Cemindia Projects Limited (509496) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Edwin, moderator for the conference call. Welcome to ITD Cementation India Limited Q2 FY '24 Results Conference Call, hosted by ICICI Securities Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note, this conference is recorded. I would now like to hand over the floor to Mr. Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Yes. Thank you, Edwin. Good evening. On behalf of ICICI Securities, I welcome you all to the Q2 FY '24 Earnings Call of ITD Cementation India Limited. Today, we are pleased to host the senior management of the company, which is represented by Mr. Jayanta Basu, Managing Director; Mr. Prasad Patwardhan, CFO of the company. Without much delay, I'll now hand over the call to Mr. Patwardhan for his opening remarks, which will be followed by Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Mohit. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on this Q2 FY '24 earnings call. We declared our results for the second quarter yesterday, and I'm sure you have had a chance to go through our numbers. Before we begin the discussion, I would like to mention that during the course of this call, there could be some forward-looking statements that will be made. These are subject to risks, and the actual results are likely to differ materially from these statements. So I would like to keep -- request you to keep this in mind. I will start with the financial performance of the company, and then hand over to Mr. Basu for his views on the operational performance, and then we'll take your calls. We have had -- we have reported a robust performance in this quarter, with an operating income of INR 1,610 crores as against INR 1,035 crores, a growth of 56% on a Y-o-Y basis. EBITDA at INR 172 crores has grown by about 78% on a year-on-year basis. And profit after tax at INR 54 crores as against INR 20 crores, which represents an increase of about 168%. Our balance sheet continues to be leverage much less, and our debt equity ratio -- net debt to equity is about 0.34x. Our order book stands at about 22,000 -- a little over INR 22,000 crores as of Q2 end. And the new orders that we have secured during the quarter are worth about INR 4,600 crores. That is all from my side to start with. I'll now hand over to Mr. Basu for his opening comments.

Thank you, Prasad. Good evening, all of you for joining this con call. Happy to say that we have seen another one good quarter in terms of the profitability and even the revenue as well. Normally, this was monsoon quarter, so revenue is a little less than the first quarter, but still much better than last year. The numbers are all available with you, so I don't have to talk much on that. But if we -- if you like, I may mention that EBITDA is around INR 125 crores on consol, a revenue of INR 1,616 crores, which was up more than 10%. PAT INR 54 crores, 3.3% of the revenue. And in the last 6 months, that is Q1 and Q2, we have achieved around INR 3,500 crores of revenue. You have to consider that Q2 was due to monsoon the revenue was little less. So normally, Q3 and Q4 we can expect better revenue than Q1 and Q2. Say last year our Q1, Q2 revenue was INR 2,000 crores, and Q2, Q3 was INR 3,000 crores. That's for information. Our cash position also in good. Collection and outflow, we are able to manage properly. You may like to know progress and status of [ few major ] jobs, which I'll share with you like underground to metros. We have I mean Bangalore metro, Chennai running job, Calcutta and Mumbai is almost verge of completion. Bangalore metro substantial progress has been done. Around 80% of the job has been completed. Chennai around 20%-plus progress we have done. And good thing about Chennai is that in one of the package, as you know, we have got two packages there. Already we have launched our tunnel boring machine, and the tunnel boring has already started from the Marina beach side. For roads, Ganga Expressway from the inception we have so far achieved around INR 900 crore revenue during last months, 7, 8 months. Yes, monsoon has affected last quarter. So around 18% to [ 25% ] revenue progress we have achieved in a very small duration of time. The earthwork is the main item there, almost 40% of the earthwork has been completed. We have our plan -- and going on pretty well as per the planned progress. I also like to mention here that one bridge over the Ganga bridge -- Ganga river and Allahabad, we have completed all the foundation and infrastructure. So this has gone very well. In Marine work, Udangudi, except the finishing item, which is commissioning of the crane, which has to come from overseas. All the civil work has been completed, a remarkable project in terms of the challenge and volume. Colombo overseas job is going pretty well. You must have seen some news yesterday or day before yesterday about the promoter's view and the support they are getting from the financial institutions and we are there very much and progress is as per the schedule. Vizhinjam breakwater, another one marine job, very challenging. And happy to say that the job is almost getting completed this -- at the end of this year. So with that, there are a few other jobs like in building, we have airports at Trichy and Pune almost completed. At Delhi, Kasturba Nagar, after 2 years the job has started few months back. So now it has picked up. We have started also the Army Headquarter at Delhi. We have achieved the first milestone as per the schedule and few other building jobs also going okay. So with this, as you can see that we have got INR 22,000 crores of work in hand, and Marine has again come to the top around 35.3% of the share of the work. We have got few jobs in pipeline. One of the jobs L1 in Vizag that is for the ship repairing facility for Hindustan Shipyard. We are discussing with the customer and we are also pursuing few overseas jobs as well. So with this, I'll stop and I request to have questions. We are ready to answer whatever you ask. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Nikhil Abhyankar from ICICI Securities.

