Assicurazioni Generali S.p.A. (G) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon. I’m the conference operator for Chorus Call. Welcome, and thanks for being with us on the Generali Group full year 2025 results presentation. Just a reminder that everyone is in listen-only mode. Following the presentation, there will be a chance to ask questions. If anyone requires help during the call, they can signal an operator by pressing * and 0 on their phone. At this point, I’d like to hand the conference over to Mr. Fabio Cleva, Head of Investor and Rating Agency Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

Hi, everyone, and thanks for being on our call about full year 2025 results. Joining us today are Group CEO Philippe Donnet; Deputy Group CEO Giulio Terzariol; Group General Manager Marco Sesana; Generali Investments CEO Woody Bradford; and Group CFO Cristiano Borean. Before we open things up for Q&A, I'll pass it to Philippe for a few opening remarks.

Thank you, Fabio. Good afternoon, everyone, and I appreciate your joining us today. These results represent a successful first year for our strategic plan, Lifetime Partner 27: Driving Excellence. The strength and consistency of our performance make me very pleased. This clearly shows that the strategy we have is the right one, that we are carrying it out with complete conviction, and that we are creating value for our stakeholders. We are also continuing to strengthen our already solid balance sheet, and that will matter even more in a world with greater geopolitical uncertainty. In addition, these numbers reflect the key initiatives being rolled out by our expert teams across business lines and geographies, with hands-on guidance from head office and from the fantastic management team that presented the plan with me last year, and that is here with me today: Cristiano, Giulio, Marco, and Woody. I would like to share five key messages with you that underline the strength, quality, and momentum of our results. First, the group has delivered a very strong performance in 2025. We achieved a record operating result of €8 billion, with a 9.7% increase year on year. Our adjusted net result exceeded €4.3 billion, also reaching a new record high.

That produced growth in adjusted earnings per share of 16.2%, which is well ahead of the 8% to 10% compound annual growth rate target we set. Because of this strong performance, at our upcoming Annual General Meeting on the 23rd of April we will propose a dividend of €1.64 per share. That is almost 15% higher than last year and fully in line with our commitment to grow the dividend per share by more than 10% per year over the plan horizon. When I took the role of Group CFO, the dividend per share of Generali was 80 cents, and I'm very proud that we more than doubled it since then. We will also propose a €500 million share buyback reflecting our strong capital position. We will implement it this year once we receive the relevant approvals. All of these highlights are clear commitment to profitable growth, disciplined capital management, and increasing shareholder remuneration. My second message is about the excellent performance of our property and casualty business. Excellence in our core capabilities is one of our three key strategic priorities, and it translated into a 20% increase in property-casualty operating result. Such strong growth clearly demonstrates the positive effect of our disciplined strategic focus and of the many technical actions we have implemented in the last 18 months across pricing, risk selection, pruning, and claims management optimization.

Through these steps, we managed to deliver quite robust underlying technical profitability, improving our undiscounted combined ratio by 1.6 percentage points. That came alongside reserving that was highly prudent. Looking ahead, property-casualty has three main priorities for us: 1. We'll keep expanding our non-motor book so that our mix tilts toward business lines and products carrying stronger underlying profitability. Our franchise sits in a very strong position to seize growth opportunities across the countries where we operate. 2. Our focus will be on safeguarding the excellent loss ratio we have in our key geographies, making sure it holds up through the cycle. We'll also keep driving the turnaround in Switzerland and at Genertel in Italy, along with the integration of Liberty Seguros, which is moving ahead very successfully. And 3. We'll enhance the expense ratio via efficiency and productivity, backed by rolling out AI and automation widely throughout the insurance value chain. My third key message concerns life. Net inflows climbed to €13.5 billion, the highest levels witnessed anywhere in the European insurance industry. That mirrors how appealing our product offering is, how effective our distribution is, and the substantial investments we've made toward improving customer experience.

