NTT, Inc. (9432) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you very much for attending today despite your busy schedules. We would like to start the briefing session of NTT's FY '24 financial results and financial forecasts for fiscal year 2025. I am Hanaki from the IR office and will be the facilitator for today. At first, I will introduce today's attending members: Shimada, Representative Member of the Board, President and CEO; Hiroi, Representative Member of the Board, Senior Executive VP, CFO; Nakamura, Senior VP, Head of Finance and Accounting; Hattori, Senior VP, Head of Corporate Strategy. Today's briefing session will be streamed live. We are planning to stream this on our website at a later date, so we seek your understanding beforehand. As for the materials used today, please refer to presentation material posted on our company IR website. On the first page of the materials are items to be noted, so we kindly ask you to read through them as well. At first, President and CEO, Shimada, will explain the overview of our financial results, followed by receiving your questions. Without further ado, Mr. Shimada, please.

Thank you for your attendance. I'd like to provide you with explanations about the financial results for fiscal year 2024 as well as financial forecast for fiscal year 2025. Please turn to Page 4. This shows you the consolidated results highlights for fiscal year 2024. Operating revenue increased, operating profit and profit decreased. Operating revenues reached new record-high levels. Operating revenue increased JPY 330.2 billion year-on-year and reached JPY 13,704.7 billion due to increase in revenue at NTT DATA Group as well as Smart Life business at DOCOMO. Now of this increase, impact of foreign exchange was approximately JPY 140 billion. As for profit, despite increase in profit at NTT DATA Group and also at Smart Life business due to decline in mobile and fixed line telecommunication service revenue and DOCOMO's initiatives to strengthen its customer base and network quality as well as reaction to the impact of streamlining of noncore assets in the previous year, EBITDA was JPY 3,239.3 billion, down JPY 178.9 billion year-on-year. Operating profit was JPY 1,649.6 billion, down JPY 273.3 billion year-on-year. Profit went down JPY 279.5 billion year-on-year and was JPY 1 trillion due to drop in operating profit and also rebound from gains on stock sales in the previous year. Now allow me to turn to contributing factors by segment, starting from Integrated ICT business. This recorded growth despite decline in mobile communication service revenue, mainly due to growth in finance and payment in the Smart Life business. Now despite the increase in profit in Smart Life business as well as measures to improve our profitability, profit decreased year-on-year due to measures to strengthen customer base and also efforts to improve network quality. But the efforts to strengthen customer base has led to steady results in MNP or mobile number portability, especially in the first -- especially in the second half. Turning now to Regional Communications business. Operating revenue and profit both declined due to decline in network revenue and also reaction to the impact of streamlining of noncore assets implemented in the previous year. Fiber service net additions increased year-on-year due to stronger sales of 10-gigabit plans and also all unit plans for the condominium market. Let me now talk about Global Solutions business segment. In this segment, revenue increased due to capturing demand for digitalization in Japan and also the impact of foreign exchange. In line with that, we've been able to realize increase in operating profit year-on-year. As for the Others, there was increase in revenue year-on-year due to expansion of data center engineering at NTT Urban Solutions. However, profit declined due to impact of decline in profits from the sales of assets in the previous year. Let me now turn to forecast for fiscal year '25. We expect that there will be increase in both revenue and operating profit in fiscal year '25. With regard to operating revenue, we are aiming for record high through increase in revenue at the Global Solutions segment and also Integrated ICT business. Now as for EBITDA, operating profit and profit, we're aiming to expand profit over medium term through measures to strengthen customer base and also improve competitiveness, such as network quality, as well as expanding profit in growth businesses such as Smart Life and also enterprise business and also transferring outcome of successful