Nordnet AB (publ) (SAVE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Okay. Hello, everybody. It's 10:00 a.m., the 3rd of February, and welcome to Nordnet and the presentation of our Financial Report for the Fourth Quarter of 2021. My name is Johan Tidestad, I'm the Chief Communications Officer at Nordnet, and I will be hosting this session. With me today is our CEO, Lars-Ake Norling; and our CFO, Lennart Kran. Lars-Ake and Lennart will make a presentation of our business and our financial numbers for Q4. That will take something around 20, 25 minutes. And after that, we will open up for questions. And during the presentation, all participants will be muted. I will let Lars-Ake and Lennart go through what they have to say first. Then we will come to the Q&A session. You have 2 alternatives to ask questions. You either click on the button at the bottom of the screen that says raise hand, and I will then enable you to speak, and you can ask your question verbally. And you can also send in your question in writing during the whole presentation. If you want to use that alternative, you just use the button that says Q&A at the bottom of the screen, you write your question and I will read it out loud after the presentation. And of course, this presentation will also be available on our corporate website, nordnetab.com, together with a recording of this session as well. Okay, then without further ado, let's start. Lars-Ake, please go ahead.

Yes. Thank you, Johan. Over to the next slide. So first some key highlights for the fourth quarter. So currently, we have now about 1.6 million in order of private savers on our platform and we have 64,000 new customers joining in the fourth quarter. We also see a record level of savings capital exceeding SEK 800 billion in the fourth quarter and also underlying strong net savings of SEK 83 billion. Also a very successful launch of Danish savings account. I'm going to come back to that later in the presentation. You also see 2 awards in the quarter. One is Årets Uppror, it's a bit hard to translate, but the rebellion of the year and it was against the proposed negative changes to the ISK account in Sweden and the government really listened to what we had to say in this case. And we also received a price from Denmark for Stock Broker of the Year. We have the second highest quarter result ever in quarter four with almost SEK 580 million and also the full year has been fantastic with a profit growth of 56% versus 2020. And by far, the best year in Nordnet's history. And we have a proposed dividend of SEK 5.56 per share, and that's 70% up from the dividend we had last year. We can go to the next page. So 2021, a fantastic growth year for Nordnet. We grew the customer base with 380,000 customers during the year or 31%, a 42% growth in the savings capital, both from underlying market growth, but also very high net savings. Overall, high activity on the platform, mainly from more customers coming on to the platform and starting trading. We see revenues up 35% year-on-year, and it's been good growth between -- in all the revenue streams, both the lending, fund and the brokerage business, and we'll talk more about that later as well. And operating expenses is slightly higher than 2020 from the large increase in the customer base, especially in quarter 1 and quarter 2 and slightly higher marketing, but it's in line with the revised guidance that we presented during last year. And also very good growth in the profit that we talked about 56% up, so continued very good scalability in our business. We go to next. So a little bit financial highlights for the fourth quarter. Customer savings capital is the same, of course, as a full year. The number of trades is slightly up quarter 4 2021 versus quarter 4 2020 last year and here, we see that we have more trading customers following the customer growth, but it's less trades per customer due to lower market volatility compared to last year. Revenue is up 16%. Also here, a good growth in our revenue streams, cost imbalance and profit increasing 22% and second best quarter ever when it comes to both revenue and profitability. So we can go to next slide. And we see a continued acceleration of our long-term growth, both when it comes to customers and savings capital. And we talked before about the reasons for that, but the main reason is our focus in building the best platform for sales investment to be really one stop shop for the savers and investors. And every day, we improve the customer experience. For example, we launched a new app version every 5 days. So this is, of course, appreciated by the customers and drive customer satisfaction. The other part is that we now reach critical mass in all the countries. We have enough customers in all countries to drive word-of-mouth-based growth, which is the core of our customer growth. Go to next. So also a very good growth in the customers and net savings. I touched on that briefly before, but we grow the customer base then with 380,000 customers, and that's a record by far. Net savings is SEK 83 billion for the year and comparing to last year, if you take away some one-offs during the IPO, that was SEK 70 billion. So it's up from basically SEK 70 billion underlying. So very strong net savings. And for us, that's the ultimate proof that the customers like our platform, that they also transfer money, start using our products. We'll go to the next. And we have a leading position in the Nordics as #1 digital platform sales and investments, and we have a