TX Group AG (TXGN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Half Year 2021 Results Analyst Conference Call. I am Sandra, the Chorus Call operator. [Operator Instructions] The conference is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] The conference must not be recorded for publication or broadcast. At this time, it's my pleasure to hand over to Ms. Ursula Nötzli, Head of Corporate Communications and Investor Relations. Please go ahead, madam.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to today's Analyst Call. As you have probably all read by now, this is a very important day for TX Group. This morning, we have announced a merger of our marketplaces with the ones of Scout24. However, also our half year results are very encouraging. In the coming hour, we would like to focus particularly on our half year results. About the merger, there is only basic information we can share at the moment. But we plan to hold an Investor Day in November. So we ask for your patience. Present in the call is our whole group management. Pietro Supino, as Publisher and Chairman; Sandro Macciacchini, our CFO; Sam Hügli, heading Technology & Ventures; and our Managing Directors of the individual companies from Tamedia, the Co-Head, Marco Boselli; and Andreas Schaffner; Olivier Rihs from TX Markets; Michi Frank from Goldbach; and last but not least, Marcel Kohler from 20 Minuten. With this, I would like to hand over to Pietro.

Thank you, Ursula, and hello, everybody. As Ursula have said, we want to focus on the first half year of 2021 in this call. Nevertheless, I will give a short recap of the transaction we have announced this morning and make very brief comments to the various things of our group. And of course, we will try to answer any questions you might have. So the joint venture we have announced with Mobiliar/Ringier and General Atlantic, it comprehends the perimeter TX Markets, excluding JobCloud and Scout24 Group. From our side, we will contribute Homegate with ImmoStreet and acheter-louer as well as Ricardo, Tutti and Car for you. And Mobiliar and Ringier will bring in Scout24 Group. JobCloud, as I have said, is not part of the new joint venture. It will remain a 50-50 joint venture between Ringier and TX. With this new joint venture, we think that we strengthened our successful marketplaces that we both contribute and that we will be able to accelerate the growth of these activities. The first condition for this is that we enhance the relevance of our marketplaces of our platforms, which, of course, we do by bringing them together, the relevance for our users. And with that, immediately, we enhance the efficiency for our business customers. Together, we shall be able to get more in the product development and we will be a more attractive employer in the field. And together, we think we are convinced that we will be better placed to face the increasingly international competition. And with this, we will also give a digital perspective for Switzerland, as a country, where this kind of industry will have future and will have a long-term future, given the industrial structures that we are shaping with the joint venture. In the first step, we shall merge the marketplaces of Scout Group and TX Markets and the resulting participations in the joint venture will be 29.5% equity for Mobiliar and Ringier each and 41% equity for TX. The second step, TX is selling 10% of its stake to General Atlantic, the valuation of the joint venture for that transaction is CHF 2.7 billion. That means that the 10% of TX are sold for CHF 270 million. That means also that the original 41% of TX are valued at CHF 1.1 billion. And of course, we envisage that value to grow, potentially to double at the time of an envisaged IPO. And in that sense, this is the contribution from our side that we have been willing to sell already now at the given valuation, 10% General Atlantic, which we have done because we are convinced that General Atlantic will be able to contribute to value creation of the joint venture on the one hand. And on the other hand, we wanted to avoid a situation where Mobiliar and Ringier could have controlled the joint venture. They have, with the 29.5% each majority in capital, but the joint venture is structured in such a way that each partner is equal and has a 25% share in the vote. So that there is a need for 3 to take a decision and with the declared goal to bring this joint venture public. We also want to underline the independence that it should have. For commercial reasons, we are convinced, but it has also been helpful for legal reasons because given to the fact that there is no controlling shareholder in the joint venture and given to the fact that we don't reach the threshold in turnover. It will not be necessary to go through merger control. The Swiss competition authority has not to be involved, and we can close this joint venture within the next few weeks without any further legal procedure necessary. Also, the Board of Directors reflect this idea of an independent joint venture, all shareholders -- an independent Chairman, Lothar Lanz with finance and digital expert. Maybe you have known him as the Chairman of Zalando, where he was closely involved in the listing of the company, and he has been CFO of Axel Springer before. Olivier Rihs, the CEO of TX Markets has substantially contributed to this transaction and will also join the Board so that they will be representative 2 members in that work. And Olivier Rihs will contribute to the implementation of the merger as a member of the Board. And of course, he will enrich the Board with his deep knowledge about market places. Besides that, he will remain in charge of the marketplace assets of TX Group of all the other assets, namely he will remain Chairman of JobCloud, the mentioned joint venture with Ringier. And of course, we will, together, now study where we could invest the proceeds from the sale of the 10% in the new joint venture to General Atlantic as well as the cash that we have had on our balance already before. For the Group, this step is a huge opportunity. It is also a clear next step within the strategy that we have announced and implemented 18 months ago to transform the Group into a holding structure. We not only strengthen our portfolio, but with the money that we will have, the liquidity that we will have on our balance sheet of about CHF 0.5 billion, we can really further develop and diversify our portfolio. And that, of course, is an extremely challenging, but also very interesting task that is waiting for us. So following this actual information, I would like to ask Sandro Macciacchini, and the CEOs of our Group companies to have a look back on the first semester of 2021. From my side, just a few comments, it's really very positive to see that all our companies are recovering from the crisis and on a good path towards the future. The positive development of Goldbach is particularly pleasing. And especially, I would like to mention that Goldbach has been able to win the tenders from VBZ, the Zurich transportation system. And Coop the national retailer in out-of-home and that is of strategic importance for Goldbach. Especially proud I am to see how innovative our publishing activities are developing, and I'm proud about the journalistic performance of Tamedia and of 20 Minutes. It has again been confirmed through our yearly monitoring of the journalistic quality, and I am convinced that especially in the given circumstances, is a very important contribution that we can make to our society. Also very positive is the development of Doodle of Zattoo and of our venture portfolio, especially in the area of fintech. And last but not least, the excellent performance of TX Market speaks for itself and was, of course, a condition for the foundation of the joint venture that we have today announced. And with this, I would like to invite my colleagues to go into more detail. And in the end, we will be at your disposal for any questions you have.

