Vitrolife AB (publ) (VITR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

July 13, 2020

Nasdaq Stockholm SE Health Care Biotechnology earnings 45 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

Operator

operator
#1

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Vitrolife Interim Report January to June 2020 Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] I must advise you that this conference is being recorded today on Monday, the 13th of July 2020. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Thomas Axelsson. Please go ahead, sir.

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#2

Thank you very much, and welcome to Vitrolife Interim report January to June 2020. The speakers of today will be Mikael Engblom, the CFO of the company; and myself, Thomas Axelsson, that is the CEO. Please change page to #2. Our headline today of the report is an extensive impact of COVID-19. So our ambition today is to try to explain more in details the development during quarter 2 and maybe some projections going forward. But let's see then of quarter 2 first. It was sales of SEK 209 million, and it was equals to minus 45% and that's the same as local currency. So today, when we are talking about SEK, it's the same as local currency in all basis. The EBITDA was SEK 40 million then, corresponding to a margin of 19%. So let's go over then and look into Q2 and change page to #3. It is sales and growth per market region. The ambition today with the sales and growth per market region and later also regarding the product is to try to explain what happened during Q2 and also what are the current status. And what I then will do is that if we're looking into Page #3 then and we are starting in China where the flu started with COVID-19, so we can see that it is a decline in that territory of minus 4% to 6%. What has happened then? Because China was first into this and they are also first out of this situation. As earlier, informed the market, we saw within the first month that it was a decline about 1 -- with 2/3, so the sales was around 1/3. And we are currently up to around 2/3 of normal sales. So in China, we can see that best guess from our side is that the clinic is up running and are doing around 70% of normal procedures, and they have a good intake of new customers. We can see that there is a variation between the regions, the provinces where the south provinces are almost up to 100%. In Wuhan in the Bay Area, it's a little bit more than 50% and Beijing has gone back and forth because they opened up and then were closing down a little bit of some centers, so that may be between 30% to 50%. But it is a trend going up, which means, for us, also more sales. In the rest of that territory that we're calling Asia, we can see a good recovery in Korea, in Taiwan, Hong Kong, while they are still quite behind in India, for instance, then. The recovery in India, Pakistan and those territories are between 30% to 50% of normal intake of customers. The belief, at least right now from talking to the clinics, is that the cycle rate will be normal at the end of the year then. I will then jump into Japan & Pacific, and that region was minus 10%. So that's our best region so far in quarter 2. And why is that? Why have they been able to still keep up the clinics and do their procedures? Mainly due to that it's not been the lockdown in Japan, and the decline in Japan maybe sort of around minus 10%, so it's similar to these numbers. And talking to the clinics, they feel that it is almost recovery at this time. Though in Australia they had a lockdown, so they have been opening up. And what they've been doing is that they have supported the patients with telemedicine. So when they are now opening up the clinics, it is full speed of recovery for the IVF clinics. So far, we have not seen any changes regarding the situation in Victoria where part of Melbourne is also closed. But it is a good pickup of cycles in Japan & Pacific. Going then from Japan & Pacific over to China, Asia into the EMEA region, we can see a dramatic drop with minus 52% and that's due to that -- we all know that COVID-19 has moved west, so it's impacting the territories one by one when we go west. So what's the recovery then? The best recovery is in the northern part of Europe where maybe currently, it's up to 80% to 90% of normal cycle rates. Russia, it's around 50%. What we can see, for instance, in U.K., where it's a big difference between the private clinics and the public clinics because the NIH clinics are not opening up in the same rate as the public -- as the private, I mean, excuse me. The private clinics in U.K. are indicating and are currently having opened 6, 7 days a week by -- so they can pick up and take care of both the customers that were not able to do the transfers or had the treatment in April, May then. Spain, maybe around 75% to 80% pick up right now. Turkey is a little bit below, 65% to 70%. So overall, we can see that it is a recovery. And the recovery in the EMEA region as well as in the U.S., I would like to say, has a couple of considerations. One is that where the IVF clinics do belong to hospitals, there's some fear for the couples to go to the hospital. There has also been, as you know, different regional lockdowns, and that has impacted, of course, the cycle numbers. What we can see in meeting customers and also talking to customers is that the restrictions that they are doing around each patient means that they are working 100%, but they're not able to see as many customers, patients as usual because of the restrictions mainly in the waiting room. So going over to U.S., where they still have had a lot of problems within the clinics. I would like to say that they are -- even if they had the increase of COVID-19, almost 100% of all the clinics are opened. And we can see that they are dealing very professionally with the customers, and the increase of telehealth appointments are helping the customers and the clinics to provide the cycles that are needed. If you go further down in the region of Americas to -- for instance, to Brazil, there's more -- there's a situation that is more troubled. Currently, maybe 30% of the clinics are open, and they're only doing special cases or, for instance, that patients are only being seen certain days of the week. So try to do then a summary of the situation, we go to Page #4 then because the short-term outlook is that we can see from situation more or less where the IVF clinics were locked down in April. We can see it's picking up and as mentioned before, around 2/3 at the end of June. We also see huge differences, large differences in the recovery. Between, for instance, Japan and U.S., there's a huge difference. We can also see a difference between the Northern part of Europe and Southern part. The recovery, to some extent, are also being delayed due to the restrictions. We are also saying that we believe that it's going to be a recovery, but the recovery will take place during quarter 3 and quarter 4 this year. What the clinics are talking about is also the situation that there are customers, there are patients that are in need of IVF treatments. So there are a potential pent-up need for more treatments when this crisis is slowly, hopefully, going away. By that, going to Page #5. And Page #5 is about the growth per division. And the growth per division is also following the trend what currently is happening on the market. The first thing that the customers are doing is that they need to replace and start to have fresh inventory of consumables and then especially the Media of our nutrition solutions. Our nutrition solutions have limited lifetime and shelf life, and that means that we can see when clinics are starting up, they are starting to order Media, so they can do the -- also pickup and also the culturing. Interesting also is the quick and extra demand that we've seen in June on vitrification products and that is due to that the vitrified frozen down a lot of -- all sites that they could not transfer during the period. So consumables are the first one to pick up in sales. And the situation there is for us to have a balance between our inventory and difficulty to predict exact demand on each product. The other large division that we have is the technology, and that's mainly the Time-lapse products, and that's a decline there with minus 50% then. Customers, as we see, they are first trying to get back and get an efficient clinic, and then they will later on continue to further invest into capital goods as time let. So what we first believe is what we can see on this side, consumables declined minus 40%; technology, minus 50%; and Genomics is minus 60%. And while minus 60% on Genomics, even if it is small numbers, is due to the situation that we are only selling Genomics in Americas and in EMEA. And the biggest market there is Americas. And since Americas are down and has not yet started up, even if they're reaching about 100% openness of the clinic, it's going to be a little bit delay on that side. So from sales and growth in different territories and the divisions, I'm handing over to Mikael. Please, Page #6.

