Elica S.p.A. (ELC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon. This is the Chorus Call conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Elica Group 9 Months 2024 Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Giulio Cocci, CEO of Elica. Please go ahead, sir.

Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for joining our quarterly call. Let's go to the agenda, then we will briefly discuss the results highlights. We will go through the industry trend and the dynamics of our sales performance, to close with the financial review and the outlook that we see for this year, but moreover, some overall comments on how we see the business, how we see the sector, how we see also the future dynamics of ourselves and of the industry in which we play. If you move to Slide #4, quarterly highlights, EUR 104 million of net sales, meaning an organic loss of circa 1% versus last year. That means that this is to be read in a double perspective. First of all, we are playing in an industry and this is valid for Motors as well as for Cooking division, which is persisting to be negative. On the other side, what we see is that the effect of the new products, the actions, the distribution that we are creating are growing our market share. The balance in this moment remains negative but what we see is that the path coming from the new actions is slowly, slowly becoming bigger as the market drop. Going more in depth, Cooking division, we see a performance which in Europe is in line with the market trend. We will see later on the trend of the main markets in which we play and nowhere we see a positive signal. Almost in all of Western European market, after a very good July, we saw in August and September and consequently, a quarter 4 forecast from our customers which remains negative. On the other side, we see our OEM business after years and years of decreasing back to stability, back to growth. Why? Because we have new products, because we are entering new customers because the industrial restructuring that we did between 2021 and 2022 gave us competitiveness to fight with better cost with the competition to entering these customers. We also see North America that keeps in the branded business to perform strongly above the market. In a market which is negative, we are growing in the region of 30%. It's a good perspective because margins are high and because there are huge amounts of products and opportunities that we are working on or that are already in our hands that will deliver in the incoming years. Motor division, it was a positive quarter, very positive quarter compared also to the competition, but there are two factors. The first one is the market share gain in all of our main customers that gave us speed versus the competition. On the other side, we need to remember that quarter 3 last year was the quarter in which the market of boilers and heating in general went on stop. So there is also a comparison factor considering the fact that the destocking is already closed between quarter 3 2024 and quarter 3 2023. In this volume and pricing drop scenario, we are keeping our margin under control or at least in line with our expectations. Why we say in line with our expectations? Because as we shared many things. From a side, there is a volume drop in the market. There is a very negative price mix. Stefania, our CFO, will give you an update on this. And there are a huge amount of promotional activities everywhere. On the other side, we are paying in our EBIT, in our EBITDA, the investment, which is massive, which is continuous, which is also important in this specific phase of the year in which we are launching LHOV in our cooking transformation. That for us represents the major asset in which we are investing that for us represents the future and the biggest opportunity that we have in our hands. On the other side, we are balancing all of these negatives with the usual focused approach on cost management, cost reduction and procurement activities. From a net financial position perspective, we saw our net debt remaining basically in line with the previous quarter and with the same period of the previous year. On other side, having the beneficial effect of the cash-in of the stake sale of our -- part of our participation in Elica India but on the other side, also an opportunity for the year-end coming from the fact that our inventories were, I say, built imagining a different August and a different September. So we started immediately an inventory reduction plan in order to dramatically improve this number by the year-end. One of the advantages of the industrial restructuring that we did a couple of years ago was the fact that versus the past, we are extremely flexible. We are extremely flexible in Poland. We are extremely flexible in Mexico to serve North America. And we have, I can say, 1/3 of the products that were made in Italy before in our Italian plant. So despite Italy remains not so flexible like the other plants, the risk related to the Italian production is dramatically lower. If we look the 9 months in the dynamic perspective, year-on-year, we are losing almost 5% organically versus the first 9 months of 2023. With that, I would say, a quarter 3 that from a comparison base seems to represent the baseline. We do not expect the market to go so much lower. But the signal is that, how can I say, the cure hasn't arrived yet. So what we imagine is at least with a limited possibility to imagine the evolution of the demand that we have today in 2025, that will be let's say, slightly below in terms of demand than 2024. We imagine that the government policies in the U.S., but also in Europe will have sooner or later an effect of cutting back a demand that is penalizing the houses that is penalizing, as I also read in some other peers' reports, the built in, and we are a built-in company because [indiscernible] and all the new range is built in. But we see an opportunity for the very last part of 2025. For the first part as well as for the last quarter of this year, we only have to count on ourselves. From a margin perspective, we are where we were supposed to be with this huge amount of investment. The very good thing is that the debt is there, didn't change versus last year despite India, not thanks to India, but also despite dividend pays, investment made and, let's say, with an opportunity of improving this figure with the proper stock management by the year-end. I'll have the stage to Stefania to have some drill down on industry trends and on our sales performance.

