USA TODAY Co., Inc. (TDAY) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

January 6, 2022

US conference_presentation 46 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#1

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to Citi's Apps Economy Conference. I'm Jason Bazinet, I cover the Media and Internet sectors here at Citi. We have disclosures available to the right of the video player or under the Citi Disclosures tab if you're viewing this presentation via Citi Velocity. Very pleased today to have Michael Reed, Chairman and CEO of Gannett; and Doug Horne, CFO of Gannett. Gentlemen, welcome.

Michael Reed

executive
#2

Hi Jason. Thanks for having us.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#3

Of course. Of course.

Douglas E. Horne

executive
#4

Yes. Thank you.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#5

Of course. For investors that do want to ask a question, if you do type it into the Q&A field in the presentation, it will get relayed to me or you can just e-mail me directly, I'm happy to read your question to Michael and Doug as appropriate. And I think what we're going to do is have Mr. Reed start off with a short presentation, and then we'll pivot over to the -- some Q&A that I'll lead. So Michael, hand it over to you.

Michael Reed

executive
#6

Yes. Thanks, Jason. I thought a good jumping off point would just be to give everybody here today a little bit of a review of what it is, who we are and what our strategy is to maybe set the foundation for some of the metrics that -- as to where we stand right now as a company. So if we could flip the slide forward to probably the next few right there. So what -- we're one of the largest media companies in the United States. We have both the local and national business, and we have one of the largest media businesses in the U.K. as well. We are in the middle of a migration on 2 fronts, from an analog business to a digital business, and from a ad-supported business to a subscription-led business. We have 2 primary platforms that are driving our strategy and driving our growth in the future. One is our content platform, and that's driving our subscription business to consumers. And then we have a DMS platform. We call it the Local IQ platform that's really driving our B2B business. And in both of those, we are driving subscription or subscription-like revenues for the future, moving away from an ad-supported model, and of course, moving away from the analog business. We've had a lot of success over the last 12 months as we've executed on the strategy. Where we stand today, we have $1 billion of LTM digital revenues as of September 3, and those are growing pretty rapidly, so it's not anything to sneeze at. We have a real sizable digital business today that I think is being overlooked by The Street. We have more than 1.5 million digital-only subscribers. When we launched on this strategy a year ago, we had less than 1 million, so that continues to grow rapidly. It grew by more than 50% in this past year. We have 15,000 core digital marketing service customers on our platform. I'll talk a little bit more about that today. We have about $450 million of LTM EBITDA, too, so we're generating real cash using that cash to invest in our growth as well as to improve the balance sheet. Our DMS business is profitable. I know a lot of businesses investors look at out there on the DMS side are unprofitable, we're all banking on the future. Turning cash flow positive, we are already operating more than 10% EBITDA margins in that business. And as I mentioned, we're one of the largest media companies in the United States. We reach, on any given month, more than 150 million unique visitors to our websites in our apps across the country, and then another 30 million to 40 million each month in the U.K. So we're real sizable business, generally one of the top 5 media businesses in the country in terms of audience every month. However, we are the only one that has a very comprehensive local offering in hundreds of markets across the country. So a real transition underway. We're not in the early innings anymore as evidenced by more than $1 billion of digital revenue and the size of our digital subscriber base and our DMS business. So we're getting to the middle of the game, and then hopefully, in the next 12 to 18 months, approaching the late innings of the game in terms of the transformation. I just want to highlight our strategy real quick. If we could go to the next slide. This is something we put together about 1.5 years ago after Gannett and New Media merged back at the end of 2019, and this is what we're operating under. This is our manifesto, talks about our purpose and our vision. But most importantly is the second line here -- second row, which is our strategy. These are -- we call them our [ North Stars ], these are our operating pillars. Just running through those really quick. These haven't changed, they're not going to change. Number 1 is we're executing on a digital subscription strategy. As I mentioned, we've surpassed 1.5 million in the third quarter, and growth in 2021 is more than 50%. And we have some pretty lofty goals there, and so we're pretty excited about the prospects for this business. The second North Star, or second pillar, is our technology platform driving our digital marketing services business, our local IQ platform. We have a