VNV Global AB (publ) (VNV) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hi, all. Thank you for joining VNV Global's First Quarter 2024 Report Conference Call. On the call today, we have Per Brilioth, CEO; Dennis Mohammad, who's part of our investment team; and myself, Bjorn Von Sivers, CFO at the company. As per usual, Per will start with a summary of the quarter and some highlights from its management letter. And after this, we will open up for Q&A. [Operator Instructions] With that short introduction, I'll hand it over to you, Per.

Thank you, Bjorn, and thanks, everyone, for joining. So Bjorn -- no, who is it, Dennis? You're doing the, yes, slides here. Yes. So as you've seen the report, it's a slight uptick. We've left the sort of 6.66 number to a 6.67 number. It's a slight, slight uptick. We're rounding upwards, but it's not -- especially in Swedish krona, SEK 54 and a bit, which is up from the end of December, which we're very happy about. But I'll just try to summarize the big things that are going on. And I think that we can do that at the next slide. And the big -- so the big thing during this quarter, the big thing for us in general right now is to sell assets so that we can pay down the debt that we have. And as we've spoken about for a long time and you know -- all of you know that we've had cash for some time now to pay down the June bond, and we've been repurchasing that June bond in the market. And during this quarter, we did sell a portfolio of assets centered around Booksy to Verdane for $52 million, and then, there's some earn-out that it can take it up to $58 million. And this is -- most of this is closed now. Very, very, very small piece is not closed because there's a longer closing period. But that's small. So most of it has closed. And that has allowed us to also start to retire -- in essence, retire the debt that's falling due in January 2025. And we did like a structured organized buyback of that. So we bought back SEK 300 million and a bit of those bonds in the market. And the rationale behind that is that simply the price we pay in the market is -- gets us a yield to maturity that's higher than what we get at the bank, so it just makes sense. And we're basically still in the process of selling further assets to completely pay down the debt that matures, well, during the coming sort of 6 months -- 6 to 9 months, I guess, including the Jan '25 one. And so the current net debt position is $64 million, which is down from $110 million at the end of the year. So that's very much in focus. We -- I think we can -- you can go back a slide, Dennis. Yes, that one. Sorry, yes, so the transaction with the sale to Verdane had a -- we sold for money now at $52 million, something that we had booked at just under $60 million as this shows, so that's a 12% discount. If we get the earn-out, and we're bullish about that, it's a very -- it's basically no discount. And obviously, a much, much, much smaller discount than whatever we trade at. At the time that we announced it, we traded at just under 20%, it's gone up a little bit since then, although we're still at a big discount. So, thanks, yes, I just want to touch upon that. Now we can go back to the next slide, Dennis, thank you. Other things then in the -- during the quarter is that Voi, which is a big holding of ours, the third largest now because we've taken it down somewhat to reflect the value of the company in capital rates that they just completed. So they raised $25 million, we put in $5 million. This takes the company to cash flow positive, which is a very strong position to be in these days. And revenues over the past 2 years has grown 50%. They reduced costs a lot. They have halved costs, and this has all sort of expedited them to become profitable. So they were, in essence, EBITDA positive last year. They will -- in essence, will be EBIT positive this year, so very much in the right direction. So we can talk more about this if anyone has any questions, but that's a big -- that was a big thing for us during the quarter to complete that. We're very happy with Voi. And I think, as most of you who are based here in Europe, I mean, Voi is present in 100 or so cities in Europe. And the European market is really sort of narrowing down to 2 key players, which is Voi and Lime. Certainly, if you -- those of you who are based here in Scandinavia see that those 2 operators are the ones that are still standing, offer a great product. And sort of if there were people who've looked at this industry from a distance, and seen that, "Ooh, boy, there's a lot of competition here, how can this ever make money", sort of cease now that this is -- it's fewer players, stronger players, on the license, and I think people are starting to. And there were more to come. As these companies look back at profitability and has some history of profitability, it will be clear that this is really key piece and not only a key piece in European cities' transportation networks, but also an important piece of logistical transportation that's also potentially very profitable. So other things is, yes, Gett, as we mentioned here, because it's in a messy part of the world. And despite sort of the horrible violence that's going on in that region around the sort of economic centers of Israel, business is fairly if you can call it -- but at least in economic terms, fairly back to normal. And they rebounded to 95% of what we saw before October 7, which is, of course, from an economic standpoint, very good. And they've also served -- Gett has become the player at the Ben Gurion Airport. That's the -- if you want to take a taxi from there, you use Gett. It's sort of big thing there. I don't -- it's not -- probably not many of you have traveled there since October 7, but it's working very, very well. So as hopefully, things start to come down there, that airport will be more and more busy and then that will be a big contributor to get going forward. So very happy about that. The other thing was BlaBlaCar, and I think all of you saw, we certainly sort of helped spread it. They did a press release where they announced EUR 100 million financing, which is something that they don't usually do. We are very happy that the company is starting to sort of share more news and information like the ones they did because it helps us give you guys an insight into the company that's unusual for private companies, and it's probably more usual for companies that are on route to becoming public. Now, as all of you know, BlaBlaCar has been -- has talked about going down the public route at some point in time. And from a distance, I think we can all say that this -- them starting to do this kind of thing is a good precursor to something like that happening. The credit facilities to support them doing M&A, and we're very excited about M&A opportunities in this space. They also took the opportunity to sort of talk about their financials, announcing a EUR 253 million in revenue, which is up some 30% year-on-year. And perhaps more importantly, that they are EBITDA positive. And in contrast to Voi, EBITDA is the level that matters here. There's nothing that happens below EBITDA in terms of assets to be depreciated, et cetera. So that's very strong. This company is doing super well. So that's like an overview of what we think of -- there's lots of stuff that's gone on at VNV over the quarter, but those would be the highlights. I think it's fair to say. And now Bjorn is going to take us through some more details in terms of the numbers. So over to you, Bjorn.