Mikael Engblom

executive
#3

Thank you. So I'll take you through the key financials during the second quarter. So the gross margin during the second quarter was 53% compared to 64% in the same quarter last year, and the drop in margins was due to high scrapping costs of SEK 7 million related to Media primarily, and that's due to the variations in sales and the shelf life that Thomas mentioned earlier. The other major factor behind the drop in margin is negative economies of scale. As sales declined with 45% during the quarter, we had the fixed cost to be shared with fewer products and thereby, reducing the average margin. The EBITDA margin was 19% compared to 38% last year, so the variation is due to the decline in gross margin that I just mentioned and then the other major reason is a negative effect of economies of scale in the operating expenses. So even though operating expenses in absolute terms declined, in percentage of sales they increased due to the drop in sales. Net debt in relation to EBITDA was minus 1.6, and we had positive cash flow adding on to the cash in the end of the quarter. And of course, the decline in EBITDA makes this metric to increase. With that, move to Page #7 for the long-term outlook. So the long-term outlook, after the corona crisis, we believe, is unchanged. And we believe the market will grow with 5% to 10% in the foreseeable future. As before, we believe this will be driven by the demographics that people wait long time with having children, the growth in income and then increased social acceptance for IVF. When it comes to Vitrolife, we will continue to focus on sales expansion and expanding the product offering, and that will be done both through in-house development and through acquisitions. With that, operator, we are ready to take questions.

Operator

operator
#4

[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from the line of Ulrik Trattner.

Ulrik Trattner

analyst
#5

Thomas, Mikael, and first off, I have a few questions. But if we can just start off with, obviously, the demand is down due to COVID-19 for all specific regions and it seems like you're talking about a little bit softer recovery in each respective markets with this year being heavily affected. But if we were to look into 2021, do you see any limitation in capacity through these IVF clinics that could limit your growth even if there is a significant pent-up demand next year?

