Atos Group (ATO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Atos Group Q3 2026 Performance Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Philippe Salle, Group Chairman and CEO. Please go ahead.

Thank you, operator, and good morning, everybody. So let's go directly to the presentation. I will start with the first 2 sections, and then I will hand over to Jacques Francois. So we start on Page 6. The key message for this quarter continued sequential performance improvement. So I will come back, of course, on the revenue and the fact that, as I said in the last quarter, we are sequentially, let's say, stable. And of course, easing, let's say, the comps versus 2025. We confirm also the full year targets. Second Genesis, we said already in the first quarter that Genesis was in fact, not over, but it was done in terms of the EUR 650 million of savings that we have sketched during the CMD last year. We continue Genesis will be closed, in fact, by the end of the year. and we will reach far, let's say, above the target commercial activity always lower in Q3, and I will come back on this. And then we continue, of course, accelerating in our strategic pillars. Remember that we have 3 of them. When I go on the key numbers on Page 7. So in terms of revenue, so EUR 1.642 billion at current parameters, so it's minus 2.4%. So we are close, let's say, to a breakeven, and we are very happy, I would say, on this result. Order entry is EUR 1 billion, -- so order entry is always lower, in fact, in Q3, just because it's, let's say, the summer season. And remember also that we have 2 events, let's say, for the order entry. The first 1 is that it is linked to the renewal of large contracts. 50% of our revenue is managed services. And in fact, usually managed services, it's 5- to 7-year contracts, usually large ones. But when we have large contracts like CNA, for example, it's a booking roughly of EUR 300 million, EUR 400 million. So of course, it pushed very hard, I would say, on the book-to-bill on the order entry. But in Q3, in fact, we didn't have any renewals. And that's why that, in fact, the order entry was more not managed services and managed services. So I would say the performance is quite okay because it means that 62%, we are above the 50% of not, let's say, managed services. Remember also that there are some contracts where we don't book any order entry like, for example, EDF or like, for example, the contracts we have won in the U.K. with the polys because it's what we call framework agreement, which means that -- we have the light song, let's say, to play. And of course, we're going to play. Probably, for example, in the U.K., we estimate it's EUR 40 million, EUR 50 million per year, in fact, starting already, in fact, this year and next year, but we don't put any order entry for this contract. And that's why I would say, of course, it's lower, let's say, the book-to-bill. Net change in cash. This one also is a very good news, EUR 44 million. It's the first time since Genesis. And in fact, it's the first time when you look at back at the company in '22, '21. And we have EUR 350 million of cost structuring. Remember, we put EUR 120 million of restructuring in H1. So we had EUR 170 million we estimate that the total for this year will be close to EUR 200 million. So it means roughly EUR 30 million more to come in Q4. And then the liquidity, EUR 966 million. Remember that in the liquidity we don't put the Escrow. So it means, in fact, that the cash is roughly above the EUR 1.2 billion and we are quite confident that we will finish between EUR 1.3 billion and EUR 1.4 billion at the end of the year. So if we go on Page 8, you can see that roughly we have a stabilized -- and I said that, in fact, already since Q1, the revenues. In fact, we don't lose any large contracts in the course of '26. Unfortunately, we lose -- we lost some of them, in fact, in the U.S. in 2025. And that's why the comps, of course, is a little bit tough in some countries like in the U.S. But of course, it's easing -- and in fact, it's going to ease even more, in fact, in Q4 because, in fact, in the U.S., we will be probably growing in the course of Q4. So as you can see, minus 11% in the first quarter, roughly minus 6% in the second quarter, we had now a minus 2%. And we estimate that in Q4, we will be between 0 and minus 2%. If we go on Genesis on the next page, so Page 9. So we are, as I say, we are above the target, we will finish probably close to EUR 800 million by the end of the year. In fact, I have accelerated Genesis just because, of course, the top line was not there in the course of '26 and as you can see, we have done several initiatives in terms of gross offering and simplification that, of course, will continue. Just 1 probably comment, the viability rate. Remember that the goal was roughly at 65. We are now close to 84. And we will touch probably the 85 in the first half year of '27 because we are finishing, let's say, the restructuring next year in Northern Europe and France. If we go on Page 10, this is a workforce evolution. We are roughly now flat, let's say, quarter-on-quarter. There were not, I would say, bigger will be, I would say, no big change going forward. You can see also that the attrition is around 10%, probably too low for a company like us. But at least, I would say it's good for us, of course, to keep our, let's say, staff in this moment where we do a lot of change in the company. Now if I go on Page 11 and book to bill so as I say, it's 62%. As I said also, remember, it's low, but there is no, let's say, renewals in terms of managed services. So it's normal, I would say that we have this let's say, lower or book-to-bill. We estimate that the book-to-bill in Q4 will be above 100. It's always, let's say, higher in the last quarter of this year. The qualified pipeline also is very strong, and it continues to be stronger, roughly at EUR 1.7 billion with an increase in the course of H1. And also, the renewal rate also has increased around 9% -- after that, you can see some major wins. I talked about EDF. So EDF in the book to bill is 0. Metropolitan police also is 0, very close to 0, although some framework agreements we had with HMRC that is also big. And again, this book to bill is 0. And then you can see other contract wins that we have, for example, in Barcelona with the European space operator. For the strategic pillar, remember that it's Agentic digital sovereignty and cybersecurity. So in Agentic AI, in fact, we're going to go over Agentic. We're going to have a big release in terms of our AI, let's say, development. It will be Monday next week. We call -- it's a suite in fact, that we're going to launch it is called Agentic intelligence, and you will have, of course, more details in the course of next week. But including the AGI, we call -- I would say, there is a platform called AposCodex that is very powerful and that we have started to implement in France and in the U.K. Digital sovereignty, just for example, we have also partner more, I would say, with SAP to be a cloud partner and cybersecurity. We have launched, let's