Nordnet AB (publ) (SAVE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the presentation of Nordnet's First Quarter of 2025. My name is Marcus Lindberg. I'm the Head of Investor Relations at Nordnet. With me today, I have our CEO, Lars-Ake Norling; and our CFO, Lennart Kran. Lars-Ake and Lennart will start off by presenting the results, and then we'll have a Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] The presentation itself is available on our corporate website, nordnetab.com. Okay. Let's start the presentation. Lars-Ake, please go ahead.

Thank you, Marcus. We can go to the next slide. So starting with the highlights. So revenue and profit reached record levels during the quarter and especially strong growth in our core business, the fund and brokerage business. We also see the highest customer growth in net savings in 4 years. Market turbulence, of course, drives a lot of trading, but it's also weighed on savings capital. And also that's partly due to a stronger SEK. Lower interest rates drove NII headwinds, partly compensated by higher deposits. OpEx, excluding Germany, was up around 13% due to sequencing of marketing spend and we expect to meet the full year guidance of around 8% growth, excluding Germany. We also launched many nice new features for the more trader segments or high-end segments and more is to come as well. I'm going to cover that on a separate slide. Also a good start of the Danish pension product, Livrente, leading to record net savings in pensions in Denmark in quarter 1, SEK 1.6 billion versus around SEK 900 million in the same quarter last year. And we concluded also the first buyback program of SEK 500 million and applied for another program. Go to next. A little bit of impact from the volatility we've seen now in quarter 1 due to the tariffs. And of course, this led to higher activity and trading and trading -- trades are up 22% year-on-year. But we also see a slowdown in net buying during the quarter and especially in March, where we see -- saw a fairly large outflow from funds. And also we see a rotation from the U.S. to Europe. When it comes to cross-border trading, it's been on elevated level, both in quarter 4 and quarter 1. In quarter 4, everyone want to into the U.S., invest in the U.S. And in quarter 1, everyone wants to rotate away from the U.S., leading to higher share of cross-border trading. We also see then a reduction in savings capital following the strength in SEK, but also negative market performance. But the strength in SEK effect is pretty large. It's SEK 43 billion during the quarter, both impacting, of course, customers' portfolios that they have in dollars and euro, but also since we consolidate in SEK and Nordnet also get an impact from there. Go to next. Some numbers then for the quarter, strong customer growth, 14% up year-on-year. Also good growth in savings capital of 9%, mainly from net savings as markets has been rather flattish year-on-year. Number of trades then up 32% due to high volatility in the markets. Revenue, almost SEK 1.4 billion is a record level. And we see higher revenues from fund and brokerage, but lower revenue from net interest income due to lower rates. Operating expenses up 15% year-on-year, but excluding the Germany is around 30%. But that we are that much higher than last year is mainly due to sequence of marketing spend, where we have more evenly distributed marketing spend this year compared to last year where we were back-end loaded, especially in quarter 4. But like I said, we expect to meet the full year guidance of around 8% cost growth, excluding Germany. And also good growth in profitability, close to SEK 1 billion in profitability, which is also a record for the quarter. Go to next. And we see continued good momentum in growth in customers and net savings. The group customer base of almost 70,000 customers in the quarter and SEK 25 billion in net savings is very good numbers. But we also saw -- even there was a lot of turbulence in March, we saw good customer growth in net savings also in March. Go to next. And we benefit from having a diversified business over 4 Nordic countries, there is a business model and enables growth. And we see good growth in all countries, especially strong customer growth in Denmark. But savings capital in Denmark was flattish and that was mainly due to the big drop in share price of Novo Nordisk. We can go to next. Looking at trading, we see a number of trading customers here to the left. The blue line there is growing in line with the growth of the customer base, but also then boosted in quarter 1 from seasonality and a volatile market. We also see that trades per trading customer is up a little bit also due to volatility and also then cross-border trading that we discussed is also up both in quarter 4 and quarter 1. But this is an effect, I mean, both from a country mix where we have higher share of cross-border trading outside of Sweden in Norway, Finland and Denmark, but then, of course, boosted by volatility. Trade per day also is considerably up. We more than double where we were in 2019. That's also an effect from a growing customer base, we more than double the customer base since '19, but also due to the seasonality and volatility in quarter 1. But also looking at revenue or income per trade is considerably up since '19, almost 60%, and that's the effect of the higher share of cross-border trading due to country mix, but also that the mix between retail versus heavy trade is also more retail in the later years. Looking at the fund business, it's also continued good growth here. We see that fund capital is growing almost twice as much as total savings capital. 