Ventripoint Diagnostics Ltd. (VPT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Well, good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to this corporate update. Before jumping into it, I would like to remind everyone that today's discussion will contain certain forward-looking statements and standard disclaimers to those will apply. Secondly, much of what we're sharing today is building on accomplishments that occurred during 2024. So therefore, some of the statements will be repetitive. Thirdly, we will be joined by a recent addition to our team, Karl Pringle, who will be providing commentary on commercialization and sales. And finally, we will take some questions at the end. And for those with questions, please enter those through the chat function on Zoom, and we will address those. So again, thank you for joining us. Very pleased to give you this update at the conclusion of the first quarter. In terms of technology and product development, much of this -- much of what occurred has really built on the successful development of VMS version 3.2. This version featured our groundbreaking magnet-free sensors. Following this, the team completed the verification and validation of version 4 and submitted applications to regulatory approvals -- regulatory authorities for approval to market these products in countries of interest. In the latter half of 2024, we received a medical device license from Health Canada. This was followed by the European CE mark, which enables version 4 to be marketed in the EU and the U.K. The submission to FDA in May resulted in a number of questions for which a decision was made to take extra care and engage external consultants to ensure the quality of our follow-up. As part of this follow-up, we engaged in a number of studies and actions, resubmitted or submitted our questions and supporting documentation, and we're able to secure the FDA 510 clearance in late Q1 of this year. The production process for these new magnet-free sensors included outsourcing manufacturer with subcomponent. As with many businesses, supply chains have been an issue. We went through a process of needing to work with this supplier to ensure consistent -- their consistent ability to meet quality and performance standards. We're now there and producing these in quantity and at the expected scale. Some of those units have been used to upgrade existing customer sites and to support new sales. The feedback from customer sites such as Seattle Children's Hospital has been very positive. We're now in the process of upgrading a number of customers to VMS version 4 with the objective of accelerating the adoption of the technology into routine clinical practice and increasing procedure volume. Higher procedure volumes are important to us because they contribute to increased operator experience, and this enables greater confidence in the system and the quality of the results. Throughout the process of product development and regulatory approval, our team has also been able to achieve successful quality and manufacturing audits. And I think this speaks to their dedication and expertise to manage these ongoing responsibilities while developing the product. Looking forward, now that we have developed version 4 and secured clearance or approval in markets of interest, we're placing a much stronger focus on customer training, installation and support, particularly concerning connectivity and clinical integration. Our team has been engaged in creating training videos, which will be available to users, and this will improve the customer experience. With the growing adoption of VMS+ for routine clinical use, it's important that we ensure very positive user experiences and improve workflow efficiency. During the past year, we've evolved the marketing function to include processes for better characterizing market need prior to committing capital to R&D. And to that end, the team is engaging customers and key opinion leaders and engaging in focused discussions, which are generating valuable insights, and that will help us ensure the optimal product use fit. Moving on to business development and partnerships. First of all, with Ascend Cardiovascular. During 2024, we announced that we had renewed and expanded our letter of intent to include 2D echo capabilities and also that we were working with them to conclude a license agreement for the integration of VMS+ 3D capabilities directly into their technology stack. The definition of the license is taking a little bit longer than expected, but basically, the relationship remains positive and constructive. We're both committed to building an increased presence in the U.S. pediatric sites in 2025, and we anticipate concluding this agreement sometime within the next month. The Ollie Hinkle Foundation, we're continuing to collaborate with them and anticipate their support of system placements, 2 of which are forecast to occur midyear. Asia, we're continuing to engage with the family office to pursue distribution joint ventures, manufacturing and financial opportunities in South Asia. With its large population, improved living standards and growing health care needs, this region is an ideal fit for VMS+. We've received inquiries regarding other Asian markets and are qualifying these against our business plan and objectives. Valvular disease, we are actively developing insights and plan to expand VMS+ use to include surgical planning and patient monitoring. We've recruited an industry adviser from a leading structural heart business, and we're currently engaging with KOLs to validate our assumptions and plans. The heart valve repair and replacement market is estimated to be approximately $9 billion with a very rapid growth. The compound annual growth rate is anticipated to exceed 10% through the next decade. Looking at the Ventripoint team, we're in the process now of expanding the team to support commercialization. This will require engaging additional people to the commercial side of the business to drive sales and growth. We've identified capable and very experienced candidates several of whom