say, different offers. Just for information innercity and Access Management, Evident has a solution, and we are the only European, I would say, a player that has a solution that is really sovereign and secured that we can push against most of the U.S., let's say, most of the competition, which is impacted in the U.S. If you look at on Page 13, some delivery from contracts that we have won and also that we are delivering right now. I'm not going to, let's say, review all of them, but you have some examples in Germany, in China, in Europe and of course, in France. So on Page 14, on internal adoption of Agentic AI. We are also, of course, pushing, as you can imagine, Agentic AI very strongly also in the company. And I will come back, in fact, at the end of Feb with our full year results to show you exactly what we do. In fact, Agentic AI for us, it's 2 things. It's Agentify, let's say, our back office, so agentify on our own back office and identify also our own delivery. This, of course, will be more, let's say, I will explain more what we are doing in the -- I would say, in next year in February with full year results. In terms of cyber, you can see on Page 15, I put some, let's say, what we are doing in terms of it attack, et cetera. We are also working on the quantum, I will say, response we're going to have in the future. but there is a lot of things that is done right now. And remember, it's a mix between even software, of course, and hardware. And of course, at all services, we estimate that overall, the cyber revenue is close probably to EUR 1 billion. So it's 15% of our revenues for the company. Let's go now on the operational performance country by country. So first, on Page 17, you can see the evolution of the revenues. So we start with Q3 last year that we have published -- then you have the divestiture that we have done. Remember that it was built and also TAM and a little bit of Northern Europe, you have the foreign exchange. And then you have, I would say, the the Q3 '25 at current parameter change, which is 1683. And then as I say, we have 1,640, so we are very close, let's say, to last year, we are just missing EUR 40 million which is roughly 2.4% of organic decrease. Now let's look at the performance country by country. You have here, I would say, let's say, the view by geo. And remember that with Atos, we have 6 geos and also the view of evidence -- as you can see, we are growing, in fact, in international markets. It's the first time we continue the growth with U.K. and we are also growing -- continue also the growth with evident France is close to the breakeven probably in Q4 and then Europe, Germany, North America and BNL. Let's do it country by country. So Germany on Page 19, so minus 6%. We still have some ramp downs of clients, in fact, that we have lost in '24 and in '25 and also some clients, like, for example, Dutch bank that has decided, I would say, to internalize some of the managed services that we had with Atos. So it's not a loss versus the competition. It's just, I would say, some clients who have decided to do internally, what they used to, I would say, externally. So minus 6%. And I would say we are quite stable in terms of revenue when you look at quarter-by-quarter. When you look at the U.S. on Page 20, I think the good news is that we are also stable. We do roughly $96 million per month, between $95 million and $96 million. We estimate that we will continue to do roughly this in the Q4 probably above and 1 is that last year, we were exactly at $96 million per month in Q4 -- so I would say that in Q4, for the U.S., we will probably be at 0 or restart growing as soon as next quarter. So in fact, we lost a big contract in 2025. Remember that we have decided, I would say, not to renew this contract because of the margin. And of course, the comparison is still tough. And of course, it will ease in Q4 and then we can probably, I would say, then restart growing in the course of the year of '27 for the whole year. In France, on Page 21, as I say, we are close to breakeven -- we have signed a lot of contracts also in France. So we see that the commercial development is in good shape. And EDF is a very important contract that we have signed. It doesn't, let's say, give any revenues, in fact, of course, this year and next year, but we estimate that it will start to give some revenues in the course of '28 U.K. on Page 22. In fact, the organic growth is a little bit, let's say, we don't grow at 30% in this country. we are roughly at EUR 300 million plus per quarter. Last year, in fact, it was a very low quarter and that's why the comparison, I think, for me is a little bit fake. And in fact, when you look atQ4 they have done roughly a EUR 306 million, I think last year, we will be probably around this EUR 300 million. So in fact, we will be close to -- so it's just only an effect between Q3 and Q4 and the fact that the base impact was very low in '25. But sequentially, we are around EUR 300 million plus. It depends on the quarter. And of course, all the contracts that we have signed will yield, in fact, more revenue in the course of next year. In terms of international market, remember also that we lose also a big client in the banking sector. and we lose it, in fact, not because of Atos, but because also like in Germany, they have decided to put the managed services internally. So the comparison was tough, in fact, in '25 and it west also for the first 2 quarters of '26. it's not the case anymore. So I think it's great. And now we are seeing some growth in different areas. In fact, we are seeing in Spain and also in Eastern Europe and of course, in Middle East and Asia. Last bit, Benelux, in Northern Europe. This 1 is a little bit more because as we have exited some contracts last year, it was -- it is a weaker for me Q3. And I definitely think that it will be much better in the course of Q4. So probably the comparison is a little bit tough for Q3, but I definitely think that we will do better in the coming quarters. So dividend, in fact, when you look at the numbers, it seems that it is decreasing, but in fact, with the split of bill, the comparison in fact, is not very fair. And the underlying organic growth is 5%. So this is SBU that is growing at 5 now, and I definitely think that double digit is -- should be the growth going forward. Remember that in video Middle East has a big impact on us, especially on Visa and it's several dozens of millions for us. So we hope, I would say, to recover on this part. I don't know if it will be in '26 or '27, but we know that there is a lot of potential in this region for our visionary business will see if we can sign some contracts. There is a big one, in fact, that is still waiting, let's say, a signature from 1 client. We'll see if it's in Q4 this year, it will be in the course of 27. But dividend, of course, as you know, with defense, with cyber, there is a lot of, let's say, win in favorable for us. And I think that it will -- we will, in fact, continue to accelerate in the coming years. With this, I hand over to Jacques-François de Prest For the financial results.

