CLP Holdings Limited (2) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to CLP Holdings 2026 Interim Results Briefing. My name is Marisa Wang, Head of Investor Relations, and it's a pleasure to have you with us today. I'm joined by our Chief Executive Officer, Mr. TK Chiang; and our Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Alex Keisser. Our interim results was announced with the Hong Kong Exchange at midday today. Both that announcement and today's presentation are now available on the CLP IR website. Today's session is being recorded. The archive will be posted on our website shortly after we conclude. Before we begin, I'll direct your attention to the disclaimer on Slide 2. And today's agenda, we'll start with TK providing our first half highlights. Alex will then talk us through the financial results, and TK will return to share our strategic outlook. We will then move to a Q&A session, and we very much welcome your questions and engagement. With that, I'll now hand over to TK to begin the briefing. Over to you, TK.

Yes. Thank you, Marisa. So good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us. Now the first half of 2026 was a strong start to the year, set against continued global energy market volatility and evolving market conditions. The group delivered solid earnings growth while positioning itself to capture the opportunities reshaping our sector, rising demand from data centers and accelerating energy transition. Our performance reflects 3 consistent themes. First, our strong earnings performance led by our regulated Hong Kong business, where continued capital investment is driving stability and growth alongside improved contributions from every region. Second, we made tangible progress on portfolio value creation and capital discipline. We delivered a decarbonization milestone with the sale of Jhajjar coal plants. We delivered capital-efficient funding through our inaugural Panda bond issuance, enabling self-funded structure for our Chinese Mainland renewables platform. And we continued to direct growth capital towards enabling infrastructure for the energy transition with a clear focus on returns. And third, our operational excellence and transformation remain at our core. Our group-wide efficiency and digitalization agenda is delivering recurring benefits, while our transformation programs are building leaner businesses positioning us for the next phase of performance. Now turning to the highlights. Financially, the group's operating earnings before fair value movements were up 10% to over HKD 5.7 billion Total earnings have risen 7% to nearly HKD 6 billion on the Jhajjar sale. The Board has recommended a second interim dividend of HKD 0.63 per share bringing total interim dividends to HKD 1.26 per share. Safety remains our highest priority. Following the loss of a contractor working at Kaspi Power Station in May actions from the investigation are being implemented across the group. Total recordable injury rate improved during the half as we continue to strengthen critical risk management and safety controls. Reliability, measured by unplanned customer mills was slightly impacted by extreme weather and power supply incidents in Hong Kong. Nevertheless, Hong Kong's network reliability stood at 99.999%, which remains exceptional by wealth standards. On the customer front, we added more accounts in Hong Kong while competitive dynamics in Australia led to a decline in numbers. In terms of generation, electricity setouts and capacity declined marginally, a result of our exit from Jhajjar. I'll now hand over to Alex for the financial results.

