ZOO Digital Group plc (ZOO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

2026 AGM. It is now past 5:00 p.m. A quorum of members is present, and I can declare the meeting open. I am Nathalie Schwarz, Chair of the company. May I introduce you to my fellow directors, being Mickey Kalifa, Alan Newman, Dr. Stuart Green and Robert Pursell. Apologies have been received from Gordon Duran who is unable to attend the meeting as he's actually with traveling to meet a customer in Asia. Before moving on to the formal business of the meeting, I'd like to say a few words about the company's performance over the last year and also about our recent activities and progress. The providers of streamed content in the global media entertainment industry are evolving their offerings, which is creating an increased demand for our tech-enabled services as well as new emerging opportunities for our business. This is mirrored by ZOO's own position, having completed our restructure and the rightsizing of our operations to profitable growth as well as evolving our service offerings to meet the changing requirements from customers. As a result, the Board expects to deliver revenues for H1 FY '27 of at least $23 million, an increase on both H1 FY '26 and also H2 FY '26 and in line with management expectations. The Board remains focused on disciplined execution, operational efficiency and cash generation as it seeks to translate improving activity levels into sustained revenue and profit growth. In FY '27 today, we have seen an increased level of activity driven predominantly by the localization of existing content rather than new productions, which has led to an increase in Media Services and subtitling work. This has been typically one-off in nature, but demonstrates the flexibility of ZOO's customer-led end-to-end offering and also our ability to provide a broader range of services to support our customers. We are also starting to see emerging indications of an increase in the pipeline of original content coming through, which is expected to contribute to revenues in H2 FY '27. The Board is confident that the structural shifts across the providers of streamed content in global media and entertainment sector play to ZOO's strengths. These providers are increasingly seeking to replicate aspects of live or near real-time traditional [indiscernible] to drive growth, both by attracting new audiences and engaging existing subscribers. This is leading to investments in new formats and different content categories with shorter turnaround times. In this area, ZOO continues to leverage its core competitive strength in providing a proven technology platform and tech-enabled solutions blended with our human expertise and AI to meet customers' changing requirements whilst maintaining more leading quality and security. This is evidenced as we continue to win new business to and expanded scope of engagement with several customers, enabling us to diversify our revenues and reduce customer concentration in FY '27. I am now pleased to deal with any questions you may have on any of today's agenda items. But please for now, could these be restricted to questions on the annual report and the proposed resolutions. Once the AGM matters have been completed, and the formal meeting closed, there will be an opportunity to ask support questions that you may have on other matters. I would like to remind you that the chairs of the Audit and the remuneration committees are also available to answer questions. Before asking a question, you should give your name and state whether you are a shareholder, proxy or corporate representative. If you are a proxy or corporate representative, please state your name and also the name of the shareholder that you will represent. Are there any questions? Okay. Thank you. There are no questions. Let us move on then to the formal business of the meeting. So [indiscernible] from asking any further questions later in the meeting, if you so wish. May I ask the shareholders present if anyone objects to taking the notice convening the Annual General Meeting as read. Nobody is objecting to record. May I also remind you that when it comes to voting on the resolutions, ordinary shareholders have in person proxies here in person who've been duly appointed by member entitled to vote, and those show here as corporate representatives are all able to vote and see at the meeting. This year, you asked to approve 8 resolutions. Resolutions 1 to 7 will be proposed as ordinary resolutions. That means that each of those resolutions to be passed, more than 50% of the votes cast must be in favor of the resolution. Resolution 8 will be proposed to [indiscernible]. This means that for that resolution to be passed, at least 75% of the votes cast must be in favor of the resolution. Please note that all the resolutions set out in the Notice of Annual General Meeting will be taken on a poll rather than a show of hands. A poll ensures that each shareholder present in person, by corporate representative or by proxy is entitled to 1 vote on a share. The Board believe this represents the barest approach to voting and is in line with