Veeva Systems Inc. (VEEV) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Great. Well, good morning, everyone. My name is Craig Hettenbach, I cover the healthcare technology for Morgan Stanley. Very pleased to have CFO, Brent Bowman, with Veeva with us. So welcome.

Thank you. Happy to be very here. Oh, very loud.

Just for disclosure, I would point you to the morganstanley.com/researchdisclosures.

So with that, fresh off of earnings last week, I figured we'd start with the current demand environment. And if I take a step back, the life sciences space has seen some headwinds in the last couple of years and you kind of framed the environment as no better, no worse in the last 90 days. So I would love to get a sense, even if it's just between commercial and R&D, some things you're seeing in the business.

Yes. Over the last 90 days, we saw a continuation of what we felt over the past year. So specifically, a little bit of protracted deal reviews, additional deal scrutiny and the like, a little particularly more so on the services side of the business. But we thought it was prudent to -- that's all factored into our guidance that we assume that it's not going to get better nor worse. So that's what we assumed in our guidance. I think importantly, we serve a very large and growing industry, life science industry. And as Peter mentioned that he's sensing more optimism broadly across the industry really around the science. So seeing a year ago to today, additional optimism. So that bodes well for the industry. It bodes well for Veeva over the mid and long term. So we feel really good about that. That doesn't automatically translate into a tailwind to financials. But it will be a tailwind at some point in the future. So we feel really good about that. And regarding R&D versus commercial, your specific question, it tends to impact the macro a little bit more on the R&D, but more on the SMB emerging biotech side, and that's a relatively small percentage of our business, it's about 4%. But overall, we feel really good about the market we're serving and our competitive position.

Got you. And when we think about emerging biotech, I mean, there's green shoots and at least some optimism around funding and science, what are some things you're watching for a potential inflection at some point for that customer segment?

Yes. So on the emerging biotech, we -- as I said, it's a smaller portion of our business, about 4%. Over the past year, we saw a few more companies struggle a bit going out of business in some M&A. But we're looking for that the inflection of additional funding to drive additional demand, and that will impact our ability to serve them specifically on the R&D side. So we haven't factored that in for the current year but we're looking forward to that tailwind.

Great. I want to touch on just the TAM. At the Investor Day, you reclassified the $20 billion plus. And you also had some interesting disclosure, top 5 products are 60% of subscription, 40 products, 40%. So a very long tail there. And what I'd love to dig into is just what part of the market you're most underpenetrated today?

Yes. Really excited about the opportunity. So $20 billion TAM or about 15% penetrated overall. On the R&D side, we're only about 10% penetrated. So the R&D is about a $13 billion opportunity with clinical being the largest portion of that. Being a multiproduct company, we have more than 50 applications. So I'm excited about a lot of the applications. If you look at what's contributing to revenue today, it's in the most significant way, it's our products we launched 10 years ago. It's our documentation products like our eTMF product in Clinical, QualityDocs in Quality and in RIM submissions. So excited about everything else in front of that. So things like clinical data, our electronic data capture, it's the largest single application that we have and we've had a number of wins recently on that. So really excited about the opportunity to monetize that as we look forward. The quality suite is very large, QA, QC, things like our LIMS, laboratory information management system products. So really excited about that. Safety is another area. So what you're hearing from me is broad swath of products becoming the technology foundation for drug development, connecting clinical to regulatory to quality manufacturing to pharma-covigilance on the safety side. So really excited about that. Cutting across now over to the Data and Commercial side of the business. Our Data Cloud business, we have a very clear strategy, and we have just launched a number of products on our Compass suite. So very early there but a big opportunity and we're embarking on our Vault CRM migration transition. So making really good progress there, and that will allow us to sell additional products in the future like marketing automation, patient CRM and service centers. So you can sense by what I just described how broad the opportunity is.

Yes. That's great. And we'll certainly come back and dig deeper on some of those from a growth perspective. I did want to spend some time on just Vault CRM migration. And just starting with kind of how the company thought this was the right move in terms of moving customers over.

