Asmallworld AG (ASWN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the conference call regarding the ASMALLWORLD 2022 full year results. [Operator Instructions] Let me now turn the floor over to Jan Luescher.

Thank you very much for the introduction. I would also like to welcome everyone to this earnings call for ASMALLWORLD's 2022 full year results. My name is Jan Luescher. I'm the Chief Executive Officer, and I will lead you through today's call. As always in these calls, I will touch on the operational and financial highlights for the year. And I will also try to provide additional information to put those results into the broader context so you can better understand the headline numbers. And in the end, as mentioned, we will do a quick Q&As session for any outstanding questions. The presentation that I'm using to illustrate our performance is available for download on our corporate website. If you have not downloaded it yet, you should do so now. It's probably easier to follow my explanations with the presentation in front of you, so navigate to asmallworldag.com. And there, to the investors section and under Investor Documents, you will find the presentation called 2022 Full Year Results Presentation, which is the document I will use for this call. Great, so let's start. As always, on Page #2, a quick recap of who we are and what our mission is as ASMALLWORLD. We are the world's leading travel and lifestyle community; and we inspire our members to travel better, experience more and make new connections. We have a group of businesses and mainly 7 businesses that make up the smaller travel and lifestyle ecosystem. At the center of ASMALLWORLD is our social network which has the goal to attract an affluent consumer segment with a high willingness to spend on travel and experiences. And this audience then creates demand for our other businesses ranging from ASMALLWORLD events to -- sorry, excuse me.

Just for a moment, please. We will continue in a moment. Just one moment, please. And back to Mr. Luescher.

My apologies. Somebody called and created some confusion on my cell phone. My bad, apologies. So yes. The ASMALLWORLD social network is creating demand for our other businesses, whether that's ASMALLWORLD events; The World's Finest Clubs; or also the ASMALLWORLD Collection, our hotel booking engine. And so that's really the way the social network works together with our other businesses. Now let's actually get into the headline numbers, the financials, from Page #5. In short, it was another record year for ASMALLWORLD. We grew our sales by 18%, and they stood at CHF 18.5 million for the year. And we've also increased our EBITDA to a new record of CHF 2.5 million, which is an increase by 3%. Net income was slightly down by 8%. And earnings per share came in at CHF 0.13 per share. The cash position at the end of the year was CHF 4 million. And there's a few additional things I want to mention here with -- to put the number in context. The lower EBITDA growth, compared to the revenue growth, was due to a mix of factors, most importantly that we didn't receive any government support anymore which helped us with salary costs in 2021 as part of the help package that the Swiss government has put out, where we benefited. And basically that reduced our costs and, with that, increased our profitability. So that has gone away. Also we have expanded our team again this year, so there's a few more team members. We had to do a few salary increases here and there that we were holding back. And we also had a write-off of CHF 250,000 for a deal that we still have in our books with a company called PMG. It was an IP rights deal where they were allowed to use the ASMALLWORLD name for a magazine. This was done before corona, and then with corona, the magazine was put on hold. And now during the last year, it became clear that this deal will not happen. Magazine will not happen. And we actually had to write off that asset, which impacted our results negatively for this CHF 250,000. So that's also something that impacted the bottom line. And the -- for that net result, while the net result is lower, there were 2 factors here that contributed. One, we had higher interest costs due to higher -- a larger amount of loans that we currently have on our books, mainly for the financing of the GHA transaction. And secondly, we -- in the previous year, we had positive currency effects on our liabilities which were in euros, which sort of became less and less. And so that was the Swiss franc appreciated and that sort of impacted the net result positively in 2021, and this effect was no longer present in 2022. So this is just to explain why EBITDA and the net result didn't grow exactly the same amount as the top line, but to summarize: I believe we can still be very proud of these results. We are consistently growing the business in a profitable fashion while we are also expanding the long-term revenue capacity of the business by expanding into new products and services which will keep the business growing in the coming years. On -- moving on to Page #6, where you can see our headline KPIs compared to the previous years. On the previous slide, I have already mentioned the sales growth of 18% to CHF 18.5 million. You see that in context. We had that dip in 2020 for the corona year and caught up in 2021 and then continued that growth. Our member base grew by 4% to 66,000 members