Alnylam Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (ALNY) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

May 10, 2023

NASDAQ US Health Care Biotechnology conference_presentation 32 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#1

Okay. Great. Good afternoon, everybody. Thanks for joining us. Welcome to the Bank of America Healthcare Conference. I'm Tazeen Ahmad, I'm one of the senior SMid Biotech analysts here. It's my pleasure to have our next presenting company with me here on stage from Alnylam Pharmaceuticals. We've got Jeff Poulton, who is, of course, CFO; and also Eric Green, who is SVP and Head of Development Programs. So Eric and Jeff, thank you for making the trip out West.

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#2

It's great to be here. Thank you.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#3

So we usually ask everybody to give a 2-minute overview of their company, and then we go straight into Q&A. So I'll let Jeff take the honor of describing Alnylam in 2 minutes or less. .

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#4

Okay. I'll do it. I'll take you up on 2 minutes. So we're the world's leading RNAi company as a whole new class of medicines that we pioneered over the last 20 years. Over the last 5 years, it's gone from being an R&D-only company to now being one that's got fully integrated biotech 5 medicines in the market, 4 of which we're marketing and selling ourselves, a fantastically exciting pipeline that we're looking to diversify into some prevalent diseases and not just rare diseases as well as new tissue types. I think we'll have an opportunity to talk about those things today. We just presented our Q1 results last week, which were very good. Top line results are strong for our latest product launch for AMVUTTRA. And again, I think we'll have an opportunity to talk about that and lots of exciting things to come over the course of the year.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#5

Yes, there's a lot going on, as always, at Alnylam. So maybe we can talk about as our first topic, let's talk about AMVUTTRA. So maybe, Eric, I'll direct the question to you, and you can always step in, Jeff. How are you thinking about the early metrics of the launch? It looks like there is an audience that's building up fast for AMVUTTRA. How does that dynamic play up against the market that ONPATTRO has been building? And where do you kind of see the two drugs going over the next several quarters. .

Eric Green

executive
#6

Sure. I'll be happy to take a first start, and then Jeff can always add in. Obviously, ONPATTRO was approved back in 2018 was the first-ever siRNA treatment, specifically for hereditary ATTR amyloidosis in those patients with polyneuropathy. The product has done very well, very steady, continuous growth into over 2,000 patients treated worldwide by the early part of last year. AMVUTTRA, that was our follow-on product utilizing our next-generation delivery technology, the GalNAc technology, which allows for a quarterly subcutaneous dosing administration. The two pivotal studies, APOLLO for ONPATTRO patisiran and HELIOS-B showed nearly overlapping efficacy profile. So what you really see is a profile in AMVUTTRA that has nice safety great efficacy and a more convenient dosing profile. So in -- since approval in June of last year in the U.S. and more global approvals in the later part of last year, we're seeing a lot of very natural and organic switches from ONPATTRO over to AMVUTTRA. And maybe, Jeff, do you want to talk about some of the numbers from this last quarter to that point.

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#7

Yes. So in markets where both products are available and it's been available, AMVUTTRA longest in the U.S., so it's been 3 quarters now. I would say new patients that have been initiating therapy since we launched AMVUTTRA, almost all of them are starting on AMVUTTRA and then the switch from ONPATTRO, I'd say after 3 quarters in the U.S., 2/3 of the patients or thereabouts that were on ONPATTRO when we launched AMVUTTRA have now switched or are in the process of switching. I think we found the same thing in Japan, where we launched in Q4, end of last year. It's actually happening even more rapidly there in terms of the switch. So about 80% of the business is switching which is a really good thing. I think from our perspective in terms of how the product is -- the patients are viewing the product. Obviously, from a competitive standpoint, as you move forward, it's nice to have the patients on the quarter subcu. I think the thing that we're trying to educate the market on is when you think about the performance of the TTR business, you really need to think about it on a franchise basis now. And really need to look at the total revenue across those 2 products compared to prior periods. And we don't gain revenue from switches because the value of the patients is the same. So what we're really interested in is the growth of the overall pie. And AMVUTTRA, without question, is growing, increasing the growth of the business. If you look at the U.S., so again, 3 quarters on the market, each of those quarters on a year-over-year basis, the U.S. business has grown more than 70%. So it wasn't an initial bolus where we saw it in the first quarter and then it dropped off. It's sort of been sustained. And ONPATTRO was probably growing in the mid-30s on a year-over-year basis before AMVUTTRA. So we're excited about that. There's a number of reasons why we think it's sort of expanding the opportunity, but a very good start. .