Yes. So we had to make a decision. We had a renewal coming up, 2025 renewal with our current platform provider. And our decision was looking at 2030 and saying, what's best for the industry and our customers and what's best for Veeva. And the decision was owning and controlling the platform and the application was really important. And why is that? That gave us -- that gives us the flexibility to innovate where we think there is an important need or gap for the marketplace. So that's the basis of the decision. And now you kind of fast forward, we're executing extremely well. We already have a customer live. We will have -- we're GA in our product, our Vault CRM product in April. We'll have full functionality by the end of the calendar year. So all that work we've done over the past 15 years with Veeva CRM, we will have that in Vault CRM by the end of the year. We have 3 top 20 commitments to migrate from Veeva CRM to Vault CRM. And we had Bayer and GSK on stage with us at our summit a few months ago, and I think GSK said it best because they were asked, why are you doing this? Why are you making this commitment? And they said, it's a solved problem. It's a complex problem, and it's solved. It's not a commodity. Why would I do anything else? So we feel good about the momentum. We feel good about the execution, and we're talking to all of the top 50 enterprise customers and those are all progressing really well.

Got it. And on the heels of the 3 early adopters, how do you think more broadly about just the shape of the migrations because this is on a multiyear basis?

I think it'll follow a traditional bell curve. You're always going to have your cohorts of early adopters and you're going to have your laggards and you're going to have everybody in the middle. So the expectation is the migration. The sweet spot of the migration time frame will be calendar '26, '27, '28. That's how I would think about it. So we're focused on making these migrations as efficient and effective as we can. We're focused on building tooling that will allow that to happen. And we're working with some of the early announced customers in their environments, testing out our tooling such that it's ready for prime time when we need it starting in calendar '25.

Got it. And on the call last week, you talked about some increased investment in services. Can you maybe just touch on that in terms of the feedback you're getting from customers and what you're trying to do to kind of help them along?

Yes. So we made a subtle announcement that we felt it's right to share in the investments that our customers are making with the migration to Vault CRM. These are customers that don't just have Vault CRM. They have Veeva CRM. They have a number of applications. So looking at the long-term relationship, looking at how strategic these customers are. We felt it was right to share in some of the upfront investments. And the analogy I would use as you're prepping for a migration, you're moving your house, you have your garage, you need to clean up, you have your closets, you need to clean up. So we're going to help them with some of that preplanning and that cleanup work that we're doing.

Got it. What do you think have been some of the shortcomings of the competitors that have really failed to make any dent and certainly, IQVIA is most public but just what are some of the things where has entrenched our position in the market?

It's -- I think it's underappreciated how hard it is to build an industry-specific CRM for life sciences. I mean if you think about it has to meet the regulations of Japan and Brazil and Germany, which are all different. It has to meet the needs of the state of Ohio, which is different than the state of New York. How you handle samples, how you share content in a highly regulated way, it's deep, it's hard. And I think what you've seen, we had a competitor who tried to build on top of force, and it didn't work out so well because it was hard. We lost a couple of customers and guess what? They came back to Veeva because they lost time. They lost time and efficiency in that move. So I think that's underappreciated how deep and complex the application is.

Got it. And so that competitor had health care domain expertise but struggled with software. You also have someone like Salesforce that's interested in this and has more software versus healthcare. So would you compare and contrast in terms of different approaches?

Yes. I don't want to get into the specifics of the competitors but you have one that wasn't an enterprise software company. So it's hard to do enterprise software that's not at your foundation. And then you have another company that is predominantly a horizontal provider and this is very deep specific industry requirements. So both different and have unique challenges.

Okay. I want to switch gears just to the add-on modules, which has been an important growth driver in CRM and just current state of where penetration is for Email, Engage, PromoMats?

Yes. So we did try to break this down a bit on our earnings call we had. It feels like it was a month ago but it was actually last week.

I know that's the only.

So we called it the CRM suite of products, which I want to make sure we're aligned on the definition of that. So that's core CRM and the add-ons, what you described as Approved Email, Engage, Align, closed loop marketing. We said that that business is going to be stable over the next couple of years. So not a big growth driver but stable until we get through the Vault CRM migrations, and then we'll expect that to uptick again with the expansion of additional add-ons and things like Marketing Cloud and the like. The piece that's growing very nicely is the other Commercial business. So we said it's growing at about 15% in our guide for fiscal year '25. And what are the drivers within that? So things like our Crossix marketing analytics business is a nice growth driver. Our Link Key People, so think about key opinion leaders, what they're doing, what they're saying, where they're going. That product is contributing nicely. And then still our PromoMats, promotional material content products is growing nicely. So that portion of the Commercial business is a nice driver right now for growth.