best practice in corporate governance. It gives all eligible shareholders the opportunity to participate in the decision-making and have their votes recorded even if they are unable to attend the meeting. A person entitled to more than 1 vote need not use all of its votes or high votes in the same way. In accordance with Article 69 of the company's Articles of Association, I appoint Robert Pursell become Secretary to act as scrutineer. The scrutineer will supervise the conduct of the polls and the accounting and the reconciliation of fence cars, including votes submitted by proxy. Any question concerning the visibility or validity of the vote will be referred to me as Chair at its termination in accordance with Article 77 of the articles. If you have not previously appointed a proxy to vote on your behalf, we have appointed a proxy, but you wish to change your vote, please raise your hand now and a poll card will be provided. Please note that prior to the AGM, proxy votes representing 49.21% of the number of ordinary shares in issue were lodged in respect of the Annual General Meeting resolutions. A summary of the breakdown of the proxy votes already received on each resolution is as follows: Resolution 1 is to receive the company's annual report, strategic report and directors and auditors report for the year ended 31st of March 2026. Both cast in favor, 48,172,067. Votes cast against 4,717, votes abstaining 204,166. Resolution 2, to approve the Directors' Remuneration Report, other than the parts containing the directors' remuneration policy for the year ended 31st of March 2026, which sets out how the remuneration policy has been implemented in paying the company's directors in the year ended 31st of March 2026. Votes cast in favor, 48,085,907 votes. Votes cast against 70,163, votes sustaining 224,831. Resolution 3, to approve the reappointment of Gordon Doran, who retires by rotation pursuant to the company's Articles of Association as a director of the company. Votes cast in favor, 48,134,769. Votes cast against 10,609, votes abstaining 235,574. Resolution 4, to approve the reappointment of Alan Newman as a Director of the company who has been appointed by the Board since the last Annual General Meeting. Votes cast in favor, 48,149,809. Votes cast against 9,910. votes abstaining 221,234. Resolution 5, to approve the reappointment of [indiscernible] LLP as auditors of the company. Votes cast in favor, 48, 151,014 votes, votes cast against 16,703, votes abstaining 213,237. Resolution 6 to authorize the directors to determine the remuneration of the auditors. Votes cast in favor, 48,160,572, votes cast against 12,500, votes abstaining 207,823. Resolution 7, to authorize the directors to allot shares at an aggregate nominal amount of [ GBP 327,727.42 ]. In line with the current institutional guidelines, this represents approximately 1/3 of the company's current issued ordinary share capital. The authority will expire at the next AGM of the company, all on 30th of November 2027, whichever is earlier. Votes cast in favor, 48,041,719, votes cast against 83,109, votes abstaining [ 256,218 ]. Resolution 8 to empower the directors to allot shares to patch without first offering them to existing shareholders on a pro rata basis. In line with current institutional guidelines, the power is limited to a nominal amount of GBP 98,381.22, which represents approximately 10% of the company's current issued ordinary share. The resolution also empowers the directors to deal with technical problems arising in relation to offers such as rights issues and open offers, for example, in relation to fracture entitlement and overseas shareholders. The resolution will expire at the next AGM of the company or on the 30th of November 2027, whichever is earlier. Votes cast in favor, 39,078,114, votes cast against 9,083,574, votes abstaining 219,269. If you have previously launched a completed proxy form nominating the chair to vote on your behalf and you do not wish to change your vote, then you need not complete a poll card. For those of you who either wish to change your proxy vote or have not previously cast a proxy votes and wish to take part in line with the poll, you will need to complete the poll card. Could I ask any shareholders, proxies and corporate representatives are here today who wish to complete a poll card to raise their hands. Nobody. For the record, nobody has raised their hand. The final results will be announced at the London Stock Exchange as soon as practical following the conclusion of this meeting and will also here on our website. Members of the Board will also be available to answer any questions from shareholders informally after this. After the AGM and after 9 years of being on the Board, Mickey Kalifa will be stepping down to director. On behalf of the Board and everyone at the company, we all wish our sincere thanks and appreciation making for all of his [indiscernible] to the company over the last 9 years and we wish him all the best for the future. I'm to able to [indiscernible] the formal part of the AGM closed. Thank you all very much. I will now hand over to Dr. Stuart Green.

