Wihlborgs Fastigheter AB (publ) ($WIHL)

Earnings Call Transcript · April 21, 2026

OM SE Real Estate Real Estate Management and Development Earnings Calls 41 min

Highlights from the call

In the first quarter of 2026, Wihlborgs Fastigheter AB reported a record rental income of SEK 1.150 billion, marking a 10% increase year-over-year. The company's profit for the period was SEK 548 million, or SEK 1.78 per share, with EPRA NAV rising 10% to SEK 101.14 per share. However, net lettings were negative at SEK -35 million, the first decline in 43 quarters, raising concerns about future occupancy and rental growth. Management maintained a cautious outlook, indicating flat occupancy rates in the near term but expressing optimism about ongoing discussions with potential tenants.

Main topics

  • Record Rental Income: Wihlborgs achieved a record rental income of SEK 1.150 billion, up 10% from the same quarter last year. Management noted, 'This is the fourth quarter in a row when it comes to rental income in an individual quarter.'
  • Negative Net Lettings: The company reported negative net lettings of SEK -35 million, attributed to 84 million in terminations against 49 million in new leases. Management stated, 'The amount of new leases in Q1 are too low to meet that.'
  • Strong Financial Metrics: Operating surplus increased by 9% to SEK 800 million, despite higher winter costs. The interest cover ratio remains strong at 2.9x, indicating solid cash flow generation.
  • Cautious Outlook on Occupancy: Management expects occupancy rates to remain flat in the near term, stating, 'I cannot promise positive net lettings the coming 43 quarters.' However, they noted ongoing discussions with potential tenants.
  • Acquisitions and Investments: Wihlborgs continued to invest in its portfolio, with SEK 562 million allocated to projects. The company has a strong pipeline and expects yields on new builds to exceed 6%.

Key metrics mentioned

  • Revenue: SEK 1.150 billion (up 10% YoY)
  • Profit for the Period: SEK 548 million (SEK 1.78 per share)
  • EPRA NAV: SEK 101.14 per share (up 10% adjusted for dividend)
  • Operating Surplus: SEK 800 million (up 9% YoY)
  • Net Debt to EBITDA: 10.5x (stable)
  • Interest Cover Ratio: 2.9x (above long-term goal of 2.0x)

Wihlborgs Fastigheter's strong rental income and operating surplus highlight its resilience, but the negative net lettings pose a challenge to its growth trajectory. Investors should monitor the company's ability to convert ongoing discussions into signed leases and the impact of geopolitical factors on its operations. Future occupancy trends and successful project completions will be critical catalysts for stock performance.