Got it. And then at Investor Day, you highlighted marketing automation is a new product. Can you just talk about what you're maybe looking to do in that market versus other offerings in that space?

Yes. I think I would take it up a level and say what are we doing in Commercial overall? So it's more than just a core CRM. We're looking to create a unified set of applications, including marketing automation, service center and patient CRM all in a single database, which is very different today. Today, you have your market automation separate from your CRM. So think a bit like HubSpot that's kind of the direction and the approach we're taking here. So it's a different approach, very focused on the needs of life science. And we have some work to do but we feel really good about the opportunity and the strategy that we have in place. We think it's the right strategy to drive true value back to the industry.

Got it. And just coming back to Crossix, you mentioned that part of the 15% growth in the part of Commercial that's growing nicely. There's a lot of digital platforms out there. So I just wanted to dig in a bit in terms of what you think separates Crossix from other offerings in the marketplace?

Yes. Crossix is a data and analytics platform really helping marketing organizations assess their spend, really that's at the highest level. So we have two major pieces of this. One is the measurement optimization piece. So it's really getting deeply into return-on-investment analysis for their campaigns and their spend. So that's been a nice growth area for us over the last couple of years, and we expect that to continue. A secondary piece of this is audience targeting. It's a little bit more discretionary, a little bit more variable, but still a focus area for us. And what's different is Crossix has some deep technology IP that helps us do this at a deeper level. So it's a nice business. And by the way, Crossix, which we purchased 4 years ago, we purchased it for its business itself but we also purchased it with the foresight that it's going to be the foundation of our Compass products. So Compass, the foundation of it is based on the Crossix technology.

That's a great segue because I want to dig into Compass. But just before we do, when we think about Crossix specifically, how do you think about kind of a multiyear growth trajectory of that type of business?

Yes. Crossix was the one business that was -- okay.

Sorry about that. So the question is for Crossix, the multiyear growth trajectory.

Yes. So Crossix was an area that was impacted by the macro product, probably the most when marketing spend got a little bit more tight in calendar '22. What we've seen is a bit of strong execution and additional growth contribution in fiscal '24, and we expect that to continue into fiscal '25. So we see that as a nice growth driver as we look forward in our Commercial space.

Got it. So moving over to Compass, how important is -- you have the full suite available now, right, in terms of driving that growth? And importantly, what you're doing to differentiate from IQVIA? Can we just talk about kind of where you're at in that business and how it might look like over the next couple of years?

Yes. This has been a journey. This is a hard space. There's an incumbent that's been doing this for decades and controls most of the market. So we launched our longitudinal patient offering about a year ago. It's in the marketplace. But to truly compete, we also needed prescriber and national projected data. So we're really pleased that we announced Prescriber National in January. So what that means is we have the full suite of data applications to be able to compete with IQVIA. So we feel really good about that. So how we're going about that and why we think we're going to win? It's a simple formula, better data and better delivery. So why do we think we're going to have better data? So we're taking a technological approach to that. We have a multi-vendor sourcing strategy. And some of the technology that we acquired from Crossix allows us to match data prior to it being identified, which is different than what others are doing in the marketplace. And then we can pull it across in a privacy safe way. So we have a multi-sourced strategy, we're using technology, we think that's going to provide better fidelity of the data, thus better data. Then I talk about better delivery. We're going to give you the full therapeutic area data set. We're not going to sell it by the slice and it becomes really hard and confusing for the customer. And also the data is going to be refreshed on a daily basis. So versus what's in the marketplace, it's not refreshed on a daily basis. So better data, better delivery, and we feel really good about all the work the product team has done. We have some early wins with top 20s at a brand level. How this will likely play out? It's going to take time. It's not like you're going to go swap out your data assets you've had in place for decades. For the top 50, it will be at a brand level. And the simple analogy is it will be a bake-off. We'll come in with our data set, competition will come in with their data set, the best data wins. You win 1 brand, then you do another brand. You win 2 brands, you win 3 brands. At a certain point, there'll be a tipping point. And then you have the opportunity to do a displacement. But this will take time. This is immaterial revenue today as you look out '26, '27, '28 through '30. We expect this to be a material contributor to our financials.

Great. Can we dovetail this into just AI and your strategy there, like how important data could be over the longer term?

Is AI a topic?