have been engaged on a consulting basis with the expectation that we'll transition them to a full-time role once sufficient capital is in hand. At the governance level, we've initiated discussions with potential candidates with deep experience in medical product development, commercialization and financing. Moving on to sales and marketing. In 2024, we greatly reduced the number of trade shows and conferences, which the company sponsored. This was in the interest of really optimizing our investment in these areas and really focusing on what was anticipated to provide the greatest level of return. We will maintain this discipline in 2025. We will be again attending the AEPC meeting in Hamburg in late May. This is a very important conference for us and is critical to sustaining and building our profile. This will be followed by the ACHD meeting in Toronto in June. For both meetings, we're going to be showcasing and promoting VMS 4.0. We're continuing to work with our European and U.K. distributors to close several sales. These were actually forecast to close in late 2024. The closings have been prolonged, but we're still pushing on these. Also additional virtual demos have been conducted this year-to-date and more are being arranged and on-site demos will be conducted as capital resources allow. In Q4, we disclosed the addition of the Mayo Clinic to our U.S. customer base, and we anticipate adding other prestigious institutions to the list in 2025. We do receive a number of inquiries from shareholders regarding customers. It's important for everyone to remember that we need to respect industry norms regarding disclosure. Many of these clients are top-tier medical centers. They're very protective of their reputations, and therefore, we require their permission to share names and logos. This can be a lengthy process, and we are working as quickly as possible, but do need to sort of respect their time frames. Given the importance of the American market, we've redefined our business and revenue model to more effectively expand our presence in the U.S. in 2025. This new program is designed to accelerate the adoption of VMS+ by reducing friction within the sales process through clear propositions, effective communications and attractive acquisition options. Karl Pringle will speak to this later on today. Since our announcement welcoming Karl to the team, he has reviewed the sales function and processes and has updated the plan. Upon securing growth capital, we'll accelerate execution of the plan by expanding the commercial team. They will be engaging directly with health care providers in the U.S. to validate the sales model and process. Once we have a comfort level with that, we do plan to expand through specialty distributors. The team will work with customers to guide them through the implementation and integration of our VMS AI eco solution. Last year, we had announced the creation of a reference center program with the goal of recruiting 3 centers. We have provided 3 proposals and shortly anticipate announcing the first site within this program. We expect being able to announce 2 other sites prior to the end of the quarter. The goal of this program is to actively collaborate with these sites to identify unmet clinical needs to validate VMS features and capabilities in real-world settings and to enable prospective customers the opportunity to see the system being used by their peers on patients. To ensure more effective management of these relationships, we recently announced that [ Dr. Nick Kratan ] will be overseeing the clinical affairs function. As we continue to push towards evolving our customer base from clinical research to routine cardiology practice, it's important not to forget the tremendous strain placed on medical systems by growing demands. Staff shortages are persistent at many sites, and this really impedes their ability to cope with the growing numbers of patients and the increased acuity of illness as these patients are suffering. VMS+ offers a faster, less expensive and far more accessible solution for many of these providers. Finance. So in the past year, we pursued a number of financing initiatives to support our growth and commercialization efforts. These initiatives were designed to leverage commitments from the team and insiders while avoiding unnecessary dilution. These efforts, coupled with careful management of our expenses, enabled the company to complete development and secure approval for VMS versions 3.2 and 4 and to close sales to 2 top-tier institutions in the U.S. We believe that VMS version 4 provides a much improved product user fit, and we're now focused more directly on sales and growth, which will be dependent to some extent on securing adequate growth capital. And to that end, we've engaged institutional investment bankers to assist with securing capital as well as marketing groups to increase awareness of the company and investment opportunity. As many of you are aware, capital markets were very challenging in 2024. And this year-to-date, we've been affected by historically unusual events. We do remain optimistic of the increased interest in Ventripoint and recognition by investors of the window of opportunity created by the growing clinical need. During the past quarter, I've had the ongoing pleasure of speaking with many of you and greatly value your support as we continue to develop VMS+. During the current quarter, our profile will be higher due to events such as the CityAge AI and cardiology virtual event on April 28, the AEPC meeting or AEPC meeting in late May and the ACHD meeting, which will shortly follow in June. We're excited to be moving ahead with a substantially improved product that will contribute to better health care outcomes for the millions of people suffering heart defects, diseases and disorders. So this concludes the first part of the update. I will now invite Karl to speak. And while he's introducing himself, I will pull up his slides. unmute. So while I'm pulling up the slides, would you care to provide just a couple of comments on yourself and your background?

