Zalando SE (ZAL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome, everyone, here back in Berlin to our studios. With me today are Robert, David and Roeland, our VP, Finance. You've seen our presentation, we are now happy to answer your questions in the next couple of minutes. Before we start into questions, one last housekeeping. Also you're seeing that we are only not progressing in our strategy, but also progressing with the setup here. We're not only allowing text message this time, but we also give you the chance to answer and ask questions through video. One remarks here or 2 minute remarks here. Firstly, it's only MS Teams is working. And secondly, please limit yourself on 2 questions.

With that said, let's go directly into our Q&A. We have the first question from Jurgen Kolb, Kepler Cheuvreux. He is asking your revenue and GMV guidance of 4% to 9%, appears a bit quite of a range. What is the underlying assumptions for the low and the high point, David, over to you to give a bit more color on that one.

No. I mean as you've read and heard this morning many times, probably our big goal for 2025 is acceleration, acceleration in terms of execution of our strategy, but also acceleration of our growth. And that's what you see reflected in our guidance. The guidance has, I would say, the typical 5-point range that we've also used many times in the past. And what it reflects is obviously the range of expectations and scenarios that we currently see. As we've already shared last year, we think our growth will be mainly driven by 2 factors. One is general market developments where for the first time in 2024, we've seen online segment growth again, and that's obviously something that we will continue to benefit from also going forward. And then the second important ingredient that's obviously the key focus for ourselves is our strategic initiatives that we've talked about this morning, things like the rollout of the loyalty program, our expansion into further lifestyle areas, our work on inspiration and entertainment, but also our key initiatives in B2B in logistics and software. And all these are contributing to our top line performance. And obviously, if the market momentum continues to be positive or even further improve and if all our strategic initiatives come to bear and bring their whole potential throughout the year, then we'll be at the upper end of our guidance. And if the opposite is true, then you will obviously see us more towards the lower end. So that's how you can think about the guidance range.

Thanks, David. We are now moving to a video question coming from Anne Critchlow from Berenberg.

I've got 2 please. I wondered if you could comment on the GMV trend in Q1 to date as compared to Q4? And then secondly, the marketing costs reached 10% of revenues in Q4. How do you expect this to trend going into 2025 and also over the medium term?

Thanks, Anne. Yes. So let me maybe then start with what we are seeing in Q1 so far. I think, broadly speaking, the year started very much how it ended, saw similar positive momentum as in Q4. The first 2 months, as usual of Q1 have been more dominated by sales of fall/winter products. But as the weather has now turned in many parts of Europe, we are seeing also the spring/summer season start, and we expect it to gain more traction in the coming weeks.

On marketing outlook 2025. A couple of words, David.

Yes. So as we already communicated with our pre-release earlier this year. We took the advantage and also the opportunities that we saw in Q4 to continue with our ROI-based investments. We saw good opportunities for those investments, and that's why we ramped up our marketing. Keep in mind, we also had a more larger rebranding campaign that we actually rolled out to showcase our new brand, and we are very happy with the results that we've seen as a result, not just in terms of sales growth development, but obviously, especially in terms of the development of our customer base and key customer metrics. I think though that the elevated marketing cost level that we've seen in Q4 is not necessarily the new normal for what we aim for this year, we will keep our principle on investing in our Air-based way. And I think we'll also stick to the guidance that we provided to you in the past where we said somewhere in the higher single digits, that's probably where our marketing costs will continue to trend.

Okay. There is another question more or less directly linked to that one. Jurgen again asked, can you provide any color on 2025 expectation for also gross margin and fulfillment cost to really go through our P&L, perhaps couple of words on that one, David, as well.

Well, I mean if you look at our adjusted EBIT guidance, I think the first thing to realize is, of course, that we made a big step from 2023 to 2024. We reported 3.5% margin in 2023. We now took that up by a big step to 4.8% last year. And that's great because it already gets us quite close and within reach of the 6% to 8% that we are aiming for to generate in 2028. What you see reflected in our guidance for this year, of course, is that we want to continue to drive growth, and that's why we also invest in key areas of our strategy. And that's why the step that we anticipate for this year is of a smaller nature, and it obviously also means automatically that on a cost line level, there are no major shifts, right, this year. We expect to obviously continue our work on driving efficiencies in OpEx, and we'll also stay focused on the gross margin, but I think you shouldn't expect major shifts compared to 2024 as the margin that we are guiding towards at the midpoint is also not very different from 2024.

