Nordnet AB (publ) (SAVE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Nordnet and more specifically, welcome to our Capital Markets Day. Hope you are as excited as we are about this event. We have a full day ahead of us with a lot of talented people from Nordnet that will take you through most aspects of our business. Again, much welcome. Here we go. [Presentation]

Welcome back. My name is Johan Tidestad, I'm the Chief Communications Officer at Nordnet. And I will try to guide you through this day in the best possible way. As you might know, Nordnet has been listed this time around since November 2020, and this is actually our very first Capital Markets Day. We are very much looking forward to this event, and we're happy to see that so many of you have signed up to join us this day. The corona restrictions in Sweden have just been lifted 2 days ago, but we decided a couple of weeks ago to make this event a digital only, so we stick to that plan. But no worries, you will be able to interact with us and asking questions, of course, I'll come back to that later. We will have a lot of speakers here on the stage today. And the purpose of this day is, of course, to go through and present Nordnet to you in such a way that you feel that you know everything about this company. We'll go through our strategy and make certain deep dives. We'll also talk about our updated financial targets. And I guess that most of you have seen that we sent out the press release this morning with our updated midterm financial targets. And as you can see to the right hand of this slide, we have a really nice bunch of people here today that will talk to us during the 4 hours we have together, and that brings us to the agenda. Lars-Åke will first make a short introduction of Nordnet to make sure that everybody is on the same page for the rest of the day. After that, we'll go into our 2025 strategy. And then we will cover things like our different channels, tech strategy, people, ESG and compliance. That is the first block. And after that, we'll have a Q&A session, and I will come back to how that works in practice. Then we'll go into our 4 different markets and cover topics like addressable market, Nordnet's market share, financial numbers and plans for 2022. And we end that point on the agenda with the Q&A session, and then it's time for a 30-minute lunch break. When we meet again, it's time for the growth part of the agenda. We look into our different opportunities in securities brokerage, mutual funds, pension and lending, and we'll get to meet the respective managers of these business areas. Q&A session, of course, and then Lars-Åke, and our CFO, Lennart, will tell you everything you want to know about the operating leverage and the capital situation. Lastly, Lars-Åke will sum up what you've heard today, and we'll open up for a final Q&A for the day. Regarding questions to our speakers, we do it like this. As you see on the agenda, we'll stop for a Q&A session after each block. And if you want to ask a question, you just press the Q button on your screen, sending your question in writing, and I will pick it up and forward it to the speakers on the stage. You can be anonymous, if you like, but of course, it's nice if you write your name there as well. And remember that you can send in your questions anytime. Okay then, let's do this. And please let us welcome the first speaker up on the stage, our captain of the ship, CEO, Lars-Åke Norling. No people here today, Lars-Åke, no applause, I'm sorry about that. But how does it feel to stand here on our very first Capital Markets Day?

Yes, it feels great.

Why is it important according to you, that we do an event like this?

Yes, I think it's a little bit more than a year now since we had the IPO. We decided to update also the financial targets. We want to share the new strategy and also do some deep dives, not least in the growth agenda for Nordnet.

Okay then. Introduction to Nordnet and 2025 strategy. Take it away.

Yes. Thank you. So we're going to start with an introduction to Nordnet for participants not that familiar with the company. And in Nordnet, we've had a clear purpose since the company was founded in 1996, and we exist to democratize savings and investments. And through innovation, we challenge traditional structures like the big banks and pension companies. And we give the private investors the tools, the information and the products they need to succeed. We currently have around SEK 760 billion in savings capital on the platform, around 1.6 million customers across our Nordic footprint, and also very high activity level, in general, on a platform with around 70 million trades on the platform in 2021. And we are the #1 digital platform for savings and investments in the Nordics. We are the #1 domestic broker on the Nordic exchanges in 2021. You can see that in the graph to the right. We also have an overall #1 position when it comes to customer satisfaction. We measured that through NPS, with a clear #1 in Denmark, Finland and Norway and a strong #2 in Sweden. And we also have overall compared to other cross-Nordic platforms, we have #1 market share of addressable market. And our aspiration is to be the #1 choice for Nordic savers and investors. And we want to achieve this by having a real state-of-the-art platform for all their savings and investment needs and also a really good customer experience, of course, the most satisfied customers. We're striving for what we call a one-stop shop for savings and investments. So you as a private investor should be able to find all the products and tools that you need on the platform for your savings. And our brand promise is building the best platform for savings and investments. And this is our main focus, this is what we do every day, and we will, of course, never be done. Everyday we'll be building on our platform. Everything from launching new features in our app and our web, launching new financial products, exciting financial products, automating the customer journeys and also secure that we have tools for the customers to make informed decisions on their investments. But you, as a customer, if you are on our platform, you should be able to have higher returns over time by using the products we have and provide. And we really believe in focus to succeed. And of course, our main focus is savings and investments. We do have some complementary lending products, but the core is savings and investments. And we will not go into full-service banking in any shape or form. And the main target group is a private investor. We have some smaller companies as well, but the majority of our customers is the private investors. Focus is also on the Nordic region, the 4 big Nordic countries. We have around 6% market share of the addressable market today. So we have ample room to grow for many years. And of course, we highly believe in digital distribution. We're fully digital today and we will remain also fully digital going forward. And I'm going to talk a little bit now about our main segments and our offerings. Starting to the left, you see our main customer segments, where at the bottom is a traders segment. That's a smaller segment, but the segment with the highest demand. They want a platform with 100% uptime and they want to have the right tools on the platform, and they basically trade for a living. Then we have the investor segment, which is, by far, the largest segment when it comes to revenue. And investors, they are very interested in the market in general, follows the market, investing in shares and funds, but they don't day trade. And they also want a lot of information and also guidance. And this segment, overall, we want to, of course, strengthen over time. And then we have the savers segment, that's the largest segment when it comes to number of customers, but not in revenue. And savers, they are not necessarily very interested in the market. They're saving mainly for a rainy day, saving for the future, and it's mainly savings in funds on a monthly basis. And the important part here is to have a really easy experience. It should be really simple to select funds and set up a monthly saving. And this segment, we want to grow in by this big focus we also have on funds now and we're going to talk more about that later in the presentation. Then we have the customer offerings in the other dimension, where we have the traditional retail offering, then we have the private banking offering. So if you have more than SEK 2.5 million on our platform, you get special offers. For example, you get a very attractive rate on your mortgage. So if you have SEK 15 million or more, you actually get the lowest market rate in Sweden today of 65 bps. And then we have the partner offering also that partners can also connect our platform and especially the wealth managers. And that means that you as a customer can also decide that some of your accounts, you want to have discretionary management by our partner whilst you manage other accounts on your own. And again, we really want to be this one-stop shop for savings and investments. And for us, that's a key differentiator. So you, as a private investor, you should be able to find all the products that you need on our platform for your savings. And of course, with a great customer experience, but also, of course, attractive pricing. And it's everything then from secured brokerage where you as a customer can trade on a large number of instruments on a large number of markets. We have the broadest fund platform with over 2,000 funds today. We have pension products in Sweden, Norway and Denmark, and we're going to also expand that to Finland. You as a customer can also borrow on your portfolio with margin lending, very popular product in all countries. And then retail lending, we only so far have in Sweden. That's a portfolio of unsecured loans, but mainly it's mortgage offering to our Private Banking segment. And the mortgage offering, we also look at expanding here in the coming years. We're going to talk more about that. And then we have the social investment platform, Shareville, which is a true USP for us. And Rasmus later we will talk a lot about Shareville and our plans for Shareville going forward. A little bit about the Nordnet history. So we have been a company since 1996, starting in Sweden in online brokerage. Then in 2001, we was listed for the first time. Then we also expanded Nordnet from Sweden to Norway, Denmark and Finland, we also expanded the product offering. Then in 2017, the company was taken private by Öhman, the founder family -- or company and Nordnet Capital. And the reason for this was that there was a need to do a major transformation of the business and especially a modernization of the digital platform. And we launched a new app during that time, we launched a new web and also modernized the back-end systems. And this enables far better user experience, a lot better than we had before, but also better scalability. And this job was done in summer of 2020, and then the owners also decided to relist the company, and we relisted in November 2020. And now the main focus is to capture this fantastic growth potential we have in the Nordics. We have 6% market share today. So fantastic growth potential for many years. And this is going to be enabled also by the Nordnet 2025 strategy that we're going to talk more about later. And we're also going to have a special session just focusing on growth. Some highlights since IPO. November 2020 was the IPO and the number you see is '21 versus 2020. And we have added 380,000 customers in 1 year, added SEK 240 billion in savings capital, SEK 80 billion in net savings, big numbers. Also very high activity on the platform overall, 72 million trades. We launched a number of products, like own pension accounting in Norway, digitized mortgage in Sweden, savings account in Denmark and also a fully digitized pension journey in Sweden as well. Also focus a lot on funds, we also applied to set up our own fund company. 99.9% uptime on the platform in spite of a number of trading records during 2021. And all-time high NPS in the customer base. And we also launched a large number of features in our app and web. And just as an example, we launched a new version of the app every 5 days. So every day almost the customers get new stuff, either on the web or on the app. And this is boiled down to fantastic, of course, financials. We increased the revenue 35% and operating profit with almost 60%. And we see an accelerating growth, both in customers and on savings capital, as you can see on this slide. And the reason for this is few. One is that we everyday improve customer experience, but -- by our focus on building the best platform savings investments. So every day, we try to do and improve our platform. The other part is that we have now critical mass when it comes to customers in all of our countries. So that means that we also can enable a very efficient word-of-mouth growth that customers recommend our platform to each other. But to do that, you need to, of course, have enough customers. We also, as you know, have rigorous focus on cost discipline to drive our operating leverage. So in spite of a very strong revenue growth the last years, we have managed to keep the costs flat in absolute terms for 4 years. So it's a truly scalable business model that we have. And if you look at the cost margin, that's been going from 38 bps down to 17 bps with a downward trajectory. And the key drivers for us to -- for operating leverage, of course, is scalable tech platform we have. Elias will talk more about that later, that we can onboard a lot of new customers without driving costs. The other part is process simplification, automation, which I was going to talk more about. But this is a core area for us, and it's a win-win. It's a win for the customer because if you do this, it works better for the customer. It's also a win for us because it save costs. So 1 example is this digitized mortgage journey that we launched last year in Sweden. That allows you as a customer to get a mortgage within the same day, if you want. But at the same time, we save a lot of money. Then we have this also very efficient word-of-mouth customer growth. So we'll have low customer acquisition costs and also versus high lifetime value on the platform, it's a very profitable customer growth. I'm going to talk more about that later. And of course, then we put a lot of focus to manage our third-party spend. And all in all, this boils down to strong financials. We see the revenue increasing with average 40% per year, driven from increase in customers, savings capital, of course, and activity on the platform. But you also see that then the cost is flat for the last 4 years. So the entire revenue increase basically end up on the bottom line. So we are a tech company with a truly profitable growth. Also, as you saw with the press release, we've decided to revise the medium-term financial targets. Starting with the customer growth. So in light of very strong customer growth the last 3 years, we decided to increase the guidance from 10% to 15% growth per year on customer base to 15% per year. Average savings capital per customer since we have also very strong net savings coming from SEK 410,000 per customer to SEK 450,000 per customer. Also, income in relation to savings capital. So as we see now very strong growth in all our revenue streams, both funds, brokerage and lending, we increased that from 40 bps to 45 bps. On the cost side, we guide now on the mid-single-digit growth in the coming years, partly from inflation, but mostly that we onboard more tech resources to be able to faster deliver on our exciting road map. Whilst the dividend payout ratio is -- remains the same, 70% of the net profit. So in summary, we already lead in digital platform for savings and investments in the Nordics. We have a strong position in all big Nordic countries and we have a very liked and trusted brand. And we're also very proud of our passionate and talented people. I think that's also a true differentiator for Nordnet. And this is across the organization, but not least and also in product and tech. We have very strong growth, as you've seen, both in customers savings capital and revenue. But in spite of this, we have only so far 6% market share of the addressable market, so great growth potential. Really scalable business model as we saw as well, and we're also capital light. We don't tie up a lot of capital to grow, then allowing for good dividends per year. We're going to cover that in more detail also later. So that was a short introduction to Nordnet. Then we move to the next session, which is partly new for you here, and that's the Nordnet 2025 Strategy. This is the first time we present this, and we're going to talk about our strategic ambitions, but then focus a lot on how we will achieve those. So there's a lot of focus on the how here. Again, aspiration, #1 choice for Nordic savers and investors. We want to be this best one-stop shop with a fantastic customer experience, but also then attractive pricing overall. And our key strategic ambition is starting with engaged customers. It all starts with the customers, of course. It then continues, building the best platform for savings and investments with the new features on app, web, new products, automated journeys. And then we want to strengthen our NPS customer satisfaction position to strengthen the #1 position we have in Norway, Denmark and Finland, and close the gap to Avanza in Sweden, where we're currently #2. And of course, this should enable a -- continue to have high customer retention and low churn. . But you also know, we would never have happy customers unless we have really passionate and talented employees. So it's also a big focus area for us to continue to have an upward trend on satisfaction with employees. We measure that also by NPS and also secure that we can attract and retain top talent because there's really a war for top talent out there today. Then it's a sustainable business. We are in a trust business. We need to earn that trust every day. And we especially need to manage the risks we have in a good way, both compliance risks and other risks. And of course, we need to be seen as a bank and a savings platform -- as a really trusted and liked brand. Trust is a key component here. Then lastly, profitable growth that we now capture this fantastic growth potential we have in the Nordics, 6% market share, like I talked about -- many years to grow. But also that we secure, that we continue to have a scalable business model that we've shown in the last 4 years. And this is, of course, going to be enabled by the tech platform we have that we now step-by-step moved to the cloud, but also this -- that we automate all of our customer journeys. So how will we then reach those ambitions? What capabilities are needed? And that's everything then from delightful digital channels to have the best app or web basically out there, to be this one-stop shop for savings investments, true differentiator for Nordnet. That we have this full process automation -- we're going to automate everything that's possible to automate. And we also know we have a lot of data in the organization, but we need to use that data to -- when we make decisions, but also use that data to make a better personalized experience for our customers. Then it's a scalable cloud-powered platform. So the platform we have now, piece by piece, [ will be ] moved out to the cloud, Elias will talk about that, but that really shows scalability. Of course, that we have best-in-class people and also a really efficient operating model where we're also going to touch briefly on. But this is all then predicated also on the ESG part. ESG is becoming more and more important, not least in the savings business where trust is key. So we have ESG embedded in our DNA via our purpose to democratize savings investments, but we do a lot of other things in this area as well. Johan will talk more about that. But then we specifically lifted out strong compliance and risk management. That's, of course, vital and key part of the G part in ESG -- in the governance part. So I think that was a short introduction to the strategy from my side. So I hand over to you, Johan.

Thank you for that, Lars-Åke, for the time being, and we'll save the questions for later. You will come back.

Yes.

So now it's time for the next person on stage and it's Rasmus Järborg. You're no stranger to this company, Rasmus, but very brief who are you and what are you doing here?

I am the Chief Product Officer and also recently, Deputy CEO. So I run product across our business areas, but also our digital channels and digital marketing.

Yes. So you're going to join us a couple of times today, but now it's time to talk about platform and channels. So please go ahead, Rasmus.