I know we should have got to it earlier. So let's talk about AI.

So our approach to AI is we're taking a data focus around this. So two really pieces to the equation. One is we sell high-quality data. This is our Data Cloud. And this is connected data at a deep and foundational level. So our data attributes that we have in Compass versus Link versus OpenData versus Pulse, we want to make sure they're the same. So consistency across, and we think this will drive efficiency and agility within our customer base. And we think this will be a good foundational starting point for AI for our customers. So that's one piece of it. The second piece to it is our direct data API. If you think about our customers, they create a lot of transactional data in our core CRM. So we want to make sure our customers can access this in a very efficient, effective way. So we've created this direct data API that allows data to be extracted at a much higher velocity rate so -- than in the marketplace. And we also think this will help from an AI perspective. So we're focused on getting the data right, the integrity of the data, the foundation of the data. Will we do some other -- some applications and broader across our portfolio? Yes, we will. We've done a few in the past. We've done -- we have an eTMF bot in clinical -- our clinical operations space. We have a regulatory bot in the regulatory space. And we'll do those as we see a use case that makes sense. But our focus is to enable AI through our data.

Great. All right. Let's switch gears to R&D. The guidance for this year is around 20%, 21% kind of normalized growth. If I look at clinical trials, they've been growing around 10%. So you're well above that. And I would love to touch on just the breadth of the business and the influence of market share gains that's helping to drive the growth in R&D?

Yes. So R&D is a very exciting area. So this is the largest part of our addressable TAM, our total addressable market, it's about $13 billion, and we're only about 10% penetrated in this area. Broad swath of products. We talked about being the technology foundation for drug development. As I mentioned earlier, all in the Vault platform, connecting clinical ops, clinical data to regulatory, to quality, to safety. I mean you have a choice as a life science company. You can buy into this unified approach best point solution all connected or you can buy point solutions and try to stitch them together. So that's a choice. And I think that customers are speaking and you saw a number of announcements of top 20 wins in our Q4 quarter broadly across our portfolio and broadly across our customer base. So clinical data is a very large portion, probably our single largest opportunity. So very excited about the breadth of the portfolio, the opportunity and our execution.

Got it. And then there's some new applications that I think about RTSM, ePro, Safety. How should investors think about that just layering on to the growth over the next number of years?

Yes. It's a good question. So we used the analogy and I know you probably have heard this before, is planting the seeds for growth. So what's contributing today to -- in a material way to our revenue, are those seeds we planted a decade ago, our documentation products. So then you kind of fast forward and you look out some of our largest applications that we have on the market are still very early. So you mentioned RTSM, so randomization trial supplier management, think about how you mix placebos with medicines and how you get that to patient in an appropriate way. If you do that wrong, there's real problems, right? So, we're early in that space but it's a big opportunity. We have the right products. So I feel really good about that. And then you mentioned ePro, which is electronic patient reported outcomes. So this is where our vision of connecting the sites, the sponsors and the patient in a very efficient, effective way. So early days there but the product is in really good shape. So those will be growth drivers as we look further out in time. Safety is another area, very complex area. If you get safety wrong, there's health risks involved in that. So we have two top 20s in that space. Still early days. We have a global top 20 globally live. So we've proven that our software is ready for prime time there and that early adopter cycle can start kicking in and that reference selling.

Great. In EDC, you announced two more wins last week, so that brings 8 of the top 20. Can we touch on just the ramping style of these wins, what that means from a visibility perspective and similar thing like they start on some trials and expand, how do things look like in the coming years?

Yes. So couldn't be happier in EDC. So as you mentioned, we have 8 of the top 20. So let me explain what that means. So that's 8 top 20 customers committing to starting all new clinical trials on Veeva's EDC software. So really important. 5 of those 8, we've had wins in the last 12 months. That is at a pace where we haven't seen before. So 5 top 20 wins in a 12-month window. So really executing well. Now these are structured typically by your enterprise customers as predefined multiyear ramping ELAs. So they'll start out small in year 1, and then they'll ramp year 2, 3, 4, it's usually 4 to 5 years before you get to terminal value. So those wins, those 5 over the last 12 months have not meaningfully contributed to our financials at this point but they will as you look out and they ramp in the future. I guess maybe to add a few, why are we winning? And it's a simple formula but it's hard to execute. We have a better product. And why would I -- why can I say that? A couple of things that you would want to measure if you think about an EDC offering is how quickly can you get a trial up and running? We can get a trial up and running in half the time of the existing competition in the market. Another important piece is there's often amendments to a trial. So then how do you process those amendments? We can process those amendments live in our application without taking it down where the norm is you have to take your application down, you have to port it over to another database. And those 2 elements right there are very critical and the customers are speaking because we have now, like I said, 8 of the top 20, and we do expect to be the market leader in this space.