Thanks, David. Moving over to the video. This time, Luke, from Morgan Stanley.

I've got just 2 questions. My first is on the loyalty program. I think you said that 10% of customers are now on that program. How quickly can that scale through the course of this year, do you feel. And then second question, just to be clear on the Q1 performance just in terms of getting to the top end of your guidance. Is it right to assume that Q1 has started quite strongly. Sorry, I missed the commentary you were mentioning on the previous call in the waiting room.

So yes, we're close to about 10% of our customer base is now participating in loyalty program. and it's progressing very well. I think there's 2 vectors how it will now increase. I think the one is actually like that we are bringing out a loyalty program to more countries, so actually make thereby more customers, make it more -- to more customers available across our markets, we will scale it to 16 countries in the course of this year. So there's a lot of execution power on this field. And the other vector is within the countries to actually market the loyalty program more broadly. So I think we will see, I think, an accelerated speed now even to the traction that we have so far how this loyalty program will continue to expand.

Perhaps like just sneaking in, we didn't forget Luke's second question, but there's another question from Ashton also on ZMS is like the quantum to which this may impact our operating profit in 2025. So how do we can get the feed for a change you're expecting from the underlying profitability. You may remember that we mentioned financial impact in Q3 last year. So perhaps, David, you can give a glimpse on that one what we shared before to give an idea to Ashton what's all about.

Yes. So I mean, our view on the loyalty program hasn't changed since we talked about it in Q3. So -- especially as the program gains more and more traction, we expect very positive impact on our financials. First, it's going to impact our customer metrics. It's going to drive spending per customer and also frequency. And as you can imagine, the more we can nurture that organic engagement that customers have with our platform, the more beneficial this will also be for our bottom line results because in the end it will also be reflected in lower marketing spendings to engage with customers. And so that's the, let's say, the ultimate goal of this program. What we've talked about is that as we roll it out and launch it in more and more markets, there will be, in a way, a temporary accounting effect related to how the program is treated in terms of revenue deferral, and that will lead to a mid-double-digit million amount as we've communicated already in Q3, so no change there. And it's fully baked into our guidance, of course, as you would assume.

Nice add on. Coming back to Luke's question unlike current trading. So perhaps...

Yes, maybe I can just then clarify a bit the first or second sentence that I said earlier. So I think I started by saying the start of the year was very similar to actually how the year ended for us. As you see from the numbers we reported this morning, Q4 showed 4.8% growth. And so I think that's probably also a good indicator as much as we can give it right now given that we still have the spring/summer season start in a way just happening now of what to expect from us in this first quarter.

Before moving into ZMS, I would move on Slido. Roeland, there's a question on our Q4 difference between revenue and GMV. So maybe you're able to explain the gap between revenue growth and GMV growth in Q4 asked by Adam from Deutsche Bank.

Yes, sure. So throughout the quarter, we generally see a deviation between GMV and revenue growth. It also moves between the quarters. Specifically to Q4, we saw more revenue growth than we saw in GMV. We had a very strong wholesale quarter in Q4. So that helped on the revenue growth. In addition, we saw B2B outpacing B2C growth. So all of that contributes to revenue. And we also saw strong double-digit growth in our ZMS business as this also contributed to the revenue growth being higher than GMV, specifically in Q4.

There's a follow-up from Richard, not only Q4, but also looking into 2025. Do we expect a narrowing of the gap between GMV and revenue growth in either Q1 and full year 2025.

Yes. If I would compare it to Q4 '24, we certainly expect the narrowing. So you've also seen our outlook for the year where both for GMV and revenue, we have a guidance range of 4% to 9%. So again, we'll still have differences between the quarter, but it will be narrower than what we saw in Q4 '24.

One more follow-up on our Q1 current trading comment. Paul from HSBC is asking you have delivered Q1 GMV growth similar to Q4, as said, David, is this on a reported or on a calendar-adjusted basis, keeping in mind that last year had that leap year impact.