nice customer base in there now, good ARPU, great margins and huge upside. Just to give a little glimpse, so the potential upside. This is about a $19 billion spend in the U.S., the DMS business, and so our opportunity is tremendous. We have a little bit about $450 million of revenue today, so lots of upside as this -- as we penetrate further into the spend in the U.S. And this DMS spend in the U.S. is growing right now at about 9% per year, so that $19 billion will continue to grow. So it's a huge opportunity for us. Our third pillar is optimizing the analog business. It's still the nice cash flowing business that has a long tail to it and it's throwing off good cash flows, and we're using those cash flows to improve the balance sheet, pay down debt, invest in growth opportunities. And so we want to extend that to have as long as we can, and so we are doing everything we tend to optimize that business to keep the cash flows and to lessen the secular revenue declines that we experienced, although we will continue to experience secular revenue declines. It is still a good business, it's a very profitable business. And its useful cash flow, when you think about the whole scheme of our strategy in -- but as far as improving the capital structure, but more importantly, of growing our revenues, growing our top line. Number four North Star is our other category where we're leveraging our key strengths, key assets. Whether it's our market presence, our audience, our publications, it's really what we do to grow new revenue streams that leverage key strengths of the company, primarily our audience and our reach. Some examples of what's in this category is our Events business, which is a $65 million revenue business that we expect to grow post the pandemic. We have a business called Reviewed.com, which is very similar to other businesses out there you might be familiar with like The Wirecutter, The New York Times zones or Best Reviews that Tribune recently sold. We have a sports media group in here that has partnerships with the PGA, with NASCAR, with sports gaming company, and we have lots of hyperlocal sports content sites inside this category as well. So this is about $150 million revenue category and growing pretty rapidly overall from all these businesses, we're pretty excited about the prospects here. And then fifth and most important is our efforts around [ IDAD ] and to build an inclusive diverse workforce and culture that will really allow us to optimize the first 4 North Stars as well as return, and so that's one of the highest priorities in our company. So that's our North Stars, our pillars that we're operating under. It's our strategy. The impact on the company's performance in 2021 has been good. We feel very confident that we're on the right path. And so we're executing on this strategy, which is going to, we believe, translate into sustainable long-term revenue growth, customer growth, cash flow growth in the digital world, primarily subscription or subscription-like revenues. The other part of the value-enhancing opportunity with our company for our shareholders is the improvement in the capital structure and the repayment of debt, which we've been doing very rapidly. We've got about [ $1.4 ] billion of debt today, paid down from about $1.8 billion. We've improved the interest rate from 11.5% just over a year ago, we're now all in at about 5.8%. You can see our cash outflows on this page, and we expect those to decline by about 50% in 2022. So with the EBITDA of $450 million and $200 million or less of cash outflows, we're going to throw off significant free cash flow that's available for further debt repayment. Our goal really is to get our first new debt to 0, and our focus right now is repaying our Term Loan B, which is something that we're pretty optimistic about over the next, say, 24 to 36 months. So we expect to continue to accrete value for shareholders through the repayment of debt as well as accrete value for shareholders as we execute on our strategy and turning to a subscription digital growth company versus an analog ad-supported business. So we're pretty excited about all the various steps that can be seen going forward that will create value for shareholders. We feel like we're on the right path and we're not in the beginning anymore, which is also exciting. We're seeing real traction with everything we're doing, whether it's debt repayment or growth in our digital business and our customer base. We're continuing to throw off great cash flows that allow us to execute on all facets of the strategy. So we feel like there's great opportunity ahead and really a great opportunity for our shareholders going forward. So Jason, I'll turn it back to you to maybe get into some questions.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#7

Okay. Cool. That's a great overview. I guess I would start maybe if you could -- when I sort of think of the -- your firm prior to the Gannett acquisition, there were certain elements of your strategy, and you just reviewed sort of your strategy as it exists now. And I'd just love to know what elements of the strategy would you say have been consistent pre-Gannett, post-Gannett? And which ones have sort of changed either because your assessment of the marketplace has changed or Gannett just brought different assets and capabilities to the new company? Maybe we can start there.