across our businesses. And the EBITDA, as mentioned, grew by 3% from CHF 2.4 million to CHF 2.5 million, sort of basically keeping that jump that we had from 2020 to 2021. Even without sort of the government subsidies and so on, it was holding up quite well there. Then on Page #5 (sic) [ #7 ], a few words about the operational highlights for the year. I believe what's important to mention here is that -- which is not directly in the numbers -- you can't directly read it from the financial statements. Is that, with the last earnout payment for the First Class & More acquisition that we have made this year, we have actually now become fully self-funding as a business. So these were CHF 3.5 million that we had to pay and -- for the last earnout payment. And now we actually have enough money to meet our obligations and fund our growth. I think that's a very important milestone for the management and for the company, as it just gives us a bit more wiggle room to fund strategic projects. And kind of, well, I always will compare it to moving from a defense game, where it was the ultimate goal was to preserve cash that we can basically keep the business going, to a situation where we have a bit of money to spend on initiatives if they offer the right return. Related to that, we also have a strong cash position with CHF 4 million in the bank. That was per end of last year; and an operating cash flow of CHF 2.4 million for the year, which means that, at least if we keep everything else steady, we could pay back all the debts that we currently have within the next 3 years out of our cash and out of our cash flow. So it's also, yes, important to put that in context. And what is also very important is that we continue to build our long-term revenue potential by expanding our products and services. We have 3 important initiatives here: the Collection, the partnership with Emirates and the acquisition of a 10% stake in Global Hotel Alliance. And I will actually go into more detail on these points in the previous slide -- sorry, on the next slide. So Page #8 gives you an overview of exactly those 3 topics, which are key initiatives to expand our revenue potential. With the ASMALLWORLD Collection, this business that we started in 2020, the goal is to monetize our travel-savvy members through hotel bookings. Emirates, we actually added as a partnership with Emirates Skywards Miles for our premium memberships, which is the Prestige and the Signature memberships, making these memberships more attractive and bringing it to another audience. And the acquisition of the 10% stake in Global Hotel Alliance, which will result in growth for the community, but it also opens up new revenue streams for us. And so these are the 3 big topics that we're working on right now. And I'm just going to expand on those topics a little bit to give you a bit more of an overview of what we're doing there. So starting with the Collection and Page 9. The Collection is a hotel booking platform focused exclusively on luxury hotels. If you've been into these calls before, you've heard me talk about it. It's a very streamlined booking experience and we only focus on luxury hotels. On Page #10, we can also see what we mean with streamlined user experience in terms of the user rates. We have the ASMALLWORLD VIP Rate and the lowest rate as the 2 rates that we offer. And we only offer 2, so we don't offer up to like 10 rates that some of the competitors do. We're going to keep it simple. On the lowest rate, it's just the lowest price that is available to us. And the ASMALLWORLD VIP Rate is the rate that comes with a lot of VIP benefits; and really sort of a value-for-money rate that comes with free room upgrades and hotel credit of $100, complimentary breakfast for two, early check-in, late check-out, complimentary WiFi. And so these things come free on top of what the user will pay on other sites. And it's also why 99% of our bookings are actually with the ASMALLWORLD VIP Rate. This is really our selling point. And the Collection has very strong partners. So Page #11, yes. We are -- Virtuoso travel agency. We're part of multiple preferred travel agency programs. We've just recently announced the partnership with IHG; and when I say partnership, meaning we get access to their hotel portfolio because we are a preferred travel agency for them, so meaning we can increase the inventory. And Jumeirah is actually currently being implemented, which is the latest one. And then obviously we have Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton Impresario and Shangri-La as the existing partners. And that actually leads to what you can see on Page #12, a significant increase in our hotel inventory. So we started in 2020 with 583 hotels at launch. And today, we actually have 1,504 hotels. Actually, by now probably, after 2 days after we put these slides together, number is already bigger again or has increased again. So the inventory went up by 158% since we launched the Collection. That means we added more than 900 or we added 921 hotels. And we're covering today's 466 destinations, so almost 3x what we covered in the beginning, meaning we have actually more inventory to sell and -- but of high-class hotels relevant to our customer group. And this is also what leads to more sales in -- for the collections, which you can actually see on Page 13. So the booking volume actually went up quite significantly from 