1/4 of the fund capital is Nordnet-branded funds, which is mainly index funds and 40%, give or take, of the net buy into funds is going into the Nordic private funds. More than half of the customer base now, more than 1 million customer own funds, and we see activity also customers buying and selling funds is steadily increasing. But of course, we see a drop here in the fund capital due to market decline, but also a stronger SEK. And also net buying for the last few months is a little bit lower, mainly due to lower net buy than in quarter 1 this year. Go to next. Looking a little bit on net interest income, starting here with the deposits. We see the deposits versus savings capital is up from 7% to 8%. And the full deposits are up from SEK 70 billion to almost SEK 79 billion in the quarter, both on strong net savings, dividends, but also considerably lower net buy in the quarter of equities and funds that we normally compared to what we normally see. Go to next. So looking a little bit on the snapshots here for the different components of NII. We start with liquidity portfolio snapshot then, SEK 1.5 billion, and that assumes then the volumes we had in quarter 1 and also currency allocation credit spreads and market consensus estimates for the 3-month IBOR interest rates. But we see here that the liquidity portfolio is up almost SEK 10 billion in the quarter, and that's mainly from deposits. But on the other hand, we see the interest rates also now is lower than we saw in quarter 4 due to expected impact on the economy from tariffs. So next, I look at the loan portfolio snapshot for 2025 is estimated to yield SEK 1.1 billion, assuming then the quarter 1 volumes and interest rates as per 1st of April and the interest rate deposit that we saw on the previous page with the pass-through of margin lending of 50% mortgage 100%. And here we see a slight drop in the margin lending volumes in the quarter is mainly due to a stronger SEK and we consolidated the margin lending from Norway, Denmark, Finland into SEK impacting that. Of course, the main sensitivity here is a growth on margin lending volume, but likely if the market come down a little bit, we will see continued growth in margin lending. Also low-risk lending portfolio in general with loan-to-value of around 40% for both margin lending and mortgage. And in spite of this heavy turbulence, we haven't seen any credit losses on margin lending. Go to next. And deposit interest cost snapshot is estimated to be around SEK 400 million in 2025 and assuming 2025 volumes and 100% pass through of the IBOR changes. And here, the main sensitivity is, of course, the amount or capital on the savings accounts. But that's likely to decrease over time when interest rate decrease, then the customers keep the money on the trading accounts instead. And we've already seen that starting to take effect here in the last quarters. Go to next. So in summary, we're looking at the revenues, I mean, resilient revenues bolstered by our diversified revenue streams and we see good growth in all revenue streams, both net interest income and the fund business and also the brokerage business. And looking down to -- in the graph to the right, we see also a little bit uptick in margin on trading, that's due to higher share of cross-border trading and also that the retail versus heavy traders is favorable mix. Also a little bit higher fund margin due to buy and sell of nondomestic funds. Go to next. So all in all, if you boil everything down to numbers, we have, as you see, a very strong revenue growth since '19, around 30% per year. Increased revenue from around NOK 1.5 billion to over NOK 5 billion now in 2025, last 12 months, while cost growth is fairly limited around 6%. So it's a true position of profitable growth where most of the top line growth ends up on the bottom line. We also -- one of the main focus areas for us this year is to launch new features and functions for the high-end segment. So customers trading a bit more. And we have launched, as you know, the analyst recommendations and price targets in quarter 4 last year and it's been very popular with more than 60 million views and 500,000 unique users in quarter 1. So it's very well received feature. We also during the quarter launched algorithmic order executions with VWAP, TWAP, but also you can access full liquidity through all the dark pools. Also very good take-up and reception of that service. And just before Easter, we lost also U.S. pre market trading from 1:00. So you can start trading U.S. equity already from 1:00 on our platform. But we don't stop here. It's more to come. During the quarter, we're going to launch FX accounts on ISK and KF. We're also going to launch additional markets for electronic trading in Europe and I think that is a big interest in Europe now with the shift from U.S. to Europe. And we're also going to launch a rich company data, both historic data and forward-looking data and historic data we actually launched today. So with that, I hand over to you, Lennart.

