GFT Technologies SE (GFT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the GFT Technologies Preliminary Figures Half Year 2025 Conference Call and Live Webcast. I am Mattilde, the Chorus Call operator. [Operator Instructions]. The conference must not be recorded for publication or broadcast. At this time, it's my pleasure to hand over to Andreas Herzog, Head of IR. Please go ahead.

Thank you, operator. Welcome to our conference call on our preliminary numbers for the first half year 2025, which we published yesterday evening together with an adjustment to our 2025 guidance. The press release and also the corresponding slides for this call are available on our website. Our CEO, Marco Santos; and our CFO, Jochen Ruetz, will go into detail regarding the numbers and also the outlook and of course, will be available for your questions we will surely have afterwards. I welcome Marco today from Brazil, where he is on a business trip. So please excuse me, maybe some delays in communication. And without further ado, Marco, I would like to hand over to you.

Thank you very much, Andreas. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. Let me start by recognizing that to convene ahead of the official earnings release is scheduled for August 7 is not what we originally expected, and we chose to do it now for one very important reason, transparency. As soon as we had clarity that our 2025 guidance required a reassessment, we made the decision to act swiftly, speak openly and invite you now because in times of change, we believe that trust is not built by waiting, it is built by being clear, timely and direct. And that's exactly what we are here to do today. Everything we will talk about today, the results, milestones, transformational initiatives, the guidance revision; all of it is rooted in our 5-year strategy. The decisions we are making now are not reactive. We are in the driving seat. We tackle structural challenge and implement strategic turnarounds, not because we have to, but because we choose to. Our goal is and remains to turn GFT into a fully AI-centric company that can scale, innovate and lead globally in AI, digital transformation and hyperscale platforms. Having said that, let's move to our first slide, Slide #3. I must say that we delivered a resilient preliminary first half of the year results, and we actively adjusted the 2025 guidance based on FX headwinds and specific turnaround initiatives. Let's have a look at the first half of 2025. We have achieved a resilient EUR 442 million in revenue, which represents 3% of growth and a strong 7% of growth in constant currencies. This is an important achievement for all of us. Our EBIT adjusted was EUR 30 million, which represents 6.8% EBIT adjusted margin. In regards to our guidance, on the one hand, we delivered a strong growth in strategic markets such as the U.S.A., Canada, Latin America and APAC. We successfully won 82% of new clients with our GenAI product wins. On the other hand, we were impacted by severe FX headwinds due to the strong euro and performance challenge in the U.K. and Software Solutions, resulting in strategic turnaround initiatives, which I will explain in more details on the next slide. As a result, we decided to adjust our guidance for 2025, and we are expecting revenue to around EUR 885 million, which will represent 2% of growth and 5% of improvement in constant currencies; EBIT adjusted of around EUR 65 million, which will represent 7.3% EBIT adjusted margin. Let's have a closer look at the main drivers I just mentioned. Next page, please. Let me turn first to our strategic turnaround initiative in the U.K. To reiterate, we do not wait to be forced into change. We choose to address the challenge head-on. In GFT U.K., we saw a poor financial performance in fiscal year 2024, with revenue reducing by 14% year-over-year to EUR 116 million, a reduction in the EBIT adjusted margin and a strong decrease in EBT margin from 9.5% to 5.9% last year. This was the result of multiple changes in strategy, leadership team and organizational model over the past years. Revenue and profitability continued to decline in the first half of this year 2025 due to a weak pipeline, project delays, project risks and losses and the low utilization on-site -- of the on-site team in the U.K. The reductions are significant, both in comparison to the previous year 2024 and our original guidance for 2025. With respect to guidance, we are talking about a reduction in revenue of EUR 26 million, in EBIT adjusted of EUR 7 million and in EBT of EUR 10 million. Therefore, it was time to make some tough calls to return to a sustainable path of growth. Among several diligent measures we have already implemented, I would like to highlight the following: change in the leadership, designation of one of our Group Executive Board member full time 24/7 on the ground in London, strategic capacity adjustments, revision of go-to-market strategy and organizational model, searching for new country manager and some key roles, and new governance model for sales, operations and delivery. Other measures are underway. And having said that, we expect 2025 and '26 to be transition years, with margin improvements