Good afternoon to everybody. Start on Slide #7. Here, you have the European market demand. The market is still declining, with major impact on the built-in kitchen category, mainly linked to the new housing and the renewal. In fact, if you look the data -- the data, the year-to-date for what is concerning the freestanding products is showing a slight recovery. If you come to our sector, the sellout for cooker hoods still recorded a negative quarter, minus 3% with some important markets like France that is still recorded for the second consecutive year, a double-digit decline. If you look at the aspiration hob market, we can see that there is a slightly positive trend, [indiscernible] slightly positive trend, but we are referring a market that category that represents less than 10% of cooker hoods market. The size -- the full year size for the cooker hoods is 5.5 million of units. The market size for the aspiration hobs is 0.5, so less than 10%, where there is some market like Germany that is the biggest market for this category is mainly flat compared to the last year and some important market for us like Italy that turned negative with a double-digit decline compared with the last year. Overall, this category is suffering if we compare also to the trend and the growth that has recorded during the last 2 years. In terms of price, if you go to Slide #8, the weak customer demand and the reduced power of purchasing continue to affect the negative price, both for the 2 categories, but more evident for the aspiration hobs, where it in place a strong promotional activity down from our competitors to catch opportunity to growth in this category. If we move to the American market, the North American market, we have the same scenario where the housing market is still negative, affected also in this case by the high rate of the mortgage and cooking categories are negative drag from this phenomenon. In terms of ventilation, the market is minus 3%. And we put also the reference for the Cooking market, so not only aspiration hob not only ventilation, but also a cooker, the market recorded a decline versus the previous year of minus 7%. Also this case for the American market, according to the data of AHAM, if you look at the categories for freestanding segment, they are recording a positive trend. So it's confirmed that this kind of products are linked to the crisis related to the new housing. Moving to the sector of our other division for the Motor. In terms of heating market, the segment, the data is updated to the quarter 2. We have still not received the last quarter. Also in this case, the market, there is no signal of recovery where despite -- and comparing to the previous quarter, the loss is minus 22% despite the Q2 of 2023 was the lowest quarter in terms of units sold. We are referring only to boilers in this case. And below, you have also a snapshot regarding the U.K. market and Germany market, where you can see that they are facing a strong market drop than in some cases, also half of the market of the previous year. If you're referring to the pump market, this market is completely local. What is very important that all the markets, European markets are working on incentive scheme for -- according the green deal. And in some case, like Italy, there is also a proposal a discussion to the possibility to keep the Ecobonus also for gas boiler with an exemption respect to the green bill. According the green bill, starting from 2025, the government should stop incentive to the gas boilers. But in this case, market [indiscernible], they are thinking to propose to continue to support this kind of category due to the application of the energy transition. In terms of sales, moving to Slide #12. Q3 sales, Giulio said, so this quarter with EUR 104 million of turnover is minus 1.3%. The 9 months, we have a level of turnover EUR 340 million that compared to the previous year, organic sales are minus 4.8% with a negative impact of currency for EUR 0.4 million equal to EUR 1.4 million. Moving to the dynamics. In terms of -- Slide #13. In terms of dynamics, we can see a motor division that recorded a very good performance, plus 9%, but compared with the worst quarter of the last year. But by the way, it is a positive signal because it still compared to the market that is still negative. Thank you to the good performance and our ability capacity to gain market share in some strategic customers for the heating segment. Cooking is in line with the market despite the strong promotional activity and then competitive scenario and the price over run. If you look at the year-to-date data, the Motor is minus 9%. So also in this case, we can say that it's better than what the market is recording. And the Cooking is aligned to the market, minus 3.6% if you look at the organic growth. And in terms of -- going towards to Slide #14, in terms of breakdown by region, what we would like to highlight is the performance in America. Performance also in this quarter continued to be positive, plus 8.3%, thank you to the successful strategy to implement direct distribution for the North America with the opening of 2 new distributors during the late 2023. And according to this, we are performing more than 30% of growth with our brand. And also in terms of 9 months results, the trend is the same of the current quarter. If you going to Slide #15, moving to channel breakdown between cooking -- inside the cooking between UM own brand. UM in this quarter is substantially flat versus the last year, driven by some stock measurement put in place as a consequence of a slow recovery of market demand. The own brand is minus 6% with a positive performance in America, as I said before, more than 30% compared to the last year, but still negative in EMEA region to the impact of some markets like France and Germany and Italy that for us are strategic market in Europe for our brand. In terms of 9 months, the result is almost the line with the current quarter. So UM positive to the performance that we are doing in the UM, thanks also to the new projects that we started with some heritage customer for UM also thank you to the new customer that we activated during 2023. Our brand is negative minus 8%.