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. We can go to the next slide. And as expected, I would say, all in according to plan. We still have a very strong capital situation. Also the liquidity situation is very good, where the leverage ratio is the constraining part. And that has, of course, decreased a little bit due to the increase of deposit, but it's still on a solid level with 5.4% with a requirement of 3.5%. So it's a very good situation we have here, which enable us to continue the dividend policy that we have, paying out 70% of the net earnings and also adding a new program whenever it is approved by the SFSA of share buyback of shares for this year as well or it is planned to be in line with last year. So that is where about we are. But as a summary, very good and strong capital and liquidity situation gives us a lot of flexibility to do work with. Thank you.

Thank you, Lennart. A little bit on the strategic focus. As you know, we can go to next, we have 4 main strategic focus areas, starting with, of course, with the customer side, where we want to have the most satisfied customers. We want to be a one-stop shop for savings and investments with a really good customer experience. But we also know to have happy customers, you need really passionate and talented staff in order to see a upward trend on employee satisfaction and also that we can attract and retain top talent and sustainable business, we are in a trust business. We need to earn that trust every day and especially we need to manage our risks in a good way and overall secure that we are a trusted and like brand. And the last area is profitable growth to continue then to capture the Nordic growth potential and now in next year also launched Germany, but will continue to take market share in a growing savings market, but at the same time, focus on scalability and cost control to have a scalable business model also going forward. And we're very happy with the -- if you look at the customer growth and savings capital growth over the years, which is very strong. And customer growth and savings capital growth is the main driver for revenue growth for us. The customers sign up, they like what they see. They transfer money from the existing banks and pension companies and start using our products. So that's the engine that drives the revenue growth for us. Go to next. We are taking market share in a growing savings market, but still very fairly low levels. We have ample room to grow in the Nordics for many years. And on top of that, we have Germany as an option. We have now 8% of the Nordic population on our platform. We have 7% of the addressable savings capital on the platform and addressable market is with Livrente and that is not big. It's around SEK 18 trillion in 2024. And we take market share. Last year, we have 6% market share. So we gained 1% market share in 1 year. And we know that the market will also continue to grow with the underlying market growth. And we have highest -- if you look to the right, highest market share in equities, low market shares in funds and pension, but we put a lot of effort, as you know, on those areas, and we also see steady and nice growth in both fund and pension business. And also proud of our scalable business model and cost control. We have -- in '19, we had 900,000 customers. Now we have 2.1 million customers. And in spite of that, cost has not grown that much. A little bit step up in 2024, but that's due to additional marketing of SEK 55 million during 2024 to drive additional brand awareness in our different countries. And the initiatives, I mean, we really benefit to have a scalable cloud-powered tech platform that we work with automation, which is a win-win, works better for customer and we scale better, but also that we really have an efficient customer growth. It's mainly based on word of mouth and PR, so low acquisition cost. Go to next. Looking at the -- where we are versus the midterm financial target, we are in line. So customer growth 14% versus guidance of 13% to 15%. Savings capital close to the SEK 500,000 level. It was a little bit down in quarter 1 due to dropdown in the markets. Income in relation to savings capital is higher than the 4, 5 bps guided on due to a higher trading activity, but also higher deposit levels. And cost is even if it was a little bit higher in quarter 1 versus last year, we expect to meet the full year guidance of 8% growth per year, excluding Germany. Go to next. Looking at the key priorities for 2025, of course, to lay the groundwork for launch of Nordnet Germany is both to establish a branch in Germany, also do the needed development of the platform, but of course, also recruit the German team. And here, we're really happy to announce our new country manager that's going to start on May 1, and that's Markus Pertlwieser. And he has a broad background for the financial industry in Germany, both being with McKinsey, also working at Deutsche Bank, both as a CEO for the bank branches, but also as a Chief Digital Officer and also being with a smaller digital start-up working with financial services to the small and medium-size enterprises, named Penta. So really, really good experience and also really happy that he can start already on May 1. We're also going to, of course, continue to realize potential in the new Livrente product and also continue the strong net flows in the fund and the pension business. And we're going to have also enhance the high-end offering for private banking and active trading customers that we talked about. So many launches already done, but also many exciting things coming in the coming quarters. We're going to continue with the pan-Nordic rollout of the new brand campaign to drive brand awareness. And in 2023, we spent SEK 45 million on marketing. Last year, we spent SEK 100 million. And this year, we spent the full SEK 125 million that we announced before. But of course, to continue to focus on underlying cost control and ensure that we also have a scalable business going forward. So with that, I hand over to you, Marcus.