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#8

Do you think both will coexist going forward? And who would be the patient population for..

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#9

I think based on what I just described, I think what my anticipation is that over time, where both products are available for PN, it's going to be an AMVUTTRA market, right? Yes, there will be some that may stay on ONPATTRO, but we're not even actively working to get the patients to switch, right? That's happening naturally. So again, in every 3-week IV compared to once a quarter subcu and Eric talked about the efficacy and safety profile. In my mind, that's an easy choice, and we're seeing patients make that choice. .

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#10

What is the patient population that's initially getting on this? And how do you think about moving into presumably, you have room to move into earlier lines?

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#11

Yes. I mean I think what we're seeing in terms of why the U.S. is picking up growth. It's -- I think we're seeing signs of younger patients, maybe less severe patients, right, where the burden of treatment for an IV was probably they were holding off. We're seeing switching although that's more of a -- from other therapies, not ONPATTRO. That's more of an issue outside the U.S. where tafamidis is on the market in the hereditary PN part of the market. There's not a lot of patients in the U.S. on the Ionis first drug, TEGSEDI, right? There's a little bit of that switching, but there's not much there. But the other thing that we're seeing is just an expansion of the prescriber base. There's more physicians that are willing to prescribe the products. So we've seen a 30% increase or thereabouts in 9 months. And so more of the community-based physicians that we're seeing that are willing to prescribe it. So that's really what's driving the expansion of the opportunity, we think.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#12

Okay. This is jumping ahead a couple of steps need to happen first. But as you look to AMVUTTRA and its potential second indication for cardiomyopathy, how do you think about the pickup that you're seeing for it now and what that might mean to make it easier later for that indication? .

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#13

Yes. I mean, I think maybe thinking about the cardiomyopathy progression, right, that we're hoping to see is that patisiran we get approved first, and we would be launching ONPATTRO in the cardiomyopathy indication later this fall, right, kind of October 8, PDUFA. And given the label, the expectation from a commercial perspective is that there would probably be 2 segments that would be driving demand for uptake for ONPATTRO in the cardiomyopathy population. One is patients that are not adequately responding to the existing therapy in the market and then the second are patients that can't access it for a variety of sort of out-of-pocket reasons. And so we think that will drive the initial uptake. I think we'll get some good experience with that. But then AMVUTTRA, HELIOS-B early next year. So sort of fast forward to the end of '24, early '25 hopefully, we'd be launching there with a very different label, right? So an outcome label, which, from a competitive standpoint, is really critical. And then given the convenience profile that we talked about, that's the drug that we think in our portfolio has sort of that potential best-in-class kind of profile that would really long term potentially drive a lot of revenue growth for the company. And that's sort of how we think about it.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#14

Okay. So speaking of patisiran in cardiomyopathy for the APOLLO-B study, I believe you do have -- you've announced that you're going to have 18-month data presented at ESC later this month. Can you just kind of set expectations on what that data is and what it means?

Eric Green

executive
#15

Yes. See, the original APOLLO-B study or VA APOLLO-B study had a 12-month double-blind portion. So patients were randomized to either placebo or to patisiran. At the end of that double-blind portion, patients were offered the ability to continue with open-label patisiran treatment. So patients on patisiran continued. So you would expect to see how those patients do with another additional 6 months of treatment on patisiran. . And importantly, the placebo patients have the opportunity now to initiate treatment with patisiran. So ideally, you would see and we saw this at least in a polyneuropathy side in the original APOLLO study, placebo and mNIS of the neuropathy impairment score showed very marked progression over the 18 months of the original APOLLO as those patients on placebo switched over to patisiran kind of halted that progression. . So that may be a very extreme view of what you may see, but that idea of looking at the trends of how those patients did for the first 12 months and then how do they do with this additional 6 months. And hopefully, you would see something a little bit different in the placebo patients than they had previously been doing. .

