Moncler S.p.A. (MONC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good evening. This is the Chorus Call conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Moncler Group Full Year 2024 Financial Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions]. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Ms. Elena Mariani, Group Strategic Planning and Investor Relations Director. Please go ahead, madam.

Good evening, everybody, and thank you for joining our call today on Moncler's Full year 2024 financial results. Let me introduce you to the speakers of today's call, Mr. Remo Ruffini, Moncler Group's Chairman and CEO; Luciano Santel, Chief Corporate and Supply Officer; Roberto Eggs, Chief Business Strategy and Global Market Officer; Gino Fisanotti, Moncler Chief Brand Officer; and Robert Triefus, Stone Island CEO. Before starting, I need to remind you that this presentation may contain certain statements that are neither reported financial results nor other historical information. Any forward-looking statements are based on group current expectations and projections about future events. By their nature, forward-looking statements are subject to risks, uncertainties and other factors that could cause results to differ even materially from those expressed in or implied by these statements, many of which are beyond the ability of the group to control or estimate. I also remind you that the press has been invited to participate to this conference in a listen-only mode. Finally, I kindly ask you during the Q&A session to stick to a maximum of two questions per person to give all participants the opportunity to ask questions. Let me now hand it over to our Chairman and CEO, Mr. Remo Ruffini. Mr. Ruffini, over to you.

Good evening, everyone. I'm proud to say that in 2024, our group achieved remarkable results despite a complex and volatile environment. Group revenues were above EUR 3.1 billion, with both Moncler and Stone Island delivering double-digit growth in the DTC channel. We maintained a resilient EBIT margin at 29.5%. We reached EUR 1.3 billion of cash on our balance sheet. Our sustainability effort continues and have been recognizing in key rankings. This result prove the solidity of our business model and our operational discipline. But as usual, results are more than just the numbers. This is about our search for uniqueness, it's about pushing creativity boundaries, never settling for the ordinary. Over the past year, we have focused even more on what makes our brand truly distinctive. The event of Moncler Grenoble in St. Moritz and Moncler Genius in Shanghai were key moments, which reshaped the concept of brand experience. Stone Island also continued to reinforce a strong identity with powerful brands initiative, building even strong connections with new and loyal communities. As we move into 2025, we see a global macro environment still uncertain. Yet, we are confident in our ability to navigate the future, inspired by what we believe since day one, never compromised, never get bored, so we don't bore others, always dream to make other dreams. Thank you. I leave the floor to Gino.

Okay. Good afternoon and good morning to everyone. I think before we start, I will say two words and then I think we will see a kind of a recap of the year. But before I present that, I would say, 2024 have been a really special year for the brand. We are really proud of how we came across to the market and the connections we were able to create with customers out there. But before I keep talking about what we have done in Q4, let's take a look of this recap of the entire year together. [Presentation]

[indiscernible] follow a recap video. But again, we will just highlight a few things for us. And of course, then we will go into questions later. But again, I mentioned before this was a very special year for the brand, I think Mr. Ruffini mentioned just the end of the video I think was a proving point for us that creativity is the energy we used to be extremely distinctive in the luxury world. And I think as you can see, entering The City of Genius in Shanghai was a perfect example of that. I think as we probably mentioned before, these have been the most impactful brand event, we're able to accomplish as a team yet. And again, for us, it was incredible to see that we're able to drive an amazing level of brand awareness, but not only in China, but around the globe, which was really, really important to see. Again, then I will not go through the details right now, but I think as we discussed probably before, and we saw on the video, I think these have been incredible in terms of the total reach in terms of the engagement we saw around the world and even to be able to leverage social media platforms in China, specifically to have over 67.5 million viewers live stream into the event, which is something I presented, of course, for us for any other luxury show done before in China. If we move to the next slide, I think quickly here, I think as we present this in Shanghai, we were able to launch four different collections that we were presenting in October '19 in The City of Genius. Again, I will say just to summarize here, I think we were seeing very positive reception about all these collections across all regions, which is very important and very good for us to see. And more importantly, I think, bring always a lot of energy into the retail landscape at a very important time of the year for the brand as well. If we move then to the next slide, and I think you saw something briefly there in terms of Moncler Grenoble campaign. For winter '24 have been our biggest effort brand effort against Grenoble, yet in terms of the results we've seen on this campaign. Of course, the campaign came as a follow-up of the presentation with you at the beginning of the year in St. Moritz when we present for Winter '25. And I think I can say this because it's no secret. We're about to host for Winter '25 new show in Courchevel in just a few weeks in the middle of March. So again, very happy with the work done around Grenoble. And I will say even happy how we were able to create incredible extensions with key partners like [indiscernible] Neiman Marcus, [indiscernible] in Milano, who were part of this Grenoble campaign. Then last but not least, I think probably more for the Italians in the call, we have the incredible honor and pleasure to work with someone like Paolo Sorrentino to create this incredible welcome to winter at the 21st of December that we're able to leverage these across our digital platforms. And as I mentioned before, it was an incredible honor for us as a brand to have the luxury to work with someone like Paolo to receive the most important season of the year. Then last, but not least from my end, I think, of course, regarding Moncler collection, I think here, I want to just make a specific comment regarding RE/ICONS, but beyond that. I think we are showcasing a very specific efforts in terms of how we are using Moncler collection to elevate the brand as a whole, starting, of course, from product. And in this case, RE/ICONS represents a really good opportunity for us to celebrate our most iconic products. We distort them. We redesign them, we recreate them both for the current, I would say, loyal customers of Moncler, but more importantly, even to bring new and more lovers of the Moncler brand. So again, Moncler collection remains another very important pillar for us, of course, not only for the business, but of course, in terms of brand elevation and product presentation. With that, I will let Robert start telling us a bit about Stone Island.