So investing on the future, October and November will be two important months in terms of communication, in terms of media activities, in terms of launch. We have our new product, LHOV, being distributed in these days all over Europe, and we will use LHOV as a testimonial of our transition to being an extraordinary cooking company. It's an important part of the year. It's an important part of our investment because in a difficult moment like the one we are having in our industry, it represents a huge effort from our side. But again, we want to do it now, to start it now with a very loud tone of voice because we see that there is a lot of interest. We see that there is a huge opportunity. We see that our customers are very positively reacting to the novelty that we are putting in the Cooking segment. So if you go to Slide #17, we are activating our transformation on three main channels. First of all, we need to explain, we need to motivate, we need to give evidences of the transition that we are in. And the fact that this represents a huge value, not only for us, but mainly from our customers. And our customers, as you know, as we've been telling many times, are mainly the kitchen makers in Italy, in Europe, everywhere. We are working on the awareness because moving from being the preferred specialist in aspiration to being a cooking company means to be louder, means that your brand needs to be associated more than before to specific values, to an idea, to a lifestyle. This is why [ Ducati ]. This is why also our communication, we try to cover not only the products, but the inspiration that is behind Elica Brand -- Elica new brand positioning. And of course, the reputation, which is an asset. Reputation means leveraging on our expertise, on our degree as a leading expert, but means also leveraging the fact that we have our sales force everywhere, that our brand is #1 in Europe in our, I would say, all the segments, and that our brand is in whatever kitchen makers, kitchen producers in Italy, in France, in Germany, in Spain, in Eastern Europe, in U.K. So this is the asset that we want to maximize in terms of value and in terms of rotation for our customers because this will make the difference. It's a long journey. It's not something that will happen the 1st of December once we will have finished our media campaign, but we know that we need to invest on it and this is the right moment to do it. The following slide is briefly explaining our cross-channel media plan, which is made of TV, which is made of print and digital advertising. And of course, we will be dramatically stronger in terms of digital and social, reaching all of the channels where we believe there are our customers, where we believe there is somebody that can be interested in Elica brand evolution and of course, in Elica products and Elica novelties. And LHOV represents for sure the best entry door we could imagine to propose ourselves as a Cooking company.

Coming back to the results and financial part. Going to the P&L, Slide #20. In terms of profitability, the quarter 3, in terms of profitability, EBITDA margin and EBIT margin are consistent with the first 6 months despite lower revenue and the negative impact of volume and the fixed cost absorption. We preserve our margin, thanks to the strong cost management, both for SG&A and catch all the opportunity in terms of raw material costs and components. In terms of net profit, we have for the quarter, EUR 6.3 million of net profit, out of which EUR 5.9 million pertained to the group. Thank you also to the positive effects of India share sales capital gain that is around -- with a positive impact of EUR 6 million. In terms of 9 months, we have a result of turnover of EUR 360 million, with the less EUR 20 million versus last year, with a margin at 7.2%, with a gap versus last year of 2 points, affected by lower volume, negative price mix, the investment to grow. So Giulio already said what we are doing in terms of cooking transformation to support our mid-term strategy. The negative impact of labor inflation, all of these partially offset by, repeat again, the strong focus and commitment on our cost management. Last, in terms of results, in terms of financial items in the 9 first months in addition to the positive effect of the capital gain of India, our financial costs for that side are in line with our expectation higher than the last year of EUR 2 million, but in line with our expectations due to the high cost for the debt. Moving to net financial position. The net financial position is stable versus last year despite the pressure in EBITDA margin. We are losing EUR 15 million versus the last year, but we are flat in terms of net financial position, thank you to good management of our net working capital. DSO and DPO are under control. The level of inventory in Q3 due to the slow recovery of the market demand increased for EUR 3 million, but we have in place a stock plan reduction that represents an opportunity for our year-end to preserve our level of tax and we are working on it. In the current quarter, there is a positive impact that in terms of cash in India, that is around EUR 7 million that helped us to keep a solid debt in a quarter that due to the seasonality, due to the low level of revenue are typically a quarter where there is a deterioration of net financial position. And the CapEx are under control below the last year with a strong focus on all the investments that will bring us a growth for the next year. And in terms of lira, we are absolutely below our covenant, so 1.5x below our covenant that was set at 3x the relation between EBITDA and financial position. Slide #22 represents the trend of our inventory. As I said, the inventory increased versus the last year EUR 14 million but we have strictly plan to come back again to closing of the last year. I leave the stage to Giulio for the closing remarks.

