Ventripoint Diagnostics Ltd. (VPT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon. I'd like to wish everyone or thank everyone, for joining Ventripoint's Third Quarter 2024 Corporate Update. The purpose of this meeting is to provide an update on the company's progress since the last update earlier this year. [Operator Instructions] Please note the Ventripoint disclaimer regarding forward-looking statements. The 2024 third quarter financial report and MD&A were completed and filed at the end of November and are available on SEDAR. The company recorded sales of $64,507 and a net loss totaling [ $1,251,079 ] for the 3 months ended September 30, 2024. This compares with sales of nil and a net loss of $1,174,285 for the corresponding period in 2023. The increase in net loss was principally caused for the 3 months ended September 30, 2024. G&A expenses were $709,886 compared to $572,592 for the 3 months ended September 30, 2023. The increase in G&A was primarily due to increases in share-based compensation and travel costs. For the 3 months ended September 2024, research and development expenses were $270,516 compared to $408,586 for the 3 months ended September 30, 2023. The decrease in R&D was primarily due to decreases in salaries, consulting fees and the rate of scrap. For the 3 months ended September 30, 2024, sales and marketing expenses were $278,115 compared to $198,877 for the corresponding period in 2023. The increase in sales and marketing expense was due to increases in share-based compensation and advisory services. For the 3 months ended September 30, 2024, finance costs were $64,410 compared to $4,062 for the corresponding period in 2023. The increase in finance costs were primarily due to an increase in accretion expenses, a decrease in interest income. For the 9-month period ended September 30, 2024, compared with the corresponding period of 2023, the company recorded sales of $95,172 and a net loss totaling $3,858,523. This corresponds with sales of $7,781 and a net loss of $3,634,823 for the 9-month period ending September 30, 2023. The change in net loss is principally because G&A expenses were $2,002,304 compared to $2,116,675 for the 9 months ended September 30, 2023. The decrease in G&A expense was primarily due to decreases in salaries, professional fees, travel costs and share-based compensation. Research and development expenses were $777,424 compared to $872,718 for the 9 months ended 30, 2023. The decrease in research and development expenses was primarily due to decreases in salaries and consulting fees. Sales and marketing expenses were $1,065,796 compared to $701,134 for the 9 months ended September 30, 2023. The increase in sales and marketing expense was primarily due to increases in salaries, travel costs and share-based compensation. Finance costs were $103,929 compared to finance income of $7,910 for the 9 months ended September 30, 2023. Other income was nil compared to $64,594 for the 9 months ended September 30, 2023. The decrease in other income was due to contribution from the National Research Council of Canada IRAP program received in 2023. No similar amounts were received during the current year. The company recorded deferred sales for the 9 months ended September 30, 2024, of $76,772. This will be recorded as revenue when the clients accept the units. Cash used in operating activities was $2,665,385 for the 9 months ended September 30, 2024, compared to $2,812,122 for the 9 months of the preceding year. Cash provided by financing activities was $1,492,958 for the 9 months ended September 30, 2024, compared to cash used in financing activities of $72,958 for the 9 months ended September 30, 2023. Insiders, employees and contractors participated in the convertible debenture financing, as well as purchasing shares on the open market. A subsequent life offering was closed this quarter with subscription largely comprised of insiders employees and contractors. We've been able to maintain team structure and continue to pursue key objectives. The company is continuing to raise capital to fund its general and administrative expenses plus its development and commercialization activities. Management will reassess planned expenditures based on working capital available, the scope of work required to advance towards defined milestones and the overall condition of financial markets. I will now turn my comments to the year-to-date. Some of these comments will repeat what was previously communicated. BMS plus 3.2 -- version 3.2 is released for sale at the end of the first quarter. A key feature of this version is a hardware redesign that eliminated the use of magnets in the sensors. The benefit of this is a streamlined calibration process that saves time and enables smoother integration into clinical workflow. During the past 2 quarters, we have focused on the manufacturing process for the sensors and are now able to produce these in quantities that will address sales forecasts. Our team is in the process of upgrading customer sites and initial feedback has been very positive. For an example of this, please visit our website and via the video clip of a customer testimonial from the [indiscernible] Foundation Take Heart conference. The second system that we announced that was