starting in 2026 and the return to revenue growth in 2027. We are confident that with the measures taken, the U.K. will be a successful market for GFT and a successful integral part of our 5-year strategy. Let me turn to the next page, please. The GFT Software Solutions encompasses 2 units with different products and operational models. Industrial Solutions with Sphinx and Engenion and Financial Services unit with SMARAGD, anti-financial crime and compliance solutions. GFT has invested in both operations and product development to grow the business for some years now. As a result, we saw a continuous decline in profitability. On top, there is a natural demand for recurring, high capital investment to modernize any sort of technology products. This applies particularly to our market-leading and powerful compliance solutions such as SMARAGD. As SMARAGD needs to move to the cloud and be AI-centric, we are committed to invest to stay competitive and ahead of the market. For our 2025 guidance, we now see a negative impact on revenue of EUR 4 million, for EBIT adjusted of EUR 2 million and EBT of EUR 4 million as well, what is also significant compared to the size of this entity. Therefore, we believe that it was the time to make a decisive call to action to create a strategic path of growth and modernization among several measures we have already implemented. I would like to highlight the following: a strategic leadership renewal. We hired a new Managing Director and General Manager for the entity, implemented efficiency programs and measures for capacity adjustments, redesigning the go-to-market strategy per products, working on new sales team, focus on operational efficiency and strategic approach for the modernization of SMARAGD and explore opportunities to partner with external investors and the hyperscalers to accelerate growth, constant modernization and evolution. All the measures are underway. And going forward, we are committed to the strategic evolution of GFT Software Solutions to fulfill our clients' demands for today and for the future. We expect 2025 and 2026 to be transition years, deliver revenue growth in 2027 and an efficient balance of investment and margin in 2028. Now, let's move to the next page, please. FX effects. One external factor we must clearly acknowledge is the strong appreciation of the euro over the past year -- past months. Since March and accelerating further since May 2025, the euro has strengthened significantly against all key GFT currencies. And this higher valuation has remained steady today. Given that approximately 60% of our revenue in the first half of the year and 70% of our profits are generated in non-euro countries, the FX development has had a notable impact across our entire P&L from top line to bottom line. To be specific, the FX evolution has impacted our 2025 guidance by an estimated $20 million in revenue, $3 million in both adjusted EBIT and EBT. If you compare it to the previous year 2024, the impact is even higher with [ $30 million ] in revenue. While these are external macroeconomic effects beyond our control, we take full ownership in proactively adjusting our expectations and communicating them transparently to you, including the growth in constant currencies. And we remain focused on building an operating model that is resilient and diversified, precisely to manage efficiently through this type of volatility. Now, let me move to my final slide on this part. Let's talk about the strong achievements, milestones and strategic wins, which proves that our 5-year strategy is already delivering results. Firstly, and to reiterate, we delivered strong overarching growth in the United States of America, Canada, Latin America and APAC markets. In the U.S.A., we were able to expand one of our Tier 1 clients, a top 3 of the largest banks in the country with a strategic next-generation core banking project with Thought Machine, leveraging over our new offshore delivery in India. In Canada, we continue to see a strong momentum in insurance with the Guidewire platform. And in Brazil, we realized massive growth in a Tier 1 insurance client in Cloud AWS and with our GenAI product Wynxx. In Germany, we entered a multimillion euro contract with NEURA Robotics, our largest AI and software platform projects to date. We also expanded a Tier 1 bank client with long-term strategic contracts in Germany. In Italy, we have been chosen by the European Central Bank as a pioneer for the digital euro. And finally, our GenAI product, Wynxx, delivered a successful strong growth with 82% increase in number of clients from 23 to 42 in Q2. And important to highlight that in Q2, Wynxx was successfully expanded globally to 3 new countries so far. This is our 5-year strategy in full speed, delivering real results, creating impact and differentiation. The milestones and highlights are completely in line with our strategic initiatives such as becoming an AI-centric company, improving Smartshore and revenue architecture with high value-added services, focusing on Tier 1 clients in global accounts and corporate innovation, to name some of them. Now I will hand over to Jochen for a detailed presentation about the figures.

