 248 crores. In terms of the individual businesses, for the Engineering business, the revenue for the quarter was at INR 1,438 crores compared with INR 1,212 crores in the corresponding quarter. PBIT for the quarter was at INR 196 crores as against INR 156 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Metal Formed revenue was at INR 408 crores compared with INR 400 crores and PBIT was at INR 46 crores compared to INR 40 crores in the corresponding quarter. For our Mobility business, the revenue was at INR 183 crores compared with INR 142 crores and the PBIT for the quarter was at INR 4 crores as against a loss of INR 0.8 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. And for other businesses, our revenue was at INR 214 crores compared to INR 252 crores and PBIT was at INR 19 crores as against INR 11 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. From a consolidated perspective, our consolidated revenue for the quarter was at INR 5,801 crores as against INR 4,812 crores. The profit before share of profit of associate joint venture, exceptional items and tax was at INR 502 crores as against INR 427 crores in the corresponding quarter. CG Power registered a consolidated revenue of INR 3,175 crores for the quarter as against INR 2,516 crores. And again, the profit for the quarter was at INR 420 crores as against INR 335 crores. Shanthi Gears registered a revenue of INR 117 crores as against INR 158 crores and profit was at INR 23 crores as against INR 35 crores in the corresponding quarter. So I'll stop with that. Be happy to turn it over to all of you for Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] We take the first question from Sujit Jain of Bajaj Life.

So this is a question to Vellayan. From the time you took over from the professional manager and then handed over the baton to another professional manager after taking the company to new heights and including introducing TI-2 and TI-3 strategies, we've had some phenomenal successes and as well as some things which would have tried and tested us and without much success so far. Wouldn't it not be an opportunity for you now to consider some consolidation, meaning as much as attack is a weapon, retreat also could be a powerful tool to basically consolidate your time and your attention and your management focus on few things and probably eliminate things which may not be working so that what then remains you can double down on and continue with your TI-2 and TI-3.

Yes. Okay, Sujit, thanks. I think the question is a good one. So actually, if you look at what we have broadly, right, in terms of what's remaining. So I think really the question is more on kind of the adjacencies or kind of the new businesses that we've gotten into, right? So if I were to just kind of break that down, you've got TI Clean Mobility. You've got the medical business, you've got 3xper and obviously, CG is on the other side. But I would say, broadly, these are the businesses -- no, Shanthi and CG, I think, are okay, right? I don't think kind of those kind of fit into your question. I'm assuming, Sujit, that you're asking mainly around these businesses. Is that fair, Sujit?

That's right. So it's about TI-2.

Yes, yes. Yes. So that's what, right? So...

TI-3 has gotten a lot of success without doubt.

Yes. Yes. So we're talking about TI Clean Mobility, TI Clean Mobility, TI Medical and 3xper. These are the 3 areas, right? So let me kind of just address them one by one, right? So I mean -- so Sujit, to your question, broadly, I -- like here I'll talk through each of the 3 businesses one by one, right? The -- so on -- obviously, the largest one is TI Clean Mobility. And there, what I would say is that I would say that we went through things that are definite learning curve, right? I mean I made some mistakes kind of I have not perhaps performed as well as we could have in certain segments. And perhaps I also underthought a bit as to kind of what it would take to kind of build out the business, right? But broadly, what I would say is that we're at the stage when capacity has been built out, and we're beginning to see green shoots in -- definitely in kind of -- in a lot of the new products that we're basically starting off on now. So I would actually say that now is the time to double down on that business. It's not the time to kind of back off. And because the fundamental thesis, Sujit, to me is still intact, right, which is like all of the IC components and IC products in these businesses are going to get replaced over time, right? So I would definitely say that from that perspective, I see it as a business to double down on right now. And obviously, kind of we still have a very high level of conviction that we will kind of get there, though it is getting a bit more delayed than we thought it would. And when I say get there, I mean, obviously, the first step is just EBITDA and cash flow breakeven. And then the next stage will be obviously getting to a level of profitability in that business. The -- and then the second is on 3xper, which is in the CDMO space. See, the big challenge in 3xper was actually the building out of the plant, right? Because there are 2 parts to that business. One is the development side, one is the manufacturing side. The manufacturing side is actually the site that brings in the revenue and scale. And unfortunately, we got caught in getting permissions to build out the facility. And now we've got pretty much everything, including kind of all the consents and approval needed. So in the next 3 months, basically, we will start being able to produce. And then still we have like the certification cycle was fairly long in that business. So the seeding of that business kind of takes a fair amount of time. And I think it got delayed by almost, I would say, more than 18 months because of permissions for that facility in Andhra Pradesh. So that's the challenge of that business. And so we have to at least give it that time to perform, right? And then the third, obviously, is TI Medical. And there, I would say that it's a business that has opportunity. But obviously, kind of I think the learning curve for us on that business has been that the number of targets to acquire in India have been limited, right? So again, we kind of get posed with a question of how do we scale it up because the number of targets are limited. So I would say that are we -- so your question is valid. I understand where you're coming from. Is it time to consolidate or not? But I still feel like these 3 are all still valid TI-2 plays. They're just taking longer. Honestly, TI-2 is taking longer than I thought it would take, right? And -- but that doesn't mean -- see, a lot of the things getting into new sectors like this, right? There haven't been that many people who have entered in the auto sector and kind of have scaled starting de novo. So some of these things just take time, right? And I think that Sujit, as long as my conviction level stays high, we will continue to kind of invest especially in these 3 businesses and looking to scale them up.