Thank you, TK, and good afternoon. A summary of the key metrics: earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization and fair value movements or EBITDAF, increased by 9% year-on-year to HKD 13.6 billion. Operating earnings before fair value movements increased by 10% to HKD 5.7 billion. Adjusted for the fair value movements and items affecting comparability, total earnings were close to HKD 6 billion, an increase of 7%. Capital investments billion was lower despite higher Hong Kong [indiscernible] CapEx, reflecting disciplined capital allocation across our businesses outside of Hong Kong, where we continue to invest selectively. Total dividends per share declared for the first half 2026 was HKD 1.26, same as last year. Let's go now into the details. The group performance was anchored by a strong Hong Kong business performance and supported by improved contributions from every region. Corporate cost allocation optimization improved our unallocated expenses by 17%, coming into a fourth consecutive year of savings. Below the line, fair value movements on Energy Australia's forward energy contracts were less favorable compared to a year ago. Together, with a HKD 356 million contribution in items affecting comparability, primarily the gain on Jhajjar divestment, total earnings rose to nearly $6 billion. I'll now take you through the detailed performance and outlook for each business unit. All variances will exclude foreign exchange to reflect underlying performance of the business. Beginning with Hong Kong. Hong Kong delivered another strong result with operating earnings up 6% to HKD 4.8 billion. Earnings growth reflected continued capital investments, expanding the asset base together with lower interest cost on a lower rate environment and proactive refinancing. We invested HKD 4.8 billion of CapEx, the majority in transmission and distribution, supporting Northern metropolis development, data center expansion and grid upgrades. On demand, local electricity sales rose 3.6%, reflecting stronger economic demand. Data center demand grew close to 12%. And transport electrification continued to accelerate reinforcing their roles as key structural growth drivers. Looking forward, our HKD 52.9 billion development plan remains on track. Near term, we are expanding infrastructure for the northern metropolis and data center connections alongside continued grade reinforcement. As the Hong Kong government developed its first 5-year plan, electricity will be central to Hong Kong's long-term growth and energy security. On decarbonization, we completed the clean energy transmission system upgrade and continue to work with government to expand 0 carbon imports over time. On supply security and tariffs, our policy remains resilient despite global volatility underpinned by diversified fuel mix. Higher international fuel cost have led to an increase of 4% in average net tariff. And we will continue to support customer affordability through a special fuel rebate for eligible customers from August to October. Turning to the Chinese mainland. The sector is in transition, tariff reform, a supply-demand imbalance, [indiscernible] softer economic demand and renewables building out ahead of grid and storage capacity. Against this backdrop, operating earnings held broadly stable at [ HKD 899 ] million as nuclear reliability and renewable capacity additions absorb tariff pressures and renewable curtailment. Nuclear contributed positively with strong generation and reliable operation at Daya Bay and Yangjiang. Renewables also contributed positively as 5 new projects offset higher curtailment and lower tariff as well as weaker resources. Our minority coal portfolio saw stable dispatch at lower tariffs, reflecting market competition partially offset by lower coal costs. Looking ahead, we're executing our transformation program, which TK will cover later in the presentation. We do expect continued market exposure to weight on Yangjiang's earning as well as renewable and coal-fired tariffs. And we are actively managing our growth development of renewable investment in national load centers. Growth is self-funded, anchored in our Panda program and a clean energy form now in development. New earnings will be underpinned by long-term fixed revenues through mechanist tariff, corporate PPA and green energy certificates. The pipeline remains healthy with close to 1 gigawatt in execution, including CLP China's largest wind projects to date. To Energy Australia. Operating earnings were up 22% to HKD 223 million. Energy Australia benefited from strong retail recovery that was partially offset by the energy business due to a softer market condition. On the energy side, good commercial availability across Yallourn, Mt Piper and the gas portfolio helped mitigate softer wholesale prices and lower price volatility higher fuel costs and the non-repeat of last year at [indiscernible] gain also shaped the results. The customer business saw improved margin on the tariff through of last year's repricing and recontracting as well as lower bad and doubtful debt, notwithstanding softer customer demand and continued competitive intensity. Enterprise costs were higher, as anticipated, reflecting continued investment into the multiyear transformation program, including the Tata consulting service partnership. On outlook, we expect conditions to remain challenging. Wholesale prices and volatility have softened materially over the past 6 months, reflecting additional renewable and storage capacity milder weather and sure supply disruption across the NEM. We expect the retail environment to remain competitive with margins aligned with this year's DMO and video determinations. Near term, current conditions will weigh on earnings. Though our long-term view remains constructive, underpinned by electrification, data center load and the pace of coal exit. Against that backdrop, the reliability and flexibility of our portfolio and our transformation program is central to mitigating the changing market conditions. The transformation program is a deliberate cost out, targeting around HKD 250 million of enterprise cost savings by 2027 from the current cost base excluding customer platform transformation costs and benefit. And on flexible capacity, we're advancing close to a gigawatt of new battery and pump hydro with Wooreen and [indiscernible] batteries under construction. Moving to Apraava. The completion of Jhajjar marked a strategic milestone. Our Indian noncarbon platform continues to scale, with operating earnings up 41% on to HKD 105 million, so lifted by one-off items. Thermal contribution was lower as Jhajjar contributing for only part of the period ahead of the March divestment. Renewable performance was affected by softer wind resources and generation. Transmission was the largest contributor to growth. reflecting reliable operations and the nonrepeat of last year's MTL impairment. MI earnings held steady, but with lower-than-planned revenue realization due to delayed project executions. And group adjustments and corporate expenses were lower, reflecting interest income received on delayed payments, thanks to the resolution of the nonoperational Paguthan dispute. With Jhajjar exited, Apraava earnings mix shifts fully to noncarbon, contracted, regulated and scaled into Indian's energy transition. In renewables, near-term generation will be shaped by monsoon season. Across renewables and transmission, we continue to build out our portfolio. [indiscernible] , we secured 2 new transmission projects of roughly HKD 4.5 billion, adding to our platform of long-dated revenues. And finally, smart metering continues to scale with nearly 3.7 million meters installed with rollout continuing across 7 states. Turning to Taiwan region and Southeast Asia. [Foreign Language] Beyond the existing portfolio, we continue to build towards a regional growth platform. with near-term execution focused on long-term contracted renewables in Taiwan region. Turning to cash flow. Cash inflow were healthy at HKD 8.8 billion, up HKD 1.7 billion, driven by higher EBITDA from all business units across the portfolio together with proceed from the [indiscernible] divestment. Total cash outflow were HKD 11.8 billion, made up of HKD 7 billion of capital investment and HKD 4.9 billion of dividends payment. Of the capital investment, HKD 5.3 billion was directed to our Hong Kong SoC business and EUR 1.6 billion, mainly to renewable projects in the Chinese wetland. Cash payment for dividends was higher as a result of the higher final dividends for 2025 financial year. Finally, our financial structure remains strong. Net debt was higher than at the end of 2025, reflecting our dividend payment cycle with a higher final dividends paid in the first half and was broadly in line with the level of the end of the first half of 2025. Liquidity remains sound with around HKD 20 billion of available facilities. We were active in the debt markets. The team successfully refinanced around HKD 9 billion banking facility and medium-term notes for the Hong Kong SoC business and competitive credit spread. CLP China issued its inaugural 3-year RMB 1 billion Panda bond to fund renewable growth and Energy Australia refinanced into a large AUD 600 million syndicated facility. Our debt profile remains well structured. Maturities are well spread with a balanced mix of 50% fixed and 50% floating rate. Our prudent financial management continues to be recognized by rating agencies, S&P and Moody's, we reaffirmed our strong investment grade rating for CLP Holding, CLP Power and Capco, all with stable outlook. Our financial situation provides a solid foundation to fund our growth and returns. I'll pass it now over to TK for the strategy update.