Michael Reed

executive
#8

Yes. I think the -- what's changed is the notion of how important scale is to real sustainable long-term growth in the digital business. In the old company before we bought Gannett, we were doing a lot of great acquisitions, and they were driving near-term free cash flow growth because we had a lot of synergies and opportunities like that. But what we didn't have was the scale to really execute on a long-term digital growth strategy, both in the DMS business as well as in the Subscription business. So we determined that kind of in the last year before the Gannett acquisition, and that's what made the Gannett acquisition so attractive is it brought that scale to us. What hasn't changed though, what's consistent is the underlying notion that a digital subscription business and the digital marketing services business is where our growth lies, it's where our [ focus ] is. And that's on the back of local media properties that have been around for a couple of hundred years and it's on the back of great content, primarily local content that's actually unique [indiscernible] not to monetize.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#9

Okay. Super helpful. So I think most investors probably look at your same-store sales is like the best sort of aggregate barometer of the efficacy of your strategy. And you guys have had a few quarters of positive same-store sales on sort of, I'll call them, easier COVID comps. But if your initiatives are successful, what do you think is a reasonable time frame to get to sustainable same-store sales? Is that 2 years down the road, 3 years down the road? Or is that further out than that?

Michael Reed

executive
#10

No, it's actually probably about 2 years, Jason. You're actually going to see -- you're right about this year. We had some quarters where we did have same-store growth, but we're going to get some pretty easy comps [ COVID ]. What you're going to see, though, in 2022 is vastly improved same-store comps relative to what you saw in our business before COVID actually improved. Why is that? Primarily because we now have more than $1 billion of digital revenue that's growing. And we have, as I mentioned, $150 million of revenue coming from the North Star number 4, which is a growing revenue category. And we have a pretty stable commercial printing business which has a couple of hundred million dollars of revenue. So what you really have now is you're getting towards the end, as I said, the middle innings of the game, next 2 years late innings of the game where those businesses will be the dominant source of revenue in our analog print, advertising. In print circ will continue to be a smaller piece of the pie. So by the end of '23, we feel like we'll be in a position where the same-store revenues will show growth. But it's not a cliff, right? You're going to see improvements as we go over the next 2 years.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#11

Okay. That's super helpful. So I'm just going to go from the aggregate top line trends just to -- just focus on circulation. The circulation same-store sales were declining sort of low double digit sort of in the beginning of '21, and you got it down to sort of high singles in the second and third quarter. Do you expect continued improvement in those same-store sales on the circ side, specifically?

Michael Reed

executive
#12

We do. And there's 2 things in play there. But the single most important is inside the circulation same-store numbers is this growth in our digital subscriber base. And so that grew that, as I mentioned, that grew by more than 50%. So with over 1.5 million paid digital subscribers, that's now a $100 million revenue [indiscernible] category when we're growing rapidly. So it's making a meaningful contribution to overall same-store trends. We are also, as part of North Star number 3, highly focused on improving the performance of our print business and extending the tail through content, through customer service, through delivery, to pricing, all of those things. So there's 2 things at play here. One is continued digital growth, improving that overall same-store trend as well as moderating the declines in the legacy print business.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#13

Okay. So maybe I'm going to dig down from circulation overall just on the digital subscriptions. And I think you have a goal to hit 10 million subs by 2026, I believe it is, versus the 1.5 million today? Is that right?

Michael Reed

executive
#14

Yes. That's right.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#15

Okay. And what -- how -- I mean, how do you view that 10 million figure? Is that like a stretch goal? Is it something like you feel like you have pretty good line of sight on? Are there analogs that you can point to from other players that have made a similar transition that people can use as a reference point? Any sort of color?