2021 to 2022. Of course, in general, bookings went up as travel resumed and customers started to travel again, but I guess we're coming from 0, so every booking for us is a new booking. It's an incremental booking. And where we got to in the comparison to 2021 was that we actually had 2.5x the booking value in terms of stays, meaning money spent at the hotel. So it's quite a strong growth sort of 150%. And what is also encouraging is the stickiness of customer is very good, because 41% of our customers have at least booked a second time with us already, not a third or a fourth time, meaning they like booking with us and they come back for more. So we can -- we hope we can actually continue to grow the contribution from the Collection. It's still small compared to some of our other products, but it -- with these growth rates and sort of like nurturing this, we believe that this can become an important contributor to our bottom line. The second initiative, starting Page 14, is the partnership with Emirates. Emirates is, of course, one of the most recognizable international carriers, based in Dubai. So we signed a partnership with them in July last year, and with that, they've become the third option or third miles package option for our Prestige and Signature memberships that come with 250,000 or 500,000 air miles. So this means, as a user, you can now choose [ to want ] the Prestige membership with Miles & More miles, which is the Lufthansa Group. Like it would also include SWISS and Austrian and so on. Do I want it with Emirates, or do I want it with Etihad? And obviously you choose based on the program that you're flying with and the miles that you need, but this opens up a new market for us, like users that -- or customers that have -- previously have not been interested in other products like the Miles & More because they -- maybe they're based in Dubai or in other places. Now we can access the Middle Eastern market or like other global travelers and sell them the membership with Emirates miles. Sales have started in September, so we had 3 months last year that Emirates contributed. And we can see the impact right away, so it started really well. And we will see how it contributes in 2023. So yes. So Page 15. I guess I spoke about that already. So you can see the 3 miles options for the Prestige and Signature memberships. You can choose which one. And the rest of the benefits actually stays the same for the memberships, pricing of about EUR 5,500 or EUR 10,000 for those memberships. And as I said, we expect this to contribute more in 2023, although I also have to mention that the program got a lot less attractive. Since we've actually signed, Emirates has made redemptions harder. You need more miles. You need to -- the availability has gone down, so it's unfortunately not as attractive as when we started the discussion with them, but for the right customers it's still attractive enough, so we hope it will continue to contribute to our results. Page 16 is the third initiative that I want to highlight. So this is the partnership with GHA. And sort of to recap: We announced in December '21 that we would buy a 10% stake in the company. And that payment has -- was completed in May last year with a $3.5 million cash payment and a 3% stake in ASMALLWORLD, so we became a shareholder in them and they became a shareholder in us, highlighting the strategic collaboration thought that is behind it and yes. So basically it's up and running, how we work together, but maybe on Page 17, quickly, who is GHA? For those not 100% familiar with the company: GHA is the world's largest alliance of independent hotel brands. It operates the world's largest loyalty platform of independent hotel brands, called GHA DISCOVERY, the logo on the bottom right of the page. And other owners, next to us, include Kempinski, Minor Hotels, Corinthia hotels, the Pan Pacific group and Oracle as a tech company. And they have 40 hotel brands that are part of it; over 800 hotels in over 100 countries; and 23 million customers, sort of the latest number, so quite a big program. It's among the biggest loyalty programs in the world. And it competes with bigger programs like Marriott Bonvoy and the World of Hyatt and so on. And the partnership, for us, or the reason, the rationale, why we basically invested into this company is on Page 18. It comes from 4 areas. And first of all, we actually make ASMALLWORLD membership available to GHA customers, so basically GHA customers receive a complimentary membership for ASMALLWORLD, but only the elite members or the higher-status levels it's a benefit a member -- a status benefit part, sorry, is what I wanted to say. And that generates an influx of members into ASMALLWORLD or with a -- or in travel-savvy and [ interesting ] customers. Also we can use the GHA mailing lists and distribution platform to market ASMALLWORLD products. They have more than 23 million customers. So we can periodically access or find a spot in the marketing efforts that they have. Third is the acquisition of independent hotels, so this is what we're currently working on as the -- probably the biggest project coming out of this partnership. So in short, ASMALLWORLD is becoming a brand in the GHA brand portfolio of those 40 brands that I mentioned before. And it will be a soft brand that allows independent hotels to join the GHA DISCOVERY loyalty platform under the ASMALLWORLD umbrella