Yes. Thanks, Alex. Now the results Alex has walked you through, show a group delivering with resilience. That's the foundation from which we are executing our strategy. Now let me start with our regulatory business in Hong Kong. Our approach is consistent and deliberate. Invest in long-life infrastructure funded with discipline and grow our regulated asset base in step with the structural demand of a modern economy. Three things that define that strategy. First, a stable regulatory regime. The scheme control framework has stood for over 60 years, providing predictable returns and dependable earnings that are fundamental to our strength. Second, long-term infrastructure investments. The HKD 52.9 billion 5-year development plan anchors the CapEx and Hong Kong's growth agenda with a major focus on expanding the power system to meet demand from data centers and investment of HKD 2.5 billion for the initial phase of Northern Metropolis build-outs. Third, operational excellence as the enabler. Sustaining a world-class electricity system is fundamental to how we invest and grow, underpinning our reliability, cost discipline and safety. And more broadly, the policy backdrop remains constructive with electricity recommended as a strategic and economic infrastructure in the government's first 5-year plan, reinforcing the long-term durability of our Hong Kong business. Now building on that foundation, we are continuing to grow on the Chinese Mainland and doing it with discipline. We are mindful of the near-term environment. We form [indiscernible] different tariff pressure, a supply-demand imbalance and integration lacking the pace of renewables growth. We are calibrating to these conditions, focusing on 3 things: to lift the quality of the platform as we execute towards 5 gigawatts by 2030. First, transformation. To enhance returns and drive sustainable growth. We are centralizing operations to strengthen efficiency with a deeper presence in Beijing and a new business center in Shanghai. At the same time, we are driving cost optimization through a more streamlined operating model, targeting around HKD 100 million of saving from our current cost base. Second, and this is the heart of our discipline, value over volume. Every project must clear a minimum return hurdle, a low double-digit equity IRR. We are deliberate about where we built targeting locations with strong demand and lower curtailment risk and locking in fixed long-term tariffs to secure that return. And third, our self-funding model is well advanced to be in place by the end of the year. The inaugural Panda bond gives us a low-cost onshore funding and the clean energy fund in development with further enhance capital efficiency. The National Energy transition is a powerful tailwind, 240 to 320 gigawatts of renewable energy per year, RMB 5 trillion of grid investment and 300 gigawatts of storage by 2030. Our shift towards a disciplined, self-funded and returned platform positioned us to capture that opportunity. Now in India, our profit growth is now about scaling a noncarbon platform in one of the world's fastest-growing energy markets. With Jhajjar now sold, our earnings mix is built firmly around renewables, transmission and smart metering, while we continue to explore adjacencies like C&I and batteries. Our ambition is around 9 gigawatts of noncarbon capacity by 2030, building into India's national target of 500 gigawatts. Progress has been sound in highly competitive markets. No new bids were won in the first half, but post period end, we secured 2 new transmission awards, roughly 800 megawatts equivalent. Now that is in line with our ambition of roughly a gigawatt of growth a year, and it reflects our discipline. We bid only where returns and risk meet our [indiscernible] . Growth is funded through a disciplined capital stack of self-generated cash and capital recycling with projects targeting minimum low- to mid-double-digit equity returns. The result is a contracted and predictable earnings base secured by long-term agreements, 35 years regulated tariffs for transmission, 25 years for renewables, 10 years for smart meters. Apraava remains a capital-efficient platform that enhances our earnings and long-term growth profile. Let's turn to Australia, where growth of flexible assets is central to delivering value and earnings resilience as the market transitions. As renewables enter the system ahead of co-retirements flexible, dispatchable capacity becomes increasingly variable to firm renewable output, capture the widening day time to evening price spreads and support reliability through the peak. We have an executable pipeline of high-quality projects targeting around 3 gigawatts by 2030, delivering across 4 dimensions. We built our existing sites, making use of land, grid connections and workforce already in place, which reduces lead times and capital intensity. Execution is supported by our repeated success in winning under the federal capacity investment schemes, which supports project economics. Our partnership models on large projects delivers capital efficiency and enhance returns, targeting minimum of high single-digit equity returns and enabling Energy Australia's energy transition on its own balance sheet. And Energy Australia's transformation program is building a more efficient and competitive business, improving customer outcomes and lowering costs over time. In the first half, Orana battery reached commercial operations, adding 200 megawatts of flexible capacity through and offtake arrangements. [indiscernible] batteries are under construction and Mt. Piper battery is progressing towards final investment decision. And that brings me to a longer-term opportunity at the Yallourn sites. While the retirement of the [indiscernible] in 2028 marks the end of coal-fired generation on the site, it also gives us the option to repurpose it. The hardest and most expensive parts of an energy projects are already in place. Around 5,500 hectares of 3 whole land, existing high-voltage transmission at 220 and 500 kilovolt, secure water access and a skilled labor workforce. We are exploring a range of development pathways centers on the growth in large-scale data center demand. The initial configuration includes up to 2 1-gigawatt data centers with scope to expand over time as demand develops. Supporting energy infrastructure would be developed progressively, including battery storage and dispatchable firming generation using infrastructure already in place. Now these are early stage. Planning approvals and community consultations are still ahead. We will assess each pathway on its own merits. The value in the loan is optionality, a way to extend the infrastructure we own beyond the coal plants live as and when the economics support it. Now before I hand over, let me bring this together in terms of what we believe makes CLP a compelling investment. Our proposition rests on 4 pillars. Built by simple idea, we are anchored in Hong Kong and growing across Asia Pacific energy transition. Earnings resilience is the foundation. Our regulated Hong Kong business provides a stable core and our regional platforms, building towards sustained earnings growth over time. The second is portfolio value creation and efficient capital growth. Through asset rotation, portfolio management and investing in infrastructure, enabling the region's energy transition while remaining firmly focused on returns. The third is operational excellence and transformation. Cost optimization, digitalization and our transformation programs in Australia and the mainland, building structural efficiencies more competitive businesses and helping to self-fund our growth. And the fourth is shareholder returns, a commitment to consistent, sustainable dividends supported by resilient earnings, balance sheet strength and disciplined capital allocation. Taken together, these principles guide how we run the business providing stability today and positioning CLP to create long-term value as the region's energy transition accelerates. I'll now hand it over to Marissa.