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

Ulrika Hallengren

Executives
#1

Welcome to the presentation of Wihlborgs first 3 months report 2026. Growth, cash flow and our core business is our mission. And even if the world gives us some challenges, our [indiscernible] continues to deliver not only [Audio Gap] quarter in 11 years, but I see no new trend in this. Just a reminder that a quarter is a short period. Net debt to EBITDA at 10.5x. Good access to financing continues, and we have acquired our first premises in [indiscernible] Copenhagen. And with some figures on that, the rental income was spent SEK [ 520 ] million. The result for the period increased to SEK 548 million, corresponding to SEK 1.78 per share, and EPRA NAV has increased by 10% to SEK [ 101.4 ] per share adjusted for paid dividend. A comparison of the rental income Q1 '25 and Q1 26; indexation, plus SEK 13 million; acquisition, plus SEK 46 million; currency effect, minus 12, additional charges plus 23 million and completed projects, new leases and renegotiations plus SEK 35 million. And the net letting was negative with minus SEK 35 million, the first negative quarter after 43 quarters in a row with positive numbers. New leases of SEK 49 million and terminations of SEK 84 million. Even if every single termination is a loss, the volume of termination as such is close to last year and no drama in that, but the amount of new leases in Q1 are too low to meet that. The year started quite slowly, picked up a bit. But then when the war in the Middle East was a fact, all discussions were pushed forward. Over 50% of the termination was in Denmark, and we know that the market there is quite strong. So I expect that we will see a pickup. We also had SEK 8 million in Sweden from bankruptcies that affected the result with minus SEK 1 million, but terminations had a yearly rental value of SEK 8 million. Now in April, things have changed. And I think the list possibilities and the ongoing discussions actually are quite good. That doesn't mean that things will be easy ahead, and I cannot promise positive net lettings the coming 43 quarters, but at least we have a number of good discussions ongoing. Here are some of the tenants that we have signed during Q1. The defense industry which, for example, the new and expanded lease with [ Mildef ] is a growing sector. And we also see some examples of interesting and growing tech companies like [ Inter mail ] and the tech hub hedge in housing or also continues to attract innovative AI companies. Here, we have the net letting in a historical perspective, lettings in green, terminations in light blue, and dark blue stacks are the net letting. We don't go in [ air ] lease opportunity, which is annoying but the hit rate over time is good, and let's see how we can develop this further on. And the list of our 10 largest tenant in alphabetic order, strong customers, and they contribute with 90% of rental income. 7 out of 10 of governmental tenants and the public sector contributes with 22% of rental income. The rental value as of first of April 26 is SEK 5.157 billion per year, first time over SEK 5 billion, plus 11.6% and rental income SEK 4.523 billion, plus 10.3%. Strong figures, and this is an effect of acquisitions, indexation, investments and, of course, tenants willing to pay for the right quality. Looking at the like-for-like figures, the properties we owned a year ago, excluding projects compared with updated figures, we can see that rental value is up 2.2% and rental income is up 1.1%. Like-for-like does not include the large acquisition we did first of April '25. As said last report, it's good with the growth also in the like-for-like stock. But to get the growth we aim for, acquisition and investments will continue to be important, especially in times of higher vacancy. Changes in the market value of our properties. We started the year with SEK 64,440 billion in accordance with external valuation of 100% of our portfolio. We have made acquisitions, which add on SEK 534 million, investments, SEK 562 million; divestment, minus SEK 4 million; changes in valuation, plus SEK 19 million. And together with currency translations of SEK 170 million, that summarized to a value of SEK 65.642 billion. Valuation parameters wouldn't haven't changed since last -- since year-end. And that includes assumed indexation of 1%. So very small changes in valuations. The growth comes mainly from investments and the transaction we made in Copenhagen. Here's a long-term trend for portfolio growth from SEK 7 billion to SEK 65.6 billion in 21 years and growth every year without taking in any new equity from our shareholders. These figures, the running yields, show how we actually perform in relation to the valuation. So this is not the valuation yield. For the whole portfolio, the occupancy rate is 90%, excluding project and land. And with an operating surplus of SEK [ 3.356 ] million, that gives a running yield of 5.5%. Full let the portfolio would give a running yield of 6.3%. Good earnings capacity in relation to the value of the portfolio and good cash flow generation is the foundation also ahead. The occupancy has improved in some areas and lost a bit in others. What we know is that of the total vacancy, approximately 40% are already signed but not entered yet. And for additional 6% of the vacancy, we have ongoing discussion with possible tenants. So a lot of positive work in that. But we will also add on vacancy from terminations, additional newbuild projects will move from the project line to the running portfolio line. and possible transaction may also affect vacancy. So no exact guiding ahead. But I expect occupancy numbers for the portfolio to be relatively flat next quarter but with somewhat increased income for the base rent figure. Parking and additional charges may vary. In the office portfolio, the market value is SEK 51.451 billion with an occupancy rate of 90%, 90% in Malmo continue with small improvements in Helsingborg to 91%, 89% in Lund and 91 in Copenhagen. The operating surplus from offices summarized to SEK 2.781 billion and a running yield of 5.4%, 6.2% fully let. The logistic production portfolio have a value of SEK 9.350 billion, 92 occupancy in Malmo, 83 in Helsingborg, 95 in Lund and 97 in Copenhagen. In all, 88% occupancy with a running yield of 6.2%, 7.3% [indiscernible]. The development of our total portfolio running yield, 5.5% brings stability, not least since the portfolio overall has a high quality and good location. As noticed before, a good increase of the running yield since 2021. Some sustainability highlights. We have improved from 0 to 35% certified area in our Copenhagen portfolio within 1 year and there is more to come. We have also new sustainability targets from first of January, and we'll report on a wider spectrum with a focus on energy efficiency, carbon dioxide emissions and climate adaptation as well as important social and governance measurements. More on that topic in the report, but I'll show you some figures here. It was a cold start of the year, but to be able to compare how we improve our energy use, we also present figures normal year corrected and of course, also in kilowatt hours per square meters. You can see the improvements quarter-by-quarter and year-by-year. We present the carbon dioxide emissions from scope 1 and 2 in the same way. We have higher emissions in Q1 according to more gas used in Denmark during this period of energy uncertainty in the world. We also compare energy production from solar cells and not at least, we have a new goal till 2020 to replace refrigerants in our cooling systems to more environmental neutral gases, and this work continues. Catalog of our value and properties in our 4 cities and Q1 26, 38% of the value is in Malmo, 22% in Helsingborg, 17% Lund and 22% in Copenhagen. Commuting across [ Teroson ] strait continues to increase. And the entire region benefits from the fact that Sweden and Denmark complement each other's economic cycles. The increased focus on defense and resilience also contributes to investments in the region, not only correlated to industries such as [ SAP and Mildef ] but also due to the fact that 90% of important food to Sweden passes through our region. That means that Sweden depends on the infrastructure in the region and harbors, highways, railways. And of course, the [ Arison ] Bridge must be in good condition and well protected. The region, as such, benefits from that also in a long-term perspective. During the first quarter, we have acquired 10,300 square meters office and retail in [ Carolina House ] in [indiscernible], property value of DKK 370 million and location that is attractive both for living and working. A high density close to the city center interesting mix of older refurbished building and new build and as we see it, potential for growth rent in the area and time for financials. Over to you, Arvid.