You reported very strong robust execution growth in the H1 itself. And also the margins are already above 9% in H1. So will you be revising your guidance for FY '23?

Based on which guidance you're talking?

Full year.

Revenue, EBITDA and order inflow, sir.

I think we'll maintain the same, which is around INR 7,000 crores plus in the top line. And we hope that EBITDA will be just 10% above at the end of the year.

And sir order inflow pipeline -- order inflow, sir?

Order so far, we have secured close to INR 5,000 crores, INR 4,800 crores. And as we said that few jobs we have -- one job L1 and there are some prospects. So hopefully, end of the year, it will be around INR 8,000 crores, INR 8,000 crores plus total order inflow in this year.

Okay. And sir, what is the quantum of L1 order that you're setting in?

Sorry, can you come again?

What is the value of the L1 order?

L1 order is about INR 650 crores.

INR 650 crores. Sir, now moving to order inflow in H2. So where are the opportunities? What are the opportunities that you are looking at? And that is it first.

The opportunity we have few marine job in Bangladesh. The tenders are now under preparation and hopefully by end of this year, we'll be able to submit our bid. And few marine job already have quoted for JSW and [indiscernible] Adani as well. We are pursuing some job in Odisha for a big port -- new port being developed. We have also some hydroelectric job pursuing at Karnataka. And there are jobs from ArcelorMittal in Hazira. So a mix of various segment, like marine, building and the metros. Altogether, I think around INR 13,000 or INR 14,000 crores of job is under the pipeline now.

Okay. And sir, just a final question. On storage and hydro projects are getting a lot of traction and lot of companies are announcing their plans. So are we thinking of developing any capabilities in this segment?

Actually, we are in this segment. We have done a few very challenging jobs in this segment before. In Meghalaya, we have done. And we are also pursuing a similar kind of job now. So yes, we are there, very much there.

Sir, are we in discussion with any of the IPPs or developers?

Yes, we are discussing. Yes.

Next question comes from Bajrang Bafna from Sunidhi Securities.

Congratulations for a good set of numbers. So my first question pertains to the average execution of the existing order book. We are sitting on, let's say, INR 22,000 crores of order book. And we have a visibility of, let's say, another INR 3,000 to INR 4,000 crores to flow during this financial year, in the second half. So considering what could be the average execution cycle? And what sort of growth on this base of INR 7,000 crores, execution this year, we can expect for, let's say, FY '25 or '26? Some strategy or the guidance or the thought process of the management will be really appreciated. And sir, my second question is the visibility on the -- like you are looking more and more towards -- slightly the project where margins are high and the competition is low, like marine and some complex jobs there, which is not the business of other companies where you can earn better margins. So the trajectory maybe next 2 to 3 years perspective, where we can move from, let's say, this 10% to -- maybe towards 12%, 13%. Is it something which the management is thinking from next 2, 3 year's perspective? So that's the second question from my side. And some sense on the improvement in the working capital cycle and probably how we are looking at and -- some context on that will be appreciated. That's all from my side.