Michael Reed

executive
#16

You know -- so a couple of things there, Jason. One is we had less than 1 million paid digital subscribers when we stated our goal to grow. And so with less than 1 million and aspirations for 10 million, I didn't really care if we get to 8 million or 9 million or 11 million or 12 million, it's fantastic growth versus less than 1 million. But for context, 2 things for context. One, The New York Times has stated a goal of 10 million, and we thought we are -- we have more audience than them, so why shouldn't our goal at least be what their's is, given we're bigger. And then second point of context is that our print had historically penetrated more than 10% in the market pretty these now kind of current digital days. And so with a 7%, 7.5% penetration on the digital side, we would be about 10 million in paid subscribers. So there was a bunch of things that went into the [indiscernible] making to arrive that number. I would say it's more -- at this point or at that point and even today, 10 million, is that the right number? I don't know. I hope it's 12 million or 13 million, or -- but it could be 8 million , but it's a lot more than the 1 million we had a year ago.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#17

And who -- as you sort of look at the customers that are signing up for this in that 1.5 million, are there any sort of -- is there a -- is it a broad sort of array of demographics? Or are you starting to pick out certain pockets, either sports enthusiasts or younger consumers. Who is the typical consumer that's signing up?

Michael Reed

executive
#18

The typical consumer signing up is still local. Just this past third quarter of this past year, launched a paid model for the USA Today. We launched our USA Today Sports Plus app, we launched a paid Crossword app, so there's lots of national plays that are going to influence our growth to 10 million over the next few years that aren't in that 1.5 million, so that's primarily local. It skews a little bit older. Not as old as our print customer, but 40-plus on the digital paid side. Our print -- average print reader is about 53, so we do get a little younger with our subscriber -- digital subscriber. But the opportunity for us is to be more broad-based in terms of the consumers we reach. And so that's a bit -- that's going to be a big part of our journey to 10 million, just reaching a broader segment of the audience than we do today.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#19

And I think it's fairly obvious, but I'll just ask it. I mean I would think on the digital side, your marginal costs are dramatically lower, right? So you can end up with presumably much lower circulation revenue but generate the same amount of EBITDA. Do you have any sort of rules of thumb that investors should keep in mind as they're sort of thinking about migrating from circ revenue down to circ EBITDA to get some rough guideposts?

Michael Reed

executive
#20

You know what we look -- Jason, we look at it more because so much of our cost infrastructure shared across all facets of the business, we -- and it's centralized, we really look at our overall EBITDA margins for the company, which today are in the low kind of 13-ish percent range, and we've given guidance that as we execute on our strategy over the next 5 years, we expect that margin to grow into the high teens. And so probably 500 basis points of margin improvement. But really, we share so much infrastructure on the cost side that we don't really look at or determine an EBITDA margin for circulation itself. As we become less exposed to print, our costs went down significantly because we don't have distribution. We don't have raw materials, we don't have production and so that will be a real win for us. But the price point for digital is a lot lower. So as you mentioned, the EBITDA should be pretty consistent because it's a trade-off, less revenue but a lot less cost. Though I think we're probably accelerating a little bit that migration away from print now because all of the -- most of the inflation pressure that we're seeing in this country, I think we're going to talk about that at some point today. But most of that inflation pressure we feel is on that -- exclusively on that analog print business, raw materials, distribution, stuff like that. So it booms us to move as quickly as we can away from that business.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#21

Okay. And on the business that's less important to you, strategically on print advertising, you also had some pretty small declines on those easy comps the last couple of quarters. What do you think a reasonable number is that investors should pencil in as this transition occurs [ percent ] your sales?

Michael Reed

executive
#22

Yes. We think secular decline in print advertising is around 15% per year.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#23

Okay. Okay.

Michael Reed

executive
#24

And we do think brick-and-mortar stores will continue to close across the country, I think we saw that today. I saw Macy's North Mall store closing. Best Fire -- I don't know Best Fire and Bed Bath & Beyond announced some store closings. I think you're going to -- as the migration to e-commerce curves, you're going to continue to see brick-and-mortar close, and that leads to secular decline in advertising in our print business.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#25

It's been pretty interesting. When I look at the e-commerce trends, at least in the U.S., I'm just using the census data. It's -- we went through this pretty consistent growth in e-commerce as a percent of total retail. We went through the surge during COVID, but it sort of come back down. And it seems like we're just on the same old, steady, very gradual migration to e-commerce. Is that a fair characterization in terms of how you sort of see it unfolding? Yes?