Sure. And then coming back to our attention, again, back to our main business, the core business, engineering and metal forming, which because the overall auto industry post GST cut has got a fill. Can you speak about some of the levers that we were deploying in terms of like we've mentioned, export taking up to a higher percentage, same client, higher revenues, seeding more clients, et cetera. So till the time TI-2 plays out, actually, TI-1 again propels the engine.

Correct. Yes. So as you can see, we've had good performance in the engineering business, right? Now the one thing, Sujit, that's been interesting is that where we thought exports would kind of drive it, actually, we've seen the opposite because Europe demand has been weak and U.S. between kind of tariffs and everything else, like on the engineering side, we're still shut out because of Section 232. So we basically still have a 50% effective duty going into the U.S., right? So till some of those things structurally change, export growth has not been to the level we wanted. -- but we're definitely seeing domestic growth offering us kind of enough growth opportunities in these businesses, right? So that's -- so export as a lever has not kind of played out. But domestic growth levers, and we're continuing with plant expansions there will continue to kind of allow us to grow more. So on the engineering side, you can see fairly strong results for the tubes business. And I do think that we will see that performance continue for the foreseeable future. So that provides us with kind of with good impetus. So I would definitely say that we're seeing significant growth opportunities. So we've seen kind of -- if you take that organic growth business, organic business in TI-1, where we thought it would be like more like 6% to 9%, we've seen double-digit growth in those businesses, right? So that's what's giving -- I mean, Sujit, obviously, that is helping from a performance perspective as well.

And one last question in metal forming. One of your clients got listed the Korean company. So if they kind of do well, will we have more opportunities with them to actually grow with them and do better there?

Yes, Sujit, your question is very right. If one of the Korean customer does, obviously, we do...

No, he is saying is -- yes, okay.

I'm trying something. So surely, we'll do well. And at the same time, we are spending time on building capabilities for some other customers as well as some new product lines in the MFPD. Obviously, it will take about a year's time so that maybe even if one customer is not doing well, how we can do well as a company. So those efforts are on. And I'm hopeful by next year, it should give some results.

Sure. All the best to you. Can I have one more question or should I get back in the queue?

Sire, you may proceed, sir. It's fine.

Yes. So -- and this question is since we are a parent to CG Power, which is exceedingly doing well. But just push the envelope further there. You've hired a CEO in his previous avatar in the company that he worked with, services was a significant portion of that entity, close to 30% when we last met him. And he is cognizant of the fact services of CG Power should be like a 1%, 2% business. Could we kind of double down there as well as a lever?

Yes. So Sujit, definitely services is a big lever there. So -- and we're actually -- we're now in the process of recruiting 1 or 2 key people to basically drive the growth of that business. My sense is that, that should be -- so yes, so we are looking at kind of growing that business. First, the team will come on board and then we'll start driving that growth, which will start happening -- so at least the team should be on board in the first quarter of 2027 -- FY 2027.