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#16

Okay. And you've also chosen to submit that data to FDA. Did they ask for it?

Eric Green

executive
#17

We've only stated that we have submitted the data, and we don't often get into the details of our back and forth with the agencies.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#18

I guess what additional benefit do you think that could provide on a label by having 18 versus 12 months?

Eric Green

executive
#19

Unclear if it would have much of an impact on the label. Obviously, you lose your comparison to placebo. But it does give us longer safety follow-up. It does give us an idea of how the efficacy that was shown in a pretty short study for heart failure, 12 months is a very short study. This gives the FDA and others a chance to see how those results continue to progress or not.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#20

So as you think about preparing to hopefully launch in this indication for patisiran, what feedback have you gotten from your physician checks on what makes this an attractive option for them?

Eric Green

executive
#21

Yes. Maybe Jeff?

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#22

Feedback we've gotten is very good. I mean I think I would start with the fact that there's still unmet need in this disease, and we hear that from physicians. So the opportunity to have something else, right, that they could use to treat these patients. I think they find -- they're hopeful for that. I think probably a couple of things that we hear about the data. One is that sort of stability, right, in the 6-minute walk, I mean, the climb that we saw in the drug arm was very close to what you would see in normal healthy adults. And so that's sort of encouraging. I think the KCCQ, you saw again stabilization. So that concept of stabilizing in a disease where it's sort of constant progression I think, is encouraging. And then the consistency of the results across the study. So in addition to 6-minute walk and KCCQ, some of the BNP, troponin, the biomarkers also trended positively. The scanning data, which was really interesting, right? And then the safety data, particularly the cardiac safety data that trended favorably in the direction of the drug arm, which is really almost a sort of another efficacy measure. All of that, again, the consistency of it across the measures of the study in a 12-month study with 1/4 of the patients on background tap. I think, it is encouraging to the physicians. That's what we've heard. .

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#23

Would you need to make any tweaks to your sales force in order to market this indication?

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#24

It's a competitive space. So we're not going to give specifics. I mean, I think over time, given the much larger market opportunities, there's going to need to be incremental investment here to sort of fully cover the space and maximize the opportunity. But we're not prepared to get into specifics of exactly what that means yet. .

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#25

Okay. So maybe let's move on to some questions on vutri, on vutrisiran. So we just talked about APOLLO-B, but probably most anticipated next study for Alnylam arguably is HELIOS-B. You've guided to data in early 2024, which by Alnylam's calendar is obviously through June 30.

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#26

Q1 or Q2.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#27

Got it. So maybe just as a reminder, what should we be expecting to see that top line data readout and then we can go into some more details.

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#28

Eric will take that one.

Eric Green

executive
#29

Obviously, we have quite a precedent, fortunately, of reading out top line results from our pivotal study. So we would expect something similar p-values on the primary and secondary endpoints and some summary of safety. But we, as our practices, hold back a lot of the detailed data until we have a peer-reviewed medical conference.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#30

So just remind us what the differences are between APOLLO-B and HELIOS-B in the choice of primary and secondary endpoints because that's important as well. It's different molecules, but also different endpoints. .