Thank you, Per. Yes, here, we have a snapshot of the balance sheet per quarter ending. And we have an investment portfolio of some SEK 60 per share, additional cash and cash equivalents of SEK 3.7 per share, that gets us to a total investment portfolio, including cash of almost SEK 64 per share. On that, we have borrowings of negative SEK 9 per share that gets us to the SEK 54 NAV roughly. Today, that represents a discount or the share price today represents roughly a discount of some 55% to that. And as Per said, the NAV in SEK over the quarter was up roughly 6% and flat in dollar terms. If we move to the next slide, Dennis, I'll just note some highlights on the 3 largest assets and the movements of our cash and net debt during the quarter. BlaBlaCar, our largest holding, was up roughly 9% during the quarter, primarily driven by slightly increased adjusted peer multiple and also slightly increased fully diluted ownership following the cancellation of certain employee incentive pools that no longer exists. The BlaBlaCar position represents roughly SEK 25 per share, so around 45% of NAV as per March 31, so our largest holding by far. Again, Gett is down roughly 3% during the quarter, also driven primarily by a slightly lower peer multiple although the situation in the regions remain volatile. We know that, Per mentioned, Gett have recovered now to 95% of pre-war levels. And by quarter ending, Gett represents roughly SEK 7.6 per share as of March 31. Both BlaBla and Gett are valued on our typical or regular model. Voi, on the other hand, was smooth the most during the quarter, is down roughly 21% during the quarter. And that's essentially driven by the fact that we moved the valuation from previous model to now transaction. We invested $5 million as part of a $25 million new equity round and also converted our previously held convertible, which was amounted to approximately $90 million, which gets us to the $24 million here in the table. Voi represents SEK 6.5 per share as of March 31. In aggregate, these 3 largest holdings represent roughly SEK 39 per share and just about 70% of our NAV. During the quarter, we also closed, as Per mentioned, the Verdane portfolio transaction quarterly. We sold Booksy, JamesEdition and Carla. Cash and cash equivalents at the end of the quarter was $46 million, plus an additional $2 million in liquidity management investments. The driver of the movement in cash or non-movement in cash, if you will, was that total proceeds from sales that were primarily driven by this Verdane transaction. They partially closed there. Had proceeds of sale of $50 million. And at the same time, we also repurchased bonds during the quarter to the order of SEK 350 million, which gives us this ending cash balance of $46 million. And given these movements, net debt, if you move to the next slide, Dennis, was down from roughly $110 million last quarter to $64 million now. Correspondingly borrowing was down from $152 million to $110 million, driven by these repurchases and also some FX effects. With that, I'll hand it back to Per, who will flip through some more slides before we go to Q&A.