In 2025, our retention rate came in at just about 90%. The reason our customers are so loyal is that they have faith in us, and they genuinely like the services and products we offer. Most of these inflows were generated by our preferred business lines, with €4.5 billion from protection and health and €6.6 billion from hybrid and unit-linked. We managed that while keeping our underwriting discipline fully intact, as capital-light products made up a very high 84.5% share of our new business production. New business margin rose as the year went on, going from 4.75% in the first quarter to 6.88% in the fourth quarter. That produced a full year new business margin of 5.66%, which is near our 6% target for 2027. Right now, the interest rate environment is highly favorable for the life business, and customers are clearly drawn to what we offer. That makes us confident we can keep delivering growth in new business value, which leads to a higher contractual service margin and a life operating result that keeps growing. It deserves emphasis just how deep the transformation of our life book has been. A decade ago, this was mainly a spread business with high guarantees, exposure to capital market fluctuations, and high capital intensity. As of today, nearly 80% of life new business stems from protection and unit-linked, activities whose profit signature is most closely aligned with property-casualty and asset management.

On the traditional life side, the portfolio's running yield now sits 220 basis points above what we've guaranteed. That means profitability increasingly stems from fees and underwriting, and the business is capital-light, depends less on financial markets, and converts results into cash far more quickly. This transformation, along with the structural, sustainable gain in earnings quality, is something I'm very proud of. My fourth key message concerns asset management and wealth management. As of today, the group holds €900 billion in assets under management. Of that total, roughly €385 billion is managed for third-party clients. Ten years ago, that number was below €50 billion. In 2025, asset and wealth management accounted for 15% of our total operating result, so the contribution has more than doubled since 2016. I'm especially pleased with the strong performance we've delivered for clients and with the underlying net flow trend in asset management, which climbed to more than €16 billion last year — the highest level we have ever recorded. Asset management brought in over €1.6 billion of revenues, with more than €600 million of that from external clients. Its operating result is 7.5% higher year on year.

This likewise shows robust performance fees coming from a variety of asset classes, and those in turn mirror the growing, dependable investment capabilities we have. Our outlook for 2026 and beyond is quite optimistic, helped along by a number of new initiatives — among them the MGG acquisition, which we completed last October. On top of that, we keep gaining from the synergies linking our life and asset management operations. As proof of that, internal teams run two-thirds of 2025 unit-linked inflows. Over in wealth management, Banca Generali again posted very strong flows of €6.8 billion, pushing total assets past €110 billion. Those results are excellent, and further gains in 2026 should come from integrating Intermonte and the in-house banking initiative with Alleanza Assicurazioni. My fifth and final message concerns the solid headway we are making on the plan's three strategic foundations. They are: people, artificial intelligence and data, and sustainability. Seizing what AI, digitalization, and automation make possible — including agent productivity and an improved customer experience — ranks as a key priority. We pursue this without letup, and the outcomes our AI team delivers genuinely impress me. Our research partnership with MIT, started in 2024, is moving ahead quickly, with three high-impact use cases close to delivery and fresh streams already progressing this year.

Generali CoreTech serves as further evidence of how strongly we prioritize innovation and technological transformation — it's a new AI-driven software factory for our insurance operations, which we announced last month. We're also continuing to streamline our internal processes. Our AI efforts, for instance, are genuinely reshaping how claims are handled. That provides Generali with the strongest possible footing for the years to come, while already producing concrete financial gains today. In creating our Lifetime Partner 27: Driving Excellence plan, we set a target of roughly €300 million in efficiency gains from implementing AI. Execution is running ahead of what we originally assumed, which gives us the confidence to lift our 2027 ambition to more than €350 million. Our substantial investment in AI throughout the whole insurance value chain will benefit Generali beyond the horizon of our current plan. Indeed, we see clear upside potential for growing the top line — designing better products, delivering them faster, expanding our customer base, boosting agents' productivity, and capturing further efficiency. Turning to sustainability, we set highly ambitious targets within our current plan, and we're very pleased with the progress made in 2025. Our results confirm that championing societal resilience and supporting the green transition are not only the right choices — they also drive sustainable and profitable growth.

We take pride in the fact that our leadership keeps getting recognized, and we stay completely dedicated to excellence driven by sustainability and to creating value over the long term. To wrap up, these results affirm the excellent beginning of our ambitious strategy. We are well on track against the plan trajectory, and we see clear growth opportunities for our businesses. We are entirely focused on creating even greater value for all our customers as their lifetime partner and for our shareholders. We also keep strengthening our balance sheet as an important area of strength for the group, with prudent reserving, conservative asset allocation, low leverage, and focus on cash generation. We close 2025 with an extremely solid Solvency II ratio, and this will go up by 15 additional percentage points with the upcoming Solvency II review. I believe this is very important, also considering the current macro environment. We are entirely focused on delivering and potentially exceeding our Lifetime Partner 27: Driving Excellence targets, and we are confident in our ability to do it once more, just as we have done for our three previous strategic cycles under the leadership of this management team, which I thank for the outstanding work. Thank you for your attention and for your interest in Generali, and we are now happy to take all your questions.