Michael Reed

executive
#26

That's exactly, yes. Very fair.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#27

Okay. Okay. All right. How about digital ads within publishing? You've shown really robust growth. How -- what are the sort of underlying drivers that are underpinning that growth? Is it just as simple as just the dollars are shifting from analog to digital? Or are there other things under the hood like better pricing, some of the big digital players take up pricing, or greater impressions that are getting deeper engagement from consumers?

Michael Reed

executive
#28

Yes. So a couple of things. But one -- the first one is the scale of the combined company. We now have a better offering from a national perspective. So with digital advertising is just under $400 million a year in revenue for us and half of that is national, half of that's local. And our national business is -- has grown 4 consecutive years, but really has shown stellar growth the last 2 years as we put these companies together. Our thesis of scale is going to drive revenue that's played out to be true. We're also seeing better pricing to go. CPMs for on the programmatic side have been strong, and that's, I think, a reflection of the audience that we deliver. It's a premium audience, right? So we've seen pricing on the programmatic side increase both locally and nationally, and then we've seen, with the total audience, real growth on the national side, that's been the real key strength in our numbers there. We're not banking on big -- of digital advertising being a big growth driver for us, though. Really, it's our DMS B2B platform that's going to drive future growth.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#29

Okay. Can we dig into DMS a little bit? Maybe you can -- for someone that's maybe newer to Gannett, can you just sort of explain what a salesperson, what their pitch would be to a potential customer to sign up for your services, what the sales cycle is like, what the offering is, how -- Maybe just put a little meat on the bone for folks to understand?

Michael Reed

executive
#30

Yes. There's definitely -- I don't know that I can do it justice in the time frame here. There are slides in our Investor decks on our website that show there's 40 or 50 products that we have for businesses. But what I would say, overall, it's to help businesses grow their customer base, retain top to their customer base, so find, convert and keep customers is the primary way to think about it. There's all different kinds of ways for businesses to reach the market and to look at what their peers are doing. We do all of that for them in our database and so -- on our platform. The real opportunity for us, though, Jason, is migrating into payments, e-commerce, CRM, that's where the real B2B kind of subscription-like revenue opportunities for us in the future lie, moving a little bit away from advertising agency-type model and into more of, really, a subscription model, so. Right now, our DMS business is growing at more than 20% per year. It's more, as I said, more than $450 million and has a great EBITDA margin. It's primarily a lead-gen business, super businesses that also not only helps to find leads but convert and then keep those customers, interact with those customers. And importantly, we know what the peers are doing, what's working, what's not working for the peers.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#31

Are you finding your DMS customers are existing sort of advertising customers on, like, various Gannett properties? Or -- and you're just over migrating dollars away from sort of your legacy print business and digital business over to this? Or is it brand-new customers that you've never really had success engaging with in generating revenue from?

Michael Reed

executive
#32

Yes, it's the latter. It's mostly new customers we've never been successful in engaging. And the way to think about it, the easiest way to think about it is most of our customers are service providers, which didn't engage with the newspaper, they engaged with the phone book. So home service providers, professional service providers, those are all new customers for us. Customers that we have in this business that have migrated some from the newspaper side is the large higher education institutions, health care, house [ keepers ] and the auto -- the auto dealers. So there are a few categories that have migrated all the way from print into digital, and what we've really seen is our spend with those guys has been able to grow, hence our ARPU is growing because we're -- we're doing an even better job that's more attractable for them on the print ad.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#33

I was going to ask, it seems like most of the recent growth has really come from ARPU lift as opposed to subscriber growth. Do you think that trend continues? Or do you expect a more balanced source of growth in terms of new customers and/or going forward?

Michael Reed

executive
#34

We do expect to grow customers. And what's a little bit misleading about our 15,000 customer number is the core customers of 15,000 today, if we went back to the year, was only 13,000. So we've actually had good growth. What we had, though, as we formulated our strategy going forward, there's a customer -- segment of customers we've migrated away from because the revenues were too volatile, and there was no EBITDA.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#35

Oh interesting.