and participate in the loyalty program with all the benefits it has. It's something that currently is only available -- or previously has only been available to smaller groups -- or larger groups but not to independent hotels. And we as ASMALLWORLD are now the vehicle or the service partner for independent hotels to join the portfolio. I mean it's a bit similar to what Marriott does with the Autograph Collection or -- well, I mean, it's pretty much the Autograph Collection, which is sort of an umbrella name for hotels that want to stay, remain independent and operate under the independent name, so we will not have "ASMALLWORLD" written on a hotel. They will stay with the hotel which is [ the service partner to the service ]. And the last one is actually a purely financial investment into Global Hotel Alliance. And obviously we bought that stake for USD 4.5 million and expect a certain return purely by owning the business in the form of dividends or potentially then reselling that stake at a future point in time at a higher price. Then the good thing is what we can actually say is the company has been doing a lot better than what we anticipated when we bought the stake during the pandemic. They will pay dividends quicker and more, so purely from a financial investment point of view, they've actually -- we've been doing well, so far. We believe it's been a good purchase of the stake in GHA. Page 19 is what I mentioned earlier. This is the brand portfolio that GHA DISCOVERY has. You see top left, like, Anantara, which is very well known. [ You can see ] Kempinski logo. NH is on here, Viceroy, Pan Pacific, Nikki Beach, all the hotels that are a part of the GHA DISCOVERY loyalty platform. All these brands are in there with their whole hotel portfolios. So far, there wasn't a way for independent hotels to join, and -- but now you can see there highlighted with the highlighting tool top left the ASMALLWORLD logo. We are now in that brand portfolio. And we'll have more and more independent hotels that will join GHA DISCOVERY, with ASMALLWORLD as their service partner. And we have announced one hotel already, and that's on Page #20. That is The Chedi Andermatt that have signed with us and will be the first one to go live under the ASMALLWORLD name. It was supposed to happen this week. It will probably be slightly delayed to the end of March, but -- due to a couple of extra loops that we have to do, but I mean, yes -- so the first hotel to go live then, probably still this month. With that, we will also put live the ASMALLWORLD DISCOVERY website, which is the name for that part of our product offering and obviously highlighting ASMALLWORLD as our company and DISCOVERY as the program. And we're also in conversations with many, many other hotels. We have 2 more that we will talk about very soon that are close to signing or like have almost signed and then a couple of others that we're hopeful that we will have them signed very soon. The target is that we have about 10 hotels signed by the end of June and then keep on building on that. And from a financial point of view, it is a commission sort of revenue model where the hotels pay a part of the stay to us and GHA when members book through the GHA loyalty platform, so the more hotels we have and the more bookings we generate through the GHA system, the more interesting it will be for us. Good. Well, that concludes the overview of the main initiatives that we're working on right now. So the ASMALLWORLD Collection, the expansion of the product offering for Precision and Signature with Emirates and the partnership with Global Hotel Alliance in multiple areas but now on focus the ASMALLWORLD's DISCOVERY setup to have independent hotels join the GHA DISCOVERY loyalty platform. Good. Moving on then to Page 22, where we have a quick look at the segment reporting; and specifically on this slide, the first of our 2 segments, the Subscriptions business. We've seen very solid growth, yes, from the Subscriptions business. Actually it's been the main contributor for the growth this year. We moved from CHF 10.2 million to CHF 13.0 million, so plus 28%, mainly driven due to strong ASMALLWORLD Prestige membership sales, increased demand for business and first-class flights. And then also the first 3 months with Emirates contributed to that, yes. On the EBITDA side, we grew by 3% to CHF 1.7 million -- and on the margin side. So we have a slightly lower margin. It moved from 16% -- from a margin of 16% to 13%, so 3 percentage points down, reflecting the write-off that we discussed earlier but also higher staff costs that led to a slightly lower margin for this segment. And for the Services business, on Slide 23. In short, it was very steady, if you look at the aggregate number, CHF 5.4 million. So it's a very, very tiny growth number of 0.1%. EBITDA also, I mean, stood at 0.8% (sic) [ CHF 0.8 million ] for both years. And the margin went up by a tiny bit, but there was a lot going on under the hood because the Services business has many contributors. So what we can say is the ASMALLWORLD Collection started to contribute positively. We've also seen the first contribution from GHA in the form of a service fee for the members that are joining ASMALLWORLD. Also first class and -- well, that was sort of the positive part. Also ASMALLWORLD Hospitality contributed quite strongly to the consulting project that we have in Dubai for The