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#6

It was a good question. You know that what -- it's difficult to say what's going to happen. But if you're asking about the demand inside the clinics and if they have the capacity in the same situation, if we have the capacity, if we are then looking on consumable products, yes, I don't think that will be any major challenge for us on our biggest product assortment, the nutrition solutions, the Media. The challenge there would be for us, as Mikael also said, to be able to cope with the variances on the demand. And we can see the situation right now where it was -- where it is picking up quickly, that we have to react and do some extra lots in the same situation when it was going down in March, April, it took some time to coordinate the production. If we are then going into the clinics, it is an interesting situation right now that many of the clinics are having demand. And there are couples, patients that are a little bit frustrated, let me put it that way, that they had frozen embryos that they want to transfer. So therefore, there's an extra demand right now in some regions to do the transfer, of course, because they've been frozen. And we can also see that clinics in many territories in the EMEA region that are private -- not public, private, are opening up and having the clinics open 6, 7 days a week, so they can deal with the demand then. So if your question is if we see that there is any restrictions within the clinics if it gets back to a normal situation? No, not really, not really. If there is any problem for Vitrolife, it could be if it is exploding the demand, but I think we are following this quite closely, so we will be able to manage it.

Ulrik Trattner

analyst
#7

Okay. That's great. Perfect. And as you mentioned, you're selling to private clinics. And you, obviously, made some provisions on bad debt during the quarter. Do you see any sort of major change closing down IVF clinics? And obviously, especially for the private ones, one would assume that they were to wait buying into your technology equipment until sort of the turnaround has already -- the patients have already come back. Is that something that you're seeing right now or expecting to see some sort of pent-up demand being -- initially, the consumables, but -- especially for the private clinics?

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#8

For the private clinics, yes, there are some clinics that has a cash flow problem. I don't think it's going to be any major problem if what's going on will continue. If there's going to be a new lockdown, then I don't know. But the route that we are on right now, I don't see any major challenges. The concern that private clinics has is how quickly to invest, how quickly will the demand come back. And they will, of course, as every other private industry owner are doing, manage their cash and being on the safe side before they go into any investments. So the technology will be behind the consumable growth initially, yes.

Ulrik Trattner

analyst
#9

Okay. Good. And just one last question before I get back into the queue. You have a very strong balance sheet. And obviously, there is M&A opportunities out there. Do you see any limitation from COVID-19 of you finding suitable targets to acquire or have these become more approachable based on this pandemic?

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#10

I would like to say there are 2 sides on this coin. One is that companies that has considered -- and especially family companies are in a situation that should they continue with all the regulatory changes going forward, et cetera, et cetera. So I do feel and I can say that there are a flow on some potential opportunities with companies that are considering if they would continue themselves. Another thing that is a challenge and that is to do the due diligence process. So I do think it's going to be similar to what's going on within the clinics. There is going to be a lot to do when we are finally being able to travel.

Operator

operator
#11

[Operator Instructions] Your next question comes from the line of Patrik Ling.

Patrik Ling

analyst
#12

I think it was when you talked about China or Asia that you said that you expected or that the clinics expected the cycle rate back to normal by the end of the year. Was that the correct interpretation that it was only for China and Asia or was it for everything?

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#13

I could say, almost for all countries, where it's going to be quickest back to normal are Japan, Australia as we do believe. China is picking up, but they are quite careful also, as you know, within the Beijing area, for instance. And if we see on the Beijing clinics and they have a couple of big ones there, around 60% of all patients going to the Beijing clinics are from outside the city center, which means that when they're locking down, they're also doing some restrictions. But you are asking for a long term -- let's say, long term, but 2 quarters, we -- the only thing we can foresee and what we believe in is that the pickup will take place during Q3 and Q4. And we can see how quickly it's getting back in some territories like in the Nordic and Germany, et cetera.

Patrik Ling

analyst
#14

Okay. But you do not expect to have positive growth numbers until we come into Q1? Is that the right way to see it?

Mikael Engblom

executive
#15

Yes. I mean we are guiding that we believe that the third and the fourth quarter will have a negative impact of COVID-19. So that is the guidance that we have done. And we cannot make assessments that is a longer period than that at the moment given the uncertainty, but we believe a gradual increase in sales. And therefore, we will have a gradual growth from the level that we had in the second quarter.