Thank you, Philippe, and good morning, everyone. So as a reminder, the publication of our quarterly liquidity position is part of the regular reporting requirements, which have been defined in the December '24 credit documentation, all the certificates are available on our website. So the key message for this quarter is that we have reached an important milestone with positive cash generation for the first time since the launch of Genesis -- the net change in cash, as you can see on the slide, was positive and estimated at approximately plus EUR 44 million in the quarter, including a significant restructuring cash impact of around EUR 50 million. This reflects the progress made on our operational performance and cash discipline and reinforces our confidence that we are all well on track to achieve our full year 2026 guidance. This figure excludes several other items that ultimately impact the liquidity position. The exchange rate fluctuation, which amounted to approximately minus EUR 6 million, M&A for minus EUR 5 million; change in unsolicited payments received in advance of the invoice payment due date during the quarter for minus EUR 10 million, cash movements relating to other financial assets and liabilities for minus EUR 9 million, net fees associated with the successful refinancing of the first Lim tranche of the December 24 debt for minus EUR 9 million; and lastly, the factoring. The factoring program has improved liquidity by EUR 14 million during the quarter. Remember that this program provides a secure and recurring source of funding at an all-in attractive cost of 4.25% plus Euribor 3 months. It is committed for a duration of 3 years on a nonrecourse basis, and it is expected to continue to ramp up in the fourth quarter and beyond. Note that due to the pace of the program ramp up, we did not buy back debts on the market in Q3, and we started to buy some more in the early days of Q4 before our close period started. Taking all these elements together, our liquidity position increased by EUR 18 million in the quarter, compared to our post debt repayment position to an estimated EUR 966 million as of September 30. This level remains well above the EUR 650 million minimum liquidity requirement under our December '24 credit documentation. So overall, we turned cash positive in the quarter while continuing to fund the restructuring for the group. We strengthened our liquidity position and we are starting to benefit from the progressive deployment of our trade receivable factoring program. That concludes my intervention. I hand over back to Philippe.