Now it's getting very technical already. So the -- yes, last year, obviously in December -- in February, sorry, we had this one extra day. However, at the same time, we also had Easter in March already. Now it's in April. And we think, broadly speaking, that will net each other out. And so what I said earlier really applies to the numbers that we expect to report, but let's also keep in mind the year has just started. We communicated our full year guidance, and that's what we are mainly focused on delivering. As you know us, we are not focused on individual quarters as much.

I hope we now have covered all the current trading questions. With that said, William, from Bernstein, over to you with your 2 questions.

I suppose if we extend from the Q1 question, we think about the building blocks to the 4% to 9% throughout the year. Last year was predominantly active customer growth and a little bit of AOV. How do you expect those levers to play out into 2025. And I suppose what I'm trying to understand is you did your 4.8% in Q1 on the easiest comp of the year? How do we accelerate from there? And then the second question is, obviously, last year, a bit of a focus on wholesale or 1P and improving the margin there. What's your view on the balance between those 2 parts of the business into 2025? Is it a 1P year or is it a 3P year?

Robert, would you mind starting in...

I mean like if I look at all the exciting initiatives that we have for this year like rollout of loyalty program like the initiatives that we -- that we do on rolling out more propositions to more countries, especially on Beauty, the initiatives that we do, like on content integration and product detail pages, like on the quality side of the customer experience. I would probably see that I think we will expect both of these -- both of the key drivers, both the active customer and as well the GMV per active customer contributing to the growth. So in which I think I wouldn't really comment at this stage, but I think like that both of these, we will see actually contributing to this growth corridor. What was the second part of it, that was the building blocks...

Building blocks on our retail and partner program business. How do we see that evolving in 2025. William meant that 2024 was very strong in retail business. How do we view that in 2025?

Yes, I think I would say, I think as well the retail business continues to be very strong as well in '25. So we will have as we see an increase in retail business, but we as well expect an increase in the partner business in '25.

Thanks, Robert. Sticking with you, ZMS. So we also mentioned ZMS throughout the presentation. Ashton from Redburn is asking, could you discuss the progress you've made in ZMS in 2024? And how do you expect the adoption of this product to evolve in full year 2025 and beyond?

So '24 was a good year for ZMS. So we've seen, again, double-digit growth in ZMS in '24, like beyond EUR 200 million in revenues that we do. In '25, we continue to see double-digit growth in ZMS. So -- and I mean, in the future, I think there is a lot of great potential that will bring us even more towards a 3% to 4% corridor that we actually want ZMS to go towards in the midterm. So there will be like what I call a key initiatives there. So first of all, the adoption of the self-service tools, where we see actually very good traction, combined actually with more -- with more tool set and insights of how we actually help partners to understand where actually goods -- ROI-based opportunities lie for them to display their products and telebrand stories. Another important building block will be of how we actually help partners to, yes, run after [indiscernible] uncovered opportunities, how they can actually expand their business outside of DACH. So we still have like a strong focus in terms of that ZMS penetration within DACH and from our partners. And I think there's an opportunity to move outside of DACH. And I think the third important building block like in '25, but as well beyond this, is going to be like new and enhanced products for ZMS that we offer to partners, especially now as we go in to more content-based inspiration entertainment features, all of these features and all of these experience will have as well like an organic way of how partners can engage with consumers on the platform, but as well, we'll be covered as with inorganic ways where you can actually buy as well through ZMS, more exposure to consumers. So I'm building these products on a mid-funnel basis well -- as will be I think a third element of growth for ZMS in the future.

Moving on to ZEOS. David, you talked a lot about ZEOS and how we evolved in 2024. Richard from RBC is asking how many brands like NEXT, definitely something we have announced last year, we'll have a single inventory view of their own stock and stock held by Zalando.