Thank you, Marco. And let's directly move to Slide #9. And before I start, let me mention that we are just in the middle of our half-year audit. And therefore, today, we are looking at the preliminary numbers of the first 6 months, although I do not expect any deviations for the upcoming final numbers. We have kept this part of the presentation, the part that I am sharing with you, quite slim as not all details are available yet, and we wanted to put the focus on the guidance adoption. But now, let's look at the table on Slide #9, start with revenue. As Marco mentioned, solid revenue growth in the first 6 months of 3%, organic 6%, which then is eaten by FX with 4%, and we get 1% positive out of M&A. That is 1 month of Software Solution in Colombia, which we bought in February '24. So January is an M&A effect, January '25 is an M&A effect here. Going to the order backlog, we see a 1% increase. Well, of course, the order backlog has some burden from FX as well. If you would apply the same FX ratio we see above in constant currencies, we would rather be 4% above previous year. Now going directly to the EBIT adjusted, the first half was stable versus the first half of 2024, a growth of 2%, margin nearly unchanged at 6.8%. We highlight on the right side in the small bullet points, the two drivers. So first of all, we already mentioned GFT U.K. and GFT Software Solutions. Both together burdened the EBIT adjusted of the first half year with EUR 3.5 million. In other words, their performance is EUR 3.5 million below their performance last year's -- first 6 months. At the same time, all other GFT units have improved by EUR 4 million, giving us an upswing on the EBIT adjusted of EUR 500,000. Now when we look at the actuals here, and you saw the numbers Marco was sharing for the full year, obviously, the main impact, which is also driving the guidance from U.K. and Software Solutions, is happening in the second half of the year. So we had an impact on the first, but the impact on the second is the bigger part. Going down to the EBT, we are significantly below the '24 numbers. But again, we are highlighting the main reasons on the right side in the small bullet points. And the first one is the biggest driver last year, we had the exceptional provision release due to a fiscal court proceeding in Brazil. It improved the EBT in the second quarter by EUR 10.5 million. That was a one-off and did not happen again in '25. It mostly explains the gap. The other three combined kind of balance out. Capacity adjustments are higher than last year's first 6 months, EUR 7 million versus EUR 4.4 million. You might remember in our initial guidance, we talked about EUR 6 million, EUR 6.5 million of restructuring for the full year. Now we already had to invest into restructuring of EUR 7 million in the first half year. We have a positive upswing from interest and M&A effects, minus EUR 3.6 million versus last year, minus EUR 6.6 million. So that is slightly improving, and we had a little burden on the virtual share effects. All this bringing us to an EBT of EUR 19 million. And last but not least, the tax rate is currently stable at 29%. Let's move forward to Slide #9 and take a look at the second quarter. Starting on the left side with the revenues, second quarter came in with EUR 219.6 million. When we are comparing to the second quarter of last year, that is an increase of 1%, which is preliminary driven by our strong business in the Americas and a bit in APAC, compensating weakness in U.K. and Europe. Now when we adapt for constant currencies, the second quarter growth was more than 1%, then it was 6 percentage points in constant currencies. Comparing to Q2 to Q1, we see a slight reduction of minus 1% to the last quarter. This is mostly driven by billable days. This year, we had the Easter season fully in Q2. Last year, it was half in Q1, half in Q2. This was partially impacting billable days and our overall revenue in the second quarter. Now looking at the right side of this chart, we see the EBIT adjusted at EUR 15.05 million in Q2. Comparing to last year, we see an improvement of 30% despite our U.K. and Software Solutions business slowing us down, the better utilization was materializing and gave us a better EBIT adjustment. It is flat versus the first quarter of this year, EUR 15 million in both quarters. And now going to the third slide from my side today, which is the revenue by global regions. Here, we do see Slide #11. We see dynamic growth in North America, Latin America, which is offsetting the weakness in Europe. Europe is down 6%. And we put on the right side all the different countries, the MEA countries, and we have red numbers behind all of the big ones, Spain, Germany, Italy; which is not how we expected the first half year to go, but the market showed us. Software Solutions is included here, too, at minus 15%, but that is only EUR 9.5 million of revenue. Looking at Latin America, we're up 21%. Brazil growing nicely, Colombia somewhat supported by M&A because we are showing 1 month more here this year than last year. North America, up 14%, both entities, U.S. and Canada, growing double digits. The U.K. is down 19% in revenue, as already prediscussed. And last but not least, our APAC and Others region is up 24%. I think in Q1, we were still flat. So now we're seeing the growth that we have promised because business is brightening up in that market. So in the first half last year, we have seen exactly the opposite picture. We saw Europe grow double digit and North America be double-digit negative. This year, these two markets, they just -- they changed their roles. So in other words, the overall market is still volatile, and that's what we have to work with at the moment. That was my very slim three slides for today. We will publish the normal full deck of slides on the official first half year announcement date, which will be August 7. And that said, for the last slides, back to Marco.