Okay. I think many things in one question, good. So I'll try to address one by one. This year, the revenue so far, we have done around INR 3,500 crores. So the quarter 3 and quarter 4 will be definitely a little bit more than that. So hopefully INR 7,000 crore plus. I mean, we'll definitely achieve. Going forward to next year, we can think about around 20%, 25% growth in top line. Because work in hand, what we have now, they are fairly big. Like Ganga Expressway as you know INR 5,000 crore and a project for Navy -- that project worths about INR 3,200 crores. Bangalore metro put together -- I mean Chennai metro INR 4,000 crores. So big ticket jobs. So revenue wise we should be able to achieve around 25% more than this year. Regarding further from next year onwards, our focus will remain for the bigger jobs. The idea is to do less number of projects, but these projects should be bigger, bigger in the sense INR 1,000 crores, INR 2,000 crores in that range. And that gives us a lot of leverage to work properly and efficiently that we have seen. That is why we are also targeting jobs, which has got turnkey sort of things, like electromechanical, crane and many other things, not only civil. And our focus also will remain on the green energy because a lot of emphasis being given by the government and some private sectors on green energy, on the hydrogen. So big plants are being set up by the local entrepreneurs. They are focusing on that. We're also focusing neighboring countries for the marine work at least, and there are some inquiries, which are quite encouraging. So that is what I can say about the execution for next 1 or 2 years. Regarding working capital, I would like to -- Prasad, if you can address that.

Yes. In fact, there is a lot of efficiency that we are reporting on our working capital cycle as well. Net working capital is today less than 90 days. While there are obviously opportunities to improve the working capital cycle, I don't think there is a significant improvement possible beyond this level. So 80, 85 days I think is a very robust and healthy net working capital cycle, but our endeavor will be to, wherever possible to improve the cycle further.

Okay. And just one sense that we want to get now. Most of the players who are there in the industry, in the infrastructure side, they are struggling to get BG limits at the right costing. Like we were even hearing that a lot of in 2% or maybe 2.5% kind of the BG cost for getting those lines from the banking channel. So what is the interest rate that we are paying on BG currently? And some sense on that because it is a major portion of our interest cost as well. So some guidance on that will be really helpful.

I mean the guarantee commission that we pay generally varies from 0.7%, 0.8%, and it depends on the value and the tenor of the bank guarantee. So -- especially for guarantees that we provide in foreign countries where there is more than one bank involved, the bank guarantee commission would tend to be a bit higher. But it's in the range of about, say, 1% or thereabouts -- 0.8% to 1% or thereabouts.

Okay. And I think this is a very competitive rate because of late whenever we are meeting with lot of companies, they're all struggling for getting the BG limits at the right costing. So this is really challenging and it is really heartening to know that we are getting most competitive rate in the industry at least for this BG is concerned.

Next question comes from Pratik Kothari from Unique PMS.

Sir, congratulations on a very strong execution. Sir, my first question, I mean, we're currently already at about INR 7,000 crores, INR 7,500 crores run rate, we'll be at INR 10,000 crores very soon. So if you can talk about internally what are we doing? Or how are we preparing to execute and scale? This is something which we have not obviously done in the past. So how is our preparation going internally?

Well, we are seriously concerned about our internal capability. If I can define and address one by one, first of all, technical capability, that's not an issue because we have got experienced people. And through experience, they are quite knowledgeable in the business what we are. We have built up some new team for the overseas. So what we are doing now, we have already worked in Myanmar. We are working in Colombo. We are working in Bangladesh. So there is a core team. So we trying to invest some more team with the existing core team. So by another 6, 7 months' time they become trained. The most important part is the support system because we have to support the execution from logistic, from finance and from -- whatever you say. So those areas we are strengthening and -- so -- and the plant machinery is not a problem because nowadays you get the required plant machinery. Either you can buy it or you can hire it. Those things are pretty available. So where we stuck up mostly is the bottom line -- bottom force, the labor force, workmen. And that is a common problem for all the companies in our industry. So we are trying to migrate from most of the manual work to the mechanical work. That is one area. And second area how to educate this labor force? How to keep them? How to continue them in our company? What sort of initiative we should take? We are really focusing on that. So these are some of the area -- I mean, I think we are doing to increase our capability.