Thank you. So remember, Q3, Q1, of course, we don't provide a lot of figures. So that's why it's very simple. I will finish this presentation on Page 29 on the financial ambition of 2026. And in fact, it's the same as the last quarter, and in fact, the same as the first quarter also -- so we still see an organic growth. It's not really a growth. It's a decrease at minus 5%, and it's around minus 5%. As you can see, with Q3 at minus 2%, we are, I would say, in a good way, I would say, to achieve, of course, this result. Operating margin around 7%, so we don't change this. And a positive net change in cash. So in fact, the cash flow in H1 was minus EUR 120 million. We have roughly EUR 44 million in Q3. So it means we will do EUR 76 million or above in -- remember that right now, the position of cash is EUR 1.2 billion plus plus the free cash flow of EUR 76 million. it's EUR 1.3 billion. And probably, we have a client in advanced payment that we received also in Q4. It's still low right now at EUR 100 million. It was roughly EUR 270 million at the end of 2025 So it's possible that we finish probably between EUR 1.3 billion and EUR 1.4 billion, probably touching the EUR 1.4 billion with, I would say, client in advance and in fact, that's exactly what we have said during, I would say, the refinancing in May, and we have been cautious, of course, at the beginning of July, but we will have, I would say, a very decent position of cash at the end of the year. With this, I hand over to you, operator, and we can take, of course, questions going forward.

[Operator Instructions] We will now take our first question from the line of Frederic Boulan from Bank of America. .

Philippe and Jack Francois. Two questions, please. Maybe 1 for Philippe, 1 for Jacques Francois. So firstly, Philippe, if you can spend a bit more time on the overall demand incompetitive environment. I mean we're seeing steady revenue improvements book-to-bill was low, but you explained not reflecting a number of public contracts. So it would be good to understand a bit more demand competition pricing? And secondly, Jacques-Francois around the refinancing side of things. If you can explain a little bit where you see the main opportunities the decision framework on opportunities considering the current credit conditions.