sold to Duke University has been sold [indiscernible], training is provided and the unit is now in use. In early May, we submitted BMS version 4 to FDA for 510 clearance using an expedited process, and we're advised to resubmit under the standard process due to the novelty of certain product features. This was achieved by the end of that month, and we received the review in August. To address several of the questions from that, we elected to engage an external company to conduct cybersecurity testing, and contracted a regulatory consultancy to assist with questions related to the AI. Our written follow-up is largely complete, and we anticipate receiving the additional information from these external parties within the next 2 to 3 weeks, following which we will submit our package to the FDA. This has taken longer than originally forecast, but we believe that completeness of information is essential to the success of the submission. In May, we announced a recruitment of a senior marketing executive, MAT&T [indiscernible] to provide leadership in defining the marketing function and evolving product management towards being market and insight-driven. The underlying rationale was to begin evolving our corporate culture to addressing unmet medical needs and ensuring an optimal product market fit. Since joining the team, Matt has worked extensively with both internal and external stakeholders to develop deeper insights into customer need and customer experience. He was assisted by an MDA internal [indiscernible] 4-month term and focused on characterizing our market and the competitive environment. We are continuing to work on developing insights and we're getting a better sense of how BMS+ integrates into clinical workflow, and held the advancements provided by version 3.2 and version 4.4 will enable better integration. Concurrently, we're also getting clarity on accelerating the transition of the use of the product from clinical research to routine practice. As we evolve from promoting the technology push to exploding a market pull, we are developing a stronger understanding of how to progress from raising awareness of BMS Plus, to actually creating excitement and clinician patients about the potential of our products. We're continuing to identify where the use of BMS Plus has progressed to routine clinical use and adoption, both in terms of procedure volume and user experience. In June, we announced the renewal of our agreement with the [indiscernible] cardiovascular and the expansion of the scope of our relationship to include 2D echo. We're now in the process of defining the 2D Echo project and commercialization plan, with the intent of announcing an integrated offering in mid-2025. We anticipate sharing additional information about this relationship prior to year-end. Our assessment and update of the commercialization strategy was largely complete by early Q3. And since then, we've continued to work with our commercial team and distribution partners to develop deeper insights into the sales model and process with the objective of removing friction from the sales process. We engaged a consultancy to guide us through the implementation of CRM and we're now positioned to begin integrating it with those of our distributors to provide a more seamless overview of the sales funnel. The CRM will also provide better forecasting and resource allocation. In Q3, we received a medical device license from Health Canada, which enables us to sell version 4 within Canada. Shortly afterwards, we noted receipt of the CE Mark registration which enables marketing of VMS version 4 within the EU, the U.K. and a number of other countries. Mid-Q3, we engaged a U.K.-based sales executive to provide leadership and accelerating the pace and scale of sales in the U.K. is working closely with our U.K. distributor, Cardiologic and has identified alternative sources of funding, which may be available to certain of our prospective customers. We're currently working to close the sale of several units in the U.K. and I hope to have these in hand by now. Our U.K. team understands the importance of securing these orders, and is working diligently to that end. And during the past 6 weeks, we've identified a good number of additional prospects for 2025. Similarly, we worked with [indiscernible], our German distributor to conduct demonstrations at a number of sites in Europe, of which it is believed that two sites will commit to purchasing three units in the near future. As with the U.K. team, we're working to close these sales as soon as possible. Within the [indiscernible] pipeline, there is another 18 demos planned for early 2025 that will be scheduled in Ventripoint better able to commit personnel and travel expenses. Beyond these, Angio Pro has identified several dozen additional prospects in the process of being qualified and progressing to demos. Our assessment of commercial operations in the U.S. has resulted in an updated approach for 2025. This is a very important market for us. The new program is intended to accelerate the adoption of VMS+ solutions and will provide a targeted support to healthcare providers, hospitals and clinics across the U.S. The new program focuses on, first of all, dedicated sales support so we're going to employ direct sales. Our direct sales team will engage directly with health care providers to validate our sales model and the process prior to the company engaging specialty distributors. Our team will work with customers to guide them through the implementation and integration of VMS+. Two, training and education. We're developing training modules and support resources for clinicians to fully leverage VMS+ for optimal patient care. This will also reduce expense in so far as much as this will be able to be done at a distance or online versus sending people to the sites to do this in-person. Number three, flexible pricing and financing options. Upon clearance of -- FDA clearance of version 4, the list price will be increased to properly reflect the enhanced value of that offering. Currently, customers will be -- or concurrently customers will be provided with a subscription option that will enable them to work within operating budgets rather than CapEx and will make VMS+ accessible to health care providers of all sizes. It also benefits Ventripoint by creating a recurring revenue stream. And number four, reference center program. Ventripoint Point will invite one or more U.S.-based customers to become partners within the new reference center program, which is focused on addressing clinical needs with new capabilities, and ensuring seamless integration of these into clinical workflows. In previous years, similar programs were announced. This one is different insofar as we are seeking collaborative and interactive relationships and not merely sponsoring service arrangements. By actively managing these relationships still serves anchors within our ecosystem. The next one is partnership opportunities. Ventripoint will expand on its relationships or partnerships with the [indiscernible] Foundation and the [indiscernible] Cardiovascular to develop relationships with other foundations, technology and service providers dedicated to advancing cardiac care. For 2025, we remain very focused in North America and European and U.K. markets. We're in the process of assessing models for rest of world geographies. We're working with a member of an Asian family office to assess manufacturing, distribution and financing opportunities in India and South Asia. We've also been approached by parties interested in distribution rights for China and the MENA region. This brings us to our outlook for 2025. As we come to the end of 2024, we're now in a position of having a significantly more capable and refined product that is better suited for routine clinical use. We have a clear understanding of the process of commercializing the technology and product, and what is required to reduce and remove friction within the sales process. We're in the process of completing our plans and forecasts, and I'm comfortable sharing that there is a clear focus and commitment to sales, with the intention of positioning for geometric growth in the coming years. The ability to execute on these plans is, of course, heavily dependent on the availability of capital. Throughout 2024 is for the commitment and resolve of Insiders team members and a number of dedicated shareholders, we've demonstrated the ability to maintain operations despite an extremely challenging financial environment. We're currently working to raise a $1 million bridge round for a convertible debenture offering, which will position us to work with family offices and private equity firms to acquire the growth capital necessary to support achievement of our goals and milestones. Ventripoint is a pioneer in the application of AI to Echo. We're continuing to show our leadership by providing accurate, consistent and reproducible results. Our image catalog and reconstruction techniques are unique. We can salvage poor quality images and we're able to address the challenges related to the [indiscernible] ventricle, which no other vendor can do. Our development team has clearly made strides in improving the form factor and the visibility of the product, while reducing the complexity of the hardware and cost of goods. Our technology and product road map includes ambitious objectives for the next 3 years and clinicians will develop a throwing confidence and trust in VMS+. We've made significant strides in 2024 and will continue to do so in 2025. I wish to thank you for your interest and ongoing support and trust that a number of you will participate in the bridge round. I'll begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions][Operator Instructions] There's a question here from Pierre. Can you please give an update on the current debentures offering? Yes. Obviously, it's a challenge right now with the debenture priced at $0.15 versus the market share price. We are in the process of addressing that and we'll have an announcement within a day or 2. Question from Thomas Yu asking elaboration on the recently closed sale to the Mayo Clinic. Yes. So this is obviously a very important sale for us. We're going to let it to be engaged with the Mayo. The unit was actually shipped last week. So we'll be down to install and train them in very short order. We've also followed up with a proposal for additional units and expansion of the relationship to something much more collaborative, and I would hope to have