Thank you, Pietro Sandro Macciacchini, here. Good afternoon. I would like to start with an overview of the most important financial key figures for the first half of 2021, shown on Slide 5, I hope you have it all in front of you. On the far left, you can see that revenues increased by 5%. The main drivers were the recovery in the advertising and tops market as well as the continued strong performance of digital marketplaces. In addition to the increase in revenues, costs were cut by around CHF 10 million as compared to the prior period. Therefore, EBIT before PPA developed very positively, rising to CHF 48 million. The positive performance of associated companies, in particular, the Job platform, karriere in Austria also contributed to this result. For the avoidance of doubt, EBIT before PPA is defined as EBIT before amortization resulting from business combinations. Total comprehensive income amounted to CHF 21 million. This includes a financial gain of around CHF 12 million due to a settlement into legal dispute with the sales of Trendsales. As you all are aware, the impairment of Tamedia led to a net loss in the period. Thanks to the good improvement of the performance, free cash flow before M&A recovered also significantly to CHF 49 million as compared to 0 in the prior period. Free cash flow before M&A is defined as cash flow after CapEx, but before acquisitions and divestments. Net liquidity rose to CHF 194 million, in addition to the positive operating performance, the fact that no dividend was paid out to shareholders of TX Group for last year also contributed to this result. The next chart shows the development of the advertising market in Switzerland in gross figures. As you can see, the advertising recovered significantly in the second quarter, in contrast to the coronavirus related slump last year. All in all, the development was more or less flat. The next chart, that is Chart 6, we had to update this morning. As you will find the new version on online due to a change in the figures of -- went for June just some days ago. And with these new figures, we can say that the development of the net advertising market for print media was slightly positive in the first half of this year with plus 2.7%, and the daily press segment was also more or less stable. When comparing the market development with the performance of TX Group on the next chart, we can see that we outperformed the market significantly. Our advertising revenues rose by 15% and marketing and brokerage revenues increased by CHF 34 million. Revenues from classified and services were negative due to disposals, but improvement in organic growth, this revenue category also developed positively. Revenues from subscription and individual sales remained stable. Therefore, the decline in print subscriptions was offset by growth in digital subscriptions. According to the next chart, organic sales growth that is, excluding acquisitions and divestments, amounted to 8%. This excludes the sold activities in the prior year, mainly of all year. The digital share of revenues, as shown on the next chart, also continued to increase. All in all, 53% of revenues were generated with digital offerings as compared to 50% in the prior period. Revenues from digital subscriptions as the pie chart to the far right shows currently amount for 11% of total revenue from the user market here included our only digital subscriptions. The other subscriptions are recorded as combined. The next chart shows the normalized profit. As in prior years, one-off special effects were eliminated here. The most important effect was the already mentioned financial gain from the settlement with the service of Trendsales. Furthermore, we eliminate also fully depreciation and amortization resulting from business combinations in accordance also to our methodology for the EBIT before PPA. All in all, this results in a normalized profit of CHF 38 million, which compares to a normalized profit of CHF 4 million in last year. On the next chart, you can see the trend in free cash flow before acquisitions, the so called free cash flow before M&A. Investments in intangible assets totaled to CHF 12 million. This resulted in a free cash flow before M&A of almost CHF 50 million. we anticipate similar investment requirements in the future. As a reminder, in the first half year 2020, we generated the free cash flow before M&A of 0, and by the end of 2020 of CHF 94 million. This means that we can expect that the free cash flow will climb well above the CHF 100 million mark for the full year 2021, if the economic recovery continues. The next chart shows the change in equity ratio, which increased also to reach 75%. Net liquidity amounted to just around CHF 200 million as of the reporting date. This includes lease liabilities of around CHF 50 million. Before I hand over to my colleagues, I would like to look at the segments. Unlike the position we found ourselves last half -- last midyear, it's pleasing to see that we closed the first half of this year with a positive operating result across all segments. That is also the case for 20 Minutes. If we exclude the loss in the associated company, BT in Denmark due to the sale of our stake in this company in the first half of this year. Only group -- segment group in ventures was negative on EBIT before PPA level with minus CHF 9 million. This loss is largely due to the group cost, not allocated to the company. Ventures performed very well in the reported year. The organic sales growth of ventures amounted to 15%, overall, many thanks to [indiscernible]. With that, I hand over to my colleagues for the operational report. Thanks.