Okay. So to give a picture of the industry in which we are living. On the left side of Slide 24, there is the last 2 years -- 2 years and 8 months trend of European cooker hoods industry. Basically, we're talking about minus 20, minus 21 versus 2021, which was kind of plus 11 versus 2020. So that specific moment is absolutely far away in the time and also in the way we are managing our commercial and industrial operations, of course. You see that the main markets, Germany, France, Italy, negative everywhere. If you look -- if we look on the right side and we imagine what could be a reasonable guidance for our results this year, considering that we have a quarter to go, we do not expect because we are seeing also in the Motor division, how the orders are moving, how our customers are reacting to this situation. We do not expect the market to change direction, not in quarter 4 this year and not even, I would say, at least in the first 6 to 9 months of next year. So this is the world that we need to play in. This is the world -- the demand that we need to play. What we have seen, but unfortunately, we do a different job is in the last part of this year in Europe, but also in North America, the freestanding market starting to give some signal of being alive but that's mainly substitution. My washing machine is broken, is in the canteen, I have to buy a new one, I go to the MediaMarkt [indiscernible] in a mall in the U.S. and I buy a new one. We are freestanding. Freestanding is a different kind of championship versus [indiscernible]. So in the future, we expect our revenues to be in the region of EUR 450 million. I understand what I said, a very weak European demand that will be partially balanced by a positive performance of our brand in North America, which will continue and the market share gain that we have achieved so far. Also from an OEM perspective, the very last part of the year will be difficult because of the market and because these are big guys that, at the end of the year, need to keep their stock, the cleanest possible and exactly as we do. We see margins consistent with the first 9 months. Why? Because we're keeping our investment plan because quarter 4, as we mentioned in the communication part of this presentation, it's important and needs to be done now. Now that we have the new product being launched, now that is the moment to become something different to keep the path of becoming something different, with the net financial position that we imagine is absolutely under control, so we know significant changes versus what we see today. Looking to next year, what could be preliminary, very preliminary, I would say, expectations. As I mentioned, low expectation for a market recovery. It will take time. Even if at the beginning of the year, the interest rate will be lowered again and it will be affordable for [indiscernible], to start thinking to buy a new house, he will search for the new house, he will finally find it, he will make an offer, the offer will be refused. And then finally, he will have a deal, he will cash a loan, he will call an architect. The architect will make the new house simulation. And finally he will go to the kitchen maker that we are sure we'll be able to sell him a cooker hood, but also an induction plan, induction of -- and an oven, if not directly a LHOV made by us. But we are talking about next October, if we are lucky, if everything happens. One thing is sure, U.S. will recover first. Statistically, every election period, independently from who is the winner, there is a kind of reaction of the market. And we all know that U.S. market is more elastic than European one. So we are sure that the opportunity coming from the life of the housing sector will come. It's for sure, difficult to imagine that it will have a significant effect on next year numbers. What is sure is that when this will happen, we will be a different company. Why? Because our strategy is and will remain focused on our midterm priorities. So the transformation in a cooking company. So empowering our distribution network, continuing to expand our distribution in North America and in Europe, even through M&A, through sustainable, intelligence, geographically working M&A. Market share growth in OEM and Motors. We understand that this is an advantage that we have an opportunity that we have. We will probably discuss later on in the conversation. But this year, market share was able to balance at least the 50% of what we lose from the trend of the market. Offshore, all of this part, which is a costly part, especially in a moment of low pricing -- a low demand, we need to do ensuring the financial sustainability of the past, whatever time it will take to become a reality. This is why, and this is just the last slide of the presentation, we believe that the midterm vision remains solid. And without going through the lines, we have discussed in other kind of meetings, we have some evidence that the things written in this piece of paper are working when you do it. North America and Canada direct distribution. This year, we will reach our super record in North America, EUR 20 million, while -- with a growth of 40%. 3, 4 years ago, we're doing barely EUR 5 million in North America. And EUR 7 million of this EUR 20 million is coming from the new distributors that was implemented in quarter 4 last year. So it's growing, it's the right thing to do and is also quick in coming back. Netherlands, we mentioned very -- also often the biggest market -- the second biggest market in Europe for aspirations. We were not present in Netherlands. By the end of the year, we will be there with our legal entity, with our people, with a focus on Elica brand. Australia, it's a big thing in this moment. But thanks to the partnership with [indiscernible], which is a very strong brand in Australia, this year, we will reach EUR 0.5 million. EUR 0.5 million is not a big number, of course. But last year, we were doing EUR 150,000. So again, it's a start, but it's time too. If I look to OEM, IKEA from the quarter 4 next year of the 40,000 aspiration hobs sold annually by IKEA, we will be doing 50% because we won the bid versus a competitor, let's put in this way. So this will be minimal, at least 25% of the potential will be in 2025, 2026, 20,000 aspiration hobs, means a 20% growth in our aspiration hobs business in terms of unit. LG, we mentioned first order after a very long chain of approval because Koreans are like Germans, they correctly want to be sure that everything is in place. But we are talking about the business that as it starts, it's in the region of EUR 3 million. So again, an opportunity, which is material in our numbers. BSH, again, growth in OEM. BSH, we have became any level supplier. That means the most trustable supplier in our sector that they have. That means that when there is an opportunity for new products, we have the [indiscernible]. So this year, we have increased our turnover with BSH in the region of 30%, arriving almost EUR 20 million, while last year was EUR 15 million opportunity. What we are saying, we are doing. And also, if I look to our Cooking part, despite it is a difficult part because people are cooking since the age of fire basically. What we see is that this year, we will be selling our cooking range. So whatever is not a cooker hood for almost EUR 1.5 million, EUR 2 million. Last year, not considering the market, considering that we started, considering that we were not listed as we are from September this year in the catalogs of our customers, the total value was in the region of EUR 600,000, EUR 700,000. So it's times 2. Times 2 is what happened to Nikola Tesla, the first year that it was launched. Year 1 was, if I remember, were EUR 0.5 million. Year 2 was EUR 1 million. Year 3 was EUR 3 million, and then it exploded. Same, and then I cut myself of what is happening in North America with our induction hobs and aspiration hobs produced in Mexico. We started last year with EUR 0.5 million in terms of revenues. This year, it will be more or less EUR 1.2 million, EUR 1.3 million. Again, it's a small number, but it's time to -- with the distribution that is growing and with the opportunity that induction have in the U.S., which is very much late versus what is happening in Europe. So we are absolutely positive on the vision that we shared at the beginning of the year. But again, it's a midterm vision. With a market like this, mid becomes the key words of what I'm saying. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from Alessandro Cecchini of Equita.