Thank you, Gino, and good day to everyone. Before making my main comments, I will also take the opportunity to show a short video of the highlights of 2024. [Presentation]

So before focusing on the key for highlights I just like to remind everyone of this strategic journey that we are on that outlines a year ago. Since the acquisition of the transformation of Stone Island, has been focused on three strategic pillars. First of all, refining the architecture of the product offering; second of all, elevating our distribution footprint with an omnichannel customer-centric approach; and thirdly, and most evidently in 2024, establishing a distinctive brand positioning and greater visibility, therefore, for the brand. If we think about product, we have focused specifically on restructuring the collection by strengthening and expanding our core iconic categories that are central to the brand's DNA, such as outerwear and knitwear, while also limiting collaborations to concentrate on dedicated strategies that support the momentum of our three sub collections, Ghost, Stellina and Marina. And each one of those is designed to drive consideration among new customer segments. From a distribution standpoint, we've been taking control, as everyone knows of our distribution by phasing out all third-party distributors and internalizing operations in all key markets, all the while dedicating our attention on our own DTC channel. And of course, part of that has meant rolling out our retail excellence program. At the same time, we streamlined the wholesale channel by adopting a more selective distribution approach while we have obviously been elevating the customer experience at wholesale. And last, but not least, a pivotal step in this journey has been the internalization of e-commerce which we completed in August 2024. So as I said, this past year has been a year of great focus on brand positioning and brand visibility. At the start of 2024, we embarked upon a new chapter for the brand with the launch of our first community as a form of research advertising campaign, which is aimed at increasing the global brand visibility by engaging our community. Of course, we've seen a very visible participation from the likes of Liam Gallagher, Jason Statham, Peggy Gou. And of course, we have embarked upon other important brand initiatives, partnering with Frieze in four cities around the world, launching a documentary that tells the story of our research and innovation hub at Ravarino and Emilia-Romagna, we've published a second edition of our Storia book with Rizzoli and last, but not least, have extended our relationship with the music world partnering with Apple Music on Stone Island Sand. The overarching goal is to expand our audience by reaching new consumer segments. While, of course, maintaining the strong bond with the communities, the brand has cultivated over time, loyal enthusiasts who worn the Stone Island badge with pride for years. So in closing, the overarching philosophy is not to take shortcuts. We want to grow in a sustainable and healthy way, always doing what is right for the brand. And I'm confident that we have laid the right foundation to unlock the long-term potential of Stone Island.

Well, thank you, Robert. Let me come now to the results of the both brands after having seen all the initiatives that have been driving the performance of Moncler and Stone Island during the year and especially in Q4. For the full year result of Moncler, we reached EUR 2.7 million or EUR [ 7 million ] which is a plus 8% compared to 2023. Q4 were up 8% year-on-year, accelerating compared to Q3. Asia, which includes, for us, Asia Pacific Japan and Korea grew by 11% in Q4, improving sequentially. This was supported by a return of solid double-digit growth in our Chinese Mainland territory. Despite a high comparable base and macroeconomic conditions, Japan and Korea and the rest of Asia Pacific also delivered a solid performance. EMEA was up 3%, improving compared to Q3. Acceleration of the D2C channel have been driven both by the contribution of tourists and locals. The Americas was up 5% year-on-year with the performance of the D2C channel driving the improvement compared with the previous quarter, both in the physical and in the online channel. If we look at the results by channel, Moncler D2C revenues rose to EUR 2.332 billion in full year 2024, which is up plus 11% versus 2023. The comp sales have been up 3% for the full year. In Q4, D2C revenue increased by 9% year-on-year driven by sequential improvement across all regions despite a progressively tougher comparable base. The physical channel continued to outperform the online channel. Wholesale revenues reached EUR 375 million in full year 2024, down 7% versus 2023. Q4 revenues declined by the same level at 7%, impacted by few challenging market trends and also by the upgrade of our distribution. If we look at the result of Stone Island, total revenues reached EUR 401 million, which is a minus 1% compared to 2023. Q4 revenues were up 10% year-on-year. In Q4, Asia grew 23% mainly driven by the ongoing strong performance of Japan and improving trends in Chinese markets. Korea continued to show softer trends even if improving towards the end of the year. EMEA revenues were up 4%, thanks to the solid performance of the DTC channel and improving trends in the wholesale. Italy was the best performing market of EMEA. The Americas revenues were up 2% in Q4. If we look at the results per channel regarding Stone Island, we see that Stone Island DTC revenues grew up 23% during the year for a total of 209 million. In Q4, revenues of these channels were up 15% with Asia and EMEA outperforming. The physical channel continued to outperform the online channel across all regions. Wholesale revenues reached 192.7 million for the full year, which is a minus 19%. In Q4, wholesale revenues decreased by 1%, showing substantial improvement. We are continuing to work, as Robert was saying in the improvement of the quality of the network. Talking about the network, the total amount of stores that we reached at the end of the year was 286 for Moncler and 90 for Stone Island, with -- in the wholesale channel, 56 shop-in-the-shop for Moncler and 9 for Stone Island. The most remarkable improvement opening that we have had during the quarter were Shenyang, New Bond Street in the U.K. and Boca Ratan. We can see the figures. We can see here some -- sorry, some of the picture of the store we opened in Bond Street, which is an additional store, and we kept until the end of 2025. We'll keep also the store that we've on Bond Street and the good results that these were pure additional sales that we have had at the end of the year. The other opening was Boca Raton that we opened also in December. This year 2024, most of the openings took place in Q3. So we have been able to leverage this opening in Q4. Pass the word to Santel.

Okay. Thank you, Roberto. Good afternoon, everybody, and thank you for attending our call today. We are now at Page 24, where we report the profit and loss for the year for the 2024 year, which indicates a quite good profitability at all the different levels. gross profit, as you see higher than last year, but due, of course, to the channel mix. Selling expense is greater growth as compared with last year, but not more than the growth of gross profit, which, as you know, indicates a good solidity of the productivity of our DTC business. G&A is slightly higher that incorporated investments that we keep doing in our organization and marketing is slightly higher than last year. Operating profit, EUR 960 million with an EBITDA margin of 29.5%, slightly behind the 30% of last year. But honestly, better than what we expected only a couple of months before the end of the year. Something important to highlight the net result and net profit better than last year, also on margin-wise, 20.6% against the 20.5% we reported last year due to a good management of our cash cost due also to the higher interest rates. Okay. Let's move now to Page 25, where we report CapEx. CapEx is still in the region of 6% of our revenues, which is one of our let me say, golden rule, more and more equally distributed between our retail network and what we call infrastructure. Infrastructure, of course, as you know, includes investments in production, in logistics and information technology. So nothing special and nothing different from what I'm sure you also expected. Next page 26, net working capital, still quite healthy, honestly, very good inventory management, a very good credit control and the overall net working capital slightly above 8%. Net financial position, we touched at the end of the year, EUR 1.3 billion cash with net cash generation of about almost EUR 300 million and after a distribution of dividends of EUR 311 million last year. Important to highlight that today, the Board decided to propose to the shareholder meeting a distribution of dividend for the year 2024 of EUR 1.30 per share. Last year was EUR 1.15 with an increase of 13% at an expected cash out of about EUR 350 million. Next page, balance sheet, honestly, nothing to comment on this slide and the cash flow statement. Honestly, very interesting, very important, but let me say, very self-explanatory. Of course, ready to answer your questions, if you have any. And then 2 slides on our sustainability, a commitment effort and let me say, great achievements, thanks to the great job of our sustainability team. Okay. I'm done with the presentation. Thank you all and ready now to answer your questions.