Okay. Hi, everyone. Olivier Rihs from TX Markets. So looking back at the results of the first half of the year, I think we can be very happy with 8% more revenues. The economy -- the recovery of the economy pushed the revenues of JobCloud high. And the secondhand and particular economy trend pushed also Ricardo and Tutti towards record numbers. We are very happy about how we did it. So together within TX Markets, but also thanks to the support of the Group. Now sharing resources and sharing best practices we could really improve our platform in tech, but also in new services and products. The JobCloud part is, of course, let's say, getting now to a new level -- pre-COVID levels and it's absolutely great for us. But not only there, we are, let's say, the development of the platform of Tutti and Ricardo are above what we had also last year. And this is why I think the TX Markets, overall, is -- had a fantastic first half of the year. But now looking forward, and you heard about the JV and from Mr. Supino. I think we have a tremendous future in front of us. Joining forces with Scout24, we are able to consolidate the market, the Swiss market, but also to invest in innovative products, and if you think on the transaction model and transaction-based business model, I think we have, there, a fantastic future in front of us, but not only in numbers, but also in -- for our employees to be a part of the -- one of the biggest tech company in Switzerland with over 1,000 people. Our teams are very excited of its future, and we will really looking forward to be part of this fantastic story and with a great potential in front of us. Thank you very much.

Hi, everybody, Michi Frank, Goldbach, the sales house from TX Group. When you see in my first page, it's really that Goldbach comes back in black. That's really the highlight. Because when I look back on the last 18 months, it was really not the easy time in this crisis, especially the second quarter in 2020, there was really not an easy one. But also in this year, the first 3 months, we are still in the crisis, we are working on them. But in the second quarter, the business is coming back, and then that's what you see now on this chart. And that's really important for us. Special, the TV advertising and also the paid advertising in publishing business is coming back. There also is a growth, especially in Germany and in Austria in the programmatic stuff. But also, we have some problems still in the out-of-home business in the first half year because there was not a lot of people who were walking on the streets, and that was really the problem. But we see that now, the business is also coming back in the third quarter and especially in the fourth quarter, that's a signal we see. We have very special in the second chart, you see that in the television. We have the nice growth also special in the revenues, in the radio business. Revenue business just for you, for information. There are 54 radio stations here in Switzerland, and we are looking forward for the national business. The local business are still in the hands from the radio stations. And the last one is really Neo Advertising. We are there also advertising space with down the road, and that's a nice story. And because we are sure for that for the 360 focus. The 360 focus means all our content, what we have with the group together in one special customer, in one hand, and that means that goes for the future, and that's our business for the future, what we think. The last chart from my side is what I will show you is a special new business in TV with the new replay ads. It means we have a special situation in Switzerland with skipping. The content producer is not a content owner. And there, we have now a new situation we planned that on May 22, together with all the partners also with ad national platform that we have a new technology. When the skipping is coming, that still is 1 or 2 spots in, and that's really the future case for us. The second important is, for us, the network marketing. It means the network where we go together, especially in the online business, display business ads offering also in brand safety, that's also a quality because that's our answer for the market that we have the content, we go together and with new technology ID where we go in the future, that's the right way for us. Especially Neo Advertising, more information for you, we win 2 or 3 big pictures. VBZ, it means that's the buses here in Zurich, it's the second highest out-of-home place for us, and we win that for '22 and also the Coop's part, that's both of them are now in a discussion with us to go from the conventional out-of-home to digital out-of-home also from our group, but we have a lot of nice content, but we can play there or in a programmatic way. Also, there is a new winning stuff moving media in Basel, that's also the buses there in this time. Yes. We look forward, and we are happy really what we see in the next 3 or 5 months for the market that we think we are here on the right way. Now I give the words to my colleagues. Thanks, bye.

Good afternoon, everybody, Marcel Kohler, from 20 Minutes. On my first chart, you see as Goldbach also 20 Minutes or even more, we had a very difficult first half year last year. We had a loss of CHF 7 million, and I'm happy that we are back in the black figures with CHF 1 million. These figures are the result of a revenue growth of 28%. It comes, not only from Switzerland, it comes from all the markets where we are active, that means also from Austria and from Luxembourg. Very important on this chart, and that's the point for the future is the title. We have a total audience for the first time of over 3 million readers, that's the important for the future. On my second chart, you see the strong digital growth. On the right side, you see the nationwide print run, it's still going down. We expect and we see we can change it. Nevertheless, we see it's a structural change in the future. But on the digital growth, we are happy to give you maybe the figures behind these 10% and 6% that you see on the chart, unique clients that are about 2 million unique clients we have every day and the visits nationwide, that's about 5.5 million visits everyday. To give you a short outlook, what's important is the login campaign for 3 main reasons. First, there are quality aspects that, since 2 weeks, our comments are behind the login wall. It was a good decision. But having logins is also important to deliver personalized content and for my colleague, Michi Frank, to develop customized advertising offers. Being innovative is part of the DNA of 20 Minutes. Now -- 20 Minutes now is an important part of that. We launched it in the German part of Switzerland in November last year. In March, in the French part. We are happy with the development. We have new formats, also other ones. And we launched on the large screen, our smart TV app. We were the first media house in Switzerland that made that. It's still a small business, but we see quite a good future. Yes, future developing our multichannel strategy that's important. We will stay -- reach model, and we do that with content, we do that with video. And we do that even more with social media, we see and we are happy about that our content is performing also on social media, and there we can do much more, and it helps us to keep the young readership. Thank you very much.