the ability to report on that in the coming weeks. From Thomas [indiscernible], what is the status considering the relationship with GE Healthcare? I met with GE in early September. They reported that we were the only vendor to actually successfully integrate on the Edison platform. They, at this point, have not proceeded with doing anything with that platform. So it's somewhat on hiatus. We're now seeking opportunity to collaborate with them within their sort of general echo business. John, are you planning to have a North American-based manufacturing and repair service provider? At this point, we're doing it directly. I think, obviously, with scale, we'll need to begin addressing this. We're quite confident of our ability to handle it internally for the next 12 to 18 months. From Matt asking for some context or details on the sales team in the U.K. and North America in terms on funding in regards to their engagement and roll out the reference centers. Yes. So in terms of the U.S., we had a number of distributors in years past when I came into this role, I assessed what was going on, and they clearly weren't aligned with our plans or processes. So discontinued those relationships for 2025 assuming that we can raise sufficient capital, I would like to expand our direct sales team. We currently have one person based in Nashville, Tennessee. So we would expand probably to 3 people. The intent here isn't to build up a sizable direct sales and marketing team, but rather one with critical mass that can really define the sales process, provide a certain level of customer support. And then with growing scale, they would then be managing the distribution relationships. So distributors really take sort of active management. So, as the company grows and the salespeople would evolve more into sales management positions. Within the U.K., much smaller geography. We have a very experienced person on board now. So I think he will be able to stimulate a fair amount of effort and develop some additional opportunities, which our distributors should be able to exploit. I think, in terms of the reference center program that I described, it's essential that we do have a very close and interactive relationship with these sites. And I think the salespeople are obviously well positioned to be the the key points of contact for that. [indiscernible], can you expand on the opportunity with Ascend? Is it to integrate VMS into their platform rather than direct sale of VMS units? Yes, that's exactly it, Bill. Earlier this year, we had announced expansion of the LOI to include 2D echo. I think Ascend is increasingly of the mind that we have a very unique opportunity with 2D Echo. They would like to fully integrate VMS into their technology stack. So this will evolve to being more of a licensing opportunity for them. This will be interesting. So our sales and revenue models will evolve to a mix of licensing and direct sales. So [ Ascend ] will affect a number of sales themselves through the licensing model. We'll be able to sell additional units ourselves to related institutions or hospitals within those networks. Rob, what are the biggest challenges you foresee when it comes to market adoption? I think, first of all, just market awareness. So we are making progress on that. Now, I think the second step really is affecting this transition from what we call research -- research in some cases is actually clinical use. These are very challenging or complexed cases. So I think with growing confidence in the system, we begin to see procedure volumes going up, greater confidence in the system and sort of an awareness and understanding that it will be applicable to a larger number of patients. So that's really what we're trying to transition through. This is the current challenge, and I think it's very addressable. Bill, is GE serious or do they want to block VMS success for reasons of cannibalizing the MRI business? Yes, I don't really view anything nefarious happening from GE. I think they've gone through a number of things. One was this initiative, I think, was done without the full buy-in of their commercial team or with their marketing team having developed a necessary insights to underpin it. So they're in the process now, I think, of kind of reassessing how to approach this. I don't think they're actively trying to block us and I don't think that they are concerned about us cannibalizing their MRI business. They have a very substantial echo business, and I believe that they would be looking for ways to enhance that. A couple of further comments on that front. Philips, as many of you are aware, acquired a company called [indiscernible] a number of years ago and have integrated that into their offering. This is -- this appears to be evolving towards being somewhat of a closed system. So for non-Philips customers, there's a growing sort of capability gap and I think one that VMS feels quite nicely. So I think as we go through the next year or 2, that they'll be growing interest on the part of GE towards VMS and Ventripoint. John asking, what are some of the challenges your Canadian sales team is encountering for VMS 4.x. Yes. I think the challenge right now really is just that we're a very lean team. We don't have a dedicated Canadian sales