Thank you. We will pause for a few seconds to gather questions from the audience. As a reminder, I kindly ask you to stick to two questions per person to give all participants the opportunity to ask questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] First question is from Erwan Rambourg, HSBC.

I wanted to mention what Mr. Ruffini said about never getting bored, so well done on a very solid impressive year. I will try to stick to two questions, even though it's a bit difficult. I'm wondering, given the vitality and the resonance of the brand, if you think differently about the long-term algorithm of growth. Can we still hope for mid- to high single-digit pace expansion year after year? And how do you think about pricing in the equation for the long term? And then secondly, LVMH took a small stake a while ago, their probably happy having done that in September. Is there any change in the relationship there? Is there any way to leverage the fact that you're cousins, if I could put it that way, is there any way to leverage the group in terms of possibly getting better locations in malls or sharing resources, whether human resources or other, any comment on what you can do for each other with that long-term view. Thank you very much.

Thank you for your question. About your first question, I mean the shape of our growth in the future, let me say that talking about space, as you know, in the past, we said, but also for 2024, that space should represent mid- to high single digit. I can tell you that for this year will be more mid than mid-to-high. And I think that in the future will be the same, of course, also because our store base has been growing. And so I mean the growth rate we expect is more closer -- is closer to mid than mid high. About -- and of course, I mean needless to say, I'm sure you know that the space contribution will come from still a selective number of new openings, but also more and more from the expansion and relocation of the existing stores to make them more visible, bigger and more adequate for our business product. About the pricing -- pricing for this year for 2025, we still expect a price increase mid-single-digit totally due to inflation in our production cycle. And for the future, I can tell you that we -- I don't think we never plan to increase prices if not driven by inflation. Of course, there might be a mix effect because the opportunities for Moncler to keep, I mean, growing the architecture of the collection, introducing more and more high-end product. Of course, on the other side, we see -- and we are happy to see the need to category that keeps growing and faster than, however, which of course, report a lower price than other. But I mean, overall, the mix effect is expected to grow, but of course, not significantly.

So answer to your second question. As I said, the transaction -- this was a transaction at the holding level and the partnership reinforced for sure, double our positioning in Moncler give stability. It's very important to flag that Moncler Group remains fully independent. And about synergy, I don't think we expect synergy, because they're not involved in any strategy that from the next board, we are going to have one board member from LVMH. Let's say, we don't on it expect some big synergy or synergy.

Next question is from Susy Tibaldi, UBS.

My first one would be on the growth by the different nationality clusters. Your growth by region was strong across the board, but the standout was APAC. With the Chinese, can you comment -- you said Mainland China double digit. If you can be more specific on the Chinese and also some of the other nationalities? And do you think the strength with the Chinese was at all perhaps influenced by the early timing of Chinese New Year? Maybe there was some earlier shopping versus last year? And secondly, I know you don't comment on current trends, but I was more wondering. There is this argument generally speaking, within the consumer spending that it's concentrating a bit more around key events, for example, Christmas or New Year. And I was wondering if it's something that you're observing to because you had a weaker Q3 and then you more than caught up in Q4. So maybe now to the holidays, is there any trends at all that you can flag to us any observed change in consumer behavior?

Well, thank you for the question. So it's Roberto speaking. I would like to answer the first part of your question, which is the growth by nationalities and give a little bit more color on the performance with the Chinese. Well, indeed, the performance of the Chinese has been good over the Q4 quarter. It has been good not only in December, but throughout the Q4 quarter. So I don't think we can attribute this performance only to the Chinese New Year, where we have seen the impact much more in January. It has been a double-digit growth that we have seen with Chinese, not only in China, but also offshore especially in China, a little bit in Korea and also in Europe. The Koreans were flattish, but improving sequentially versus Q3. Japanese has been a little bit weaker. But overall, the performance of Japan has been good, driven by the Southeast clients and especially by the Chinese. We have maintained a gap that is roughly 5% between China and Japan, not more than that. Europeans have been positive single digits in most of the countries in Europe and the performance of EMEA has been also slightly helped by the performance of the Americas and the performance of the Chinese. And overall, the Americans were high single-digit positive, part of the growth was coming from the U.S. market and the part of the growth was coming from good performance that we have seen with Americans in Europe, especially in Paris and in Milano.

One thing -- I think one thing just to react in terms of consumer behavior or macro trends. I think there's two things, probably. One is the overall trends that we're seeing in the sector, right? I think -- and everyone is pretty aware of that. I think for us, when we start talking about Q4, what we are seeing is a really strong reaction, I would say, to every brand effort we have been putting in the market, right? And I think this could go across in this case, for a strong Q4 across the three dimensions of the brand. I will say definitely and is connected to Roberto was saying, our investment in China really pay off. This was a very big effort that, of course, took a long time to come in to you, but this definitely pay off for us. I think the efforts around Grenoble that started at the beginning of the year with the presentation of the collection of all the way through to the launch at the beginning of December. We're seeing this all the way through, I will say, into the beginning of this year as well with good reaction across the board. And I would say, of course, Moncler collection is two different aspects there. Some is the brand efforts we have been doing, the other one is, of course, the seasonality of our product and the strength we have as a brand as we go into Q4. So I think in terms of what we are seeing for -- specifically for Moncler in terms of consumer behaviors, customers are still reacting very positively to the efforts we are doing as a brand. Of course, this is end-to-end, I would say, from product all the way down to the retail experience provided and everything in between. And I will say the 2-dimension of the brand for us in Q4 have been receiving a strong reaction across the entire market.

The next question is from Louise Singlehurst with Goldman Sachs.

Two for me then, please. Just following up from Susy's question just in terms of the consumer behavior in Q4. Obviously, we've come a long way from the implied negative like-for-like in Q3 with a very nice acceleration into Q4. We know we're up against the tough comparable for Q1. What can you tell us? I realize there's the timing impact of the Chinese New Year. So January alone isn't a good start for us to consider. But what color can you give us for the year-to-date, given how important this quarter is, please? And then just on the space expansion point. Are you thinking any differently about the geographical allocation of stores? I know last year, we did hear a lot about the potential for the U.S. expansion. We know you've got some exciting developments opening up in the U.S. over the next year or two. Is there any change in thought process about where you're opening space?