Good afternoon, everybody. This is Marco Boselli, 1 of the 2 co-heads of Tamedia. Besides Andreas Schaffner, who will talk to you in a few minutes. So if we go to Chart 27, you see the key figures of Tamedia. You see the revenue on the left side. We just had a slight drop of 1%, which comes entirely from our printing services afterwards, you will see that all the KPIs from our publishing business are positive, especially a strong cost-saving program helped us to improve our net income from minus CHF 5 million in the last half year to CHF 7 million in 2021. We also are really proud to be back in the winning zone. On the next slide, you see the KPIs of our publishing activities. In total subscriptions on the left, you see that we were able to have a slight raise of 1%, which is a good news because that means that our digital subscription were able to overcompensate the loss in print subscriptions, which is a good message. In the second graph, you see that in the digital-only subscriptions, we had a really strong raise of 28%. We are now at 133,000 pure digital subscriptions with [indiscernible] of all our subscriptions. Then you also see that the user market is quite stable with CHF 121 million, and the recovery in the advertising market you see on the right side, also Tamedia profit of this new wind under the wings of Goldbach, which Michi Frank told you just a few minutes ago. Andreas?

Hello, everybody. Andreas Schaffner, co-lead with Marco Boselli together for the forecast, while printed newspaper is still are very important for us. We will only continue to grow digitally and there is where our focus is. Our long-term goal is to finance our business through the sales of digital subscriptions, but without neglecting our printed newspaper. We continuously develop our journalism and create new digital offerings and innovative new formats. As Switzerland's biggest private editorial network, our aim is to offer readers and journalism of the highest quality, which has a wide reach and at the same time, it's locally and regionally anchored. Preserving our regional newspaper requires close cooperation between the editorial teams. At the beginning of this year, we introduced different items per font. The official start in June was successful, and we are very pleased to see how well the collaboration among the team is working. In October of this year, we will introduce the new BZ/Bund team, which will form the strongest private editorial offer in the region. Our colleagues are currently working with great commitment on implementing the Bund editorial team and will launch this in month of October. We aim to increase diversity in Tamedia's team as well as our media coverage. Specific objectives and measures have been defined. They are regularly reviewed and we will adapt if necessary. So I hand over to Ursula.

Thank you very much. With this, we will go to the Q&A session.

Thank you very much. At this time we will go to the Q&A session.

Maybe before starting the Q&A, let me kind of summarize that we think the transaction we have announced today has created a lot of value for our Group. We have done the math before together. And this means that only our stake in the newly formed joint venture equals the market capitalization of our Group. That's pretty impressive and shows the potential we have on which we want to work. On the other hand, the development in the first half year is pleasing. It's okay. It's especially pleasing considering where we come from out of the crisis. But of course, it does not, at all, meet our ambitions and is part of the kind of profitability we have had in the past, and we want to achieve again in the future with our businesses.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Daniel Bürki from ZKB.

I would ask 2 questions. First, on TX Markets. You mentioned that the number of listed properties fell in the first half. Could you comment on the sales development of Homegate? And then on the profitability of the segment of TX Market, can you comment on this? So it generally went up strongly, but could you maybe shed some light which areas were stronger at the end. Then a second one on the cost savings in Tamedia is this, you said you had CHF 20 million out of CHF 70 million you realized already. Is this, let's say, a run rate for the full year. So you will have CHF 40 million already in '21. If I remember correctly, you said it would rather be back-end loaded. Now it seems to come earlier.

