Gartner, Inc. (IT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, and welcome to the Gartner Webinar, the Gartner 2025 Leadership Vision for Product Marketers. This presentation will provide actionable, objective insight, expert guidance and solutions that enable faster smarter decisions and stronger performance on your most critical priorities. I'm Aakash, your moderator for this session. And before we get started, I have a few tips to help enhance your webinar experience. Around the video player, you'll find a variety of ways to interact with the session. [Operator Instructions] To download a copy of the presentation slides and other helpful resources, just navigate to the bottom of the page. [Operator Instructions] This webinar is being recorded, and you can watch this presentation again and find more great insights on demand at gartner.com/webinars. Now I'd like to welcome Gartner, VP Analyst, Rahim Kaba. Rahim thanks for joining us. And now I'll turn it over to you.

Good morning, good afternoon, everyone. Great to be on today's webinar. Just a really quick introduction. For those who don't know me, my name is Rahim Kaba, a VP Analyst in Gartner's product marketing practice. Before joining Gartner, I spent the last 2 decades in various product marketing and leadership roles in B2B tech companies and now at Gartner, I cover a wide range of topics and technologies that touch product marketing teams which I'm excited to explore with you today. The agenda for today's webinar is based on our latest research on key trends affecting product marketers in 2025. We're going to talk about how to clarify the role and impact of product marketing, how to strengthen go-to-market alignment. And lastly, in today's AI-centric world, how to create an AI-empowered product marketing team. Our time is limited, and I want to leave some time for Q&A at the end. So let's jump right into it. If you've worked in product marketing at different companies, you know that the role can vary quite a bit from one organization to another. Over the years, we've seen the role continue to evolve as it gains traction and as executives start to recognize the true value and the true impact of product marketing. Now generally speaking, product marketing teams juggle both upstream and downstream go-to-market responsibilities. This typically involves building a really strong go-to-market foundation through strategy and insights, and ensuring effective execution with sales, with marketing, with customer success teams, for example. Now one key trend that we're seeing at Gartner is the growing need and emphasis for upstream product marketers. These folks typically spend a little bit more time on the left-hand side of this diagram with executives, with product management, for example. They validate market insights. They validate go-to-market decisions early in the go-to-market life cycle to ensure that both product and go-to-market strategies are better aligned, especially before we spend time and resources and budget on things related to downstream execution on the right-hand side of this diagram. Now what we're also seeing, especially in larger B2B tech companies is that the product marketing function is becoming more specialized and more targeted in nature. In our latest research study, which compared 2023 to 2024 data, we're seeing more product marketing teams being aligned to specific industries and verticals. We're also seeing an increase in specialized and dedicated roles like competitive intelligence and sales enablement within product marketing. And we're also seeing more geo-specific product marketers to drive more impact at a regional or field level. Now if you're able to invest in these types of specialized roles, not everybody can, but the benefits if you do are obviously going to be huge. A lot of times, product marketers are spread thin. So specialization, of course, can help your teams drive bigger impact, things like being able to better tailor your strategies and your tactics at a regional or maybe vertical level. Now the executives and key stakeholders in your organization will have different perspectives on the role of product marketing based on their previous experiences. And many of them, unfortunately, might see product marketing as largely a supporting or maybe tactical function. And that's why it's really important that your stakeholders fully understand the broader context and the broader impact that product marketing can have on the business. I'd like to use this tree diagram with my Gartner clients to show that product marketing should really be rooted in an insights-driven foundation that informs how your organization should go to market. The foundation here and the root structure is needed to properly do things like build your positioning and differentiation, which then informs your messaging and your content strategy, which then, in turn, is used to drive your enablement efforts. And without all of these foundational elements, it becomes really difficult to empower the rest of the go-to-market organization to win, to retain and grow your customers. Essentially, all of the content and the channels that you see on the top of the tree which depend on that really solid and strong root structure. One simple and really effective way to do this is to define or, in some cases, refine your product marketing charter. This charter should communicate the role and the purpose of product marketing in your organization, but it should also include a bunch of other things, how you measure the success of the role? How it aligns with key stakeholders and product