investments to REITs, and we plan to achieve year-on-year growth. So as a result, we are aiming to achieve year-on-year growth through those measures. We believe the fiscal year 2025 will be a year where various measures toward delivery of medium-term goals during fiscal year '27 will be accelerated, and we will actively undertake various measures to achieve medium-term profit expansion. Let me talk about continuing factors by segment. Let's start with Integrated ICT segment. We project increase in revenue, but decline in profit, while there is increase in growth areas such as Smart Life and enterprise business. Also, measures to strengthen customer base and also improve network quality will be continued as well as measures to reduce future cost burden. We intend to improve medium-term profit by creating a strong customer base with the launch of the new business plan in June. In the Regional Communications segment, we project increase in both revenue and profit, while there is a decrease in fixed voice service revenue and decline due to measures to reduce future cost burden at NTT West. Profit from optical service revenue and also system integration is expected to grow. So as a result, we will be able to realize both increase in both revenue and profit. Turning now to Global Solutions business. Revenue and profit is expected to grow due to increased revenue from DX demand as well as sales of data center leveraging REITs. In the Others category, we expect to increase in revenue but decline in profit. While revenue is increasing due to expanded housing sales at NTT Urban Solutions, there's also a reaction to sales of assets and energy carried at last fiscal year. So that is why we expect to increase in revenue but decline in profit. Next, I will explain our initiatives for achieving our medium-term goals. Since announcing our Medium-Term Management Strategy with the view of expanding future profits, we have continued to actively invest in growth areas such as data centers and smart life. In fiscal year 2025, which marks the halfway point towards achieving the financial targets set for fiscal year 2027, we will continue to make high-level growth investments to ensure the steady execution of approximately JPY 8 trillion in growth investments announced in our Medium-Term Management Strategy. Towards fiscal year 2027, by surely realizing the results of our growth investments to date, we will accelerate profit growth. In addition, we will also aim for expanding domestic and overseas enterprise business by leveraging synergies within the group, fundamental cost structure reforms through the use of AI, and other initiatives will be further strengthened to achieve profit growth and achieve the EBITDA target for FY 2027. Next, I will explain 4 topics. First, I will explain the review of corporate governance. To further strengthen our global business, we plan to appoint Mr. Patrizio Mapelli, who has management experience at a global ICT company and advisory expertise in business execution as a new director. As announced in March, in order to further enhance discussions on management policies and strategies and to further strengthen the monitoring functions of the Board of Directors, we plan to transition from a company with an Audit and Supervisory Board to a company with an Audit and Supervisory Committee. Through these measures, we will further enhance our governance structure. The credentials for Patrizio Mapelli, who is scheduled to take up his new position, are as shown. Next, I will explain shareholder returns. At today's Board of Directors meeting, we have resolved the increase in the annual dividend forecast for the fiscal year 2025 by JPY 0.1 from FY '24 to JPY 5.3. As a result, dividends are expected to increase for the 15th consecutive year since 2011. Additionally, to enhance capital efficiency and strengthen shareholder returns, we will implement a share buyback program with a total purchase amount up to JPY 200 billion. I will now explain the state of our shareholders. As shown in the left graph, the number of shareholders has increased to 2.68 million, approximately 3x the number before the stock split, setting a new record high. In terms of the age distribution, the number of shareholders in their 20s to 50s has increased significantly, leading to greater diversity in the shareholder base. In addition, as shown in the right graph, the percentage of voting rights held by individuals has also increased. Progress under the Medium-Term Management Strategy since February is as shown. This concludes my explanation. Thank you.