Yes, this is my favorite part. So hold on. Before we get started, let's turn on dark mode, that feels much better. All kidding aside, we just shipped dark mode in the web just before Christmas as an early Christmas gift to our users and they love it, and it also saves 80% of the energy for your screens, so a bit of ESG also there. So with my time here today, I will take you through our digital channel strategy, but let me start really with our key selling proposition. And I think you'll hear all of my colleagues here today describe really how the secret sauce for Nordnet is this combination of a leading customer experience in our channels in both app and web, but really combined with a wide product range of bleeding-edge financial products, all delivered through smooth and frictionless customer journeys. But then it's so important that all this runs on an agile and scalable tech stack, which my colleague, Elias, will talk about shortly. But before we get into the channels, let's have a short look at what a typical day on the Nordnet platform looks like. So just before the European markets open, we start seeing requests spin up against our API, and they peak at around 20,000 requests per second just before markets open. So you can see they slow down during the day, and we see another spike when the U.S. markets open in the afternoon at 11,000 requests per second. And on a typical day, some 265,000 users log into our app and another 115,000 on our web. They start putting through orders. On a typical day in 2021, they put through 285,000 orders on the platform, 88,000 of which were cross-border for a total traded value of SEK 7.3 billion. And by the time the U.S. closes, over 1,000 new customers have joined Nordnet, and both they and existing customers have added SEK 230 million in net savings to the platform. We paid out SEK 23 million loans and some SEK 120 million of net buys and funds have been made. Almost by any metric, I think you will agree, that's a pretty awesome platform we've built. So how do we take this platform forward? What is the digital channel strategy? What I would argue is that there are really 3 prongs to it. First of all, strategically, I call it vision-based. This is where we want to bring this platform and these channels to our customers in the future. We talk about our web NEXT as the consolidator of key customer segment needs. We talk about our app as a standalone channel in the future to manage your savings. And we will talk about Shareville and how that will form the heart of the user experience. But we also work tactically or outcome based. And this is really down to our teams who own different parts of the customer journey where they look at different outcomes from an OKR perspective and really want to ship feature-complete functionality in both app and web, adding rich data, convenience and delightfulness every single day, like Lars mentioned. And finally, we're very much opportunity-based, we run unplanned innovation. This will come in the form of customer feedback and we work very closely with our customers, both in research groups, but also through all of our social media channels, including Shareville, to garner customer feedback. We work with employee-driven hackathons. It could happen almost at any time, but we have 2 booked hackathons a year. And then we have inspiration, of course, from global and local peers, and we can steal with pride, if we want to. But starting then with our web application, which we internally call NEXT. This platform is entirely designed and developed in-house. Launched in 2019, and we're adding features almost daily. And as Elias will describe, we have the capability of shipping new features 18 times a day during trading hours. Now we call NEXT our financial cockpit because it's perfectly designed for both research, both on the fundamental type and the technical analysis type. It features streaming, real-time prices and order books, customizable tick -- quick bar and a very rich data set for static and dynamic data. Over the last year, almost 40% of customers used only or mainly the web. Like I said, 115,000 daily active users with a DAU/MAU engagement ratio of just over 20%, which is very good for a financial platform. We see the most trades through this platform, 115,000 per day or 43% of daily traded value. So what's the strategy for the web going forward? Besides being a financial cockpit, like I said, we also see NEXT as the consolidator of very key customer segment capabilities. We have this platform that now incorporates all the different needs that different segments may have, starting with our blog. We talk a lot about proprietary content, and we create a lot of proprietary content through all of our investment coaches and savings economists in the 4 countries. And so last year, we incorporated the blog into the web. Shareville, our social investment platform. I'll come back to this, but work is underway of integrating Shareville functionality and the web. Then we have our client manager portal for our partner customers. I'll speak about that this afternoon. But again, we're going to use NEXT as the platform and then overlay the distinct capabilities that our IFAs need. And finally, we have a third-party platform called Infront Web Trader for our traders that Lars-Åke described. And a lot of these features, we will be adding into NEXT for this customer segment. So switching to the app, then. I first like to boast about the Red Dot design award that we just won. It is a very prestigious international award and I couldn't be prouder of the team and the designers and the developers who made that happen. Like I said, the app was entirely designed and developed in-house, and it's seen fantastic development in both features and use since launch. Like the web, it features real-time streaming prices, 5 levels of order book, integrated instant deposits, customizable charts, haptic feedback. And today, over 60% of our customers use only or mainly the app. We currently have 265,000 daily active users with an engagement rate of 38%, which is very, very good, beating out a lot of the sort of household U.K. fintech names, including Hargreaves and Freetrade. All these active users put through 86,000 trades through the app, representing 25% of traded value. But what's really cool with the app is we've really seen in the data how it smoothed out seasonal trading patterns as you can always reach your portfolio, whether you're on a ski lift or in a sailboat. So going forward then, the app strategy is to make the app much more of a stand-alone channel so that customers really can live their financial life in the app. Even so, we also see the use of the app as an extension of NEXT on the go. It's a perfect delivery mechanism for push notifications, price, news alerts trade confirms, et cetera. And of course, the advantage of app as a medium is that native experience, the immediacy, the haptic feedbacks, the delightfulness and the interactions, and also it being a captive environment. I mean, there are no other tabs or windows to divert your attention, and that's why we see the higher engagement rate in the app. So finally, Shareville. Now for those who don't know, Shareville is our very own social investment platform. So as opposed to Twitter or Reddit, Shareville truly has put your money where your mouth is. Everybody can see how you're doing and if you own a stock that you're talking about and how it's performed over time. So we show people other users' portfolios on a [ consensual ] basis if you've opted in. So nobody can see how much money you have, but they can see at what price you bought and sold at. And we assign between 0 and 3 stars based on risk-adjusted returns over time. Shareville really is a fantastic customer acquisition and retention tool. To date, over 300,000 of our customers have shared their accounts on Shareville. Now we can clearly see that customers of Nordnet that are also Shareville users generate 1.8x the traded value and over 2x the commissions compared to customers who are not on Shareville. And we have very exciting plans for Shareville going forward. First of all, why do we have it? And as Lars was describing, we firmly believe that Shareville is at the heart of this mission to democratize savings and investments. It's all about inspiration, education, learning from the best. It's also user-generated content, that holy grail of the modern era, right? So we create a lot of our own content, but here, our users are creating relevant and engaging content. As such, it is a fantastic attraction and engagement tool, like I showed you, but also it really is a unique selling proposition or USP -- in the original sense of that term. There's nothing else like it in our part of the world. So why integrate it? User experience for once. Today, we are diverting our users between our main app and web and the Shareville app and web. That experience is not as good as it could be. There's duplication of functionality. We have instrument pages, news alerts, all these things in 2 places. From an SEO or search engine optimization perspective, it's also less than ideal. There's some 200,000 clicks going in the wrong way currently. And then finally, it's not part of the tech strategy that Elias will describe. It's built on a different platform with a different coding language. So the future, like I said, it's really for Shareville to form the heart of the Nordnet experience. And we see that experience really based around your feed as a user. So we've done very fundamental customer research with some of our very best Shareville users and Shareville ambassadors and done some competitor benchmarking across the world. And we're very excited about this future because we really see that the user's personalized feed or your feed will form the center part of the NEXT and app experience. And that feed will contain social news, there might be a blog about a stock you own, news about a stock you own, you'll get your transaction confirms, splits, dividends, news, what have you, and an endless scroll really helping us to boost that engagement ratio. So that's it for the channels for now. Let me then flip to the second part of our secret sauce, the one-stop shop for savings and investments. And like Lars said, it really is our ambition to be that one-stop shop. We want users who have onboarded to find what they're looking for in terms of products on the platform. And we do want to expand the products offered in each of these categories, but also put ticks in more of these boxes. So within securities brokerage, it's really extending that lead that we have across the Nordics. It's about adding more trading venues, more products and better trading experience, as my colleague Quincy will cover this afternoon. Within funds, we want to become as strong as we are in brokerage. That's also about evening out the distribution of our income, but also about appealing to that ever-important saver customer group that Lars mentioned and my colleague, Gabrielle will talk about that this afternoon. Within pension, we see a step change in growth throughout the Nordic markets, especially of putting ticks in a Danish and Finnish box, and my colleague, Fredrik will describe that in detail. And finally, within our complementary credit products, we want to boost trading power and margin lending. We want to bring our award-winning mortgage to both Norway and to Finland, and my colleague, Jakob will talk about that. And within Shareville, like I said, we want to integrate experience into Nordnet. Now so we have beautiful channels, and they're about to get a lot better. We have cutting-edge financial product and they're about to get a lot better. What about those automated customer journeys? Well, all of these products need to be delivered through a number of automated customer journeys into the channels. We are a digital platform after all. And the process of onboarding and accessing the products really follows roughly 18 customer journeys, divided into 3 journey families, which is also coincidentally how we organize our product and tech teams. So starting with foundation, which is everything you need to become a customer. Discover, which is where you've become inspired to find what you want to invest in. And then finally, execution, which is when you've identified what you want to invest in, how your order is routed and comes back with a confirm. So we're constantly, of course, working on refining and automating these customer journeys. And in this road map, we're focused on 6 of them. They're highlighted here in white on the screen. We just shipped move my savings in Sweden, which is a beautiful and automated flow for moving both your stocks and your funds to Nordnet. And many are going to come during the year. So with that, and to tell you more about the fantastic work we do with the tech stack and with our engineering teams, I'd like to welcome my colleague, Elias, up on stage. Elias? Take it away.

Thank you, Rasmus. Thank you. I will. Hi, everyone. My name is Elias Lindholm, and I'm the Chief Technology Officer at Nordnet. I joined Nordnet in 2019 as Head of Engineering and became CTO last fall. Before joining Nordnet, I spent some years at Avanza, almost 12 actually, working hands-on as an engineer, and I also held different leadership positions during my time at Avanza. So I'm going to cover the next 2 capabilities. The first one, which we called a data-informed organization and the personalized experience. And the common theme here is that we want to increase our leverage from all the data we have available on our platform both about our customers and their use of our services, but also about internal processes and how they are working. And with that data, we want to really aid decision-making and improve our user experience. So starting with decision-making, we have started to rebuild our platform for data, BI and analytics from the ground up on Google's cloud, and our ambition is to create tools and dashboards for all departments and teams across all of Nordnet, so that they will get easy access to the most relevant KPIs and measures for their operations. And with those tools, we really will help all Nordnetters make informed decisions. Further, this also creates a solid foundation for continuous improvements of both our online offering and our internal processes. When everyone can see what's working and what's not working, then everyone can start suggesting improvements and also take actions to improve and we can all see the effects from those actions and iterate until we reach the desired impact. And this will -- if we can make small and large continuous improvements across all of Nordnet, then it will be just a matter of time until we will have this truly amazing platform for savings and investments. The other area where we want to increase our leverage from our data is when it comes to personalizing our customer experience. I think what Spotify does, for instance, with a service like Discover Weekly, which is a highly personalized service, which suggested music tailored to each individual user's personal music taste. Other examples of highly personalized services are the Facebook news feeds or the YouTube video recommendations. We want to bring that kind of experience and applications through the Nordnet platform and start personalizing our user experience. For instance, we want to inspire our customers with investment opportunities based on their individual savings and interests. And we also want to make sure that everything that relates to the Shareville experience is highly relevant and personalized to each individual Shareville user. Once again, the important initiative here is our migration to Google's cloud and the platform for data that we are creating there. That will allow us to personalize larger and larger parts of our online offering. Moving on, the next capability we call the cloud-powered platform. And before I get into the specific initiative here, I want to start by giving you some high-level objectives in our tech strategy. Starting with security, I guess we have all seen the increased amount of media coverage about larger and larger companies becoming victims of different kind of cyber attacks. And of course, as we continue to grow, we will become a more compelling target for attacks. And therefore, a key objective for us is to continuously pick up effective security measures so that our customers' information and assets are well protected on our platform. The second objective in our tech strategy is scalability. We have basically doubled our customer base over the last years, and our ambition is to double it again over the next years. That requires us to be able to quickly scale up new production capacity as we see more and more users on our platform. That in turn, requires that we continuously remove bottlenecks in our platform and make sure that all parts of it scales well. The third objective in our tech strategy, we call data agility. And this ties directly into what we talked about on the previous slide about decision-making and personalization. We have tons of data on our platform. The challenge is that, that data is scattered around in a lot of different systems and data sources. So what we really want to do here is improve our ability to bring all that data into 1 place, which allows us to both do decision-making on all that data and also to build data intense application on a cross-section of that data -- for instance, like personalizing our customer experience. And the final big objective in our tech strategy is speed. We need to continuously innovate around all parts of our online offering. The experience in all our channels, the products we offer and of course, the internal processes who powers this online offering, and that in turn requires us to have the ability to quickly deliver new software. And that in turn, requires us to continuously invest in replacing old and outdated technologies with new ones that is fit for purpose and allows us to run with high speed, low risk and good quality. So there are, of course, a lot of actions we have taken over the last years and we'll continue to take in order to improve security, scalability, data agility and speed. But I would say the one that will have by far the biggest impact is our migration to Google's Cloud. In 2019, we entered into a strategic partnership with Google with a long-term ambition to move our entire online platform to Google's Cloud. And in 2020 and in 2021, we have onboarded our engineers on this platform and trained them, and we have also made a lot of adaptations to both our old platform and our new one to allow larger and larger parts of our online offering to be hosted on Google's cloud. And last year, 35% of all development at Nordnet was on this new platform. And now we are ready to really turn this into our primary platform for development. And with that comes a lot of benefits. And I want to stress 3 of the big benefits of this new platform. First of all, we have a lot of managed services on this platform. Services that are just there and that our development team can start experimenting with immediately and quickly take out to production when they want to. Further, Google takes care of the ongoing maintenance and continuous renewal of those services, which allows us to focus on core business development. And even better, some of those services are very advanced, and we would never be able to create similar capabilities on our own premises. . The second big benefit of this platform is security. Nordnet's [ tech ] Google's Cloud applies what is called Zero Trust, which is a step increase in security compared to what we have on our old platform. And even better, Google has announced that they are going to invest $10 billion over the next 5 years just into strengthening security for the benefit of Nordnet and all our customers. And finally, a final big benefit of this platform is scalability. A platform like Google's Cloud basically offers global scale. We can spin up new production capacity in the matter of minutes or hours compared to the weeks and months it takes us to order new hardware and install it in our own data centers. And with that, we also open up for entirely new ways of working. For instance, if one of our dev teams want to run load or capacity tests, they can quickly spin up a production-like environment, run the necessary load tests against this and then tear it down and we just need to pay for the short period of time that we use that environment. Doing something similar on our old platform is just not feasible. All in all, what this allows us to do is to focus on core business development. And on this platform, we are going to be able to create new products and services that we would never have been able to create on our old platform. And that will really help us accelerate our pace of innovation going forward. Talking about accelerating pace of innovation. The other big contributor to that, of course, is the scale-up of our development department. Last year, we signed 51 new engineers and we plan to have, by the end of this year, 37 development teams, which is basically twice the amount of development teams that we had just 2 years ago. And we see our development teams as our unit of delivery. One more development team typically means that we can run 1 more big initiatives in parallel. And with this scale up in development capacity, we should be able to deliver twice the amount of big business initiatives over the year compared to just 2 years ago. And not only are we growing fast in our engineering department, we are doing so without sacrificing efficiency. Thanks to a lot of automation of recurring engineering tasks, sunsetting and decommissioning of old software, the cloud migration that we have already talked about and also continuous refinements and adjustments in our team structures to make sure that our development teams are as independent as possible, we see improvements almost regardless how we measure engineering productivity and efficiency. For instance, last year, we made more than 7,000 production releases, which as I just say, is amazing considering the size of our engineering department. And another number I want to stress is our release lead time. That has dropped to 29 minutes. The release lead time is the time it takes from a dev team from when they are done developing a new feature for our customers and until that is available for our customers in our production environment. We do that on average in 25 minutes. There are companies who claim to be agile who do this in days and even weeks. And I know that some of the big banks, when they work on their old platforms, it can take months and even quarters for them to get changes out to production. So this is really a core advantage for us and sort of a competitive advantage, at least, when we compare it to the big banks. And I want to end with this slide to just mention our platform's availability. I'm super happy that we managed to increase our availability last year from 99.8% to 99.9%. And although this might not sound like a big increase at first glance, it is actually a 2x improvement when you look at the downtime, which has dropped from almost 500 minutes in 2020 down to just less than 200 minutes last year. And what makes me even more proud about this achievement is the fact that we have done this during a year of record activity. Almost no matter how we measure it, if we can look at the activity on our web, on our app or trade activity, we saw records everywhere last year. So I think what this really shows us is that all the actions that we have taken over the last years to improve our platform's stability has really led to the desired results. And that was it for me. I guess I'll hand it over to you, Johan.

Thank you, Elias. And as for the others, we'll save the questions for later. So stay close to the stage. We've already had a lot of questions already, but just remember that you can just push the Q button on the screen and shoot your questions and we'll pick them up soon. So time now to talk about people, sustainability and compliance and Lars-Åke, please join me again on the stage. The Nordnet people, please enlighten us about that.

Thank you, Johan. So as I said in the beginning, we are really proud of our passionate and talented people. And we also have a very clear people agenda to drive employee satisfaction forward. And it starts that we have this clear purpose, democratizing savings and investments, but also very clear values ingrained in the organization. I'm going to talk about those later. We also have this very clear strategic direction in Nordnet 2025. But even more important, we've shown that we can deliver together as a team and really create fantastic results. We also spend a lot of focus on leadership where we have all the leaders participating in 7-day leadership training last year. Diversity is also a core component, both when it comes to different nationalities, but also gender, of course. And here, we have English as a company language. I think that's an advantage for us to attract also other nationalities to the company. Then, of course, the work model now is going to be very important to have a very flexible work model, mix between working from home and at the office and to get that mix right. And then overall, to secure that we really have a strong employer brand, so we can attract also top talent from the outside. And we want to, of course, see a continued improvement on employee satisfaction, as you see then at the bottom. And our values, they are equally strong as our purpose -- and starting with passion. And we are very passionate as you've already heard about our customers and not least the customer experience. We're also very passionate about our employees. Then simplicity -- that we have easy to use products, but also easy to understand communication. And then lastly, transparency that we tell things how they are, both internally and externally. So not a lot of fine print. We also believe in having a really efficient operating model with clear responsibilities. We have 1 product and tech supporting all countries. And you see the tech part there in this picture is the yellow part. And then we have the product side with the business areas, securities brokers, mutual funds, credits and pension. And also the business areas, they have front to back responsibility, including the operations units. And this allows, of course, to optimize the P&L dimension, the process dimension and not least the risk dimension. But this is a core component also to make Nordnet also efficient going forward. And then at the top, we have the countries that basically take the products out, it's marketing, sales and customer service, around 30 to 50 people per country. And we also have 1 Nordic marketing function to secure that we have 1 brand and 1 look and feel and that Nordnet is perceived equally in all of the local markets. And then, of course, the strong functions and not least control functions where we have very strong risk and compliance function. So with that, Johan, I hand over to you.