and sales and marketing, for example? And how work is ultimately prioritized? So in other words, building out a set of prioritization principles that you can use in your conversations with internal stakeholders that are looking for product marketing support. Now if you're a Gartner client, you can schedule an inquiry or a document review with us, and we'd be happy to work with you on all or some of the elements that you see on this slide. Now of course, building out a charter can be tricky, right, especially if there's confusion around ownership. Our research at Gartner, for example, shows that between product management and product marketing it's not always obvious as to who leads and who owns certain activities. There isn't a one-size-fits-all approach because, as I mentioned earlier, there's a lot of variability in how these roles are defined, but our data does give some signals into where these lines of responsibility are typically drawn. So when we ask product marketers and we ask product manager, who leads and who owns certain activities, it's not always -- it's always not clear as to who owns what. But like I said, there are kind of more areas of alignment. So if we look at things like product life cycle activities, they're typically led by product management, not a big surprise. And then there's go-to-market life cycle activities that are typically led by product marketing. But what's interesting is the fuzzy area in the middle, where both roles equally have and share areas of responsibility. It's also probably not a big surprise that this kind of fuzziness in the middle can lead to some overlap and friction and inefficiency if these responsibilities and the underlying activities aren't properly defined in your organization. And that's where responsibility matrices can come in handy to help broker conversations with your counterparts in product management, but also with other functions because these are cross-functional RACI exercises and that can help you clarify roles and responsibilities and ultimately improve collaboration. Again, if you're a Gartner client, you have access to this tool, it includes not only a catalog of all of the product and go-to-market life cycle activities that are involved in defining and bringing products and services to market, but it also includes a sample RACI Matrix based on Gartner's data and our analysis as well. Now let's look at an example. So this is all about market and customer research as a shared area of responsibility between product management and product marketers. Now both roles are typically involved in doing this type of research. But again, it's not always obvious who does what and how these two functions should be working together. We recommend adopting a parallel but connected work streams with product management as you define and bring your products and services to market. There needs to be a continuous two-way exchange between the functions to share and align on research findings that are being surfaced throughout this process. So for example, product managers defining target audiences through ideal customer profile and buyer persona research should be plugged into the product discovery process working alongside product management to support how they define and prioritize solutions on the road map. Both functions need to work in parallel to do this effectively. Now it's also important to recognize that each function has a unique set of goals and questions that they need to address to complete their respective jobs to be done for this exercise in particular. So what you see here is just one example on the market and customer research page. It shows that both functions rely on market and customer insights, but that each function is doing this for different reasons. For example, product management is trying to understand customer challenges to guide product strategy and product development efforts. While product marketing is defining ideal customers and personas and trying to align product direction with customer needs in order to prioritize go-to-market investments and go-to-market decisions. It's really important that we take the time to bridge the gap between these two critical functions and align product efforts to customer needs. And when we do that effectively, we have better aligned product and go-to-market strategies. And we not only avoid kind of that potential overlap of work, but more importantly, we avoid misalignment on things like target audience definitions that really serve as the core element or the North Star for bringing a product or service to market. And this brings us to the second key issue in today's webinar around ineffective cross-functional collaboration. And this could be between product marketing and a whole host of functions inside of the organization. Now product marketing as many of you know, is a highly cross-functional function inside of organizations. Its main role is really to do two things: bring those products and services to market; and number two, ensure their adoption and usage. But the go-to-market strategy and the go-to-market foundation that we talked about itself is a shared initiative. It isn't just a product marketing thing. I'd like to describe a go-to-market strategy as the interconnected set of choices that your organization makes to define a few things, the markets and use cases that you intend to win, the ideal customers and personas you target, the channels you use to reach them, what you sell, so the combination of products and/or services and at what price? And ultimately, what you say to them to win them over. Now the word