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everyone. My name is Karl Pringle. I've been -- I was brought in a number of weeks ago by a few and the team to professionalize and establish a best-of-breed and professional sales process and go-to-market strategy, which we have -- which we've done, and I'll talk you through that in coordination with the slides.

So Karl, I've actually turned over control of the conference to you, you can actually share your screen, if you wish.

Why don't you go ahead and you've got the slides, so you can go ahead and then you can operate them.

Okay. Very good. I think you'll need to allow me to do that.

Next slide. Yes. So just to double-click on the opportunity and where we currently are. You all know what Ventripoint does, and it's got a very unique place in the market. And having spoken to the team had the -- the benefit here directly and indirectly from customers, we have massively disruptive technology. There were some user friction points in prior versions which have been addressed in the latest version, thanks to direct feedback from customers and users. And version 4 is now being cleared, as Hugh highlighted, for sales and use in the U.S., Canada, the EU and the U.K., which our focus geographic areas for us. And we've also now got the benefit of significant customer proof points. And my experience as being a commercial executive is that every new customer you get makes the next sale a little shorter and a little easier to get. So we're in a wonderful position. Mayo Clinic arguably one of the best-known health systems on the planet, probably only second to be NHS based on my extensive experience in the marketplace. And all of this, of course, is backed up with significant clinical and scientific publications, and we're working with reference sites now about actually doing some additional ones of these that are current relevant in different ways as well. So we're here at a great opportunity from a sales organization. In 2025, in my mind, is all about that transition from being kind of an R&D minimal viable product background company now transitioning to being a sales machine driven organization. Next slide. So job #1 was really establishing a sales foundation for this year and is to double the number of unit installations the sales pipeline that we have so that we not only are achieving customer acquisition in 2025, but we've also got a sales pipeline of opportunities to ensure that 2026 is going to be successful as well. So in order to do these -- and reach these 2 big goals, we need to shorten the sales cycle. We need to be hyper focused on the high-potential geographies and the clinical markets where there is the low-hanging fruit. We don't want to go charging into new geographies. We don't want to go cutting our teeth into new unproven clinical areas. We need to stay absolutely focused on what we know that we can do and where we've got existing reference points today in the marketplace. We need to expand revenue from our existing customers, and these are both customers where they've already paid a license fee paid for the solution as well as customers where maybe they weren't using or they weren't paying for the service. They were a very early adopter. They were using it for R&D. And now it's a matter of -- and upgrading them to version 4 and getting them on to a payable license agreement. We need to professionalize and uplift and elevate our market awareness as well as our sales approach and having a documented methodology that is going to work and deliver success and we're also going to introduce a professional implementation services revenue stream. So to date, the professional implementation of the VMS units has not been charged for, and we're fundamentally leaving revenue on the table. So this now will become a revenue stream in its own right. It will be a small fraction of what our licenses will be, but it's important that our professionals get paid for the service that they deliver. Next slide, please, Hugh. So this sales foundation is rest on -- Hugh, John Resin is saying he's not seen the slide. Is that -- I can see them. So I'm assuming everyone can see them is -- yes. It's just specific to him, ignore that. So we're really focused on 3 key pillars to the strategy to optimize for sale success. And the first one is absolutely transformational to the business. And I've got a couple of follow-on slides to double-click into it. But fundamentally, we are moving the business, transitioning to a subscription business model. This is going to unlock revenue. It's going to establish valuable recurring revenue. It's going to shorten the sales cycle. It's going to promote wider adoption and also faster adoption within our customer base. The second key pillar is about elevating our market awareness. So it's transitioning sort of the language that's been used before, which is very scientific, deep clinical to, hey, let's talk about the business benefits, the clinical and the clinical value statements