Well, thank you for the question, Louise. I will answer to both of them. First of all, what we have seen throughout the 2024 was I would say an abnormal very, very strong growth that we had in Q1 that was helped by a series of factors, which were linked to a very cold weather in China. The fact that we had a season that started late for -- winter season started late in 2023. So we are also, let's say, enough stock to fulfill fully the demand. We were also very, very well prepared last year because we had a base of comparison in Q1 2023, that was so high that we put a lot of, let's say, marketing activities more on the CRM level and we had the [indiscernible] that helped the performance of Q1. So I would say is this performance of Q1 that was a little bit abnormal and that has influenced also the way you see the performance throughout the year. Q3 clearly has been impacted by the economical environment. But what we have seen is a return of clients in the season, that is the go-to-market season for Moncler. We are really top of mind. So if there is a consumer behavior that we can maybe -- that we start to sense is that in this more difficult moment, consumers tend to go to the brands at their peak moments. And clearly, we are top of mind during those months, and these have helped the performance of Q4. Regarding the performance of the start of the year, we are fairly happy about the performance. We have seen a trend on the Chinese that is a little bit on the same trend that we have seen at the end of the year. But I would not like that you take this as a proxy for the Q1 results. Because this year, the full impact of the Chinese New Year has been seen in January. February will be probably more difficult because we will have a base of comparison when we had some effect of the Chinese New Year of last year. So we'll have a better reading on the full results by the end of February. Regarding the space expansion, I will talk more in terms of projects that we have in the pipeline and the way we have been approaching the market in these past years. The results that you see is always the final results of a lot of elements that have been putting in place. So clearly, for us, with the 17th anniversary of Moncler with the flagship openings that we have had, with all the events we have had in 2023. This was the year of the performance of EMEA. And we had a lot of projects also that we're opening during that time. 2024, we had a lot of project relocation expansion on the Chinese market. We were able to get ground floor location and much better visibility in Shanghai, in Beijing, China Duty Free -- sorry, a [indiscernible] China world. So plus at the end also the event that we have had with the Genius show in Shanghai that have helped clearly also to give more visibility to the brand towards the end of the year. In the way we foresee our investment in 2025, 2026. And this is a multiyear investment that we are going to do, not only in terms of retail expansion, but also in terms of visibility that we want to give to the brand, we are going to focus on the Americas and mainly in the U.S. with, let's say, a city approach. We don't want to cover the full U.S., but there will have some key cities that -- where we would like to increase the visibility of the brand. So clearly, in terms of retail footprint expansion, Americas, mainly U.S., but also Vancouver, where we have some nice projects and also Mexico and Sao Paolo will be top on the radar screen of Moncler.

Next question is from Edouard Aubin, Morgan Stanley.

So first question is, I guess, for Gino. So year after year, you've -- Moncler has continued to impress in terms of the brand building efforts. Could you please just comment in terms of the past 3 to 6 months in terms of the communication, what you've changed and come back, if you wouldn't mind on Genius. I know it's just one event, but it looks like you had a great activation campaign. So if you can share a little bit of your secret sauce because really you deliver that. So that's question number one. And question number two is for Robert, I guess, on Stone Island. So you talked about all of the efforts you've made in the past few quarters about repositioning the brand in terms of distribution and communication and product. Is '25 going to be another year of repositioning? Or are we going to start to see a pickup in terms of the growth? Or should we have to wait for '26, '27? Thank you so much.

Again, I don't know if I'm able to give you the secret sauce, but I will try this to explain a bit of what happened there. I think, again, I think the first thing that we normally discuss the thing is, this is not a one event only. Neither this is something that we don't plan with a lot of time in advance. I think for us to make the effort we made in Shanghai was almost a massive team effort for over 18 months. to put this to the other. And of course, what you see there is an effort that starts normally in terms of communication and engagement with customers 3 to 4 weeks before. And last 3 to 4 weeks after, right? And this is what allows us for us to create a very strong brand awareness and we will discuss about the reach about how we can go and connect with more customers and then, of course, try to double down on the engagement we get there. Few things, I think, may be more related to this execution. I think one of our -- let's say, challenges or concerns. Of course, you always have many when you try to do this. But one of the concerns we were challenging each other, if you like, was normally, it's not easy to do something from China for China, but can transcend into the world, right? And I think this is something that for us was something that we took to the extreme into the detail to make sure that this effort was something that can go way beyond and this is something that we will always say we're proud, of course, of all the work that the team was able to do. But I think one of the areas where we're extremely proud is not only to see the impact that this definitely had in China for all the conversations we have so far. But how this story was able to travel from all the different markets around the globe. And this was something that I will say came from even content created in with local talent with local producers, with local filmmakers, with local talent in mother language. By at the same time, that will supply through a filter over a global takedown, which was super important. I will always remind just as an idea that as anniversary coming from London to Shanghai, the night we did the event in Shanghai. At the same time, we were taking over Harrods in London to showcase live and turn that facade into a catalog where people were able to see the different looks from the show. So I'm giving you just nuances to understand that this was a very comprehensive, I would say, end-to-end effort across the entire organization. This wasn't just a marketing or just retail or just digital or just product was all those things across multiple designers. Last comment there, probably more related to China itself. I think the level of detailed obsession around the [indiscernible] and WeChat for us was very important. I think as I mentioned at the beginning, having a live stream session of 67.5 million people is not something that we take for granted, neither that we are looking forward to repeat every year because it's not easy. But I think the understanding of how we can create specific content that resonates with these platforms, and we know that the penetration of this platform and the usage of these platforms in China are very deep in a specific segment. So this was something that took us a lot of time with the local team to understand, but it was a lot of different level of obsession that allow us to create this level of detail. So I'm giving you these 5 seconds. Of course, we can share more, but those were the things, I will say, a very extreme level of detail in every aspect of the plan from the event to before and to especially after.