interconnected is super important in this definition because, again, these decisions shouldn't be made in silos, it requires alignment and it requires collaboration. Now you might be asking yourself, hasn't cross-functional alignment and collaboration always been important. Why is this even more critical now? I've got some data to back that up here. Our research shows that B2B tech companies compared to last year, expect more growth in the next 12 months, and product marketing is the linchpin for driving that growth because a lot of the elements of a go-to-market strategy that we talked about are driven and supported by product marketing teams. So it's really critical that alignment and collaboration is top of mind as we bring our products and services to market because those interconnected set of decisions is going to be really crucial in how you do this effectively, especially in the downstream set of activities that we talked about earlier. Now silos are everywhere in the organization. We all know this is happening, and we've all felt their impact in our professional lives. But if you can break down those silos, if your go-to-market teams collaborate and align on the key elements of your go-to-market strategy, our research shows that your organization is 2 to 3x more likely to exceed its customer acquisition targets. That's huge. And that's why prioritizing internal alignment and internal collaboration is key for growth and commercial success. Now as product marketers, you have an opportunity to play a unifying role in all of this, to drive clarity, to drive purpose in how you bring your products and services to market. For example, ideal customer profile definitions are a common source of misalignment in B2B tech companies. They're either poorly defined and not specific enough or their definition is inconsistent across product, sales and marketing teams. As analysts, we help add precision to your ICP definitions that go beyond the standard firmographic attributes that we typically see when organizations define their ideal customers. So things like industry and geography and size of the company. Those are standard things, but we need to go beyond that. There's an opportunity here to drive more focus in your organization so that your go-to-market teams have a common and shared target audience definition. And when this is done right, it'll optimize how and where you invest in your product, how and where you spend your marketing dollars and how and where your sales teams spend their time to win, retain and grow customers. For example, the bigger impact of misalignment is the negative downstream implications on your buyers and your customers. So what you see here is an example of, let's say, marketing has its own definition of who their ideal customers are, and they're generating leads for sales based on that definition. And if you do that, a few things can go wrong. Sales reps may see that they're being served to bad leads because they don't align with their definition of an ideal customer, and that, that definition isn't necessarily aligned to how they were trained to engage with prospects. If these prospects eventually become customers, that -- they might encounter product issues because of a mismatch between what was built by products and what was promised by sales and marketing. And then when these customers' needs can't be satisfied, at least in the short term, that can lead to retention issues, which can lead to churn. Now if sales, if marketing, if product had all aligned on that initial definition of the ideal customer profile, then that would have avoided some of the inefficiencies the company faced as a result of taking on this type of customer. And that's why I'm a really big fan of opening up the dialogue and creating a go-to-market council that focuses on the development and the governance of a go-to-market strategy, but also the ongoing process of go-to-market improvement. Many of the clients that we talk to have formed these types of councils and they typically include leaders from your customer-facing and your product teams. So think about heads of product, head of sales, head of marketing, head of customer success and some others. And their goal is to establish clear lines of communication to ultimately pinpoint where your go-to-market is broken and then address those issues collectively as a team. This is especially important in larger tech companies where silos are more present because, again, your product portfolios are typically going to be larger and your go-to-market motions are typically also going to be more complex. So I'm going to take a little pause here because I want to do a quick poll from the audience related to go-to-market council. So I'm just curious to know from today's audience, whether you have a go-to-market council or something similar in place, the term go-to-market council might not be in your organization, it might be called a revenue council or could be a new product introduction board, something where you've got your go-to-market leaders coming together and addressing these common issues. So would love to get your answer, just another maybe 10 or 15 seconds, yes or no? Do you have a go-to-market council or a similar group that comes together to address the development and the governance of a go-to-market strategy as well as some of the ongoing improvement that needs to happen in the go-to-market process, yes or no? [Voting]