Well, we think actually that one stock pool proposition, which is essentially this idea of bringing all your stock into one infrastructure to serve multiple channels, not just one channel, is really an exciting part of our value proposition and also a pretty unique part of our value proposition. It's also, for example, one of the key questions that we got from partners immediately following our announcement of the attention to acquire ABOUT YOU. Because obviously, that just makes this 1 stock pool idea even more compelling. I mean where do you want to stock to sit? You typically want it to sit also where it's closest to your most important channels, right? And I think that's where for many of our partners, Zalando already is an important channel, together with ABOUT YOU, it's going to be an even more important channel. And it's great to see that great brands and retailers, such as NEXT see this opportunity. And I personally feel based on the interest that we keep getting, that's not going to remain an individual case, but it will -- it's essentially showing us what the true potential of this proposition can be also for many other brands in Europe and also globally.

Moving back to Robert, I got another question on Slido regarding the trade conflict between U.S. and China, probably not only China. Following the increased tariffs is Ben asking on Chinese goods. Chinese companies are now increasingly flat the European market. Are we worried about this and how do Zalando plan to deal with that situation. I think that's the first question. And secondly -- yes, no, I think let's get started with that, how do we think about that?

Yes, I mean, First of all, I think the recent trade conflict discussions, I mean, like in the core of Zalando we don't really see like how it affects us because we're European based, we're only active in the European markets and as well our supply chains, mostly Asia based [indiscernible] our partners are through mostly based with Asia. So as an immediate effect that we don't really see it affecting our business. When it comes to these -- I mean to development that Ben mentioned, of like Chinese -- like Chinese companies being here in Europe or like having offering their products directly from manufacturers into the European markets is -- so I think for us, it's like our focus is quality e-commerce, quality class e-commerce. So we work with brands. We tell their stories in our platform. So it's a different focus that we have. So it's telling the stories of brands of several different brands. It's a quality as to e-commerce that is actually offered to millions of European customers appreciate. So it's not really our focus. I mean, that being said, as a European-based company, I think we welcome generally the recent commentary from the European Commission that these developments in e-commerce are increasing on the radar where like loopholes are exploited where product safety standards are not met and that this is actually something critical that needs to be solved. And I think as a European citizen and company, I think we welcome that there is more focus on these topics.

There's another question, sticking with you, Robert. Ben, from Stifel is asking on TikTok shops. There's a lot of noise on TikTok shop launch in several continued European markets. Can you provide an assessment on that competitor? And what is Zalando's TikTok strategy. He thinks we are already on TikTok shop in the U.K., which I can confirm. Is that the way forward?

Yes. I mean, we are, I think, generally, I think, very curious about it because I think the live streaming is -- I mean it's a big area of consumer interaction consumption in China. It's nascent, still like -- or like not yet big or adopted so far in the Western economies. So -- and we're very curious on it. So therefore, we as well cooperate with or integrate with TikTok in U.K. where we actually drive a lot of learnings as well how this works, how it's actually adopted, how it -- how it will become. And I think figure out as well, like if it scales, once if it scales of what's actually all right, way of engaging with such an ecosystem. So yes, we're curious.

I would now move on to video question. It's coming from Yash, UBS. Please ask your questions.

And apologies if some of these were asked while we were in the waiting room, but I have 2 questions. The first one is on capacity. Can you please give us an idea of after the Paris warehouse going live and also with Frankfurt on the way, I mean, where are we in terms of capacity in terms of euro-GMV basis? And can you also give us some color of how much of that is an absolute capacity increase versus a productivity increase that may come from things like automation or better use of labor, et cetera. So that's the first question. And the second question somewhat related to that is on NEXT, your partnership with NEXT was something that you called out in the presentation. So what are some of the capability enhancements that you have done to your logistics network because of that partnership? And what basically are the learnings from that, that puts you in a very, very strong position to then offer that to some of the other partners?