Yes. Thank you, Frederic. So on the first one, I think that the market is, I would say, still healthy. And the position of Atos, let's say, the decrease of the turnover revenues, it's because of Atos for me, it's not because of the market. And I would say, I just want to remind that, of course, the events of 2024 is still alive, unfortunately, for some of our clients. it's easing. And as I say, I think in an interview that this year is better than last year, but we is going to be less better, of course, than next year. I definitely think, of course, that the confidence, the trust and the clients are showing now to us is building up, and I'm very happy. Remember we lost a lot of contracts in the U.S. that I definitely think we can probably win back probably in '28, '29 because some of the contracts is 4, 5 years. It depends on the length of the contract. But we see now the clients calling back and having, let's say, confidence understanding, I would say that Atos back. The fact that we are also cash flow positive, I think it's a very strong signal for our clients. So I'm very happy also to -- and of course, I will be vocal on this one with our key clients. So we'd say the environment is okay. Of course, there is a true way of environment, and I'm sure that my competition is doing probably telling the same thing in the U.S. and Europe. U.S., where we see more and more, let's say, AI development. And we're going to show at the end of February launch probably for different initiatives in the U.S. I cannot tell you that much right now, but be patient, it will come. Where we see, of course, that the impact, let's say, of Agentic is coming, let's say, more live in our bidding. If you -- in fact, if you be read, let's say, an agent component you out of the market today. The difficulties for some of the contracts we see is that suey competition are put in crazy numbers in year 3, 4 or 5 of the contracts because it's a bet right now. I definitely think that nobody has a clear picture of the impact of, let's say, Agentic on our delivery we will probably have a better view in the coming months because, of course, we do a lot of things internally. But let's say, the competition is quite, let's say, unrealistic sometimes on the gains that we can do. It could be for me, some black contracts, and that's why for some of the accounts, I don't want to take this bet. Atos not, let's say, the financial strength to, of course, and win some contracts because of that. But in fact, in some contracts, like for example, in CNA, we are able, let's say, to show initiatives, of course, of AI. And of course, the fact that we can share after that or give, I would say, part of it or most part of it, let's say, to the customers. So let's say, in the U.S., Agentic is more and more live and we need, of course, to put this component in our bidding process. In Europe, it's less the case for the moment. I definitely think that we are lagging versus the U.S. For me, as I say, Agentic is more marathon. It's probably a 3 to 5 years, probably more, to 7 years, I don't know before it comes live. Remember also that in Europe, we have also social laws that are more rigid. So of course, when you put agentification in your process, and you cannot get rid of some of your staff, it's more difficult, of course, to see some examples but we see some appetite. So in fact, we have a discussion. And with what we're going to launch on Monday, we have already some initiatives in the U.K. and in France, where the -- I think we have the suites we're going to launch on Monday, you will see that is unique in Europe. We have also in this suite, what we call a platform at OsCodex. The name, in fact, was, in fact, react for several years and before the codex of 1 of the LLS in the U.S. And with this platform, in fact, we can do a lot of things for the clients, and we are starting, in fact, to see some results for large clients that we are pushing right now. So overall, I would say the market is there. There is no -- of course, there is a lot of, let's say, economic uncertainties in the world in Europe and of course, in France, as you can imagine. But I would say for the, let's say, IT market, we don't see an IT market that is done. I think that there is still an LC market. And we are still, I would say, a small player in this market with a lot of opportunities in front of us. Taking over the second question, Fred, regarding the refinancing opportunities, decision framework and our feeling on the market conditions. So I would like to say our ambition and our view of the direction of travel regarding capital structure is totally unchanged. Whilst we have ample cash and ample time because the first maturity is in December 2030. This is important for us to refi when there will be a good market condition, a good market window. I think you will not learn anything from my statement, which is that the market is currently not open far from it. and certainly not for the high-yield bonds, which is most likely an important for us in the future. So maybe to add to that, so meaning that despite the company working on that to be ready -- we don't think that there is any window happening in the very near future. However, ambition remains in the next 12 to 18 months to go and refine the market at reasonable conditions. Remember that the first lien refinancing in May was extremely successful. That has allowed us to reduce the overall cost of interest to reduce by 200-plus basis points. from an average of roughly 10% to an average of roughly 8%. We have taken out the prompt, which is the most expensive that was 13%, plus 4 -- now we remain with 2 enters which are cheaper. That's 5 plus 4 makes 9% for the first and a half and 1 plus 4 for the second lien. So there is no urgency. There is no agency. Where there is maybe a sense -- it's not for urgency, but let's say it's an important priority for me is to ramp up and to start really a serious ramp up of the factory. I'm aware the negotiations, the implementation, the signature of the country to start the ramp-up has been so far slow, but I'm confident that in the near month this will ramp up much faster. So that's to answer your question, Fred.

We will now take the next question from the line of Sam Morton from Invesco. .

Two questions, please, with Francois. One of them is on the factoring program. Can you talk about any teething problems that you experienced in Q3 and whether they're likely to continue in Q4 because I do think that EUR 14 million was quite with the low what we could have expected after the strong start that you made in June? And then secondly, so I look at a EUR 44 million improvement in net cash in Q3 and the guide is for a further increase in Q4, yet management decided to do no bond repurchases in Q3 and only EUR 7 million so far in Q4. And so I'm just trying to understand what does that tell us about what management thinks the debt reduction? Where does that debt reductions sit within management's priorities?