very good diversification of revenues that you've seen before. Sweden is still the largest, but we see also growth in other countries and Denmark is #2. And also when we look at the growth -- the customer growth, we have the highest growth in the countries outside of Sweden, where we also have the highest margins and the barriers are higher due to Nordnet's share of cross-border trading in those countries. Go to next. We see good development in customers and savings capital across the countries. Of course, the customer growth has been exceptional outside of Sweden. But even though Sweden has a little bit lower growth in customers, if you look at the savings capital growth is very good. So the customer base in Sweden is strong. It's a high savings capital for customer and high income per customer. We go to next. And this is a little bit showing the development in our different revenue streams where the light red is the net interest income or the lending business, dark blue is revenue from the fund business and light blue is the brokerage business. And if you look at this year and compared to last year, we have a balanced growth between the revenue stream. So we have a 20% growth year-over-year in the lending business and 46% growth year-on-year in the fund business, which is exciting because, as you know, fund is a focus area for us, and we're also going to set up a fund company later this year. And the brokerage business is growing around 33%. If you look at the [ mortgage ] sample product, if you look at the lending business is stable. If you look at fund business, it is also stable. It's in the graph down to the right. But the one you see in the light blue here going down in [ mortgage ] is the brokerage margin, and that's due to less trades per customer from lower market volatility in 2021 compared to 2020. We can go to next. And if you look at the trading in more detail, this year, the light blue here is showing the number of customers that trade the quarter. And that increase in quarterly trading customers is following basically increase in our customer base. So the customers we onboard also start to become trading customers. But if we look at the trades per trading customer, we see that we have up in quarter 4 from seasonality, but if you compare to last year, it's lower, and that's due to less market volatility in 2021 versus 2020. But you also see that the share of cross-border trading is still on a high level, around 30%, and that is from the country mix that we have, that we have a high share of cross-border trading in the North Finland and Norway, where we also have the largest customer growth. We go to next. And trading seasonality shows this V-shape also this year. So the light blue is 2021 where we had the top in quarter 1, bottom in July and then it went up later in the year. Same pattern as we've seen as in the previous years, so nothing unexpected there. And normally, then quarter 1 and quarter 4 is where we have the highest trading per customer in Nordnet. Go to next. And also, we have a very strong position across Nordic, being the leading digital platform sales and investments in the Nordics, and we have a clear #1 position both as a platform, but also in NPS, in Norway, Denmark and Finland and a strong #2 position in Sweden. And this is also allowing us to take market share, and this is increasing market share on the full addressable market per country. We have a growth in all countries. And in total, we have right now 6% market share of the total addressable market, which still gives us room to grow for many years to come. Go to next. Continued focus on cost discipline. And even though we had great revenue growth in the last 4 years, you can see here in the graph to the right that we have had stable costs in absolute terms now for 4 years, allowing us to improve the cost margin from 38 bps down to 17 bps. And the key drivers for our good operating leverage is, of course, one, is that we have a very scalable tech platform. We can onboard a lot of new customers without driving costs. That is process simplification and automation. We talked about that before as well, but this is a real win-win for our customers to take the digital journey for mortgage, for example, where a customer can get a more mortgage approved within the same day and we also save a lot of money because we get rid of a lot of manual tasks. Then is our very strong word-of-mouth based customer growth, which allows us to have a low customer acquisition cost. It's about SEK 300 per customer. And if you compare that to lifetime value, it's a very profitable customer acquisition. So lifetime value versus acquisition cost is around 64 turns. And then we also all the time actively managed third-party spend in all shapes and forms. Can we go to next. Some product highlights in quarter 4, as I mentioned in the beginning, we launched the Danish ASK accounts similar to Swedish ISK account. So now we have that kind of product in all countries, but it's been super successful. It's currently 46,000 accounts open and 20% market share already, even though we only had the product for a few months. We also released [ Dotnord ] in -- on the web. We've had it, as you know, before, in the app, but this has been highly appreciated by our customers. And we also launched a new chart engine for the web and app and have a high resolution of the charge and also going with time series and also more comparisons. And also this has been really liked by the customers. So with that, I hand over to you Lennart.

