CCL Industries Inc. (CCLB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

August 11, 2022

Toronto Stock Exchange CA Materials Containers and Packaging earnings 52 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

Operator

operator
#1

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to CCL Industries' Second Quarter Investor Update. [Operator Instructions] The moderator for today is Mr. Geoff Martin, President and Chief Executive Officer; and joining him is Mr. Sean Washchuk, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead, gentlemen.

Sean Washchuk

executive
#2

Good morning. This is Sean Washchuk here. I'd like to thank everyone for joining us on our second quarter investor update. We're having some challenges with the website right now. So, in order to view the slide, everyone will have to go to our website, cclind.com and go to investors, drop down menu and then to investor presentations and download our second quarter investor update presentation. And from there, I'll guide you along through our deck today. So, moving to our Slide 2, our disclaimer regarding forward-looking information. I'll remind everyone that our business faces known and unknown risks and opportunities. For further details of these key risks, please take a look at our 2021 Annual MD&A, particularly this section risks and uncertainties. You can also refer to our second quarter report for updated risks and uncertainties. Our annual and quarterly reports can be found online at the company's website, cclind.com or on sedar.com. Moving to Slide 3, our financial summary for the 3 and 6 months. For the second quarter of 2022, sales increased 14.9% with organic growth of 10.9%, acquisition-related growth of 4.8%, partially offset by almost 1% negative impact from foreign currency translation, resulting in sales of $1.62 billion compared to $1.41 billion in the second quarter of 2021. Operating income was $247.8 million for the 2022 second quarter compared to $235.5 million for the second quarter of 2021, a 6% increase, excluding the impact of foreign currency translation. Included in this figure is a $3.5 million noncash acquisition accounting adjustment to fair value inventory for the acquisition of Adelbras in the quarter. Excluding this adjustment, operating income improved 7% excluding currency translation. Geoff will expand on the segmented operating results of our CCL, Avery, Checkpoint and Innovia segments momentarily. Corporate expenses were up for the quarter, principally due to higher expense for long-term variable compensation versus the prior year quarter. Consolidated EBITDA for the 2022 second quarter, excluding the impact of foreign currency translation, increased 7.3% compared to the same period in 2021. Net finance expense was $15.4 million in the second quarter of 2022 compared to $14.1 million in the 2021 second quarter due to an increase in total debt outstanding this year versus last year. The overall effective tax rate was 24.4% for the 2022 second quarter compared to an effective rate of 25.5% recorded for the second quarter of 2021, primarily reflecting a higher portion of taxable income earned in lower tax jurisdictions as well as a U.K. tax legislation that was enacted in the second quarter of 2021 that increased the prior year tax rate. This effected tax rate may change in future periods depending on the proportion of taxable income earned in different tax jurisdictions with different rates. Net earnings for the 2022 second quarter were $163.4 million, up 8%, excluding foreign currency translation compared to the 2021 second quarter. For the 6-month period, sales increased 16%, operating income increased 5%, net earnings increased 6% compared to the 6-month period in 2021. 2022 included results from 12 acquisitions completed since January 1, 2021, delivering acquisition-related sales growth for the period of 4.7%, organic sales growth of 10.8% and foreign currency translation was a headwind of 1.7% to sales. Moving to Slide 4, our earnings per share. Basic earnings per Class B share were $0.91 for the second quarter of 2022 compared to $0.86 for the second quarter of 2021. Adjusted basic earnings per Class B share were $0.94 for the second quarter, a record -- quarterly record compared to adjusted basic earnings per Class B share of $0.89 for the second quarter of 2021. The change in adjusted EPS to $0.94 was primarily attributable to an $0.08 advance in operating income, $0.01 increase from equity contribution from our joint ventures, partially offset by $0.02 negative currency translation, $0.01 from increased finance costs, an additional $0.01 from our adjusted tax expense year-over-year. Moving to Slide 5, free cash flow from operations. For the second quarter of 2022, free cash flow from operations was $115.1 million compared to $94.7 million in the 2021 second quarter, reflecting an improvement from cash flow from operations of almost $42 million, partially offset by an increase in net capital expenditures for the comparable periods. In the 12 months ended June 30, 2022, free cash flow from operations decreased $165 million compared to the 12 months ended June 30, 2021. This decline is attributable to an increase in net working capital, coupled with an increase in net capital spending for the period. Moving to Slide 6, dollars returned to shareholders. During the second quarter, the company renewed a normal course issuer bid or a share buyback program to the buyback program that expired in May of this year. Under this new bid, the company may purchase up to 9.9% of its public float of Class B floating shares up until May 24, 2023. This is all subject to the normal restrictions of the TSX. During the first 6 months of 2022, the company repurchased almost 3.4 million shares at an average price of $58.95, for total proceeds of $200 million. Including the 14.3% increase in the 2022 annual dividend in February of this year, dividends year-to-date have amounted to $85.4 million, representing 26.7% dividend payout ratio. Moving to Slide 7, our cash and debt summary. Net debt as of June 30, 2022, was $1.76 billion, an increase of approximately $515 million compared to December 31, 2021. The increase is principally a result of new borrowings to finance the company's acquisitions during the first 6 months of this year and dollars needed to repurchase shares under the aforementioned buyback program. Although the company's net debt increased, the balance sheet closed the quarter in a strong position. Our balance sheet leverage ratio was approximately 1.47x, increasing from 1.06x at December 31, 2021. Liquidity is still robust with $634.3 million of cash on hand and USD 0.8 billion of available undrawn credit capacity on our revolving credit facilities. The company's overall finance rate was largely unchanged at approximately 2.43% at June 30, 2022, compared to 2.42% at December 31, 2021. The company's balance sheet continues to be well positioned as we move through fiscal 2022. Geoff, over to you.