Got it. And so you mentioned some of the things that are resonating. If I think about companies like Metadata and Oracle in this space, are you seeing much change in the competitive landscape? It looks like you're moving the ball forward but just how are competitors behaving in this market?

Yes, it's hard when you have an architecture that's been in place for so many years to try to pivot. So we have not seen any technological counter to what we're doing in the space. And I think it's reflected in the market share that we're winning.

Got it. I do want to switch gears and just talk about industry regulation. There's a lot of attention on the Inflation Reduction Act. And just -- I know it's early, they're still back and forth between the government and pharma companies. But just anything you hear in your engagement with customers in terms of things that they're doing in their business as they prepare for that?

Yes, it's still early but what we're hearing is you're hearing life science companies trying to evaluate their development priorities. Do they do small molecule? Do they do large molecule? How to live for the trade-offs in making those decisions. And we're working, obviously, with our customers around that. Now one thing that we've seen historically, there's always been new regulations. So having a new regulation isn't a new thing. But what we've seen historically, it's been neutral to positive to Veeva over time, historically. That doesn't mean it's always the rule but historically, on average, that's been the case. And why is that? Because with new regulations, you have new processes, you have new requirements and you use technology to help with that, and we're a big technology provider. So we see that as like I said, on average, neutral to positive. So time will tell on this one. It's a bit early.

Okay. So let's switch gears to margins. I think that was one of the highlights of the report last week. You guided margins well above the street, 39% this fiscal year. You also have a floor target of 35%. So what are some of the things that are driving your margin expansion in this fiscal year?

Yes. Really pleased with the execution. And I think it comes down to a few basic things. We have a very consistent operating model that has been in place for every product that we launch. And it starts with -- it's basics but it's really important that you execute. So clear correct target markets, focus on product excellence, focus on getting customers live and happy, and then the reference selling model kicks in. So that operating model we get leverage out of and we'll continue to get leverage out of that operating model. The other piece is the power of Vault, the power of the Vault platform, building incremental applications on that. Each application we build, we have -- we get a little bit more efficiency out of that. And I would say just disciplined focus hiring. If you look at the last few years, we've hired and we're going to continue to hire but we're focused and disciplined. So those are some of the contributors to our op margin at 39%. So we feel good about it. There's more leverage in the model but what will make trade-off decisions whether we reinvest that leverage at a future point in time.

Okay. And one of the things the company talked about is just implementation excellence. I'm just curious how that came about? I know sometimes there's things already happening at companies and now you kind of talk about it. But just what are some of the key drivers of that and what it means?

Yes. Implementation excellence is something that we newly announced that we've been thinking about. And the thought behind it is how do we make these implementations as efficient and as fast and cost-effective as we can. And how we're going about that is having product and our services team work extremely close together to ensure that our products are optimized for delivering and customer success. And why do we think that's important? Well, obviously, it's clear why it's important to the customer, right? They can implement it more efficiently and a quicker pace. But from a Veeva's perspective, it will allow, we believe, customers to adopt our products more quickly as well. So it allows that flywheel to pick up as well. So it's a new effort that we're focusing on, and it will take some time, and we're working on that this year.

Got it. And you mentioned disciplined spending, you kind of zig well to zag in the last few years, right? A lot of companies were laying people off, and you were hiring at a really nice pace and have slowed that recently. So how are you thinking about that in terms of staffing levels and what the implications are for the business?

Yes, you're right. So if you go back a couple of years, a number of companies were doing layoffs and doing hiring freezes. We consciously were double downing on hiring for growth and the opportunity in front of us. We saw the market was ripe to get an advantage and we feel that in difficult times, really good companies get stronger. So we focused on hiring. So you're right, we added about 1,000 net heads and a couple of the 2 preceding years. And now you fast forward where we are, you've seen it moderate a bit the last 2 quarters, our hiring. And that's because we looked at all the hiring we've done, and we're like, we have really good people, we have the capability, we have the capacity to execute on our goals that we have in front of us. Now that it doesn't mean that we're not going to continue to hire because we are. We expect to add net heads during the course of the year. But we're going to do that in a focused, disciplined way.