Thank you, Sam. That you allow me to clarify and give more color on this program, which indeed I just mentioned, is an important priority. So you're correct, you're reading between the lines. In Q3, we experienced some difficulties with the ramp-up of the factoring program. I cannot dwell too much into the details, but I can tell you that these problems are away and that I do not expect the similar problems in Q4 at all. Quite on the contrary, we estimate the ramp-up with further geographies and the geography already signed, will happen in the coming weeks. That's the first point regarding the slow ramp-up in Q3. The second point is regarding the bond buyback. I think we have clearly signaled that is our intention to buy more bonds on the open market. And I repeat that today, again, that is still our intention. Whilst we have signaled that, we have also made it very clear that there is a relationship with the factoring ramp-up and our source of liquidity and our source of cash to proceed with this bond buyback. So very logically, if the ramp-up of factoring has been very slow, this is the single reason for which have bought little bonds on the open market. However, of course, as soon as they have more cash from this factoring program, we will buy more bonds. As to Q4, what do you...

Francois -- sorry to come back. If you're so confident that the teething problems on the factoring program are temporary, I don't understand why you wouldn't be more active in the secondary market?

So let me clarify a couple of things. One is that we are subject to close period, whether this is for I mean the company has some limitations. So for example, our close period for Q3 has started on the fifth or seventh of October. So we have been able to buy a little bit then when we had some -- a little bit of ramp-up of the factoring program. So meaning that in the last 3 weeks, we have not been allowed, let's say, to buy bonds on the open market simply because that's regulation. Just before we publish the results we cannot operate on the open market. Now I am confident, I said exactly the same thing at the Q2 earnings call, which is that whilst I'm confident, and Philippe and myself, we repeat our guidance for the full year net change in cash. Even if you are confident in terms of, how can I say, spending the money and having the money leave the house, Well, I need first to have it before I do that. I think this is a good common sense, a prudent way of behaving. So bear with us a little bit. The bond buyback will start again as soon as we have some factoring ramp-up as I'm confident it will be.

We will now take the next question from the line ofNicolas David from ODDO BHF.

So the first 1 is on the outlook. I mean your 2020 guidance implies organic organic growth of around, let's say, flat in Q4. So how should we think about 2021 from there? I mean, does that exit rate give you more confidence in returning to positive growth next year. And more broadly, looking at the next few quarters, what are the key moving parts we should keep in mind what do you see them upside and don't see risk to the growth. The second one is on evident, I mean on the timing and sizing effects, which can -- could you give us an idea of the reversal we should expect in Q4? I mean, should we expect a similar positive impact in Q4, potentially pushing growth towards 15%, 20% range? And the last 1 is on France, on the public sector. Do you expect the activity to stabilize or potentially deteriorate ahead of the presidential election. You mentioned France potentially close to breakeven in Q4, but the color on which sector will drive that improvement will be effort.

Okay. So on the -- yes, I would say, to reach the minus -- around minus 5%, we need to be better, in fact, than Q3. So it means we need to be between 0% and minus 2%, and that's the goal. Are we going to touch the 0 -- it's too soon to say, but of course, it's our goal, let's see. I would say we will have a better view. Of course, month after month, we are just at the beginning of October. There are some contracts that we have signed that also are going live in the course of Q4. So we will see but that's the way we look at it. I would say that Q4 will be better than Q3. And of course, with this, we are confident to be around minus 5. For dividend, I don't know. Yes, of course, it will be better in Q4, you're right. There is, again, 1 component is a Vision AI and evident because, in fact, the revenue was close to 0 right now because we do a lot in Middle East with this business. So we will see there are some contracts that should start normally in Q4. And of course, that will beef up the growth versus luxury and you say we are looking at double-digit growth for Avid. I don't know if it will be 15% or 20%, as you say, but at least double digit, and I think it's possible -- for the public sector in France, it's not -- yes, I think we continue, I would say, to do a lot of things in the public sector. We are also pushing, let's say, some cyber contracts also with, I would say, with the public some entities It's, let's say, for the last 2 years, in fact, the public sector was roughly a flat plus. There is no it does not, let's say, be a big push. In fact, there we are more right now, let's say, active in the private sector than in the public sector. Publicitas big in France. Well, let's say there is no -- we don't see a lot of growth for the moment, probably in cyber because as you know, in insurance, it's a big topic for a lot of public institutions -- we have won also a big contract in defense that is not yet public, but it will come, and it is with with evident. So I would say there is some traction in the public sector, but we estimate that probably the growth will come more from the private sector than the public sector, and that's why we are pushing harder, let's say, on the private sector in France.

We will now take the next question from the line of Laurent Daure from Kepler Cheuvreux. .