Thanks, Jochen. So let's move to the next slide. Before closing, I'd like to highlight our recent acquisition of Megawork in Brazil, and that's why I'm here in the country now. The acquisition is a key example of our deliberate and laser-focused implementation of our 5-year strategy for revenue growth and margin improvement. With this move, we entered a major global independent software vendor, SAP market, which produce higher margins than traditional software development. We diversify into new client verticals, health care, pharma, public sector, utilities and manufacturing. We gained 350 skilled SAP consulting and technology professionals, an estimated plus in revenue of EUR 4 million and EBIT adjusted of EUR 900,000 with 22% of margin in 2025. We also unlocked high cross-selling potential of SAP offerings into [ Kuhn ] GST clients and on the other hand, leverage [ Kuhn ] GST offerings, especially cloud, data and AI to Megawork clients. We also integrate and leverage our GenAI product wins into SAP offerings, becoming a leading GenAI player in that ecosystem. Considering the SAP S/4HANA migration wave enforced and announced by SAP with the end of mainstream support for ECC in 2027 and extension to 2030, the current consensus is that we will see more than 1,300 SAP migrations in Brazil alone and more than 30,000 on a global basis. My vision is to create a strong differentiation with our GenAI product links and offer a significant 30% plus increase in efficiency in upgrades and migrations. The result will be a faster SAP migration. The combination of GenAI to accelerate the SAP S/4HANA migration wave is a massive, big and highly profitable opportunity for GFT. Therefore, this is not an opportunistic M&A., this is mission-driven expansion, in line with our 5-year strategic initiatives to grow revenue through high value-added and high-margin services. Now, let's move to my final slide. Ladies and gentlemen, we are navigating with clarity, embracing challenge with courage and transforming with conviction. We demonstrated our resilience, achieving solid growth in the first half of 2025 despite global market challenge and strong FX headwinds. We have diligently identified, owned and addressed turnaround initiatives in specific markets as part of our strategy, and we are aware of this impact for our shareholders in the short term. And we are convinced they are an important investment in our future to build a solid foundation for the mid and long term. The AI software and services market is a major opportunity for GFT. We have delivered material results with the global rollout and the strong growth of our GenAI product links and the multimillion euros AI contract for NEURA Robotics in Germany. I am proud that by executing our 5-year strategy focus, clear goals and transparency, we have already created a positive impact for GFT. We are not chasing short-term fixes here. We are building a resilient, differentiated and an AI-centric global company for our clients and partners, our employees and of course, for our shareholders. Thank you very much, and let's go beyond. Now Jochen and myself will be happy to answer your questions.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of Andreas Wolf from Warburg Research.