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#3

Thank you, Sean, and good morning, everybody. Hope you all are managing to follow slide. Sorry about the webcast [ issue ] this morning. Now I'm on Slide 8, to kind of look at capital spending for the year so far, $190 million net in disposals, [ exactly half ] what we planned for the year, $380 million. Slide 9, highlights for the CCL segment, a very good quarter in this part of the company. 10.9% organic sales growth, largely price-led. Some -- a little bit of volume growth but largely pricing. North America up high single-digit, Europe up double-digit, Asia Pacific up mid-single digit and Latin America up more than 30%. Very strong quarter in our Home & Personal Care business and Healthcare & Specialty, offset tough comps at CCL Secure. And in CCL Design, our sales were up but profits are still impacted by lockdowns in China and soft demand in the electronics sector. Sales were up at the Food & Beverage business. The profitability gains, they were held a little bit by inflation. Slide 10 highlights our Joint Ventures. Very good quarter, an excellent quarter, in fact. So, we're pretty pleased to see that. Slide 11 highlights the results of Avery. Strong trajectory in this business continues, especially in North America, where we've seen a big recovery in name badges. Not quite yet a full recovery because we're still seeing some slowness in the convention space, but sports events and other forms of events are back to normal. Noncash acquisition accounting affected the Avery result as Sean already mentioned, to the tune of $3.5 million [indiscernible]. Raw materials inflation and elevated freight/component costs from China pass-through was successfully implemented with supply availability in this business is still challenging. Slide 12, highlights for Checkpoint. The MAS business had a tough quarter actually. We saw declines in all regions, except Latin America, but both at a very strong prior year and our profits were impacted by China freight and component inflation and lockdowns in the country, which affected our large supply farm that's based in Cana. The Apparel Labeling business on the other hand, had another exceptional quarter, exceeding expectation, 25% organic growth driven by RFID and augmented by the Uniter and Tecnoblu acquisitions. So, 1 soft story at MAS and 1 strong story at ALS. Slide 13, Innovia. 2 stories again here. Volume was up in the Americas, but down in Europe and the sales gain was largely price pass-through to inflation. The down story was really all in Europe, where we had higher-than-expected energy and freight inflation and the cost of the new line start-up in Poland, all 3 of which impacted profitability in the quarter and accounted for all the decline in the quarter. Profitability did increase in the Americas. This was held by the revaluation of inventories as resin declined and we also saw higher freight costs in North America. Slide 14, our outlook comment for the coming quarter. Final price pass-through initiatives is now being implemented to benefit the core CCL Label business where we had some lag and that will definitely benefit the second half of the year and the orders picture remains very solid. CCL Design outlook is still dependent on the chip availability recovery, especially in [indiscernible] and consumer demand holding up in the electronics space, where it's been a little bit soft recently. Recent acquisitions are additive. Comps at CCL Secure ease significantly to the second half. Avery volume should continue to improve and augmented by recent acquisitions. Checkpoint RFID growth at ALS is also expected to continue with the softer MAS picture in broad retail may well continue in the second half. We'll have to just wait and see. Innovia sales likely to decline on lower resins, so resins been dropping in the last 3 months of today's purchase prices. And we have to balance the freight and energy in Europe to match the second half of '21 profitability. We are working on both of those things. Company-wide, our China operations are back to near normal. The demand in the country overall remains soft. Okay, operator, with that, we'd like to open the call for questions.