Thank you, sir. Time to look at what we're doing when it comes to sustainability and that is actually a topic that I will cover myself. So besides hosting this presentation, I'm also heading up our communications and sustainability team. And on the top right on this slide, you see our Sustainability Manager, Marja Carlsson, [ new ] since November. And on this slide, you also see our sustainability strategy. So we have 3 overall focus areas when it comes to sustainability and each of these 3 areas have 3 more specific initiatives that belong to them. We have also connected our goals to the UN SDGs, the 17 sustainable development goals. The first area in the core is democratized savings and investments. You heard about this before today. That is also the purpose on a higher level with Nordnet. We started out in the '90s as a reaction to that investing stocks was reserved for chosen few. We wanted to change that, and that is the purpose that we carry with us until this day. We'd like to say it is as we are challenging traditional structures and give private savers access to the same information, tools and services as the professionals. We have multiple proof of that in our history, taking stock trading online, building a fund supermarket, increasing flexibility and taking down costs in pension savings, low-cost mortgage and our stock lending programs, to name a couple of examples. We are also very visible in the public debate around savings, always standing on the saver's side. For instance, last year, we took the fight against implementing negative changes when it comes to how much you can save on the ISK, the investment savings account. That is the most popular account type in Sweden. We took the fight against the government, and it was turned out to be a pretty successful one because there are no suggestions now on the table to limit the ISK. They're also right now in the public debate arguing for implementing a central hub for pension savings, a digital portal where all citizens in Sweden can see their occupational pension accounts from various previous employers and also the possibility to transfer between different companies. We'll see how that goes. And our purpose also, of course, says something about our ambition when it comes to products: develop user-friendly and inspirational service for savings and investments. I will come back to that when it comes to the educational and inspirational part in a moment. And our ambition when it comes to sustainable savings is to become the leader in the Nordic region -- also that I will come back to in a minute. Next focus area is equality and diversity. We stand up for and work for a better equality between men and women when it comes to savings and investments. We're trying to promote that with different activities. Likewise, we also have that perspective internally and want a workplace that is characterized by gender equality and diversity. And we also would like to promote a positive development for the generation of tomorrow in the digital direction. So we work with, for instance, teaching young people how to code, arranging education sessions and kid hackathons. And the third focus area is responsible and sustainable business. And the first concrete goal there is practice transparency, compliance and high ethical standard and just shortly about transparency -- that is something of a key value in Nordnet. We always try to be open and honest against each other in the company, and of course, towards media, authorities and the U.S. investors and analysts as well, of course. We think that, that is the key to build trust for us as an organization. We also want to promote physical and mental health through a good working environment and the transparency and honesty is, of course, one component in that. And also, we want to reduce negative impact on the environment and climate. That is, of course, our own footprint, but we have also recently engaged in an external activity as well. I'll come back to that. Our own footprint, by the way, is -- has been reduced for many years. We have a digital business model, and we emit very little carbon dioxide. So when it comes to increase the general knowledge about personal finances, we do a lot -- sorry about that. Yes. We have -- when it comes to focus on education and inspiration, we do a lot. We have the Nordic Stock School in 4 countries. We're something of a content factory. We produce a lot of content in our own channels, the blog, the podcast and the videos. We have -- when it comes to products, the guidance flow, for instance, the monthly savings from zero to hero in 6 easy steps. Shareville, Rasmus covered that, and we also have the golden rules when it comes to investing. And when it comes to sustainable savings, we'd like to say that we are -- want to become the leader in sustainable savings. And that doesn't mean we don't exclude anything. By that we mean instead having the most investment alternatives when it comes to sustainable savings and the tools and information that the customers need to invest sustainably if they would like to do that. And last year, we became the first fund platform in the Nordics region to include information about the EU categories, Article 8 and Article 9. And earlier in the year, we changed the underlying indexes for our 4 international index funds to their sustainability adapted equivalent, which means that our own international index funds are in line now with Article 8. And we have other sustainability features as well, as you can see on the screen here. And the last slide I want to show you here is an initiative we launched on Wednesday this week. It is called the Re:turn Initiatives, and we do that together with our largest owner, Öhman. This is an initiative in order to reduce the negative impact on the climate and our environment. In short, we donate SEK 0.10 per trade on Nordnet's platform during 2022 to organizations that work with trying to solve some of the challenges we have in the area of environment and climate. And then we'll let our customers vote for how we should distribute the money between the 3 organizations that we have chosen per country. And that was that, I think, and before we open up for questions, Lars-Åke will take over again. And this time, I think the topic is compliance, right?

Yes, to end with compliance before Q&A. But this is very, very important for us. As a savings platform, we are in a trust business. We need to earn that trust every day, and we know we can easily lose the trust if we have major incidents. And strong compliance, risk management is the vital part, the key part of G in the governance in ESG. And key for us to manage this is to -- the trust is to manage our risks in a good way. And of course, the Board and executive management, we are overall responsible for the risks. But underneath, we have what we call 3 lines of defense. But the first line is the operating units, and they own the risks -- also own the management of the risks to secure that we handle all the risks in a good way. Then we have the second line, that's risk and compliance, and they control that the first line do what they should and they are very active in that. But they also support first line when they need help. And then we have the third line and that's internal audit, and they report directly to the Board. And the main purpose overall secure that we have the right system set up, both for governance and internal control. Well, we work very actively with this. And not least, we work very actively with the risk management in the operating units at Nordnet. So that was the last on the strategy session, Johan.

Okay. Thanks a lot for that. And now it's time for questions. So I ask Rasmus and Elias to join Lars-Åke on the stage, and you can ask your questions to anyone here, of course, on the stage. And like I said before, just press the Q button on your screen and fire away. So we have already received a lot of questions. I'll start with a couple of them that regards our financial targets. They come from Andreas Hakansson of Danske Bank. When you give your revenue margin target of 45 basis points, you say it's driven by adjusted revenues. What is that adjusted for and what is included? Lars-Åke, can you take that one, please?

Yes. We had one adjustment that was in 2019 when we sold our [indiscernible]. Otherwise, we haven't had any adjustments. It's not likely we will have any. But if there is, we, of course, notify what it is.

Okay. Good. Then a couple of questions from both Danske Bank and from Carnegie about the interest rates in the coming years. What are your assumptions in terms of interest rates in your revenue margin target? Any comment on that, Lars-Åke?

Yes. So we have some increases in there in the modeling we do now. But let's see how the world moves now. It might be higher increases and that's, of course, then a potential upside.

Okay, good. Do you have any guidance on return on equity? Lars-Åke again.

No specific guidance, but we report on it as a KPI in the quarterly reporting. So you can follow it there. But for us, I think with the dividend policy and the other targets, I think that's a good set for us.

Yes. Okay. Again, from Carnegie, Ermin Keric, which countries have most potential to add customers and in which customer categories? Countries -- countries, categories most potential. Rasmus, will you take that one?

I want to take it in the sense, I say stay tuned, Ermin. We're going to do a deep dive into the market. You're going to get the answer to that and more.

All right. Lars-Åke showed the financial targets on one slide. That's a question, have we removed the explicit #1 customer satisfaction target? Or is that still your ambition? Lars-Åke?

No, no. It's clear, as you saw in the strategic part was the key -- one of the key strategic ambitions. It's not a financial target as seen -- so that's why we separate the financial targets and the strategic targets.

Yes. Perfect. So I'll ask the question to Elias now. You talked about the cloud a lot. What is left to move to the cloud. Can you give an overview of that?

Yes. I mean we have -- when we have done our cloud migration, we are prioritizing from the perspective that we want to be able to do as much new business development as possible on this platform. And we have a goal that by the end of -- during 2023 at least 90% of all development at Nordnet should be on our new platform. That being said, there are, of course, a lot of systems of our platforms that need to be migrated. So even after 2023, there will be remaining parts, but the key for us is to be able to do business development on the new platform to a large extent, and that's what we are optimizing for.

Okay. Good. Here's a pretty detailed question. I think to you, Lars-Åke. How is Slide 9 in your presentation different compared to IPO pre-pandemic? And that slide was about customers by different segments. So how has that developed over time?

It hasn't changed that much. But as I said, we want to strengthen the investor segment, but we're already very strong but continue to grow in the saver segment, which is the biggest segment across Nordics -- and -- but not in revenue but in numbers. And I think we have a great potential overall in the saver segment, not the least from the big focus we have on the fund business. Because the fund business is key to unlock savers; they invest basically only in funds.

And we will publish these slides as a PDF on the corporate website after this event. So if you want to, you can download the prospectus and do a side-by-side comparison on that table. It will be there for you.

Transparency, right?

Yes, all about transparency.

Question to you, Rasmus, now about product. Why haven't you launched pension in Finland, number one? Secondly, do you have all the pension accounts you want to offer in Sweden, Norway and Denmark? Or are there any other plans?

Good question. We are going to do a deep dive on pension this afternoon and my colleague, Fredrik, the CEO of the Pension Group within Nordnet, will cover that. But just to give you a small preview, Finland has a different occupational pension market structure. It's all about defined benefit. There's a lot of sort of centrally negotiated pensions. So we're not interested in that. We are interested in bringing an insurance wrapper. So an endowment wrapper to Finland, and Fredrik will cover that. We do not have all the pension account ups we want to have, we want to launch primarily a livrente product in Denmark, which is a huge market opportunity. And again, Fredrik will do actually a case study on livrente this afternoon.

Great. And [indiscernible] also had the same questions about pension, the time line. He also asked about the time line when it comes to mortgage. Can we say something about that in other countries than Sweden, Lars-Åke, Rasmus?

For sure. I mean, we have a fantastic mortgage. It's still the lowest priced mortgage in Sweden at 0.65%. My colleague, Jakob, will cover that this afternoon again. We are underway, I can say, in developing a mortgage for the Norwegian market. So that work is ongoing. And we also want to bring this mortgage to Finland, and that will be after the Norwegian mortgage is launched. So stay tuned, and Jakob will give you more details this afternoon.

Great. And then cross-tech product question. When can Shareville be integrated? Does it all have to be redone as on a different tech stack? That sounds like you, Elias.

I can start and then Rasmus take over. I know that Rasmus is super excited about everything that relates to Shareville. And as he said during his presentation, Shareville has been run on an entirely different platform as the rest of the Nordnet online platform. And what we have invested in over the last I would say, 1.5 years is to move partial Shareville to our new platform on GCP, which enables us to integrate it to a much larger extent than what we have done in the past with our web and app. I guess, Rasmus, maybe you want to cover what it is from a [ customer perspective. I give it to you. ]

So I talked about it a little bit in my remarks earlier, but I think building on what Elias says, once we have a lot of the base services on GCP and that work -- a lot of the ground laying work has been done, we will start to see features show up -- Shareville or social features on NEXT. And actually, 20% are out now -- 20% of users have access to Shareville comments being served off of the GCP solution on the instrument pages. So if you're one of the lucky 20%, you'll see that we're going to ramp that up as we see the data come in. So work is ongoing, and you will see a lot of cool features shipped during 2023.

Great. A lot of great questions and the questions just keep coming in. So fire away guys, press the Q button. I think this is for Rasmus as well. Any risk with personalizing your experience too much, becoming too much of an adviser? I mean, the line between guidance and advice, I guess.

Yes, for sure. That's a great question. And we are very cognizant of that line. And I think in everything we do, we want to stay on the guidance side. We'll tiptoe up to the line between guidance and advice and we'll take a firm step and we do that together with our compliance function. And that's true in a lot of features and flows we shipped, including our guidance flow to set up monthly savings. And the same will be true, of course, of personalization. And we should say we're very respectful of the customer's integrity. It's all about opting in if you want to have this social experience, it's all about opting in if you want to let us use your data in order to come up with personalized information like Elias was describing. And so we definitely want to stay on the side of being an open platform, letting the users decide, but we want to make those choices available to them. We think that's -- where is the line between a fantastic user experience and being personalized marketing? That is a -- it is a continuum, and we always need to make sure we're on the right side of that continuum.

Thank you, Rasmus. And the cloud seem to generate a lot of interest from our viewers that you were talking about, Elias. Is it possible to quantify the cost saving in percentage or in absolute terms from developing a new product in the cloud-based environment compared to before you migrated to it. And you can take the mortgage as -- in Norway, for instance, as an example. Elias, if you can fill in if you want to.

Yes, I can start by giving my view. I mean, what the cloud really gives us is a lot of new capabilities that we need that will be much more expensive to create on our own premises. For instance, when it comes to personalizing which we have recently talked about our customer experience, but also to have this capability both to make sure that our customers' asset and information are secure. I know that my predecessor said that he couldn't understand how companies dare to try to secure their own data centers anymore. I mean, security in the future is in the cloud, and that's one big reason why we have decided to make this move and also scalability. Building that kind of platform which scales as well as the cloud platform is basically -- we can't do it. So that's where I come when we discuss this and maybe Lars-Åke will want to fill in on the cost side.

No, I think it was a good answer. I mean, with scale, we can use tools that's already in Google Cloud instead of developing them ourselves. But then I think the core component is that this automation we're doing in general, I mean it started on the on-prem, now it's moving to the cloud. But looking at the customer journey for mortgage, for example, we've done this extensive work in Sweden, and we can take that automated process when we build a Norwegian mortgage and just change a few things and be up and running. So this automation work is highly important also for scalability -- also when it comes to product development.

Good. And, Elias, are there any risks with working with Google, relying so much on Google? There's a question here that mentioned something called vendor lock in, I don't know if you know what that is, but comment a little bit on the risk of working with Google.

Yes. And of course, there's always a balance. I mean, there's a risk of vendor lock in, which is basically that we will become very dependent on Google and sort of it will be hard for us to negotiate the pricing and so for the services that they provide us. But I mean, with all technologies that we procure, there's always lock in. And it's -- I mean it is too expensive to try to make everything you do vendor neutral. So it isn't something that I'm super concerned about. And I mean a lot of the things that we use on this platform is -- follow standards that is also available on other cloud platforms. So if we would like to transition to maybe Amazon's cloud platform in the future, it is possible, but of course, requires us to do a migration initiative.

Okay, good. Lars-Åke, you touched on the people and the recruitment need we have. How many engineers -- to both of you, Elias and Lars-Åke, how many engineers do you estimate we need to recruit in the upcoming years and how large share of the cost increase that we have communicated today will be related to the recruitment needs we have in tech, Lars-Åke?

I mean we recruit around 50 per year that we did last year. We will do that this year. But about half of that is replacement of people leaving and half of it is increase in staff. And as I said, when I talked about the cost target, cost of growth of 5% per year, around 5% per year, it's -- small part is inflation, but the larger part is product and tech resources, not only tech because we set up this fund company and pension companies, et cetera. So it's some product resources as well.

Exactly on the same topic, how do you view salary inflation for engineers and the war for talent?

I can start. I think -- I mean, I didn't mention that, but I mean we signed 51 engineers last year, and I'm super impressed by the talent acquisition team at Nordnet. They do an amazing job. And it's not just that we have signed 51 engineers. We have signed the 51 engineers with all the right attitudes, mindsets, competence and passion to really fit into our culture. And I think that shows that we have a strong brand, and we are able to attract new talent in a tough market.

Anything you want to add there, Lars-Åke?

Yes. But of course, if inflation spins out of control and salary increases spins out of control, I think that's an issue for everyone in the market. But we don't see that now. But hopefully, Sweden and the Nordics can contain inflation in a good way.

Good. Rasmus, compared to competitors, both in the Nordics, Europe and U.S., would you say that your platform is more or less advanced? And do you see your cloud platform as competitive -- as a competitive advantage when competing for talent? Okay. So it's a twofold question. I'm talking to you, Rasmus. Are we more or less advanced than the rest of the world?

For sure, we're more advanced. For sure. And -- but I don't care about advance as such. I care about the user experience. So we want that delightfulness; we want that fantastic flow. We want people to be engaged in our channels and for sure, we have that. And I think we stand up there with a very, very best in the world not just in financial platforms, I would say, but in a lot of consumer applications and consumer platforms. Of course, we have some very strong competitors, both here locally and some of that we are inspired in looking across the U.S. and the U.K. But I think we can hold our own with any of those, and both on a product and UX perspective, but also on a tech perspective, which I guess is the next part of the question.

Yes. So next part is do you see your cloud platform as a competitive advantage when competing for tech talent?

Yes, for sure. And I mean, it's -- as a former engineer, I mean, it's not fun to work without data technologies. You wouldn't want to be at the forefront. And I'm going to quote one of our engineers recently said that working on [ Nordnet NEXT, ] which is our new platform on Google's Cloud is 100,000 more fun and easy compared to our old platform. I think that describes his emotions.

100,000 times.

100,000 times.

And from an engineer, that's normally...

Very precise.

Okay. Great answer, Elias. I mean, the questions coming, they ask about the same thing, but we do the principle, no questions unasked here. So again, provide a time frame for your cloud migration, Elias.

I mean on a high level, it's the same answer I gave earlier. I mean, we have this ambition that during 2023, we should see 90% of all business development on our new platform. And of course, I think also -- I mean, -- we will have our old platform remaining for many, many years. And I mean it will be less and less important for us, but we don't -- we haven't set the hard deadline for when we want to sort of close down our old platform around all in-house developed components on our cloud.

Good. On the Shareville topic again and this time from a compliance perspective, Rasmus. How do we monitor and manage the content on Shareville? Are there some limits or restrictions in place what people can say? Yes, that's the question.

Yes, it's a very good question. It's, of course, something we're very aware of, and we work proactively, I'd say. And we are fortunate to have a very strong compliance department who works very closely with us, both in the product development side, but also on of course, helping us monitor in the 3 lines of defense that Lars-Åke described. And so I think what makes the huge difference is that users of Shareville are customers of Nordnet, meaning they have gone through full bank onboarding, KYC. We have copies of their IDs or passports. They know we know who they are. We have very strict terms and conditions from a market abuse perspective and a market manipulation perspective. We have lists of people who could be considered experts based on their background or the number of followers. We have moderators monitoring each of the 4 countries for the 4 local languages; we do sample testing. We have a Report This Post function, and we have a Three Strikes And You're Out policy when it comes to anything untoward. And I'd say that makes a huge difference. And also in the tone. I think if you -- there's some pretty sort of harsh tones sometimes in Facebook or on Twitter or on Reddit. We don't see that. Because Shareville is a close knit community, and it is of new niche customers, it's a much friendlier and more collaborative tone. And so we haven't had many incidents at all, but it is something, of course, that we are very much aware of.

Thanks a lot, Rasmus. We have now a couple of questions from Nicolas McBeath at DNB. I'll take them one by one. The first one is about revenues. Your targeted revenues, savings capital of around 45 basis points, is just at the level that you have reported over the past couple of quarters. This ratio has been steadily declining sequentially every year over the past 10 years, except for 2020 due to surge in activity during the pandemic. What makes you confident that revenues to savings capital will stabilize at the current level? Lars-Åke?

I think we're going to have around 45 minutes session on that in the afternoon with Rasmus and his team, but in simple terms, continue with customer growth, the net savings. But of course, the product side is very important that we get the customers that take up more products. And of course, as we launch new products as well.