Got it. I have a few more questions to get through but I do want to offer the opportunity for investors in the audience. If you have a question, you can raise your hand, they'll bring you a mic.

Do you mind going back to the question on AI, it sounds like you're taking the approach of really enabling, cleaning up the data, letting customers get the data so they can then build AI applications on top. I guess, why not take more of a role in determining what the -- where there's value-add applications to be written with AI yourself?

Yes. So our focus is really -- I mean we're a company of focus. So we think it all starts at the foundational layer, which is the data set. And we have a unique data set relative to the industry. So that's our focus. And we think it's, over time, we may play a larger role on those applications that can be built on top of the data but for now, that's our focus.

So I think you guys have been very consistent on capital allocation with a focus on M&A. And I think across the software landscape, you've really been one of the better acquirers. But in your history of a public company, you've done less than $600 million of deals and you have $4 billion on the balance sheet, and you're going to do over $1 billion of free cash flow. So given the really strict requirements, why not look for other uses of that capital?

Yes. So we do have those discussions. So it's a frequent discussion point we have around capital allocation. We feel that the right thing to do today is to focus on that growth. And that is focused on M&A. And you're right, the largest acquisition we've done is Crossix. It's a $400 million, $500 million single acquisition. And it doesn't mean that we won't take a different approach in the future. But today, that's our focus on M&A. And when that changes, we'll be sure to communicate that out. And I assure you, we're having those conversations around what's the right use at leadership and at the Board level.

Okay. Thank you for the discussion and for the extra color across the divisions. So time is money, time to market speed. You've approached the business across so many different priority sets, business areas, Commercial versus Clinicals, versus marketing, et cetera. As the product line now has become that much more comprehensive across the organizations, you've got the big customers live now deep into the clinical process. Where are you in being able to present to the life science industry that overall time-to-market, cost-to-market savings? Up and down, a Clinical priority set or a Clinical to Commercial priority set, right? You can see the -- they can see the ROI at their functional areas. But if you look now across your capability set, what can you say to those customers in terms of this is now what we offer, and this is the collective economic value that we can provide? Makes sense?

Yes. No, it does make sense. And I think it depends on at what level you're talking at a customer level. So at the C-suite higher levels, clearly, they see the power and the efficiency broadly across. They're different disciplines within the life science, and it's clear. It's clear the time savings they get. And each customer is going to be a little bit different. So there's not a magic formula that you could say you get X percent or X dollars but it's sizable. It's a sizable efficiency gain. As you work down to the organization, it gets a little bit more siloed because then your focus on point solutions. So we have the conversations at both levels at that -- sure.

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It's significant.

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It was -- and I think it was really how quickly -- how much better the technology is, when they looked at the technology and they say, I can get a trial up and running in half the time, they can calculate the math on the significant dollars that means to the company. So it was really that simple. And to get 5 commitments in that short window of time is really compelling and it's a statement of the momentum we have.

As you wrap here, I just want to come back for a second just to capital allocation and M&A. I think one of the sticking points, private company valuations have been high. I know they're coming down. So if you can just touch on that. And then the second thing is just size and scope. You mentioned Crossix $500 million, like is there a range of potential deals that you would pursue?

Yes. First thing is we're a very disciplined company. So we're going to be thoughtful in our approach to M&A. And I think Peter laid out the framework on the call talking about first threshold is around products, the product fit, the product strategy. Is it complementary or are we looking for an adjacent market that can accelerate growth? The other piece of the equation that I think -- we haven't done a lot of acquisitions but I would say we've been successful in almost all of those because we think deeply about the people and the culture fit because you have to integrate these companies, you have to keep them going, you integrate them but you want to do it in a successful way and maintain the leadership. And most of the acquisitions we've done, those leaders are still in place and are leading big portions of our company. As far as size and scale, we're not going to be -- I guess, would be flexible in size and scale, if it makes sense. The bar gets higher the bigger the acquisition. So we're going to cast a wide net and we'll be disciplined in our approach.

Okay. I think we'll wrap there. So Brent, thank you so much for your time, and thanks to the investors for good questions as well.

Thank you so much. Thank you.