Sure. Happy to take your questions. I mean on the capacity side, as we, I think, already communicated last year, we are in a good position that the capacity that we have and also that's coming online in the next 1 or 2 years with both Paris and Frankfurt ramping up is sufficient to cover our growth plan until 2028. And to be very clear, also the combined capacity that we see for Zalando and ABOUT YOU is definitely sufficient to cover our combined growth trajectory in the years to come as soon as this transaction closes. And that's true both for the B2C side, but also for the B2B side. And that's also the key reason why, for example, you don't see a big uptick in our CapEx spending because we have this capacity. It's coming online as we need it essentially and we'll leverage that capacity to drive our growth, both in B2C and B2B. And now coming to your next question on NEXT and how it can potentially propel us forward. I mean -- of course, NEXT is a great reference case for us. We've also seen that there's quite a bit of interest in outreach following that news also from other brands and retailers. But what has also always been true essentially for all of Zalando, from other partnerships that we've created over the years. We typically also learn a lot from our big partnerships and it makes us better. And I think the same is true for NEXT. So I think NEXT helped us understand what the important requirements are for very large customers to use our infrastructure. And that's why, as we now prepare for the rollout of NEXT, which is happening throughout the year, we are investing into building additional capabilities, capabilities that will support NEXT, but also will essentially be available for all the other merchants on ZEOS and make our proposition even stronger. To name a few examples. We're talking about advanced fulfillment capabilities, giving NEXT and also other merchants, the chance to optimize customs setups with a virtual bonded warehouse, which we think is a very innovative solution that will further contribute to the USP that we offer to serve really all the markets from one stock pool and optimize customs spending at the same time. We are talking about improved onboarding and inventory management, essentially making it even faster and easier to onboard any article irrespective of how it's coded. And then last, but not least, we are also taking this as an opportunity to now expand ZEOS into 10 additional markets, markets that NEXT is already serving, but where so far ZEOS wasn't present. And that's obviously also going to mean that we can then, at the end of this year, truly say we can cover all of Europe for you. And I think that's an important proposition for many merchants, both large and small.

There's another question through Slido from Georgina from JPMorgan. Robert, can you please provide an update on the progress of the CFO appointment?

Yes. Yes. So we are -- this is about continuous screening and we interviewing with candidates for that role. No news yet to share. I think when there's news to share, we will do in due course. I think in time being, like we are in this interim period, we're very happy that -- I mean, David has done this role as CFO like very successfully as well in the past. So that he is now an interim covering for the next to his co-CFO as well for the CFO role. I think it's very -- so I think it's a very good setup as well.

Then the next question on -- from Stephan is on balance sheet refinancing. So perfect fit for David. Could you highlight the balance sheet refinancing going forward with the changing European interest rate, 10 years to 3% to 4%. Stephan is also mentioning that we have a bond outstanding EUR 400 million in the [tranche D] maturing in August this year. So any insights you are able to give here, David?

Well, I think, first of all, I think we just reported this morning that we have a very healthy cash balance and a strong balance sheet, around EUR 2.6 billion in cash. We will use that cash to now pay for the transaction as we've communicated in December. And we'll also obviously use it to repay the convertible once it becomes due this summer. The first tranche of 2. Second one will only become due in 2027. That will leave us with still a strong and healthy amount of cash on the balance sheet. And yes, there are no further plans on financing for this year.

We talked about ABOUT YOU shortly in our presentation. Richard from RBC is asking what ABOUT YOU's integration costs and synergies do you intend to include this year?

Well, I mean, what we can definitely confirm is that we see strong value creation potential with the transaction. As we've communicated, we aim for generating EUR 100 million per year in terms of synergies on an EBIT basis in the longer term. Everything that we've also seen in the last few months make us very confident that this is achievable. As you can imagine, we've now started joint value creation planning together with ABOUT YOU, but it's still obviously in the planning stage, we can only execute once the transaction is closed. But so far, we're very happy with how the planning is progressing. And after closing the transaction, we'll also be happy to update you more on the impact for this year. As you can imagine, that will also depend on the timing of the actual closing because, yes, depending on how many months of the joint group we have this year, the numbers might slightly change.

We are moving on to the video again. We'll have Mia from Exane BNP Paribas.

Maybe just on the chart you showed in your results about the cohort development. It shows that 2022, 2023, those cohorts actually saw GMV decline year-on-year. In 2024, obviously increased. What makes you confident that the 2024 cohort will not see a decline in '25? And then maybe previously, you've talked about being quite happy with the 50 million active customer base and rather focusing on maximizing the share of wallet. Why the change for this now?