Thank you, TK. Thank you, Alex. We will now move to the Q&A portion of today's briefing. [Operator Instructions] With that, let's begin. We'd love to hear from you Pierre, if you can hear me. Go ahead and ask your question.

Thanks, TK, Alex and Melissa. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to ask questions. And firstly, congratulations for your first half results. I have 3 questions. The first one is about dividend. So I can see that in the first half this year, you reduced your CapEx by 11% year-on-year. Free cash flow also increased year-on-year. So it seems without increased your TPS. So why don't you increase the TPS in the first half? And I remember in the last 2 years, you also increased the TPS by HKD 0.05, but mostly in the fourth quarter. Are you going to do the same thing this year? Second question is about your Australian retail business. It's good that in your retail customer business turned profitable in first half this year? But on Page 12 of your presentation material, you mentioned that the retail electricity price in Australia will be lower because of the regulatory reform in 2026, 2027. So are we expecting the improvement of the retail customer business in the first half should be relatively short term? And then second half this year or 2027 would become worse again. The last question is about your Australian business as well, but for the wholesale energy business. On Page 43 of your presentation material, you [indiscernible] the wholesale price there. It seems that the wholesale prices keep declining. So are we expecting your wholesale energy business earning will continue to drop in the second half? Or you can expect some CapEx mentioned by your management earlier that the contribution from the new project will be able to offset the reductions or the negative impact from the wholesale price/