of using the solution to both tap into the emotional buying nature of individuals as well as the pure dollar and cents by nature, which, of course, is prevalent in a private health system environment. In order to do that, we also need to uplift the cadence of our market and our social media engagement. So you'll see a lot more activity online. And we need to provide the perception that we're everywhere all at once. And that doesn't mean we have to spend a ton of money. In fact, it can be done very cost effectively with a bit of creativity and a fair amount of blood, sweat and tears. So we'll be doing that a perception that we're everywhere and positioned VMS+ as the market leader. And in my experience, perception becomes reality. We're going to introduce some lead magnet assets and the sales assets that we currently have we're going to refresh those and use those in a more meaningful way to both get new opportunities in at the top of the funnel as well as to help close existing opportunities in a quicker fashion. The third key pillar to optimizing the sales function is, as I said, we're going to be hyper focused core geographies and clinical markets is going to be pulled into areas of the world. But at the moment, we have no business selling into or resources to be able to support it. We're going to underpin our marketing qualified leads to sales-qualified leads and existing sales motions with active current disciplined use of the CRM system. We're going to boost those processes and the efficiency of them through using automation capabilities and we've already started the rigor and the discipline of having the business rhythm within the company of having regular sales meetings team meetings, individual meetings, and that's all about developing a high-functioning sales team and having repeatable processes, methodologies and documents that can be used as we're able to expand our commercial team when the financing comes in. So all that being said, those are the 3 core pillars to enable accelerated customer acquisition. Next slide, please, Hugh. So just to double-click into the subscription business model. This is -- many of you will be familiar with SaaS. This is DaaS, device as a service or device as a subscription, whichever you prefer. And essentially, it is an annual subscription model with an initial 3-year term. So that means that the first 3 years, guaranteed 100% recurrence. That means that we can get a significant amount of revenue, in fact, more revenue than the current model over the course of 3 years. And during that time, the customer would have adopted the solution. And in the words of software, it becomes sticky. In other words, after 3 years, it's pretty difficult for them to switch out for something else. Why would they do that when it's already ingrained in the clinical routines of their cardiologists and sonographers. Support and maintenance will be included in the subscription fee from year 1, which is different from the legacy model where the support and maintenance actually only came in, in year 2. So we're not leaving revenue on the table. And we're going to -- as I said, we're going to introduce the fixed price professional implementation services to engender the adoption process from the beginning in a very professionalized way with repeatable methodologies and professional documentation and support educational assets. And all this means that we're going to have actually a higher customer lifetime value than we've previously been able to have. Next slide, please, Hugh. So when you look at the benefits of transitioning to this model, it's about removing barriers in the sales process. It's about accelerating growth of your existing customers. So it reduces the upfront cost that customers have to make, which means that there are less buying hurdles that they need to go through internally, whether it's finding a big budget, whether it's getting approvals for budgetary spend. So that, in turn, shortens the sales cycle. And it's also a business model that many companies are now familiar with and actually prefer rather than a big upfront capital outlay. This kind of model also promotes scalability as well as accelerating adoption within the customer base, whether it's from 1 user to 5 users or from 1 clinical use case scenario to another use case scenario. And fundamentally, it's a transition to a much higher valuable recurring revenue model. And we'll now also have a fully monetized professional services engagement, which in future years, we can add to and scale as well. So it's all about supporting the customer success and accelerating the adoption curve for our stakeholders as well as investor return. And final slide, Hugh, which is exactly what I said. So that's where we are with the sales and the go-to-market strategy. A lot of work has been undertaken in the past number of weeks and months to get this flushed out, to get it in motion already, and we're starting to see an uptick in the sales pipeline. Back to you, Hugh.