Thank you. Great. So let's start the Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] So the first question comes from Jacob Hesslevik at SEB.

On Slide 10, historically speaking, what has happened with the dividends your client has received? I would assume it's usually reinvested in the following quarter? Or do you have any other specific theories what usually occurs?

No, but it's normally reinvested, you're correct. Of course, a little bit higher uncertainty this quarter leading to less net buy. So let's see how the next quarter plays out -- not quite sure the uncertainty persists or not. But normally, it's reinvested in the market.

Okay. That's clear. But then if forward margin has come down since Q4 and we assume clients reinvest the dividend, wouldn't that mean you would have to decrease your full year NII guidance already in Q2?

No. But I mean the deposits growth is also a function of the net savings, which, of course, continue on a good basis and was very strong in quarter 1. You mean -- sorry and you mean the forward rates, but the forward rates that we use with the volume on deposits is what you see as a snapshot. We've taken the latest forward rates. So I think it was yesterday's rates that we have in the pack.

Yes. So if we assume rates are stable and then you just take a snapshot of deposit volumes in Q2 and then that's how you get your full year guidance, right?

Yes. So the volume we have in quarter -- end of quarter 1, but with the interest rates pass, that's consensus pass for the rest of the year. And those are absolutely, I think, there from yesterday, actually.

Yes. And also and we can expect dividends to continue. Q2 is a pretty heavy dividend quarter. Last year, there was about SEK 9 billion of dividends coming in.

Yes, sure. That's a good point. And then finally, net savings per month on Page 5. Does this not include dividend that your client has received, right? And it's only inflows from banks?

Only from -- only from pension companies, yes, nothing else.

And is there anything specific in the March numbers because it looks quite high when we go back in history as well. Is it broad-based? Or is it specific to few private banking clients?

Yes, it was a little bit private banking effect in Sweden. As you know, some quarters, it could be negative movements and some quarters positive movements and this quarter was really positive movement. So we're happy about that. But the underlying retail and underlying PB growth of net savings is good, but was a little bit extra boosted by some PB customers in Sweden.

Next question comes from Nicolas McBeath from DNB.

So I'd like to follow-up a bit on the net savings. So I think it's interesting to see the country split for customers and net inflows in the quarter and in particular, looking at Sweden because what we can see there is that the number of customers is more or less flat year-on-year, but you've seen a significant improvement in net savings, and that accounts for the increase in total net savings for the entire group year-on-year. So is there anything more you can add there on the net savings figure for Sweden in particular, given that customer growth in Sweden doesn't look to be all that significant at this point? Is it -- have you gained any particular volumes from some competitors? Is it the marketing efforts that are starting to give a positive boost or anything more you can add there, please?

Yes. When looking at customer growth, it was flat due to the sale of the private banking -- private loan business, sorry, too if you recall now. But except for that, it grows around 6%. So it's not totally flat. But the net inflows, and I think we see both from retail and PB in Sweden, good inflows. But like I said, it was a little bit extra boosted from some bigger private bank customers in the quarter in Sweden.

All right. And then as you mentioned, your leverage ratio went down a bit quarter-on-quarter because of the deposit inflows, but it's still at a very healthy levels. Do you see any potential to accelerate buybacks given where you are in terms of capital that you're still some above where you're looking to be? And I can't really see how you're going to go down to your target level unless you increase the buyback pace unless something dramatically happen, of course, if you see significantly larger deposits or something. But just given the current operating trends, it seems like you're still substantially overcapitalized.