Yes. Thank you, Pierre, for the questions. I think for the dividend, our dividend policy has always been providing consistent and steadily growing dividend provided that the underlying business can be sustainably growing. So at the end, it will be the Board's decision on determining the level of dividend. And we are -- our target obviously is to hopefully, to grow the business and then providing an increasing dividend. So I think you will see in the coming quarters, so what kind of dividend we will provide. So for Australia, I think you rightly pointed out several challenges ahead of us. Firstly, in terms of the retail business, the [indiscernible] and the DMO coming out has been reduced. Now -- but that's because of the reduced -- the reduction in the wholesale market. So that's why the [indiscernible] and DMO actually came down. So -- but more importantly, I think for retail business, it's all the competition between the retailers and we do see there are increasing pressure of competition. So in the second half of the year, we do see pressure on it. But more importantly, I think it's how do we improve our business. So we are now undergoing transformation by outsourcing our back-end office to Tata Consulting Services. So last year and this year, a period where we are doing the transformation and we do see benefits coming out this year and then more benefit will materialize next year and in '28, But regarding your wholesale, your point about wholesale price, I think that could even be more important because I think in terms of the changes in the market regarding weather condition being much milder this winter, more storage project has come online. So the -- basically, the volatility, the demand has been reduced. And the volatility of the wholesale market has also received reduced. And then at the same time, the generation plants are all quite reliable, cogeneration, renewable energy generation. So we do see this quite significant reduction in the wholesale forward price. So in the coming few months or maybe even in '27, I think this will continue. But over medium to longer term, I think because of the retirement of coal generation, we do see support to our -- to the wholesale price. And our flexible fleet, I think the value actually would be more during that situation. And as I mentioned, for transformation, Energy Australia is going to become more competitive. And we are also looking at different capital kind of efficient structure. For example, in -- for our [indiscernible] battery projects, we successfully found a partner to invest in the project. But then at the same time, we have a like a PPA arrangement from the asset owner to Energy Australia. So that not only make the capital more efficient from Energy Australia perspective, but also help us obtain more opportunity to increase the return in this market.

Thanks, T.K. Next question from our analysts Stephen Tsui from JPMorgan.

Congratulations on the results as well. So I have also a few questions. So my first question would be on the Hong Kong business. So just wondering, like, do we have any update on like discussion or like playing on like the next development plan starting from like 2028? And also, do we have any like updates on our view on like the potential Mainland nuclear investment by CRP. So that's the first question. On the second question, so we saw like from our first half results, or wind -- Chinese mainland results. So for the wind business, although like we saw some curtailment and tariff impact, we actually see like a meaningful increase in the operating earnings of the wind segment. So going into second half or like into next year, so how should we think about like the renewables profits from Chinese Mainland? And the third question would be on like our nuclear plant in China. So we saw like there was slight improvement in [indiscernible] and Yangjiang saw some impact from tariff decline. So what should we think about like the nuclear outlook into second half and also like next year?