person. So it's really sort of time and effort on our part. Also, it's a reasonably new approval from Health Canada, the medical device [indiscernible] actually came through far faster than we expected. So we're in the process now of affecting market entry. We've actually provided the first update to version 4 in Canada. We'll be announcing this fairly shortly. So that occurred last week. So that's a positive development, and we're looking forward actually to expanding our scope in Canada. David, thanks for the update on the call. Can you provide more detail on how your sales process evolved as you brought Mayo Clinic on board? And whether we should expect a similar approach to other large health care systems or a more streamlined process now that Mayo serves as a reference site. So Mayo isn't formally a reference site. We're hoping to get them into the program. So stay tuned on that front. Mayo is a fairly lengthy process. We're looking for ways to accelerate that. I think now with the number of prospects in the pipeline that more of these will begin to come to the fore. The sales process in the past has evolved or has really required a number of site visits, multi-day demonstrations and training. I'd like to tighten this up considerably definitely in the capital equipment sales sort of functions I was employed in previous lifetimes. We could accomplish quite a bit of the sale prior to being on site and demonstrating the product. So ideally, I think I'd like to get to the point where we're able to do more of this virtually. We can arrive at a quotation that the customer is willing to accept and one that we've negotiated through interaction between the sales rep and the customer, following which the purchase order would be contingent on successful implementation. So ideally, one outside visit with a demo. So training, installation and sign off. So really, that's where we need to get this to. It will be more efficient, it will be faster and less expensive. Dave Simmons, you've accessed adequate funding. Line of creditor has been mentioned, and there's rumor of access to $2 million. So adequate funding. I think that's a relative term. We have ambitious goals. We have capital requirements to achieve those. I think we're fairly committed to the viability of the company. In terms of having sufficient capital to really execute fully on our plans, we're not there yet. So I think the idea here is that we raised a modest bridge round for this convertible debenture. This gets us a little better positioned. We can move faster on certain fronts. And it will also enable us to go on a road show and raise substantially more from family offices and private equity groups in Q1 of 2025. Question here, insight into valves. So earlier in the update, I had mentioned that we are sort of expanding the scope of application or investigating the scope of applications for VMS+. We're very excited about the opportunities considering valve procedures. If we have a minimum viable proposition that's going to be transformational for the company, I've been in the process now of engaging someone from the structural heart business, so someone with a multinational company, a leader in the area of valve replacements. He's going to work with us over the next 3 or 4 months and putting together a plan and a strategy around entering the valve business. We feel that there is a proposition around pre-procedure planning and patient follow-up. An advantage of this would be, if it works, that we are able to do this imaging using [indiscernible] echo. So in other words, doing standard echo through the chest wall, rather than subjecting the patient to a transesophageal echo, which involves putting a device down the esophagus. So faster, less expensive, far less traumatic to the patient. [indiscernible], on a scale of 1 to 10, given the enormous difficulty and changing standard of care in any procedure, where do you think you stand? You've been engaged with numerous prestigious sites lesions for years? Yes. I think this is obviously an evolution on a scale of 1 to 10, it's probably 3 or 4 in our case. I think some of the earlier challenges were related to the form factor and the ease of use or challenges in integrating this into clinical workflow. Definitely with the elimination of the magnets from the sensors that was made possible through version 3.2. We've been able to address some of this and with version 4 in the automation of some of the software features it'll be that much more efficient. So I think we'll begin to see increased traction. I think as well through this new reference center program, having closer and more interactive relationships with these reference sites, we'll be able to encourage more use of the product, greater procedure volumes and that will increase awareness and acceptance. [ Florin ], could you share your perspective on when the company might reach a point when sales are sufficient to cover expenses? Yes. So that's a critical question. We're in the process now of updating our plans. These will underpin the larger financing that we contemplate in Q3 -- in Q1. So really, I think what you're asking is when do we get to a positive cash flow. I'm pushing as far as I can to evolve the model where we could do this, hopefully, in