Arvid Liepe

Executives
#2

Thank you very much, Ulrika, and good morning, everyone. If we look at the income statement for the quarter, Ulrika has touched upon the figures already. But I would like to highlight that the rental income of 1.150 billion is actually a record for the fourth quarter in a row when it comes to rental income in an individual quarter, up 10% versus the same quarter 2025. And as we write in the report, we had a positive one-off effect of 15 million coming from terminated lease in the Danish portfolio, which was settled with a so-called termination fee. But nevertheless, we had a good growth of 10% of the rental income. The operating surplus amounted to 800 million, up 9%, and that is despite, as you can imagine, having higher costs for snow removal and for heating during Q1. For those of you living in Sweden, you know that the winter was colder and longer than most winters, not least so here in Southern Sweden. Income from property management amounted to SEK 520 million, which is up 12% versus the same quarter previous year. Value changes in the property portfolio were basically flat, plus SEK [ 19 ] million. So no big changes at all. And the underlying assumptions, as Ulrika mentioned, was also basically the same as at year-end. We have positive value changes in our interest rate derivatives portfolio plus SEK 191 million, and in total, a profit for the period of SEK 548 million. On the next slide, looking at the balance sheet, investment properties versus 12 months previously went up by SEK 6.5 billion and stood at SEK 65.6 billion in total. Is the presentation of the slides SP999 Working or not?

Ulrika Hallengren

Executives
#3

Not sure.

Arvid Liepe

Executives
#4

Let's see again. we can get a signal from somebody if the slides are visible. Looks okay over there. Equity end of March stood at SEK 24.9 billion, up SEK 1.4 billion versus 12 months previously. And then we've, of course, during that period, paid almost SEK 1 billion in dividends. The borrowings stood at SEK 34.2 billion, up SEK 5 billion versus 12 months previously. And as you remember, we have made acquisitions of approximately SEK 3 billion during that period. And also, we've had a high investment level in our project portfolio. . Moving to the next slide, looking at our key numbers. The equity assets ratio now stands at 36.8%. The LTV has gone up slightly to 52.1%, and the interest cover ratio is -- continues to be at a strong level at 2.9x. Looking at for share numbers, the EPRA NRV stands at SEK 101.14 per share, which adjusted for paid dividend is up 10% versus 12 months previously. Looking at the next slide, the long-term development of EPRA NRV is visible in this graph. And the average annual growth still stands at 15% adjusted for dividend. So a strong long-term growth trend in EPRA NRV. On the next slide, you see the long-term trend for the other financial ratios that we continuously monitor. On the left-hand side, you see the interest cover ratio. And as you remember, it was on extremely high levels during the zero interest rate period, 2019, 2020, 2021. But the 2.9x level where we are currently is well above the long-term goal or the goal that we have of a minimum of 2.0x. On the right-hand side, you can see the equity assets ratio well above our threshold of 30%, stands at 36.8% currently. And the loan-to-value is well below our limit of 60% at 52.1%. On the next slide, you can see our net debt in relation to EBITDA. Also there, we have a long-term, stable development. This ratio now stands at 10.5x. And we think it's a very relevant number since it reflects the cash flow that we actually generate in our core business. On the next slide, you can see our sources of funding as of end March. Half of our funding comes from bilateral bank agreements with Nordic banks, 16% from the bond market, 34% from the Danish real mortgage system. The bond market is, of course, more sensitive to the geopolitical development than the bank market is. But I would still claim that the bond market works in a quite okay way also over the past month or so. At the beginning of the year, the bond market was actually quite strong, and we issued some new bonds in January, beginning February, on attractive levels, I would claim. Our ongoing discussions with our banking relationships tells us that the banks are continuously willing to lend money. So a positive sentiment from that front. And the Danish real mortgage system, I would claim, has a stable positive development as always. On the next slide, you can see the structure of our loan portfolio. with lots of details. The average interest rate that we're paying currently is at 3.21%, 3.24% if you include the cost of committed credit agreements. This means that our marginal cost of debt is actually pretty close to the average cost of debt that we're paying currently. On the next slide, you can see the development of the fixed interest period, which now stands at 2.6 years, and the average loan maturity, which stands at 4.8 years. No drama in the development of these numbers, and we continue to work according to our financial risk management policy. On the next slide, you can see the development since 2019 of available funds, currently SEK 2.6 billion, which gives us day-to-day flexibility to manage our operations in a good way. And with that, I hand the word back to you, Ulrika.