Thank you very much. We'd now like to take questions from the floor. [Operator Instructions] So we'll first take questions from those of you who are here on site.

Kikuchi from SMBC Nikko Securities. Stock price today is actually increasing adequately. You're paying a premium now. So for example, SoftBank has announced its billing plan -- increased the billing plan. So the environment has been very positive for you. But I think the announcement of the TOB of NTT DATA has increased the expectation or the multiple for your growth down the line. So I sincerely hope that you do respond to the expectations of the marketplace. We hope that you will be able to achieve results that is in line with the very high expectations. Now let me turn to my question now. I would like to ask 2 questions, if I may. My first question is about the following. It's a very -- let me start with a very straightforward question. The net profit this time, net profit is increasing. But as NTT DATA Group, outflow of profit will be reducing as a result of TOB. So is the impact of TOB factored in, in your outlook for net profit this fiscal year? I know it's a difficult question.

No, it's not included. It's not factored in.

Okay. So if the TOB was successful then and if operating profit is in line with the plan, then this could be an upside?

Yes. Yes, that is the case. Yes, it will be an upside.

Okay. My second question, now the increase in operating profit and EBITDA this fiscal year is due to profit or process from the sales of data centers. And I would imagine the REIT is going to be the main part of your increase in operating profit or profit you foresee for this fiscal year. Is this temporary? Or is it going to be sustainable, do you think? I was hoping that I could have discussions with members of the NTT when they announced the financial results. So will the contribution be sustainable or will it be temporary? So when we look toward fiscal year '27, because of the rebound, are you going to announce decline in operating profit? Is that a possibility? Is there going to be a rebound eventually? And also the -- so proceeds from sales of data centers or are there other profit drivers that -- are you able to sustain EBITDA profit growth for the next fiscal year? So can you share with us your thoughts about the direction for the next fiscal year onwards?

Thank you for the question. Let me start with the macro situation for this fiscal year. I just want to avoid a decline in operating profit. Now we talked about the -- JPY 150 billion of sales process can be expected because we turn data centers into REITs. The next fiscal year as well, we hope that we'll be able to translate some of our data center assets to REIT next fiscal year. The JPY 150 billion, I don't think that's the scale we can expect for the next fiscal year, although we will, of course, consider the matter. So I think we have to find other matters and other factors so that we'll be able to continue and maintain the profit level we had in fiscal '25 into fiscal year '26 onwards as well. So we want to maintain the increase in trend.

Well, I know that this in the period whereby TOB is being ongoing. So I know that you cannot be clear until the TOB period is over. I have strong expectations about the process from sales of data centers. The reason is because in the first 5 years, the project was supposed to be loss-making. But then you had to explain that you expect profit to be driven in 10 years' time. But as a listed company, that's a very challenging situation for you. But by, actually, by selling data centers into REITs, you were able to bring forward your profit contribution from data center. But then it's important that you carry out such REIT translation every single year at a certain amount because I think there's going to be volatility in the profit. And actually, REITs could actually help to undermine your enterprise value. That was my concern. But at this juncture, I know you cannot be very clear. But can you share with us how you characterize the contribution from process of sales of data centers into REITs? I think it is important that there'd be a sustainable explanation.

Well, thank you for the question. It's very difficult for me to talk about the scale of REITs for the next fiscal year or the year following that. We have to give -- we will be considering that from later on. So we cannot be very clear about that. But I think it is important that we continue with the REIT program at a certain level, of course. Now for this fiscal year, it's important that we consider scale which should be accessible to the marketplace. So that being the case, we are going to be releasing something that is equivalent to 5% or 6% of the total assets. But I don't think this will be very difficult to sustain this because how to strike a balance is something that we must give thought to. And also, we have to consider the other businesses as well. For fiscal -- in fiscal year 2025, DOCOMO is trying to bottom out. They want to reach an inflection point. And also NTT East and West would also like to see a turnaround in fiscal year '25. So therefore, we believe that there's going to be an uptick in the profit overall for the group during fiscal year 2025. That applies to NTT DATA as well. So it's important that we consider the overall situation of the group and the pace of increase in profit for fiscal year '26 onwards. We need to scrutinize the group as a whole. And we need to come up with the plan for the group as a whole. But in principle, we want to make sure that we avoid a guidance for operating profit, it will be expected to decline. That is something we want to avoid, and we want to avoid the volatility.

If I may add, as just already explained by Mr. Shimada right now, with regard to proceeds from sales of data centers, we expect proceeds from sales. We also expect profits from rent as well. So in principle, we expect moderate growth trend for data center. That is how we want to control the data center program going forward. Now of course, we have to deliver a certain level of scope and size in the marketplace. So in the initial phase, it will be somewhat larger as a volume, but we want to make sure we exercise control going forward. Now with regard to data centers that will be sold, there will be features from data centers at the other. So again, they are characteristic presented assets. So hopefully, we'll be able to control the future of the data assets that are going to be sold.

We would like to take the next question. The gentleman in the very front row?