Good. And then, of course, also from Nicolas. Your 5% cost growth seems low in relation to peers and in light of high customer growth. It will seem like you need to have meaningful cost efficiency measures planned to offset cost pressure from salary inflation, more employees to meet high number of customers. Could you talk about what cost efficiency measures you have planned for the next years?

Yes. I think the main part is all the automation we're doing now with the customer journeys. And that's a win-win. It's a win for us because we save money, but it's also a win for the customer because it works a lot better. And we done the mortgage, we're going to continue with the pension journeys. We're going to move my savings. And we have, I think, it's you showed that.

6 journeys this year, yes.

Yes, and more to come. So that saves a lot of money. And we don't see that we need to onboard a lot of new staff in operating units. Where we onboard more staff is in product and tech today. And then, of course, we worked very extensively also with management -- managing our vendors, both cost of sales by the markets, but also on other costs as well. And we continuously take up a lot of cost there.

Okay, good. Again, from Nicolas, how do you view your desired revenue mix going forward? Approximately 60% of revenues today are transaction related, which is historically high for Nordnet, while historically, Nordnet has had an ambition to increase share of recurring revenues. Are you happy with high dependence on activity or target to drive more recurring revenues in the future?

Yes. Well, I think you're going to see a more balanced growth between the revenue streams in the coming years. I think you saw that already in 2021, where actually fund revenue grow the most, 45%, brokerage was 33% and lending 20%. And I think going forward, we're going to see a very good growth in the lending and the fund portfolios from new customer savings capital, but not least the focus we have on funds now that we really see that, that makes a difference. And on the brokerage side, I think we're going to see slightly less trading per customer, more -- versus historic norms before the big spike in 2020, but that's compensated for by more customers, and then we also have this higher share of cross-border trading of around 30% level due to the country mix.

We'll talk more about the behavior of the newer cohorts after lunch, but one thing we are seeing is that they are doing more investments into funds, which, of course, creates a recurring revenue stream. So it's a mix question. And on the brokerage side, there's also -- there's more mix into cross-border which also generates FX. So there would be a bit of a different growth going forward, we think, which will favor the recurring revenue side. And of course, launching mortgage in Norway and Finland will also add more on the NII line as a recurring revenue stream.

Great. And the last question from Nicolas. I direct that to you, Rasmus, and the topic has been up before. Seems so much focus will be on personalization of the customer experience and increase engagement. Do you see any concerns or conflict with such [ activities ] from an ESG or from an ethical perspective? I mean, can the experience become too customized or customers too active?

Yes, it's a good question. I think like I said in my previous answer, we always need to make sure that we approach that with both dignity and respect of people's integrity. And therefore, I think a lot of those choices need to be in hand of the customers so that they are choosing whether -- how much data they want to share, a; if they want personalized recommendations or personalized flows, b; and c, if they want to engage on our social platform, Shareville, when it's integrated into the web and app. So on those things, I think it's -- we want to make sure that we have the capability and we can offer that experience if it is something you like. If you don't like it, you don't need to worry about it, and you can turn that off. And I think that is really sort of the guiding star for us with this.

Good. A couple of questions coming in about consumer lending as well. So switch to that topic. Do you have any ambitions to grow in consumer lending? I'll take that one first, Lars-Åke, growth ambitions in consumer lending.

You mean unsecured?

Exactly, unsecured.

No. We have around SEK 4 billion in that portfolio today, and that's going to remain rather stable, but we do shift now to have more Nordnet-specific customers versus our own customer base. So leaving a little bit [indiscernible] behind and having a pure Nordnet unsecured product for our customers.

Yes. Question about -- I don't know if you will cover this, this afternoon or we will cover this, this afternoon but you can answer it now if you want to. Resurs is under investigation from the Swedish regulator, how it originates consumer credit loans in Sweden. Is that a risk to Nordnet, and if not, why is it not a risk? Do you want to comment on it now or should we take it to this afternoon?

We can take it.

I think, Jakob, our Chief Credit Officer, can cover that. He will have a slide on the unsecured lending business. But I think already now, we can calm anybody worried about that, that we have a totally different credit granting and credit approval process.

We do the with the KALP because they -- the [ others ] just rely just on credit scoring. We have both KALP and credit scoring.

Yes, we do. We'll come back to that when Jakob is speaking. Can you -- lastly on this topic, Lars-Åke, remind us on the yield on the consumer credit portfolio, please, again, the unsecured part of it?

I think it's around 5%. It's a fairly low-risk portfolio, as you also see in the credit losses, which are low. We try to have it as a low-risk credit portfolio, mainly for our customer base going forward.

Yes. And over to our trading activity. What is your expectations for how trading activity will develop? How is that built into your plans for the future?

I think we also show that in the quarterly reporting, we see more of that trading activity per customer goes down a little bit more to what we saw in period '15 to '19 before we have the high volatility in 2020 and beginning of 2021. So when we model, we model more on the historic levels, but it is, of course, a function of volatility in the markets, but we try to model it more carefully. So if there's more volatility, it's an upside. But again, we have more customers so that compensates, so more trading customers. And then also the cross-border share trading is definitely higher, around 30%.

Good. Question again about the interest rate hikes. I know you have talked about this before, but for potential new viewers. How many rate rises, exactly, are you assuming in the 45 basis points revenue guidance? How is that built into that?

How many? I mean I can't answer exactly how many. But we have modeled hikes, but the way the world is moving right now, it might definitely be an upside to that over time.

Good. Lot of great questions. Actually, the last one that comes here and it's a product question, and it's a pretty straightforward one. When are you opening up for trading in U.K. stocks? Rasmus?

I don't want to promise anything, but we hope to get that up at the end of March or the beginning of April. The teams are working hard with it as we speak.

Good. Looking forward to that. That was actually the last question for now. Thanks a lot all of you who asked questions -- great questions and great answers from you people on the stage. Now it's time for lunch break, and I think we stick to the original time plan. So we start again at -- no?

No, no, no. Market [ deep-dive. ]

No, market [ deep dive. ]

Sorry. Market now. Okay. Yes, yes. Exactly, exactly. So Lars-Åke, it's your turn again and deep dive into our different market. Sorry about that. Sorry about that, Lars-Åke.

It's one market session, no problem. So going to deep dive in the market space, both in regarding our position in the different Nordic markets, but also overall, how the addressable market will develop now in the coming years. Some slides have quite a lot of data points. I'm not going to go through all of those. But as we said, you will have this material then published on our website afterwards. Looking at the Nordic savings market overall, it's very big. It's around SEK 37 trillion, growing around 6% per annum. Our addressable market is 1/3 of that, if you take away some private equity, some pension products and some bond products, but still SEK 13 trillion -- but our market is growing faster because there's more shares and funds at 6% to 8% per year. Then additionally, with opening of the Danish livrente pension product and endowment wrapper in Finland that will enable another expansion of the addressable market with around SEK 3 trillion in 2025. So in 2025, we see an overall addressable market for us around SEK 20 trillion. And then we also know that the digital platforms are significantly outgrowing the market and taking market share. But as we said a number of times now, our market share currently is around 6% of the addressable market, so great growth potential for -- in the coming years. You also know that the digital platforms are taking market share from 8% in '16 to 14% today. and we continue to grow to around 17%. But if you then add the extended market, then it's only around 14%. So again, 4 digital platforms as such is great room to grow. We see that Sweden has the highest penetration today or highest share -- market share of 19%. Then it's Norway, but that's a little bit distorted by Sbanken, that's primarily a deposit lending bank, so they have huge deposits, not that much savings; and then it's Denmark and Finland. And why do then customers choose to onboard on an online digital platform? One is, I think the most important is this one-stop shop experience that you can find everything on the platform also with a fantastic customer experience and overall, of course, an attractive price. And we see also the move -- customer move is from the big banks and pension companies to the online platforms. And in Sweden, our main competitor is Avanza, probably the player in the Nordics that's most like us, most like a full one-stop shop. In Norway, it's -- the competitor is Pareto and Sbanken but Sbanken is mainly digital lending, mortgage, and Pareto is more skewed to heavy trading. In Denmark, it's Saxo Bank. Also here, we have the much broader offering and the Saxo is also a little bit more trading. In Finland, we're virtually the only big digital platform for savings and investments. And we see today by being Pan-Nordic instead of just not just being in Sweden, we have a market that's 2x bigger. So SEK 13 trillion addressable market for us. And if you look at the market share in the different markets, it varies from 5% up to 9%, but on average 6%. And if you look in 2025, then the addressable market has been growing and with extension with livrente and Finnish wrapper to SEK 20 trillion. And you can also see in this picture that being now pan-Nordic gives a market that's 2.5x larger. And especially now Denmark, as you see, is almost equally big as the Swedish market due to the livrente pension market being so big. So now I'm going to go through each of the countries, a little bit highlights. Again, you will have those slides to deep dive on your own. But in Sweden, around 20% of the populations are on digital platforms, so us or Avanza, and -- but looking at us, we have around 30% of the customer base versus Avanza, but we have 45% of the savings capital. So that means our customer base is very high end and also creates a lot of income per customer. We managed to increase the market share from 16% to 21% with 3% -- from 3% to 6%. And to the right, you see also our market share of the addressable market per segment, so shares, funds, deposits and pension. And here, you see a big potential, of course, to move more deposits to shares and funds and of course, overall to grow the fund and pension business for us. And we're also -- really important for us is not just to have plans, but also do what we say. And we presented in the analyst presentation ahead of the IPO, what we plan to do per country and we achieved what we said we were going to do. So in Sweden it was to grow funds, we had tremendous growth in funds, and also grow pension assets. They're up 42% in 2021 versus 2020 and also expand and grow the private banking, which has been a fantastic journey last year. Also, we managed to have a fantastic IPO year also in Sweden. So we're a retail distributor in a number of IPOs, which is good for the customers because they love IPOs, but it's also good for us because it gives revenue. We sharpen our mortgage, lowest interest rates; digitized and also fully digitized occupational pension. But important here, if you look at the numbers at the top there, savings capital per customer and income per customer in Sweden, they are high, highest in the Nordics and also considerably higher than Avanza. So we are strong in the trader and investor segments in Sweden. And of course, you want to also expand more into the savings segment by the focus in funds. You can also see this with the customer CAGR, that's 10%, versus the revenue CAGR is 20%. So customers are using more and more of our products. So focus going forward: Growing in the service segment by this fantastic focus on funds, continued growth in private banking and also then, of course, to continue to focus on the pension market in Sweden and bringing customers both by our own channels, but also with our partners that we use [indiscernible] and Max Matthiessen. That was Sweden. If you look at Norway in short, around 6% of the Norwegian population is on our platform. Interesting point here is only 11% of the population in Norway own shares. And I think here is an upside over time. Also in Norway, we've taken considerable market share from 2% to 7%. And also in Norway, you see very high deposits, so we can shift that to shares and funds. It's an upside, but overall, then grow the fund and pension business as well. Also here, we do what we say: funds up. We launched EPK, own pension account, last year. Around 11,000 customers using that today; SEK 3 billion or close to SEK 4 billion in savings capital and also good growth in private banking. Some other achievements, I mean we are in a super strong position in Norway, now a clear #1 domestic broker. We have the fastest growth in the Norwegian savings account. And as you see also, the customer revenue growth is just fantastic, a 40% CAGR on customer growth, a 40% CAGR on revenue growth. Also strong customer numbers or customer data points overall. Also a high share of cross-border trading, more than double than Sweden. And focus on going forward, we talked about that, to launch a Norwegian mortgage to attract the private banking segment. And overall, I think we have a huge potential in Private Banking in Norway. We are fairly small there compared to the other countries. So we have a way to go, but this private banking mortgage is going to really help. And then, of course, to continue to grow in the fund space, both via EPK, but also all the things we do in our fund offering. Denmark, also 6% population is on our platform, also fantastic growth in market share from 2% to 5%. And here, you see then the pension market that we have, fantastic potential over time, but also we have a low share in funds. So again, here, funds and pension is very important areas for us. Also here, we said we were going to grow funds. We've done that with 75% in one year. We also introduced monthly savings. We launched this Danish savings account in November last year. We already have 50,000 open accounts and 20% market share. And 8 out of 10 accounts opened since we launched it's been on our platform. So great success. And then we have the Danish livrente where we do a prestudy and we're going to talk more about the full livrente product later. But also like in Norway, we've built a fantastic position. We have built a fantastic position in Denmark, awareness, preference growth. I mean we also have a 40% CAGR in customer growth and also revenue growth. And we also introduced actually monthly savings in Denmark, was not that common before. Now a lot of Danes save on a monthly basis, which is a really good way of saving, but it's almost like synonymous to Nordnet. So we are the ones that brought monthly savings to Denmark. Also very good customer data points overall. And you see, especially cross-border trading in Denmark, 51%. So it's clearly the country where you trade most outside of your local exchange. Focus on Denmark, of course, the livrente product, very, very important, but also broaden awareness also among the affluent segment, which are perhaps more resistant to move, but I think we're getting traction in that segment as well, both via marketing, but also that we are going to have new solution products, more allocation like funds in our fund company. And overall, continue to focus on the fund and the fund offering. Finland, last, a little bit more on our platform here, 9%, also great growth in market share from 5% to 9%. And also in I think Finland, upside to move deposits to funds and shares and also here with the endowment wrapper, you see to the right, will also open up a big new market for us. Also here, we have done what we promised to grow the fund business, up 75%, '21 versus '20. And an important area for Finland has been to grow also revenue per customer because revenue per customer in Finland has been lower than the other Nordic countries. And we see a clear growth in revenue per customer in Finland and also that the Finnish customers are taking up more products, not just brokerage but also now on funds and margin lending. And then, of course, then do the prestudy on the Finnish wrapper and try to launch that as soon as possible. Also extremely -- I mean, since we are the platform in Finland we are -- we have a super position in Finland, clearly #1. We also -- this Finnish savings account that was launched in end of 2019, we have 76% market share of that account, which is just astounding. Also here, you see customer growth at around 30%, but you see revenues growing on average 40% per year, and that's due to we also managed to shift up the income per customer in Finland. Also looking in Finland, the trades per customer is fairly low compared to the other countries. So I think there's an upside for us also going forward. Cross-border trade is also on a high level in Finland. So focus in Finland, insurance wrapper, this endowment wrapper. That's also very good for the PB segment. So overall, we're going to focus on PB, but also in the Swedish speaker segment, we have a fully Swedish website and app in Finland, and we're, of course, going to utilize that. And then we're going to launch Finnish mortgage as well also towards the private banking segment. So all in all, we are the #1 Nordic digital savings and investment platform. We have a clear #1 position as you've seen in Finland, Denmark and Norway and a strong #2 in Sweden. And we also have a well-diversified revenue footprint, as you can see as well, and that shifted a little bit over the years. So 2 years back or at the IPO Sweden was bigger. Now the other countries has also been growing. We also see in the chart in the middle that we have the highest customer growth in Denmark, Norway and Finland. And that's also the countries where we have highest margin that you see to the right, and that's due to small cross-border trading in those countries. So they trade locally, but then they trade a lot in Stockholm and the U.S. as well. So that was a quick overview of the markets. But as I said, a lot of data points, so you can study this a little bit also when you get the slides.

Thank you, Lars-Åke. And now it's time for a Q&A about our markets. So just press Q on the screen and send in your questions. Not so many questions have come in this time, but we have a lot of questions just now.

They've questioned out before.

Exactly. But a couple of them anyway, Lars-Åke. So revenue per customer in Finland. Can you elaborate a bit on that? What is the potential?

I think it's a few areas there. One is you saw that the trades per customer in Finland is lower. So of course, if that will increase over time, that will add revenue, but especially where we focus now is to get -- have more Finnish customers using funds but also then our lending products and margin lending today, but it's also going to be the mortgage going forward. But I think we have started out with a big shift upwards in a way, in a good way.

Nice. You also talked about IPOs. The customers loved it. What does the IPO pipeline for 2022 look like compared to 2021?

Yes. So we have visibility until April, give or take. And the absolute amount is about the same, IPOs planned up to April this year compared to last year. I think the most important IPO season is from May, June. So let's see what happens there. We don't know yet, but it's of course, depending a little bit on market, the behavior and volatility.

Yes. Here's a question about growth. What is your view on inorganic growth going forward? I guess that means acquisitions, right? Inorganic growth.

Yes.

What is your view on that?

I mean -- to be clear, our plan is an organic plan. And we have fantastic growth and also critical mass and scalability, as you know, in the plan. But that said, if there is an opportunity, especially in our Nordic footprint, we will look at it. We are good at acquiring companies. We acquired a number of companies. The last one was Sbanken in Norway a few years back. So we know that we can do this in an efficient way and bring new customers to saving capital then directly onto our platform. So for us more is economics. I mean how much do we -- if it's customers and saving capital, how much do we need to pay for it? But of course, if there is an opportunity, we will look at it.

Good. Can you talk a little bit more about your expectations for growth and savings capital per customer per geography going forward in relation to the new financial targets that we presented this morning? So growth and savings capital per customer...

I know -- we don't guide on that specifically, but we will see, I would say, a growth in all the countries. Hopefully a little bit extra upside in Finland.

Yes. Good. Okay. Andreas from Danske again here. Is there a potential to spend more to acquire customers in Denmark, Norway and Finland, now when you do not have any real competition and churn is so low, and the payback of new clients seem to be very quick?

Yes, there -- since we have a very efficient growth and it's mostly pure based, word-of-mouth based, et cetera, we don't really need to spend a lot on marketing. But that said, we have done experimenting last year with adding money in Denmark, for example. And we also spent a little bit more in marketing this year compared to historic trends. But I think it's a balance there as well since we have a very efficient machine, we don't want to jeopardize that too much, but at the same time, of course, we're going to see what we can do with marketing. But then we're also going to be very specific on how much we pay them per customer if we do an effort like that.

Good. Question about competition. Where are you most worried about competition increasing? You can interpret that as like sector or geography or any way you want. Competition.