In regards to Stone Island, as I said at the end of my remarks, I do believe that the foundations in terms of those three strategic pillars are largely in place. We have a collection now that is very representative of the DNA of the brand. As I highlighted, we have doubled down on core categories that are perceived to be the DNA of the brand. And we're seeing good traction, particularly in those core categories. In terms of the distribution, as I have mentioned, the selective framework that we introduced last year has already allowed us to develop more strategic partnerships with our key wholesale partners. That is helping us to deliver a strong performance in their locations. Those partnerships were evidenced in my slides. For example, Holt Renfrew in Canada. We brought an archive exhibition to their location in Montreal. Those kind of initiatives now are unlocked because we have these very, I would say, fruitful discussions about how the brand can be best represented. In terms of the marketing and the brand positioning, Rome wasn't built in a day, and it takes time to ensure that a brand positioning is visible and well understood. I think that given that we launched this more intentional approach to our marketing last January, we now have a year under our belt and the, let's say, metrics that we look at in terms of brand reach, brand engagement are all pointing in the right direction. We also have a brand perception, a research that takes place every 6 months that is also helping us to track how successful we're being in reaching the new customer segments, what we consider to be our personas and we're being effective in that. So overall, I would look at 2025 as a year where we would expect the momentum that we're now beginning to see in the DTC channel continuing. And albeit the wholesale will continue to remain negative I would hope that the foundations that I've just described with our partners will also begin to see a fruit in that channel. Last and not least, the integration of .com, which took place in August, which is a very important undertaking both from a back-end and a front-end standpoint. We are now able to provide omnichannel services that we weren't able to in the past. And from a brand storytelling perspective, obviously, operating your own front-end is allowing us to do, I think, a much better job of underlining the core DNA of Stone Island, both from a product and a community standpoint.

Next question is from Melania Grippo of BNP Paribas.

Good evening, everyone. This is Melania Grippo from BNP Paribas. I have two questions. The first one is on the wholesale performance for the Moncler brand. What are you expecting for 2025. And the second one is on the use of your cash. You have a cash pile of over EUR 1 billion. Can you tell us what are your plan to do with this cash. So if you are considering any acquisition or any M&A. Thank you.

Thank you for the question, Melania. On the wholesale part regarding Moncler, but I think the remark I will be doing is also valid for Stone Island. We -- first for Moncler, we are planning on results that are going to be in line with the result of 2024. So mid- high single-digit negative because we'll continue to enhance and increase, let's say, the quality of our network. This is the main focus that we have. So there will be some further decrease in terms of [ doors ] that we have. We will continue also to move our airport business more into a D2C to get a better control on our distribution with D2C. And there are a couple of also conversions that are planned in the Middle East to get because it's a region that still relatively small for us, but that is growing where we want to get the direct-to-consumer approach. So we are going to move a couple of stores in the Middle East into a D2C business. Regarding Stone Island, also we'll continue to upgrade the distribution that we have there. We foresee first half of the year a little bit more negative than the second half of the year. Overall, the decrease that we have seen in the wholesale business for Stone Island is going to improve. It will remain negative, but not as negative as we have seen in 2024, which was very much linked to the upgrade of the -- and the elevation of the distribution, but also the fact that we have been converting a business that was mainly a wholesale business 3 years ago. It was at more than 85% of the wholesale business. And now for the first year, we are more D2C than wholesale. So it's really part of the strategy we want to put in place to be closer to the consumer and to be more control of the brand.

Melania, thank you for your question. I'm not sure you will be happy with my answer. But I mean, cash, of course, right now may be a problem. Honestly, it's a nice problem. And what is nice for us, but I think also for the market is not the cash itself, but the capability of this company, of this business to keep generating cash as we did again last year. As you know, we don't have an M&A strategy, and we never make any acquisition only because we are in a hurry due to the expansion of our cash. Right now, we are and we want to remain very, very focused on the two great brands because, as you know, we see huge opportunities for Moncler and the huge opportunities for Stone Island. But in order to fully develop and take advantage of these opportunities, we need to work hard and to remain all of us very, very focused on the two brands and what may make them more successful. Something more financial, I hope the market will appreciate that considering the good results of profit, but of cash too, we are significantly increasing our payout in the dividend for the dividends we will be distributing in the upcoming May. This is the answer, Melania.

Next question is from Luca Solca from Bernstein.

Luca Solca from Bernstein. I would like to focus my two questions on the strategic growth revenues that you have in front. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but when it comes to the opportunity to allocate capital, I see two major revenues. One, which seems to be immediately available is the continuing stretching up of the Moncler brand. I see the experiment you carried out in London and what Robert was referring to doubling revenues and the look and feel, the high-level look and feel of your new flagship, the higher price products within [indiscernible]. Very encouraging, and there seems to be an opportunity that you could potentially exploit elsewhere. I think you also have two stores, one with a higher end dedication in St. Moritz in Switzerland. I wonder if this indeed is an opportunity that is immediately available and that you could dedicate capital to and that could potentially allow you to drive growth in the top line for at least another 3 or 5 years, well above average. The second question is about Stone Island. What you're saying about also maybe I'm reading a little bit in between the lines here. But it seems that this growth opportunity has yet to mature. You've done a lot of homework. You have developed quite a compelling product. But the brand heat, the in-store traffic and the retail productivity doesn't necessarily seem to be there. So -- are we right to anticipate that as far as new capital allocation is concerned, you're probably going to pause and wait and see for this brand momentum to ignite. And at that point, you could potentially push the development forward.

Thank you, Luca, for the question. In terms of capital allocation, clearly, as you know, the retail expansion is one element. We always privileged the quality over the quantity of projects. So yes, we have seen some very encouraging example. You mentioned two of them where we doubled down on the retail presence and without cannibalization effect because the product offer is slightly different. We work on the -- really to distinguish the two product offers somehow it's a very good example with one store dedicated to [indiscernible] and another one dedicated to the main collection and Genius. And we have other projects in this idea for the years to come, but they are going to be very selective. Another good example is London. We know also that when we increase footprint or where we are able to negotiate ground floor location with the example of China, but not only we have had some very good examples in Europe, the increase of traffic and visibility is further increasing the performance of Moncler without any dilution of the sales density. So it is something we are working on. We know that there is a lot also of enhancement of the current distribution that we need to do. So this is why this year, we are going to have slightly more relocation project than only opening, and we are very selective in the choice we are making.