Okay thank you for your question. Olivier Rihs, TX Markets. About the question on Homegate and real estate market. The market overall is dry. So last year in 2020 during the pandemic, 63,000 people came in Switzerland to -- and to settle in our country. But the number of flats and the houses are not growing that far. And a lot of people bought also a second house in order to not to stay only in the cities during the pandemic, but also to be in other regions. So -- and that's why, let's say, at the moment that the market is dry, but we could, let's say, keep the -- more or less the same number of listings and also have more customer on our platform. But with less listings because they have less houses to sell. And that's, let's say, the mitigation of the numbers we had at Homegate. But let's say, this is the picture now. And then we are very, let's say, comfortable and then we are, let's say, we push now also our organization with new sales with -- and also with a new proposal. We bought also acheter-louer in Normandy in the French part of Switzerland. We also bought the business of immobilien more in eastern part of Switzerland. So we are very confident that we will grow again as soon as the market will be a little bit more liquid. So -- and about the margin of TX Markets, from 38% to 43%, we have top revenues of 8% more than last year. This is the one thing. And the other thing is we had also a better performance in marketing. So we spend a little less than we were planned. And I think this is also, let's say, the result of of joining the forces within TX Markets and having more performance on every single penny we put into marketing.

Thank you, Oli. Then to Tamedia...

For Tamedia, it's right, as you saw in Chart 27. We have already made a quarter of the CHF 70 million. So it's not really CHF 20 million. It's a bit less than CHF 20 million, but the run rate until end of year will be another CHF 17 million or CHF 18 million. So we will be at around CHF 35 million, CHF 36 million. And the biggest cost saving effect is this project in Berne. So yes, you're right, we should be around half of the savings that we have projected until the end of 2022.

The next question comes from Andy Schnyder from zCapital.

I would have a few questions, and I will start with basically on Goldbach. When you look at these newly won contracts, I think especially the [indiscernible] is more like substantial in size. It's being somewhere around CHF 20 million, CHF 30 million in the past, at least that's on top of my head. When you look at the new revenue distribution, let's say, once these contracts have started, how would it look like for Goldbach? Will it be like 60% TV, 10% radio and then 30% out-of-home? Or how do you see it?

Michi here. I think to say a percent, it's not so easy. We believe in that, that the way it goes to digital, and digital means it goes to programmatic and all the stuff that they can bring together means also the publishing things, what Marcel Kohler you about in the presentation. This makes -- could be the future, what we see because the clients are looking for that for special ways, easy ways go in the market and with our content, what we have with our new technology, the IDs that we have, I can't say you now it goes 60% to TV, 20% to radio. It's a new mix. I think it's also -- a second point from my opinion, as in the [indiscernible] business, that's the important stuff for us for all the stuff in publishing because that's the business where the big guys are picking up our money. And we have the better content. And then we now start with the technology idea what we have. And when we bring that together, we have new clients. And we need also not just new clients, we need also new businesses. And that's the start -- with the start -- the second start with all the new things that we have in the out-of-home business with Coop and VBZ. I think that the way it's starting, still starting and the discussion with the clients goes in this way, one face to the customer, they won't have to reach in a lot of medias. That's the idea what we have, and we have the content. And that mix on these things, we are working now.

Okay. Perfect. And regarding VBZ and Coop, how much of that inventory can be digital inventory? I guess, is it for Coop, it can be rather easy to convert into digital because most of their inventory is probably in their shopping centers and inside their buildings? But for VBZ, I think it must be a little bit harder because you have so strict laws and rules that you cannot convert everything into the digital, right?

That's right, but there is a plan. There's really a strict, mainly starting '22 with the IDs 250 places, digital -- the new digital places where we start by the VBZ network because that's the story that I told you. These places also need content, and we have the content in our group and that if the technology with the programmatic stuff, we can go out with them. That's one of the things. The second is the new thing with Coop, it also goes in the same way. There are a lot of out-of-home medias, but now we go to refresh on that and discuss that together with them to build new IDs also in the digital stuff, together goes in this way. It will be a mix in the first thing by far, which will be 2 -- could be normally analytic stuff. It means out-of-home. And the way it goes to 1/3 of the part, I think that's really vague. And for -- in 5 year, ask me in 5 years, I think we have more digital places.