[Operator Instructions] We'll take the next question from Joseph George of IIFL.

So I have 2, 3 questions. One is on the railway business. In the last call, you had mentioned that the business commencement has been pushed out from 4Q FY '26 to maybe early FY '27. Just want to check whether that is on track in terms of timing?

So Joseph, thanks for the question. Your observation is right. That project is a little bit running delayed and prototype samples are getting submitted between March and April, maybe quarter 1 and in March, it will get submitted. And based on the prototype samples and that company is also developing the product first time. So we are hopeful FY '27 should be better.

Sure. The next question that I had was typically, every quarter, you give out the volume growth in the Engineering segment. So if you can just help us with that number, it will be great.

So on YTD basis, it's double digit. That's what we share and which is going to be reflecting in the results also, what the segmental results we give it.

Sure. The last question that I had was, in the 2Q call, you talked about a potential acquisition. The indicative number given was about INR 200 crores to INR 300 crores. I just wanted to check if there's an update on that and what space are you looking at, et cetera?

So Joseph, like what we shared last time, so this is a continuous what we do it. So there is no definitive time line what we can give it to acquisition as a possibility. So we are looking into the market. And whenever we find there is some suitable possibility, we'll surely share with all of you.

[Operator Instructions] We have the next question from Anupam Gupta.

Hello, am I audible?

Yes, sir.

Yes. So Vellayan, on your first reply, which where you talked about TI-2 and maybe doubling down on the EV business, given that the losses are continuing and earlier, we had said that we will stay at that INR 750 crore investment, which you had done initially. So incrementally, let's say, over the next couple of years, let's say, if the breakeven is pushed out, let's say, 1, 1.5 years down the line, what sort of incremental investments are you okay doing from the parent balance sheet incrementally in the EV business?

Yes. So Anupam, I would say that it will definitely be at least INR 500 crores, and it could be -- so my sense is the range is INR 500 crores to INR 750 crores from the parent balance sheet.

Okay. And...

From the parent branch.

And -- understood. And so...

And Anupam, you're right, which is I did read it -- I mean, I definitely read it wrong, right? So that's why I said I mean it's taking longer than we expected, but you're right so. But INR 500 crores to INR 750 crores is the range.

Yes. I understand. And just to maybe get slightly more color on this. So let's say, in the last couple of years, when we came to the market and all the products which we launched, we were almost, let's say, the early entrants in 3-wheelers as well as in trucks. Now when we are trying to rectify whatever mistakes we did, now we see that the incumbents are much more aggressive in terms of launches, in terms of the features which they are offering. So what incrementally different do you plan to do to maybe get back on track in the EV business?

Anupam, obviously, the strategy is going to be different for different products, right? So where we made mistakes and where the incumbents have now taken the lead has been in the 3-wheeler side, right? So that's -- in that business, basically, the objective is to kind of bring down our cost structure so that we -- they -- since they've got the product, if we kind of -- again, we'll get into a lot of specifics, but basically, you have like 3 sets of segments in there, right, in the L5N category and one is 9 kilowatt, one is 10.6 and one is 12, about 12 plus. And right now, predominantly, Mahindra and us are in the 10.6 category. So obviously, what we need to do is make our product more competitive in that category and then look at products in the other categories, right? So kind of without kind of going through like huge amounts on CapEx, which is the way we're looking at it. So those are the 2 focus areas there. The good thing is that all the product issues are behind us, right? So it's basically now it's just focused on, again, kind of developing stronger relationships with the channel and beginning to push out on sales. Now if you take the small commercial vehicle, there's been very good reception to the product, and we're still early in the sense that there are right now 3 players in that segment, which is basically Ashok Leyland, Volvo-Eicher and us. And then -- so I think -- sorry, Anupam, did would you say something or...?

No, no, please go ahead.