Yes. You'll be familiar where the structure of our portfolio of BlaBlaCar had become a little bit bigger, Voi has gone down to the third space. But I think Bjorn has touched upon all this. To briefly touch upon the other holdings, HousingAnywhere, which is like an Airbnb, but for long -- mid- to long-term rentals, it's a fascinating holding that we're increasingly active in. And so that fits what we do very well. Numan is this digital health platform for males, for men, centered in the U.K., is doing very well as well. Breadfast e-commerce in Egypt; Bokadirekt, all of you Swedes will know, very excited about that. We've sold Bokadirekt now, but through Booksy we -- Booksy in Poland, that is, we know how excellent it looks like. And Bokadirekt is really on route to become -- to assume those kind of levels and also has a lot of Hemnet-like characteristics to it. So very excited about that. Wasoko, this B2B marketplace in Africa, that's part of the consolidation effort now that, that is near term. And HungryPanda is like a foodora, but for Chinese communities outside of China, All those companies are doing well, and we're very excited. We will find another time to go through the remainder, which is quite a few names, but that are too small to talk about now. But importantly, if you go to the next slide, what we also typically want to share with you is that how over this past year really a lot of work has been done at the shareholder level, but then sort of inspiring or getting management to go about getting the companies to become profitable. So we -- over this past year, the part of the portfolio that's become EBITDA positive has grown like this. The reason why we sort of gray in Voi here is because whilst they are EBITDA positive, they still own and depreciate the scooters. So we should really talk about EBIT positive, which they have. Well, they did achieve during a quarter, during 2003, I think, it was the third quarter, something like that, that they were EBIT positive, which is fantastic. But then over the whole year, they're yet to become EBIT positive, which is something that we hope they will be able to achieve this year. But the overall trend here is a portfolio -- that our portfolio is profitable and then also controls -- in that way controls its own destiny. And then finally, 2 dates for you, which is that we hope to see you on the 15th of May, which is when we have our AGM. And that's at 10:00. For those of you who are based here in Sweden, hope to see you in the room. And for those of you who are not based in Sweden, also hope to see you in the room, but, otherwise, I think you are going to follow that by other means. But maybe more importantly, we have our capital market -- we have a Capital Markets Day again this year, which is this time in Stockholm, Sweden. And sort of we're not the center of the world, so I hope if you can't join physically, then this will be streamed in a live fashion so you could follow them, these presentations by Zoom or on YouTube, I think it is, as we do them during that day. And they will be available afterwards as well. So 2 dates for you. And yes, I think that concludes what we sort of prepared for you, but we're very happy to sort of take any questions. And Bjorn has, I think, walked you through how that works. And I think we have some questions, right, that have come up.

Yes, exactly. [Operator Instructions] We can start with some written questions that we received. You write in your management report that you work on additional exits. Can you provide any additional color on if you expect those to happen during the remainder of the year and to further strengthen your financial position?

Yes. Yes. The expectation is for sure. And immediately that I say for sure is that I'm confident that we will be able to conclude exits of a size that's enough and maybe more to pay off the debt and also get into a net cash position. And -- but of course, one has to throw in the caveat that nothing is done until it's done, but we've been hard at work doing exactly this for quite some time now, so the -- yes, that's the expectation for sure. And, yes, I think there's also a question that has been written here that talks about if there are new rounds in our companies. And I think of the major ones, it was only Voi, which is complete, and we don't expect a new round at Voi, really ever. There has been some activity in some other companies too, where we have -- which has been done at levels which are fine, and we've been happy to be diluted at. And yes, so there's some stuff going on. But in terms of impacting our overall situation in terms of liquidity, et cetera, we don't expect anything major to happen anytime soon.

We also have, I think, a live question from Bharat that I'll try to allow him to speak here. So please go ahead, Bharat. You are now live.

Can you hear me well?

We can hear you a little bit low. But it's fine.

I hope now it's a bit better. Just on Voi, can you speak about the future revenue trajectory of the company? I appreciate that the increased regulatory scrutiny, consolidation in the market has certainly helped like some winners to come out, example Voi. But just on the future trajectory, we would like to know a little bit more. And on the -- just so that I get a better handle for the demand for e-scooters and e-bikes in the medium term, which is one of the questions we keep getting from investors. And also, when you say EBIT positive in 2024, you also expect free cash flow to be positive as well?