Thank you very much, Nathalie. So yes, welcome, everyone, all those shareholders in the room and many more who dialed into this meeting online. What I propose to do now is in a short presentation on progress of the company and cover some of the key themes that Nathalie covered in her statement earlier. And I'll try and need a maximum amount of time for a Q&A session afterwards. Obviously, those who are present in the room are welcome to speak their questions directly. [Operator Instructions] And we'll get through as many as we can in the time available to us, and we are intending to wrap up at about 6:00 p.m. GMT, which is summertime. Okay. So that's -- let's kick off. And for the benefit of those who are new or relatively new to the story or perhaps to have followed the story in the past and are interested in hearing again what ZOO is up to. Then I'll just explain that we are a tech-enabled service provider to the media and entertainment industry. We work typically for content producers and for streaming companies. And we help them deliver their film and TV programs and increasingly, lots of other types of content besides to -- into all streaming services globally and in over 8 different languages. The services that we deliver are essentially all the things that is necessary to do to take a finished product, which could be a TV series or a film or a podcast or any of many different things now. And to deliver it into a streaming platform properly formatted, so there are no glitches, no issues, no quality problems and do that in whichever languages our customers require to be -- to reach the consumers. So ZOO's origins are actually as a software company. That's where we started out. So as I mentioned, we're a tech-enabled service provider, but technology enablement and automation is and has always been central to the way in which we go about doing what we do. And in fact, I'll touch on this a little bit more in a second. Much of the R&D work that we're doing at the moment and that we anticipate doing in the future is all around capitalizing on AI to bring a wider range of benefits, both to us and to our customers. So let me talk, first of all, about what's happened over the last 3 years. I suspect there may be folks listening to this presentation who have bolted the company in the past and have been perhaps minded to catch up with what has been happening. Given that we've seen 3 years of significant disruption within our sector, and that's been caused by our largest customers who have been for a long time, traditional studios and producer of content, they've been going through a process of optimizing their business for streaming. They've been -- they have enjoyed very strong revenues and cash generation for decades coming from the traditional industry sources through cable channels and network television. And of course, consumption through those channels is in decline in rapid decline, and it is being replaced by streaming. And our customers have had to take -- make influence on changes in the way in which their business operates in order to be able to optimize for the future. in a world that really hinges around exploitation of this intent content through different streaming channels. That disruption that has taken -- let's take place for the last 3 years or so, as I mentioned, has had quite a material impact on our sales, and you'll see that in the results that we've published over the course of the last few years. But this year, for the first time in 3 years, we've seen multiple signs of our customers really coming through this period and certain behaviors that we enjoyed 3-plus years ago starting to return to the market. Over a period of time that lapse, what we've seen our customers do is adapt to the evolving consumer requirements that they now see and in particular, to capitalize on the fact that more and more consumers are watching all matter of different content online through streaming services. And our big customers for the streaming companies obviously want to maximize the share of that time that's spent by their subscribers on working much their platforms. So what we now see is that there are, as I mentioned, many different content types available through streaming services. So a few years ago, services like Netflix and Disney+ and others were predominantly about TV, episodic TV content feature films. But now we're seeing all different kinds of content that have been enjoyed by audiences on TV channels for us for decades coming on stream services. So there are many types of -- there's many types of incent content that traditionally would have been the preserve of local broadcasters [indiscernible] the BBC and IDV and the kind of content they make for data and television and chat shows and a whole range of other things. Those haven't been -- in the past, we haven't seen those on streaming, but they're now coming to streaming. And in a way, you can think of streaming as being like the new television. So at some point in the future, I'm sure traditional television will be a thing of the past. We'll consume everything through streaming channels. But we'll be able to enjoy the same kinds of content and more we've always watched on in this country on the BBC and ITV. What has been happening over the last 3 years is that the traditional studios and our major customers have been adapting their content strategy streaming. They've been ensuring that what they offer to their subscribers is enough to keep them coming back time and time again and paying a subscription every month. And in the industry, what that's all about is optimizing what virtual churn rate. The number of subscribers who come along and then cancel their subscription. So they want to minimize that number. And a few years ago, many streaming companies were finding that number was quite high. 3 years on, they've all taken steps to modify their strategies in order to reduce that churn rate. And I think across the board, streaming companies are now getting a much reduced churn rate and customers paying to come back every month. And that's because, in part, they've looked at the content and make sure that it has a broad appeal to their subscribers, and there is enough new material