Yes. Yes. So I think that -- so there, there's still an opportunity to -- because it's early days and the early adoption is getting started, but the product is a solid product. It's very good and beginning to scale well. And then on M&HCV, there, I would say that still, we've got kind of over -- we're over 40% of the products sold in the market today. And there, what's happening is we're beginning to develop use cases. That's how it's happened, right? We actually kind of like really work to develop the use cases for the cement segment. Now cement is picking up. So we have to do this one -- I mean, so basically, to create adoption here, we have to kind of go one segment at a -- how many of our segments adopt at a time is going to determine kind of how quickly the product scales, right? So I think in each one, the strategy is slightly different, Anupam.

Sure. Understood. And just one last question. So given that you have to have so much focus on reviving the 3 new segments, will it be right to assume that you will not incrementally be wanting to take anything new under TI? Or you are still open to adding new stuff in TI-2 or TI-3?

Yes. So I think that I would say that right now, definitely, Sujit's point was also valid, which is it's unlikely we'll do anything significant in TI-2 anymore, right? So I think TI-3 is just -- TI-3, if something were there, we'll still be open to. But I would say, definitely, there's no thinking of doing so much significant in TI-2 at least.

That question was from Mr. Anupam Gupta from HDFC Mutual Fund. We now move to our next question. That's from Salil Desai of Marcellus Investment Managers.

Yes. First question, if you could share the volumes in each of these electric vehicle categories for the quarter?

The -- [Foreign Language] registrations.

[indiscernible].

Okay, have we shared volumes before.

Yes, for -- primary volumes we have.

Okay.

Yes. Okay. So the volume for quarter 3 for the big trucks, M&HCV, 56 numbers. For 3-wheeler business, 1,816 numbers. For small commercial vehicles, 30 number and for e-tractor, 29 number.

Yes. I mean I see Vellayan and you're saying that the small commercial vehicles reception has been very solid. Great. My second question is on the engineering segment, right now, there is a clear improvement there. But in MFP, I mean, I'm assuming that there's a fair bit of overlap in end user industries, maybe even some customers. So why is there's a divergence in the growth rates between the 2?

So Salil, your observation is right. Actually, in MFPD, we are having today 2 challenges what we are facing is, one is railway business. Second, particularly, whatever exports we do in MFPD for the European market. So European markets are going a bit weaker. That's why there is a little bit of divergence. But from domestic market size other than railway, it's going good.

All right. Great. And our new plants, any progress on them? Have they started commercial operations? I'm assuming that you would have had something in this quarter, right?

You're talking about Engineering division.

The West, yes, the plant in West of Saurashtra.

So that is also a little bit deferred. We are maybe hoping I think it will get delayed by 6 to 9 months' time.

Any particular reasons why that is happening?

Maybe let's say, because machine suppliers are facing some challenges, and that's why we -- it is getting a little bit delayed.

I see. All right. Great. My next question I had, this was on Shanthi Gears, if one of you could help us understand is that revenues have been declining sequentially for at least about 4 to 6 quarters now. So what is really happening there? And if you can share how the business would shape up, let's say, in the next couple of years?

So Salil, maybe on a long-term basis, sure, we are always bullish about Shanthi Gear business. But in the short run, order book is a challenge. And there, you know the group philosophy is always to always keep eye on the margins and which we don't want to dilute. So we see a little bit of slowdown in the order book. And also, we feel it's a temporary in nature, maybe another 1 or 2 quarters, and we'll provide with that.

So just to make sure I understand, you're saying the market is now more competitive and orders are fewer, so you are not kind of compromising on margins and letting revenues go. Is that how we should...?

Yes, that's right. That's right.

Our next question is from Ajox Frederick from Sundaram Mutual Fund.

Yes. Sir, just one question. On engineering, we've been slow for a bit of time, and now we are turning things around. Does it have to do with, let's say, new customers, new products? What's kind of happening there?

So like we shared in the past, it's a combination of 2, 3 factors. One is, obviously, in the -- after GST cut domestic market is absolutely bullish. So we have participated in that. And also, you are aware of we have done a lot of regional balancing as a part of our strategy exercise. So a plant for CRS is putting in Nashik and a plant for another tube plant for -- we have put in Phaltan. So both maybe, let's say, the capacities are getting utilized. And we are hopeful by quarter 2 of next year, that will get fully booked. So -- and we are participating whatever EV conversions are happening with the high strength material and maybe wherever our customers are China Plus One strategies are there. So a combination of all is helping Engineering business to grow. But at the same time, exports is right now a challenge. Hopefully, this trade barrier and all these things improve, so that will further add to current growth levels.