Thanks. This is the Chorus Call conference operator. The question and answer session starts now. If you'd like to ask a question, you can press * and 1 on your touchtone telephone. To take yourself out of the question queue, press * and 2. When asking questions, please pick up the receiver. Anyone who has a question may press * and 1 at this time. Our first question comes from David Barma of Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Hello, and thanks for taking my questions. The first two are about P&C and are somewhat connected—one concerns the top line, the other expenses. On the expense ratio, we've observed a rise in acquisition costs, which I assume stems from stronger growth in non-motor. I believe you're now nearly 100 basis points above where you planned to start. Could you explain how you see the path from that point to your 2026 to 2027 goals of a flat expense ratio? Second, on underwriting, you've essentially already hit your underlying loss ratio targets. Could you discuss how you intend to balance additional pricing against volume growth in 2026, and whether in motor especially you'd like to improve margins further? Finally, on cash, could you tell us the free cash level at year-end, and what the underlying level of remittances was in '25? Thank you.

Thanks a lot, David. For the first two questions—the P&C expense ratio and where the loss ratio goes from here—those go to Giulio, and the third one, about the cash, is for Cristiano.

No, thank you, David. Regarding your first question on the expense ratio, here is what I'd say. Actually, we had no target for the expense ratio. Our targets were set for the G&A ratio, and after that for the cost-income ratio. Looking at the G&A ratio, the improvement we aimed to deliver under the plan across the three years was 150 basis points. I believe you can see in the comments that there is an improvement of, let's say, about 50 basis points in the G&A ratio. Seen from that angle, things are heading in the right direction. What we observe, though, is a rise in the other acquisition expenses. That's partly because of mix, but it's also partly because the incentives or the premiums are rising. Partly it also follows from the fact that the profitability of the business is improving, and at this stage there are incentives tied to the profitability of the business. That being said, honestly speaking, we are not 100% happy with how this is developing. As we've discussed a few times already, moving forward we're going to place more focus as well on the development of the expense ratio overall.

We feel highly confident about bringing the G&A ratio down as we discussed, and I can also tell you that we see this reflected in the plan covering the next 2 years. Now we will place greater emphasis on ensuring stability in the acquisition expense ratio as well. Once that portion of the expense ratio is stable and we have achieved improvement in operational expenses, then in the future we should see a picture in which the overall expense ratio decreases. That is an area where we will put more emphasis going forward, because until now our main point of attention was G&A, and on that front we are definitely delivering in line with what we said last year. Regarding the other point about underwriting and how we see development in 2026, I can tell you that starting with non-motor, where we have a very good combined ratio, we see a degree of stability. We will continue to have pricing that follows inflation. We know that a lot of business has indexation, so from that standpoint you can expect stability.

As usual, pruning is something we'll be doing. There are portfolios where pruning is needed, so that's a standard activity for us, and you can imagine we'll deliver high-quality results in non-motor. Turning to motor, on one hand, clearly we will see average premium go up, which is lower than what we saw in 2025, but we still expect an average premium increase that is ahead of inflation. Just to give you an idea, we expect average premium to rise by 4% to 5% in 2026. Inflation, or the risk premium, this year was an increase of 1.6%. Even if you assume lower frequency, and maybe we see frequency higher than what we saw this year, and you look at how our risk premium evolved in 2024, then you get to 3%. Even if you take a 2026 situation similar to 2024, we still have a spread of about 1 to 2 percentage points that we can realize on the motor side. From that point of view, we would expect to still see some improvement in the motor combined ratio compared to what we have right now.

Keep in mind that motor profitability has become quite robust at this point. If you adjust the motor combined ratio for NatCat as well as, shall we say, the elevated prior-period figure, what we arrive at is an undiscounted motor combined ratio already a touch under 96%. Looking at it that way, I'd call these very solid results, and there remains a bit of headroom to improve as we move into 2026.