late 2026. I think it's important to have ambitious goals, but ones that are achievable. So just being conservative here, we'll be able to share more on that front, I think, within a month or 2. But I think as things stand now at some point in 2026 is what we're driving towards. Question from Matt as to whether there's an update on the Board seat that's open? Yes, we haven't been in our wish to fill out. We've identified a couple of very nicely -- very superbly qualified people. I think in this case, we should be evolving to the point of attracting more senior industry experienced people onto the board. So that outreach is ongoing, and we hope to announce something within Q1 on that. Question from Mark. Will the FDA approval of version 4 in the U.S. unlock immediate sales? Or is there still lots of work to done before we see sales in the U.S.? So Mark, I think it's a process, and I'm a firm believer in the fact that we need to sell what we have in hand. So certainly, we need to push ahead with version 3.2. We can provide these sites with upgrades to version 4 when it is approved. I don't anticipate a Tsunami of orders, the minute we have clearance from FDA. We've still got to sell the product. And definitely, we're not able to actively market version 4 before it's approved in the U.S. So I guess to recap, we need to focus on selling what is currently approved and what we haven't had. I think some of the American customers, at least will be able to what's happening outside of their borders and connect the dots. I think definitely, the capabilities of version 3.2 are very attractive, certainly sufficiently attractive to companies like Ascend that they feel confident in promoting it to their customers. So any additional questions?

[indiscernible], I'm sorry, I'm driving, so I wasn't able to do it on computer. Can you hear me?

Yes, I can.

Okay. First of all, thank you so much for all your hard work. And it's especially nice to hear you so upbeat today, because, obviously, we're exposed to a lot of limit to money Internet and it's nice being [indiscernible] mouth and everything is flowing in the right direction. You have mentioned recently that you have listening very carefully to your clients. I don't know if that's people that already own the machine or prospective customers. But I am curious what you're hearing and what you're able to address on that? And I may have mentioned it, when might the resubmission on the FDA submission when might that happen?

Yes. So in terms of the feedback from customers, certainly, we've been able to work more intensively with them. I might share that we did bring on an additional clinical application specialists in the U.K. [indiscernible] was a very senior sonographer. So give me her [indiscernible] with Christina Almeda and Toronto has been very enabling for the company. They have a lot of credibility with the customers, and can definitely speak to them on a sort of a peer-to-peer basis, at least insofar as the sonographers are concerned, so I think they're able to really get much more direct and frank feedback. So there's that in terms of what I might describe as process. I think as well, the elimination of the magnets in 3.2 really eliminated -- it's kind of a roadblock both in terms of the registration or calibration sort of process or function before the patient study, just the reliability and robustness of the new sensors is so much better than the old ones. I think this has really eliminated a source of occasional frustration to our customers. So that's been quite helpful. Yes. So really, I think I think those things have been quite helpful in terms of getting better feedback and actionable feedback from customers. There's a question around steps in action -- sorry, you'd also asked about resubmission to FDA. So as I mentioned, we're taking a very cautious and conservative approach and I've engaged 2 consultancies to assist us with this. One is doing what's called a penetration test where we've actually shipped a VMS system to them, and they're looking at being able to hack the system. So we'll get their report back within -- now within a week. We also engaged a regulatory consultancy just to provide some oversight on the strategy and overall application. And they're going through our written submission right now. So we're fairly close. I think as soon as we get the additional input for that resubmission or reply, that will go in. Question here around what steps and actions are needed to convince customers to buy in bulk? Yes. So I think, again, sort of demonstrating the utility and value of the system beginning with 1 or 2 units and then expanding from there. I think if you look at somewhere like the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, they've got 40 echo rooms. Great that they acquired their first system. And I mentioned again, we do have a proposal to them for follow on with additional systems, but a safe stand now in terms of workflow. The practicality of staring that 1 unit between 40 rooms is probably not optimal. So I think that they will see value in having multiple units. It will sort of enable better integration into their workflow. Certainly, how patients are presenting to them is not always predictable. So they don't have total control