One thing probably, Luca, Gino here to add, I think, to what we were discussing. I think everything you were just mentioning now at the beginning is what internally we always talk about brand elevation, right? And I think beyond what Roberto was mentioning around retail and distribution and the opportunities we have there, I think to your point, I think definitely, we are -- and probably you can see this, and hopefully, you agree with, I think there is a very tangible efforts regarding our Moncler collection and everything we're putting in the market when we are starting to communicate Moncler collection every single season. I think on the other side, you mentioned this. I think Grenoble definitely represents an incredible opportunity for us not only to reclaim what is ours and what is coming from our DNA, but the opportunity to keep bringing the brand to new places from product to the brand, to the experiences you were able to see in St. Moritz and what you were about to see in just a few weeks. And then even in exercises like Genius, right, despite the big effect that Genius normally create, I think you can see efforts regarding certain collections we were able to present Shanghai. And I will use the example of Jil Sander to use one about how we can keep trying to not only extend but push up and elevate the brand very consciously across all the efforts we're trying to put together. Hopefully, that makes sense. I wanted to add that on top of what Roberto was mentioning to you.

I mean about Stone Island, of course, a different story, honestly not that much different story, but let me say, different stage of development of a story that may be similar to Moncler. Of course, as you know, right now, we are investing, we are allocating resources to the brand much more than in the past, still on a qualitative way. And I think that the results of this activity is quite visible. And I mean, I think that you may appreciate the activity, the work that Robert and his team have developed over the past couple of years. Another allocation of resources and capital is something that we plan to develop on the retail network. But as you know, right now, we want first to fully -- I mean to properly develop what we call the retail culture in the existing stores to bring the culture that has developed over the years in Moncler to develop the same culture in Stone Island to make the existing stores more and more productive to work on all the different metrics of retail. And again, it's something that requires a culture that takes time. And so for this year, for example, except with the exception of some very selective new openings that are more expected to develop to reinforce the identity of the brand, we are not planning to open many stores. This kind of capital allocation will happen, may happen next year, may happen more the year after. It's something that, again, we want to do only when we are confident that the machine may work properly. Of course, Stone Island has great opportunities. But again, just to mention one valuable known metric, the sales density of Stone Island is growing, is doing better and better, but it is still below what Moncler is delivering. And so again, this is something that keeps us all the team, Robert and his team very, very busy and very focused.

Sorry, Luca, just to quickly reinforce what was just said, I think that we have very clear objectives and priorities in 2025. As was just said, we are beginning to see metrics that give us encouragement in the retail network. We also -- and I do just want to reinforce that the wholesale footprint that we are arriving at, which is the one that has taken a couple of years to get to, is one that we are confident in. And if we look at sell-through, sellout in the fourth quarter at wholesale, we continue to be one of the top 3 brands in all of our key accounts. So I definitely believe there is work to be done. But again, I'm very optimistic that the conditions are in place to allow us to be successful across all of the strategic pillars that I've outlined.

Next question is from Thomas Chauvet, Citi.

Congratulations on a strong festive season. Two questions, please. Firstly, on the Moncler brand retail KPIs, could you kindly provide some of the KPI for 2024 as you usually do Roberto, notably, volume, price mix, traffic conversion, UPT, et cetera, and ideally sells density. I know it's a lot, but that would be very useful. And secondly, on your Moncler brand DTC performance, you indicated 3% like-for-like for the year, so that would imply around 8% space. Was it around that level in Q4 space of around 8%, 9%, that would imply flat like-for-like or slightly up in Q4 after the Q3 decline. And how does your DTC business looks like at the start of 2025 compared to the comments you made, Roberto, but the performance by cluster. I think it was a comment about Q4, you made any color on Jan and beginning of Feb. I'm aware that, obviously, the Chinese performance is difficult to read, but maybe the other clusters.

Thank you for the question. On the D2C for the start of the year, I think I already said more than enough. So I will stick to what was said during the previous questions. Regarding the retail KPIs for 2024, there were for most of them positive. One was slightly negative, which is the traffic, but it was more than offset by the conversion rate. So at the end, this helped the overall performance. Clearly, it's a year where the performance was driven by mix and by price. So we have seen very positive average selling prices increase during the year. UPT was flat during the year and average transaction value went up to the extent of the price increase that we have had. So overall, you have seen that the effect on the sales density has been to the highest level we have ever had with Moncler. It was on the comp base of plus 1%, but in line with the record year of 2023. That was, by the way, higher than the previous record that was back in 2016. So the EUR 40,000 -- 2019, sorry. So the EUR 40,000 we mentioned during the Capital Markets Day remains an ambition. We are not far from it. We still are missing some of the tourists that we had in the past, especially in Europe because, yes, there is a presence of Chinese in Europe, but absolutely not to the extent that we had before. There is a 10% gap in the weight of Chinese in Europe in 2024 compared to 2019. So the day this will come back, this will definitely help also the overall performance and KPIs. But we are very happy about the overall performance also in terms of repurchase rate, we went up 1 percentage point compared to the year before. So all the efforts that are done in terms of retail excellence helped also by the lot of novelties that we're bringing to the market. Clearly, we are leveraging a lot also on the Genius moment, and there were a few Genius launches in Q4. This also helped the performance of Q4.

Next question is from Chris Gao. CLSA.

This is Chris Gao from CLSA. Congrats on the impressive peak season performance and also I have two questions, please, both related to China. So the first thing is related to Moncler brand. And we just want to understand more about the growth engine behind the China outperformance. So definitely, we observed an overall traffic improvement in retail environment in Q4? And also, just wonder if supply improvement of iconic products could also help with your Q4 performance? And also, if you look into channels, can you help us to break down the online offline growth by channel so that we can understand the growth from different channels that contribute to your strong acceleration in Q4. And the second question is about the Stone Island plans in China. We're very happy see a very strong pickup in APAC growth, which some of the contributions from China. So heading into 2025 and also in the midterm, I want to know more about your store opening plans in this market. And also in terms of the CRM initiative because we are also at a development stage in this market, just in this front, anything in your plan to differentiate it from other men's are lifestyle brands in terms of CRM, in terms of consumer education for Stone Island in China?