Hi, David. This is Cristiano. Regarding cash at year-end '25: the total balance across all accounts comes to €5.1 billion, but keep in mind that some treasury elements aren't reflected because they sit within the cash pooling. The genuinely available cash stands at €2.9 billion, and that figure is meant to cover our M&A capabilities on one hand, plus the debt amount that needs refinancing, which had been pre-financed. That same number also includes the customary precautionary cash buffer we choose to hold so we can handle any possible unexpected level. On the underlying remittance trend, I'd say the recurring component shows a slight increase in remittance from '25 to '24. When I say from '25 to '24, I'm always talking about the cash view — meaning you have to look 1 year back to see what the actual dividend or remittance derives from — and it's slightly above 4% on the recurring component. During 2025, we received the dividend tied to the 2024 results, which carried that kind of growth level. Looking ahead, a solid degree of growth is anticipated, in line with the business on one side and with our confidence in exceeding the minimum threshold of €11 billion in cumulative net holding cash flow that we announced last year.

Regarding that point, we have complete confidence, since the beginning of the first year comes before it, and the momentum is holding up.

Let's take the next question.

Our following question comes from Will Hardcastle at UBS. Please proceed.

Oh, hello. The first question concerns solvency and debt leverage. It's somewhat of a puzzle, really, because it's extremely strong—a nice position to be in—and yet debt leverage is low. My assumption is that this isn't at the most capital-efficient level right now. I suppose you could walk us through some of the dynamics you might be considering on that front? That would be useful. The second one is the big picture. Could you say whether you've given thought to, or looked into, how credible the large language model distribution models that were discussed recently could be, and do you see this altering distribution in European marketplaces, essentially making them somewhat more like price comparison websites? How do you think Generali would be positioned if that turned out to be a major impact? Thank you.

Thanks a lot, Will. Of course, the opening question goes to Cristiano, and the second one is directed at Marco.

Hi, Will. Yeah, I'd say it's not just that the solvency level is high — what really matters to me is that solvency sensitivity has come down very, very substantially. Let me just give you an example, proactively. You'll recall that back in 2018, when we laid out the 2019 to 21 plan, we showed a few stress tests we were running on group solvency. Under those very same assumptions, we've now essentially cut the group's sensitivity in half, which gets us to a really solid level of confidence in our ability to project and diversify both profit and our capacity for remittance. Why do I bring this up? Because, as Philippe said, the 15 to 16 percentage point gain in solvency coming from the Solvency II review — obviously subject to regulators' approvals — will give us additional headroom on that front. Of course, that question has been and is being addressed. Our leverage is very low, and that gives us strategic flexibility to capture every possible opportunity, on the one hand, and on the other hand it also provides plenty of headroom to bring down the cost of debt, since you don't necessarily have to issue subordinated debt going forward. That's the kind of flexibility we have.

Honestly, we're quite happy with how much spread we're able to get on our issuance, and that's thanks to this really low level — we're actively managing that balance. To be sure, as you rightly noted, we sit pretty much in a very favorable sweet spot when it comes to flexibility and the cost of future debt, and likewise for funding future growth, which is available. The solvency will also be put to work through, on one hand, investments and business growth. At this level, we're also able to fund the solvency internally through solvency, our business growth, which is a good thing. You've seen that already happening in our capital generation, which faces some strain in solvency capital requirements. It's genuinely a growing recurring investment and business result going forward, combined with strategic flexibility.

Hello. I'll walk you through an overview, picking up from the remarks Philippe just made. Artificial intelligence use cases are a genuine focus of our work. We're working to bring in a new approach to leveraging artificial intelligence via agentic AI. We're working across every link of our value chain — yes — and notably on distribution as well. That matters a great deal, because I believe providing context for what we're doing is always very important, since the technology we're discussing is at an early stage, and we don't yet fully see all the usages that may emerge. Staying in the game matters, experimenting, and seeing where the technology could potentially develop, using several providers and, I would say, making sure we have an intelligent application when it comes to process review and efficiency gains. Now, when we speak specifically about LLM and distribution, I'd return to what we covered during our strategic plan, and a couple of points are super important. The first is that we truly do see applications in artificial intelligence and LLM capable of boosting the productivity of our distribution. We see enormous potential for our distribution to do more, to be better, to increase time spent with the client, to really cut back office activity, and to improve both the quality and the amount of time spent with the client.