Very good. Thank you, Karl. So we're now at a point where we can address questions. Can everyone hear me. Yes. Good. So the first question from Joe. Hugh, can you please elaborate on GE Healthcare. We are considering partnership with a major company to help commercialize VMS as PPT has been struggling with capital for over a year. Yes, we remain very interested in working with GE Healthcare. We met with them in Q3 last year. They were able to report to us that we were actually the only company able to demonstrate integration with them within their out garden. They had a number of other matters they needed to work with or work through. They were related to their spinout from GE itself through to Danaher. They're still in the process of dealing with the aftermath of that, but we're very interested in reengaging with them. We've also initiated an outreach to one of their major competitors. So this is in play. The relationship with ASCEND, I think, is also related to this. I think part of what we hope to see through this license and closer relationship with ASCEND is better integration into their technology stack and clinical workflow. This will obviously have similar benefits to working with any other partners such as GE, Siemens or Philips.

Hugh, I can answer the question by Matt. So Matt asked the question about -- do we have quantifiable financial value models to help customers in their procurement process. And the answer is, yes, we do, Matt. We're currently working on doing essentially a time and motion study of with and without a VMS system and has done the specific clinical use of it, but actually from sort of the cradle-to-grave of patient and sonographer and cardiologists and having different repeatable views and diagnostics that the cardiologists might need to do. So we're looking at the whole breadth and that will -- or that is enabling us to have a return on investment.

Good. A question from John Shevel. What is the leading time for when a customer orders a device? So we currently have a production capability of approximately 1 unit per week. Notwithstanding certain supply chain challenges. So in terms of the lead time, 2 to 4 weeks, I think we would probably cover it. There's a second question you hear from John. What is being done to mitigate tariff risk on supply chain for the devices bill of materials? So yes, I guess like many, we're trying to understand the effects of the tariffs, if any. Certainly, the software is not an issue. It's in Canada. Some of the hardware is sourced in Canada. So in terms of cost of goods, minimal expense there, the tablet itself is sourced from the U.S. So that, we'll have a minimal, if any, impact on us in terms of bringing it into Canada, of course, moving that across back to the U.S. It is sourced from there in the first place, that shouldn't be an issue. As well, we currently believe that we -- our products are covered under U.S. MCA and we'll continue to do so. So we don't really anticipate large impact from the tariffs. So anyone else? So Drew was asking if you have an opinion on what doesn't work because it pertains to play expect customers? Have you seen something similar to try and buy work in medical software for sales. So Karl, are you be able to address that?

Sorry, I can certainly answer some of that. And Hugh, you probably got a perspective based on existing customers where you play the units. Drew, the one thing I would say is that we've been pretty keen to go through the expense of putting someone on site, putting it in a unit, letting them use for a number of days before any agreement is in place. So one of the sales methodologies that we're changing is that we're actually going to have those customers say, yes, happy to have you use it, but it will be part of your acceptance period that's baked into essentially a license a DaaS agreement. And those acceptance criteria will be agreed in advance. And if those acceptance criteria are checked off during that period of their 3-year -- the first kind of week of the 3-year subscription agreement, they just flow into their normal agreement. And the clock starts ticking on their annual subscription from the day that they sign the agreement, not from the date of acceptance. And that does 2 things. When it flushes out sort of the tire kickers. It also means that we get access to the decision-makers earlier in the sales process, and that enables us to establish whether this is a real or not a real deal and really get to the bottom of the timings. And it all comes down to the acronym that you've probably heard, BANT, budget, authority, need and timing. And those are the things that we need to know to make -- to make deals happen in the times that we want and enable us to forecast accurately. So I think that answers part of the question, Hugh. I don't know if you've got a perspective based on previous placements you've done.

Yes. I think that covers quite a bit of it. I would also say that with version 4, it's a much evolved product. So it really is more -- we have a better product user fit. As we've mentioned, we're evolving from a research or what we call a research customer base who are largely early adopters to routine clinical adoption. So I think moving forward in terms of criteria or in terms of acceptance, basically, we're not going out there to engage in lengthy research projects. There are very clear technical specifications. If we meet those within a very short period of time, then basically the customer accepts the product and we move forward. So we're looking to really tighten things down there. As well, I think it's also a process of expanding our commercial team in areas where we are selling directly, I think we have much more control over the process. Where we're working with distributors, we will be working with them to reduce the friction in the system. So some of the early qualification of sales can be done face-to-face by the distributor rep or sales rep. Initial demonstrations can be done by the salespeople or online by our technical specialists. So really, it's sort of shortened the cycle there. And then as Karl mentioned, we'll be charging for professional services, which then involves bringing someone on site, doing the training, doing some very short evaluations on live patients and then getting the sign-off and acceptance. I see Drew had a second question here asking about the risks -- outstanding risk potentially blocking a long-term financing from happening. So Drew, I think we're at the point now where I think we can realistically say that really a substantial amount of risk has been driven out of the technology and the product. So really, the risk is more falling on to the execution side, and that comes down to team. So we are very aware of that. We have updated our business and commercial plans. We've been doing outreach to really begin recruiting in a top-tier commercial team. And this is partly why we have Karl here today to make this more transparent and visible to shareholders and stakeholders in the company. So the -- yes, really, the focus now is going to be on the team and their ability to execute this plan. So Gil has a question when can we see first sales this year? So we anticipate sales this quarter. As I mentioned, there were several that we had hoped to close with our distributors in late Q4. These have been dragging on a bit, but we're actually sending a team member over to Europe and the U.K. next week to visit a number of these sites and really push to get these closed as well, we do see the opportunity to close another several in North America, hopefully, by the end of this quarter. Question here, are the placements at Ollie Hinkle sales subscription-based or part of the collaborations program. So to be clear, we're collaborating with Ollie Hinkle. So for those of you who are not aware of the foundation, this was created by parents of a young child who unfortunately passed away due to congenital heart defects. I think they found the process of the diagnostic odyssey rather traumatic. And part of their mission is to reduce this trauma or the anxiety that other families in this position would face. So they see VMS as a very interesting modality and product and really, really important to the ongoing support of these patients. So we're actively collaborating with them. They are facilitating introductions to pediatric centers for us. In some cases, they are assisting with financing of the product, not 100%, but co-financing. So these first couple that we mentioned, this is under the old model. So this will be a capital equipment purchase. Moving forward, we anticipate that they would be supportive of the DaaS model. A question from Nitro. Is the CMS code being used by current customers in daily practice. Is this still somewhere around $200 to $300 per scan. So yes, there's existing CPT codes. Some customers are using them. I can't really comment too knowledgeably about the extent. This is also part of our focus this year in transitioning from research to routine clinical use. We want to see these procedure volumes increase. And I think once we have better evidence of that in hand, we'll be able to develop more sophisticated financial models. And perhaps, Karl, you might want to speak to this in terms of how we look ahead to modeling this for customers.