Correct. Fair enough. And sir, earlier I think we had planned for about INR 150 crores, INR 200 crores of CapEx this year. And I think you have already done INR 240 crores in first half itself. So any change in plans? Are you accelerating something for the execution coming up here? If you can highlight there.

Yes. I think the CapEx was more this -- last year or so because of -- we have to invest a lot in the trench cutter and tunnel boring machine for the metros [indiscernible] secured. But going forward, we don't expect that much of CapEx will be involved because whatever we have already, that can be used for the next project. And for the marine, we already have our adequate plant and machinery. There will be some, but not to this extent.

Okay. Sir, a large part of whatever investments we have to make for next -- taking into account next 18 months, 24 months, we have already done that and it will only be minor going forward?

Exactly. That is the -- except Bangladesh project, which is already -- we have secured and there we will be -- it is not CapEx basically. We have to rent some big machinery for a duration of 6 to 7 months' time. So otherwise, a large amount of CapEx what we have invested already that will yield our result, we don't expect much investment now.

Correct. Fair enough. And sir in one of the previous participant's answer, you did mention that now our focus would be to do less number of jobs, but do very large INR 1,000 crores plus. Is it also fair to assume that the competition in that segment is lower than usually what we see at the lower order like INR 200 crores, INR 300 crores, INR 500 crores order?

Exactly. If you see -- now if you have an airport tender and the value is INR 300 crores, INR 400 crores, you will find 10 participants there. But in the same airport terminal building, if it is costing INR 2,000 crores it hardly boils down to 3 or 4 participants. In that way also -- and good for us that we are able to get qualified ourselves because of whatever work we have done. So definitely, the biggest the bid, the competition is less.

Correct. And so my last question to Prasad sir. One, if you can highlight any further provisions, which we have made this quarter? And also in a stand-alone cash flow, we see this INR 9 crores of loss from some unincorporated entity. If you can highlight what is that regarding?

No, we haven't done. This is -- what we would have done is a normal expected credit loss provision. So there is nothing really any additional provisions that we have carried out in this quarter.

Correct. And the loss from unincorporated entity?

No that is something that we had done in Q1. I don't think we have done anything in Q2 right now. So maybe you're looking at the 6-month balance sheet or the cash flow, there it will get reflected because it is for the half year and not for this quarter, in particular.

Next question comes from Siddharth Shah from MK Ventures.

Congratulations on great set of numbers. Sir, in your opening remarks, you mentioned that second half is normally much higher than the first half. For example, last year, you did INR 3,000 crores in second half and INR 2,000 crores in first half, so 60-40 type of ratio. So sir, how does it -- but the current year guidance is still around INR 7,000 crores. And you've already done INR 3,500 crores in first half. And also all the projects are taking off well. So just to understand, is this quite conservative? Or this is what is practically possible or what is? So some comments on this would be very helpful, sir.

Yes, I think you have rightly picked up the comments that I made. That was -- I want to emphasize that whatever guidelines we have given that we definitely will try to achieve that. And we definitely try to achieve more. But sometimes those numbers also it varies year by year. It may not be same this year. Last year, 50% more and maybe this year little bit less from that. So what I'm trying to emphasize, the INR 7,000 crores plus will be -- definitely will be achieved this year.

Sure, sir. That's helpful. And the second question is a similar question to one of the previous participants, that going forward -- no, all this provisioning of Bangalore project and all has been taken. So from next year onwards, what kind of margins are you guys internally working on? Is 12%, 13% margin possible in the next 2, 3 years? Or we should kind of expect 10-plus kind of margin going forward?

Yes. I feel so far till a few quarters back, our margin used to be around 8% to 9%, 8.5% EBITDA. We have come to close to 10% now. So beyond that, if you have to do, one, you have to really get the job in a better price. So we have to be in the competition also. So yes, 10% plus and how much you can go beyond that has to be seen based on the nature of job, at what price we are getting the job, what is the competition, et cetera, et cetera.

Sure, sir. And sir, last question is on the debt part. If you can just highlight what is the net debt of the company now, as on date or as of September end?