Thank you very much. You can go to the next slide, please. And actually, the next slide once more. And I'm going to summarize a little bit about the financial performance during the Q4 here. But the foundation of it all is, of course, as we already told you, 1.6 million customers across Nordic, that's a great figure. But also the stable growth, which is 19% to 31% now year-on-year, which is very, very stable and good continuously. And also the savings capital showing the same growth rate, ending up at SEK 800 billion plus. Those 2 are the main drivers of the value and the profit, of course, in Nordnet as we told you before. But it's also important to see that it's all in revenue -- all asset classes that do increases, both brokerage and funds and deposits. So we really have the foundation for it. You can go to the next slide, please. And this is what we can see in the revenue actually coming from SEK 350 million plus in 2019, revenue per quarter, adding up to SEK 300 million in 2020 and now an additional SEK 200 million. So we have actually stepped up each year on a quarterly basis. And also this one is very stable, ending up now on SEK 890 million in revenue in Q4 '21. So it's great to say, and that is the result of those new customers, the savings capital growth and the activity level, of course. You can go to the next slide. During this time, in spite of all the new customers, I mean, we doubled them since 2018 and the savings capital as well and the increased activity. We have been able to maintain the cost on a stable level. And that is what we said for this is the operating leverage of the tech platform, of the services that we do in the business model. So it's really good to see that this has been up the years, not just 1 year or not just for a quarter, but through all quarters. Of course, some minor deviations, but still on a stable level. We can take the next slide, please. All these results, of course, in great increase of revenue, ending up at SEK 3.6 billion in 2021, having the cost of SEK 1.1 billion, leaving all the increase in revenue almost at least at the profit ending up at year end SEK 2.4 billion. It's a great figure to see, and it's an increase of 56% from last year. I'm very pleased with that. But that is to say, that's the customer level, that's the savings capital, the net savings and also, of course, the activity. But one thing that we all should be aware of, that is it's across Nordic-based and we have reached the critical mass in all countries throughout those 3 years that we have reported here. Please, next. We also have a balance sheet, of course, but mainly our business is off balance. As you can see to the left side, we have those SEK 800 billion savings capital from our customers. 70% of those are brokerage equities to say and 20% is phone business, but 10% of them are deposits, and that ends up in our balance sheet. And therefore, the balance sheet has increased by SEK 14 billion this year, which we do have as liquidity. And we do have to do something with it, so we do lend about SEK 25 billion. This is one-third to our customer, and that is to support the other business, the savings and investment business. And that is also the part that has grown. This is the margin lending and the mortgage part. Those are the main increases. What we do here is also maintain this lending portfolio with very low credit losses. It's actually decreased, but I see it's maintained in the same level and the credit losses are all due from the unsecured part that we have on a stable level of SEK 4 billion going forward as well. But the credit quality is the same, I could say, maybe improving a little bit, but it's about the same that we do have. All other credit losses are just provisions. And we have not had any losses on the mortgages we launched the product, and we don't see any increased risk in it either. We have good collateral and very good customers. What I usually say is that, yes, we can say when someone is delayed is usually one customer, not more than that on a monthly basis, and that is repaid directly. So it's really a good credit quality. We can take the next page. And also in capital situation, we have maintained the position that we have with a capital adequacy of 21.6% with a requirement of 17.1%. So we have a good room here, buffer for ourselves. The real constraint in the capital perspective is actually leverage ratio, which we have increased from last year 4.0% to 4.8% now and the requirement or -- yes, should be 3.9% from the regulators. So also there, we have good headroom to be around. During this fourth quarter, we have done some parts to optimize the capital structure. We did issue SEK 81 million of SEK 600 million, and we also paid out a dividend of SEK 443 million. So that is the change of structure and we also [ wrote ] down to optimize the capital structure and no other reasons for it. Yes. Next, please. And as I said, I mean, what we do have the constraints is the leverage ratio. We have own funds of SEK 3.8 billion, and we're required to hold that this exposure level, SEK 3.1 billion in equity for that. So what we do see is, okay, how are we affected by the leverage ratio? It's the deposit side, of course, because that is the one part that increases our balance sheet and nothing else, with not the trade of the capital structure going down. So we have to measure that in respect of how much more deposits can we take on. And as of year-end, we were able to take on SEK 46 billion compared to the SEK 70 billion in deposits that we already had, without breaching the minimum requirement of 3.0 in leverage ratio. And as you can see, the deposits mainly are ordinary growth with the savings capital of the customers. There is only one time, and that was March 2020 when we had the corona pandemic coming on, where we had a lot of sell off to derisk, but also a lot of new customers and also customers putting in net savings that increased this dramatically. And that is what we have to watch all the time. After that, yes, we held on to the high deposit side, but we also see that deposits per customer went down because we had such an increase of new customers as well. So that is what we always watch and have to be aware of. We can go to the next page. Do you want to go for this Lars-Ake or should I? I think you're on mute.