I have the following questions. Could you please clarify what has changed over the past weeks? Considering that full year guidance was issued in March and the development in the U.K. and software segments should have already been evident. The second question is on the SAP implementation business. Will this be a more important module that is -- that GST is providing within its service portfolio globally as well. So should we expect more acquisitions of this type? And then the third question is regarding H2 and the impact associated with the U.K. and Software business, will both quarters be impacted equally, or will there be a stronger impact in Q3?

Let me start with your first question and link it to the third. What has changed over the last weeks? Well, that's a good question. If we have known -- what we know now, of course, we would have communicated different in March and May, latest in May. We have seen some red flags in May already, but the full amount of project risks, losses, restructurings, capacity adjustments, transformational adoptions we have to do was not visible back then. And as I stated, they are not so much happening in the first half. Most of them are happening in the second half of this year. So while in the first half, we had EUR 3.5 million gap to last year in the second half, the remainder is nearly EUR 10 million. So you see that time-wise, it happens in the second half of 2025. And mostly coming from the U.K., it is around our projects, a very, very dry pipeline that we have experienced, which led to a few project wins over the last weeks, triggering utilization challenges for the second half year. And all these things have started materialize in June, July. So these are the months where this was happening. And again, it's more the outlook than the actuals. I think the EBIT adjusted in the first half year so far was okay. We had some headwinds on the FX side, also on profitability. But overall, it was okay. Our challenge is the second half where, in '23 and in '24, we saw a quite strong second half after always a weak first half. And this year, the second half, due to the U.K. and the Software Solutions business will not stand out so much versus the first half year. So that is our main challenge, and we're going to see it distributed and that would depend a bit on how the project delays come in more in Q3 than in Q4 is what I expect today. So not fully balanced more in Q3 than in Q4. And Marco, would you go for the SAP business?

Yes. Andreas, thanks for the question. Can you please repeat the question on SAP, please?

Yes, sure, Marco. Is SAP implementation going to be an important element of GFT's future service provision for banks i.e., GFT is pursuing a strategy of further expanding these capabilities through acquisitions with the goal of delivering these services globally?

Yes. So let me start. So first, we see a strong potential of growth with high margins on the SAP business, especially on the migrations and upgrades, that is going to be required, right, by SAP over the next years. And that's a massive opportunity. We have thousands, estimated 1,300 in Brazil, clients to be migrated, upgraded in SAP and more than 50,000 large clients in the world. So this is very strong for us. We see that as a high potential of growth area and especially if we deploy our strategy and our products, our skills in terms of AI and Generative AI to accelerate that path as we are already doing for legacy transformation to the cloud with Generative AI. So, I do believe that we can create a competitive advantage, differentiation, leverage over that acquisition and really get new business into these fronts. That's number one. Number two, this also roll out like in cross-sells to our current installed base, which are in -- which are financial service organizations, banks, right, insurance organizations. They all -- most of them have SAP as well, and they all need to migrate as well and upgrade, okay? And on the other way around, we see also upsell from GFT offerings and capabilities into the current clients of Megawork. And, obviously, the next frontier is to globalize this offering with Megawork capabilities and bring that in a global level. So this is -- we definitely see that as an area -- a area of growth with higher margins and softer development for the future.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of Knud Hinkel from Pareto Securities.

I've got 3 questions, if I may. First of all, with regard to the problems you're seeing in U.K. and Solutions market, especially with U.K., you referred to a number of reasons that appeared internally to me. So maybe you can also give us more color what happens in the market there? What are the external reasons for the problems you face in U.K.? And do you see also the risk of spillover effects into other areas, geographics or other markets? That would be my first question. Second question, you had a sizable expense for capacity adjustments in H1. As far as you remember, the utilization rate at year-end was still at above 90%. So quite good. That's my understanding. So the question would be from me that if you have the wrong people on board at the moment and you have to hire more in other areas because you probably -- you will not lay off people and lower your utilization rate is probably not the intention. So that would be my second question. And the third question, could you please remind me what one-off -- what one-offs and which amount of one-offs you expect for the year? What should we expect for the reported EBIT in '25, given the expectation on adjusted EBIT at the moment?