Why don't I -- let me answer a little bit high level, and then, we have Dennis with us here who really is an expert. Dennis was, I think, the first or second employee at Voi, that's how we got to know him, and really helps out at Voi in every sense. But yes, I think we -- while it's difficult to guide for sort of the near future, the next couple of years in sort of any details, then people will be upset with us. But I think we see this business not getting to a 60%, 70% EBIT, net margin kind of business that you find in classifieds and maybe BlaBlaCar and like the Bokadirekt kind of situations who really sort of get to that. I mean this industry is subject to some competition. It's not a winner takes everything. So -- but we do see this in the mature states being a 20% to 30% EBIT kind of margin business. And so that will be the sort of the slightly longer-term sort of kind of margin that we see at the company. And yes, the other thing is that there is demand here, and there is an increasing demand overall. And I mean, there is a lot of -- this industry is only 5 years old, right, or 5 and a bit maybe, but very young. And there has been the, hey, this is a new thing. Those users have found it and used it, but now it's the people who are starting to use it as a way to get to work on a sort of average basis in all these European cities. This is growing, but it's not like -- it's not the dramatic sort of swings in growth that you saw when this was a really new thing. But now it's growing, and it's -- there's a lot of room to grow, but it doesn't give you -- it's maybe not 50% per year if you see what I mean. And -- but what I would say also -- and then on the cash flow side of things is that the other -- that this company getting to EBIT positive is strong and that, of course, means cash flow positive. But what this industry is also facing now that there is -- when it's becoming profitable and when it's also a clearer picture on who the players are and the competitive pressures, I think you'll see this industry, like any transportation network, also being funded by debt. And that's really sort of coming together. So long, maybe too long, and I would also say, Bharat, thank you for the question, and you are the first ever who we've been able to sort of take into the room and ask a question like that. So congratulations for that. But Dennis, is there anything we should add to Bharat's questions in terms of details?

I think you touched upon most of the important stuff, but what I can add is, first on the demand side, it is clear that same-store sales is going up quite significantly across cities for Voi and for our competitors. We saw, for instance, in the case of Voi, as we press released, they grew revenues 50% over the past 2 years. Lime, which is their largest competitor really globally, they shared that they grew last year at 32% on top line. So the industry, for sure, is growing. I think that's just one data point to put out there. The second one in terms of profitability is looking at 2023 for Voi, which is really the year of transitioning from a hyper growth, if you will, to profitability. They improved EBITDA margins by 25 percentage points. They improved EBIT margin by 35 percentage points with doubled gross profit. So the improvements are probably more clear on looking further down the P&L. And then lastly, and as Per's point there, Voi did share in their press release that they not only raised the $25 million of debt, but also there was an additional funding through asset-backed debt to fund vehicles coming into 2024. So that should also obviously have fuel growth into 2024. As we said publicly before, coming into 2023, the company didn't invest in new CapEx, so the growth that they have achieved in '23 was with a smaller fleet, really showing that demand for the service is growing. But it's -- coming into '24, they have actually invested into CapEx. So that should also help fuel growth for the coming year and a bit. I think that's it.

Thank you.

May I just ask one more, if that's all right?

Okay.

On the discount that you mentioned in your report that you apply for valuation of Gett, that's the discount you apply to the peer multiples. Is there any commentary you can provide around that? And maybe the second part of the question is generally around the state of the capital markets activity currently. Is there -- what do you think is happening? Is it improving? Like there has been some green shoot messages from a number of people, number of banks, private equity, et cetera. Is there anything you can add on to that?

Bjorn, do you want to tackle the first on Bharat's questions?

Yes. On the valuation on Gett specifically, what we could say is that the model is essentially the same as previous quarter and that the discount we apply to the peer multiple is -- continue to be elevated due to the macroeconomic environment in -- of their core markets. Otherwise, it's essentially the same as previous quarters.