Patrik Ling

analyst
#16

Okay. Can I also ask you about the gross margin? I mean you said that you had SEK 7 million in scrapping costs. And if we adjust for that, you would have had a gross margin of 56.5, I think. Is the rest of the decline, is that completely due to negative economies of scales or are there any other items in the gross margin that we should be aware of?

Mikael Engblom

executive
#17

No. That is the big factor in the gross margin variation. If you look on the scrapping cost, we had SEK 7 million in scrapping cost. Even in a normal situation, we have some scrapping costs. So in a normal situation, we probably have between SEK 1 million and SEK 2 million in scrapping costs in a quarter. So the scrapping cost, that's out of the ordinary is probably in the range of SEK 5 million to SEK 6 million.

Patrik Ling

analyst
#18

Okay. And what level of sales would you say that you need to reach to be able to start to see positive economies of scale? Because when I look at your numbers and go back maybe 4 years or something like that, I mean, you had sales at the same level as you saw this quarter, but significantly higher gross margin, even if you adjust for the Genomics operation and the dilution that you get there.

Mikael Engblom

executive
#19

Yes. But we have also, of course, invested in our operations in those years and we added products and changed the product mix. So there has been a lot of variations. But of course, as we increase our sales, we will get closer and closer to the previous gross margin. And then it's just a matter of how big decline compared to the previous situation that would be the factor.

Patrik Ling

analyst
#20

Okay. You also took SEK 6 million in bad debt reserves this quarter. Is that what you think will be needed? I mean because when I listen to you, it sounds very much like we have a recovery situation in almost all markets. So have you -- in that number, have you made an assessment for the second half as well or is that only for the second quarter?

Mikael Engblom

executive
#21

No. But that is the added provisions that we added during the second quarter, and that is based on an individual assessment clinic by clinic. And of course, that's on a base of close to SEK 200 million of total accounts receivables. So if you look in that context, it's not a huge provision, but it's our best estimate in terms of potential bad debt.

Patrik Ling

analyst
#22

Okay. And do you have had any clients that have gone out of business due to the pandemic?

Mikael Engblom

executive
#23

Yes. We had 1 client in the U.S.

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#24

They didn't go out of business really, but it was a bankruptcy of a clinic chain, and then the clinic has popped up in a new identity.

Operator

operator
#25

Your next question comes from the line of Björn Olander.

Björn Olander

analyst
#26

Björn Olander, Murgata Equity Research. Of course, the recovery is the most important thing here. And I think you have been as clear as you can be. So I will continue along Patrik's questions on the expenses and so on. You participated in the support program that generated SEK 5 million in the quarter. Where has that been booked in the P&L?

Mikael Engblom

executive
#27

It's booked under other operating revenues.

Björn Olander

analyst
#28

Okay. So it's almost the entire other operating revenues then. How is that -- right now, what is the situation with those programs and participations? And also more importantly, your own organization, are you doing any sort of long-term changes there or long term -- some changes that, I mean, not only related to these programs that you speak?

Mikael Engblom

executive
#29

I can answer first on the first question. And -- so we use these programs during the second quarter. And then as we saw demand increasing in the end of the quarter, we closed this state support programs and then staff returning then to normal working hours. When it comes to the long-term effects, Thomas, do you want to say anything about that?

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#30

Yes. We are not doing any changes because we believe that it's going to come back. And also that the things that we are working with on, for instance, the development, all the activities that we are doing, we have been able to do those from -- to a large extent, through the digitalized world that we're working in. And all this with new software programs, the development within the Genomics, for instance, is something that -- no, that's about the future. So we still believe in the future. And also the regulatory thing. There are opportunities with this, too. We have been able to focus and -- for instance, on the regulatory side, when you are not having as much people inside the office, it's an interesting thing that with the digitalization and this kind of work, you can also be more affected. So there isn't always bad things with this life.

Patrik Ling

analyst
#31

Yes. That sounds very good. I noticed that there are exactly 418 employees at the end of this quarter, and it was expected the same number after Q1. So that's very encouraging for the organization, I think. Are they -- speaking about this -- sort of this new world and with digitalization and so on, do you expect any sort of change in that -- in the way you work? Or -- I mean as they work remote from this year and so on, will there be any changes in your sort of sales process or -- I've also heard some companies in other medtech industries that have been -- sort of this period has been a period of sort of education and the clinics are thinking more about how they will change their way of working and so on, so they could be sort of more open to new ways of thinking in terms of that. So any thoughts on that?