Ritz-Carlton Residences. Unfortunately, also at the same time, we have to say that this partnership or this collaboration has ended. It was terminated by MAG of Life, the partner or the developer there who decided not to work with us anymore. I think, as mentioned in the annual report and in the press release, we are challenging basically the end of -- this termination, also because we were actually supposed to get a fee on sales. And we -- of the apartments, the units. And obviously, by ending this partnership early means we wouldn't get any of our fees anymore from sales, so we're challenging basically this termination. And legal proceedings are pending, but it probably means that their -- that project will not sort of deliver any contributions in terms of commissions from sales in the future, which is very unfortunate. But it happens, when -- sometimes when you work with somebody else, that you end up in a dispute. Also a bit on the negative side. The First Class & More's business and first-class flight packages with -- have -- that had seen strong demand in 2021 experienced a bit of a dip this year. So overall some positives that contributed -- some positive parts that contributed more and some others that were a bit running behind and which then overall led to this sort of steady outcome of CHF 5.4 million. Although, the mix looks very different than it was last year. Good, which brings us to the consolidated financials for the year on Page 25. We start with the income statement, where we can see at the very top again this sales increase by 18%. As I said, it's primarily due to strong Prestige and Signature sales. Other operating income to minus CHF 250,000 is this impairment on the PMG deal. Direct expenses went up quite a bit, but this is in line obviously with the additional sales from the Prestige and Signature memberships, so it shouldn't be anything worrying. And then R&D, staff, OpEx and so on increased as well; increased due to the end of cost-saving measures and government support, and also team expansion. So that went slightly up again. And if we go further down there to the financial results, we have higher interest rates, as I mentioned earlier in the highlights. We have this CHF 325,000 there for 2022, which is higher than the -- just shy of CHF 200,000 in 2021. And also you see the CHF 278,000 on the financial income part there. That was the currency -- or the positive development for us since our liabilities in euros went down in value. So this is what explains why, from the operating results to the net results, we're actually going down. Or we had a stronger net result last year compared to this year. So it's these factors that led to that. Good. Then Page 26 is the balance sheet. Here we can see that the cash position has decreased by CHF 1.2 million from CHF 5.2 million to CHF 4 million. And what has happened in the big parts was we had this big payment for First Class & More. There was earnout payment of CHF 3.5 million that we had to pay out. And at the same time, the positive operating cash flow, I mean, sort of brought money back in, so that we ended at CHF 4 million. Receivables from services temporarily increased quite a bit there, but it's due to open invoices from the hospitality projects that we had which were paid actually already. So that has already gone down since the end of last year. And then prepayments also went up quite a bit. So this is travel and events that sort of just [ stood there ] over, I mean -- over the "end of the year" period [ but sort of are accounted for ] like that so, I guess, nothing to worry. It's a good thing. That will turn into revenue at some point. And financial assets, I think, is the other big change there. This CHF 4.6 million or CHF 4.7 million reflects the assets that we now have, with the 10% stake in GHA. That's it goes into [indiscernible] [ and kind of ] increases our balance sheet quite a bit, so overall balance sheet going up mainly due to this addition of the GHA stake in our sheets now -- in our balance sheet now, our assets. Liabilities, on Page 27. Here we -- if we're looking at the highlights. So those short-term financial liabilities went up a little bit. This was mainly due to interest and amortization payments for the loan that we have received for the GHA acquisition. So that is due in March. Maybe we've even paid it already, but otherwise, it will be happening this month. Then payables from goods and services, we'll see the -- saw a strong increase here into the balance sheet. That's because we had a big mile sale in -- or big miles sales to Miles & More and Emirates at the end of last year, all right? Some of these are open invoices that we needed to pay. Then we have short-term provisions that were reduced because we now actually paid the Miles & More -- sorry, the First Class & More earnout payment. And then the accrued liabilities increased due to deferred income from the Prestige sales. That means they're going over the period, which is also good stuff. And then in the liabilities we also see the long-term financial liabilities, that this one went up to CHF 8.6 million. This now reflects obviously the additional CHF 4 million that we have received there from the bank to finance the GHA acquisition. So here as well on the liabilities side we'll see that the balance sheet went up due to that acquisition of the GHA stake; and we now move to -- obviously, as well to CHF 