Thank you for the question, Chris. I will take the first part. Maybe also I don't know if Gino wants to add something after my answer. I think the results of the Chinese market are not coming by chance. I think the overall results of a number of elements that we have been putting in place since a long time in this market. First, I believe a good understanding about the Chinese consumer. And this is helped by a local team, a Chinese local team that knows it very well. We also developed a lot of the culture around China and Chinese consumer here in the head office. This is now embedded in all the different departments. So we always have part of our thought regarding what we develop, is it relevant or not also for our Chinese consumer. We developed also in the past specific capsule. We are leveraging on strong momentum and what is relevant for the market in terms of events all along the year. I think we have been able to develop a trust and a quality perception of Moncler that is very, very high in the market. But this is not the only element. I think we have also developed -- we are one of the few brands where we are or maybe even the only go-to brand in China for luxury outerwear. So really, when the cold is coming and when people start thinking about fall/winter, we are absolutely top of mind in the -- and there is not a real competitor in the market, at least not in our positioning. There is also some long-term trends in the market that are helping our performance. All the interest of Chinese consumer regarding outdoor that has been emerging post-COVID is definitely helping also the performance, and we believe that this is a trend that is there to stay. We have a very strong team also in terms of retail excellence in the stores that we are mastering this in the best way. And the distribution footprint has been improving a lot in this past year. I was mentioning before all the efforts that have been done and also the discussion with the landlords that have completely changed over the past 5 years where they are now the one proposing better location for Moncler because I think we are interesting because we are providing an alternative in their mall, not being part of big groups in this case, could be sometimes also something that is positive. And we are also a traffic builder. So they know that when they place in some position, we are also driving traffic towards that part. So this is the increase and the elevation of the premium location is something that has been definitively helping. At the end, also the event that was done in Shanghai, which was not the first -- purpose was not to have a drive-to-store strategy by doing the event in Shanghai. But clearly, this has enhanced the visibility of the brand on the market. Results have been positive in China with the Chinese double digit, but also the performance of the Chinese outside of China have been also growing double digit in Q4.

Hard to add more there. I think the only thing I will say, and I think this is connected to what Roberto was mentioning before about the obsession in terms of Europe and then China. And we always say this idea that when we try to do things, it's more -- you probably heard me saying this before, an end-to-end kind of approach, right? We always start, and Roberto mentioned this from consumer knowledge into product, the right product to make sure that we have the right brand voice, retail experience, brand experiences and of course, the leverage of local channels. When you put all that together, for us, the most important outcome is how we can be a meaningful and distinctive brand for that specific regional market. And I think, again, I'm probably repeating a bit of what Roberto was saying just to give a wrap to the answer, but I think this is the way we like to look and when we go and double down in a market. And then, of course, the day by day, the execution, the team that's the difference because at the end, it's all easy to say, but very difficult to execute on a daily basis. But I think this idea of how we approach things more from end-to-end, and it's not only one thing that can make the difference is what probably can help us to achieve some of the results we're sharing with you today.

Just a couple of words on Stone Island's strategy in China. As you know, we opened our regional office at the end of 2023. We have a lean but effective team now in place as Luciano Santel said a little while ago, we are concentrating now on the stores that we have in our network. And above that, as we think about the opportunity in China, the database, the CRM focus, now that we're operating, obviously, our own distribution is an important future opportunity. We have contactability rates in the 90 percentile frame. And we are integrating talent within the community as a form of research project from China. Most recently, Ethan Ruan, who is in the spring/summer campaign and we've had a very positive reaction. So this will continue to be the strategy, a localized approach as evidenced also by the introduction of a WeChat mini program always on in coincidence with the launch of our new website in August.

Next question is from Chiara Battistini, JPMorgan.

First question I have is on the U.S. and your positioning with the American consumers and especially as your approach to open more stores possibly and dedicate and provide more visibility to the brand. Are you happy today about your positioning in the U.S. pricing wise, product wise, how you're comparing versus competition? How do you see yourself what are the main working areas that you see ahead besides the store openings? And the second question, sorry, just a clarification following up on Thomas' question, sorry if I missed. On the space contribution in the second half, in Q4, it looks like there was a big acceleration of space contribution in the second half -- is that related to a pickup in traffic that then boosted the new stores that have been opened? Or is there anything else in that space contribution that we should be keeping in mind, please?

Thank you, Chiara, for the question. I think it's going to be, again, ensure we are going to answer together with Gino. I think the U.S. market represents probably one of the largest opportunity for Moncler for the years to come. And I think we have been working now to set some of the base. It's going to be a multiyear effort. It's like for China and Europe, it took us some years to get to where we are, and here, it's an effort that is going to be a multiyear effort, but we believe in that market. So we have been first completely revamping and reviewing what was half of the business a couple of years ago, which is the wholesale approach that we have in the U.S. having a good collaboration with Saks and moving part of this business, the [indiscernible] and the online into a directly operated business for us, so it's a concession now. We have been also moving Nordstrom into a hybrid model where we are owning now the stock, the sales, the client adviser on the field, even if it's in a multi-brand area. We have now the integration of Neiman Marcus with Saks, which we believe could represent a good opportunity maybe to have an approach that is slightly different than the one we had in the past. So on that part of the work, I think a lot have been done even if it's not really visible. We have also some good experimentation in some of the warmer cities in the market with Houston, Dallas, Atlanta. -- that have been giving good results. So this is clearly opening for us the approach we have on the market. This being said, the footprint approach is not the only one. It's one element of many. Gino will develop what we're going to do in terms of branding. We believe also that Grenoble could represent a big opportunity for North America, so for the U.S., but also for Canada. I think the multilayering approach that we have had in the product development this past year is also helping us to cover more months in terms of sales and more opportunities on the market. So -- and finally, coming back to the footprint expansion, I think the fifth avenue opening that is going to take place at the beginning of 2026 represent a big opportunity also to take more visibility and ownership of New York City, which is the first part of the conquest of the U.S. market for us.

Just a few words to add. I think Roberto said it all. I think the same example we just used for probably for China about the idea of an end-to-end approach. I will -- should not repeat myself. I will say that's the way we are looking about how we're going to this mid- to long-term journey into the U.S. On top of the city focus that Roberto was mentioning and everything he was mentioning even from the retail landscape perspective, I think, of course, we have a big opportunity in terms of the level of brand awareness we need to bring to this market compared to other more mature markets like Europe or China for us. You will see -- and it's not the time probably today to disclose, but you will see very specific efforts connected to that beyond retail, how we can bring a different level of brand awareness into '25, '26 and beyond. Roberto mentioned this, we truly believe in the opportunity of Grenoble being a key driver coming into the U.S. as well for multiple reasons. And then last but not least, we believe that as we go into 2025 and even '26, Genius can be another strong cultural connector to the market and the relevancy of some of the designers we have in the mix and even the launches we have for this year and some of the efforts that will come later we'll double down on that opportunity. So for us, again, go back to the same story of we discussed for China, Europe before and what Roberto mentioned, is definitely an opportunity for us to go end-to-end, and it's not one silver bullet that will solve it at all. It's a collective effort across the entire organization to make sure that we bring this market to its potential.