Operator

operator
#4

[Operator Instructions] And the first question today is coming from Mark Neville from Scotiabank.

Mark Neville

analyst
#5

Maybe first, just on prices, just so I'm clear. For all the freight increases that you intend to do sort of, for now?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#6

There's a little bit of lag in a couple of parts of the businesses. So, there the 3 areas of lag you can think about, Food & Beverage in the CCL space. We've got some lagging contracts there that we can now fix. So, we'll have benefit of that in the second half. Tecnoblu MAS, the freight and component cost inflation increases going through particularly in Europe in the second half. So, we've got some energy, energy and freight transportation, [indiscernible] pick up in Europe, but they are not terribly material. I would say we passed on 85%, 90% of the inflation we've received.

Mark Neville

analyst
#7

Maybe just on the regional differences that you're seeing in the CCL segment, is that more to do with sort of rate inflation in terms of geographies and the mix?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#8

Well, the Latin American situation is really about share gain in some part of the business. So, that's one of -- is high it is. I think in Europe, it's definitely -- inflation in Europe has been running at a higher clip than it has in the U.S. So, that's probably comment about the contrast in Europe versus the U.S. for sure. And also in Asia, where it is running at a much lower curve.

Mark Neville

analyst
#9

In terms of sort of volumes and demand picture, I was just curious how that differs regionally? If there's a marked difference between sort of what you see in Europe and sort of North America and in Asia? I guess, it feels with the economic data [indiscernible]?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#10

Yes, I would say the strongest region right now for us in North America. Europe is actually in pass and Asia is actually in pass, especially in China. So, it pretty much mirrors what most of our customers are saying. The North America has held up pretty well, some bothersome data coming out of Europe and also from parts of Asia.

Mark Neville

analyst
#11

I know that's helpful. Just it gets blurred by the price. But that's super helpful. Maybe just one last one for me then. Maybe just on NCIB, I just ask on from sort of mid-50s to mid-60s. I'm just curious if you intend to be as active.

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#12

We'll have to wait and see.

Operator

operator
#13

The next question is coming from Stephen MacLeod from BMO.

Stephen MacLeod

analyst
#14

Just on the CCL segment, you had really nice EBIT performance there. And given the fact that most of the growth was from price, I would have thought you'd see a little bit of EBIT margin pressure. So, I'm just curious if you can talk about some of the drivers on EBIT in the CCL business in Q2?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#15

Well, 2 of our bigger businesses in there, HPC and Healthcare & Specialty did particularly well. And I would say, they've done particularly in North America, done probably the best job of the price pass-through. So, very little lagging inflation in those 2 parts of the businesses. So CCL Design is more of a mixed story because we recently had the impact of the chip problem. Demand was soft in automotive, demand was soft in electronics and in food and beverage, we had some contracts where we had inflation lag. And then at CCL Secure, we had a very strong EBIT quarter last year with very high margins. We had higher sales this quarter but mix was very challenging and sort of above the average for the company that -- is going to be versus last year.

Stephen MacLeod

analyst
#16

So, mostly, sounds like mostly mix and price related. On the MAS business in Checkpoint, it sounds like you expect some of the softer resale impact to continue in H2. I'm just curious, do you expect it to worsen? Is your sort of your guidance based on what you're seeing today?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#17

What we're seeing today. I mean, it's broad retail. So, we sell it to all kinds of store operators in the MAS business. So grocery, pharmacy chains, all those changes you see in the mall, but it's really broad based retail. And we're certainly seeing some slowdown in sales globally and North America, not the largest reason in that business, so -- Europe is. So, some softness in Europe and some softness in Asia, partly due to the lockdowns in China.