over the ability to sort of dedicate a single room to a simple type of patient. A question here about Ventra sound. So that's a very timely question. We're in discussions now with them around the renewal of the agreement, which expires in May. What I have expressed to them is that any new licenses we enter into have to be under commercially normal terms. So we hope to have something that we can share or announce within a few weeks on that. So the -- again, the ambition there is that we come up with a commercially sensible agreement, one that actually sees revenue stream to Ventripoint. We would be looking for minimal revenues, minimal volumes. So it will be performance-based. Question from Rhon regarding the Ollie Hinkle Foundation. Yes. So we're working closely with them. We sponsored the virtual conference to take [indiscernible] conference. So I guess, 2 months ago, and actually had sponsored a presentation by Dr. Brian Soriano of Seattle Children's Hospital. Dr. Soriano prepared and delivered that presentation without really any coaching or support from the company. So I'd invite you to visit our website and open the link. I think it speaks very well to the product. And again, I think this is very sincere in his own words. So there's that. The Ollie Hinkle Foundation, I think, is really dedicated to supporting patients and families. A big part of their focus and outreach is really to do with the mental health and well-being of patients. These are young patients with disorders or defects that affect them throughout life. They need to go through numerous procedures, surgical procedures. There's a lot of anxiety. These kids have ADHD issues, anxiety issues. So much of their outreach is really focused on trying to address that and get family support. I think part of the attractiveness of VMS+ to them, is that this is a far more accessible modality than MRI, far less traumatic to patients, far more accessible in many communities. It doesn't require sedation or contrast. So yes, I think we'll continue to work with them. I think they're continuing to recommend us to care providers in their community. Question here is, to whether there's any political element involved with the extra step with FDA? I don't perceive that. I don't actually see this as an extra step. I think we're just having to go through a number of existing hoops. But again, I think we're just being very careful in terms of how we submit and making sure that we're not having to repeat steps. Question here from Dave Simmons on the $1 million bridge financing completion and questions around the difficulty. Part of the challenge, I believe, has just been that we're in tax loss selling season. So raising capital through a convertible debenture with a declining share prices provided a high level of challenge. We're challenged like every other microcap company right now. It's been an extremely trying environment. I think people and companies in this community are expressing that they haven't seen anything like this for probably 2 or 3 decades. We feel now that the company is very attractively priced. We do have already what I would regard as a lead investor or commitments in hand. So hopefully, this gets wrapped up in fairly short order. A question here as to, where we can listen to the recording after the call. Yes, I'll get on that. This is actually on my personal Zoom account. It is being recorded. As soon as I figure out how to share the recording and get it on to our website, we'll post that. Are there any other questions?

I would like to ask real quickly, it seems like the Canadian government would benefit greatly from healthcare costs and also [indiscernible] business in the country. Are brands an option somewhere along the line?

That is a very interesting question. So just to take a step back, philosophically, we're at the point now where I'm not really in favor of giving away product or donating product for research purposes. What I'm expressing now to investigators and prospective users is that we expect them at the very least to be subscribing to the product, if not purchasing it outright. The other thing we're hoping to do, ideally through reference center partners, would be to collaborate with them on designing multicenter trials or studies and ones where the grant funding would support the acquisition of multiple units. So if you look at Canada, for many of these sort of health initiatives nationally granting agencies with -- for political reasons, I think, tend to divide the country into five regions. So in a perfect world, I think, ideally, these study sites or study partners would be comprised of at least one center in each of those 5 regions, if not more. Well, I think at this point, we'll conclude the Q&A session. So I'd like to thank all of you for participating on today's call. I know some of you will have additional or ongoing questions, so please feel free to reach out either to myself or through the contact information listed on our website. Hopefully, this conveys a good sense of where we come in 2024 and the outlook for 2025. And for those of you who are interested in participating in the convertible debenture bridge financing round, again, please reach out and contact me directly. So thank you all, and have a pleasant day.