I can do it, just short, I mean this is under the summary of where we are in 2021 versus financial targets, and we over delivered on most of them. And as you know, we're going to have a Capital Markets Day next Friday, where we're going to present updates to the financial targets for the midterm. But as you see customer growth 31% compared to a guidance of 10% to 15%, in spite of this growth, we see that we still have very good savings capital per customer. Also meaning that new customers coming in are building up capital fairly quickly. And also then the revenue margin 53 bps versus the guidance of slightly above 40 bps. And operating expenses, it's in line with the reguidance we did around [ SEK 1,140 ] million. And also then that we follow the guidance of dividend of 70% payout of the net income. But more to come on next Friday. You can take the next slide. Just a short reminder of the focus area, starting, of course, with the customers. We want to be the #1 choice for the Nordic savings and investors. We want to be this one stop shop for savings and investments with a great customer experience. And to achieve that, we every day then build on our best platform for savings and investments. There is new features in the app and web and new exciting savings products and also automation on customer journeys. And of course, we want to maintain our very strong position in the Nordics and even strengthen, especially in Sweden, and also see that we have low churn also going forward. When it comes to the employees, you know we will never have happy customers unless we have happy employees. So we want to see continued upward trend on our customers -- or employee satisfaction that we currently do. And also we can attract and retain top talent, it's really more for talent out there. Then it's a sustainable business. We are in the trust business. We need to earn that trust every day, and it can easily be lost. So it's key for us to manage our risks and not least the combined risks in a good way and that overall then are trusted and like brand. Last area is profitable growth to really capture this fantastic potential we have in the Nordics with 6% market share today. So we have room to grow for many years to come. But of course, we focus quite a lot on ensuring that we also have a scalable business going forward and at least continue to automate the customer journeys. So with that, we end the presentation, Johan, and it's time to open up for Q&A.

Yes, sir, it is. Thanks a lot, guys. Time for questions. And like I said before, you just raise your hand digitally, and I will enable you to speak. In some cases, you also need to accept to be unmuted and then it will show up a request on your screen. Or you can send in your question in writing by using the Q&A button. And we actually take a question in writing first. It comes from Jacob Kruse, Autonomous, and it's about costs. Do you have the visibility on future spending to be able to maintain absolute cost targets? Or are there scale effects, that mean we should look for you to move to relative cost targets such as cost income or cost in relation to savings? What can you say about that?

You get the full update on next Friday, but it's going to -- it's not going to be anything unexpected and no major cost increases, but we'll cover it in full in next Friday.

Yes, Capital Markets Day on the 11. Also from Jacob Kruse, competitor is launching a pensions portal in Sweden, anything in the Nordnet pipeline when it comes to that, Lars-Ake?

