Indra Sistemas, S.A. (IDR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Interpreted] [Audio Gap] Good financial results and important advancements in the business, all fostered by a favorable market environment that's accelerating the growth pace of the company, starting with the financial aspects, I'd like to highlight. The performance in the first -- the performance of the first quarter is strictly well aligned with our annual objectives. So the main magnitudes include: first, our backlog increased by 11%, an increase in EUR 8 billion and also the projects awarded have increased by 17%. Income in the first quarter grew by 4%, pushed mainly by a growth of 18% in Defence. EBITDA and EBIT increased by 7% and 6% respectively, year-on-year. Net benefit in the first quarter dropped by 3% due to higher financial costs and taxes. Free cash flow increased by 14% year-on-year, EUR 77 million compared to EUR 68 million in the first quarter of 2024. And the position of our cash flow in March 2025 was EUR 129 million compared to a net debt of EUR 89 million in March 2024. Indra Group, once again restates its commitment with all the financial forecasts for 2025. And for the 2026 objectives that can be found in the strategic plan leading the future. Let's now talk about business highlights. And in this case, I'd like to highlight the execution of our strategy, Leading the Future, that's going ahead as expected. As you know, in the first quarter, we have had a change of our President. [ Oliver ] helps us to keep on working to be able to achieve our objectives. We have had important investments. And we are getting ready for the advanced growth that we expect to happen in the next few years amongst the most relevant milestones, I'd like to highlight the approval of a new organizational chart, we focus around product and programs to guarantee at the same time, standardization and industrialization, the deployment of a new industrial plan to transform Indra into a company that's product and manufacturing-oriented. At the same time, we will be able to accelerate its internationalization, the appointment of a new technology director, a new CTO, to reinforce our technology leadership. We have signed an MOU with Rheinmetall to modernize the Leopard 2 E tanks for the Spanish Army, also the creation of IndraMind, an artificial intelligence platform to automatize critical operations. And we will show the results. We have also reached important investments. So in the closure of the -- when closing the operations of Hispasat and Hisdesat, that's projected to take place in the fourth quarter 2025. As I mentioned, growth has been supported by important -- well, a very good environment due to the increase of defense budgets in Spain and other European countries. In this context, we expect that at least our figures in Defence 2025 will double compared to 2024. Of course, we will provide more detail of the financial impact of this increase of defense expenditure in the presentation of the results of the first half of the year once the programs launched by the government of Spain that could be led by Indra are further explained. If we go into Slide #6, the first quarter 2025 has been a great -- a good start of the year for Indra, aligned with the budget for the year that, as I mentioned in the previous slide, allows us to keep our financial objectives for 2025. Our backlog has increased by 11%. It has given us further stability and visibility for the future growth of our income and in this quarter, it's based on the growth of Minsait and ATM. Order intake has increased by 17% with a strong growth in all the different divisions, amongst which we can highlight Mobility, ATM and Defence that showed double-digit growth. Income has grown by 4% and all the different business areas have shown increases except Mobility that was flat. This growth has been impacted in the first quarter due to a lower punctual contribution of the business of Elections compared to the same period in 2024. Excluding this temporary effect that will be diluted throughout the exercise, total income would have had a growth of 7%. Beyond the growth of our income, we have also improved operational profitability. EBITDA margin has reached 10.7%, which has spent a growth in absolute terms of 7%. EBIT margin grew up to 8.2%, which brings about a growth of 6% that would have been 21%, excluding the business of Elections. This performance has been translated into a net result of EUR 59 million with a solid cash flow generation of EUR 77 million, which is 14% above cash flow generation in the first quarter 2024, closing the first 3 months of 2024 -- 2025, sorry, with net cash flow of EUR 129 million. As you can see, never go back. Each quarter, we just keep on going forward. If we take a look at the Slide #7, we can see the -- well, our sales in the first quarter, and we have achieved a growth of 5% in local currency and 3% in organic growth. The positive impact of acquisitions and organic growth have balanced out the negative effect of exchange rates. I would like to highlight as well that today, in the group, over 53% of the group's EBITDA comes from our aerospace and defence business, as we can see in the chart in the lower right side of the slide. In terms of the -- well, the next slide, the evolution of our workforce. In this slide, I'd like to mention that we have achieved a growth of 2% of our income by employee compared to 2024 and plus 1% compared to the end of last year with an increase of our workforce of 5% compared to December 2024. We keep on incorporating the best talent of the market to our business units aligned with our strategic priority of our plan in the future. We still measure productivity in our operations through different tools. But at the same time, we are getting ready for the programs that are about to come with new technologies for our talent to be able to provide these programs on time and with the right quality. If we focus around the results business by business, starting with Defence. As you can see in Slide #10, our defence business has a solid growth in terms of order intake. It has increased by 27% in this quarter, mainly due to the contract of radars in Germany, naval systems business and the inorganic contribution