Eric Green

executive
#31

Different molecules, but we had the fortune of having these 2 different molecules in our own portfolio. So when we were making decisions about how do we enter into this cardiomyopathy market, we had a product at the time, shortly after ONPATTRO was first approved with a known safety profile. And remember, vutrisiran at that time only had Phase I data in a relatively small number of healthy volunteers. So we had a kind of a two-pronged strategy. Fast to market with a known product, patisiran. That's what led to APOLLO-B with a short 12-month study with a 6-minute walk functional end point. And then with high hopes for the profile that we would see with vutrisiran, which has since been borne out, we went with -- we thought that could be ultimately the market leader, a best-in-class product. That's where we invested larger study. It's a 30-month to 36-month outcomes-based study. So similarities, differences, similar patient populations are intended to be enrolled in both APOLLO-B and HELIOS-B, some slight differences. But the key thing is APOLLO-B was short and very aggressive. HELIOS-B is about twice as big, almost 3x as long with a very critical outcomes, composite outcomes measure, which we think will be important for competitive nature in the market. .

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#32

Yes. So let's maybe talk a little bit more about that competitive dynamic because it appears that a lot of folks think that ATTR-CM is a valuable area to be in not just Alnylam. So if we talk about the competitive landscape, some of the other companies have made decisions to upsize their studies, delaying the readout of those studies in order to increase the chances of having presumably a statistically significant results on the primary outcome of mortality benefit. You guys have been pretty steadfast the entire time that you feel that your study size is rightsized and that the 3x longer length of the study relative to what you looked at for APOLLO-B is sufficient. So Maybe, Eric, can you give us a little bit more color on why you are confident on that, just given the fact that other companies who -- it's hard to make an apples-to-apples comparison, obviously, but other companies have chosen to mitigate some of the risks that they might see primarily because patients are being diagnosed earlier now perhaps than they were before. .

Eric Green

executive
#33

Which is the earlier diagnosis is always a great thing for patients, right? With a progressive disease like this, you want to find these patients early and hopefully intervene. We are making decisions on the design for HELIOS-B back in the day when attracted read out. We knew what the patients looked like that they had enrolled and we knew what the subgroups looked like. So that was a knowledge all companies, frankly, had at that time to make decisions. We intentionally defined inclusion/exclusion criteria to essentially exclude the worst of the worst patients. So those kind of NYHA 3 patients that we're unable to walk very far and we're likely to be very challenging to help in any way. So we intentionally went for a slightly milder patient population, but still required to have symptomatic heart failure. So I think, yes, ideally, the broader field is finding and diagnosing patients earlier, but they still had to be symptomatic heart failure patients to enroll in our studies. We accounted for -- as spokes on HELIOS-B up to 50% of patients could come into the study already on tafamidis. And therefore, we took that into account as we did the powering for the size of the study to be able to show the type of difference in the outcome composite endpoint we would hope. We operationalize that and actually came in under that percentage. Another thing we did is, track was at 30 months, they did their primary endpoint. We are going to evaluate once the last patient enrolled hits 30 months. But all patients prior to that can stay on the double blind up to 36 months. And because it's a composite endpoint that's looking at events, we have those additional 6 months for a majority of patients to be able to gather additional events and therefore, increase the power. I think the third thing I'll note is we actually overenrolled the study and it enrolled much quicker than we expected, and that's why the time between APOLLO-B and HELIOS-B is frankly a lot closer than we were expecting. So we actually get a little bit of power there by that roughly 10% increase. Some of the competitors we know has increased and changed their studies on a number of times based on the public statements I've read about that, initially, they had a much shorter follow-up, so they weren't going out to 30 months. So they first extended that study to get closer to what we are looking for. They've also, I think, didn't have the operational controls that minimize tafamidis at baseline. I've heard possibly that was very close to 100% at 1 point. So they're increasing the size of the study is really to try to dilute out that confounding effect. So I think we feel confident that we took into account all the information we knew at the time. We executed the study very well. We know the patients we're intending to enroll. And that's why we've stuck with the design as it is.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#34

Anything to add, Jeff.

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#35

No. I think you've covered it real covered it very well.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#36

In terms of safety, presumably, there are regularly scheduled safety check of the study..

Eric Green

executive
#37

There's an independent data monitoring committee for that.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#38

So there is a -- and how often do they take those blinded looks at safety, is it blinded? I am assuming.