Yes, about the space contribution and the acceleration in Q4, of course. As you know, we tend also in the past to open our stores more in the second half than in the first half. And so this is quite usual to see some kind of acceleration of the space contribution in the second half of the year. Of course, 8%, I mean, it's not exactly the right number, but I mean, it was still, as we said before, in the region of mid- to high single digit. Again, for this year, as I said before and for the year after, we see the space contribution to lower a little bit to be closer to mid-single digit than mid to high. But again, space acceleration in Q4 in the second half was totally planned and strictly related to our planned retail expansion, new openings and of course, the important projects of expansion or relocation of some stores.

Next question is from Rogerio Fujimori. Stifel.

One perhaps follow-up for Gino. Accelerating growth for footwear was one of the opportunities you outlined for Moncler a couple of years ago. So is there anything to call out in terms of achievements in footwear last year and plans for '25. And one for Luciano. Luciano, how should we think about OpEx inflation in '25, in particular, the rate of inflation for G&A and selling costs, given that I presume marketing will be kept at 7% of sales.

Rogerio, thank you for the question. I think, again, I probably will repeat myself compared to the last call we have. I think here, I think for the past two years now, we have been investing in trying to reset a bit of our footwear and elevating the quality, and I will say the connection to our DNA. We are happy with the evolution of what we call the Trailgrip family. This is something that became almost the synonymous of Moncler footwear, right, to a point where this is something that we're seeing evolving pretty well. And the Trailgrip shoe that started as one shoe just two years ago, today is a full family around 8 different SKUs from winter to summer. So that was the first evolution. I think, of course, as we discussed before, we are not planning to become a complete footwear player. We believe footwears are a very important aspect of our offering. That said, of course, as we go through the year, you will see a new family of products coming in as we go into fall/winter. So more to come there. But so far, really happy that we're able to establish in the past few years a very iconic family and a very product that represents the DNA of the brand.

Yes. Rogerio, about your second question. For 2025, we still see the importance to keep investing in our G&A, because I mean, behind the G&A, there is the cost of organization, the cost, but also the value of our organization. So we need to keep investing in the organization in all the different areas. Because as we grow, also the complexity of our business model grows. And so from retail to digital to supply chain, marketing. And so this is something that we see a contribution and incidence, not much different from the past, but again, no expected decrease. Selling, as you know, behind selling, we report for the major part, the cost of operating our stores. And so as we grow in our DTC business in our retail business, the selling expenses grow. But I mean, you may remember in 2023, the growth of selling expenses was lower than the growth in gross profit, which indicated a very strong productivity of our stores, but this was due to the very strong like-for-like we reported in that year. This year, like-for-like was positive, but lower than 2023. But in any event, you may have seen some kind of stability of the productivity of our stores. Selling expenses grew, but not more than what our gross margin. So overall, this is what we expect also for 2025. Talking about marketing, marketing, you know that our golden rule is to stay within the 7%. Last year, we spent a little bit more, but again, 7% is our light house.

Next question is from Paola Carboni, Equita.

So late. I have very two quick question. The first one is if you can come back again on the performance in the U.S., in particular with the U.S. cluster. You've mentioned that your performance has accelerated from flattish, if I remember correctly, in the previous quarter to up high single digit. So I was wondering what is driving this performance in terms of product mix, especially if you are seeing a bigger interest by the U.S. customer on Grenoble footwear or which price points and so on. And secondly, how do you think about Stone Island for 2025 in terms of pricing on one side, meaning your pricing as much as lower discounts, for example, and about mix on the other side. So how much can these components support the brand performance in the current year. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Paola, for the question. You are right, U.S. was flattish in the U.S. cluster, and it went up to a high to very high single digits towards the end of the year. This is why you see a positive performance on the U.S. market for more clear at the end of the year. and also a positive flow of our American tourists mainly in Europe. Regarding product, I must say that Grenoble is probably -- looks like Grenoble it's probably on the region where it's the most successful. So clearly, the performance of Grenoble also helped. We had also -- if you may recall in some [indiscernible] presentation of the collection that was related to the show, and we had a few events that were run, not only in the Americas, also in the rest of Europe and Asia. Regarding the Grenoble show that was very successful, and we had -- it's an anecdote. But just to explain that it's the first time we had a ticket with one client above USD 100,000 was thanks to the, let's say, the one-to-one trunk show that we run for these clients when they were invited and we presented the show. So they didn't only buy the show, but they buy also into other items, but it was a good way to enhance the visibility of Moncler and create connection with consumers.

Just to respond to the question regarding Stone Island and pricing and mix. In terms of pricing, we don't anticipate any meaningful price increases. And in terms of mix, as I anticipated earlier on, we are seeing good traction in our strategy on core categories. So we anticipate a positive contribution from mix as we advance that strategy.

The next question is from Oriana Cardani, Intesa Sanpaolo.

The first one is about EBIT margin. What do you consider a realistic level for this year? And the second question is about price gap. So what level is now the price gap between Europe, America and China. Thank you very much.

Okay. About EBIT for this year, of course, it's quite early to predict what it may be. But needless to say, but important to remind everyone that I mean we have an mission that is to protect our operating profitability in the region of 30%, 29%, which has been the case over honestly, in the past 11 years. And so this is not going to change for this year. We still have in our set of ambitions and EBITDA in that range. Of course, it will totally depend on the top line. The net future of the business for this year, which is quite a difficult now to predict except for what we said or what Roberto said about the current trading that is very good. But again, very, very early to anticipate any results. About price gap, price gap is for this year with China, which is, of course, are the most important region to highlight is still in the region. I mean, it is below 140, but still closer to 140 than 130. I say that because you know that [ 1.3 ] 130 is our target. Of course, we will not be ready for this year to achieve the 1.3 also because of the appreciation of the local currency. But we are -- and we expect to be all the year below 140. For Japan, price gap is slightly lower for what Alberto said before, we have a price gap between Japan and China, about 5%. Korea normally, we tend to maintain the same pricing we have in China. So again, what I'm saying regards all the Asia. On United States, we are in the region of 1.3, a little bit higher than 1.3.

Okay. I think there are no more questions. So thank you very much to everyone for participating in this call. Let me just give you a quick reminder of the next release. Our Q1 2025 interim management statement will be released on April 16 after market close. And our quiet period will start on March 18. Thank you again for all your questions. And for any follow-up feel free to contact me, and they are our team any time tonight also tomorrow. Thank you again, and have a great evening, everybody.

Ladies and Gentlemen thank you for joining. The conference is now over. You may disconnect your telephones.