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#32

Yes, the speed that digitalization, especially the sales and marketing and the education and training side that you are mentioning are incredible. This -- when our customers has not been able to run the clinics as they usually do, they have been on different kind of sessions. So the situation that you are able to have 300, 400 people on a training session, that was impossible before. We could have 30 to 40 on that side. And also a situation you mentioned, the big exhibition congress, ESHRE, that was last week, the situation that can be and you can be at 6, 7 sessions at the same time instead of just going into 1 conference room and listen to 1 session, this will, for sure, change the market. And my projection then is that within some time, we are going to have more digitalized support for our own sales rep and also for our customers and maybe changing also the profile on the ones that are meeting our end users.

Björn Olander

analyst
#33

And finally, I know Ulrik touched upon this, and I was interrupted by the operator. So apologies if you've already answered that question. But this -- I mean these financial constraints and so on among both the clinics and also your competitors, especially the smaller ones, do you expect some kind of change in dynamics there? I mean are small clinics being bought by larger clinics. Obviously, some have financial challenges and go bankrupt perhaps. And also the smaller competitors are, I suppose, struggling more than you in this environment with your strong balance sheet and so on. So any thoughts on that would be very interesting.

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#34

Okay. I can -- regarding the industry itself, we are a couple of larger players -- I mean, larger in this field. And all of us has good financial situation. So there is -- I don't think there's going to be any major change between -- there will be opportunities, however, in companies that might will consider how they will be owned and managed going forward. Regarding the clinics then, the only thing that I have seen is that some of the ones that were going around very interested in buying clinics are maybe a little bit more careful right now. So the larger PE situation, they are maybe slowing down a little bit regarding the acquisitions, but that's just my guess.

Björn Olander

analyst
#35

Yes. That sounds fair. I mean by sales that doesn't exist or it's just sort of questionable. It's probably a challenge right now.

Operator

operator
#36

[Operator Instructions] Your next question comes from the line of [ Charlie Noth ].

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#37

Mikael and Thomas, I just got a few questions. So the first question is on the recovery of Asia. So I'm just looking at the Q1 growth rate for Asia, which is minus 22% from Q1. And then this year -- sorry, this quarter, it is minus 46%. So obviously, that the recovery has maybe -- per my understanding, the recovery has worsened in Q2. Now just thinking back, obviously, this -- in this quarter, China has started to recover in March. So -- yes, so this is my first question, could you give us a bit more color on the recovery rates, especially on the minus 22% and the minus 46% in Q2, please?

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#38

Can you take this.

Mikael Engblom

executive
#39

Yes. I can start to comment. Yes. So it's correct. I mean China was first to enter into the lockdown situation, so we had a negative impact in the first quarter from China. However, it wasn't the full first quarter that was impacted in China, but rather the last 2 months of the first quarter. Then when it comes to markets outside China, there was not a big impact in other markets such as India, for example, in the first quarter. When it comes to the second quarter, we also had a very strong second quarter in Asia last year. We had big sales of Time-lapse to a single clinic in the end of second quarter going to China, which had difficult comparison numbers in the second quarter of this year. So those factors had an importance to these percentages.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#40

Okay. That's clear. I was thinking maybe did something happen last year. Right. Just on the U.S. also, the recovery, I think Thomas has mentioned that U.S. is opening up -- 100% opening up. Just wanted to know about the volume recovery, how much of the volume has come back in the U.S.?

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#41

The volume recovery are slower. I mean they're opening up, but they have a lot of restrictions regarding how to see the customers. And what first happening there is that they are taking in the patients that has not been able to have the transfer done. So I do not really -- I'm not really sure because it's a little bit more difficult to actually get a clear understanding about what kind of rate that they are doing full cycles. What we can see is they have started the hormone cycles, which is good because that's the first step on it, and that -- and then that they're doing more transfers. So there is this kind of in-between, so that means that -- I do think that they will pick up. The concern regarding Americas is more about South America and what's going on there where, as I said -- I think I said at the least that it is around 30% of the clinics are open in Brazil, Chile, Argentina are just -- they're hardly doing anything at all. But the most interesting thing is about U.S., and they have also changed. I have spoken to some of the clinics where they are putting more and more emphasis on the telehealth appointments. And this is one of the changes that I do think we will see going forward that is going to be more of this kind of prediscussion with couples before they're coming into the clinic and actually starting the procedure.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#42

Okay. And third question is on the -- for example, on telehealth and on what you have mentioned in terms of virtual training. I'm just thinking about, does this actually make Vitrolife a stronger player across the world because, obviously, previously, we know it would be constrained by geography. But now do you think Vitrolife will be in a better position compared to competitors through digitally or virtually reach out to customers all across the world?