Yes. But overall, since Sweden is the biggest market in Nordics, other players is normally starting to look here. But I'm not afraid of competition. I think competition is good. And we've always been a challenger ourselves, and we don't mind to be challenged. But of course, we can never lean back. We need to work hard every day to build this best platform for savings and investments. But I think our true differentiator, where we put a lot of focus is this one-stop shop to have everything when it comes to savings and investments on the platform with a great, great user experience. And I think we're really sticking out there and it's a differentiator.

Yes. Okay. So in terms of revenue margin guidance of 45 basis points, can you say something about the trends there on the different 4 markets -- the 45 basis points in relation to the 4 markets?

Yes. I don't go specifically into the trends. But I think we are supported in all markets with customer growth, savings capital growth, but not least that people take up more products. And of course, we are supported in -- outside of Sweden with this high share of cross-border trading, where we have higher margins. So of course, the customer growth in Norway, Denmark and Finland. There's an upside, especially on the brokerage part.

Good. And now the question is going to keep coming in here as we get the pace going. You talked a lot about funds, Lars-Åke, how -- we have different models for fund across the Nordics. How can the Norwegian fund margin hold up so well despite your switch to a platform fee and removal of the retrocessions in Norway?

Yes. I think we managed the transition in a good way and also led the way when it came to pricing in that market. So active fund is 30 bps and passive in 19 bps, but on average at least 25. And also in foreign funds, we have FX, so that adds to the margin as well. So we are close to 30 bps margin, which I think is good, but it's also -- [ we seized and ] we launched that. It's also been popular with the customers. So the growth in the funds overall has been exceptional in Norway the last year.

Good. Thanks, Lars-Åke. We have a couple of questions here that are not being answered. But I think I save these for the afternoon because we have sessions coming up that feed into these questions. And in order for us to keep the schedule as we want to as well. So now it's time for lunch.

Now it's time. You got hope up for everyone before, but...

Sorry about that. We all need something to eat and right now after an intense first 2 hour session. So let's take 30 minutes guys, and we'll see you back at 12:20. Bye-bye for now. [Break]

Welcome back, everyone. I hope you had a nice lunch break. You are attending the Nordnet Capital Markets Day of 2022. The next person up on stage is Rasmus Jarborg, our Chief Product Officer and Deputy CEO. And we will now talk about growth, right?

We will indeed.

That is something you're into on a more personal note as well, correct?

Yes. I'm 6'7''. It's a joke that never gets old.

So you will kick this off first, Rasmus, and then you will have some company say from some talented people from your team, correct?

Yes, I'm very proud to bring my entire business area management team on to stage today and to tell you more about all the exciting things we have in store for you.

Good. So after you all have finished, we'll do a Q&A session that will take something around 45 minutes. So please take it away, Rasmus.

Thank you, Johan. So we're going to spend some time this afternoon taking you through the various growth areas within Nordnet and really tell the story behind the strong sustainable growth that we boast about, which is part of our position of being long-term winners in this space. And really, let me start by taking you through the 6 main revenue growth drivers behind this 40% growth in top line we've seen from 2018 to 2021. So starting with new customer growth, perhaps the most important. So of course, we're always looking to bring on new customers onto the platform in each of our 4 markets. We've seen fantastic development in that over the last few years. Then these new customers as well as existing put new net savings onto the platform, another really important source of revenue growth . And then combined, all these savings, of course, on the platform should be growing. And that is, of course, not just the goal of us, but the goal of our customers. We want to help them achieve a better return. Then we get into products. So of course, product penetration. I'm going to come back to this later. But when we look on new customers on the platform, typically after 24 months on book, they go from 0 to 2.2 products. And really getting our customers up this product penetration curve on upselling and cross-selling is what it's all about to drive revenue. But another important driver, dear to my heart, of course, is new product launches. So not only are we expanding products within our existing product lines, we are bringing new product lines to market and introducing new product lines into countries outside of Sweden that aren't as fully penetrated. And finally, we had a question about this. We have opportunistic M&A. Now this is not something we are planning to do, but it's something we are ready to do should the opportunity arise. And as Lars-Åke said in the Q&A, we have a very strong history, actually, of identifying and acquiring and most importantly, integrating acquisition targets onto the Nordnet platform -- eQ Bank in Finland, Netfonds in Norway, and a number also of smaller customer or asset portfolios, which we can do as bolt-on acquisitions. And here, you can see, and it's really just an extension of the chart that Lars-Åke showed earlier today, how these customer acquisition and savings capital growth has taken off since we launched the new platform at the tail end of 2018 and the beginning of 2019. So both new customers on the platform, but of course, a commensurate increase in savings capital, driven by new savings as well as valuations. Talking about new customers. Let's spend a few minutes on who these new customers are. So to a large degree, the new customers on our platform are younger. As you can see here on the chart top left, they skew younger than our population as a whole, which already is younger than the Nordic populations. We have more women on that platform, which is great for us because women typically have a better return on their investments -- something to think about. And these new customers are also responsible for a staggering 60% of new net savings that were brought on to the platform in 2021. Naturally, they have less money than our existing customers. So the typical pattern is new customers come on with less money, they dilute the average savings capital, but our existing customer base grow their assets, which enhance customer savings per customer. So that's sort of a pattern we're seeing here. But overall, there is growth in that savings capital base. What's really encouraging to us is to look at the patterns of behavior and investment in these 2 new cohorts. So they invest very much like the earlier cohorts, nothing wild here, but encouragingly, a greater proportion in mutual funds, which my colleague, Gabrielle will talk more about shortly. In terms of channel and behavior, we do see that the newer cohorts prefer the app, both onboarding and accessing the platform through the app, but also putting through 55% of trades on the app versus 25% for earlier cohorts. It's very clearly an app generation. There are some differences in cross-border trades and brokerage turnover. And together with the product mix, this leads to a higher revenue margin in newer cohorts: 85 bps for the 2021 cohort versus 79 bps for 2020, versus 45 bps (sic) [ 43 bps ] for the pre-2020 cohorts. Overall, this means that we have embedded growth potential in this customer base. With a very high retention rate of 98%, this younger customer base means we have considerable growth potential. The majority of wealth creation really happens between the ages of 40 and 60 as people have had a good career with salary increases. Their portfolio has performed. Maybe they've sold an apartment or a house or 2. They receive an inheritance. And all this really increases the wealth on the platform. So theoretically, even if we stop customer intake right now, we do have embedded growth potential with all these customers on the platform today. And here, we see what I referred to during the Q&A, the product penetration over time and the savings capital per customer over time. Really encouragingly, the 2 new cohorts have a higher degree of product penetration coming up to the 2-plus level already after half a year. And of course, savings capital is following earlier years. So now really to tell you more about these products, what we've done and how we plan to continue to grow, my management team will take you through our 4 main product lines, starting with Quincy Curry who's our new Head of Securities Brokerage. Welcome, Quincy.

Thank you, Rasmus. As Rasmus mentioned, I'm Quincy Curry, I'm the Head of Securities brokerage at Nordnet. I recently joined Nordnet at the beginning of this year after 2 years in a fintech start-up here in Stockholm and 11 years in equities with Bank of America Merrill Lynch. At Nordnet, we have a fully integrated securities brokerage business. We're #1 in Denmark, Norway and Finland and #2 here in Sweden. We process over SEK 7.3 billion in traded value per day, and we offer over 100,000 exchange-traded products on our platform. Further, we complement that with flexible FX arrangements and margin lending. And our customers experience additional yield with our stock lending programs within their pensions, where we split with our customers the income on stock lending 50-50. We offer electronic trading in 25 venues across 7 countries, and our brokerage desk is open from 8 a.m. to 10:00 p.m., further extending that in additional 5 countries. Customers can invest in over 1,000 ETFs and can experience commission-free trading in over 12,000 ETPs through our Nordnet markets which allows customers to express bullish or bearish views with varying levels of leverage across stocks, indices and sectors. Our IPO business is strong with pan-Nordic reach. And our customers can access all of this through a variety of accounts available in each of the home markets, many of which are tax-efficient wrappers. We've recently reorganized to make sure that we can offer our customers an improved experience and journey. We're bringing a tighter connection between the business, the brokerage desk, trading technology and our operations to ensure a smooth journey for our customers. Over the last few years, we've done a lot of work to improve our platform. We have improved trading functionality on the web and capabilities on the web and in the app. We've included richer market information, improved graphs, real-time prices and market data, improved screeners and we've introduced a persistent order panel on the side of the screen, which makes order entry easier for our customers. Through our connection and partnership with Citi Global Markets, we've improved our offering in our unlisted instruments in Germany, the U.S. and Canada. We are positioned very well to capture the IPO business expansion with cross-border selling. We act as selling agent in Sweden, Denmark and Norway and as issuer agent in Finland. We do not do underwriting. So that makes us a natural partner for many of the banks in the Nordics. And because of our pan-Nordic reach, we can avoid saturation in any one market. We also have an attractive securities lending program through our pensions, which we've improved quite a bit, and we look to improve further. Within the IPO business, we further offer additional products for the management and the employees of issuer companies so that shares and unlisted warrants and long-term incentive programs can be rolled into the pension, making it tax efficient. We've noticed and we can demonstrate that this not only leads to revenue within the deal, but also long-term customer relationships. We've seen significant growth in the securities brokerage business over the last few years. We look to continue that growth by continuously improving our products and service mix. Cross-border transactions are a valuable source in our revenue stream. And we look to improve that for our customers by extending electronic trading to additional European markets, starting with electronic trading in the top names within -- with trading on London Stock Exchange and followed by other names we're trading on Euronext throughout Europe. Our stock lending program, as I mentioned, is a key differentiator for us, and we look to extend that further by including international names within the availability as well as extending the program into retail depot accounts. Our ETPs and ETF business, we'll continue to invest in. And our IPO business will remain a focus, including investments in systems that will enable better facilitation of placements . We continuously look to improve the customer journey. And with that, we will invest in our operations so that we can have better experience for our customers around transfers into Nordnet accounts and around corporate actions and dividends on their holdings. Cryptocurrencies is a topical -- it is topical at the moment. So I'm going to spend a little bit more time talking about our plans there. We've seen a significant increase in interest from our customers around cryptocurrencies and cryptocurrency-related instruments. However, right now, the regulatory environment is still evolving in that space. We've put the focus on educating our customers so that they can understand and are aware of the different types of products and the risks associated with the products in that space. We've revamped and are relaunching our educational websites in each of the countries. Currently, we provide access to crypto-backed ETNs, ETCs that are traded on regulated trading venues. Approximately 1% of our customers hold crypto-related assets, which comprises 0.5% of the savings capital. Last year, we processed over 1 million trades in crypto-related assets with the bulk of that being in bitcoin and Ethereum underliers. We do not currently offer wallets or physical crypto custody or trading. We will continue to monitor that space for further developments. With that, I'd like to invite my colleague, Gabrielle, to take you through mutual funds.

Thank you, Quincy. Hi, everyone. I'm Gabrielle Hagman, and I'm heading the mutual fund business here at Nordnet. I joined last year in April, and there was an effect of creating mutual funds actually as its own business area. Prior to Nordnet, I was at Danske Bank for over 6 years in different roles. And the last one was heading Institutional Banking in Sweden. Prior to that, I was at BlackRock covering the Nordics. And I started my career here in Stockholm at Swedbank Robur. And what a year it has been for the fund business. I am so very proud to stand before you today and present this business area and the growth journey that we are definitely on. I will start with our starting point, where we are today. We have over 2,000 funds on the platform, a wide range between index funds to hedge funds. Our savings capital on the platform is SEK 154 billion and a typical day at Nordnet, we have SEK 118 million in net inflow. We have a fully scalable digital platform today, a family of UCITS-funds co-managed by Nordnet, and a really large opportunity potential within the saver segment and I will come back to that later on. And as I mentioned, mutual funds became its own business area last year, and we consist on 3 legs. We have the platform and we have our Nordnet-branded funds, soon to be our own fund company, and I will come back to that later. And we also have fund operations in mutual funds, and that is since January. And the opportunity to have both back-end to front end within the same team and with the same business area, we have the ability to create an even more smooth customer journey for our customers that invest in funds at Nordnet. 2021 was a really strong year, both in numbers, absolutely, but also when it comes to initiatives. And making mutual funds its own business area, I would say, was absolutely an enabler to make that happen. I'm also happy to share with you that we recently launched something that we call for “Move my savings. And it's an automated transfer customer journey when transferring your savings, funds and securities into Nordnet. If you haven't tried it out, I encourage you to do so, it went from a pretty manual setup to a real smooth customer experience. During 2021, we also sent in the application for our own fund company. And it's a natural step for us. We have seen a real vast interest in Nordnet-branded funds. We actually grew our assets under management during 2021 with over 100%, but not only that, we are also looking into further products for our Nordnet customers that we see an interest in. Our very popular tech fund was launched last year just before summer actually. And we have seen an interest there as well, reaching over SEK 1 billion in assets under management in that product. So we're really, really happy with that launch and more to come. We also spent some time on our monthly savings plans last year, doing it even smoother for our customers and adding some add-on features on there. We ESG aligned our global index fund family, making it Article 8 as an important step in our overall ESG ambition here at Nordnet. And we also did some features on the platform in terms of a new screening tool, adding sustainable data on Article 8 and Article 9. And when doing so, we were actually the first out in the Nordics to do so. Before I go into the plan for 2022 and beyond, I would like to talk some numbers with you. And looking at the chart, you'll see that the majority or actually 60% of the savings capital lies within Sweden today, followed by Norway with 25%. And looking at the growth numbers, it looks good for all the countries. And for natural reasons, due to a lower base, Norway, Denmark and Finland have stronger growth numbers, but in absolute growth numbers, all the countries look, I would say, pretty good. And looking at 2022, we, of course, have big plans. And one of them is launching our own fund company. And what's more interesting for you is not that we're launching a fund company maybe, but what we will do with that. And we have been talking a lot about the saver segment, that, that is an important segment for us at Nordnet. And for mutual funds, that will absolutely be a focus area going forward, not just in terms of products, but also making the platform and the user experience more saver friendly. Product-wise, we will launch a portfolio, a serious portfolios that meets the needs for the help me do it -- do it for me, sorry, customers and an important product that meets the need of rebalancing and finding the adequate risk balance in your portfolio. And this will be packaged in fund-of-funds within the fund company. And to enable an even more investor or saver friendly experience, we are creating what we internally call one flow. And this is about simplifying and helping -- who are help-me-do-it and do-it-for-me customers. Today, you need to be quite investor interested actually to know exactly in how and what and when to invest. It suits you the absolute best. We all have different needs. Coming back to Nordnet-branded funds. An additional part of the rationale of having our own fund company, more than the momentum that I spoke about earlier, it's actually about taking control, taking control of our cost, margin, ESG and more so. A part of that entails to in-source our Nordnet-branded funds that we have today into our own fund company during the year. We will also align -- ESG align our Nordic index funds and making them Article 8 as well. And last but not least, I would like to mention that we are building a new digital order platform during the year. And it's a big project. So you will see numerous releases during the year. This could create a higher level of stability and efficientness (sic) [ efficiency ] in the fund business at Nordnet. And with that, I will hand over to Fredrik. Welcome.

Thanks, Gabrielle. Hi, everyone. My name is Fredrik Ekblom, and I'm the CEO for our Swedish insurance company and also head of our Nordic pension business in the group. I've been at Nordnet for 8 years now. And before that, I spent 17 years at Swedbank as Product Manager and Head of the Investment Offer. Here at Nordnet, we offer wide range of solutions for savings and investments within pension and endowment products in Sweden, Norway and Denmark. This is conducted via our Swedish as well as Norwegian insurance company and also by our local branches in the bank. In Sweden, we offer a full range of pension and endowment products for both private individuals as well as corporate. That includes solutions for occupational pension schemes for corporate, whilst we in Norway and Denmark currently only offer solutions for private individuals. Since the start of our pension business in the group in 2005, they have focused on democratizing savings and investments by giving the savers and investors opportunity to wide investment universe within our product to low fees and also promoted by high digital processes as well as automation. We're also promoting a more efficient process for pension transfers and also arguing that we could benefit from more regulations in the matter. And you might have seen and heard my colleague Frida Bratt talking about this. I want to believe that our work in the matter has contributed to the positive changes in legislations that we've seen so far. At the end of '21, we had SEK 185 billion in pension savings within the group in our 3 Nordic countries, which we are currently operating in. And you know that we have a full one -- fourth one, and I will come back to what we are planning to do within the pension business in Finland as well. We're constantly focusing on improving our customer experience and also adding new products and features to the platform. Last year, we added a number of different products as well as features. And I want to highlight some of those. Looking at the slide, you see that on top, we have mentioned the Norwegian occupational pension business. It's actually a product for pension transfers based upon a new legislation that came into 1st of February last year. This enabled us to compete regarding pension solutions in Norway and customers -- giving the opportunity to transfer pension capital from one insurance company to another. It was actually up and running the very first day possible. And so far, it has been a successful Nordnet with a market share of approximately 22%. Also, we have focused on enhancing our occupational pension offer in Sweden by adding a digital concept for SMEs in Sweden, which has contributed to our continued growth in Swedish occupational pension business. Furthermore, we have also looked into the ability to enhance the process for Swedish as well as Danish pension transfers even further by digitalizing the offer even more. And those 2 markets are, by far, the biggest pension markets within the Nordic area. Also, last but not least, as Quincy touched upon before, we have also expanded our unlisted investment offering within the Swedish endowment product, which adds a unique USP to our IPO offer within the group. To touch upon some numbers, looking at our customer base, all in all, these products, new products, features and so on had contributed to our growth. As of the end of '21, we had 232,000 customers with pension and/or endowment policies in the group with an average of nearly SEK 800,000 in AuM per customer. Also, this has added up to a positive net savings of SEK 18 billion within our Nordic pension business. Although we see a huge business opportunity with cross-selling opportunities looking into the number of 21% of the total Nordnet customers that currently have a pension scheme with us. So hence, we see a huge opportunity to add additional policies to the existing Nordnet customers. With that said, moving forward, even though we've seen a good and sustainable growth, actually strong growth, if I may comment on that, the last couple of years, we still see a huge business opportunity within the pension area. And to start with, one or perhaps the biggest opportunities within the short run, could be adding a Finnish endowment wrapper. And when I say adding a Finnish endowment wrapper, even though we currently see it hard to add occupational pensions in Finland, especially due to the high extent of defined benefits, we do see opportunity to add an endowment product similar to the Swedish as well as the Norwegian solution. And given our experience from the Swedish as well as Nordic -- Norwegian market, we do think that this could be a really good feature and good product for our customers in Finland. Also, we're looking into the possibility as Quincy touched upon before, to add additional features within our existing securities lending program, which already is very appreciated by our customers. Furthermore, we will also enhance the digital process for Swedish as well as Danish pension transfers. And as mentioned before, these are super important market for us when it comes to growth opportunity. Last but not least, we will also look at the possibility to add Danish life insurance company in order to be able to capitalize on the full growth potential in the Danish market. This by adding livrente pension product. With that said, shortly, I think it might be good just to touch upon what is the livrente product. It's a Danish pension product that pays out a monthly amount as long as you live. Approximately 50% of the pension market in Denmark are invested within livrente products. And by adding a life insurance company -- this product can actually only be provided by life insurance company -- we will increase our addressable market with approximately SEK 1.9 trillion. And that is today, with the best of our knowledge, this will grow to an approximately SEK 2.5 trillion at the end of 2025. So you see that this is a huge business opportunity for us. But I think I'll stop there and hand over to my colleague, Jakob. Thanks.