Michael Reed

executive
#36

So there was about 2,000 customers we've moved away from. So we've actually grown our core customer base by about 2,000 or more than 10% over the last year. So we do expect the customer base to grow. I expect, Jason, though, as we migrate to more of a agility self platform with payments and e-commerce and things like that, that our ARPU will actually come down a little bit.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#37

Okay.

Michael Reed

executive
#38

It doesn't mean that the 15,000 customers we have today that ARPU will come down, and we're going to try to grow that segment, of course. But there's a whole another segment of DIY that will allow us to reach a whole new set in the audience we're not reaching, or the customer base we're not reaching today, that will probably come with lower ARPU.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#39

Okay. Have you ever articulated a target for the number of customers on DMS or no?

Michael Reed

executive
#40

We have. There's 30 million small businesses in the U.S., though, so we only have 15,000 today. So I think the opportunity is tremendous.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#41

Okay. I'm going to shift over to other, which includes commercial printing and your events business, USA Today Ventures. Maybe we can start with events. I mean, all the experiential stuff just got hammered during COVID. What -- what sort of trends are you seeing sort of right now? And I'll give you just sort of the buy side, sort of soft expectation for everything that's more experiential. Seems like most buy-siders think that we'll get back to '19 revenues by the back end of '22. Some investors sort of think maybe now '23 with this latest variant. But how would you -- and then I think on the concert side, some people are talking about so much pent-up demand that we sort of have a pretty robust overshoot before we get back to sort of normal. So how would you characterize sort of the trajectory of the recovery in live events as we move to some semblance of normalcy?

Michael Reed

executive
#42

Yes. Yes. It's an interesting question. So I -- our -- we are thinking about it as if we're at or above 2019 levels, the second half of 2022.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#43

Okay.

Michael Reed

executive
#44

But we thought that last year.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#45

Right.

Michael Reed

executive
#46

And then Delta hit.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#47

Right.

Michael Reed

executive
#48

And then as we started to get through Delta, we actually had a pretty robust outlook for Q4, and then Omicron. And so I -- we don't know, what we don't know. But we have been able to maintain our Events revenue different than a concert going-type events business, because we've been able to pivot to virtual for -- especially for our outdoor races because people have been able to do their own and then get sent their time in. And we've been able to have virtual high school sports to warrant virtual, Best of the Best Local Business Award. So we've been able to maintain that $60 million, $65 million of revenue through pandemic. That revenue, though, was growing. As you know, before the pandemic, we were growing at about 50% per year to get up to that $60 million range. It's kind of stayed flat for a couple of years. We expect to resume growth in 2022, especially the back half of the year. We are seeing some optimistic signs now, especially with number of people signing up for our outdoor races, so we're seeing some -- start to approach close to 2019 levels now for the first half of next year. So we're fairly optimistic about the Events business resuming to growth and by the second half of the year be something with -- pretty far above where we were in 2019.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#49

Okay. Okay. That other piece in other -- the commercial printing business, you talked about it earlier in your prepared remarks about it being a pretty stable part of the business. Can you just unpack that a bit? Like as we all think about, well, the sort of thickness of the paper, sort of shrinking as maybe the ads come down and there's some circulation challenges, why shouldn't people just draw a straight line between adverse print trends and your sort of -- your wholesale printing business? What's wrong with that?

Michael Reed

executive
#50

Someday, you will do that. Right now, so many -- we're one of the biggest companies with printing presses in the U.S. We only have about 60 now, but -- but we -- they're strategically located around the U.S. and they're all commercial printing businesses as well as doing our own printing. And so what you see is as other newspaper companies or other print companies get out of the printing game to save money, they come to us. So what you're really seeing, Jason, we are seeing volume declines within our current customer base, but we're signing up new customers. And so there's kind of a wash there. It's a flat category. And we think that's sustainable for a few more years and then you'll eventually see reductions in print, kind of fall through on that category. It's not a high-margin business, though, so we don't view that long term as -- It's a great way to leverage the press and not where have down time and you make a little money. It's not a high-margin business and not anything that is part of our long-term kind of play here.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#51

Okay. That's super helpful. And how about sports betting night? I think it was last year, you announced a new partnership. Can you talk a little bit about your thinking there and why you found -- why this partner is the right partner?