All right. I think, Aakash, we can end the poll here, and let's take a look at the responses. All right. So the majority do not have one, and it looks like we've got about 1/3 of folks saying that they do. Really interesting. This is an emerging thing that we've been seeing at Gartner come up over the last few years. So again, if that's something that you'd be interested in exploring, again, if you're a Gartner client, we'd love to work with you on this. We've got plenty of examples of how these go-to-market councils are run and the optimal way of looking at these things. But if you're not a Gartner client, let's keep moving. I'm going to give you some pointers about how to make this happen. All right. Let's move on to the next slide. All right. So again, if you're interested in finding ways to prioritize go-to-market alignment in your organization, there are plenty of areas of opportunity, right? So these are the types of things that would be happening in the context of a go-to-market council. I talked about just one example with respect to target audience alignment, but this slide includes 8 specific alignment activities that Gartner recommends for the highest impact to break down organizational silos. They include a few things like process design, tech stack alignment and developing a go-to-market scorecard to measure the overall impact on the business. And actually, that's kind of where I want to go next, which is let's talk about go-to-market measurement as a part of a go-to-market council. So it's very common to see go-to-market teams running their own tech data and analytic stacks to measure business impact. And obviously, that makes having a single version of the truth challenging because data and technology are living in different pockets of the organization. And that's why I'm a big fan of using a concept like this, a unified go-to-market scorecard to monitor the health of your go-to-market as a coalition, right, as part of this broader council. And that allows you to provide direct visibility into performance across the customer life cycle. So we recommend doing this across the buy, the own and the grow stages that you see on the top here in dark blue. So essentially, from the moment a prospect is in buy mode, to when they own your solution, so they've been onboarded. And then ultimately, when those accounts hopefully grow and expand over time. So you want to be monitoring the success at each of these kind of stages of the customer life cycle. What I like about these types of color-coated scorecards is that it helps you tell a story. In this example, we see that the performance is relatively healthy from a buy or prospect perspective. You see a lot of green under the buy category. This company and this example is on track with respect to its revenue targets, its conversion rates, its win rates and so on. It's all indicated in green here. But the story starts to change a little bit when prospects turn into actual customers. So in this scenario, customers generally aren't reaching the necessary milestones in the product after being onboarded. Essentially, they're not seeing value fast enough, and that's why you see the time-to-value metric highlighted in red. There's things in the back end that are happening here. You might have product analytics that's looking at this and comparing it to the targets that you have and when they're not met, this shows up as red as you see in this example. And in the grow phase of the customer life cycle where we're trying to grow and expand customers, there are similar challenges. In this case, related to retention. This is just an illustrative example. I'm not suggesting here that these metrics are the right one. The specific metrics that you will use will vary and it will depend on what's important to your organization and the goals that you've set for your products, for your company as a whole. The key point I want to make today is that you want to have this unified go-to-market scorecard to have a single version of the truth, one that clearly showcases where you're performing well, so that you can potentially double down in those areas, but also identify at-risk areas so that you can create action plan as a go-to-market council to quickly course correct. And if you get this right, our research shows that organizations that prioritize cross-functional alignment of metrics nearly triple the likelihood of exceeding new customer acquisition targets. Again, a really compelling statistic that shows the value of doing this exercise. And that's why go-to-market has to be a team sport. We've heard this before. A product issue isn't just a product management problem. A lead generation issue isn't just a marketing problem and a win rate issue isn't just a sales problem. These are all go-to-market problems that require all hands on deck to diagnose and address the challenges at hand as a coalition. This starts with the go-to-market council, but then it requires cross-functional collaboration and alignment at the team level. The fusion teams, the pods that are going to be addressing some of these identified problems. All right. So I was a recent product marketing leader myself, and I know that go-to-market alignment is it's hard work. It's not trivial stuff. But if you suspect that your go-to-market is broken, I recommend start by looking at alignment issues. And you can use the 8 indicators of go-to-market alignment in the slides that I showed earlier to diagnose where things might be broken. My recommendation is just stay engaged with your go-to-market counterparts in product and marketing and sales and keep working on go-to-market alignment until it becomes the way we do things around here. Now you probably guess that we couldn't go without mentioning the word AI or generative AI