The first one, actually, it's on the raw material input cost reduction this year. I was wondering that at the beginning of the year, we expected around [ EUR 7 million, EUR 8 million ], if I am not wrong. So I would like for the entire year, I would like to understand if this is confirmed. And if you see additional benefits next year or you see the current situation in terms of, of course, logistic plus input cost to remain more or less stable year-on-year. This is my first question. My second question is about the cash generation. So I saw in your presentation rather abundant other nonrecurrent items of minus EUR 9 million. So if you could elaborate a little bit more on this?

Thank you, Alessandro, for the question. Relating to the raw material, yes, at the beginning of this year, our expectation was to have around EUR 8 million of positive effect. Thanks to some kind of raw material that are performing better with a lower price versus our appreciation, we are in the region of to increase the positive effect from EUR 8 million to EUR 12 million. So EUR 4 million more coming from the raw material, mainly related to carbo steel, stainless steel. And our expectation for the next year, unfortunately, there is -- the copper -- there is the price of the copper increased versus our coverage that we have done during 2024. So our expectation is to have a negative impact -- for the moment is around EUR 2 million of negative impact that will come from the copper. For the other raw material, we can still have some carryover slightly carryover positive effects, but not so big like the current year. So slightly positive improvement that can offset the negative impact of the copper, but not so much as EUR 12 million in this current year. So we are still working on the assumption for the next year, but the expectation is to have something that will be in the region of, considering the negative effect of the copper, of EUR 3 million, EUR 4 million positive benefit. But we are also taking consideration that we have to face again to the negative inflation of the labor cost for the next year, in particular, for Poland, Mexico, and slightly also increase of labor cost also for Italy. So to summarize, negative copper, slightly positive carryover for some raw material like carbon steel and then stainless steel, but still negative labor inflation.