Do you want to answer that, Lennart?

Yes, I can say, yes, of course, we are overcapitalized, but we also set the plan, and that is the one we stick to. And the plan is to be in line with our targets of the leverage ratio of 4.0 to 4.5 at the end of 2026. So this is just a cautious plan to be aware that, yes, we can have increase in deposits quite significant, but we can handle them over time. So this is according to plan and also not to disturb the stock market too much with the buybacks as well.

And we also, as you know, have an AT1 that's due in 2026, end of 2026. So we need to have optionality around that one as well.

Yes.

Sure. And then finally, on your currency revenues. First of all, it seems like the currency revenues increased more than the actual number of the cross-border trade. So is that a consequence of larger trades or anything in particular there that accounts for the large increase in currency revenues? And then secondly, related to that, do you see any implications from -- for your currency revenues from the launch of FX accounts on [ ESCO ] and the capital recycling, as you mentioned earlier on the call, Lars-Ake?

The specific margin, I don't have exact numbers, but it can be related to that the traded value is a little bit higher or value per trade is a little bit higher, but I think Marcus can come back with that. When it comes to the FX accounts, we will launch them during quarter 2. So -- but we don't expect any big decrease. It might be that we can attract customers back that are not trading foreign shares with us because we don't have FX accounts.

Next question comes from Ermin at Carnegie.

So my first question would just be on Q2. Can you give us any color on how clients have acted now in the start of the quarter? Kind of is it still high activity? Or has it been an initial sell-off and then reduced activity? And that goes both for, I mean, trading, but also customer intake, capital inflows. Can you give us any kind of flavor on that?

Yes. But as you know, the first couple of weeks were very volatile still, driving, of course, activity. But then after that, we have an Easter that destroys the picture a little bit. So I think you will see the full picture when we announce the monthly numbers in the beginning of May, but so a combination both of Easter and high activity in the beginning.

Okay. Fair enough. Then the launch of the algo trading, I suppose you're charging a little bit extra for versus use dark pools, et cetera. Do you expect the take-up there to be big enough to have any impact on the commission rates on a group level over time?

It's, of course, hard to tell, but I think it's off to a good start anyway. And hopefully, we can attract also customers and trading that we haven't seen before on the platform. So let's see how it plays out, but it was a good start, I would say, of the service, it's very appreciated by the customers.

And then the last question would be on the platform outage you had in mid-February. Have you had any kind of feedback from authorities on that? I know you're right that you haven't had any kind of final verdict, but if you can share?

No feedback so far. But as you know, we reported incident both to EMA and the FSA.

Next question comes from Martin Ekstedt at Handelsbanken. Martin, can you hear us? Yes, I see that you are unmuted. All right. Well, let's come back to Martin. Let's then go to Enrico Bolzoni from JPMorgan.

So first question, given the current macroeconomic context, can you just give us some color on what have been your thoughts in terms of, for example, marketing spend over the last few weeks? Have you -- is there a scenario where you would have considered maybe to pull back a bit and slow down, for example, on the expansion in Germany? Or actually, do you think that the current scenario is an opportunity to accelerate things, maybe spend even a bit more in marketing to try to capitalize on that. So just very high-level general comment for you would be appreciated. And then I also wanted to ask you, with the, let's say, reduced appeal for U.S. stocks, do you think that actually other European countries can absorb the proportion of cross-border trades that were -- that was going to the U.S. So actually, if this continues, you would expect just lower proportion of cross-border trades going forward? And then finally, given the change in the rate environment, rates came down a bit, do you think that you might push a bit more to increase the lending book? For example, I think about mortgages or perhaps expanding the mortgage offer to other core clients or maybe to other countries outside of Sweden?