Yes. So I mean, if you look at our cohort trends, I think there are some developments in there that you've always seen in our cohort charts also pre-COVID, right? And that's the general development that in the first year of every new cohort. So for example, in 2024 for the 2023 cohort, you see some first year churn. And that's just due to the reality that unfortunately, we cannot retain 100% of the customers that we newly acquired in a given calendar year. That has always been true. And so I guess, what we are primarily happy about is that the amount of new customers that we are able to acquire has increased, and we are convinced that a significant share of these customers we acquired in 2024 will also then continue to shop with us in 2025 and contribute to our growth journey because what we have also seen in the past is the longer the lifetime of these customers on our platform, the more these customers spend. And that's also what our strategy is very much geared towards, right, making sure that we provide a high-quality experience and also increase the share of wallet with customers over time as we've tried to explain this morning. What you also see in our cohort development, of course, is that we are really focused, as we said, on driving profitable growth and maximizing customer lifetime value. And so some of the changes that we've made, for example, on improving our order economics through introducing minimum order values and so on, they obviously are also reflected in these core developments. But we think long term, it's going to just lead to a more sustainable and healthy customer base, and that's why we are happy with the developments that we see. With regards to active customer development in general, yes, as we said last year, we have a clear focus on driving customer spending and GMV per customer. But we are equally happy to see a continued growth in the active customer base. It's, I guess, more a question of how much of each. And as we've said last year, especially if we think about the longer time horizon until 2028, we expect it to be more driven by increasing spending of customers than by active customer growth, but both drivers are important.

Then another question to you, Robert. Adam from Deutsche Bank is asking on Sports and Beauty, are there any big brands you're looking to have on the website? And is there any reason why they don't want to join and sell via Zalando?

Yes. So I mean I think in Sports, I think it's not really a question about the big brands. I think in Sports, it's more a question around competency [indiscernible] worlds in Sports, like we're talking about running and football and auto. And I think here, it's actually very much about this -- the competency that actually they are looking for in a partner to be able to advise customers and be like -- be of competence, yes, partner, an intermediary between brands and customers. I think here, we're also very happy with what I showed in the charts like our -- the share of more expensive running shoes that we're actually able to sell. What we actually see now in such a subsegment is running that we are able to, through advice and through our competency to advisers for customers as well go for like running shoes that are actually like good investments as well for customers. So that's, I think, more the sports side. It's more like a subsegment by subsegment, being competent in there. And then quite as well these not niche, but I think with these authenticator brands that are really helpful and important for these subsegments to actually have to really be the one-stop shop as well for customers in these subsegments. For Beauty, I think it's a different topic because in Beauty there is many, many brands that we don't yet have, but we're actually making very good progress here on that front as we -- as both the proposition for customers gets better. A lot of like interesting features are launched. And we -- as we get more and more credible destination for -- both for brands and for customers where they actually as well expand all the Beauty area. So here, it's actually about a big acquisition piece of brand still.

You talked a bit longer about also our plans of ZMS and Rocco from Arete is asking, would you also aim to roll out ZMS to partner sites on the B2B side at some point, knowing that 1P data you have across Zalando and then also hopefully from some onwards from about you. So kind of creating additional touch points with the brands here beyond logistics and software and the likes.

Yes. I mean, I think within our ZMS proposition, we already do to some extent, off page advertising, opportunities were in large campaigns, outside of the Zalando side. Obviously, here, the gross margin is not as high as it's when it's on page, but we do it and actually offer it as a service. And I mean, we will know like in ZEOS, I think that we can as well expand it. But at the moment, it's not really a focus of ours. Our focus in ZMS realize on the on-page piece.

We have another question coming from the video. So Sarah from Barclays, the floor is yours.

So firstly, I'd like just a follow-up on the loyalty scheme. Thank you for the color that 10% of active customers are now using it. But I was just curious as to whether you could provide some color about based on your early markets, so France, Austria and I suppose to some extent, Germany, what are you seeing in terms of customer behavior? And what kind of gives you confidence that throughout 2025, that loyalty scheme will provide that kind of increased customer engagement to offset the loss of subscription fees for this year. And then my second question on Q1. Just if you could give some color on what you're seeing in terms of promotional activity and discounting and what your expectation for gross margin is for Q1.

So one is on David.