Net debt of the company as of September end is about INR 460 crores.

Next question comes from [ Laha Nirvana ] from [ Laha Professional Investor ].

Sir, I wanted to understand, because general elections will be there in Q1 of next financial year. So just like in the road sector there is usually some slowdown. In our line of business, do you anticipate any kind of execution slowdown?

Not really. I think -- because of election -- prior to election, there will be a lot of pressure to do more work. So because of election, I don't see that, that will affect our work.

No it may impact new tenders or new projects, which come up for tendering. But the orders that we have already received or have been awarded to us, we don't expect any slowdown in the execution of the projects that we have on hand.

Okay. And for orders also, sir, do you anticipate a slowdown? And if you do, then do you expect it to be a transient phenomenon, which will get normalized in -- from quarter 2, quarter 3 onwards next year?

Generally, there may be a little bit of -- I'm not saying there definitely will be a slowdown, but there could be a little bit of slowdown or postponement in some of the tenders, which come up for bidding. But that will obviously be a temporary phenomenon. Once the elections are through, I mean, the focus on infrastructure would remain and I don't think it is going to impact the industry in the long run.

Okay. All right, sir. And in Sikkim recently there was a cloud burst and a flood, which caused a lot of destruction. So we are doing those tunnel project in Rangpo. So was there any impact on our project or is there going to be any impact in future?

No [indiscernible] there was no damage to -- for any structure or any sort of -- I mean problem we faced. The only thing that few days, the work has stopped, and that too only 3, 4 days. So we are able to manage. I don't see that there is an issue with that.

Okay. That is very nice to hear, sir. And on cash flows and debt, so we have done a lot of CapEx, that was already discussed. Now I noticed that our operating cash flows are quite healthy in half year. So I think going forward also, we can hope to generate this kind of operating cash flow. So are we planning to become net debt-free anytime soon, Prasad sir.

No, I don't think we'll be able to be debt-free at least in this financial year or the next financial year. This business is working capital intensive to some extent. So while we are trying to manage or ensure that the debt doesn't go out of hand in our balance sheet, I really don't see us becoming net debt-free in this financial year or the next financial year.

Okay, sir. In that case, can you help me understand the interest rate trajectory. So I think you have short-term working capital loans, long-term loans and the non-fund-based limits that you take. So can you guide the interest rate that we should assume for this so that we can sort of estimate the interest cost that will come?

Well, I can indicate the interest rates that are being charged to us presently. Going forward, we'll have to see, it depends on many factors. So for our working capital debt the interest rate would vary typically from 9%, 9.5% to maybe 10.5% or 11%. For term debt the interest rates are still lower than that maybe in higher single digits.

Okay. And for our BG limit, you said maximum 1%?

It's around 1%. It typically depends on the bank, which we are dealing with, the tenor of the bank guarantee, the location where it is issued. So there are multiple factors which influence the charges that we pay. But it's around 1%, maybe sometimes a little higher than 1% or many times lower than 1% as well.

Okay. All right. And final question from my side is that the CapEx that we have done INR 238 crores. Can you help me understand towards what this CapEx has gone towards? Because I'm not very familiar with the kind of machinery that you're using. Sir, it will be very helpful if you can outline like what are the kind of machines there -- we have bought with this? And why a buy decision versus a leasing decision? So some color on that, so that we understand better.

Look, Chennai Metro, we had to do a construction called diaphragm wall, which is vertical wall below the ground, which goes around 30, 35 meters. And in most of the cases, you have to do the wall through soil. So -- but typically, in Chennai Metro, it is rock. In rock, whenever you try to do such work, you require a special machine which is called trench cutter, hardly we had in India before. So we had to have nine trench cutter mobilized. And to answer your second question, out of that four we have buy -- bought and five is buyback or rental sort of things. So...

So what is the cost, sir, for each machine?

It will be varied around INR 40 crores plus minus, each machine.

Per machine.

And supporting the trench cutter, there are some other small equipment. And we bought few piling rig as well. And another one the important thing is the TBM, tunnel boring machine. We bought one tunnel boring machine for the Chennai metro. So tunnel boring machine, trench cutter and few piling rigs. These are the equipment we have purchased out of the CapEx.