Eric Green

executive
#39

I think for the DMC, it can't be unblinded if they request that. I think those are generally quarterly meeting.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#40

Quarterly. Okay. So as we approach the readout of the study, I think people are thinking about how to figure out what the -- what good data would look like. So is it simply that you have a statistical -- statistically significant benefit on mortality or do some of the secondary endpoints that you're going to be looking at also matter. Maybe you could share what doctor feedback you have on that.

Eric Green

executive
#41

Obviously, a primary endpoint of success and statistically significant would be something that would be necessary. We've been fortunate in all of our other studies that have a lot of consistency, and Jeff mentioned this in the APOLLO-B with other secondary and even exploratory endpoints. So, the more consistency you see across different measures of this disease, I think that would be a very welcome thing by the outside.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#42

And what about the group of people? You said you had an upper limit of up to 50% of people could be on background TAF. Would there be analysis that could be done on those patients who are on background TAF to kind of provide a better sense of what the profile of the drug would be. .

Eric Green

executive
#43

We do stratify based on if you came in on tafamidis or not. So we'll have the ability to look at those subgroups, but we're not powered for that subgroup. nSo, it will be trends we can look at, but we wouldn't necessarily be able to make definitive statistically powered statements. .

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#44

Yes. I think, again, one of those other companies that's been making lots of changes has made that one of their change that they want to be powered enough to be able to show subgroup analysis on these TAF patients. As you think about the market, the fact that tafamidis has had a good launch, they've increased awareness. They've increased diagnosis. Is it going to be important to have a true understanding of what role TAF plays in the population that you want to be on vutrisiran?

Eric Green

executive
#45

Of course, I think for physicians that make a choice on treatment options. One is great to have options. Right now there's only in the U.S. and then many markets, there's only one approved product and only one modality. So hopefully, by providing additional options, they can start to make those trade-offs .

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#46

So I guess we're trying to triangulate what would be the best addressable patient population based on the studies designed.

Eric Green

executive
#47

Based on the study design, well, we're comparing in HELIOS-B vutrisiran versus placebo, right? So we'll have lots of different ways to look by age cuts, by tests. We'll be able to provide those data and then it becomes up to regulators to decide how they want to wave it. And physicians, frankly, decide how they want to use it. I don't know how is to think about that, Jeff?

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#48

Yes, I'm not sure. I think that's the answer. .

Eric Green

executive
#49

And it's real going to be, I guess, until we see the data. Right.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#50

So we get a lot of questions on what happens when TAF goes generic. How does that impact the ability of a new branded to gain market share?

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#51

I mean part of that will be easier to answer when we have the data, I think, right? So we'd be sort of speculating at this point. But we know that from a timing perspective, we'd be launching sort of early '25 and they're talking about end of '28 in the U.S. And so we're going to have a period of time, obviously, where we'll be on the market where it's a branded product, but it's difficult to answer the question in advance to having the data.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#52

Maybe this is a question better for Tolga, but how do you think about what kind of -- to the previous question that we talked about, about needing to make changes to the sales force, increasing the size of the sales force. Would you start to make such increases assuming patisiran got approved with the assumption that at some point, you would need those people for vutri.

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#53

Yes. I mean, I'm not -- again, we're going to be a little bit light on details of what the specific plan is right now. But again, given this fact that this opportunity is probably 10x the size of the polyneuropathy opportunity I expect that we'll increase the size of the sales force. Not going to get into the specifics of how much of that for Pati versus how much for vutri, but over time, there will be an expansion, yes.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#54

And then leading into that, what should we expect trend-wise generally for OpEx over the next few years? .

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#55

I think on the SG&A side, this will be the driver of growth over the next several years as the incremental investment to support the launch of cardiomyopathy. I think on the corporate side, we're trying to sort of keep things pretty tight. But that will be the driver on the SG&A side. I think on the R&D side, the drivers of growth will be the progression of the pipeline. Obviously, there's a hypertension program ongoing as that continues to progress in the larger studies that will drive incremental OpEx. Those are probably the two biggest things, the cardiomyopathy investment commercially and the progression of the prevalent -- the lead prevalent disease program on the R&D side. .