The second thing that always deserves a mention is that we're striving to ensure the client retains every option for engaging with Generali. Customers have plenty of different channels at their disposal, and I think we're focused on our customer experience so that the customer has freedom of choice in how they interact. As we've said, we firmly believe the agent will remain part of this interaction picture — a three-way interaction, in a sense. The agents, the company, our customer center. There are lots of ways we can engage with the customer. The customer chooses how to do so. I think this has been quite evident, for those of us who took part in the deep dive in Mallorca, how we're transforming distribution, how we're using this tool so that our distribution is far more effective and far more present in face time with the client. The final thing I'd like to add is that obviously, we're carrying out a number of initiatives because we understand we need to own the digital space much better than in the past, since the LLM can clearly sway the steering of new business.

We're making an effort to, I'd say, take up and claim a bigger share of the digital space.

Moving on to the next question, please.

Our next question comes from Farquhar Murray at Autonomous. Go ahead, please.

Hi there. I have just a couple of questions, if that's alright. First, this is a bit of a geeky one, but would you walk me through the yield curve sensitivities of the CSM? Specifically, I'm curious why they appear to have flipped sign and become more moderate across the year. That probably ties back to the response you gave Will on sensitivities. Second, a broader question about AI. I was quite interested in the long-run potential you laid out on claims management on slide 19 — that 40% productivity gain. My simple question is really, how far off is that sort of long-run potential? Maybe the more complicated parts are: what are the key steps to getting there? What bottlenecks might exist? In particular, how hard will it be to scale those out across the businesses? Thanks.

Thanks a lot, Farquhar. Of course, the first question goes to Cristiano, and the second one is for Marco.

Hi, Farquhar. On the sign inversion, it's largely a driven effect coming from two big countries — Italy and Germany. As you've seen, the steep rise in interest rates during 2025 was heavily concentrated at the long end of the curve — far more in 20-year swaps than in 10-year swaps — and that hit the portfolio, which is mostly the fixed-fee product portion. As Philippe rightly noted in the introduction, with the huge transformation of the life portfolio, it's now shifting more toward the fee-based component, and that gives such a portfolio much better and lower dependence on the market. Clearly, in that situation, when you can extract a certain fixed amount of fees, as interest rates rise you become a bit sensitive on the opposite side — which is happening for both the traditional and hybrid products in Italy, given the liability structure we're explaining, as well as for the increased weight of unit-linked in Germany. On that point, we are the largest collector of unit-linked in Germany, especially also in the mix. That's the underlying effect, and it's even more pronounced when combined with the larger weight of the protection business in the VFA part.

Incidentally, this strikes me as a topic worth exploring in depth during our Exploring Generali session on finance on 19 March, though I believe you've grasped it precisely, and I hope I've given you the vision. That's

Thanks.

Hi there. That's a great question. In terms of where we see the biggest opportunities for benefit and productivity gains, claims management actually ranks among the top areas. And just to note, software development is the other one, where we're currently seeing enormous potential. To get to your specific question, it really hinges on what we mean by long-term versus short-term. If by long-term you mean something like 10 years, then no — it will be far shorter than that. With the technology we currently have available, we do see the potential for meaningful efficiency gains well before then. I'd say even within a 3 to 5 year window, that's something you may see coming up in our disclosure. What will take somewhat longer is probably scaling. What do I mean by that? Clearly, one of the most advanced applications we're developing — agentic AI in claims — we're starting with material damage, which means building the algorithm and the agenting, I'd say the orchestration and flow, for a specific country. Clearly, we're running more than one experiment at a time, so it will take some time to generalize and provide a common tool for all the business units to implement and transform.

A number of these gains will be obvious in this plan. A good deal more will likely show up in the plan after it. We feel a great deal of urgency about putting this application in place. And if I could single out one point, perhaps slightly tangential, within all the managerial transformation, technology and the technical side is just one piece of the transformation. There's change management around people, there's learning a new tool, there's adjusting to variability in outcomes that already exist right now because of the human element, but it will be different with the AI element. Finally, I'd say this is a transformation that, for the entire group, is going to take some time, though not an extremely long time. Probably the last part of your question — okay, it's the benefit, when we're going to see the benefits. I'd say probably somewhere between this plan and the next one. That's it. Early on, the overview.

Let's take the next question. Oh, right — please, Farquhar, go ahead.

Sorry, just to follow up on that. Regarding the scaling discussion, what are the bottlenecks that slow that down, as well, just so I understand?