That's helpful. Sir, finally two questions. Follow-up on the 4 trench cutters. What is the -- you said INR 40 crore per trench cutter, right?

Yes.

Yes.

Around that.

And the tunnel boring machine would be how much?

This tunnel boring machine, there is a cost of procurement and there's some refurbishment costs as well. So each tunnel boring machine could cost between say INR 30 crores and INR 40 crores.

Okay. Okay. And we hope to utilize this machine across the multiple projects we are working on, tunnel projects, plus metro projects, I think. So utilization you think will not be a challenge for both the trench cutters and the TBM machine that we have bought?

Yes, yes, we have to utilize them. And there are visibility that is what is the business. I mean, we have to utilize them.

Right. Sir, many congratulations on this quarter. It was really heartening to see 10% EBITDA and really wishing that in the coming years, you can cross INR 10,000 crores with much higher EBITDA margins, and keep doing the excellent high-level technical work that the entire team is doing.

Next question comes from [ Aman Soni ], an individual investor.

I'm joining the con call for the first time. So I just wanted to understand -- firstly, I have a couple of questions. I'll go one by one. My first question was on the margin profile. I understand that the company does different orders from NHAI to marine and all other things. So which kind of orders provide a better margin? And if you can quantify that, that would be great.

Well, typically, we have -- our experience has been that underground metro and marine projects give us better margins. There would typically -- each project comes with its own set of complexities. So the margin profile would differ from project to project, but we would -- our margins are certainly higher on these two segments as compared to the other segments that we work in.

Okay. All right. And one more thing, I read in your previous con call that you mentioned something about INR 29 crores provisioning that you did. So what was it during the current quarter?

Nothing. There was no provision. This was in Q1. For one of the elevated metro projects, we have taken a hit of INR 29 crores in Q1. There is nothing in Q2.

Okay. And secondly, my last question was on the tax rate. So in the past couple of quarters, I see the tax rate hovers around -- sometimes 40%, 45%. So what should be the number going forward? What can we expect?

On a standalone basis, the tax rate is around 25%. So there's no change in that. But the results that we declare has a mix of our standalone profit as well as the profit that we record on some of the joint venture projects that we have. And that is why there is a change in the tax rate. But going forward, I think it should be in the range of 25%, 26%.

25%, 26%. Okay. And one last thing, I read in the opening remarks, you detailing out different projects and their completion periods. So I can see that some other companies in their investor presentation usually give -- what -- the percentage, which is completed, along with the project name. So would it be possible to share that in the coming quarters in the investor presentation?

Well, there are about 50 to 60 projects that we are executing. But that's a good input that we have received from you. We'll see how we can factor that in the presentation going forward.

Yes, I understand. Basically, it will be great if initially you can just start off with maybe 50%, 60% of whatever your top orders are. That would be very much helpful.

Next question comes from Sameer Deshpande from Fair Deal Investments.

Congratulations for the excellent set of results, we have produced, over the last 6 months. Actually I heard the net debt is around INR 460 crores or INR 260 crores?

INR 460 crores.

INR 460 crores.

Yes.

Because if -- in the balance sheet, if I go for the consolidated balance sheet, the loans -- gross loans are around INR 750 crores. And cash and bank balances totally is around INR 500 crores. So it comes to INR 250 crores net debt.

No, the gross debt number is correct. We have taken some of the deposits are earmarked against some of the guarantees that have been issued. So if you -- we have reconsidered the unencumbered deposits for working out the net debt. And according to that the net debt works out to about INR 460 crores.

So it is quite comfortable concerning the industry situation, and we have managed our working capital also very well. As you mentioned, less than 90 days is quite commendable. And now you mentioned regarding these maritime projects and these underground metros are the most profitable part of our total business. So in that maritime order contributes, I think, more than 50% of our order book or 40%?

It is now close to 40%.

And the -- which is around INR 7,800 crores out of INR 22,000 crores? Okay. It's quite good, business is picking up well and pray -- we hope the execution also will be good in the second half.