of [ dimers ]. On its side, revenue has also -- revenues has grown by 18% in this quarter, thanks to the contribution of Eurofighter Space and the Airborne platform business. Besides these double-digit growth, EBITDA margin reached 18% and EBIT margin 15% and so we are -- those are our referential values in the sector. In Slide 11, in ATM, the important performance shown by order intake that has grown by over 40% mainly due to the new contracts of the U.K. and Spain as well as the expansion in the region of AMEA, Serbian, Arab Emirates and Malaysia. I must highlight that in ATM, today, we have the most modern solution in its field globally. And it's due to the great growth, and that's what's causing the growth we are seeing every day. And sales have increased by 6% and we've had double-digit growth, both in the United States and Canada in iTEC as well as in Europe with Germany, Poland and Romania. And EBITDA margin is at 16%, while EBIT margin was above 13%. In terms of Mobility, Slide 12. If we take a look at its results, order intake has increased strongly, 73%, thanks to the urban transportation management systems in Ireland and the toll systems in Colombia, sales were stable with increases both in Europe and Spain that were balanced out by the drop that we have found in America and EMEA. Margins on this side have improved substantially, consolidating the levels of 7% in our EBITDA margin and 4% in EBIT margin, thanks to the lower impact of problematic projects we had in the past and the fact that we have focused more on the profitability of this division within our strategic plan. If we take a look at Slide #13, we see Minsait results. We are still expanding our portfolio. Our backlog order intake and revenues with a growth of 14%, 4% and 1 percentage, mainly due to energy, industry and financial sectors. These advancements place us clearly in a referential position within the IT sector. So we see that our competitors are dropping. That's not our case. We keep on growing. We keep on increasing. We're doing a great work. And, well, revenue have been impacted slightly due to a lower contribution of the Elections business in this quarter, excluding that impact, sales would have seen a growth of 5%. And if we were to eliminate the exchange rate effect, sales in local currency, excluding Elections would have had an even more solid growth of 7%, which is a reference within this sector right now, given everything that's happening on the European level. The profitability of Minsait is still increasing and EBITDA margin grew from 7.5% to 7.9% and EBIT margin from 5.5% to 5.6%. If we go to Slide #14 now and see the revenues of Minsait by different areas, we can see that we have optimized this month with Digital and Solutions with an increase of 7% compared to the first quarter 2024, which accounts for 53% of our sales. Within Digital, the sectors that are growing most are cybersecurity, migration to the cloud and artificial intelligence. If we take a look at the drill down of the order intake of Minsait, it has increased by 4% in the first quarter of the year, mainly due to a growth of 15% in energy and manufacturing. In terms of our revenues, we have seen an increase of 1% in the quarter, highlighting the good behavior shown by financial services increased -- that increased 6% and energy and manufacturing that increased by 5%. As you can see, the results are aligned. We are respecting the guidelines and our strategic plan. But before I give the floor to our Financial Director, I would like to review with you which are the strategic priorities we've got today. First, we keep on reinforcing our approach in defence and aerospace. Our actions in this sector will follow the road map, the structural road map that includes 5 priorities. First, to develop new products and improve the competitiveness of the products that are already in our portfolio. Second, accelerate the growth of new business lines that will give a response to emerging needs of our clients. Third, escalate our industrial capacity to be able to face the strong growth of demand by redefining our engineering and manufacturing footprint. Fourth, to reinforce our internationalization capacities to be able to compete more efficiently in global markets. And fifth, to increase industrialization, standardization and integration of supply chain with the objective to reduce manufacturing costs and shorten delivery lead times. And I must say about this that this quarter, we have optimized our supply chain by reducing the number of suppliers. And I must say that we are going to keep on working on the implementation of Indra Space, which includes the integration of Hispasat and Hisdesat, and we expect to capture synergies as well as generate additional business with IRIS2, continue the transformation in advanced technologies. And in this sense, first, we will keep on turning the business mix of Minsait towards more added value solutions as well as increasing operational efficiency. Second, we will consolidate the presence of Minsait in priority geographies. And third, we will present -- this will allow us to reinforce our home markets by reinforcing our presence and activity in preferential countries where our clients are and -- where clients with more potential are present. Fifth, we will continue with our portfolio rotation strategy through M&A operations -- selective M&A operation to close gaps and reinforce the ambition of Indra in the long term. Sixth, we are going to increase our investment in R&D with the deployment of critical technologies and fostering our innovation engine, which is Indra Ventures. I'd like to highlight that last week in the European Union within 19 R&D initiatives have nominated Indra as a leader in 14 of those, which shows our bet on technology. And last, we will keep on betting on critical talent by attracting and keeping the best professionals. And to do so, we are going to add over 2,500 people with a very high added value to get ready for the programs that are going to take place. These priorities reflect our focus for the year and restate our commitment with Leading the Future guidance. And having said that, I'd like to give the floor to our CFO, Miguel Forteza, to keep on detailing the data. Thank you.