Okay. So let's start with Q1. I think as I said earlier, we've seen the usual seasonal pattern, right? Q1 typically starts with the fall/winter end of season sale. To us, it felt like, I would say, pretty normal end of season sale. In terms of promotional activity, it's probably also a sign that Zalando, but also others in the industry have been quite prudent in the inventory management and also successful with the sell-through. And therefore, we've seen a rather normal promotional environment for spring/summer season, obviously, it's still super early. There's no promotions at the start of the season. It's probably something that we can comment on more in our next call once we also get a read on the mid-season sales that are typically happening around April time frame.

And the second question -- or her first question was on loyalty program. So what gives us confidence? What kind of first insights are we able to share with our first launches last year gives us confidence that this will help loyalty to drive up.

Yes. So I mean, why we're very confident on it is that with this loyalty scheme that we are -- the program that we're now running, we are rewarding customers like the broad set of customers because actually sign up is for free. And you can just actually -- sign up actually to participate in the program. And all of the customers, not only those ones that actually pay are rewarded for both the engagements. So we call it like a mission if you actually visit more often if you fill out like a sized profile, so you're actually earning points and as well for the purchase as well earn points. So it actually can affect the customer base much more broadly than actually only the signed up or the paid program that we were running before. And I think what gives us very much confidence is that all the -- like when you roll out such a program, you have certain assumptions about what kind of behaviors customers will actually do and how you are able to affect that. But most of these assumptions as we have had in the early testing, they were either fulfilled or actually over fulfilled. And so we actually saw like a lot of very positives as well surprised. When it comes to the overall rollout, we now see that early signs, and I said early because it's not a huge scale yet because it's really like it's developing now, it's ramping up now, that the early stages of like the increased engagement that we see is actually positive. So therefore, I'm personally very pumped up that this will be like a major tool for us to affect as well loyalty and GMV spend as well retention and engagement on the platform in a big scale in the following years.

Sticking with loyalty, Roeland. There are some financial questions related to that. One coming from Georgina regarding the loyalty and the provision building up. Can you explain how this is expected to be phased throughout the year. That's the first one. And I think also can take the second one from Adam on the financial cost of the loyalty program, which line of the P&L will it be visible? I think these are 2 quick ones.

Yes. So let me start with the second one. I mean obviously, when the loyalty program creates frequency and retention, that helps us in GMV. So that effect is fully reflected in our GMV guidance for the year with 4% to 9%. If we think about specific P&L lines, as people sign up for the loyalty program and they qualify for tiers, they earn certain benefits. And for these benefits that they earn, but have not yet used, we defer a portion of our revenue up to the moment that they utilize these benefits, and that is what is creating the provision. So in terms of phasing throughout the quarters as we are launching more and more markets and more and more of our customers are signing up in 2025, we would expect that phasing to be rather small in Q1, and then it will scale up as we go through the quarters. Now as we get to later in the year, obviously, also more customers will be using those benefits. So a portion of the revenue that we deferred early in '25, we will then recognize. In aggregate, we still expect for 2025, the impact to be in the mid-double-digit million euros as a onetime nonrecurring revenue effect. So also to Adam's question on where do we see it in the P&L, it's a revenue deferral. So you'll also see the effect in gross margin.

So thanks, Roeland. Yes, looking at time and ramping up as we talked a bit about ABOUT YOU and not only use the video, but also text, question into Slido, David, how confident are we that we might be able to secure the remaining 10% of ABOUT YOU, as we shared today that we already have secured more than 90%.

Well, I mean, first of all, we are happy that we achieved this important milestone of getting beyond 90% of voting shares secured. I think it also shows the strong support that we have for the transaction, not just from the major shareholders that we already announced in December, but also now a significant share of the free-float shareholders. And yes, the tender period is still running until midnight tonight. So we are also, obviously, looking forward to even more people tendering their shares. And then we'll take it from there. .

Cool super. I think there are no more questions left. I also don't see anyone on the screen waiting. As always, the IR team is happy to answer all of your questions in the course of today or over the next. We also will travel with the management over the next couple of weeks. So happy to see all of you. With that said, yes, thank you very much for joining us today for listening into it. And yes, thanks from Berlin, and happy Thursday, everyone, and take care and see you soon. Bye-bye.