Stephen MacLeod

analyst
#18

And then just finally on Innovia, obviously, with revenues lowering, you're talking about sales being impacted. Would you expect the back half EBIT to be flat given what you see right now? Or are you sort of guiding to it potentially being lower at this point?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#19

I think it depends on how well we do with the energy and freight situation in Europe. That was the main problem this past quarter. I mean we still got the startup cost of the line in Poland. That wasn't terribly material but the freight and energy catch up on that, making sure we've got enough recovery on that -- in that pricing is important in the second half. If we do that, I think we'll be okay. If we don't do, we'll have a repeatable of what happened this last quarter, but we're working on it. I would expect to see some sequential improvement, maybe doing as well as we did this time last year and the squeeze inventory we're going to have, might be difficult.

Operator

operator
#20

And the next question is coming from Walter Spracklin from RBC.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#21

This is [ Louis ] on for Walter. I know we ask you this every quarter, but any change to the M&A line state? Is market volatility prompting any new sellers? Are valuations still elevated?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#22

No change.

Unknown Analyst

analyst
#23

This one is on CCL. So, organic growth in CCL Core segment has been solid and your outlook sounds optimistic. How far would you say you have visibility on demand? And any view as to sustainability beyond that direct line of sight?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#24

Well, it's a short lead time business and in large file. And you know, we have visibility for about 6 weeks. But we don't see any anecdotal change in circumstance. So, [indiscernible] is still very much focused on supply availability than anything else. So, supply chain issue is still remaining in many areas of packaging and customers are more focused on making sure they dominate when they need it. That's the biggest issue right now.

Operator

operator
#25

The next question is coming from Adam Josephson from KeyBanc.

Adam Josephson

analyst
#26

Geoff, you just, in response to the last question, you just talked about how supply chain problems are leading packaging buyers to keep their stocks up yet in the earnings release, you talked about supply chain problems easing globally. So, can you help me square those 2 things?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#27

Well, the supply chain is still relative. So, it's not as bad as it was but it's still terrible compared to how it was a year ago. So, is it better than you -- is it looking like it's improving? Yes, it is? How is it compared to a year ago, terrible? So, our key raw materials, precious raw materials technically needs to wait with 3 days to get an SKU raw material from the supplier and then you wait 6 to 8 weeks. [indiscernible] But it has some of the pain points we are experiencing, the UBM strong, particularly, obviously over with some of the pain points are easing but compared to how it was in what the last time we call it normal, is still pretty difficult.

Adam Josephson

analyst
#28

But do you see that -- I'm sorry go ahead Geoff.

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#29

No, go ahead.

Adam Josephson

analyst
#30

Do you see that easing further in the weeks and months ahead? I mean there's no other event like the [indiscernible] right? So is there anything that sticks out to you that would suggest to you that these problems will significantly further ease in short order?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#31

Well, yes, I would say, but we're certainly seeing some signs of easing. And also you're seeing that in deflation rather than inflation, resins and aluminum. And so -- and things are a little bit easier than they were. But I think paper is a big question. So, paper supply industry in the U.S. and all these conversion to box board, paper supply in the U.S. has become challenging just in general.

Adam Josephson

analyst
#32

When we look at your CCL segment organic growth and try to compare it to historical when we've been in recessionary periods, it's fluctuated anywhere from, call it, flat to up 5% to 6%. But this time, it's distorted with all the price increases related to all the inflation. How would you characterize your volume trends now compared to what you've seen in past recessions? I think you said your volume was slightly up in the second quarter and I assume you're expecting something similar in the third quarter. Can you just frame what the volume trends you experienced are compared to years past and recessions past?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#33

Well, it's a very different economic outlook compared to how it was in the last one where we had -- the last big one was the global financial crisis of '08 and '09, which was a real recession, unemployment and all the rest of it. So this time, we have a technical recession and GDP decline of 2 quarters in a row. But you still can't find people and unemployment is at record levels. So, it's an unusual -- an unusual situation. And on top of that you've got supply chain constraints that you didn't have in the last recession. So, it's very hard to read what's actually going on underneath it all. But if you look at the results of our customers, most of the sales increases that we saw were exceptions, but a lot of them were price-led rather than volume-led. So, we look at that quite closely and following quite closely. And the outlook is probably like it's been this quarter. Could be a little bit of volume growth, yes, but not much.