[Interpreted] Thank you very much, Jose Vicente. Let's continue taking a look at the most important financial aspects of the first quarter. First, I'd like to highlight the solid evolution of free cash flow in the first quarter. It reached EUR 77 million and grew by 14% compared to the first quarter 2024. That was also an important quarter. It's an excellent figure if we compare it to the history of first quarter, taking into account the seasonability of this quarter in Indra. This shows the great performance of the operational execution of our businesses and the fact that we are focusing on the generation of cash flow. In Slide 19, in terms of the evolution of working capital, I'd like to highlight the positive evolution of days of sale that were at minus 9% compared to minus 3 to negative 3% in the same period of the previous year and that were at minus 7% at the end of 2024, which shows the continuous effort of the operational management on accounts payable and receivable with objective to optimize the cash flow. This figure is explained by 8 days less in accounts receivable and another 8 days in accounts payable, which compensates the plus 10 days of inventory due to the increased activity in the different businesses, especially businesses of aerospace and defence. And now let's explain the positive evolution of our net financial debt in the first quarter, in which we have closed with a position of EUR 129 million compared to EUR 86 million that we found at the end of 2024. Amongst the different components, I'd like to highlight, first of all, the operational contribution with EUR 98 million, but also the important change in working capital with a positive contribution of EUR 11 million, which brings about an improvement of EUR 26 million compared to the same period last year. As a result of it all, the leverage ratio is at minus 0.2x net debt to EBITDA, which is an improvement of [ 4x ] compared to March 2024, as we can see in Slide #21. And last, in terms of the structure of our debt, I'd like to highlight that we have been able to reduce the cost of our gross debt down to 3.4% compared to 4.2% that we had at the end of 2024. Having done that, the average maturity of our debt is at 3.3 years compared to 1.5 years reported in the same quarter last year. We have also finished the quarter with a cash position of EUR 781 million compared to EUR 616 million in 2024. And having said that, this is the end of our presentation. I would like to start the Q&A session.