12.3 million. Well, you can also see the total equity that we have is becoming less negative. And here again we follow the accounting principle that we don't have goodwill in our books which is [ written off ]. That's why we have negative equity here, but that will normalize as the -- as we write-down sort of the goodwill in the -- over time. Cash flow statement, Page 28. So the first part of that, that is the operating cash flow: At the very bottom, we see we got to CHF 2.3 million, down from CHF 4.1 million; changes mainly in the working capital that sort of contributed to that, primarily receivables from services and prepayments. Then we had this loss from impairment, which is the PMG deal again that I mentioned twice already; and then a bit more kind of share-based compensation, but I think the important thing here to note is this obvious drop in operating cash flow looks bad at first. We believe that the number in 2021 was a bit inflated due to the timing of the working capital changes and then actually that the number that we have this year more accurately reflects the -- our company's capacity to generate cash. So it was a bit inflated in 2021. And 2022 is probably a bit more normal compared to [ where we have our earnings are ]. Good. Investment activities are on Page 29. Here we had this cash outflow for First Class & More, the final earnout payment that I mentioned. It was CHF 3.5 million, so that was -- that's not helped. And what you see in the outflow for investment in financial assets is the acquisition of the 10% stake in GHA. That's why you see so much movement here of CHF 7.2 million overall. And then for the last part, inflow from financing, you see the CHF 4 million that we received there as bank loan in issuance of long-term financial liabilities of that. And then at the very bottom, you see the change in net cash to minus CHF 1.2 million that I mentioned earlier on the balance sheet. So the decrease of net cash and -- that happened over time. So all basically looks very, very reasonable given that we just had to make this big CHF 3.5 million payment. Good. Then that brings us to the outlook, Page 32, not a lot of new insights here from me for the outlook for next year. We -- actually, in terms of market environment, we still expect the market to gradually improve further. Although, I would say we're almost fully open or no restrictions already, which is good. We expect a bit of a boost from the partnership with Emirates Skywards for the Prestige and Signature memberships. So that's -- I think I mentioned that previously as well. And obviously we continue to push the ASMALLWORLD Collection as our go-to booking engine, driving bookings up with it. And also no surprise, as per the previous -- my previous comments, we will further develop the partnership with GHA and -- making sure that we get more hotels signed up for ASMALLWORLD DISCOVERY -- and also the other aspects of the collaboration. And in terms of guidance, which is the last content slide here in this presentation, on Page 33. We have, net sales, we anticipate somewhere between 10% and 20% growth. So that would bring us to just over CHF 20 million in sales. In terms of members, we anticipate also to hit the 70,000 members mark. So that's the goal for the end of the year. And in terms of EBITDA, I would say sort of moderate growth to CHF 2.6 million, CHF 2.8 million. It's a bit of we need to spend a bit of money on a few -- in a few areas, which make us a bit cautious on putting the EBITDA too high, so it's a bit of an investment year in a few areas. And so we're obviously trying to balance short-term profitability with long-term growth and setting the business up the right way, but if we -- you see that sort of a few investments have been held back or a few also tactical investments have been held back, which probably happen in 2023. That's why we sort of see a moderate or -- a moderate growth in EBITDA for -- to this year -- over the coming year. And that actually concludes my presentation. Now I'm very happy to go into Q&A and answer any questions that you may have.

[Operator Instructions] And the first question comes from [ Henry Renishways ].

Jan, congrats for the record year for ASMALLWORLD. I have maybe 3 or 4 questions for you. You just talked about the guidance, obviously. And you said it would be a rather conservative guidance given the outlook is -- on margin is not improving. Because if you take the numbers, you guide for an EBITDA margin [ of 11% to 14% ]. What is, in detail, burdening the EBITDA margin for this year? [ This will be ] my first question. Second question is that you have a tax rate of 9% right now. What is your nominal tax rate in Switzerland? And do you still have any losses carried forward that would offset tax for the future? And my third question is on the Prestige and the Signature memberships. I would like to know. How many -- or how much of that revenue is actually recurring? And do you see any churn or any trends of people, like in both ways obviously, of renewing the Signature and Prestige memberships with -- if travel is, yes, coming back in this year? And my last question is on the Global Hotel Alliance. I would like to know that -- you expect a dividend in this year. Can you provide us with a rough indication of what kind of amount of dividend you expect; and where in the P&L, I think it will be other operating income, you expect it?