Adam Josephson

analyst
#34

And on the price pass-through initiatives that you talked about earlier, how much inflation did you actually recover in your CCL business in the first half? Just trying to understand how much more growth one should reasonably expect year-over-year in profitability given whatever additional price recovery you will have had along with all the other benefits, the easier comps in CCL Secure, the acquisitions in CCL Design, et cetera?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#35

It's very hard to measure -- to measure that in the label business, because it's millions of transactions with all shapes and sizes. So, you can only really intuitively guess, really Adam. So, it's very, very hard to answer that numerically. All I can say is volume is up slightly in the last quarter and we got healthy volume situation unlikely to change for the second half of the year.

Adam Josephson

analyst
#36

But for the -- presumably, the price cost relationship will be more favorable in the second half than it was in the first half?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#37

Yes, yes. But don't forget, we got a little pass-through arrangements and the things that are really dropping like aluminum will be passed on pretty much real time. So, it's kind of a loss on the bottom line really.

Adam Josephson

analyst
#38

And just one last one, Geoff, on RFID. Can you talk about what -- from your seat, what the penetration is in apparel and other markets compared to what it was, say, a year ago? And has your thinking or outlook changed with respect to the long-term opportunity you have in RFID?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#39

Well, most of us like everybody in the industry today are in apparel. And apparel has been -- is the 100-pound gorilla in the room of RFID and it's still continuing to grow. And the technology is still continuing to develop. So, the full factor of RFID is also beginning to change. So, not just the rollout of RFID, it's the form factor that's using. So more use of [indiscernible] specifically. And so we still think we are in the early to mid-stages of RFID growth and I haven't seen a lot of change in that comment since last quarter. We are getting quite excited about opportunities outside of apparel, but they're all in niches and there's lots of them. So, the challenge there is to finding out, making sure you've got the last mile of the business development and sales and marketing activities and the products properly priced to make a real profit in that part of the business. But we are excited about it.

Operator

operator
#40

And the next question is coming from Ahmed Abdullah from National Bank of Canada.

Ahmed Abdullah

analyst
#41

You managed to deliver strong result of about 11% organic growth in the first and second quarters of this year. Given where you stand and all the moving pieces and how passes have gone and inflationary pressures, can you be thinking about a similar level of organic growth in the back half of the year?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#42

We have to wait and see. I mean we've got some resin and aluminum are both dropping quite significantly. So we definitely won't see the same rate of growth in -- at Innovia in the second half of the year because resins are dropping. And where we've got pass-through arrangements like in our aluminum can business, this also have been dropping, we're going to see impacts there. So, the bottom answer is no, I don't think we'll see the same rate of organic growth because I don't think we'll have as much inflation in the second half. What the number will be, I wouldn't like to say it.

Ahmed Abdullah

analyst
#43

And at Avery, you highlighted that you saw a bit of pull forward as the back-to-school season is on earlier than usual start this year. Can you perhaps quantify how much of a pull forward that may have been? I mean will we still see a bigger third quarter in the year for this segment?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#44

Well, typically, the big month is the big month for the back-to-school shipments is July, but this year, it was in June. The pull forward was really from June into May. So, first time, I'm going to remember back-to-school shipments beginning in May. So, they started in May, accelerated in June, July was below what it was for July last year. So, we're expecting to see some pickup in August because the reorders are much more organized this year. The retail industry had a calamities back-to-school industry last year in all retail. So, retail, they're much better organized this year. So over the season, if we look at it over the season, we're expecting sales to be up. But I think there'll be more in Q2 this year than was this time last year and less in Q3 than this time last year.

Ahmed Abdullah

analyst
#45

And on the Innovia, the sales decline, given the lower resin prices, are you thinking more sequentially or versus last year as well?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#46

Sequentially.

Ahmed Abdullah

analyst
#47

Sequentially. Okay.

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#48

I think the outlook is last year but we'll have to wait and see.

Operator

operator
#49

The next question is coming from Michael Glen from Raymond James.

Michael Glen

analyst
#50

Just to start, if we're looking at CCL Design and we're thinking of the automotive business there, can you give some sense as to how much below trend or how much opportunity for upside there might exist there?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#51

Well, it's about 300 -- little over $300 million in sales. The [indiscernible] added a fair chunk to it. And it's still difficult in automotive. So, there's still got lots of problems with OEMs, rescheduling production, past availability. So, that's the big challenge in automotive. And it's disrupting our operations everywhere, particularly in the U.S. and not very big in China, but particularly in the U.S. Europe seems to be better. So, Europe is performing better than North America. That's probably the best color I can give you.