And yes, just a color on capital markets activity is, yes, we definitely see the green shoots that you described, is something that we can adhere to. I mean just the fact that we've sold the portfolio of $50 million and a bit and that we haven't done it yet, but we're confident to sell something of an equal size or I mean -- or in fact, much more, I think, speaks to that. So that wasn't possible earlier, but it's now. So I think that speaks to sort of capital markets activities and unlisted assets overall really picking up, not for every asset, but for some. And then I think there is -- should we do some -- I'll just try to tackle a few of the questions that you guys have punched into the keyboard, and then, I think there was -- maybe that's gone. There's a lot of talk about -- a lot of questions about buybacks, yes, and I did -- we're clear of all the covenants. Technically, we have to -- the Board has to decide upon a buyback program and then announce that, and then, we can go. So that's something that's, you can say, on the to-do list, but that has to happen. But yes, we haven't been clear of the covenants enough to buy back stock previously. We are now, very happy about that, because I think as most of you know, I mean, over the past 10 years or so, we've essentially done buybacks to the order of $750 million. So buybacks is something that's very, very clear. It's very close to our hearts. And I think I -- sort of generally speaking, I'd also say that whilst there is activity and investments that are getting done, they're getting done around the level of our NAV. And -- but at the discount that we trade at, it's just very hard to find anything that compares as well as our stock would do. So whilst I'm humble about that there's some sort of practicalities that have to sort of happen, and hence, we can't buy back stock just this afternoon, then we -- than something that's very close to heart. So that -- I think that's what we can say about buybacks right now. Yes, there's -- I referred to a company with Hemnet potential. That would be what I mean is Bokadirekt, which is -- Bokadirekt is a household name here in Sweden. It's a software for beauty industry and for gyms, et cetera, and very similar to Booksy that we did sell. And we -- and apart from being on the same sort of household brand that Hemnet is, it's also a business that's been around for a long time. And that has quite a bit of low-hanging fruit ahead of its sales to sort of pick in order to sort of improve the business overall for customers and for shareholders alike, very much akin to how Hemnet was -- grows in value over the years that we held it and also afterwards for sure. So we're very keen on that. And again, we've seen how great looks like. So we really think that Bokadirekt can assume those -- that kind of level. So that will be the company. Yes, there's been a lot of talk in Israeli press about Gett being sold. That's -- I'm sure you appreciate there's nothing we can comment on. So I'm afraid we can't give you much more color on that. I don't know, Bjorn, do you want to just touch upon the 2 questions that refers to stuff in our -- in the valuation peer groups? There's 1 question on that. Is that something we can talk about or...

Yes, sure. No, I think the question refers to that during the quarter some notable peers of ours have performed really well, Uber, Airbnb, et cetera, is up 30% during the quarter. I mean the general comment there is that, as we see in public markets, the larger names and the likable names have performed really well over the last couple of quarters. Our peer groups includes companies in addition to these well-known tech companies, of course, which it brings it down further. And then also, I think it's fair to assume that our models, where we try to find the most appropriate peer group and then apply a relevant discount to, that there are some elasticity in our models, especially on the upside. And given when there are large movements in the public markets, we do tend to look an extra time at our model to see if it's time to recalibrate it, et cetera, et cetera. So that's there. That would be the general comment on those models and our valuation approach in general. And in addition to that, I see that we have another live question from Sergey at GAMCO that I invite now to ask. Sergey, you should be live now. So if you have a question, please go ahead.

Great. Can you hear me?

Yes.

Per, maybe 2 questions. One on the buybacks if you could maybe elaborate more. So obviously, your priority over the next 6 to 9 months is to retire debt and get into net cash position. But to what degree do you believe you'll have capacity to supplement it with buybacks, obviously, with the stock trading at such a discount? And my second question is, assuming you get to the net cash position, what kind of level of annual investment would you like to maintain going forward over medium term to comfortably pursue investment strategy?

Yes. No, you're right, Sergey. Our priority #1 now is to buy back the debts, which we have done already, and to do that to the extent that we can retire the debt. That's priority #1. But to the extent that we can sort of see on the horizon that there's also cash left beyond that, then what I would -- what I meant to say was that buybacks becomes -- is very close to heart, basically, so -- but one thing at a time, et cetera. And the comments that I made earlier also in the report is that at least we're clear in terms of the covenants now to buy back stock. So that's a hurdle that we've had in front of us. Now that's past us. And that's a good step in the right direction. And then we have to sort of manage liquidity for buybacks of debt, which we've already done. But in terms of new investments, we find it very hard to find anything that compares well to our own stock, which trades at this discount to NAV. So the way -- and also when we are at net cash, et cetera, what we don't really think about a certain number to allocate to new investments every year, we're more optimistically driven. And some years, there are no investments, and some years, there are more investments. So it's not that we -- our Board tells us now you should do investments for $50 million this year; otherwise, you're not doing your job. It's more we look at -- I would typically say, we look at -- something comes -- one thing a day comes across our desks. And then maybe we work on stuff, something, we take something and we analyze it more, like it becomes once a month and then some happen, some don't. But right now, we do that. I mean, we -- there's tons of stuff that's coming across our desk, but we're yet to find something that really sort of is a real alternative to our own stock. Yes, there's a question in the chat here on the portfolio that's EBITDA positive. Yes, the -- Booksy was EBITDA positive. So Booksy out is -- affects us negatively, but...