No, there’s no bottleneck at all. What it really comes down to is building AI algorithms that work well in one situation and can then be reused in another. It’s genuinely just the natural evolution of the technology — there really isn’t a bottleneck. Incidentally, the pilots we’re running are coming along very nicely. We have a couple going in Eastern Europe and a couple in Iberia, in Spain and Portugal; what we’re doing there is very nice, and I don’t see any bottleneck that differs from any other application we’re pursuing across the group.

Excellent. Appreciate it.

Let's take the next question.

Farooq Hanif from JPMorgan has the next question. Go ahead.

Hello, and thank you. My first question is hopefully directed at Philippe. Regarding your remarks on partnerships in Italy, you mentioned that the UniCredit partnership is performing well, that you plan to expand it, and that you may then move into additional partnerships. Could you share some of your thinking on this, what would make it appealing, and qualitatively what upfront costs might be involved? My second question concerns the non-operating costs. You have clearly pushed a substantial amount of costs very much forward into 2025 to speed up your plans, but what does that imply for 2026 and 2027? Because obviously, we discuss operating a great deal, yet a large portion of your target is the non-operating side, and that has been very noisy over the last decade. My final question is about the investment margin outlook in both life and P&C. You make some comments in the slides and in your presentation regarding reinvestment rates and slower growth in IFRS. Should we expect a wider margin in P&C and perhaps the same in life over a longer timescale? Thank you.

Thanks a lot, Farquhar. Farooq, question one goes to Philippe, question two is for Cristiano, and question three is for both Marco and Cristiano, since it covers the reinvestment yield as well as the IFRS trajectory ahead.

Hi Farooq. On your first question, I won’t go into too much detail. We do already have a partnership with UniCredit — in bancassurance across Central Eastern Europe and also in asset management at this point. We would certainly be open to exploring further collaboration and industrial opportunities with them, provided those create value for every stakeholder. There could also be additional business opportunities in Italy, including bancassurance agreements and asset management agreements. We’re reviewing every attractive opportunity available to us. Our product range is broad on the insurance side, and likewise on the asset management side, where we’ve substantially expanded our set of capabilities. We are clearly a strong candidate for partnerships both within Italy and beyond it.

Hello, Farooq. On the non-operating items, first off, yes, you've got it right. We're speeding things up. The room was there, the capabilities were there, and the speed — particularly of execution — is what let us get to that point. What does that mean? For '26 and '27, I think this is something we'll also address again next week, but here's a small spoiler: staying at roughly €100 million in running restructuring charges, also under the IAS 19 definition of severances, which sometimes involve individual negotiation rather than only large-scale restructuring. That's the rate. What does it mean for profit? On profit, certainly, the restructuring we booked in 2025 on the balance sheet will materialize in Italy, in Germany, and in Spain and Portugal — the latter two especially in connection with the Liberty integration. The speed differs somewhat: in Germany the conversion of the payback is much faster, somewhat longer in Liberty and for Spain because of the integration, and the longest one of all is in Italy; in any case, it's accretive to our profit. Overall, I'd say that if you add all of them together, from 2028 onwards this should deliver a pre-tax benefit of slightly more than €100 million. It's also about creating room for the future, along with future speed and efficiency.

We're quite focused, and your point about the jittery non-operating items is well noted and has been caught. This year we took that opportunity, but the focus — which you've seen in the reduction — is on materially lowering the negative non-operating result, materially lowering net other non-operating expenses, bringing much greater discipline, moving €80 million starting this year out of non-operating and back into operating, affecting both the life and the P&C ratios; that's the trajectory we're on. This amounts to a far bigger commitment to cutting what we call the evaporation from operating to earnings before taxes. It's part of what we'll also discuss next week. I'll hand over to Marco for the investment margin.

Yes. To go back again to what Philippe mentioned, right now we’re seeing a very favorable interest rate environment. That’s interesting because the spread between our average book yield and the reinvestment yield is positive in both life and P&C. At the moment, we probably see more of that in P&C than in life. Next year in life, we expect a 30 to 30 basis point improvement—sorry, 20 to 30 basis points—and in P&C more, up to 120 basis points. For the non-VFA life non-VFA investment result, I’d expect something more in line with this year, while for 2026 I’d probably expect a higher P&C investment result. As Cristiano