Michael Glen

analyst
#52

And is the bigger exposure for that business overall, is it in -- it's in North America versus Europe?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#53

Well, no, we have the [indiscernible]. No, no, Europe is the biggest in automotive.

Michael Glen

analyst
#54

And then for the MAS, there's -- the stories we read about increase -- you talked about the grocery and the pharma broad exposure and then we read stories about increased use of security products by expanding line of items. Are you seeing any of that come through in your results?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#55

We see that in the CCL space not in, not in Checkpoint or MAS. If a pharmaceutical company wants to use RFID, those revenues would appear in the CCL segment on the Checkpoint.

Michael Glen

analyst
#56

By putting -- like we read these articles about people putting security products around meat and stuff like that. Are you...

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#57

It's certainly around RFID, it's not really around security. It's really around RFID, around tracking of inventory. And we're doing some of that in Checkpoint in Europe. So, we're doing in-store. So, in-store fresh meat is one of the new applications, new potential applications for RFID. We're seeing we have a lot of traction at that at Checkpoint in the pilot stage.

Michael Glen

analyst
#58

And then are you able to isolate out -- there was a bunch of M&A, how much M&A contributed to the EBITDA in the quarter, are you able to isolate that out?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#59

No.

Operator

operator
#60

The next question is coming from Daryl Young from TD Securities.

Daryl Young

analyst
#61

First question is just around potential for trade down as a private label products. We're starting to hear, I would call it an acceleration of companies talking about other [indiscernible] consumers stretched and trading down. I'm just curious if that starts to percolate into your order book yet? Or it's still the supply chain driving ordering volumes?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#62

Yes. We don't see a lot of that in the space we are in the CCL business Daryl and the home personal care sector is area where we see it in a recessionary environment is less use of salons, so professional products, which is a premium product. People tend to buy a professional grade sample shampoo at Walmart rather than go to [indiscernible] paper there. We see a little bit of that, it's not very material. And in the food and beverage space, we don't see a lot of that. And so private label is not very big for us. The categories that we're in, in the CCL space are not really vulnerable to private label attack.

Daryl Young

analyst
#63

And then you've called out both paper and aluminum as being big costs and potentially some easing there. I guess the Street....

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#64

There was a supply problem, not a cost problem. I think it was a supply problem.

Daryl Young

analyst
#65

Okay, sure. But when you layer on freight as well on potential for, let's call it, over the medium term, some softening there as well. Does that put a pretty big headwind for the revenue line and the organic growth trends as we look out, say, 12 months from now?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#66

No. Freight is really only a factor in Europe for us because in the United States, most of our customers pay for the freight themselves and organize the freight themselves. So, it's not a big factor in North America for us. It is in Europe, so they've has effect in Europe particularly and in Asia and North America because we trans-ship from Mexico into United States and pay for that. So, I wouldn't say freight is a material -- materializing to the revenue line. So, the revenue line is going to be driven by what's going on in the resin market and what's going on in aluminum. Both of which are dropping quite -- well, in aluminum's case it's dropped 25% in 3 months.

Daryl Young

analyst
#67

And then just one last one on CCL Design in the electronics market, there is some talk of lower PC sales. I guess, the mix within CCL Design between the consumer electronics, how big of an exposure concern would that be? Or are you seeing any of that with your clients?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#68

Well, they're all large customers of ours, all the big names in that space and the PC industry had a big boom in the pandemic and now has soft sales but the global predictions are that the PC market will drop 10% this year, cloud computing is also on the away. So, we expecting that we have to contend with that in the second half. But we've got some new programs in some other parts of CCL Design that are quite a big offset, so we have to wait and see how that all unfolds.

Operator

operator
#69

The next question is coming from David McFadgen from Cormark Securities.

David McFadgen

analyst
#70

A couple of questions. First of all, on the MAS business, I was wondering the price through the results that you recorded in the second quarter. And is it kind of indicative of just the general macroeconomic slowdown and so you are seeing that show up in retail?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#71

Yes. I would say so because it is broad-based. And if you saw where it happened, most pronounced in Asia. So, the lockdowns in China had a little bit of factoring that. The next region that was most impacted was Europe, which is probably not a surprise and the region that was least impacted was North America, which was down only low single-digits and Latin America was up. So, regional color was a big factor. And our largest business in MAS is in Europe and Asia and North America is a smaller part of that segment.