in today's webinar. And that's what the last key issue and opportunity is all about. GenAI, generative AI, in particular, is clearly transforming every enterprise in every industry, and that holds true for the product marketing function in B2B tech companies. The technology has become the ultimate product marketing teammate for things like messaging development, content creation and market and competitive research. But as tech companies like yours increasingly bringing AI, including GenAI and Agentic AI products and services to the market. This also requires product marketers to effectively communicate the value of those offerings, especially when it seems like every vendor out there today is leading with AI in their messaging. So AI differentiation becomes a critical product marketing capability. Now productivity and efficiency continue to be the biggest drivers for product marketers when it comes to AI. They're looking to do more with fewer resources and accelerate the speed of producing insights and deliverables. And that's being showcased in the data that we see at Gartner. But we recommend that you go beyond these internal use cases and look for opportunities to drive go-to-market innovation using AI. And I'll dive into the how to do that in just a moment. But before I do that, I want to stay on this productivity theme just for another minute. You likely already have solutions in your martech or your sales tech stacks to drive up productivity using GenAI. Here are just a few examples. From AI-assisted content development to using market and competitive intelligence tools to automate the gathering and analysis of intelligence to summarizing large volumes of win-loss data, but also building interactive learning content for sales enablement purposes. The opportunities within your tech stack are endless, and they're growing with every single release from the vendors that you're working with. So spend time getting to know these emerging capabilities so that you can take advantage of them within product marketing. Now beyond these internal productivity use cases as product marketers, you're probably occupied with how to bring your own AI product -- AI-powered solutions to market. 89% of tech marketers we surveyed last year told us that they've embedded or plan to embed GenAI into their offerings over the next 12 months. But as you've probably seen, everyone is talking about AI, GenAI, Agentic AI in their messaging. The market already feels like it's super crowded and super noisy. And that means differentiation just got a lot harder, for many reasons. For example, many GenAI-powered solutions are built on the same foundational models from Google, from Meta, from OpenAI. And that in itself can make technical differentiation really difficult. So how can we actually differentiate? How can we stand out from the pack? To identify competitive differentiators, it's important that you look at this through the lens of the buyer and what they actually care about. So in other words, what are their outcomes? What are their top selection criteria? If you try to differentiate on expected outcomes, things that every customer is trying to achieve, you'll likely end up in the table stakes zones where every tech provider does and offers the same thing. You want to aim for the top right-hand corner which we call the differentiation zone where you address important selection criteria and you also address outcomes that your buyers value but may not have initially expected. Now a simple and lightweight approach to test the uniqueness of your differentiation is the swap test. Essentially, you select a differentiator in your product or service, and you swap in the name of a competitor. If the statement still holds true with the competitors' offering, then your differentiator needs to be strengthened. If it isn't true, however, then you likely have a true differentiator on your hand. Now if you still can't get over the differentiation hurdle in the swap test, if your stuff sounds exactly the same as what your competitors claim. Then you'll need to find other ways to strengthen it, at least until the product or your company itself introduces new areas of differentiation. And to do that, you can do this by using the three methods that you see on this slide. You can add detail you can add a time dimension or you can add evidence or some sort of tangible proof point. Let's double-click on the third one around adding evidence just as an example. So instead of saying something like our projects are up and running, providing fast time to value. you could say something like AI projects usually take 3 months to deploy, but our clients are up and running in 3 weeks or less, a much stronger statement that the competition may not be able to say. And in this scenario, you want to even strengthen it further, and you can do that by adding a customer proof point, a link to a case study, a testimonial, just to add additional credibility to your claim so that it can be trusted and believed by your buyers. Now from a skill set perspective in today's AI race, product marketing teams need to invest in improving their AI and data expertise. And we recommend a couple of ways to do this. You may already have an AI literacy program in your organization through internal training opportunities, hands-on projects or maybe even through mentorship. But there are lots of external resources out there, including access to Gartner, we research and analysts on these topics as well as organizations like the data literacy projects to write that one down, that provides free assessments to identify gaps