[Operator Instructions] And our first question comes from the line of Nicolas David from ODDO.

I have two related to the Defence business. My first one is regarding the margin development in Defence, which was down year-on-year despite what looks like a positive mix given that you have lower contribution from FCAS and good contribution for your factor. So could you come back on why margin was down year-on-year in Q1? And what should we expect in the coming quarter? And my second question is regarding your comments about doubling order intake in defence in '25 versus '24. I know that you are going to describe a bit more the H1 results. But could you give us already a sense of the type of bookings you expect there, meaning do you expect booking generating revenue pretty quickly or bookings related to long-term program? And very last one on housekeeping. When do you think that Test Defence will be consolidated?

[Interpreted] Well, the first question is if you can explain the margins and then I'll explain the second one.

[Interpreted] Yes. In terms of margin -- operational margin, in absolute terms, it has grown by 2.7% at a lower pace than revenues due to a higher level of amortization of this quarter, [ EUR 13 million compared to EUR 27 million ]. So the margin drops to 9.2%, but EBIT margin improves up to 8.2% and due to lower operational expenses that took place in the previous quarter. Without the effect of amortization, the margin would have been better. In terms of the contribution of Eurofighter, an important growth of defence linked to, well, the prospects of increased fixed costs of the company and has a higher impact in the first quarter when revenues haven't yet reached the levels of the rest of the year. However, as years go by -- as months go by, sorry, the revenues will increase, and this effect will dilute progressively, which will bring about an improvement of margins in the following quarters. And talking about order intake, as you know, we have the [indiscernible] program and the Spanish government at the European level and the Spanish government has a EUR 10 billion program. About the EUR 10 billion program here in Spain. Well, we have internally carried out an exhaustive analysis of which are the programs that could be led by us. And what we are doing, we're working around 2 main axles. First, to develop our capacities by hiring and launching production lines to be ready when the moment comes because what can -- we believe we can grow in defence systems, radar, electronic warfare control systems that those are areas in which we are referenced. In test, we believe we can integrate some new programs as well. And in anti-drone and other weapons and ammunition issues programs, we believe we could be able to lead some of those programs as well. We believe that we are at least going to double these figures. We believe that, frankly, that's going to be more than that. But until there's further details about the programs, we don't really want to make any statement. But I can tell -- I can say that we have the ambition to receive a relevant part of those programs coming from the government of Spain and also part of the European programs. On the question about the consolidation of that, I must mention that we haven't just -- we haven't yet closed it, and we expect to do that in the very short term, and that's when the consolidation of that will start.

The next question comes from the line of Carlos Trevino from Banco Santander.

[Interpreted] Hello, good morning. I'm asking the question in Spanish. If we need that it make the question, English please tell me so. Two questions on my side. First, do you expect to have impacts on your business after the tariffs have been announced in the past few weeks. So what could the impact be? And also the increase of the budget in defence is quite relevant. And I understand that many of these projects could be projects that would take place for several years. So which is the impact of it, if you can -- what impact could it have in the business of the company even this year?

[Interpreted] So on the impact of tariffs, well, just for you to see this, our turnover in the United States last year was EUR 72 million with our orders were EUR 100 million. And are basically Mobility business, ATM and Minsait. Exchange rate is protected at 100%. And in terms of tariffs, within Mobility, 80%, that's software. It's developed in the United States, only 20% is developed elsewhere in terms of manufacturing. We're looking for an alternative to be able to manufacture those in the United States for tolls. In terms of traffic management, you know we bought a company in Kansas. And that's where we will develop the orders coming from the United States. The impact for us is low, is moderate, and we believe the impact of tariffs could mean EUR 3 million to EUR 4 million, not above that. In terms of the budget in defence, well, there are 31 programs. We have made an analysis of those 31 programs, and we know which are the programs in which we can be prime and which are the ones in which we cannot be prime. So if all the programs, which are in the manufacturing of helicopters and planes, so clearly, that's not us. Airbus has a very good position. When talking about building boats, clearly [ Novanta ] has leading position. But in terms of the rest, we believe that many -- for many of those Indra should actually lead if we truly want to be a tractor company of defence in our country, but it's not a matter of our wish. We have to prove it and be ready for it. And in that sense, we are working already on it because we believe we can be able to support this program. The impact this year is going to be in terms of order intake because having [ orders ] for EUR 10 billion at the end May. Of course, in sales that's going to -- the impact is going to be low. But that's going to have an impact on the budget for next year. So we need to get the company ready not for to reach an all-time high, but actually to achieve sustainable growth, and that growth is based on reinforcing engineering, reinforcing M&A that will provide us with better technology, have more vertical integration, developing products, be able to create or to sell or market those products globally. There's a lot of work that's going to help this growth. I mean, it won't have a huge impact in sales in 2025, but it will have a huge impact in the following years. And that's why beyond the EUR 6 billion that we have committed to in Leading the Future, we should start working to see when we're going to reach those -- that's when we'll reach this EUR 10 billion. Thank you.

The next question comes from the line of Michael Briest from UBS.

Two or three from me. Firstly, on the Elections business, can you talk about how the rest of the year will pan out and give us a baseline for 2024? And then on Minsait, you talked about priority geographies, consolidating your presence there. Are you talking about M&A potentially and in which markets that applies to? And then just finally, obviously, there was speculation in the press about an acquisition of Escribano Mechanical & Engineering. You said that there's no decision as of today. Can you talk about the process and the shareholding structure and your Chairman's ties to the company, how would that be managed internally from a sort of due diligence or compliance fashion given his shareholdings in both companies?

[Interpreted] Thank you for your questions. Luis Abril will start by explaining the Elections business and priority geographies and M&A and NIM inside. And then I will tackle the question that all of you are waiting for, which is how we're going to tackle the Escribano project.