Thank you, Fredrik. Hi, everyone. I'm Jakob Bergfeldt, Chief Credit Officer here at Nordnet, been here for 8 years almost. And before that, I did 15 years at Avanza working with credit risk and treasury, both in first line and second line. I'm here to tell you a little bit more about what we focus on within the credit business area. And our target is to be able to offer relevant products that contribute to the nice savings and investment offerings that my colleagues have told you about. Also, more than 10% of our customers' assets usually are held in cash. So this is a nice way of using selected lending products to set that money into work. We do this by combining innovation, risk consciousness and scalable customer journeys, and that's how we aim for creating a controlled sustainable growth. The portfolio consists of 3 products: the margin lending product that we offer in all geographical markets, the mortgage and unsecured lending business that we're only having on the Swedish market. 2021 was a good year also for the credit business. We ended the year with a growth of about 30% over all products. And we have a volume 24 -- SEK 25.4 billion in total. And this is SEK 25.4 billion -- that is quite capital light to be lending actually. And that is due to the high proportion of high-quality collaterals for a big part of the portfolio, resulting in a return on equity on average about -- above 50% on this book. And some more details regarding the margin lending product. Here, we saw a strong growth during 2021 and grew over 35% overall. And all markets were developing really strong. And we passed SEK 12.4 billion in total margin lending volume. This means that almost half of our lending volume is within this book. This is also the most capital light and profitable credit product of all the ones that we offer, with ROEs in the range of 150% to 200%. We achieved this growth due to a very controlled credit risk management and focus on customer journeys and scalability. And that is how we create a sustainable growth. We offer a wide spectrum of collaterals with over 6,000 instruments on 7 different markets accepted. We combine credit risk management with customer needs and make this into products with automated boosts in customers' potential gearing and also offer automated price discounts for portfolios with really low risk. This makes it possible for us to offer market-leading prices and also a potential gearing up to 10% to customers' equity. And that might seem high, but the average loan to value in the portfolio is just about around 25%. We -- talking about the collaterals, we have a well-diversified collateral portfolio against different instruments with high liquidity, both on individual and aggregated level. And this, in combination with active real-time credit risk management is why we -- is how we achieve the 0% credit losses, which we achieved also during the market volatility post the pandemic, and this is a number that we are really, really proud of. Besides an innovative, scalable offering, both in terms of credit risk management and operational processes, we offer customers a fully digital onboarding process, which we believe is really important. And we also have automated the decisions for these customers. And going forward, we will work on increasing degree of automation to scale even further, both within operational processes and the credit risk management. And now our -- over to our mortgage product, which is also targeting the saving and investment customers, mainly the private banking customers and only on the Swedish market. We see that these customers also have a need for a transparent price model with an attractive price. And we offer automated transparent discount levels based on the savings capital that they have on our platform. If you have over SEK 50 million with us, you get a rate as low as 0.65%, which is actually the lowest list price in Sweden. This is an important tool for us to retain existing capital and also to attract new customers. And as you can see on the chart up to the right, our mortgage customers have more than 21x the savings than a regular customer do. Talking about credit risk for the mortgage. Even though we increased the LTV cap to 60%, the average loan-to-value in this portfolio is around 45%. And not to forget, we also have double collateral in customer savings, leading to a lower credit risk and a more capital light lending than usual mortgages. And this also results in a higher ROE in the range of 20% to 25%, which is above industry standard. Besides the attractive and transparent price model, the customer journey is, of course, important to attract customers to this product. And during last year, we launched our fully digital mortgage process, with a highly scalable underwriting tool. So now we are actually able to pay out a loan the day after we receive the application from the customer. However, most customers are not in that rush. So the average time from application to paid out volume or paid out loan have been reduced from 45 days to 15 days. Now when we have this own process, we are able to look at scaling up the offering on other geographical markets. And we see big business opportunities doing so, both in Norway and in Finland. And we have actually already started to get it up in Norway. We believe that the transparent price model with prenegotiated attractive interest rate levels based on savings capital will be very appreciated on the customers of those markets as well since none of the competitors do that today. And as a complement to these lending products that I've talked about before, we have our unsecured lending business in Sweden. As you can see, down to the left on the chart, our growth within this portfolio has been quite low over the past years, and this is totally in line with our plans. We have no target to achieve high growth or any growth at all within the higher risk segments in the portfolio. And the average interest rate is around 5.5%. During the past years, we have seen no indication of worsened payment capacity or increased credit risk due to the pandemic or any other reasons. But besides focusing on keeping the credit risk on low levels all the time within this portfolio, we also work on improving the customer journey for these customers. And we have also in this product, a fully digitized onboarding process with a really, really high degree of automation. Over 90% of the decisions that come into this process are actually automated. And that is necessary because we need and we are able to get back with a credit decision within 24 hours from the time that we receive an application, usually much faster than that. And that fast, frictionless process is really needed to meet the requirements and needs of these customers. Going forward, we will try to increase the degree of automation even further and also making it easier for customers to move their existing loans to us. And historically, this product have had quite a small overlap with regular Nordic savings customers. We have been working during 2021 and will continue to do to make this product more attractive to Nordnet savings customers. During 2021, we received a mix of 50-50 of our Nordnet-branded loans and the other brand that we sell our loans under what is called [ consumer credit. ] And we are planning this development to continue since we have plans of several new product launches within this area to attract new Nordnet customers. One, what is a very successful example of that is the offering that we have made during 2021 to IPO company staff, where we offer a tailor-made unsecured loan to the company staff as one part of making our IPO offering more attractive. And with that then, I welcome Rasmus back on the stage.

Thank you, Jakob. All right. You now heard from the 4 business area heads about our exciting products in both what they've delivered to date, but also what they will deliver hopefully in the future. With that, let me just complement this by saying everything we're talking about here today, of course, the channels, the products, everything on the platform is for our broad retail offering. But in addition to that, we do have 2 distinct customer offerings. Starting with private banking. Now this is not your traditional PB. This is rather a modern, holistic private banking offer, and it's free for anybody with over SEK 2.5 million in combined savings -- and that's you, your spouse, your occupational pensions. And what you get as a PB customer at Nordnet is preferential commission rates, preferential interest rates, better customer service. We answer the phone in 30 seconds flat, preferential access to IPOs, prior placements and all that stuff. For example, the mortgage that Jakob just described, was developed entirely for this group. And we can really see that, that product does what it says on the tin. It attracts high net-worth individuals to the platform. And for those that are already here, it encourages them to aggregate their holdings onto the platform. We can clearly see that in the data, as can you. Here the average savings capital is around SEK 9 million per head as opposed to around the SEK 400,000 mark. And we've seen a huge increase in asset growth within the PB community at Nordnet of almost 50% over the last year. Another distinct offer is towards our partners. These are IFAs or independent financial advisers. And by offering a platform for these IFAs, we really open up... [Audio Gap]

A session on this growth part and so everyone back on stage and like Rasmus and Quincy in the back and the rest of you guys in the front. That's how we do it.

That's how we do it.

So just fire away with your questions guy, press the Q button and just shoot them to me, and I'll pick them up. I can start with you, Jakob, a question that was answered -- asked before lunch and partially answered by Rasmus, but you are the better person to answer it. Resurs is under investigation from the Swedish regulator regarding how it originates consumer credit loans in Sweden [Foreign Language ] in Swedish. Is this a risk to Nordnet? And if it isn't, why? Jakob?

Well, I have to start with that we are following this, of course, in media, and we don't have more details than what's -- that. But on general, credit assessment is a really, really important tool for us to do in a compliant and well-functioning way. So I would say that regulatory compliance and good governance is one of our top priorities within the credit area. So we are very confident that we are using the right tools to assess the ability to pay back on the loans for all customers. So we are confident for this within this area. Also, I can add that last year was a really, really high focus year. It's always highly regulated, the credit area. But last year, we had 2 new regulations coming up, both the guidelines from EBA on loan origination and risk monitoring and also the new guidelines from the FSA and we have been very diligent in our work implementing this. So I'm very confident that we have all of these places -- these things in place.

Thanks a lot, Jakob. Gabrielle, a question to you. You talked about funds. Question about fund margins. What can be done about the low fund margins in Denmark and in Finland and what does it have to do with? Is it the asset mix? Or is it more competition in these markets?

Well, thank you for the question. And now you pretty much give it away there. It's a product mix. It's -- the answer lies in the product mix. We have a lot of index funds in these countries, but we are looking into that. And as I mentioned before, in our own fund company, we are looking -- launching the solution products that I think will help with that fact. And also looking at Denmark, we have a different business model there, and we also have the different type of funds in -- which is very Denmark typical there. But the answer lies in the product mix, for sure.

Okay. Great. A couple of questions from SEB -- Jacob with SEB. I think I'm going to ask you them, Rasmus, about the customer segments and how they behave. Do younger clients behave differently compared to older customers? And if so, how? I'll start with that one.

Sure. That's a very interesting question. And I think some of that stats will be in the pack, by the way, that we release after this. But generally, what we see is very encouraging. I think when it comes to the fundamental investment style, it's very similar between younger customers and older customers, but also between newer cohorts and existing cohorts. So it's -- like I said in my remarks, the asset mix, it's very similar. It's skewing towards mutual funds, which we think is a good thing, and there's nothing wild in there, really. But in terms of behavior, of course, yes, it's different. They're onboarding in the app, they're accessing us through the app and they're putting their trades or investments through the app. And we also have many, many more sessions and higher than DAU/MAU, which is daily active users divided by monthly active users, engagement rate, meaning they're engaging with their portfolio on a higher level. We've seen a higher asset turnover for the 2021 cohort, not entirely sure what that's about. Of course, the traded amounts, the ticket sizes are smaller because they have less savings capital on the platform. We've seen that in the past and there's nothing unusual. They're going to come up the curve with everybody else. So very encouraging and a very high-quality cohort, including the younger customers.

So that was about age. And on the same topic Jacob also asks about if there's a difference in behavior between new users, people who have used Nordnet for less than a year, and more experienced users? And also do new customers invest more in funds compared to stocks? Is there a difference in investment pattern?

I think I just answered that. So it's the same comments.

Yes. Okay. So on the mortgage side, Jakob, you talked about that. You talked about launching that in Norway. Do you expect the same growth on the Norwegian mortgage as the Swedish one?

Yes. We see a really big demand from these customers. And we think that if we launch it at the same attractive levels with the same setup that we plan to do, we will see a growth, yes, that looks quite much as we had in Sweden.

I can add that final pricing isn't in place, but we have a very firm ambition to have the lowest priced mortgage in Norway.

Yes. Fredrik, couple of questions about pension. Start with this one, how much has the inflow been in the pension operations for occupational pension since the deregulation in Sweden was not there?

Yes. Interesting question. And last year, we saw a positive inflow of approximately SEK 3 billion in Sweden, and that could be compared to roughly SEK 1.4 billion in 2020. So hence, it's quite a significant increase, although we still see even bigger growth potential moving forward.

Yes. And pension and marketing -- will you increase marketing to enlighten investors of the possibility to come to Nordnet? Is that on the horizon for you, Fredrik?

Yes. I mean, everything is of our interest. And I mean, definitely, we will definitely look into all possibilities in expanding our offer even more. So indeed, we don't exclude anything there.

Yes. Another question about pension. Does it still require a lot of manual handling? Filling forms, et cetera. You talked about that in your presentation. I guess.

Yes, it's. Right. It's a super interesting question. And even though we've seen some positive changes, I mean -- perhaps some of you have seen Lars-Ake's comment yesterday arguing that we need a similar transfer hub in Sweden as we've seen implemented in the Norwegian EPK set up last year. So I mean, even though we are digitalizing and automating our processes, we are in the hands of our competitors. So we need a standardized automated process for the Swedish pension transfers.

And actually, one question just came in on the same topic. Sweden is still manual. But how about Norway, is that completely digital now with this new [ trial hub? ]

Yes. Looking at the Norwegian EPK product, it's definitely more or less to nearly 100% automated processes. So indeed Norway and also, perhaps, even though it's not within the question, I could say that even Denmark have a standardized automated transfer process. So we are somewhat behind in Sweden.

And of course, a digital transfer process benefits us as the preeminent player within digital pensions. And we've seen clearly in Norway that of the pension assets moved to the EPK process, we've taken a 20% plus market share, which is the #1 market share of moved volumes. So we stand to gain from digitizing and making it easier for our customers to move their assets to us because we have both the user experience and the products that they want to achieve in their pension savings.

Okay. Quincy, question to you. There's a lot of young people now starting with stocks, and you talked about crypto and that topic as well. You have also a product with high leverage. Is that -- I mean how do you see the responsibility of us offering this product to young people?

That's a very good question. And I think one of the things is, first and foremost for us is making sure that our customer base are well educated and informed when they're making trading decisions. So we have a lot of educational materials on our website. I mentioned that we recently updated and our launching new educational materials around crypto, but we have similar educational pages around other complex products, including products that have leverage embedded within them. In addition to that, we also require that customers are able to demonstrate their knowledge and experience before trading in such products. So we have screeners prior to trading that ensure that the customers understand the risks and they can demonstrate the knowledge of what happens within the products in different market conditions.

Good. On the fund topic, I think directly references you Rasmus, what is your preferred business model for your fund business? The kickback commission model versus the platform fee model. Can you please elaborate a bit on the pros and cons of these 2 models? And secondly, how fast would you be able to transfer to the platform fee model if that was needed?

All right. Well, let me speak to that a bit and then invite Gabrielle to correct any mistakes I may make in my comments. But I think it's interesting because we actually are fielding both these models or even 3 different models currently. So in Norway, we have a clean model with the platform fee. We've had that live since September of 2020. We're about to lower the prices and change them up a bit from first of April this year. In Denmark, we have a separate type of model, where we actually refund retrocession fees based on the amount of retrocessions generated by customer investments. And in Sweden and Finland, we have the traditional retrocession-based model. So we have -- we see both sides of that. When it comes to pros and cons, I mean, it is -- for us, we're almost agnostic. We can run either. But of course, from a customer perspective, which we always have to bear in mind, to a degree, it is simpler with one price. Now we're very clear and transparent on our platform about what we receive in retrocessions. And I think that is the key to this. And as an open architecture platform, we really have no conflict of interest in distributing a higher retrocession fund or a lower one, it's up to the customer. So we don't see that inherent conflict that maybe an adviser does or somebody who has a captive fund business in their big incumbent bank. Even so, we have the technical model in place, we have the financial model in place. Would we get some regulatory guidance here as a clarity -- finally -- from the regulator in Sweden, we could rock and roll with the drop of a hat. Gabrielle?

What's left for me to say? I don't know. But I think one thing to mention and to the one that asked the question, it's a big conversion for the end customer here we're talking about. So Rasmus said, Nordnet is ready but is the retail, all the saver investors ready for that conversion going into like a platform fee model? That will be the big shift, I think, in the market and in the industry. Yes.

Good. Thanks a lot. I will stay on the topic of mutual funds. You talked about the new fund company, Gabrielle, that we're launching in the spring. Will that have an effect on the profitability of our fund business? Any comment on that, Gabrielle?

Well, I can try. I don't want to comment on actual numbers here. But of course, we are looking into what margin and profit this will bring. And for us, it's very evident that the interest in Nordnet funds are -- it's strong. So we are also doing this as a demand from our customer base to look further into Nordnet-branded fund and what we can do around with that and meet the expectations. I don't know, Rasmus, do you have anything to add?

No, I think that more or less covers it.

Yes. Okay.

Quincy, question to you. This was up before, but plans for opening up new markets, for instance, Hong Kong, what about that?

Yes. Well, our plans in the immediate, as I mentioned, are venues through Europe, we -- opening up to -- direct to the Asia has a set of complications which we're looking into in terms of coverage. However, we do currently offer access to our clients through our U.S.-listed instruments that offer -- that have the top names in various markets in Japan, Hong Kong and other parts of Asia, including Australia, through ADR. So customers can get access to those markets via ADR. And we've improved the screeners on our website and in the app -- I believe in the app as well. And so now customers can more easily find the names that they would like to get access to in those regions on our platform.

Thanks a lot, guys. I think that's it for Q&A. Now there are a couple of questions that I have received that we will bring up in the general Q&A at the end of this session. So I will ask you now please to step down from the stage. And thank you again, guys.