Ulrika Hallengren

Executives
#5

Thank you, and I'll give you an update on our investments and progress and a quick overview of our largest project. During Q1, we have invested SEK 562 million, and it remains SEK 1.738 billion to invest in approved project. We continue to expect yield on cost at 6% or over 6% for new build offices and 7% or a bit above for Industrial and a good mix of refurbishment and new build in the portfolio. Let's start with projects soon to be completed. In [ Malman Julie ], we continue with [ Blackhornet 1, Vista ] and SEK 884 million investment. The mobility hub was completed in '24 and now the first tenants are in place. One new lease signed in Q1, but we work hard for the next ones. Yield on cost, 6.2% and approximately 40% pre-let. From 1st of January, the total area of the building are included in Malmo offices as classified as project. And during Q2, we will count the project as completed, even if adaptations for tenants will continue, of course. In Lund, [ Post ] 1 Phase 2, a new modern office right beside the central station will also be completed in Q2, but moving in continuous rest of '26, 10,100 square meters, SEK 448 million; yield on cost, 6.5%, a very successful project. In the southern part of Lund, we continue the development [ Dr. Martin ]. This project is for BPC, will also be completed in Q2 '26, and we invest [ 79.30600 ] square meters and yield on cost 7%. And next to that, at Silicon One, [ not ] have started to move in and long University will move in Q4. Well used land area and long leases in total, 14,500 square meters; investment, SEK 260 million and yield on cost, 9.2%. The large prospect [indiscernible] in Malmo for Malmo University is running well in accordance with plan. a bit about 20,000 square meters for [ Malmö ] University at a 10-year lease, Investment, SEK 1.13 billion and completion is planned to late Q4 '27. Discussion is ongoing regarding a possible prolonging of the lease to 20 years, both positive and possible. [indiscernible] 7 in Alma, we will invest approximately SEK 136 million in a preschool for the municipality. 2,900 square meters zoning plan approved and completion is expected to Q3 '27. Public Procurement Act for the contractor is still ongoing. And at the [indiscernible] in Malmo, we refurbished 11,000 square meters. 50% is pre-let to Cloetta and Mid Evolution, with completions starting Q3 '26. Investment, SEK 149 million for total technical shift in the building and a quick change from a quite closed building for [ SAB ] and now open up to being the new entrance to the Dogan ] area, Good interest from tenants and several ongoing discussions. A new project in Helsingborg Atoka, where we invest for our tenant [ MilDef ], a combination of refurbishment of an existing vacant building of 2,400 square meters. We have new build 3,400 square meters and adding on the existing lease of 4,400 square meters. So in total, 10,200 square meters and SEK 97 million investment, including value of the land. Yield on costs, 7.2% and completion in Q3 '27. And the new project started at [ Sunao ] 1226. It will be a mix of tenants and a flexible building for smaller industries logistics. It's a good product where we have very low vacancy in Valmet, Pre-let 30% to 1 tenant, investment, SEK 87 million, and completion is planned to Q4 '27. That was some of the ongoing project and just a touch on future possibilities just as a reminder that we always look for new opportunities and are ready to start when we think the timing is right. Here are some office possibilities in Malmo in the area of [ Naman Dogan ], where we continue to work with the sowing plants. High interest for the future, of course. And even if the figures on gross floor area are estimates the volume are interesting as a part of the other development in the area. And for other possibilities in Malmo, industrial spend plan, research and offices at Mediasite, housing at [ Cana 5 ] and offices at [ Nava ]. In Lund, we continue to develop the land at [ Brussels Colon ] in the southern part of Lund. At the [ Don ] side, we have 3 project possibilities for offices and barges, 2 of them on these pictures, [ IdiolToriet and Delta 2 ]. And at Westerhwork with the Suning plan continues. In Helca, we also have a mix of different possibilities and the main part is in the logistics and industrial segment. And just a summary of Q1 again. Rental income, up 10%, operating surplus, plus 9%. Income from property management, plus 12%, negative net letting minus SEK 35 million. net debt-to-EBITDA at 7.5x. We see good access to financing, and we continue to grow this quarter an acquisition in [indiscernible]. And it goes without saying we continue with our focus on cash earnings and our future growth. And with that, we are open for questions.