Yes, we work extensively at pension in all of our countries where we launched the EPK product in Norway. We also have automated transfers in Sweden. We look at opening up the full market, pension market with Legrand in Denmark. And in Sweden, specifically, yes, we're going to, of course, continue to improve our front end, but the main issue in Sweden is not really the front end it is the back end. Is that transfer process is quite tedious. There's a lot of manual steps. You need to have sign up from an employer, a lot of shuffling with papers back and forth between insurance companies. So what we also know before very hard in Sweden is to introduce an automatic transfer hub that we have in Norway that manages all the transfers between the [ quotas ] in a 100% automatic way. So it's just a press button and basically transfer is done. So we also put a lot of focus on lobing to have also transfer hub in Sweden. And that needs to come from the government or from regulation. I don't think it's going to happen by itself.

Thank you. We're going to let the first verbal question and it is from Jacob Hesslevik, SEB.

Can you hear me.

Yes, we can. Please go ahead.

So my first question is on interest rate sensitivity. If rates were to increase 100 basis points, how large would the effect be in your P&L?

Do you want to take that, Lennart?

Yes, I can take that one. I mean you can have a simple answer, and that is, if we don't do anything, we as -- we have maintained it on the treasury portfolio that would be 1% on the treasury portfolio, which is about SEK 50 billion and that would give about SEK 500 million, of course. But it's not that easy, of course. We do have negative interest on deposits in Denmark, which we will increase costs on as well and things like that, and our margins. But what we have is guiding is actually that we set up the maturity structure in the quarterly reports on the treasury portfolio. So you can see how much is fixed and for how long as well as how much is in different levels of credit risk in cap bonds and governments and things like that. So you can do your own judgment, because it really depends on when it's done and how quick it is done as well.

Fairly quickly. I mean we get a substantial increase -- through in both the treasury, but also like in the lending portfolio as well and also treasury is very short-term notes or floating rate notes.

Perfect. That's very clear. My next question is actually to Lars-Ake. In the report, you say that Nordnet will offer residential mortgages in Norway going forward. Is this through Stabelo? Or will you partner up with a local bank like Sbanken?

No, we set it up ourselves. So we build on the fully automatic mortgage journey we have in Sweden, and so we're going to adapt that to the Norwegian market. So hopefully, the most digitized journey also in Norway when we launch. And it's going to be, as in Sweden directed to Private Banking segment with, of course, very attractive, also interest rates.

All right. You kind of answered the question already with the Jacob's question before, but on cost. I mean, your peers guiding for over 20% cost increase for 2022. I mean, how comfortable are you that you can keep up with investment and innovations with your current cost level? Or do you foresee any large investment need in the short-term?

No, I think I mean at least half our cost base today is product contacted that we reinvested in the platform every day. And we know also that we can improve scalability in the platform, especially with this automation of customer journeys that will take out cost there as we want to invest a little bit more is tech resources because we have a very interesting, exciting road map ahead of us. And of course, we want to deliver that as fast as possible. But to do that, you need more engineers, but that we talked about before. But you won't see anything unexpected from us, when we guide on that in [indiscernible].

Thank you, Jacob. So the next person up on the stage is Patrik Brattelius from ABG.

I also have some follow-up questions regarding the cost. If we dig into the dynamics here. So what is the status on runoff of old IT systems and a reduction in the need of consultants going forward?

Yes. So we -- as you know, a large part of our platform is modernized both the front and the back end. But what we do know is that we also step-by-step move the back end to the cloud to get a more scalable and also secure solution. And I think last year, it was around 40% of the development was on the cloud-based part and this year, it's probably going to be 80%. So we're going to pretty fast shift to the cloud-based solution. But when it comes to consultants in tech, we don't have that many left, actually, we have a handful. And the rest, we have scaled up tech, but that's the own resources, and that's the way we focus also going forward in tech to employ our own engineers.

Okay. So the cost savings from these 2 actions are -- we have seen the majority of that already then?

Yes. Then we have consultancy in other parts of organization as well. But when we try, of course, to limit consultants as much as possible over time.