And now it's time for some more hardcore financial stuff actually. We will talk about our operating leverage and our capital-light business model. And the right people to do that is, first, our CEO, Lars-Åke; and then our CFO, Lennart Kran. So please take it away, Lars-Åke.

Thank you, Johan. So we're going to deep dive in both operating leverage and also our capital-light business model. Starting with the operating leverage part. You've seen this slide before, fantastic scalability in the business. We have managed to keep the cost flat for 4 years now in absolute terms, in spite of a yearly revenue growth during the same period of 40%. Having the cost margin going from 38 bps down to 17 bps, you see it's a downward trajectory. Initiative-wise, I think we covered some of those as well already. I mean, scalable tech platform that Elias talked about, that's the key, especially the cloud-based platform. And then is the process simplification and automation. And this is probably the most important area. I talked about this. It's a win for the customer, it works better. But it's win for us because we save money. And we're going to automate everything that's possible to automate for smaller things and larger things like the customer journeys. And we see already effects. We, for example, monitor all incoming cases from customers to try to address the pain points. So we see a very clear downward trend on incoming cases per customer. So that means in customer service, we can have a lot more customers on the platform without adding additional resources in customer service. Same we see on the operations side, where we now -- especially the move my pension, transfer of securities, we're going to address corporate actions and other big journeys as well. So that means that we can also have more customers without adding people in operations, and over time, even downscaling the operations part. So this is a very important area that we work very actively with every day. Then is this word-of-mouth customer growth. We have a highly profitable customer growth with low acquisition cost and high lifetime value. So I'm going to cover this specifically in the coming slides. And then is managing third-party spend, everything from the market data cost to transaction costs versus the different trading venues to authentication cost for authentication of self on the app and web, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So we have a long list of initiatives in this area, and we've already saved a lot of money. And we will continue to save money in this area. So a little bit on the customer growth. As you know, we have the savings economists in all countries, and they are very visible. And also here is a win-win because they are really good for our customers. They're on the customer side, they educate about savings and also influence the regulation and also legislation around savings to be more saver-friendly. But it's also a win for us because they drive a fantastic amount of PR for Nordnet and makes Nordnet really visible in the public space. And then we have those fantastic communities as we have as well. We have more than 1 million members in our communities with millions of users, streams and sessions on YouTube; on Facebook; Shareville, we've talked a lot about already; Instagram; LinkedIn; et cetera. And of course, this community is also creating a lot of visibility for Nordnet as such. So if you couple this PR visibility and visibility in the communities with -- that we have now critical mass when it comes to a number of customers in each country, that really allows for a word of mouth-based growth. So if you see it in the bar to the left, around 65% of the customers come up -- come in basically without cost, either that they've typed nordnet.se -- or .fi or .no or .dk -- straight in and become a customer, or that they search some word on Google and get in that way. So only around 35% we actually pay for that search. We pay for words or we pay affiliates. So highly efficient. And at the same time, we have also a very high stickiness on the platform and low churn. Last 3 years, an average 2%. So if you then look at the graph to the right, you see that acquisition cost is low, is around SEK 300 per customer. And then we try to [ throw ] all the costs we can possibly find related to customer acquisition on that number. So we're not trying to be conservative -- on the contrary. But the lifetime value with the low churn and high income per customer, it is around SEK 20,000 per customer. And that gives a lifetime value versus acquisition cost of more than 65 turns, which is really very high for being a digital company. Most digital platforms are happy if they have an LTV to CAC of 4, 5x, and we have 65x. This is, of course, a really important part of a profitable growth for us, that we have a tremendous profitable customer growth. And we also see all the focus on operating leverage and efficiency that also impacts the efficiency measures. Cost to income has been going down a lot the last couple of years, and we are currently at 31%. And of course, with that, also driving the profit margin, this is profit after tax, up to 55%, which is also very strong. This picture we've seen, I mean, all in all, very strong financials. In spite of this high revenue growth of 40% revenue growth on average the last 4 years per year, stable cost. So we are, we say a tech company, but we're definitely a profitable growth tech company, which is important, I think, not the least in this market climate with high interest rates is then driving future profits down. But we generate profit here and now. So with that, Lennart, I hand over to you to talk about the capital light. Over to you.

Thank you very much. One of my favorite topics. But to start to say, yes, in addition to the operating leverage which we have in the business model and the platform, we also have a very capital-light business model. And by that, I would say that, yes, out of those SEK 800 billion about our customer savings capital, only 10% ends up in our balance sheet. The rest, 90%, is in the off-balance part. And that is what we do promote really. That is the business of ours. We are not a regular credit bank. We're not a lending bank. But still, we need to do something with those deposits to do -- because those turn out -- up in our asset side as liquidity. And we also want to support the off-balance part of the business. And that we do, as Jakob already told you about, with the margin lending product, which actually enables our customers to leverage on their assets, which also the mortgage there because the mortgage and the housing is for most people, the greatest, the largest investment that they have. So if we can help them leverage on those, that's a great business for our customers, and it's a good business for us as well. And then we also have this unsecured portfolio of SEK 4 billion, but which we try to hold as stable as such, on a SEK 4 billion level, to say. So the off-balance part, only 10% of all the savings capital is on the balance part. So that's the capital-light part. But it's also with those 10% very important for us to keep down the capital requirement for those. And that is what we do with the margin lending product. It's a risk weight of 10%. In mortgage, we have a risk weight of about 20%, but of course, the unsecured is 75%. But then you look on the liquidity portfolio to [ see the receiver ], that is about 2/3 of the liquidity, which we do not lend. We have to do some return on that as well, of course, but we don't want to take risk. So that one we use as to optimize the capital utilization. But in the present interest rate environment, we do not yield anything. But I heard the questions before here and saying what happens if the interest rates go up. First of all, I think it's important to know that the funding side is deposits. We didn't decrease the deposit interest rate when the interests were going down, so we will not increase it when it goes up either. We'll see when that happens. That is, of course, except for Denmark -- we already charge negative interest rates as the market do as a whole. So what we have here is a potential of SEK 50 billion, full 1% that would have -- just a simple calculation of SEK 500 million external revenue. We don't know how that ends up, but that is what we can see. But also it is important to say is it the underlying interest rate? Or is the credit risk spread that really increases because that matters on the maturity of the investments we do have when we can roll them over to a new part. Then of course, there are also interest rate increase potential in the lending products. But that -- those are due to competition and the market as such and the country side. So we will see where we end up, but there is a potential for it as well as such. The third part is also -- I mean, I said it's a capital-light model, 10% on balance and capital light less -- quite little capital requirement. But that is due to the credit losses that we also see. Margin lending, 0 credit losses in the volatility we saw in fourth quarter of 2020 when the stock exchange decreased in value quite significantly. Mortgages, 0 since we launched the product and SEK 36 million about on a yearly basis on the unsecured portfolio. That has been stable for quite some time, and we see it forwardly as well. And that is also due to, as Lars-Åke already told you about, the low credit risk we [ needed, ] and that is the side of the interest rate, which is about 5% to say. This all leads us up to a very solid capital position, where we have a capital ratio of 21.6%, which is good if you compare it to the requirement that we do have 17.1%. So we have a great buffer on the risk-weighted capital requirement. But also on the non-risk weighted requirement, that's -- leverage ratio, we have a requirement or are supposed to have 3.9% in leverage ratio but we had at year-end, 4.8%. So I said, yes, it's a solid situation. But where do the risks appear in those measurements? And as we can see, yes, we have a capital base of owned funds or whatever you call it, of SEK 3.7 billion. The leverage ratio requires about 3.1 and the capital adequacy risk-adjusted about 3.0. With the leverage ratio, it's not the decrease of equity that we're afraid of, not even the risk-adjusted though, but we are exposed to high and quick increases of deposits because that is what grows our balance sheet and that is the leverage ratio measurement. And at year-end, we were able to take on SEK 46 billion more in deposits without breaching the minimum requirement. And that is on top of the almost SEK 70 billion that we already have in deposits. So it's a significant growth that would be the case if [ we would ] hurt us. And as you can see on this picture on the right side, that has never occurred. It happened that we increased in deposit by SEK 20 billion, SEK 22 billion, SEK 23 billion in a month or in a quarter, and that was during the first period of pandemic, Q1 2020. Since then or even before, nothing has happened. It grows alongside with the customer growth and the equity growth. But also on the capital adequacy, risk weighted, we have a Pillar 1 of SEK 1.3 billion. And SEK 300,000 of those are the operational risk and about SEK 1 billion is the credit risk. But then in addition to that, we also have the Pillar 2 part. That is all due to the liquidity portfolio, where the credit spread risk is the main driver of this one. And we're using standardized models for all our risk-adjusted capital requirements management. We're looking now and seeing if we can do something there and actually reduce it further on. But still, the constraint is not that part. It's the leverage ratio. This capital-light model, which is not like other banks, as I said, that gives us the benefit of yielding 44% on equity. The return on equity is 44% 2021, which is a very, very high figure, especially in the banking world. But that is due, as I said, to the capital-light model. The other thing that this capital-light model also gives us is the possibility to keep that dividend ratio of 70% on a yield base of net saving -- net profit. And still being able to grow the business in plans and according to the financial targets, where we actually go for 15% additional customers every year. I think that states the last part of the day. No, you have some conclusions, Lars-Åke.

I think we're just going to do a -- we'll do a short Q&A on this session, the operating leverage and capital-light before we let Lars-Åke conclude the day. Just a couple of questions have come in. I'll start with this one. On the net interest income part, if 10% of your assets are held in cash and you can use a roughly fixed portion of that as funding for margin lending of some 300 basis points, should we assume that the net interest income at that margin grows in line with the savings capital? You got the question?

Can we have it once more? It was quite a lot of...

Savings capital varies, I use some of the cash that the customer deposit with us as funding for the margin lending at 300 basis points. So does these 300 basis points, the income from that business, does that vary with the size of the savings capital of the customers?

The margin lending is the lending product, let's just say, and has nothing to do with the funding side, we will still have the funding at 0 interest rate.

Yes. But I think the question was if it grows with savings capital, I think it more grows with the customer base. But of course, the asset side is also part of that equation. So it's both important to grow customers and savings capital.

Okay. Thanks a lot. And if you do mortgages in Norway, you spoke about and also Finland, how will that affect our capital level and leverage ratio? If you could cover on that one, Lennart, please?

It will not affect the leverage ratio as such because either it's with the liquidity portfolio on the asset side or it's in the lending portfolio. So that's equivalent to say. And the other question was...

Yes, what was it?

Capital Requirements.

Capital requirements. Yes. Yes, as such, the mortgage portfolio do drive the capital requirement a little higher than the liquidity portfolio. But that is, as I said, we do always use the liquidity portfolio to optimize this one in return of usage of capital. So that is how we...

And we're not constrained on capital requirements, we're not constrained on leverage ratio. And also, we have this double collateral also in Norway on mortgage. So you take the lien on the property, but also collateral on the portfolio for the private banking customers. So it's quite efficient.

Thanks a lot, guys. I think we save the remaining questions until the general Q&A in the end, they are more of a general nature. So what is left here today? Thank you, Lennart.

Thank you very much.

Let's sit down. What is left here today is for Lars-Åke to summarize the day. And after that, we'll have this general Q&A. So please, Lars-Åke, everything we heard in 4 hours, in 5 minutes. Up for that challenge?

Yes. So it's going to be a short summary so we have time for Q&A. But just want to reiterate, again, our key strategic ambitions, starting with the customer side. We want to be the #1 choice for the Nordic savers and investors. We want to have this one-stop shop with a fantastic customer experience and overall attractive pricing. And to achieve this is our brand promise, and building the best platform for savings and investments, that every day launch new features in our app and web. We launched new exciting savings products, and we also automate the customer journeys. And even though we don't have NPS as a financial target because it's not a financial target per se, it's, of course, one of the most important strategic targets to continue then to strengthen the #1 position we have in Finland, Denmark and Norway, and close the gap to Avanza in Sweden, where we have currently a strong #2 position. And with high customer satisfaction, that should also allow for continued low churn and high customer retention on the platform. The employee side, we also talked quite a bit about. We are really proud of our passionate and talented staff. And we want to see a continued upward trend on the employee satisfaction and also that we have a strong and attractive employer brand, so we can also attract and retain top talent. And I think we see that really because like we discussed, we recruited 50 engineers last year. And there's really good people, and they come to Nordnet because they like what we're doing, but also like the platform and the technology and things we're using when we're developing our platform. Sustainable business, we also discussed quite a bit. Trust business, we need to earn that trust every day, has a lot to do about risk management. That we can manage all of our risks and not at least the compliance risks. And that we are a trusted and liked brand. If you are a savings platform, trust is key. And we know it takes time to build trust. So if you, as a customer want to pay -- put most of your savings capital on the platform, you need to be able to trust our platform fully. Then is the profitable growth. Fantastic growth potential in the Nordics. Talked a lot about that. 6% market share of the addressable market. We're also extending the rest of the market then with the Finnish endowment wrapper and also the Danish livrente product. So I think it's a great opportunity for us out there. Costs and operating leverage is going to continue to be a very important focus for us. We want to maintain the scalability. And key part of this is -- then the cloud-based platform. But also that we continue with the automations that we're currently working with. And how we get there? The capabilities we also discussed in more detail from the delightful digital channels, having the best app and web, one-stop shop, true differentiator for us as Nordnet. Automate everything we can, data-informed personalization. We also discussed cloud-based platform. I think we're really onto something great there. I mean this is really going to enable both scalability and security for us. Best-in-class people and the operating model overall, ensuring efficiency. And then -- predicated then on a strong ESG agenda. That's part of our purpose to democratize savings investment, but also then all the focus we put on compliance and risk management. And it also then boils down to a revised medium-term financial targets that we already updated you on with a new target of 15% per annum -- around 15% per annum customer growth, around SEK 450,000 savings capital per customer, around 45 bps in revenue margin and mid-single-digit in growth in costs. Little bit in inflation, but mainly that we add more tech resources to speed up the development and delivery on our road map. And the dividend payout ratio remains 70% of the yielded net profit. So that was, I think, 117 slides summarized in 3 slides. So with this, I -- we open up for questions.

Yes. So now we close today with a general Q&A session. So please welcome up on the stage, again, Rasmus and Lennart. And you can ask about everything we spoke about today, and that is also what has happened in my inbox here. So I have now given up officially on the ambition to try to cluster questions together, so I'll just take them as they come. So you have to be prepared for that, both you and you people in the audience. Okay. Let's go then. Apologies if this already has been asked, but could you shed some light on how you can target a certain amount of savings capital per customer? What are the key drivers for you to maintain the SEK 450,000 in your new financial targets per customer? How will a bear market affect this target? How can you mitigate the effects? And what is your assumption of market performance when you talk about this SEK 450,000 per customer? Lars-Åke?

Yes. So we have an assumption of 5% market growth underlying. The rest comes from net savings. And as we know, we have had great net savings in the last 2 years with around SEK 80 billion per year in '20 and 2021. We don't guide specifically on what net savings we're going to have per year going forward. But of course, we see healthy net savings per customer also going forward. And you have to remember those guidance we gave is over a business period. So the market might be up more than 5% per year or down more than 5% per year. But over time, it will probably even out. And when it comes to bear market, I think we have a very diversified business model now between the revenue streams, lending, funds and brokerage and also between the countries. And we also know if you have lower activity for a period, like we saw in 2008 and also in the tech crash in the beginning of 2000, we know that activity level, even when you have a big slump, comes back pretty quickly.

Okay. Good. Thanks a lot. Question about product and mortgage. More specifically, you have been in the non-Swedish market now for many years. Why hasn't the mortgage offering been offered earlier outside Sweden? What is the reason for that? Is it IT, regulatory or has it been simply a priority issue? Rasmus, can you take that one, please?

Sure. I've only been here 3 odd years, but let me say, it's probably priority. I mean we have an excess liquidity in all 4 of the Nordic currencies, of course. But it's about making sure that we have something that's scalable and that's shippable and that's attractive. And so our focus has been on Sweden, which has been the largest market to date. And now like we told you about, we're moving this mortgage into Norway and then into Finland.

All right. Question about the inorganic growth. I direct that to Lars-Åke. Maybe this question is for owners. But anyway, what is your view on yourself being the opportunity for inorganic growth, i.e., how would you look at the bid?

That's a fully owner question. So...

Yes. No answer? Okay. A couple of questions from Nicolas at DNB. What stock market development have you assumed for savings capital of SEK 450,000? You answered that already. What explains why you expect the savings capital per customer to decline from the January 2022 level? If you comment on the last one, question. Lars-Åke?

Yes. I mean, I think it's mix of a number of new customers coming on versus the savings capital we have for existing customers is that balance.

I think we're assuming also a -- in the modeling, we're assuming a reversion to 2019, 2018 type net savings flow per customer. But of course -- and also we -- right now, we've had a sort of a valuation drop in the markets, which affects that number. But the model is robust enough to absorb any such movements, of course, as Lars said.

Yes. And on new trading venues, we had a couple of questions on that subject during the day. Could you elaborate a bit more on the prospects for adding more trading venues to the platform? How many new equity markets are you targeting to open up for trading in 2022? And what is needed for you to decide to start offering physical crypto wallets? Is it a concern of a regulatory pushback that is holding you back or what is the story about that?

Well, let me take them in order, right? So starting with the trading venues. The one that we have committed to is LSE trading. And like I said earlier, we're hoping to launch at the tail end of Q1 or probably more likely in the beginning of Q2. I really want to lift up and celebrate, if you will, the strategic partnership we have with Citi and Citi Global Markets. So through our E2C platform, we're able to really right click and enable any of the exchanges over to Citi as a member. And this is using the state-of-the-art trading platform that we built. However, it's always a question of both market data cost as well as demand, right? So we need to weigh those things against each other. And we're starting with the LSE because that's where we see the most telephone orders to our brokerage desk, and we know that there's significant demand there. Looking out into Europe, of course, Euronext is attractive. Euronext Paris, looking at some of the other bourses in Europe. And as Quincy mentioned earlier, Asia will be fantastic, but just the time difference, night jobs, transaction monitoring, it does cause some difficulties for us, but not insurmountable. But that's why we're focusing on Europe first. I don't want to commit to more exchanges or how many, but the ambition level is high.