Operator

Operator
#6

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Tobias Kaj from Nordea,

Tobias Kaj

Analysts
#7

First question regarding the EO income in Q1 in Denmark. How large was the annual rental income in that contract? And did that already impact the occupancy rate in Q1? Or will we see the effect first in Q2?

Arvid Liepe

Executives
#8

Let me think if I have that number off the top of my head. It relates to [ Sotera ] where ATP have less the building. So it is vacant currently. I don't have the annual rental income off the top of my head, But giving a bit more flavor of what -- the way it works in the Danish market is that when when a tenant terminated a lease, they're obliged to restore the premises to the shape the premises were when they moved in which basically means that when a tenant leaves, you end up in a negotiating position to see how much should they actually pay to restore their premises to the original shape. And it's that type of payment at this SEK [ 50 ] million relates to in this quarter.

Tobias Kaj

Analysts
#9

Okay, I understand. Also regarding the general occupancy rate, I think you previously have said that you expect some improvement during this year. And you're right in the report that 14% of the vacancy is already pre-leased. Does that indicate that we should expect roughly a 1 percentage point increase in occupancy rate during the remainder of the year? Or will it take longer time to see that positive effect?

Ulrika Hallengren

Executives
#10

You should not expect that, it's too early to say that because we also have terminations, of course. So what I see now is that we will be quite flat until Q2. And then it depends on what will happen with project completions and terminations ahead. But I definitely see, as we have also give some notice before, that the rental income continues to increase.

Tobias Kaj

Analysts
#11

Yes. Regarding your interest expenses, how much do you capitalize related to project? And should we expect a significant increase in coming quarters as you expect lots of projects, both in the first quarter and in the second quarter?

Arvid Liepe

Executives
#12

SEK 9 million were capitalized in interest in the first quarter this year. And given that the project volume was very high during 2025, and it will still be reasonably high in 2026, but probably not as high. I wouldn't expect that number to go up.

Tobias Kaj

Analysts
#13

Okay. And final question, I think you have a swap contract of SEK 1.25 billion with very low interest rates that matures during this year. Is that like 1 contract in 1 single quarter? Or would it be a effect...

Arvid Liepe

Executives
#14

No, it's not 1 contract.

Operator

Operator
#15

The next question comes from Lars Norrby from SEB.

Lars Norrby

Analysts
#16

Good morning. I'm looking at that net letting chart Page 7. Looking at the termination volumes, which is, as I think you pointed out, it's quite similar to the past few quarters, it's more an issue of, I guess, the amount of leases signed during the quarter that haven't been high enough to get a positive figure. But if -- just on the termination figures, can you mention are there any individual contracts of size that you can mention? And if so far in that case, where geographically?

Ulrika Hallengren

Executives
#17

We have 2 leases with [ Post node ], 1 in Sweden of SEK 2.5 billion and 1 in Denmark of -- I think the -- it was SEK 7 million or something.

Arvid Liepe

Executives
#18

SEK 6 million, SEK 7 million in that market

Ulrika Hallengren

Executives
#19

No SEK4 million in Denmark. So in total, 6 million, 7 million. And we have [ Al cell Herenalma ] with minus SEK 7 million. And then just a few on minus SEK 2 million. So nothing really large or something like that. But what we see is that the large portion of these smaller leases that we -- that always is a great motor in the business during the core cautiousness was very -- everybody was very worried about what will happen, and we really saw that in the discussion. So we missed that volume in the new leases.