David McFadgen

analyst
#72

So would appear based on your Q2 results that the business seems most impacted by a slow macroeconomic environment is Checkpoint and MAS. So it that correct? And that's the business that's pretty resilient despite maybe a slowing macroeconomic environment?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#73

I think that's a fair statement, yes.

David McFadgen

analyst
#74

And then can you remind us about the size of the MAS business in revenue?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#75

It's about $400 million.

David McFadgen

analyst
#76

And then lastly, just on inflation, it seems like you're nearing the end of the pass-through. So, it's a correct way to interpret that, that inflation is and be slowing down and you're seeing that show up in [ year ] numbers?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#77

We're definitely seeing inflation easing in the direct commodity space. So, resin is going down, aluminum is going down. [indiscernible] is going down. So, we haven't seen that transfer into -- when the commodity gets converted into intermediary material. We haven't seen any deflation of any significant so far. But if it does eventually flow through. So, if resins drop and film prices go down, laminate prices from raw material suppliers go down, it's how it is. But I would characterize it as easing at the moment rather than deflation. The only where we see real deflation is in resins and aluminum. Resins is mainly for Innovia and aluminum is for our container business, which is [ $250 million ] in sales. So, out of the total company, it's not big of an impact.

Operator

operator
#78

The next question is coming from Ben Jekic from PI Financial.

Ben Jekic

analyst
#79

Geoff, I just have a quick question on MAS just to make sure I understand fully. So, you had an operating margin that was the lowest in the last 8 quarters. Is it demand-driven? Or is the impact of the freight and component inflation or both and in what duration?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#80

Both.

Ben Jekic

analyst
#81

And if I look at your outlook, it seems like that dynamic is still going to persist in the second half? Is there -- should we be thinking of a similar margin as in 2Q or at least directionally a little bit higher?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#82

We'll have to wait and see.

Operator

operator
#83

The next question is a follow-up coming from Mark Neville from Scotiabank.

Mark Neville

analyst
#84

Just curious to talk about sort of energy and freight costs in Europe. So, your success of what you're doing if you're pushing surcharges through. And I'm also curious about maybe is there any risk or if your businesses are reliance on natural gas from Russia? If you're taking some measures to -- just how you're dealing with whole situation?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#85

Yes. Well, the energy intensive business we have in Europe is Innovia and the plant, the main supply plant for that business is in the U.K. So, we're not -- I mean, we do have a small operation in Germany, that's not very big. But the main supply plant is in the U.K. So, the freight transportation has been, the fact that it's in the U.K. has been a significant fact like most of those revenues are on the [indiscernible]. And U.K. energy prices have been rampant and -- so that's also been a factor. We are implementing surcharges and there is some lag in that and we've got some in improvement over Q1. I think we'll see some sequential improvement in Q3 and Q4, again too, so that's, certainly very much top of mind at the moment.

Operator

operator
#86

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] We have follow-up coming from Adam Josephson from KeyBanc.

Adam Josephson

analyst
#87

Just one more question on the label demand issue. On the last call, you talked about how it wasn't clear to you how much of the demand was related to your customers, just keeping access to fly on hand versus real end demand. Is it any more clear to you now than it was 3 months ago?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#88

Not really. I think if you look at the impact of packaging and the gross margin of our customers, it's pretty immaterial. So, particularly when you talk about label, so no one's going to run risk of supply availability in light of supply in a situation like it. So if your job is to buy labels for the XYZ, [ CPG ] company, and there is a huge plant somewhere selling whatever brand it is, and there's no label you're going to seek to do pretty much straight away. So, there's a lot of people taking supply risk out of the equation, making sure there is no availability of label is not a problem. And so we're seeing demand levels that don't really gel with the volume in results of our customers, particularly in North America. In Europe and Asia, it's more matched to customers. In North America, where retail is bigger and supply chain is more businesses are bigger. We're seeing some portion in the behavior of big CPGs to make sure they have what they want.

Adam Josephson

analyst
#89

So you have no good way of knowing it seems like if your customers intersect have excess inventory that eventually they're going to have to work off?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#90

Well, we don't always work it off. Sometimes, we may just trade away because label chop and change all the time too. So, labels are economically immaterial to us. So, just at the moment, there's so much caution on the supply availability. People are just buying if you need 1 million, buy 2 million. You can do that. But then take up space. And there's a lot of caution being taken to make sure the customers make sure they have what they want and when they need it.