Crypto?

Crypto, everybody's favorite topic. So let's talk some DeFi. No, I think the Quincy's remarks were exactly on point, right? So it's all about as an open platform, giving that access to on-exchange traded crypto-backed assets. I think a physical wallet is a ways off, and we put that on the slide as well. And yes, of course, regulation is part of it, but it's also so far, despite the blockchain encrypting the transaction history, there's a lot of mixers and other things out there -- from an AML and KYC perspective, it's not ideal. And also, there's a total lack of regulatory guidance in this area, and we are talking both to exchanges to NASDAQ, but also to our regulators. And I think we need more clarity and more guidance from -- in the regulation before we were able to take such a step.

Great. Thank you, Rasmus. Question about net interest income from -- also from Nicolas at DNB. Three further questions. Could you comment on what drivers you see impacting your net interest income in the near term? Number one. Could you elaborate a bit on your interest rate sensitivity, which you have stated is around SEK 500 million for 1 percentage point interest rate change? How is that split across currencies? Is the asset break down by currency in the annual report a good indication, according to which 40% comes from Sweden and 20% comes from Norway? So what drivers affect interest income in the near term? And could you elaborate a bit on the rate sensitivity?

I can comment on the net interest income. And of course, it's the development of the treasury portfolio, you can talk about the interest rate sensitivity later. But then it's, of course, the development in our lending products, where we see a strong growth in margin lending growing with the customer base, especially but partly also with the savings capital. And then is the growth in mortgage, both in Sweden, but especially then we're going to launch a mortgage in Norway first and then Finland, while personal loans or unsecured loan portfolio, I think, we're going to remain at around SEK 4 billion level. So you won't see any growth there. So that was in short. But the interest rate sensitivity...

Interest rate, yes. I would say it's split around the currencies that it is reported, except for maybe in Denmark. And that is because the funding from the deposit, we do charge negative interest rates on deposit there. So that will probably increase the funding costs and thereby not being that positive there as it will be in the other countries when interest rates do increase.

But then we have to remember, it's not just the treasury portfolio. I think the treasury portfolio moves first. I think within the 3 months, we have the full effect in the treasury. But then we have the lending portfolio as well that will move over time as well.

Absolutely.

That, of course, we need to look at what other participants in the market are doing. But we know, I mean, if underlying interest rates increase, that the market rates for loans will also increase.

Yes. But that is, as you say, competition and a country market situation that we had turned up at that time.

Good. Thank you. [ Appreciate to start ] with that, Nicolas. Let's change the subject again to livrente product in Denmark. Why are you repeatedly referring to the SEK 1.3 trillion market size for livrente when you show SEK 1.9 trillion as of 2021? I don't know exactly what this refers to, Lars-Åke...

Yes, I think it was from the analyst presentation in 2020. And the new number is SEK 1.9 trillion, and that's also the end of 2021 number. So we've been digging more in detail into this market, so it was slightly bigger than we thought from the beginning. So the new number is SEK 1.9 trillion for 2021. And we also show the growth potential in that up to over SEK 2 trillion 2025.

Great. Good that it was the SEK 1.9 trillion and not the SEK 1.3 trillion that was correct. So a question about customer behavior. Maybe you want to pick this up, Rasmus. Is there a typical level for how much savings capital people want to have on your platform before they start to consume more? So something about the middle size of the savings that people keep with us.

Yes. Yes and no. I think it's very individual. And let me just correct the word -- you saw the word consume, I think what really sets us apart from any consumer platform is that you are investing. So the assets are always you. There's no utility in a stock or fund or what have you. You can't drive around in it, you can't live in it, you can't eat it. You can invest and hope for future valuation increases and a stream of cash flows. So no real difference. Of course, you'll -- with less money, you can make less investments. That's it. But I think the distribution is very similar. And really, it's up to us to, once they're on the platform, to increase the engagement, increase the share of wallet, increase that part of penetration and get a higher savings capital for the customer.

Thank you. Lars-Åke, about the top line, how much can you grow top line with an assumption of a number of new customers -- with our assumption number of new customers? I'm thinking about the young customer base, new products and the growing of savings capital, so I guess the mix of all these factors. How much can we grow top line?

Yes. We don't guide on top line. But of course, if you take our customer growth and savings capital growth and revenue margin, you get some kind of top line effect. But of course, we see a great potential to grow the top line in the coming years, both from savings, customer growth, savings capital growth, the net savings product penetration and also launching new products, and we talked about that.

I think if you look at that chart in the pack and you'll get the PDF afterwards, like we said. You have the age buckets and you have the wealth curve. So if you wanted to try to model out how that would grow, that's a pretty good guide on our future asset levels as the customer base gets older.

And we, of course, have in the model, even if we would stop customer inflow totally now, we know that the customer takes on new -- more products over time. We're going to launch additional products, but we also have this fantastic effect in the savings market that the underlying savings capital is growing then roughly around 5% per year, give or take. So even with a full stop on customer growth, we still have a good growth in business.

Thank you. What about growth in the business? A pretty detailed question actually about consensus versus earnings. 50% growth in customers, 450,000 savings per customers and 45 basis points in margin imply SEK 4 billion of revenues and SEK 2.75 billion in profits in 2023. Your consensus is SEK 2.2 billion in 2023. What is your view of earnings versus expectations? Lars-Åke?

Yes. We -- you see, we don't guide on that. We guide on what the parameters we guided on today. And then, of course, everyone needs to make their own model, consensus as analyst view. But we also have to remember the guidance is over a business cycle as well. So the midterm targets.

Good. Question about securities brokerage and, more specifically, about the ETP business. Avanza recently increased the margin on their derivatives ETP business, enabled by their growth and better terms from the partner. There was actually an article in Dagens Industri where you also were featured Lars-Åke. Does Nordnet already have the best terms for this product? Or is there an upside for you as well?

I actually can comment on that. So I think our indications are that our deals already better, and it's getting even better. So no comments about our competitors' earnings levels, but we have a very good partnership with Nordea around our ETPs. We're happy with the earnings level, but we're always renegotiating, always looking to improve that partnership and product's profitability.

And also worth mentioning here, this is not a product for everyone. We inform a lot about it. You have to take a knowledge test before using it. And we see it's around 2% of our customer base that use this product now and there's more advanced customers. And I think it's a very good product for them. But for a general customer, I think you really need to get informed and test yourself before going into that leverage product.

Of course. Agreed.

Good. And more specifically on the profitability on a certain product, cross-border payments. How sustainable are cross-border payments or FX rates? Do you see any pressure on the 25 basis points you charge? Or is that, in your view, a competitive offering today?

But I think if you look at other FX rates or spreads across platforms, but also in other areas where you buy foreign currency, I think 25 bps is good. But also if you are very -- a customer that trades a lot in foreign currencies, you also can have a manual foreign currency account. You do the exchange yourself and then you have a lower fee. So we have a very -- if you trade a lot, we have a very competitive solution for that segment.

It's 7.5 basis points in Sweden, as an example. So that's quite a bit lower than the 25.

Good. And I think I actually bundle these 2 questions together, it's about the Swedish situation and the competition versus Avanza and the customer growth. It's from Jacob, SEB. The customer growth in Sweden is quite low today, at least compared to our other markets. What do you think is the key reason? And what initiatives are you planning to increase the inflow and improve your product offering? On the same topic, how has the competition between Nordnet and Avanza developed in Sweden? Is the gap flat? And where are you stronger and weaker?

Yes. I mean if you look at the customer inflow in '21 versus 2020, we increased the customer inflow with 35% in Sweden. We also -- total share that comes from the big banks to the platform, we also increased our share there. But as you saw in Sweden also, we are very strong in the high-end segment, the investor segment and the trader segment. Our savings capital per customer is high. Our income per customer is very high. So we're very proud of the customer base they have. And that customer base is driving good revenue growth. But we also said we want to expand more into the savers segment, so monthly savings and funds. And what Gabrielle talked about, the entire focus and effort we do on funds, that's key to unlock that segment. So I'm really happy of the progress in the fund area so far and there's a lot more to come in the coming years.

Good. And -- but on the same note, what are your growth ambitions in terms of market share by 2025? You said we had 6% market share today?

Yes.

We can start with that. How do you want to grow in market share in the Nordics?

Yes. We don't guide on market share, but we, of course, have an ambition to continue to grow market share. We published the market share growth in '21 versus 2020 in quarter 4 report. And we had healthy market share growth in all the markets. And of course, the ambition is that will, of course, continue.

Good. A specific question about private banking. It was you, Rasmus, who talked about that, was it?

Yes.

How many -- if you can comment the private banking in Norway and Finland specifically, how is that developing? And if you can say something about how many clients we have on the offering versus competition?

I think -- only generally, I don't think -- we're not going to comment on the number of customers, PB rated customers, in those 2 markets. I think generally, our offer stands very well. To the self-directed and maybe the more slightly younger but otherwise tech-minted millionaires and billionaires, who tend to choose us because they respect the tech platform and the UX, they don't want a cinnamon bun and a cup of coffee under the chandeliers around the big banks. They want to do this themselves. They want it to be digital, and they want it to be preferential, which it is. So I think it sounds very good. We have many more things in the pipeline for our PB business in all 4 markets, which is the benefit, of course, of being Nordic. But nothing specific for those 2 markets, except, of course, the PB mortgage, which we talked about already, to be launched in both Norway and Finland.

Yes. And also, [ tell her ] not to forget this endowment wrapper, which is also very much towards the PB segment. So that's a key component there.

Yes, correct.

Good. Over to the fund area, 2 questions about that. Does having your own fund company change anything in incentives for you, which funds to push? And be -- having this independent versus the adviser role? And secondly, in which markets have you implemented fund of funds? And what does the road map look like for implementing your own fund of funds? I interpret this question.

Well, a lot to unpack here.

We have time, Rasmus.

I think what having our own fund company is all about is flexibility. It's about being able to control the -- a larger chunk of the value chain, but also by bringing great, exciting product to our customers. We can clearly see our customers love Nordnet-branded funds. There's been a lot of index funds lately, but we have a lot of exciting other funds in the pipeline, including like Gabrielle said, fund of funds and solution products. We don't think that, that's going to impact the way we market funds on our platform. We're very proud of our fund supermarket with over 2,000 UCITS funds on the platform. We are open architecture. We are not interested in providing advice. We're interested in providing guidance. So it's all about flow, it's about helping customers get into the products that are right for them and whether they be Nordnet products or other products, that's up to the end customer.

Good. Thank you, Rasmus. Switch it up again. Tax rates, that's the topic. Best guess for tax rate going forward? Lennart, something about the tax rate. You don't want to get into predictions, of course, but something.

I would say no major changes in the tax regimes in Nordic countries. And I would say it will be quite stable at this level.

Okay. Why are you so negative on the consumer finance? You have no shortage of CET1 capital as leverage is the constraint and margins are very high. Consumer finance, why so negative? There, who wants to pick it up? Lars-Åke, maybe?

Well, we'll say we're not negative on it but it's not a portfolio we want to grow. But like both Jakob and Lars have said, we want to change the mix in the portfolio. And we've actually moved that mix already during 2021. We see this as actually a real job for this loan to do to our own customers. So that's why it gets really interesting. So it's actually maybe counterintuitively very interesting to our PB customer segment as they're often fully invested and sometimes in unlisted assets and need quick money, which we can provide. The other interesting aspect is actually how it's one of several exclusive IPO mandates because we can provide that unsecured funding to employees so they participate in both the IPO itself, but also any warrant programs, for example. And there are a myriad of other use cases, which actually fits well on the platform.

So it's mainly -- I mean, we convert it -- we don't want to have a generic unsecured loans to broader majority. Now we just focus it entirely on our customer base, that's key. And of course, there's a certain amount of demand in our customer base. That's why I think it's going to be rather flat.

And then I don't know who asked that question, but maybe it's right back at you in terms of negativity. We get a lot of feedback from analysts. They don't like this as well. So I think we can take a long, hard to think about that.

Good. Okay. From lending to trading actually. And Rasmus, you were talking about the different channels and the MAU and the DAU. And this is abbreviations...

You got to love the DAU and the MAU.

Here's a specific question for you. Do customers trade the same ticket size in the app as over the web? Or is there a difference in trading pattern?

There is a distinct difference in the trading pattern. So far, much heavier use of the app, but less trades being put through and the trades that are put through are of smaller ticket sizes. I think all the numbers that I gave on those channel slides, which will be available again after the show, we'll make you -- give you the numbers to work the math out and to get those average ticket sizes. But of course, that stands to reason. So sometimes even our more advanced customer segments, they will put in trades on the web, and then they will monitor and they will adjust on the app. But it's rapidly changing. Like I said, the new cohorts are onboarding and engaging almost fully through the app.

Good. About the competition, the type of new competition like Freetrade. Neobrokers like Freetrade, they say that they have cheaper trade execution than both Nordnet and Avanza. Is this true? And if so, what is the difference? They mention being directly integrated to the exchanges. Aren't you directly integrated to the exchanges?

Two ways to answer that. One is we are direct members of the Nordic exchanges. And then everything outside the Nordics, we have that Citi Global Markets partnership I mentioned, which is actually a huge benefit to us able to -- all the markets we can tap into and...

It's also very scalable. The more volume, the less we pay, basically [ per each case ].

And that's true. But for Citi for the primary exchanges, which we are a member, because with higher volumes, we can demand better prices. Of course, Freetrade, been watching them in the U.K. We welcome the competition. They have a different pricing model, and that's up to them and for their customers to see whether they like that. It is free in domestic trading and then you pay a monthly fee, and I think everything on top of that is quite expensive. So it's much of a muchness really. And I guess they still haven't received word on their license and once that comes through, we'll see how that goes. We're not afraid of competition, like Lars said.

And again, I think this one-stop shop part is key. It's a key differentiator for us that we have the width and the breadth of products on the platform, with, of course, a great experience on top of that.

As well as the tax-efficient wrappers, both on the bank side and on the pension side, that will help customers invest effectively from a tax perspective. And then it all comes back to brand. And are you willing to part with your life savings and put them onto a platform you know very little about? And that's why trust comes -- is so important to us.

A couple of questions left, actually. More on the big picture to close this section. You partly answered this, Lars-Åke, but this is phrased in a different way. Do you think Nordnet should be able to, outside Sweden, be the same market size as Avanza plus Nordnet in Sweden? Is that like a realistic scenario for you? Nordnet outside, Sweden...

I'll say -- I mean, that we can grow. Yes -- but I think Sweden is the most mature and most penetrated when it comes to digital platforms. It's around 20% of the population that's on the digital platform today, it's less than half of that in the other countries. I don't see why the other countries wouldn't mature in the same way. So that is also an opportunity for us, of course since Sweden is most mature today, and we have a great opportunity outside of Sweden.

And here comes to a classical question, how are you thinking about going to another country if not as Nordnet, then maybe white labeling some other platform?

Yes. I mean, it's about focus for us. We have 6% market share. We have such a fantastic opportunity here working on this one-stop shop in all countries. So we want to leverage on that at least to midterm. And we also know from experience, it takes a lot of effort to open up a new country. It took us more than 10 years to reach scalability and this trust and like brand outside of Sweden. So it takes -- it's a big investment to open a new country. And...

I think what's really cool with that investment and the time we've had in those markets is that Nordnet is seen as a Norwegian brand in Norway, as a Danish brand in Denmark and as a Finnish brand in Finland. And that's the position -- that takes time. It takes persistence, it takes consistency and it takes quality in the offering that you have. So we've seen some other players go broad into lots of countries, but very shallow in terms of product offering and none of the local adaptations in terms of tax accounts. And that's not, to us, an attractive business model. It's -- you can't just put your website through Google Translate and hope for the best. So no, we're focused on the 4 Nordic countries, like Lars said.

So it's 2:00. So one last question. I think we answered all of them, actually. It's about the incumbent banks competition. Are you seeing increased investment from incumbents in digital products? How worried are you that they might increase their focus and investment level as you are becoming an increasingly meaningful disruptor?

Your question, Rasmus.

Okay. Well, without sounding facetious, or more facetious than usual, I think we've seen some moves by the big banks -- first, there was a couple that dropped their prices below ours. Nothing happened, meaningfully proving our case that it's all about the user experience and the breadth of the products on the platform. Secondly, I know some have made some investments in their app or belatedly added stock trading to their app 15 years after the fact. We've seen no impact of that. Having worked at a big bank, I can say they're good at a lot of things, but we are very, very good at one thing. And so they need to split their resources, their management time, their focus between all these segments and all these products and all these markets. And 1 month in maybe cash management for export companies in Singapore, and they're supposed to focus on retail savings and investments in Sweden or one of the Nordic countries. And that's a tough break for them to do. And even so, even if they were able to put that focus on there, pour that money on it, they are running tech stacks from the '70s in the basement. We're talking mainframe systems. We're talking a lot of middleware. We're talking a lot of adaptation. And nowhere near the shipping velocity and time to market that Elias described earlier. We can shift the entire platform up to 18 times a day during our trading hours. And we can roll forward, roll back, A/B test, canary test, ABC data test, roll back, whatever we want to do. And that's not a capability they have. So speed is really our competitive advantage here. We push a new version of the app every 4.5 days on average. I challenge anybody out there to find an incumbent bank that does that.

Thanks a lot, Rasmus. That's it, I think, for today. Thank you all who presented today. Thank you all who joined us. I hope you really enjoyed our first Capital Markets Day. If you come with any more questions, just send us an e-mail or give us a call, we're here to answer them, of course. The presentation you have seen today will be uploaded to our corporate site, nordnetab.com, this afternoon. So thanks again for today, and bye-bye.