Arvid Liepe

Executives
#20

On the termination side, Ulrika also mentioned it during the presentation, but we had tenant bankruptcies, a few different, not a big one. But those bankruptcies have an annual rental value affecting the net lettings of between SEK 7 million and SEK 8 million in the quarter. That does not mean that we have credit losses of that amount. But it's -- but in the net letting figure, it affects the numbers negatively.

Lars Norrby

Analysts
#21

One more question. You mentioned here earlier on the call, I think something along the line that after what happened in the Middle East, at least discussions ongoing were prolonged or delayed. Have you had cases where they've been -- the discussions have actually been terminated without having a signed contract related to what's happened geopolitically?

Ulrika Hallengren

Executives
#22

Not what I can -- no. And [indiscernible] the list of ongoing discussion have increased significantly since February, March. So April and ahead looks quite decent, I would say.

Operator

Operator
#23

The next question comes from Fredrik from ABG Sundal Collier. Please go ahead.

Unknown Analyst

Analysts
#24

I have 3 questions, if I may. First one is a follow-up to one of the earlier questions about the noncurrent item in Denmark. Is -- the way I understand the answer, it was that they moved out in Q1. But is this a large, material lease in terms of annual rent? And if so, did they contribute fully throughout Q1 and then moved out in late March?

Ulrika Hallengren

Executives
#25

They moved out earlier, I think, in Q4 or something. So this was just a negotiation about the termination fee that were decided during Q1.

Unknown Analyst

Analysts
#26

Okay. Very good, very clear. Perfect. Second answer also, I think pretty straightforward. You talked about the bond market and the banking relationships and they were still sort of eager to lend, et cetera. Have you seen any moves in terms of margins with bank discussions during this, call it, 2 months of geopolitical uncertainty and and the general uncertainty in the market?

Arvid Liepe

Executives
#27

We haven't had any refinancing or new financings. So we don't have any, so to speak, hard evidence of the prices. But my take is that the bank margins during March, April have basically been stable. I have not gotten the impression that they have moved much over the past couple of months.

Unknown Analyst

Analysts
#28

Very good, very good. Then last question on the project completions that you part a little bit during the presentation, [ Black Hornet and Posthornet ] now completed in Q2. But the way I understand that at least [ Black ] probably some movements already in Q1 and then some Q2 and then maybe Q3. How should we think about sort of the contribution in Q1, Q2? Will the tenants start paying in Q2 or later? And did they contribute anything to Q1 at all?

Ulrika Hallengren

Executives
#29

Yes, we had contribution during Q1, and we will see contribution during the autumn as well. But in a slower pace, no large significant moment where things suddenly will contribute in a more smooth, I would say...

Unknown Analyst

Analysts
#30

Is it similar for [ postpone ]? Or is that more binary?

Ulrika Hallengren

Executives
#31

[ Posnet ] has the largest contribution during Q2. And but also during the autumn continued.

Unknown Analyst

Analysts
#32

Okay. So a little bit in Q2, and that's fully or 70%, at least given the occupancy rate from Q3 and onwards?

Ulrika Hallengren

Executives
#33

Yes. We have something assigned for moving in Q4 as well in [ Boston ] , but most of it now in Q2.

Operator

Operator
#34

The next question comes from James Cartel from Green Street. .

Unknown Analyst

Analysts
#35

I had a question on the EPRA CapEx table on Page 25 of the report. I noticed that tenant incentives have increased quite significantly by almost SEK 100 million versus the first quarter last year. And also on the on annualized basis was higher than full year '25. Is this going to be the run rate going forward for the whole of '26? Or is this just due to some one-off items?

Arvid Liepe

Executives
#36

To be open and frank with you, James, predicting the split of CapEx into these different categories is not extremely easy. So the tenant adaptations or the tenant or with [ Epraco's ] tenant incentives, it will continue to be an important part of our CapEx because that into that category falls a number of measures when we adapt premises to new tenants. And that will continue to be an important part of our ongoing business. But predicting the magnitude of these different parts of our CapEx is still tricky. .

Operator

Operator
#37

[Operator Instructions]

Ulrika Hallengren

Executives
#38

Any reaching questions?

Arvid Liepe

Executives
#39

I have seen nothing arriving digitally.

Operator

Operator
#40

There are no more phone questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.

Ulrika Hallengren

Executives
#41

Okay. And of course, if you have further questions, you know just reach out to us and we'll answer. So thank you for today.

Arvid Liepe

Executives
#42

Yes. Thank you, everyone, for listening in.

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