coming on to their platforms to keep people coming back. Also one of the interesting developments that we've observed in the market is that there is more live and near-live content, as Nathalie mentioned in the statement, and in particular, time-sensitive content that's coming on to stream services. And that's particularly interesting for us because when that kind of content is produced by our customers who are offering a global solution. They obviously want that content to reach in many different countries, and that means adapting that content into many different languages. So what this time-sensitive content coming to streaming means is that our industry, our customers are looking for ways to localize their content, but on time scales that are much shorter than they have been in the past. And that's because this kind of content, as I mentioned, was typically produced by local broadcasters who would usually be serving a single language market. And now that content is coming into global streaming services who are serving their content to audiences in many countries speaking many languages. And therefore, if you have time-sensitive content, you want to reach those broad audience as quickly as possible. So while our customers, what we see increasingly from our customers is they want to shorten the time to market of their products. And because delivering their products on to their global platforms means localizing them into languages, which is exactly the work that we do then we're seeing a demand for shorter and shorter turnaround times for the services that we deliver. One thing that hasn't changed over this period is the need for our customers to have high-quality output. So that remains absolutely imperative, and it's a characteristic of the kind of vendors that can serve these big global streaming services, we all have to deliver content to the localized materials to the very highest standard. So as those changes have occurred in the market, and let me just turn to what ZOO has been doing at a time. Clearly, we've had 3 years of disruption. We've seen revenues have. We've had [indiscernible] accordingly, but we have continued to invest and to develop our technology platforms and propositions to make sure that we are -- that we have a business that can thrive in this changing market dynamic. So one of the things -- one of the key things that we've done and we spoke about this a lot and the results, and Nathalie touched on it a moment ago as well. We've been restructuring our cost base so that we now have a much leaner and more efficient operation to fulfill the services that we provide. We've continued with our innovation in technology and also in our integration of AI throughout our workflows. So AI is we see as a fantastic opportunity for us, and we are capitalizing on that already to, as I mentioned, deliver benefits, not only to the way in which we work internally, but to pass on benefits to our customers in terms of shorter time to market is a key one that I've touched on already. But in our use of AI, we are very sensitive in the way in which we use it. And one of the crucial things, as I mentioned, is maintaining extremely high levels of quality that's important to all our customers. And therefore, our use of AI is always with human overside to ensure that there's no chance that by adopting our solutions, we will, for sure, in delivering on the very highest quality. We've also innovated in enabling us to deliver market-leading turnaround speeds in the services that we offer. So as I mentioned, the market is looking for a shorter time to market, shorter time to delivery of content to consumers. And what we have been able to do is innovate adopt AI, implement other solutions that enable us to offer these premium services and do so in an increasingly competitive way. So what that has led to for ZOO is 2 years positive EBITDA, which obviously, given the disruption that we've seen in our sector amongst our customers, that's a very positive indication of what's to come. And also, we've been able to meet these demanding customer requirements for shorter time to market through the innovations and enhancements in the service offering that we provide. We've been able to strengthen customer relationships and indeed develop new relationships over this period that we expect will deliver stronger revenues in the future. And we have been are able to diversify our revenue sources. So we are seeing much less customer concentration in the mix of revenues that we are generating. I'll just spend a few moments talking about that delivery of faster turnaround speed in the services that we provide. And I just really want to put some color to what that looks like. So in our sector, traditionally, if a customer orders subtyping solutions, so it goes to a vendor like us and ask for this content to be subtitled into 30 or 40 different languages. And typically, they would usually expect that, that will take a week or 2 to lapse time and place the order we can do later, we get the results. In the case of dubbing, dubbing is a much more demanding and complex process. So replacing all of the spoken word in this content by voices who are obviously speaking in the target language. So in a doubling project, if a customer were going to dub some content into one or more different languages, they would expect traditionally that to take a 4- or 5-week time line. It's complex, involved a lot of people. It takes a lot of time. So what we have been able to achieve is subtyping, we've been able to reduce that to a matter of hours. So from 1 to 2 weeks down to 3 hours. And for some customers at the moment, we're working on some initiatives where they're looking for a 1-hour turnaround in interlingual subtitles. So that's taking content that's in 1 language and producing subtitles in 30 or 40 different languages that are accurate, very high quality without errors in a turnaround time that's measured in hours, in some cases, the little 1 hour. In the case of dubbing, that 4- to 5-week time line, we've been able to get that down to 24 hours. So again, that's quite a significant achievement. And to achieve that, we've had to rely on 2 key strategies: one of it which is technological