[Interpreted] Yes. Thank you very much, Michael. I can start by answering the first 2 question. In terms of Elections, the precise data in the first quarter 2025. The Elections are EUR 9 million in sales in the first quarter 2024, Elections meant had sales of EUR 36 million. So those are the figures for the first quarter. In terms of our forecast for the end of the year, we expect the 2025 to be very close to 2025 in terms of Elections business, and it should be around EUR 55 million to EUR 60 million in sales. Those are sales in the Elections business, the margins are a bit above average. So I believe that the initial effect of the first quarter in total sales of Minsait or the effect has had -- the impact that it has had in the results shouldn't dilute throughout the year. In terms of the second question, you know that we, for some time, and that's part of Minsait strategy, we have focused around just the few geographies because we -- our thought is that in the IT business, scale is important, not just global scale but also local scale. And the geographies in which we are present, well, besides Spain, Italy and Portugal and Europe and a few more in the Americas, you know those are important for us. The main ones are Brazil, Mexico and Colombia and a few others.

[Interpreted] So the geographic criteria and keep on consolidating local scale is one of the criteria that we have taken into account to be -- well, to define our M&A strategy. Not only the geography, there's probably more important criteria that are linked to finding capacities that can complement the present portfolio of products and services and digital capacities we have today. So we are assessing this constantly. We have a constant pipeline of bolt-on acquisitions that should fill this capacity gap map. We take a look at geographies, but also data, cyber, AI and so on. And in terms of after what, Luis Abril just mentioned, our M&A axle within and the Leading the Future plan. I mean it's also there for the rest of the areas of the company, not just Minsait.What we do use to analyze which are the companies that can help us fill the gap in terms of technology or have a better integration of our supply chain or our value chain. And Minsait for example, 3 months ago, announced MQA, also in terms of avionics, we have just mentioned for, and we are looking at other companies because if we want to be a tractor company in Spain, a relevant company here in Spain, we must analyze the different companies that can add value to Indra. And Escribano is one of them. And so April 25, we informed the CNMV, the Spanish SEC. And besides the last week, I asked the Board of Indra to inform of the fact that we are assessing other options. Why? Because in this case, of course, there's a conflict of interest because the President of Indra is Ángel Escribano and member of the Board is also Mr. Escribano in the board. And I mean they've been out of the Board. And I explained the Board where we are. We are in a very initial phase. Indra has not hired KPMG as we have seen in the press. We are carrying our analysis, and I asked the Board and the Vice President of the Board to be able to have a fluid relationship and to be able to see this operation. So we are able to respect all the corporate governance rules because we know how sensitive this operation could be. So what can Escribano contribute with? Well, it can contribute with several aspects. First, in terms of [ UAVs ], I mean, we can do things like the ones we're doing. In terms of land vehicles, if we were to carry out this operation can help us have further vertical integration and add value at a point in which we need to develop our manufacturing capacity. Indra is a company with huge history of engineering. But if I'm allowed to say this, coming from my past experience in manufacturing, in the automotive sector, it is a company that needs to get developed at an industry level. We have to go from prototypes to see real manufacturing and that can be provided by Escribano. Having said that, we are in an initial phase just like other 20 companies I could mention in the Spanish and European scenario. And for the one being, we have no valuation. And as we go forward, and as soon as we have informed the Board as soon as there is a relevant information, we will involve the CNMV. And we'll keep on going forward with this product, which is just one amongst many others, but I am aware that in this case, I'm aware of the context in which these operations could take place. I hope this explanation was clear. And I hope and there are no more doubts about it. Thank you.

The next question comes from the line of Bruno Bessa from CaixaBank.

Yes. A few questions from my side. The first one on the evolution of the EBIT margin, particularly in the Defence business in Q1, the decline that we saw on an year-on-year basis. If you could just explain a bit more the reason behind this decline and your expectations about the evolution towards the end of the year. This will be the first question. The second question, more focused on your long-term outlook and strategic plan targets. You mentioned that you expect to reach the targets before 2030. Two questions on this front. The first one, if you believe that for reaching that target, you will have to undertake more M&A and -- or if you could be close to that, at least close to that target only with the growth that your organic activity could have over the coming years? And second, also about this, what will be your expected level of leverage, net debt to EBITDA, when you reach those targets in terms of sales that you are foreseeing in your capital markets in your strategic plan?