Knud, thanks for the question. So, I am going to take the first one. You -- what we see, okay, in terms of a change in some years ago, we had strong demand from clients in the U.K. to assign professionals on sites in U.K. and the GFT, so we cast that demand. We fulfilled that demand. And I must say that's one element of change on the strategy and approach that the market shifted strongly in U.K. and now strongly pushing and requesting offshore and nearshore, right and left work professionals on-site. So this is something that is to be very transparent when elements that changes on the approach of GFT U.K. strategy. And one of the reasons that today and this last year and this year, we had a considerable amount of people on the ground, on-site and not very well utilized and with no request from clients or the management clients. This is -- as I mentioned at the beginning, this is -- we are addressing that because this is part of our 5-year strategy, the strategy that I launched at the beginning of this year. We want to push the company, GFT move more for smart store services and implement nearshore and offshore services for our clients and provide say, more agility and the high scalable project to our clients with better and optimize the price, okay? So this is the -- so the action to change that element of approach in the U.K. that happened in the past is the already part of our 5-year strategy, okay? So that's one element that I must -- that I would share -- I would highlight. Other elements that in terms of approach and strategy that we had in the past in U.K., we were focused on, I would say, one offering only, very focused on one-off, which is for banking transformation in U.K. which is the implementation of Thought Machines, Mambu's and other next-generation core banking products. Those projects and programs are very -- they are very large by design. It's like implementing an SAP. So it takes a large program. They are large programs, and they take time. Decision-making takes time by design. And we believe that GFT U.K. was too focused, right? So kind of a narrow the offerings only on this. And the sales cycle for those projects take time. And then you have hiccups, right? And then you have values, right? So on the pipeline because it simply takes time. It does not mean that the client is not going to take a decision to change our core banking, but it takes time for the financial service institutions to take a decision to switch core banking. And then we have those values of pipeline and et cetera. So now a strong belief that we need to balance and have a more balance and bring all the key offers that we have on a global scale to U.K., not leading up on the core banking transformations because it's very strategic markets, and we are very well positioned, but also balance out with cloud transformation, balance out with deployment of AI into software development life cycle, balance with AI. It's by AI per se, and other projects, okay, and other services that we are capable of. So we have, let's say, more broader offering. And then you can play better with the pipeline and obviously, the time rights of decision of clients. Okay. So that's my answer. Jochen, I think, you can move to the other ones, right?

I'll pick up the second question, which is capacity in U.K., maybe we have the wrong people. Let me give you the background of our U.K. story over the last 4, 5 years. After COVID, we saw a lot of clients coming our way stating we want to become independent from other locations. We want to onshore people. We want U.K. people on U.K. projects. Again, during COVID quite some time ago, and we onboarded up to 200 people in our own local U.K. production unit. This worked pretty well in '21 and '22. In '23, clients started not growing this segment. They started challenging the prices of locals. And in '24, they said, they forgot about COVID, obviously, and prices U.K. versus nearshore from Eastern Europe or even farther from India, of course, have a major gap. And they stopped buying local resources. That was the first round where we started our capacity adjustments. And truly, 2025 is simply the second round of our clients, not buying our local experts, which is, from our perspective, of course, is a pity, but we can't change client behavior easily. So this is not about technological skills. These are really good people with cloud knowledge, et cetera. But the clients were going again for the lower cost rates. So since '24, continuing in '25, challenge -- heavy challenge on local resources, but demand for near offshore resources is happening. Is this a GFT specialty? Maybe not, but it's also not the standard in the market, that everybody has ramped up local resources in the years '21, '22, that part might be self-inflicted on the GFT side, and we will correct it in the '26, have the right base on the U.K. side locally. So there's no spillover because you asked about spillover. I think the spillover should be rather on the other side that we spill over the GFT worldwide strategy into the U.K. So that we go back to what Marco explained, less transformational deals. They are more the cherry on the cake and a strong bread and butter business with existing strong Tier 1 and 2 banking clients. So the spillover should go exactly in the other direction and no spillover from the U.K. This is what we're working on today. And your third question was about the capacity adjustments I didn't fully get it. Let me try to answer it. So this year, we're seeing in the U.K. an operational and EBIT-adjusted results slightly negative EUR 1 million. Last year, it was plus EUR 10 million. So we have a major gap from this to last year. And going forward, after -- as Marco said, we will see margin improvement in '26. So we foresee normalized margin, not yet euphoric on the U.K. side, in the lower single digits, 4%, 5% EBIT adjusted margin on the revenue. That's what we did all these adjustments for. This year, the capacity adjustments burden us with EUR 5 million to EUR 6 million, which is not visible in the EBIT adjusted, but in the EBT, on the U.K. side. So I hope that was the question I was able to answer it. If not, please rephrase.