Okay. About the cash flow then?

In terms of cash flow, what you are seeing as nonrecurring cost is the residual part for the finalization of the margin. So there are still some costs relating to the final optimization of our industrial footprint because we continue also to optimize the footprint in the European region. Some additional activity in terms of corporate organization, we said that there is a strong focus on cost containment that is regarding also the organization. And we strongly as much possible also the corporate SG&A costs in terms of organization. These are the main effects on nonrecurring costs that you can see reported in the -- our net financial position.

Okay. So basically, the P&L was a rough EUR 2 million at the P&L level, but of course, much higher free cash flow level due to last year, probably? Okay.

It impacts the cash flow, but not impacting the P&L because it was provided in the P&L of last year.

The next question is from Emanuele Negri of Medioblanca.

I have two questions. The first one is on new products. Let's say, ovens and wine cellars and all the products you launched, how much was the contribution in the third quarter from these new products? And what do you expect for the full year '25 maybe? And the second one is on the Motor division. We know that your Motor division has products for both cooking market and the heating market. Can you give us an idea -- rough idea of how much is the weight from the Cooking division in the motor part and the heating? And how this is changing in the last few quarters?

So new products, I would say last year was in the region of EUR 600,000. This year will be between, considering also the estimate part that I'm referring to in the region of EUR 1.6 million, EUR 1.8 million, between let's say, the new ranges. So excluding LHOV because LHOV -- now we have already implemented, I would say, 150 LHOV in the main displays of Europe, we do not expect a product like that to boom. So these numbers do not include the possibility of that delivering LHOV to our customers differently from display. In the second quarter -- the third quarter, I would say that is a very low seasonality quarter in which also a lot our customers, I would say, in August were basically closed the 70% of the time. But I would say that this EUR 1.6 million is growing in terms of orders. So it was minimal in the first part of the year. It started to grow in the third quarter despite it was a quarter with less day of sales, let's put in this way. So the trend is the right one. It doubled within a year despite it is still a number that is low compared to what we do with aspiration hobs and what we do with our cooker hood business. A good example can be -- and this just refers to the wine cellars, what happened in the U.S. In the U.S., we started in 2021 with the wine cellars. This year, we will be selling something like EUR 4.5 million in value of wine cellars. So it works together with a full built-in set. And the fact that we have distribution that, of course, is focused on our products, but also supply range cookers and other kind of products in America helps selling not only the hoods, not only the aspiration hobs, but also all the built-in sets that fully fits the kitchen. For what concerns, the second question was on the Motor division, we basically see a 50-50 share today between heating and ventilation, with ventilation being slightly more than heating. This mainly happened between 2023 and 2024. Before our heating business was, I would say, 55% and ventilation 45%. After quarter 3 of last year, the drop in heating business was huge. So now it's more or less flat, if not slightly favorable to ventilation, that means appliances. What we have seen in quarter 3, for what concern the Motor division, is the heating business then went up in the region of 12%. So despite a negative market, thanks for sure to the non-destocking, but also to the share, there was a growth versus last year, which was double digit. The ventilation business growing in any case, but with low single digits. Now low single digits because from the side, we are supplying fan for aspiration hobs to Electrolux, [indiscernible] and the aspiration hobs sector is not falling like the cooker hoods or the OEM business. On the other side, we are gaining shares also within other minor customers, which are approaching the aspiration hobs business. As Stefania mentioned, it's becoming -- despite we are talking about less than 500,000 units per year in Europe, it's becoming a segment which is more and more democratic. There are opportunities, especially on the low end of the segment. I hope the picture was complete.

[Operator Instructions] Mr. Cocci, there are no more questions registered at this time.

Okay. So thank you very much again for joining our call. Thank you. Have a nice remaining part of the afternoon. Bye-bye.

Bye.