Adam Josephson

analyst
#91

I guess for all you know they could keep buying more than the need for months, if not quarters to come. It's just -- there's no...

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#92

It tends not to happen in things if they could have space. So, cheese business and household business, that wouldn't happen, although we also have long lead times there beyond what we feel more we would expect to see given the current conditions of with our large big CPGs report, 1% volume growth, and we see 10% or 15%, something told you about that doesn't gel.

Adam Josephson

analyst
#93

And this has been going on for how long, this seeming disconnect between the volumes they're reporting and their order?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#94

Since the supply chain issues really started probably a year old now, it's going on for about a year. The signs of it easing a little bit and this time but only a little. So, we'll have to wait and see.

Adam Josephson

analyst
#95

And why do you suppose that's a North American phenomenon and not also happening elsewhere?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#96

Well, you got space here.

Adam Josephson

analyst
#97

It's a good point.

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#98

You've got much more space in Europe and -- it's a much more congested part of the world and out of Asia. So, the U.S., has always got warehouse space available to put stuff, also in Germany.

Adam Josephson

analyst
#99

Just 2 other things on M&A multiples. I mean, you talked about, I think, the private market multiples for label companies having been quite high in recent years. Have you seen any changes along those lines recently? What are you -- how would you characterize multiples these days and how attractive or unattractive they might be to you?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#100

Well, I think they're still elevated, but we are seeing signs of transactions being entailed by the financing market. So, that's easily the first indicator that things are going to change. So, we've seen some public to private transactions go slightly payer shape in the financing of those, deals still went through, but the financing was very difficult. But that's the first sign you tend to see and we've seen early evidence of that.

Adam Josephson

analyst
#101

And just one last one on your exposure to ocean freight, have you -- in terms of the supply chain easing, but staying pretty bad on a -- from a historical perspective, any observations on the ocean freight to the extent you're relying on that?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#102

Well, we're on it with Avery, so importation of rings supplied in North America, in particular, so that's a big factor and Checkpoint is we make everything we make in Checkpoint is made in countries and places where we ship buy in ocean freight in a container. So, that's also a big part. The rant with the inflation has stopped, but the pricing levels are still highly elevated compared to historical norms.

Adam Josephson

analyst
#103

And is that because of the port congestion that continues from the best you think about?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#104

Anything. Just China lockdowns, just one thing after another, port congestion in the U.S.

Operator

operator
#105

And we have another follow up coming from Mark Neville from Scotiabank.

Mark Neville

analyst
#106

Maybe just a follow-up on Adam's question just in terms of the inventory situation. I don't know if you have a sort a historic comparison to this, but if they are building inventory and it gets to a point where overstock, do they -- is this inventory become obsolete or is it something you work through? You touched on it earlier but I guess just a little more color if you could?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#107

Labels do tend to obsolete pretty quick. So if you overall, the rate of obsolescence typically goes up. Again, designs change all the time, regulatory comments have to be added into the label graphics. So, there's a fair amount of obsolescence can occur when people over order.

Mark Neville

analyst
#108

It doesn't sound like the risk? Is that material risk?

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#109

No, I don't think it's material. I just think that -- I think what will happen, Mark, is when is demand -- once the supply chain issues go, people will be less conservative in the supply chain risk taking than they are today.

Operator

operator
#110

Thank you. There are no other questions from the line at this time. I would now like to hand the call back to Geoff Martin for closing.

Geoffrey Martin

executive
#111

Okay, everybody, well, thank you very much for joining our call today. We look forward to seeing you next quarter. Thank you very much.

Operator

operator
#112

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at the time. Have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.

Read the full transcript via the API

You're viewing the first half of this call. Get the complete CCL Industries Inc. transcript — plus 251,000+ transcripts from 12,000+ companies, speaker segments, AI summaries and full-text search — through the EarningsCalls.dev API.

Get the API View API docs →

This call discussed

For developers and AI pipelines

Programmatic access to CCL Industries Inc. earnings transcripts and 251,000+ others is available through the EarningsCalls.dev REST API. Plans from $24.99/month — full transcripts, speaker segments, full-text search, and the recently-added /api/v1/transcripts/recent polling endpoint for ETL pipelines.