Okay. If I look at the personnel, it didn't increase that much in Q4, but now to an earlier question, it sounded like you need to ramp up the staff. Does the increase in savings capital make you see a need for more personnel? And how many do you expect to need to increase?

Not really because it's a scalable model. We needed to increase in customer service and part operations during quarter 1, quarter 2 last year because there was such a tremendous inflow of customers, where we now have a more stable inflows, still higher, but stable, we can manage with the staff that we have more or less. So where we scale up is mainly within product and tech because we want to have -- yes, move faster basically.

Okay. Then I don't have -- well, I have one more question. It's a little bit -- the other income, I guess that is largely driven by IPO fees here in Q4. So how do you view the pipe into 2022? Is there fewer IPOs coming onto the market where you're participating? Or what do you expect to see there on this?

It's a little bit hard to predict. It has been a strong pipe for 2022. It depends, of course, going forward a little bit on the volatility in the market. But if it's -- become a little bit calmer, I think we're going to see a strong pipeline also in 2022. It might not be as high as 2021, but I think still a very strong pipeline.

Thanks a lot, Patrik. And next one up is Ermin Keric from Carnegie.

Do you hear me?

Yes, we can. Please go ahead.

Perfect. I was just wondering if you could say anything about the behavior of customers, now when we've seen quite volatile markets during January, they continue to be active even if they lose some money or have people been excessively risk-taking and so on. Is there anything you could share on that front?

Yes. I think they've been active. I mean, on average, we had 290,000 trades per day in January, which is a high number. Also, we know that January normally is high, but it being generally as high it was only last year's January was higher, but then the market was off the charge when it came to volatility. So they are active, but they are sensible as well. I mean they sell some, they buy some and especially, they see opportunities in the buy side. We haven't seen any panic, I would say, in the base so far.

That's helpful. And then on the NII, I mean, the NIM is fairly stable. But underlying, you have quite big jumps both on interest income and interest expense. And also, if I look at the NIM in Norway and in Denmark, both are having quite big jumps but in different directions. Could you give us any color on that, please?

You can probably give the details, Lennart. But, I mean, overall, there's no -- the margin lending and the mortgage and personal loans, their yields are fairly stable. Then you the treasury effect in Norway, which is, of course, positive since they increased the rate now going into quarter 4. And then Denmark, there -- I think they lowered their rate, but we also get compensated. So we charge negative interest rates in Denmark. So we also get an income in Denmark. But it is some details you don't understand then I suggest you to take that off [indiscernible].

Yes. We can take it off. One thing is that the cost for deposit target and resolution fees are increasing for banks as us, due to the construction and that is also an effect in just Q4, which you can see in the figures as you really on license. But we can go through that, you can call me later on and we can look at your questions.

Sounds perfect. And then the last question was just on the leverage ratio. Are you feeling comfortable with 4.8%? Or is that too much or too little headroom to the 3.9% requirement you have?

Lennart?

Yes. I would say I'm feeling comfortable with that. And as I said before, I think the main thing to watch here is really how much deposit increase can we take on. And with that, I'm very comfortable and also seeing how the development is in a regular basis. But we also need to be aware of that it can be an exceptional case once again, you never know that. But I feel comfortable with it, yes, definitely.

Thanks a lot, Ermin. I will do some questions in writing here before we go then in the speaker line. This is from Gurjit Kambo, JPMorgan. Lars-Ake, can you provide an update on the progress in the APK product offering in Norway? And the second question from Gurjit is can you explain a bit what the ISK product is? What is it? And how does it work?

What's the second one you said?

Can you explain the ISK ES core product?

The Swedish...

Yes, the Swedish product exactly.

Yes. Anyway you do Johan. I think you're the best one. Yes, the APK -- we have, I think, around SEK 3.3 billion in that now. And I don't fully remember the number of customers, but it's around 12,000, 13,000, I think. So it slowed down a little bit since the peak when we launched, but we get a steady inflow and we have the customers that actively choose their platform, we are the #1 there in market share. But we work also very actively with promoting the product and talking about it, informing about it, the marketing as well because pension is a bit slow moving. So you need to be there and remind the customers when we focus, of course, is the own customer base where we have more than 300,000 customers who we want to convince to move to the APK product over time. And ISK product. I don't know if you want to...