Yes. When it comes to marketing spend, we haven't really changed our plans. We run one really big boost per quarter and then we have always on between. But when it was most volatile, it was actually after our boost. So we didn't really need to reflect if we needed to do anything or not. That's part of our plan. So it's going to be another big boost then in quarter 2 and quarter 3 and quarter 4, but then always on between. When it comes to the German launch, there is no impact. We continue there with both establishing the branch and recruitments and development. When it comes to rotation from U.S. to Europe, I think there's been a lot of interest investing in other countries outside of the Nordics in Europe. And it's also why we're also going to turn on more countries for electronic trading in Europe during the quarter. But let's see about the flows, I mean, quarter 4 was all in U.S. and then quarter 1 was all out U.S. But I think over time, I think when everything comes down, I think U.S. is still going to be interesting for our customers for sure. And then the last question was lending. I mean we have a very healthy loan-to-deposit levels. We have room to grow the lending book and both the mortgage, but we mainly direct that to private banking, as you know, but definitely margin lending. But margin lending is also -- it's been a bit risk off now due to the high volatility, but we expect that book to grow nicely if the markets come down a little bit.

And a final point on the cross-border trading. Remember that in the Nordic markets, we also have 4 different currencies. So any intra-Nordic trading also generates the same type of FX as a U.S. or European trade. Great. We're going to try Martin Ekstedt from Handelsbanken again and see if he -- his mic is working.

So I just wanted to ask on Slide 7, the graph with VIX versus trading activity. So I guess the point on that chart is that trading and volatility correlates, but there are some exceptions, right, such as Q2 '22 when Russia invaded Ukraine when you saw volatility spike, but trading activity come down and so on. Are we looking at another quarter like this potentially in Q2 '25 given the trade war? I mean we can see trends of customers selling funds on a net basis, et cetera or is this still good volatility "in your view"?

I mean I think what you see is for the first week of April was a lot of activity. And I think short-term volatility unless it's a big crisis like the Ukraine war, I think that's good because it increased trading activity. But long-term volatility is not good if it continues for many quarters because some customers get worried, they lose a little bit interest in savings and equities and funds and thereby less customers in less savings and less activity levels. So yes, short-term volatility good, very long-term volatility not good, if I put it that way.

And then another one, if I may. So, I saw brokerage income in Norway was up 32% quarter-on-quarter to be compared with Sweden, for example, at more modest 19%. Is this a change of customer dynamics in Norway, which I think fund savings seems to have been more important historically? Or is this more of a one-off, say, longer-term equity investments were liquidated in this quarter in particular, do you think?

No. But I think we saw equity trading picking up in Norway. It was a little bit subdued last 2 quarters previous year or for previous year due to also Norway market being a bit -- yes, not growing that much. But I think it's really a bigger focus now on equity trading in Norway again, which is good.

Okay. Excellent. And then a follow-up on the fund capital, if I may. So growth in the proportion of fund capital allocated to Nordnet-branded funds has been picking up. I just wanted to check what is driving this? Are your funds getting better or less cheaper? Or is it break down to regulation or marketing and so on?

No, I think it's -- I mean, Nordnet-branded funds are mainly index funds or fund of -- fund of index funds and customers, as we know, buy a lot of index funds and they like our index portfolio. It's performing well and it's a good price as well. And our fund of funds, the one funds where you can also choose risk level is also very popular. So I think we have a good match product-wise and price-wise for the customers.

Thank you, Martin. I'm going to take a written question from Nicolas Vaysselier at BNP Exane. He asks what's your thinking around offering spot crypto trading? Is that something your clients are asking for?

Today, as you know, we provide crypto trading versus certificates that or trackers that track the underlying asset and that's been really booming market in Europe. There's a lot of trackers out there and good trackers as well physical replication, also low fees. And the upside with trackers is that you can also have them on the tax accounts on ISK and KF. But that said, I mean, especially now going into Germany, where you have players with spot trading and crypto is an area we look at. It's not top prior, but it's something we look at.

One more from Nicolas. He's asking the fund revenue margin has been resilient. What's driving this? Is the increased share of Nordnet funds driving margins higher?

Yes. Nicol, I mean, we see a shift still from active to passive, even if it slowed down a bit. But the good thing now when the customer buy the index to passive, they mainly buy the Nordnet index, where we have a higher margin, even though the price for the customer is good, we have a higher margin on those products. So that supports margin.