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#43

As we can see, we are -- like I said, we are -- 2 companies that has reacted. And I do think I can -- my best guess is that, and it's a qualified guess, is that we can see that Cooper Companies and Vitrolife, the largest and the second one in this field, has been quick in arranging seminars and trainings, which, of course, not the smaller companies has been able to do. So I do think that's going to be a long-term advantage of size.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#44

Sure. And just one more. On the capital side, maybe could you shed some light on. So the decline in technology is minus 50%, consumer is minus 40%. In fact, relatively, the decline in technology is not that bad. Could you give us a bit more as to why? Is it because there are back orders, so you're still delivering in this quarter? Does that mean that in the future quarters, the technology will take a more hit as the consumables come back?

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#45

Now the situation when you sell technology is that when we are selling it, we need to get into the clinics. We need to install it and do those things. And the restrictions for us to get into clinics and to travel, as you're well aware, has been quite limited. So there -- it is -- what I expect is that clinics that we had in our pipeline for buying within quarter 2, they have come back and they are delaying that. We don't know for what time. But I don't think it is out of the picture that they will come back and ask for those products.

Mikael Engblom

executive
#46

And I can also maybe add a comment that a portion of the revenue in our technology division comes from recurring revenue in the terms of service agreements and the slides, the consumables that you use for in connection with the equipment. So there is a portion of revenue there that is not linked to new sale of equipment.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#47

Okay. So just last question on China. I think you have mentioned this before. Could you just give us the overall China recovery rate so far or at the end of June or currently you see?

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#48

Once again, I was missing a little bit of your question, excuse me.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#49

Sorry. I just wanted to -- you may have mentioned this before. I was double-checking on the China recovery volume. You have mentioned they vary across the region. I just wanted to get an overall feel for how much volume has come back.

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#50

Yes. What I said, I will repeat, is that in the south provinces of China, we can see that the recovery is almost full. So it's almost 100% of the normal cycles. And then just mentioned since everyone knows about Wuhan then today, there it is a little bit more than 50%. And in Beijing, it was opening up and then it was closing down a little bit. So Beijing is maybe between 30% to 50% then. Totally, where are the recovery right now, around 70%.

Operator

operator
#51

And we have another question from the line of Björn Olander.

Björn Olander

analyst
#52

Yes. I just have a minor question more out of curiosity. You booked SEK 9 million for Illumina this quarter due to revaluation and so on. What is the reason for the revaluation right now that's more common to see in Q4 that will be interesting there?

Mikael Engblom

executive
#53

Yes. I can answer that. There was a new issue of shares in Illumina that was done at a different...

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#54

Illumina.

Mikael Engblom

executive
#55

Illumina, sorry. So that was the reason for us to reevaluating our shares.

Björn Olander

analyst
#56

Okay. So that's -- you sort of got a price, so you could have to adjust it. Did you participate in that issue?

Mikael Engblom

executive
#57

No. We did not.

Björn Olander

analyst
#58

Okay. Could you comment your long-term ambitions with that investment?

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#59

In Illumina, we went into that as we are doing in some small businesses to get more insight into different fields that are quite close to Vitrolife. And back then, we were having business development thoughts within the embryonic stem cells. So it's been a good area of interest for, let's say, know-how development inside Vitrolife.

Operator

operator
#60

There are no further questions. Please continue.

Thomas Axelsson

executive
#61

Okay. If there isn't any further questions, thank you very much for listening in, and goodbye for today.

Operator

operator
#62

That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may all disconnect.

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Programmatic access to Vitrolife AB (publ) earnings transcripts and 251,000+ others is available through the EarningsCalls.dev REST API. Plans from $24.99/month — full transcripts, speaker segments, full-text search, and the recently-added /api/v1/transcripts/recent polling endpoint for ETL pipelines.