Yes, I can take it if you want. So the ISK, it's a product in Sweden that was launched about 10 years ago, which it's an account type that makes it much easier to save in stocks and funds, because you don't have to do any tax declarations on the separate trade transactions. And also, you don't pay any tax on capital gains to just pay a small percentage every year of the value of the account. So this has been the dominant and the most popular account types -- all are Nordic markets, and we have launched them as well. And I don't know if you want to comment that Lars-Ake on the market share we have in the other Nordic countries.

Yes, we're very successful in the Finnish accounts, for example, I think it's 70% market share, and I think we talked about it does count in Denmark fantastic progress in short time and also very strong in Norway. But what we talked about in the beginning there, there was a hint from the government that they want to make changes to the ISK, negative changes for the customers. And there was a lot of debate and noise in the market on that. But we actively took a position to save the ISK as it is because it's very popular. And we have also gone a lot of signatures from customers that we had into the finance minister. And I think they listened to what we had to say and it's been quiet since then.

Yes. Okay. Thank you. So next up is Emil Jonsson, I think, from DNB. Correct?

Can you hear me?

Yes, we can. Please go ahead.

All right. Excellent. So we've already spoken a bit about the costs. I just wanted to ask, has anything changed on that topic lately that has given you reason to think you'll need to invest a little bit more in 2022? Or is it -- are the expectations the same as they've been in the past couple of months?

Overall, it's about the same.

All right. And the -- on the other income line item, was there anything other than IPO fees that stuck out this quarter?

It's mainly IPO.

Thanks a lot Emil. So a couple of questions you're writing. What is about new markets from Alexander. Do you have any time table for opening up new markets for trading and which markets will be the first to launch?

Yes. So we're planning to expand the markets for trading. We're looking at the markets connected to Euronext and also our partner Citi. So one of the first up is going to be on London stock exchange, but then we'll also look at a number of other markets in Europe to start with.

Interesting.

We really benefit of the corporation, we have, especially with Citi. We can reuse a lot of the solutions that we have for the trading in the U.S. and Germany.

Yes. Two more questions in writing have come in. One is about -- you spoke about the maintained costs level. Is that high or low according to the standard in the industry? Can you say something about the cost level overall [indiscernible]?

Yes. But I think now we are -- I mean, our cost margin is down to 17 bps versus savings capital and the trajectory is down, continued down, but also our cost to income is, of course, if you compare that to other banks is also very good. And I don't know if you have the latest number on cost to income Lennart, but...

No.

But, it's definitely very competitive.

Good. And last question today is what direction do you expect for interest income over 2022 and the direction of the interest rates? How responsive are your loans to rate changes. For example, what term fixed are your mortgages on average?

You want to answer that Lennart. Mortgage?

I mean it's 4 different markets, of course. And we have a situation in Norway where they are increasing the interest rates already. And -- but we also -- those products are all market -- in a competitive market, especially the margin lending side. So it's not automatically we increased it by the increase of interest rates, of course, but some adjustments will be made. According to the mortgages, yes, we follow it, but we're still having the best interest rate in Sweden, and we maintain that one. So it's really important for us to do that. So it's not the correlation to 100% or anything like that with interest rates. However, in the treasury portfolio, that will be more relevant to see, especially in Norway when they do the increase. We see a better interest rate in Norway on the liquidity portfolio side.

We don't have any fixed term contract on any of our loans. So it's easy to change the rate if you want, but of course, we need to adhere to what the rest of the market is doing, but it's...

Yes. Okay. I think that was it for the questions. Thanks a lot, guys, for joining us today, and a lot of great questions. And before we close, I just want to say you're all very welcome to our Capital Markets Day, Friday, next week, and you can still sign up by going into the nordnetab.com., and that is also where you find all the information about Nordnet as a company. So until then, thanks again for joining us today and for your interest in Nordnet. Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Thanks. Bye.