in your skill sets that you can improve on. There's also this concept called internal communities of practice that may exist in your organization as well. These communities essentially bring experts and cross-functional teams together who share a passion for a specific topic like AI. And they offer training opportunities and the ability to cross-pollinate on lessons learned throughout the organization. Now these communities offer both personal and organizational benefits from developing individual knowledge to improving decision-making and things like increasing talent acquisition and retention, especially for talent that value these types of programs and communities. So definitely check with your HR or learning and development teams to explore whether you have access to both internal and external programs for upselling on all things AI. And if you're a Gartner client, we have a number of research notes on communities of practice that you can dive into to learn more about how to potentially set one up if you don't have one already. And with that, if you're a Gartner client, let's connect. We always welcome the opportunity for inquiries and document reviews to dive deeper on all things, product marketing. This slide has a bunch of examples of what our clients are asking us on a daily basis. If you're not a Gartner client, that's okay, stay connected with us. Follow our Gartner for High Tech page on LinkedIn for some freebie content or you can listen to one of our Gartner podcast out there. My personal favorite is Gartner's Time To Value podcast, which is specifically for B2B product marketing and product management teams. All right. With that, I'm going to hand it back to Aakash, because I think we've got some questions in the queue that we can start jumping into. Aakash?

Thanks so much Rahim for sharing your insights, and we have time to take some questions now. [Operator Instructions] Before we get to the Q&A, here are some resources to take you deeper into the topic. Access more research-backed insights to master your role and transform your business at a Gartner Conference. Visit gartner.com/cal for a full list of upcoming Gartner Conferences. If you want to learn more on how Gartner can help you achieve your mission-critical priorities, contact us via the methods on this slide. You can download these resources from the bottom of the page plus, you can find more Gartner insights, access the presentation slides and see upcoming and on-demand webinars at gartner.com/webinars. Okay, Rahim, over to you to address the questions.

All right. It looks like we've got a bunch of questions in the queue. So I'm going to try to pick out a few at least that we can dive into over the next 7-ish minutes that we have left. This one is interesting. So the concept of a go-to-market council is interesting. Can you give us an example of an issue that was resolved in an organization that stood one up? Yes. Okay. So this one is interesting because we do get a lot of questions around these go-to-market councils or just more broadly speaking, how do we identify things that are broken in the process. That slide that I showed you earlier around the 8 indicators of go-to-market alignment, it's a really good place to start. So I recommend you start there. But what I will say just in general, is the organizations that I talked to that face alignment issues, the big ones that come up are messaging alignment. And this one is interesting because if you've got sales and marketing teams that are saying different things. So marketing is saying stuff on their website that doesn't necessarily align with, but sales is saying, this can cause confusion in the buying journey. And that's critical because if you're driving -- if there's confusion with your buyers, if you're adding friction to the buyer's journey, that's going to either potentially stall your deals or that's going to get the buyer just to go to another vendor that is less confusing in their messaging. So the go-to-market councils is a good opportunity to come back and say, where is the disconnect? Why are these teams not aligned in messaging? And that could be because, again, the examples I gave in the webinar was there isn't alignment on the ideal customer profile and the personas that we're going after. So if you don't have alignment there, you're going to have a domino effect later in the process that can lead to areas of misalignment from a messaging perspective. All right. There was another one here that was tied to the alignment piece. So yes, so what are some of the strategic initiatives that would be aligned with the go-to-market scorecard? Can you share any examples with us? So the go-to-market scorecard can be used for lots of different types of go-to-market scenarios in your organization. The typical one is a new product launch or a new service launch. That's the easy one, because that is a big initiative, a complexity initiative. It's a cross-functional initiative. So you can set out the objectives for the launch earlier on in the process, set those metrics as well and then use the go-to-market scorecard as a framework to come back and review the effectiveness of that launch. But it doesn't necessarily just need to be launch related, because go-to-market goes beyond product launches. So you could have scenarios where you've got an existing product, but you're going into new markets. So you're expanding into new market segments. You can use the scorecard to evaluate the effectiveness of a market expansion initiative. You might also, for example, be introducing a new go-to-market motion. So let's say