[Interpreted] I'll start with the first question about margin. Well, the growth we've seen in defence linked to our forecast provide an increase of fixed cost on the company. So we have to hire people. We have to get ready for these programs because I mean, that's something that cannot be done overnight. And of course, this has had an impact in the first quarter, an impact that is under control when revenues haven't yet reached the levels for the rest of the year. For example, today in -- well, we have a radar manufacturing backlog of 3 years. So quite clearly, that has to be go down to 1 year or 1.5 years. So we don't lose lead time opportunities because one of the programs or one of the objectives in defence program is time delivery. And that's why it is very important to be ahead of what's about to happen. And of course, that has an impact in fixed cost. But as the year goes by, revenues will increase and this effect will reduce. And this is going to bring about an improvement of margins in the next few months. I have no doubt about it. And we will finish the year with margins that will be similar to the margins including in our guidance. For example, today in -- well, we have a rate of manufacturing backlog of 3 years. So quite clearly, that has to be go down to 1 year or 1.5 years. So we don't lose lead time opportunities because one of the programs or one of the objectives in defense program is time delivery. And that's why it is very important to be ahead of what's about to happen. And of course, that has an impact in fixed cost. But as the year goes by, revenues will increase and this effect will reduce. And this is going to bring about an improvement of margins in the next few months. I have no doubt about it. And we will finish the year with margins that will be similar to the margins including in our guidance. So I'm not concerned about it. We are just anticipating for what could happen. And well, in terms of long term, the world has changed in the past 7 months. On March 6, we presented our Leading the Future plan. And I see the plan. I mean, I'm not going to say that it's obsolete, but it needs to be refurbished because well, different, we have a problem that's EUR 800 billion in the European Union, EUR 10 billion just this year in Spain. So the context is different. Geopolitical scenario is different. And Indra has to adapt to the new geopolitical context. And that's why, I mean, we have to build with proper foundations. In 2025, don't be concerned. I mean, we're going to cover the financial guidance and expect to have even better results as we have done since I got here. And in the Leading the Future plan, I mean, the EBITDA and cash flow figures, I mean, we're going to get there. But we are already working beyond that. Those EUR 10 billion seem utopia when -- but we see that it's not utopia anymore. But that ambition has -- we have to work for that ambition. And well, we want to have a new Capital Market Day to provide a long-term view. That's when we will be able to answer these questions you're asking, which debt, which leverage ratio. I cannot give you that information today because we are still focusing around the short and midterm with the programs that are arriving. And we are seeing how to reach those EUR 10 billion. If at a certain point in time, we need to go beyond a ratio of 1x, we will do so because the context in this year or next year, it's not the same context we had some years ago. What's actually important today is that Indra is -- has optimal financial debt position. No doubt, we are generating cash. Our intake is over EUR 8 billion. Our order intake is over EUR 8 billion. We're growing not just in Defence, we're growing in ATM, in Air Traffic Management at double digit. We have the most advanced solution within Mobility. We have carried out restructuring. And Minsait, the work it is doing is just outstanding. So when our competitors are having issues to meet their budgets, we keep on growing. And we are working more and more to support this idea of paying both [ mediterranean ] and civilian in all divisions. So long-term view, of course, we have got EUR 10 billion. Sure. When? Let's wait until things are a bit clearer and let's give an opportunity for the President to share that view when the time is right. But we think we're working on this internal discipline, never go back, just keep on going forward every quarter, we keep on going forward. We're getting ready and preparing the company to have a great company in the future that was half asleep. It's awakening now. And we see this every day with new results and more growth. And in the defence sector, we want to be the tractor company at a national level, and we want to be a European reference with other companies in the sector.

The next question comes from the line of David Lopez from JB Capital.

So my question is regarding the current status of the Minsait payments divestment process. Is the transaction is still ongoing? Should we expect it to close in the near term?

[Interpreted] The price is still open. If we find interesting on external operation, we will carry it out. Otherwise, we won't. I believe the situation of the company is not forcing us to sell payment methods, and we believe it adds value. But I mean, it's part of our noncore business. And just like Minsait, we have decided not to sell it. And we are working to try to keep on adding value to it, changing our mix. And in that sense, as soon as there is more information on investment or divestment, we will inform you in terms of payment methods, well, let's -- we will wait, and we are still in the process. Well, there are no more questions. I'd like to close this session. But first of all, I'd like to thank you for your support, your comments and your trust in Indra Group as we see every day, and we see the stock price. But please don't hesitate on the fact that we know what we're doing. We are going to meet our guidance, but we are getting Indra Group ready to become a reference company in Spain, in Europe, and we will keep on growing. And besides the first part of Leading the Future, we are already working towards this ambition to get to EUR 10 billion at some point to be a profitable company and a reference company in Europe. [Portions of this transcript that are marked [Interpreted] were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]