Michael Reed

executive
#52

Yes. So we reached more than 50 million sports enthusiasts a month, so we knew we had an underlying asset there that was valuable to this really hot space. Of course, we can't get into the sports gamble business, that's not our business. But it's such a hot growth space, and we know it's going to continue to be that way for probably the next 10 years as states legalize online sports betting across the country. So the best way for us to participate was to bring our audience to somebody who is in that game. We wanted a partner who wanted to build a brand as much as get customers refer to them. That was really important to us. Partnering with somebody like DraftKings or FanDuel wasn't that important because they're not trying to build a brand, they just simply want customers. We wanted somebody who really could appreciate the media side of what we do and the audience we have and build their brand as much as we build their customer base. So that's why this typical deal we did was the right one for us, and the ways we make money off this are threefold. One, we have a fixed $90 million of fixed payments over 5 years. We have 1% equity in typical that was given to us with the ability based on performance to get up to 4.9%, and we expect their business to grow. They're starting basically from scratch. And then so we would expect to own close to 5% of that business over the next few years. And then finally, we have a referral fee per qualified league that we send them. The first 15,000 leads we send them are covered as part of the fixed $90 million payment over 5 years. But after that, we get a per referral fee. So we look at 3 -- 3 avenues for growing value for Gannett shareholders, leveraging this 50 million sports enthusiasts database of people in a way that we couldn't have had before. And that monetization really comes across those 3 avenues that I just laid out.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#53

And how can investors sort of value any equity stake that you have in Tipico?

Michael Reed

executive
#54

Yes, they really can't today. I mean you really have to follow Tipico's progress. There are 2 states today, New Jersey and Colorado, they expect to roll out 8, 10 more states. My suspicion is that the IPO probably through a stack in the next few years, and there will be real tangible valuation at that point in time. There's -- there's really nothing in the next year or 2 that I think will be tangible other than us delivering on our performance and getting the equity in that company. That will be a monetization of being around.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#55

Okay. And you mentioned this a bit earlier, but on the inflation front, how should investors sort of frame both inflation as it relates to your cost, and what it might mean in terms of the prices that you charge either for ads or circulation or anything else in your portfolio?

Michael Reed

executive
#56

Yes. The inflation's impacting us with regard to raw material, our newsprint expenses are up, ink and plates. We don't expect that to be forever, those prices will come down over the next couple of years. But we do expect to see them consistently high again next year. Our distribution costs are up with the great resignation that the country has seen. It's a little higher for us to get carriers, so we're having to pay carriers more. Gas prices are high, so we're having to reimburse more for gas, so -- and the postage costs are up, so distribution costs are up. That is probably long term sustainable, which is why we want to continue to migrate away from doing as much print as we do today. But raw materials, we expect to come down. As far as pricing goes, Jason, we haven't really built -- we don't feel like we have pricing power on the print side, we'll pass fees along.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#57

Okay.

Michael Reed

executive
#58

We certainly do our commercial print customers. If we're buying their newsprint and ink and stuff for them, then we pass that on. For advertising and for prints, we -- we don't pass on the increases that we have. We have to just find ways to lower our cost structure so that we don't hurt our margin.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#59

Okay. You spoke earlier about the steady progress you've made on debt reduction, the priority of attacking, that Term Loan B. Should investors think of sort of incremental asset sales being part of the delevering process, or this is all just off of organic free cash flow generation and directing that towards debt payment sort of full stock without sort of being augmented with divestitures?