Perfect. And last question for you, Michi. Before, in 2019, you had around 20%, 22% EBITDA margin. With these new contracts, is it fair to assume that the margin will rather come down a little bit? Or is that a wrong assumption?

Look, that's the story what I told you about the market, the out-of-home market is special and that was not so easy really. But this thing, we can go back there. That's really the idea that we have. Because it's -- when we have the digital stuff, when we have that, it could be easier for everybody to go in, in this market, and the margin could be there better. That's the way that we are working. But our Financial Director, Sandro Macciacchini is going to tell figures to you. I don't know exactly, but we work on that.

Okay. So take the 22% back into my model. Some questions for Mr. Kohler on 20 Minutes. You had a much stronger second half last year with less lockdowns, obviously. But what we've seen in the past for many newspaper is that every cyclical downturn we had which made some of the advertising money, the print advertising money disappear, it never came back afterwards. And how do you see that for 20 Minutes? What do you hear in the market? What do you hear from your advertising clients? Has there been a shift? Do you feel that a lot of these advertising money will not come back even when COVID is gone at some point in the future?

Thank you for this question. What -- where I agree with you, the money in the print will not come back as it was in 2019. That's very clear. But what we expect is that a part of this print loss will come back. We see that in our markets, in Luxembourg and in Austria, it's possible. And I think and I hope that we will see that also here in Switzerland. And -- but the structural change is clear, and we don't have to say it's not the case. It is the case. But what helps us is that we work now for years on our digital position and our revenues came this year, maybe about 2/3 from the digital and 1/3 from the print. That means for the result in the future, of course, print is important. And we do everything we can that we can grow is also in the print, but it's even more important to have a growth in the digital, and we see that this year in the first 6 months, it's about 30%.

Okay. Perfect. Yes. My second question would have been how much should the revenue you had in H1 because it's quite good. Impressive. Perfect. Then some questions on the JV announcement for Mr. Supino. I'm not sure if I've missed that at the beginning of the call. But 2 questions on the structure of the JV. So why is Atlantic Group part of the joint venture? I would be interested in that. And why is the Job network not part of the joint venture?

So General Atlantic is part of the joint venture. Firstly, because we think they can contribute to the value creation. They have, as you might know, been part of the original Springer/General Atlantic joint venture, which has been very successful, and they are invested in a number of other marketplaces around the world and have really deep know-how about that. And also, of course, a lot of experience in bringing companies to the stock exchange. Secondly, it was important for us to create a balanced governance structure where Ringier and Mobiliar would not be in a position of control. As you might know, Mobiliar is also a minority shareholder of Ringier and they have been associated now for many years. And with this shareholder structure, with 4 partners, each of them having a 25% voting share, we avoid such a situation where we would be a minority. And finally, for us, it is also very important that there is a clear exit strategy for all shareholders. And of course, that was a condition for General Atlantic. And in that sense, the stake that we have in the joint venture will become liquid. Eventually, once we have built a new company and realized all synergies and ready to bring it to the stock exchange. Jobs, JobCould have been a part of that joint venture. We have been discussing it. There are pros and cons. We believe that for a listing and more focused portfolio, portfolio is more attractive. And then also into the shareholder structure that it was easier to come to a conclusion that way. It's not excluded that we can still merge JobCloud with that joint venture before a listing. Personally, I think that JobCloud itself has a great potential to grow and to aim for a listing of its activities, a separate listing. JobCloud is also unlike this joint venture active outside of Switzerland being the biggest minority shareholders, 49% shareholder of karriere.at, the #1 job portal in Austria, with the fantasy of 1 day possibly taking over the remaining part from the founders. And a fantasy that there is a lot of growth potential around the value chain of the job classifieds that promises enough growth to -- new to the fantasy that JobCloud could itself be a publicly listed company one day.