Yes. I think once we get some of the details there, it will just be part of our sales motion of informing our current customers as well as future customers, which codes to use and baking that also into the return on investment models that we're creating.

Yes. So currently, even looking at modest use by these customers, the ROI is fairly fast, like less than a year for the capital equipment model and would be far shorter than that for the DaaS model. Question here. Any update on possible NHS sales. Yes, we have a number of leads that are actually fairly advanced in the sales funnel. As I just mentioned, we're sending someone over to the U.K. to be performing a few sort of final demos if we could describe them that way. And yes, I would anticipate sales of 2 to 3 units there, hopefully, one or more of those coming in this quarter, but definitely in Q3. A question from Jeff. Can I get some color as to your recurring comment on needing working capital to expand sales efforts? We're already today with this conundrum, where will you be tomorrow? Yes. So really, in terms of the growth capital, it really is to support sales people. So this is still a business that is based on relationships and face-to-face engagement. So sales professionals, sales executives are not inexpensive bodies. So we do need to secure capital really to expand the team and our scope and coverage. So that is really the genesis of my comments regarding requiring capital to support this. In terms of where we're at, we're actively reaching out now. We are focused on high net worth individuals and family offices, we're beginning to get some engagement, and this is just a process really of pitching and follow-up and then hopefully closing on some of these investments. So any other questions? None. I would like to thank you all for joining us. I think like many of you, we're acutely aware of the importance of sales -- we're very focused on that. We're pushing as hard and as fast as we can to get those in hand and to really start building this business, I think we are quite excited with the prospects from 2025, we do see the potential here to really build a strong and viable business. Any closing comments, Karl?

No, not really. I mean just to underpin, I said earlier that we put in a fantastic sales strategy that we're now starting to execute from. We've got a number of solid opportunities in the pipeline. And yes, as you said, the capital that's required is not to innovate the product or to prove that the product works, that's already been done. It's now about commercializing it. And customer adoption and customer acquisition. There was one final question that came in from Rod, by the way, which was has there been any outreach to Canadian levels of government for grants and financial support. I'll leave that for you to answer.

Yes. Actually, we've recently reestablished contact with IRAP. So again, just to touch on Karl's comment, ongoing R&D will be somewhat reduced. However, as we look at improving the level of automation and integration, we will see if there is the ability to secure the port for that activity as well. We're in the midst of -- and is R&D applications, so they have the scientific research and engineering development grants are offsets from the government. So we're pursuing capital through that as we speak. I've actually reached out to my local MP who is a minister in the federal government, Jonathan Wilkinson. Asking for support from his office for methods or avenues of support. So he has not responded within the last few weeks, but I will persist on that. And then finally, we are engaged with a couple of health regions in the country looking at support from them. Okay. So thank you, everyone, and we'll see if we can get a recording of this in hand and posted to the website. So thank you very much for your time, and thank you for your support.