Michael Reed

executive
#60

Well, not EBITDA asset divestitures, but real estate. And real estate has been part of the core, what we've sold and used to pay down debt, as well as cash flow from operations. Going forward, it's more cash flow from operations than asset sales, although we do have about $50 million more of real estate in the pipeline to be sold in 2022, and that will all pay down debt. I mentioned on that slide earlier in my presentation, too, we have a couple of hundred million dollars of free cash flow this year that we'll throw off that will be available for debt repayment as well. So we do expect over the next 2 years to make substantial progress paying off most debt Term Loan B, which sits at the end of -- when we refinanced in October, it's at $516 million. Obviously, we've been paying down, so it won't look like that at the end of the year. But 2 years from now, we hope to have that as close to 0 as we can.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#61

So it's really interesting. I mean if the plan sort of unfurls the way you're talking about it. It's almost like you're going to be in a position where about the time that your same-store sales are inflecting positive, you'll be debt free, right? Am I -- Am I correct?...

Michael Reed

executive
#62

Almost. I mean, we'll have about $400 million. We did a bond deal this year when we did the refinancing in October. So we have $400 million of bonds that will still be there, kind of a 6% coupon. But relatively debt-free, yes. Well, I mean leverage less than 1x, and actually leverage less than 1x with we think growing revenue and growing cash flow. And we think there's a multiple re-rating at some point hopefully before we get there, because people see the progress we're making. We certainly think there's a healthy multiple re-rating. We look at where the New York Times trades and maybe that trades at a higher multiple than they should, I don't really know, but we're not even close. So I think there's -- re-rating that has to occur. And if you look back at the New York Times journey, over the last 10 years, you'll see very similar steps. They had a lot of assets, they sold Red, The Boston Globe, [ ok ].com, they're building, their [indiscernible] Massachusetts. They had a lot of things they sold. Do you remember the big loan they had from Carlos? And continued debt -- And they embarked on a very similar strategy as they went on the subscription path. They sold nonstrategic assets, they paid down debt to 0, and they're positioning themselves to be a digital growth company. We're on the same journey.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#63

Okay. What would be the -- I can imagine an investor that's using that New York Times analog and sort of thinking about investing in Gannett. I would think they would say, well, The New York Times sort of has an easier path maybe just because it's a national brand, and so it's easier for them to take that sort of marquee New York Times a brand and sort of push subscriptions out across the country in a way that might be more challenging for Gannett that's more locally-based. What would you say to that sort of potential investor pushback?

Michael Reed

executive
#64

Yes. So 2 things, where I think Gannett actually has a bit better opportunity than the New York Times. Number one, is our -- you can argue the New York Times, they have a certain way they go about their content and they have a brand that's built on that. But you could argue it's a little bit of a commodity rate. I mean there's -- that national and international news can be picked up in a lot of different places. Our local news business is not a commodity. Nobody else in our market's doing that. So every single day, our subscribers are coming to us today and will continue to come to us because local news, it is an important part of everybody's life in the community they live in. We think that gives us a better opportunity long-term because we're hundreds of markets across the country, reaching 150 million people a month. So that's number one. Number two, because of that local presence, and the fact that there's 30 million SMBs in all those markets that know us, it gives us an opportunity to grow our DMS business. So we have this whole other revenue growth category available to us that maybe somewhere that the New York Times doesn't have today.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#65

And then if someone agrees with your thesis that being local sort of confers a lot of advantages, and it's just a matter of executing, I'll call it, the New York Times strategy. Is there a company that you can point to in the local news space that is sort of the bellwether in terms of making this transition? Or would you describe yourself as the bellwether and sort of leading the charge among local? Okay, go ahead.

Michael Reed

executive
#66

I'll describe ourselves as the bellwether. I think New York Times has placed a path that shows that you can migrate from an analog to a digital subscription business, and I think that gives us a lot of confidence in our ability to do so. But we love the extra bells and lists we get being local with being able to grow our Events business, being able to grow our DMS business on top of the digital subscription business. So we're not reliant on only one revenue category for our future. [indiscernible]

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#67

Mike, this has been great. Great overview. Thank you for taking the time to spin to this, and I appreciate it. It's very clear, as always.

Michael Reed

executive
#68

Happy New Year. It's good to see you, Jason.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#69

Yes, Happy New Year to you as well.

Michael Reed

executive
#70

Thanks for listening in today. Thank you.

Jason Bazinet

analyst
#71

All right. Thank you.

Michael Reed

executive
#72

Bye.

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