And also I think specifically this quarter, we saw a bit of FX.

The uptick this year was a little bit of FX effect from trading on domestic funds.

Yes, more short term. Okay. Next question, I want to take from Ian White at Autonomous.

Three from my side, please. First up, can you provide us with a sense as to how much of the net savings inflow is recurring in nature? I'm thinking about things like monthly investment plans, pension contribution, salary deposits. What's the kind of baseline level that you think would be resilient in sort of any market environment or in most market environments, perhaps you could give us -- that's question one. And secondly, I just wanted to follow-up on mortgage lending, the macro environment has become a bit more favorable in Sweden. Why are we not seeing firmer volume growth there, please, over the last 12 months in terms of total mortgage lending? I think you're down slightly year-over-year on the Swedish mortgages. So interested just to understand some of the underlying dynamics there. Lastly, thank you for the helpful detail around FX impacts on savings capital. Can you just help us to understand the P&L sensitivity from an FX perspective? Am I right to think that the costs are mostly SEK, but the revenues are earned in the respective local currency? Is that the correct way to think about it?

Yes. So, when it comes to recurring net savings, it's roughly around SEK 2.2 billion. It's a mix of pension premiums and monthly savings in funds. But we see a steady growth in this as well, especially both in the pension and but may -- also in the monthly savings area where customers set up more monthly savings. So we have that as a fundament and but of course, we have a lot of other money coming in on top of that. When it comes to mortgage, we focus mortgage product to the private banking segment. And we -- if you have a certain amount of savings capital on the platform, you get really, really good interest rates. It's a way for us to attract and retain capital for the bigger customers. But we are a bit selective there. We could, of course, go broader, but we know also that mortgage is a very sticky product. It's hard to scale up or down or it's hard to scale down and scale up, you can, of course. So we're a bit careful how we play the mortgage development. But where we want to have room to grow is margin lending. So we want to not have constraints. We don't want to have constraints there and we don't, but we're careful to secure that. When it comes to FX impact on our P&L, I mean, you're right, I mean, cost to income is 30%, so cost is only 30% and most of that cost is in Sweden. So we get an impact from the SEK variation and on revenue and on sales capital.

Next question comes from Andy Lowe at Citi.

Hopefully, you can hear me. Just one question and then just a quick follow-up. So I'm curious, obviously, we can see in the monthly stats how your platform deposits have been evolving and you and Avanza have both seen quite a big increase in the last couple of months. I'm just curious if you could maybe give us a little bit of insight as to how that's been behaving over the past few weeks in volatile markets. You've previously said Lars, that, that is likely to sort of go up quite materially in volatile sort of risk-off environment. So is that the case? And then the follow-up is just on the crypto question that we had a few questions ago. I think last time you helpfully gave us a figure that was 5% of the trades.

1.5%, yes.

Sorry, was it 1.5% in Q2?

Yes, yes.

Sorry, Q1?

Yes. So it's about the same level. So looking at full year, last year it was around 1.5% of the trades. It's a bit similar in quarter 1, but we saw more trades in Jan, Feb, but in March, it really declined when also the crypto price declined quite a bit.

And what were the figures in Q3 and Q4? I remember them slightly differently.

Yes, that's for the full years. I don't have -- I don't remember the quarter 4 specifically, Marcus. But we saw that the trade activity also, of course, went up after the Trump won the election, so quarter 4 was higher than the previous quarters. And if you look at quarter 1 this year was Jan, Feb was about the same level as quarter 4, but considerably lower in March when the crypto prices dropped considerably.

Great. And then the deposit question.

Yes. So as you know, we have been -- it has been lower net buy in the more volatile environment, but still good high net savings and high dividends and that's why we have a good development of deposits. Of course, with continued volatility, it's likely that the deposit will increase a bit, but it's, yes, but let's see how the uncertainty plays out. It feels like a little bit less uncertainty now than anyway in the beginning of the month.

Great. Thank you. I think that was the last question actually. So we'll call it today. Thank you so much for attending the presentation. And please visit our website, nordnetab.com or reach out to me if you have any questions. Thanks for your interest in Nordnet. Have a nice day, and goodbye.

Bye.