Yes, that is what is expected.

Next question comes from Kaushik Poddar from KB Capital Markets Private Limited.

See with your turnover going up sharply, say, 20%, 25%, do you see the margin also going up -- EBITDA margin?

EBITDA margin, yes, you are right because there are some fixed costs, which doesn't get proportionately changed. So theoretically, it should go up. And...

And to what level do you see in '25? See, right now, I think you are around 10.6% or 10.7%. So can we think of, say, 11%, 11.5% this year and next year?

Yes. Actually, the margin also is a function of competition. You have to seek some jobs at a lower margin. So that is also a win. So yes, 10% plus, let's see how best we can do in the next year.

Okay. And do you see with the inflation -- sorry, with the election being a few months away or something, there will be a kind of freeze in new orders?

Yes. Expected during the -- around election time, there will be, but whatever work we have already secured, whatever we are expecting from the L1 bid I don't -- or whatever we have given the guidelines will be affected.

Okay. So even with the election being say, 4, 5 months away, you still see the 20%, 25% growth for next year. I mean that should not be a problem because of the orders are at hand. That's what you're saying?

Yes. Yes. You are right.

[Operator Instructions] Next question comes from [ Kunal Kathuria ] from -- an individual investor.

Congratulations sir for the fantastic results. And -- to get the guidelines also for the balance of the 6 months. Sir, I wanted to ask about the arbitration awards that we have in our hand and do we expect any cash flow from any of these awards in this financial year?

Yes, Kunal, you are most welcome. Thank you for joining this con call. Yes, we have got few arbitration award. One is from Calcutta airport, which was a joint venture with our parent company. The discussions are going on. So we expect that some results will come out soon. I mean when I say soon, maybe 3, 4 months' time. And another one award we have from the Noida Authority, which is around INR 40-odd crores. So now the authority has gone to the court, challenging the award. But normally if the arbitration awards are there you can expect that the court order also will be favorable to us. So these are the two arbitration awards we are now pursuing.

So what will be the value of the cash flow that you're expecting?

From the arbitration?

Yes, from the arbitration.

If we -- for the Noida it is quite defined because it is around INR 40 crores. But for Calcutta airport the discussions are going on. So we really want to see that how well it goes out. So we don't want to comment on that, but Noida is around INR 40 crores, we'll look at.

Right, sir. Sir, if you could give me a breakup of the revenue that you expect from Ganga Expressway, Chennai Metro and the [ Varsha ] projects for next 6 months?

Ganga Expressway, there should be around INR 150 crores to INR 200 crores per month. Typically metro jobs, INR 40 crores to INR 50 crores per month from each metro jobs. That is our statistics, we don't go into the detail.

And sir, Varsha marine projects?

Varsha marine project, it's a little bit early because we are still in the planning stage. And it depends upon when we do the dredging. Because we can do the dredging in the monsoon, before the next monsoon starts, or we may go to dredging after the next monsoon starts. So the whole thing will depend upon the dredging progress. At this moment, I don't have the right number to share with you.

Right, sir. So for Ganga Expressway, you said INR 900 crores revenue was booked in this quarter. Am I correct, sir?

No, you are wrong. So far, we have done INR 900 crores from the inception.

Okay. Okay. This is the total execution. Okay. Understood. So one more thing I wanted to understand, we are giving -- paying royalty to our parent company Italian-Thai and we are also giving dividends. Can the company consider a share buyback, which is more tax efficient for retail and small investors?

I don't have the answer for that today. This is our discussion strategy. So I won't be able to comment on that right now.

Right sir. Last question. Sir, any bill discounting for vendors or your contractors or financing like [ L&T does with L&T Finance ]? Have we tied up with any NBFC? Or is there anything in pipeline that we would -- we're looking to do it?

We have such facilities from few of our banks.

Next is a follow-up question from Bajrang Bafna from Sunidhi Securities.

Sir, on the Bangalore Metro, is there anything left? Because I think most of the provisions has already been done. Any revenue, which is yet to be booked or any more provisions required? And we -- can we expect some sort of -- the total loss that we booked over last maybe 1- to 2-year kind of time frame is upwards of INR 150 crores, if I recollect it right. So any possibility of getting this money back through some settlement or some arbitration? So some guidance on that will be really helpful, sir.