innovation and our continuing drive to implement greater levels of automation in the process that we deliver. And of course, in the recent past, much of that has come through the adoption and deployment of AI type capabilities. as I mentioned, very sensitively used and with human oversight. And the second key strategy relates to an operating model that we referred to as follow the sun. So when these projects come in, given the very short turnaround time that we have -- that we're required to deliver to, as soon as the project arrives, we begin work immediately our work doesn't stop until it's completed. Now obviously, if it comes in -- if it arrives in the U.K. at 5:00 p.m. in a normal situation, that would obviously require us to scramble and find staff were prepared to over time and perhaps what through the night to get that done. What our operating model means we don't have to do that. In our operating model, we've developed these cloud-based platforms that we use to implement all of our -- all of the services that we deliver. And we have staff all around the world, all of whom are working within those same systems they've all been trained in exactly the same way. So they're all observed in the same standard operating procedures in relation to using those platforms to do the work. And what that means is we can have a seamless handover from one team to the next to one project manager to the next as the day progresses. So as a project manager comes to the end of their working day, they can hand over very seamlessly, very efficiently to another project manager who's in a different time zone is perhaps at the beginning of their working day. And in that way, we can offer a 24/7 type service without having to scramble extra resources and ask people to work overtime and unsociable hours and we see that combination of that further some model together with innovation through the use of AI has delivered for us some quite remarkable results in terms of the turnaround times that I've already indicated. And as we mentioned in our full year results statements, we're already seeing about 10% of our sales attributed to fast track very fast turnaround type projects. And that's from a standing start a year ago. So I'll just wrap up then and talk about where we see the drivers for the ZOO business to generate profitable growth and they are predominantly in 3 key areas as I've covered off in this slide. Firstly, these change content strategies that I've spoken of, that our customers have been pursuing over the last few years, we're seeing -- starting to see some stabilization in the output they're producing because obviously, as they shifted their strategies, deciding to stop making certain kinds of content or to make less certain type of content in order that they can invest more in more diverse types of content, those decisions take some time to play out and for results to be delivered. So what we're seeing now is a stabilization of that output from our customers. We're seeing -- we're starting to see new originals emerging that we've seen at a very low level for 3 years or so. And we're seeing new content formats coming through, particularly for live events for near live, at least a sensitive content, including podcasts, so we're doing increasing numbers of podcasts for multiple customers now. So these new content strategies are creating new opportunities for us. A lot of those opportunities require very fast turnaround. ZOO is in quite a remarkable position to capitalize on those opportunities given the innovations and the very efficient operating model that we have available to us. Secondly, these evolving customer requirements certainly around shorter turnaround times, but also the adoption of AI more broadly play to ZOO's strengths. So our technological expertise, which obviously we've had from the very beginning of the business, as I mentioned, as originally a tech company. That technological innovation, that DNA at ZOO means that we can embrace those emerging technologies and adopt them and deploy them in a way that is additive gives benefits both to us and to our customers, but in a way that enables us to kind of manage the risk to understand and manage the risk associated with that technological adoption so that we don't, as a consequence, suffer any degradation in quality of the services that we provide. We've consistently delivered a first-class service. And if you take a look at some of the narrative and the stats recorded mentioned in our annual report, you'll see that despite all of the disruption that's occurred over the last 3 years, and obviously, the major structural changes we've had to make to the ZOO business and to downsize our staffing. Despite all of that, we've continued to deliver standards of quality that put us in the top echelons of the industry. And of course, the -- this combination of efficient operating model and technological innovation, delivering this, enabling us to deliver results much more quickly allows us to attend to this and address this fast turnaround requirement that our customers increasingly have. And then the third area of -- for profitable growth is in the inherent growth that we see from international markets. So again, thinking about that kind of content that I spoke of previously, that has historically been on TV and is now coming to streaming. So lots of that content was produced for local audiences. So I think that all that daytime TV and is shows and all sorts of different things. But now that now that it's being produced increasingly by global streaming services, their attention, of course, is directed to identifying properties that have appeal beyond the compounds of a single country because that's the easiest way for them to amortize the cost of producing content over a bigger audience, make something that people in lots of countries will be interested in watching. But what that means, of course, is the content that perhaps the two will only have remained within a single country because it was quite [indiscernible] in its nature is now being produced with a much wider appeal across different countries, and we think -- we expect that, that will lead to a greater demand for localization services. And for those