Okay. And about the CHF 2.7 billion valuation of the joint venture, can you tell us who did this valuation? What method has been used to do this valuation?

It is not based on a mathematical method. Of course, we have analyzed the P&L statements of the merged companies as of now and the business plans. But ultimately, a lot of this valuation is driven by the synergies that we expect. And about 1/3 of the synergies we think is included in the valuation, but 2/3 are not. And in the end of the day, it has just been the set price from our side to make the transaction happening, and it has been accepted by the other parts.

The next question comes from [indiscernible] from [indiscernible].

I have 3 questions, one of which is somewhat detailed and frankly, less important and 2 of which are more important. So I'll start with the one that I consider somewhat less important, but still I'd like to bring it up. When I look at Slide 16 in the presentation, with sessions per month and a number of listed jobs per month for JobCloud, I just wanted to clarify whether that includes, both the JobCloud business and the karriere.at business from both H1 2020 and for H1 2021? And then I'll take the 2 other questions as well. So if you can cover them off in whichever order you think is most sensible. My second question concerns, were there any thought has been given as to in what way the proceeds from a prospective future listing of the joint venture announced today on a prospective future listing of the Doodle business would be returned to TX Group shareholders like by pursuing that natural thing in the event of a listing would be to spin off those shareholdings -- directly to shareholders. But I was curious as to whether any thoughts you can give on -- to this point. Yes. And my third question pertain to the share buybacks. Of course, this is the point that's the case we've done -- been discussed in the past. But now with a prospective enterprise value, some distance down the road, perhaps CHF 3 billion, one for the TX Markets JV. And of course, that's a price that GA is paying my prospective IPO would presumably comment a somewhat hard valuation if we look at sort of what similar businesses that are listed are valued at. The JobCloud business, that's prospectively another CHF 1 billion, if there's a CHF 100 million of EBT in the business, Goldbach, of course, CHF 200 million, the core business, et cetera, et cetera. So it really seems to me that at the present time, the cash on TX's balance sheet, it would be extremely hard to deploy it in a new subsidiary or in a new operating business at a higher rate of return than in TX Group's shares. So yes, just curious as to whether there is any impact on what we should expect around share buybacks.

Okay. Thank you very much for the question. We will start with Slide 16 about the listening of the jobs.

Well, it's very, very simple answer. It's without karriere.at. It's not including karriere.at. The KPIs, you see on Page 16.

And if I recall right, the second question is about the JobCloud and and envisaged IPO.

So both in the case of the envisaged IPO of this newly formed joint venture as well as in the case of a potential IPO of JobCloud, there is the possibility that the shares of the then new related companies will be distributed to our shareholders. It's not a plan, but there is this possibility. We have also already studied that possibility. There are some tax issues that would have to be considered at the time. We have not gone any further because for the moment, our job is, we think, to build these businesses, to build now a great company in the context of the newly formed joint venture and to further develop JobCloud. But of course, there are these options. And with regard to your question of the share buyback, yes, you're right. That would be very interesting from a strictly financial perspective. It is, in a way, a bit the problem of the [ shipment ] we would hope that this transaction that we have announced today will help us to show the real value of our group. And we hope that it will be reflected, overtime, in the stock price. And in such a scenario, our goal would be to further develop the portfolio. And by doing that, hopefully successfully further create fantasy and also sustainable growth and profitability to make our group an attractive investment case. If we are not able to do that, then, of course, we also have to consider what you have suggested. But the problem of that is that by further reducing the liquidity, we will make our stock as attractive, and we fear it would be sort of a vicious circle that we would then create.

Okay. Thank you very much. I hope that answers your question.

[Operator Instructions]

I think we are right in the time. And I guess, we will end the call. And as said, we will most probably hold an Investor Day in November. Thank you for joining. Thanks.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now over. Thank you for choosing Chorus Call, and thank you for participating in the conference. You may now disconnect your lines. Goodbye.