Yes. I would likewise. And I'd like to -- now, I'd like just to add a point to reinforce. You asked about if you see a spillover, right? So you have already answered, and I'd just like to add on top. No, absolutely not. For example, in United States, our operations GFT USA, it's completely the opposite of U.K. So it's a super lean organization, super lean. We have union managers on the ground, on site. We have a senior technical architects, senior consultants, SME, what should be -- what it should be. So we have a really lean on site team to manage the clients and manage the solutions and the technology, and then we leverage strongly on nearshore and offshore for United States. And that's simply the model that I want to replicate in U.K., right? So that's -- so we don't see spillover in terms of that effect in other entities of GFT U.K. On the opposite, as Jochen said, you want to push the global model that's being, let's say, I must say, very successful in other markets to U.K.

Okay. One follow-up. What -- how much one-offs do you expect for the entire group in '25. So what kind of EBIT should we expect, given what you guided as adjusted EBIT yesterday evening?

Jochen?

Yes. Not fully understand the question. What adjustments? Well, the adjustments we explained towards the EUR 10 million, right? That is now the gap of the last guidance to now. Now we are guiding for EUR 65 million, before it was EUR 75 million. And as explained on the detailed slide, U.K. Software Solutions, FX, there we show where it comes from. It is mostly coming from U.K., partially Software Solutions, partially FX. And it is then by EUR 5 million compensated by all the other GFT units. But of course, the EUR 5 million are not enough to compensate for the reduction on the EBIT adjusted versus last year or versus our initial guidance. It's the same story against both of them. Did I get that answer correct? Still struggling with the question?

Yes. Sorry, I'll try it once again. What does it imply for the entire year? The full year guidance for '25 for adjusted EBIT, what -- how much one-offs are baked into that guidance. So what kind of EBIT do you expect, reported EBIT?

So thinking what would be the turnaround looking into '26, right? And that is your thinking, if we would eliminate these effects, what could improve next year directly, correct?

First of all, for '25, just for '25 for the fiscal year '25, what do you expect as a one-off for the year?

So EBIT adjusted, we believe that roughly EUR 6 million in the U.K. are one-offs. EBIT adjusted, right? Restructurings only happened on EBT, which should also be one-off. Well, I said that sentence now 2 years, 3 years in a row, and we continue having restructure costs. Nevertheless, it should be one-offs when we have the right size of the teams. So roughly EUR 6 million in the U.K. on EBIT adjusted and EUR 5 million on EBT on top. In Software Solutions, I believe we have a EUR 1 million to EUR 2 million one-off on EBIT adjusted and the same number on EBT comes on top. And FX is everybody's guess, right, with the new FX rates that should disappear. That was easier than I initially thought the question was intended.

[Operator Instructions] Ladies and gentlemen, there are no more questions at this time. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Andreas Herzog for any closing remarks.

Thank you, operator, and thank, everybody, dialing in our call. Thank you very much for your questions. I hope we answered them. If you feel there is something that's still unanswered, please do not hesitate to contact our IR team, we are happy to help. And having said that, have a nice day, and goodbye. Thank you.

Bye-bye.

Thank you.

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