That's great, sir. So the margins can still get better as our capacities improve.

Internally, we are driving it.

Our next question is from Jinesh Gandhi of Oaklane Capital.

Yes, am I audible now?

Yes, sir.

Mr. Vellayan, my question pertains to your comment on exports, which you talked about on the tariff side. So now with the recent change on the U.S. tariff, would we expect our duties to come down to 18% or under Section 232, it will be still at 25%?

So there's been no indication right now that Section 232, the duty of 50% is going to come down. So the current stand is still that, that sticks there. So obviously, there's still been -- and there has been active lobbying by India to try to bring it down, but there does not seem to be any indication of that yet. Yes. So obviously, kind of this is outside of that 50% to 18% regime. 232 has been a separate track. And 232, it doesn't look like has been touched for pretty much all of the products that we're in still remain in.

Okay. So it's not even 25%?

Yes, you're right. So Jinesh, you're right, that 50% sticks for us.

Got it. And secondly, with this EU/FDA talking about bringing duties down to 0 from exports from India, do you see Europe as a relatively bigger opportunity, which was not fully tapped so far and with this change in duties, as and when it happens in the next course of next 12 to 15 months, we can see substantial growth and ramp up in the European markets?

Yes, your observation is right. Europe is a big market. And like you rightly said that it will have a lag of around 12 to 15 months. And also, there is one more challenge, maybe there are known trade barrier also are there in terms of CBAM and all things, which adds further challenge. I'm hopeful maybe our government is negotiating that. If that happens, yes, it's a big market.

So Europe has definitely been a huge opportunity for us, but they've also had all kinds of barriers, both on the volume side and on an NTB.

Tariff side and non -- right, right. No, that's fair point. And last question is on the 3-wheeler side. So now we have had a sizable presence in some of the key markets on the E-3-wheeler side. So some of the older markets in South India, which we entered first, how has been our ramp-up there? And what has been our market share in those markets on E-3-wheeler space? And second part question to E-3-wheeler is what percentage of the addressable market we are now present in?

Okay. So I'll take the second question first. So today, we cater to about -- so we have about 117 dealerships in E-3-wheeler, and we cater to in the L5N category, about 65% to 70% of the TIV is what this particular 117 dealers they cater to. Within these dealerships also, we are trying to have a focused dealer approach to ramp up our volumes, which is to say about 52 to 55 of these dealers is what we are primarily focusing more on, which can give us about, let's say, 75% of the volumes that we do. To the first part of your question, yes, in South, our relative presence is better as compared to in terms of market share vis-a-vis North, East and West. But in South, the electric industry transition from ICE has not been as much as it has been in the other parts of the country. So we still continue to be relatively strong in South vis-a-vis other markets. And that places us well as and when the transition happens, it will augur well for us.

We take the next question from Vipul Shah of Sumangal Investments.

Sir, am I audible?

You are audible sir, please go ahead.

Yes. So of the...

Mr. Shah, I'm sorry, you're on mute.

Yes. Am I audible?

Yes, yes, you are, sir.

So of the all 4 electrical vehicle products, which one you have the highest confidence that it will turn around in next 12 to 18 months?

So I definitely say that the 2 which will -- that we are pushing towards breakeven in the next 12 to 18 will be in the heavy vehicles and in the 3-wheeler because those have had the longest track records. And then that will be followed by SUV and then tractor.

Okay. And sir, you said that you will be infusing INR 500 crores to INR 700 crores in electrical business. So that will be at the TI Clean Mobility level overall? So our contribution will be less. It should be proportionate to our equity, right?

So we will basically -- I mean, that's a discussion we'll have in terms of the exact structure. But we look at it in both models, right, like whether we put in and kind of increase our stake or whether we get kind of proportional contributions.

And what is our current capacity utilization in Engineering division? So why I'm asking is, are we planning any CapEx over the next 12 months in that division since that division has started performing?

Like we shared in the earlier calls, we have covered for FY '27 fully, and we always access this capacity utilization and the future demand on a regular basis. So if anything is required for FY '28, we'll put up the CapEx.