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#56

Okay. So you provided a good segue. Let's talk about hypertension. So you do have data coming second half of this year for both KARDIA-I and KARDIA-II. I guess it should be obvious, but maybe just explain to us what the difference between KARDIA-I and KARDIA-II is?

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#57

Go ahead, Eric. .

Eric Green

executive
#58

KARDIA-I, so the 2 Phase II studies, zilebesiran, our siRNA therapeutic targeting angiotensinogen. KARDIA-I is a monotherapy study. So patients have to wash out, have any prior antihypertensives then randomized across 1 of 4 different regimens in dose levels for zilebesiran, essentially a dose exploration study versus placebo. We'll be looking at systolic blood pressure changes at month 3 and how that compares to placebo. KARDIA-II is a concomitant study. So we run the patients into 1 of 3 separate standard of care classes and our calcium channel blocker and a diuretic. If those patients at the end of 1 month on that protocol-defined dose and product are still uncontrolled, then we randomized to zilebesiran or to placebo. So the first study, KARDIA-I, we expect to read out in the middle part of this year, again, Q1 -- Q2, Q3. That will tell us really what type of dose and regimen we may want to take forward. We're exploring quarterly dosing in 1 arm and then every 6-month dosing with 3 different doses. And then KARDIA-II, we expect at around the year-end. That will really tell us a combination both efficacy, but probably most importantly, combinability with safety, especially with the arm.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#59

Okay. So we did a few rounds of doc checks on these studies that are upcoming. It seems that the main focus will be on KARDIA-II because of the way people expect to be using this drug in a real-world setting. I believe the study design allows you to be on one of the other classes of drug, not necessarily more than one, is that right?

Eric Green

executive
#60

Exactly. So I have to wash out of any other agents then go on to 1 of the 3 arms with protocol-defined doses.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#61

So how does that requirement define what the real world treatment is for treatment-resistant hypertension patients? Because I think my understanding is that they can be on multiple drugs at the same time.

Eric Green

executive
#62

Exactly. And that's why we still await the Phase III data, obviously, to fully define what our go-forward pivotal development and, therefore, patient population. But we've talked a lot in the past about how we would target patients with high cardiovascular risk with not necessarily patients that are resistant hypertension, which is often 3, if not 4 agents and then potentially zilebesiran becomes a fifth. So we're trying to get them a little bit earlier but maybe have already had a stroke or have multiple risk factors that make them more likely to have a cardiovascular event. .

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#63

Yes. So assuming that these studies are positive, and we'll talk about what a positive study would mean, would a Phase III study design allow for patients presumably to be on multiple background therapies?

Eric Green

executive
#64

Yes, that's what we would expect.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#65

Yes. Okay. So now let's talk about what to expect. What do you think is the most important thing about the monotherapy study that we should all take away?

Eric Green

executive
#66

So the monotherapy study is, in some ways, a much, much, much larger Phase I data set. So we've already had the single ascending dose in Phase I. We showed very nice angiotensinogen knockdown at dose levels that was greater than 90% for out to 6 months after a single dose. And we saw a very nice blood pressure reduction up to 20 millimeters of systolic blood pressure with that type of knockdown in a relatively small number of patients, so 8-ish patients per cohort. . This study now will have close to 75 patients per dose arm that allows to give a lot more pharmacodynamic data to help us model what type of durability and therefore, angiotensinogen knockdown and then resulting in blood pressure but in a monotherapy mild to moderate hypertensive patient population. So it should look, hopefully, a lot like what we saw in the Phase I with more patients ideally. .

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#67

Now on safety because you're targeting angiotensinogen and we'll find out how much knockdown you're getting, right, as part of that analysis. How much do you think you need to knock down? Do you need to knock it all down in order to get to the target? .