I'm Masuno from Nomura Securities. My first question is related to the -- how the group businesses should be. I asked this question before. The capital not being 100%, 100%, I understand that. But one thing we have to think about is that within your group, you have various companies conducting various type of businesses under various organizations. And this is my personal opinion, data centers, it should be returned to communications, and the optical fiber network, GPU servers, all handled there is cleaner. But even though it's in overseas right now, I have this thought that it should go back to communications, meaning that the businesses, how are you going to group them within your group? And looking at generative AI, East, West, DOCOMO, Communications and there's tsuzumi, all that, they're done separately in different companies. So create one entity that will handle generative AI or AI agents. Grouping by businesses is another way of thinking. So I'd like to hear your thoughts on this way of thinking.

Well, first of all, regarding data centers, basically, currently, you have a global data center under data, and new data centers will be constructed under this entity. The important element here is that for about 60% plus are hyperscaler customers. And the Japanese data centers as well will be occupied by data centers quite a lot. So the data center business sales upfront mainly are in North America, meaning that the headquarters are not in Japan. So the contact point is something that we need to keep in mind and be aware of. Therefore, just have the Japan domestic business stand alone, the global basis, the customers are thinking of the locations of their data centers. So we have to understand this situation as well. And regarding AI, basically, within the group, in the intergroup way, it seems that various things are conducted. However, at the marketing department levels for tsuzumi, how it's going to be rolled out, within the group companies, it is discussed in this marketing meeting opportunity. So this goes for tsuzumi as well and ChatGPT type of a service. How are we going to respond? The contact point has to be one place. So who's going to deal the businesses with Microsoft? We have the rules clearly set. So it seems like things are done separately here and there, but we are having control. But as you have mentioned, Mr. Masuno, various businesses, well, especially, we -- when we wholly own NTT DATA, at that time, which operating company or holding company, which company can lead the stakeholders of this certain business? We have to have a thorough management on this. And once we clarify that, if things will go better, if we consolidate organizations, we can revisit the structure of the organization any time, so we can do that at that time. And regarding security, up to this point, security business that was conducted in each individual operating companies was consolidated and then we returned it. We have trial and errors repeatedly for this area. But we would like to do such a thing and come to what is going to be most efficient and does not cause problems for customers.

Second question is related to IFRS accounting. How are you going to recognize profit? Currently, the JPY 155.4 billion, is that included? So my understanding is that this year starts is JPY 1 trillion, JPY 1.61 billion. And the profit is going to continue to increase with the sales of asset, profit level increasing and decreasing is kind of a noise. So I had a feeling that you should adjust it. So the data center in U.S., The Wall Street is evaluating the cash flow by excluding those elements. So I think it's more inclusive that it seems that it will be growing, so it's easier to understand. What do you think?

Well, thank you very much for your thoughts. I think the way of thinking is exactly the same. And we -- our intention is to explain in that way. And we are showing you what we are doing and have it understood by you and directly make it into a chart or diagramming, show it to you. It is still something under our review. But we received your feedback, so we would like to consider it. But based on the way of thinking as you have, Masuno-san, we have provided the explanation because in that way, you are able to see a growing trajectory.

Because we have Mr. Shimada here, I want to ask you about IOWN, the co-packaged optics regarding the CPO part. And then you were doing it and then NVIDIA came in. And in the substrate, you have 4, 4, 4, total of 16. NVIDIA has 6 set of 3s, so it's 18. So it's the same structure. So the CPU being the -- putting more weight on CPUs, that's fine. But NVIDIA is making chips for 11 companies, and they're ready to go into mass production. So I think the competition is going into more mass production. And up until now, I want you to keep the leading position on the way, NTT. So how are you going to respond to this situation?

Well, first of all, regarding NVIDIA, the product itself, what type of product it is, honestly speaking, we do not know. But for us, we wanted to do CPO, but the customer side wanted to do programmable ones. So when it's a CPO, the power consumption goes down because it's inside -- to the inside, you can use optics. So for us, it all depends on the customer. Therefore, programmable ones, they have started -- NVIDIA started from the programmable ones, and they changed it to that. For us, it's actually beneficial is how we think because originally, we wanted to do that way. And probably at this current point, we believe that we're still ahead of them, honestly speaking. And in fact, right now, we are at a point that the customers are evaluating our product. Therefore, all the way up to the end of next fiscal year, it's going to be the period where it is going to be evaluated by our customers. Therefore, hopefully, by the end of the year, we will be able to share some good stories with you or good news with you. We think that at some point, competitors will rise. However, the market heading towards that way is not necessarily a bad thing. I'm sure it's not fully answering your question. However, it's not that because NVIDIA came out that we're going to be kicked out of the market. We are not worried about that, honestly speaking.