that you've introduced a product-led growth motion for an existing product. So you're adding a free trial, a freemium, some other form of a product-led growth motion inside of your organization, and you want to look at the effectiveness of that motion, and you can use the scorecard to determine that as well. And the last example I'll give is a go-to-market strategy that's really tied to displacement, competitive displacement. So let's say, it's a rip and replace type of strategy. You can also use the scorecard again to evaluate how you're doing from the buy, the own and then the grow perspective as well. All right. Here's one that says, can you share your best tips when writing messaging and positioning for product launches? What are some of the considerations PM should think about before launch? It's a really good question. So what I would say one thing is we need to decouple positioning for messaging. A lot of what we see at Gartner when we talk to clients and we try to diagnose what's happening in a launch process in the scenario that you provided is that positioning and messaging happen together, and we need to separate those things. Positioning needs to happen way earlier upstream in the process. So when the solution is being defined by product management, product marketing should be working alongside them to start building out that positioning and essentially the value proposition. So the target audience is one thing, but then what are the problems that we're solving? Why are we solving those problems? And then how do we solve those problems? And how do we solve those problems better than other alternatives in the marketplace? If that sounds familiar, that's what positioning is, right? That's part of the positioning framework. And that is going to be important because that's an internal strategy and that positioning should evolve as you progress through the product development cycle, because things are going to get added to product scope, things are going to be taken out. So the positioning might change. But once it gets to a stable place, once you've got code freeze, once you know exactly what's going to be in the product, you can then take that positioning work and now you can start spinning off messaging at the persona level. So I think that would be one thing is make sure that positioning is injected earlier in the process working alongside product management so that it's not an afterthought. It doesn't all happen at the same time, a few weeks or a few months before launch, it should be done way earlier in the process. All right. Let me pick out. Let's see another one here. I'm just going through a few of them to see if there's anything here. Okay. So this is related to the one that I just talked about. So I agree that product marketing needs to be brought into the process earlier into product development process. But how can we convince -- sorry, the thing disappeared. How can we convince product teams to do that? Okay. That's 100% valid. It's a difficult thing to do because often product teams are working in silos and adding additional people can cause a little bit of disruption. What I would say here is that it all starts with ensuring that your stakeholders and product specifically understand the negative consequences to the business when product marketing isn't brought in earlier. So what I recommend is providing a few real examples and data for maybe past experiences or past launches to help kind of create -- connect the dots for the product teams. I would also say is that you want to ensure that you identify the key stages in the product life cycle, where you think it makes sense to collaborate and get a head start on things like buyer persona research or again, like I said, positioning work. This will depend on the remit of product marketing. And so that might require a bit of changing of the culture inside of the organization. I think the main point here is that product marketers don't need to be in every single product meeting or product development meeting or sprint review, for example. There should be stages in the process where it makes sense where you can bring in product marketing a little bit earlier. I gave you some examples of that in the market and customer research part of the flow, I think that's a great opportunity to say, hey, we're doing some persona research or we're doing some win-loss research, we've got insights from customers and from buyers, we can add value to the product discovery process as well. So I think this requires us building those bridges. It's not easy. But I also think you want to add rigor to your launch and release planning processes so that it signals to the rest of the organization. That product marketing is not only part of go-to-market execution and not only part of the go-to-market team, to be honest, it's also part of the product team as well. That's why we've got the word product and product marketing. Okay. With that, we have reached our time. There's a whole bunch of other questions that I'd love to get to in the queue. But what I'll say is we'll try to get to those on a one-on-one basis. Happy to connect with some folks on LinkedIn as well, and we can try to connect on some of those key issues that you brought up. Aakash, you want to wrap things up for today?

Thank you, Rahim. And before you go, just a quick reminder that you can download the presentation slides and other resources from the bottom of the page. [Operator Instructions] All right. With that, I'd like to again thank our presenter. And of course, thank you for joining us. Have a great day, everyone, and goodbye.