Eric Green

executive
#68

Not completely ablated, but we do see in the Phase I a log linear relationship between angiotensinogen knockdown and blood pressure. So we think we need to be over 90% knocked down to start to see the clinically meaningful and significant blood pressure reduction we saw in Phase I. That's what we'll be targeting. .

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#69

And then to account for what would happen if patients become hypotensive, what's your risk mitigation on that?

Eric Green

executive
#70

So to date, we haven't seen any symptomatic hypotensive events that are concerned. Importantly, in Phase I, we actually enrolled patients that had elevated blood pressure can bring in normal tense patients. In the monotherapy study, if, for some reason, there was a hypotensive event there are other standard of care ways of managing that, salinpressers, et cetera. As we think about maybe Phase III or even more optimistically in the commercial world, as we talked a minute ago, there may be in multiple agents, many of which may be daily orals, simply stopping the daily orals, will save you some amelioration of the blood pressure effect. .

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#71

Okay. Before we run out of time, I did also want to ask how you're thinking about what the best population for this drug could be because hypertension is not a rare disease, right? And even if you narrow it down to treatment resistant, that's still a large portion of the population. People often bring up the comp of the initial PCSK9 launches and how they weren't properly defined and probably not properly priced. How are you thinking about really where this might be ideally serving a population?

Eric Green

executive
#72

Probably just a bit too early to think about that. As I mentioned, the patients with high cardiovascular risk with hypertension is probably what we think would be the right population. So not going for fifth line, that was true resistant hypertension patients, probably a bit earlier than that, but we haven't fully defined that yet. .

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#73

Do you have a sense of what proportion of the hypertension population is on more than one background drug right now?

Eric Green

executive
#74

Not any specific numbers, but it's intended to be quite high numbers, right? Most physicians believe multiple polypharmacy is important in this disease. And despite hundreds of millions of patients having hypertension, run the availability of generally cheap generics, there's still 70% of patients, all these classes and multiple medicines available. It's just still a horrible program. We think we have a unique and very innovative profile that could address some of those aspects.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#75

Okay. In a minute or less. Can you talk about APP and the recent data that you presented. I think some folks might have been confused about what was supposed to be shown versus what was shown and what that means, what the next steps are?

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#76

Well, I'll start, but then I'll let Eric provide more detail on it. We reported top line results out a couple of weeks ago and we provided some additional detail on our earnings call. But I think from a the efficacy data that we shared in terms of the knockdown that we achieved at lower doses, frankly, than we anticipated was remarkably strong. So I think we're really encouraged by the potential here. Right? Of what we could do with this going forward. And in the clinical trial, the data that we reported around safety was also very good. There were a lot of questions about chronic tox study and sort of the second part of the Phase I study that hasn't started yet being on a clinical hold in the U.S. that created a lot of questions. But the -- but the data in terms of the clinical data that we had in terms of both knockdown and safety, I think we were very, very excited about. But Eric, anything else you want to add there? .

Eric Green

executive
#77

I think it's exactly right. Phase I, looking at safety tolerability first, but the CSF biomarkers responded better than we expected at much lower doses and hopefully opens up the whole new tissue for us, right? And then we've already talked about a couple of other programs we have with our partners, Regeneron, that we now feel incrementally more confident that those will be able to move forward. .

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#78

Do you need to resolve whatever the issue is on the clinical hold before, let's say, moving full forward with CAA and under other indications?

Eric Green

executive
#79

In the U.S. potentially. Yes, but not necessarily ex U.S.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#80

And do you expect to provide an update on that this year, either on next steps with that?

Eric Green

executive
#81

Potentially, right? We've said already that we expect the as part of multivan Canada still under review in our other 2 countries, U.K. and Netherlands. And then we said eventually would think about a Phase II in CIA, but we haven't provided timing on that.

Tazeen Ahmad

analyst
#82

Okay. Perfect. I think with that, we'll stop for today. Thanks, guys, for making the trip over again, and thanks, everybody, for joining our session. Really appreciate it.

Eric Green

executive
#83

Appreciate it.

Jeffrey Poulton

executive
#84

Thank you.

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