Well, Bangalore metro, physically all work completed. There are three contracts there. Out of 3 -- out of -- four contracts, I'm sorry. Out of that three contracts already taken over by the client, final bill certified or certification is under progress. The fourth one also completed, and taking over also is happening. So whatever left out revenue would be hardly few crores, which will come through the final bill. So we -- and the provisioning part is almost over. I don't expect there'll be anything further required. That I have clarified in the last con call as well. And we have got a few claims of the additional work done. We have submitted our bill. So those are under process and some will go for arbitration. And as you know that arbitration process takes time. We will not be able to comment on the time line, but definitely, we are pursuing few claims in our extra items.

So what is the total cost over that we have booked so far in P&L in the Bengaluru project? The total amount till date?

Bajrang, these numbers are not readily available. Maybe we can reconnect offline and discuss this further.

Next question comes from [Mehul Mehta ] from [ Nuvama Wealth ].

In terms of CapEx for the first half, I believe what I heard is INR 238 crores has been so far incurred. So any guidance for next -- I mean, for H2 like -- would like to be for CapEx, what can we expect?

It will be very less. I mean, first 2 quarters, we had to invest for many things which I have discussed right now. But going forward, it will be quite less. I don't have the exact number, but it will be much less.

Next is a follow-up question from Sameer Deshpande from Fair Deal Investments.

I wanted to know what is the amount of advance received against contracts in our current liabilities?

Well, as of the quarter end, the total amount of advances outstanding is about INR 1,300 crores, INR 1,400 crores.

INR 1,300 crores, INR 1,400 crores. Because normally, we must be receiving the advances when the new -- when new contracts we are getting, you will be receiving certain portion as advance they will give you. So it was -- so it is INR 1,300 crores, INR 1,400 crores. What was the amount last year? Any idea on that?

No, I wouldn't have the last year figure available -- readily available right now.

Okay. Because our unbilled work in progress as on 30 September is around INR 1,540 crores, which is up by almost 50% if I take on the 31st March figure last year. So this year also -- because of the new contracts issued, et cetera in significant way, this figure also must be better. That will help us in questioning our working capital requirements no?

No, you're right. And the numbers will be available in our annual report and our results are available publicly, so you will be able to look at it. The work in progress is higher because we need to -- in the initial periods of any project, after it is awarded there is a lot of expenditure that we need to incur on mobilizing plant equipment, materials, et cetera. And only once the billing cycle starts then we see moderation in the work in progress. And so I think the growth in the work in progress number is in line with the growth in our order book and our revenue.

Next is a follow-up question from Pratik Kothari from Unique PMS.

Sir, one comment from you on ports, I mean we read about Mr. Jindal's comment on the kind of capacity which they expect that India should build similarly from Adani Ports. Recently this development, the U.S. government funding one of your projects for [indiscernible]. Just your comment -- I mean what kind of pipeline or run rate do you see for the next few years on the port side?

Yes. Port side, there are a lot of capacity deficit we have in our country. Either the container cargo or the bulk cargo, when I say bulk cargo, it is iron ore, coal, et cetera, et cetera. So there will be a lot of new terminal has to be there in the coming years. And you can see that it's getting reflected in the Odisha. One by one all the promoters like the Adani, Jindal, ArcelorMittal and many of them are focusing Odisha to building up the port there. So -- and at the same time, defense also coming up with a lot of marine jobs in and around the coastline in Ahmedabad and many other places. So there is a lot of marine job prospect in India going forward.

There are no further questions. Now I hand over the floor to the management for closing comments.

Thank you very much for joining us on this Q2 FY '24 earnings call. On behalf of the company, Mr. Basu and myself, I would like to wish each and every one of you a very happy Diwali and prosperous New Year. I look forward to interacting with you again after our Q3 results. Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference for today. Thank you for your participation and for using Door Sabha's conference call service. You may disconnect your lines now. Thank you, and have a pleasant day.