services to deliver at speed which, of course, place to our business. So I'll just -- finally, before wrapping up, just mention, just to share a couple of themes of Nathalie's statement. So what we have seen over the course of the last few months is more activity from our customers. One of the features of that is that we're seeing more licensing by our customers of content catalogs. So typically, that is one studio doing a deal with a streaming service to take a whole range of TV series or future forms or other content to go out through different streaming channels. When those things happen, there's inevitably a quite a bit of work that needs to be done at the kind that we provide to ensure that, that content is going to work properly on that service potentially to make sure that it's localized and toward the languages that service requires. So we've been seeing in the recent past, quite a lot of that kind of work. And the characteristics of that kind of work are that it tends to draw more on our media services segment, more so than localization. And within the localization segment, it draws predominantly on subtitling rather than dubbing. So what we've seen in the recent past is obviously skewed towards media services and subtitling. But as new original content is starting to come through now, our expectation is that we will be seeing growth from our -- in our dubbing segment as well. And then finally, we referred to new business wins. We mentioned requests for proposals, RFPs that we've responded to and have been successful with. And we see those as being a very positive sign and indication that customers are coming back to the market now. They're seeking suppliers who can deliver to the very highest quality, but who can address these new requirements that have emerged over the course of the last few years, particularly around shorter time to market and that is enabling us to be successful in reengaging with existing customers as well as engaging with new groups within our customers, new departments, new divisions that have a requirement for faster turnaround content that perhaps hasn't existed before. So again, that's a very positive indication that we see in the market coming back and a very positive indication of the future growth potential for the business. So with that, I'll wrap up the presentation, and we can move to Q&A now. So we've got some questions through some of our online attendees, but perhaps I'll ask first, those who are present in the room if anyone has any questions that you'd like to ask for us to address now.

Okay [indiscernible]. I think a lot of things that you all spoke about are in paper in the way that it's going to the near-term [indiscernible], et cetera. But that doesn't necessarily come through at the moment in the financials. And you mentioned that's still a lot of back to in the previous investment that you're willing potentially some of these are our stores this trickle. It's not the contrary. When you project forward, what are you expecting in terms of types of new content actually coming towards ZOO. Is that something that you look at believe is going to be material [indiscernible]?

So let me just repeat the question for those who are listening at home. So your question is around the fact that whilst there is lots of opportunity that we've spoken of, the numbers aren't reflecting that just yet. So what can we expect to come from that? And I'm going to ask Rob to respond to that.

Obviously, which is what [indiscernible]. So that's okay. It's still like [indiscernible] to see that higher. I think you talked about Fast Track, we talk about different types of content. I think they're all really important. And I think what's happening is that because of the technology, because of those opportunities, we're now having -- I think more material conversations with some of the customers seem to be honest, we were waiting to yet. But a lot of the things that we're doing with quite in the market. So it's creating a bit to be USP for us. And that's getting us through the dollars [indiscernible]. So I think, yes, we will see that sort of experimentation and podcasts like content being into [indiscernible]. I think what we'll also see is that improving our existing relationships with customers making more relevant to them, which we don't hope we grow some of the more historical states that are [indiscernible]. So we have to be a little bit cautious at the moment, and I think it's sort of time that [indiscernible]. A lot of this -- the industry is changing quite a lot. So we're looking at all these opportunities, we're having conversations. And we just had to be a little bit cautious about we're getting too excited. But so [indiscernible], we feel we're in a great position in the technology that we've been building from us 10, 15 years becoming a growth as maybe a year or so [indiscernible]. So I think there's a lot of opportunity in is around those areas, it's not just those areas, it's how we use that to build existing customer relationships. And I hope we're seeing so performing expect reduction in a situation to [indiscernible]. And I think if we can not forward and see that growth, [indiscernible] in terms of forecast stability [indiscernible]. So yes, it's [indiscernible].

I'll take a question next from -- that's been submitted online. This comes from Andy. A question for you, Rob. He says, the FY '26 presentation, you spoke of strong first quarter trading. Does the anticipated half 1 outcome reflect continued trend at the level you were seeing in Q1? Or has this softened since the end of July? $23 million doesn't seem materially stronger than the $22.4 million in last year's first half.

Yes. So I think when we were talking about Q1 trading that it was a very strong quarter. There's always contract revenues and the one-off revenue, so Q1 was on strong that Q2, I would say, it be particularly soften. And I think when we're looking at Q1, I was really looking at where we go through in H2. There is a [indiscernible]. So H2 last year was as a bit of local [indiscernible]. Nothing we've made good progress there. So I think we have seen that reflect in as long as [indiscernible], can we build on that more [indiscernible].