The net, it's a 1 or 2 percentage point decrease because on the other side, we have -- BlaBla has grown as a share of the total portfolio, which is obviously profitable, so the movements are minor, I would say.

Exactly. So the point I was going to make also -- and thanks for Dennis for clarifying that, but is that the figures that you saw in the slide I had is -- Booksy is gone already, right? So, Bjorn, there's a question on Swvl, which had a sort of a dramatic jump up from a low level. Is there...

Yes. No, no, I think our view there, and just a reminder, so we're not at the Board of Swvl and not an insider at the company, but -- so the company, of course, given all the volatility, got behind on their filings in 2023. But then in December last year, they had filed their first half 2023 financial report in late December, and that seems to be the starting point of this recovery. But given the increase and velocity of the recovery, I'm sure I'm reading the question, here it is, also partly driven by speculation, I would assume. But we hope that the company will file its full 2023 yearly report here this spring as per SEC timelines and then hope that the company recovers, both from an operational standpoint and then obviously in terms of share price performance. So that's the short answer on Swvl. I saw that there is also another question on valuation that I can touch briefly on, whether we value companies on revenue multiple, EBITDA multiple or gross profit multiple. I think as we mentioned in the last report, we believe now, as the company is maturing, overall, we will move more from a revenue multiple base valuation models to EBITDA-based valuation models. The question also here refers to gross profit. We tend to think that given the -- there's some variation in how gross profit is defined among different companies, so that's a more difficult peer group to construct to get really good like-for-like numbers on what's in that gross profit. But I think EV/revenue will hold until we deem it relevant to move to an EBITDA multiple directly. And that assessment we do continuously quarter-by-quarter. And as companies mature now over this year and certainly next, more additional portions of the portfolio will get to the EBITDA multiples valuation models, which in all essence, should be a more robust proxy for the fair value assessment. Yes.

Great. Go ahead, Dennis.

I think it is from SEB on, what the milestones are for Voi to achieve this year to become EBIT positive in regards to this year or in the coming, call it, 12 months or so? But I think the first one there really is to continue to win tenders. Voi has a 27% tender market share after Q1, which is by and for leading in Europe, but to continue to push that and increase that is priority #1, which tenders come with -- with tenders come higher quality revenues. And then essentially, we have higher utilization and higher pricing power in those cities. So that is number one. And the second one is obviously to continue to improve margins. That part of that is to continue driving operational excellence. There's a bunch of initiatives at Voi in place. They're also starting to use AI in certain areas, for instance, for fleet optimization, demand prediction, et cetera. So that is one thing to improve the gross profit margin from roughly 50% this year and to continue improving it into '24 and '25. But then also, as you have probably seen in the media, too, to do this with less personnel and less G&A. So they have reduced costs. They reduced overheads by roughly 50% in the last 2 years. And the good news here is that if you look at Q1 of '24, they have managed to grow top line and improve margins across the board despite having a small return. On the tender side of things, I can mention that they have won -- I think the big ones are really Oslo this quarter. And there's also tenders coming up in Germany where they started winning, which is great. And the big tenders for 2024 include Liverpool, Düsseldorf, Antwerp, and certainly, there are a couple of them that will -- is in the pipeline that we know of currently. But that will, obviously, become larger as we get further into the year. I hope that answers the question from SEB.

Thank you, Dennis.

Thank you. I think we've touched upon most questions here unless I missed someone. If I have, please shoot an e-mail. I will try to address it offline. And other than that, Per, if you have any final remarks before we end the call.

Thank you, everyone, for joining. Really good to see all these questions come through. I hope we have answered most of them. And also thanks for coming in live to ask questions. I think that improves the overall format. So I hope to see you at the AGM and also in some format on the Capital Markets Day, which is the 11th of June. Otherwise, I think we are due to do this exercise again in mid-July. Summer seems a long way away when we look out the window here in Sweden, but it's coming out here.

Okay. Anyway, thank you, everyone.