Thank you for the questions. I wrote it down, so I can -- so I know what they were. Let me actually reorder them a little bit so that -- because one thing leads to another. And starting with the Prestige and Signature memberships: Yes. Obviously they are very important to us by now. So they've become probably the most important revenue driver and also impacted profitability. And you say, what's the renewal rates or the repurchase rate? It's a bit of an individual sales. So unlike sort of the social media business, where we have -- there's auto-renewals so you stay in for another year once it expires, we don't have that for the Prestige and for Signature. I mean these are, with over EUR 5,000 or EUR 10,000 of an item, you don't just want to automatically renew that, right? I mean it would just lead to a lot of very unhappy customers, so you almost have to -- well, not almost. You have to sell it again and again, almost making it a resale like a first sale again, but we do have a lot of recurring business. So we have -- we even have customers that do early renewals, as we call it, so which Miles & More actually allows us to do. It's the primary reason is somebody wants more air miles. They can do an early renewal and we get them the miles instantly. And then the membership will basically be topped on at the end, but he or she gets the miles, so there is recurring business there. But it's not automatically recurring, but it's sort of an individual sale and is usually very much dependent on whether the individual needs miles or not because that's the primary value you can get from the memberships, which is also why we're a bit cautious on sales and EBITDA. We have -- I mean the most important product that we have right now is the Prestige membership for Miles & More, which is the membership for 5,000 -- [ more than ] EUR 5,000 with 250,000 Miles & More miles. And the problem now is that Miles & More has also started to offer miles purchases directly from their website, which is something that they haven't done in the past, but so -- and they basically are now in direct competition with us and with our miles offering. And as you can imagine, it's -- when you're a customer who wants to buy miles and you can buy them directly on the website of Miles & More or you can then -- or you have to go to ASMALLWORLD and buy them there, you'd probably opt for the former, so we are a bit cautious on where we're going to get to in terms of sales for the Miles & More membership in 2023. We're now running a sales period right now and we can already see that sales are not as strong as we had in previous sales periods, so -- and so we're a bit cautious there. As I said, one reason is that Miles & More has basically started to compete with us on this product. And secondly, the other reason is also that the availability for miles flights is -- in the Miles & More network has been difficult, meaning if -- you have a hard time finding the business and first-class flights that you want with miles flights. And obviously, when that happens, people sit on their miles because they can't spend them, which means they're also not going to come back and buy more miles and so on and -- reducing the demand further. So lack -- competitive product for Miles & More, lack of availability reduces demand a bit for the Miles & More product. And Emirates obviously is completely new, so they should actually be contributing very positively. However, as I think mentioned earlier in this presentation, they made the program a lot less attractive through 3 sort of changes where they introduced changes that you need to spend more miles. You spend -- need to spend more extra fees, so they just really want to pay -- push the cash sales right now and not the miles bookings for flights and it's very obvious. And so yes, that also reduces the demand for the Emirates product a little bit, so this is why -- this is the context of these sort of big products that we have, so that's why we're a little bit, I mean, conservative, also because the Emirates products have a slightly lower margin there than then on Miles & More. So if we lose Miles & More, it will hit our EBITDA a lot more than sort of what the Emirates products can make up with. So that's another reason there that gives -- it's basically a transition to what the EBITDA margin impact will be of that change. And then on your point around dividends with GHA. So my understanding is, from an accounting point of view, that it doesn't go into our operating income or anything like that. I think it's sort of financial -- it's in the financial results part, which is below the EBITDA, and so that wouldn't really impact that number. And in terms of size of what it is: So I think we're not talking about massive amounts, but we're talking about something like in the region of, for next year, maybe close to CHF 100,000 or so. So it's not a massive amount, but it's -- I mean it's good because there was nothing planned. So getting something is better than not getting anything. That's the thing on GHA. And then the tax rate question: Yes, we still have losses that we can carry forward from previous years. I think the -- I will have to double check how long -- how much longer we -- and how big the amount is. Also I'm not a 100% sure on nominal tax rates, so I will probably have to go back and speak with Daniel, our CFO, to give you an accurate answer on that one. So I would, I will come back to you on that one.