Our next question is from Prithvi Raj Earle from Unifi Capital.

I just have a couple of questions on EVs. If you look at 3-wheelers, you have already increased the distribution reach. You have corrected your products. What else you think you can do to drive volumes? Because I'm assuming you have been doing whatever you can. Is there anything else you can do to push the volumes?

So Prithvi, basically, yes, there is. There are 2 sets of things we can do. One is that we're actively focused on kind of the VOM cost reduction side to make -- because basically to make the product more competitive from a pricing perspective. That is one thing that we're definitely focused on. And then obviously, the second is when you think of the channel and the network, basically kind of building that out as it's kind of comparative to what our competition. These are the 2 things.

But I'm assuming this VOM cost reduction will take a lot of time, right? It's not going to be easy.

No, it doesn't have to be -- it doesn't have to take that long, right? We've been working on it for a while, right? It's not like we're starting.

Okay. And then obviously, in the first question, you explained in detail about each of the segments. But if I have to ask, where do you take a call that, okay, enough of these investments and you will like to end it. I mean, after how many...

So obviously...

I mean after how many -- after what kind of investments?

Yes. So I don't want to give like a deterministic answer to that now, which is like basically the way I still have a lot of conviction that IC is basically going to move to EV, right? I've always said we don't know the rate at which acceleration is going to happen. So basically, we are still very convinced that this is a segment that we have to basically invest in because we see the opportunity in these platforms. So we'll continue to invest. So I think that's the way we're looking at it right now.

As there are no further questions in the queue, that brings us to the end of our Q&A session. I'm sorry, actually, we just got a participant in the queue. That's Mr. Salil Desai from Marcellus Investment Managers.

Can you share an update on the L3 foray? I think about 6 months back, you mentioned that is a space that you're looking at? And if any progress has been made, any CapEx or volume targets?

So Salil, at this point of time, we have seeded in certain volumes and only in select markets. And we are testing out the product in terms of product acceptability, price points, et cetera. As you would know that this market has been dominated by the typical lead acid players, and there are more than 250 players in the market, hugely fragmented market. So we want to be very sure what we are getting into. So at this point of time, it is just at a seeding in a few markets and basis the feedback that we get over next quarter or so, we will take a call on the future of the product and what our GTM strategy would be.

We have another follow-up question, sir, from Prithvi Raj of Unifi Capital.

Sorry, I just have one bookkeeping question. What are the losses in EV during the quarter?

Yes. See, during the quarter, it is INR 164 crores.

It's already [indiscernible].

INR 164.31 crores.

We have a next question from Anish Rankawat of UTI Mutual Fund.

One question. The cycle segment seems to be doing really well this year. While I believe last couple of quarters were cyclical in terms of seasonality, it seems to be maintaining in Q3 as well. What is driving this? And how do you see it going forward?

So like we shared last year, we are trying to develop new products, which at least takes care to some extent the cyclicity. So e-bike was one of them. Last year, if you see our e-bike sales were almost nothing. And this year, it has picked up pretty well. And still, we have to go a long way in that particular. And second, a focus on the fitness business and the spares business, what we are trying to bring it that -- these 3 initiatives will surely help us to mitigate to some extent this cyclicity in this business.

E-cycles, what kind of TAM are we looking at? And what kind of penetration does e-cycles have currently in India?

So we have just started. And like we -- let's say, in EV businesses, we are discussing, the adoption level is going to pick up. Like we see in the EV vehicles. Similarly, we see in the EV bicycles also, the adoption level is going to pick up, like China has done a good job in particular with that. We also see at some point of time, consumers are going to definitely need a segment where they don't want to buy a bicycle and as well as they can't afford the 2-wheeler. So in between segment, there is a segment going to emerge, and we are trying to participate that. And how much TAM will be there, I think -- yes.

The TAM is like not deterministic right now, right? So it's like a conversion of a segment, right? So it's -- I think all of these things is not like there's any data or kind of anything that says the TAM is going to be so big.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. On behalf of IIFL Capital Services Limited, that concludes today's conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now click on the Leave icon to exit the meeting. Thank you all for your participation.