Yes. Thank you. Now for Hong Kong, I think for the development plan, the current plan covers the period from '24 to '28. So the process under the scheme of control is that for the next development plan, we're going to discuss with the government properly in early '28, if not late -- so I think right now, I would not have any particular information that I can share. Now regarding the potential new imports, I think that's more longer term to achieve the decarbonization target as set out by the Hong Kong government in the climate action plan 2050. So by 2035, we need to achieve 60% to 70% zero carbob energy in our generation fuel mix. So the idea is to bring zero carbon energy from the Mainland to Hong Kong, which consists of mainly nuclear but also with some renewable energy. Now I think the studies still continue. I think it also depends on the government dialogue with the Mainland authorities. But at the same time, you may be aware that the Area 136 in Chenghuan, which is basically a piece of land with recognition to be carried out, will be used or it has been earmarked for building station for that kind of zero carbon energy from the Mainland. And for that particular project, I understand the government about to start the recognition, and we are working very closely with the government on progressing the projects. Regarding China, now for wind resources, or wind generation because in China, we have a few new wind projects coming online. So that adds to the revenue as well as profit. But at the same time, overall speaking, there is, I would say, more serious curtailment issues in China because of the supply demand in balance situation right now. The overall curtailment percentage it's about -- in the first half, it's about 15%, which compares 9% last year. So we do see some increase in curtailment, which would be due to either technical [indiscernible] technical reason because of the Greek constraint or because of supply-demand imbalance. So going forward, actually, in China, our focus is to make our business more competitive. So we are now also doing a transformation in China. Basically optimizing the core, centralizing operations with share service structure. So we would enhance our presence, as I mentioned, in Beijing office, and we will set up a new office in Shanghai so that we can be more closer to the authorities, to our stakeholders, to our partners and also to our customers. At the same time, we will be going over value than volume. So we will be focusing markets or provinces that are having higher growth, higher tariff level, lower curtailment risk. And some of them, actually, we are also looking at more expansion projects where our costs will be lower, so that we can -- overall speaking, we can increase our sorry, and our return. At the same time, we are also looking at some more capital-efficient way of doing the business. For example, Alex also mentioned the Panda bond, so that gives us actually a low-cost funding source. We are also exploring what we call the clean energy fund, which is also another platform that we can not only enhance our return, but also make our capital more efficient. So the third question, I think, is more on nuclear. Now nuclear, [indiscernible] and Yangjiang are quite different. Taipei is more like a cost base return because there is a PPA signed with CLP power. So basically, it's a cost-plus approach and it depends on the performance of the plant, there could be some slight adjustment. But mainly, it will be a cost-plus approach. Now for Yangjiang, so because of higher reliability, in the first half. So we can see there are more generation, but which is offset by the lower tariffs in Guangdong. So there is a slight downward adjustment of the nuclear business. Now going forward, I think the nuclear business will be relatively stable in the second half because we foresee the generation will be more or less follow the same kind of reliability level.

Thank you. We've got Yang from HSBC on the line.

And I would like to ask 2 questions. So I would like to ask about EA plan to monetize the Yangon portfolio. Currently, EA operates only in Australia, retail and wholesale markets. So in the longer term, is EA looking to expand business beyond traditional utilities into areas like pricement or EPC services? And the second question is could you please provide update for your new business entrants into the PPA market? You discussed in the previous earnings report. And can I add one more? And if possible, could you please provide any breakdown in the current SoC CapEx or the [indiscernible] Metropolis project and if possible, could you please provide SoC CapEx outlook for the local Petropolis project in the future.

Thank you, Joa. Now for IA, I think for the Yallourn Security precinct, that is a piece of land with all the infrastructure ready, transmission connections, water access. So it is, I would say, a very good size that we can develop into a powered land for data center. So that's the current thinking. And the initial phase could be building to 1 gigawatt kind of scale of data center together with battery store range because we will basically power the data center with renewable energy that we purchase and then combined with the battery store rates, we make it more affirmed renewable energy supply. And at the same time, we are also thinking about gas generation, which can provide fast response and also back up capacity to further support the power supply for the data center development. So I think that's more the current thinking. But I think currently, [indiscernible] it's still in a very early stage. We have not well out except the Sogo business model for this one. And we are now planning to do kind of like market sounding and try to collect more feedback from the market, what the market wants. Now regarding the breakdown of the -- no, I think the second question is more the new investment, right, in the region. They are growth markets. And I think near term, we are more focusing on time line region because in Taiwan, the regime is very mature -- we have PPAs with Tai Power. We have also corporate PPAs with big corporations, in particular, TSMC. So that will be the more near-term focus. For Vietnam or Laos, I think it's more medium term because I think doing business in those markets will take some time. And also the -- for example, in Vietnam, I think the market is also developing. There are new regulations that are favoring corporate PPAs which we think is good. So we are also monitoring the development of the regulation closely. I think the third one on CapEx, yes, for Northern Metropolis, I think we've seen the current development plan, the total CapEx is about HKD 2.5 billion. So it's basically spend across the whole development plan period from '24 to '28 beyond [indiscernible] , it will be the next development plan, which, as I mentioned at the beginning, we still have not so [indiscernible] lstarted the preparation yet. So I think the discussion with the government will only be carry out in early '28 or if not '27. So I don't have any particular information that I can share.

And Yonghui, if you refer on Slide 18, that gives you the breakdown, 72% into T&D for the SoC CapEx for this development plan. We've got a question from Tikanga. See if you can hear us, please go ahead and ask your question.