Thank you. Next question, please. Yes, please, wait for the microphone.

Tsusaka from Morgan Stanley. First, I wanted to ask about the Medium-Term Management Strategy. You talked a JPY 4 trillion number in line with the Medium-Term Management Strategy. Now we see NTT DATA data centers turning into REITs, and there could be potential volatility from the REIT program at NTT DATA. But then what will happen next fiscal year, it's not yet clear. You mentioned that it's too premature to discuss this at this point in time. But then -- but actually, there's a major from JPY 3.3 trillion up to JPY 4 trillion, but then the number -- but then the years will be limited, time will be limited for you to achieve this major jump. So I know that you're not committed to JPY 4 trillion as a commitment. But if you have indicated this number, I think you need to show some sort of pathway so that you'll be able to reach this target. So this might overlap with the previous question. Now you want to reach an operating profit increase, but then I think the message is not going to be very strong. I would imagine that it's not just a straightforward increase. There are going to be a lot of various other factors such as inorganic elements as well. So in fiscal year 2027, you're not going to make major investments. So can you share with us how you intend to achieve this number? Can you share with us your thoughts behind the management so that you'll be able to achieve this particular number? So can you elaborate on how you intend to achieve this number then?

Well, thank you for the question. First, in relation to NTT DATA, I did mention this yesterday as well, we need to discuss the potential synergy. And hopefully, around fall, hopefully, we'll be able to give you some clarity, inclusive of possible numbers. Now in conjunction with that, right now, there's several inorganic elements that are ongoing. So they're all being considered both for Japan as well as outside Japan as well. So inclusive of that, we need to consider our overall plan. Once we have a clear idea as to a synergy that is available, actually, in the Medium-Term Management Strategy, turning NTT DATA Group into a whole subsidiary firm is not factored in, in the current midterm plan. So I think we need to review the role of NTT DATA Group going forward. So at a certain timing, maybe we need to review the current Medium-Term Management Strategy. And at that juncture, if the target of JPY 4 trillion is not yet very clear, but in any event, hopefully, we'll be able to show you a pathway that will allow us to achieve this target. Unless we can show you the pathway to achieve this, I'm sure it will not be a very viable target. So while we review the Medium-Term Management Strategy, hopefully, at that juncture, we'll be able to share with you some numbers. So the timing, when will the timing be? Hopefully, we'll be able to consider the synergy available by fall. We're not sure about the timetable. If there are a lot of discussions that's ongoing, we might have to wait until the next year. But at a certain time in the future, we hope we will be able to share with you some ideas.

NTT DATA is showing profit plans, which is quite high. It's almost inflated. But on a consolidated basis, they only account for 20% of the contribution. 80% of the profit comes from telecommunications. That's the -- no matter how you move the sum of the parts, that is the calculation. But actually, there are other non-telecom elements that are out there. So if NTT is to come up with a different image of its company going forward, you need to consider various ideas. For example, you might have to include growth opportunities inclusive of the ICT integrated industry and also underlying cash. I know that the situation can be disaggregated, but I think if you can show us more straightforward message than the investors' perspectives for public change and the multiple available in the marketplace, it will likely change. This is my personal view.

Yes, there is the finance-related elements. Yes, we need to, yes, organize some of these elements, that is true. Right now, we're showing segmentation based on each operating company. So I think we need to scrutinize this and we need to really revisit this.

One other point. Net EBITDA is going to increase more than three-fold. That is my idea. Interest rate is low -- or cash flow, you have the ability to generate cash flow. There are a lot of reasons. But still, in the global business, you need certain ratio. There's a level where you need to really work on your health ratio. So how do you -- so do you need to deleverage? That's my question. Do you need to deleverage? And also in the current leverage ratio, is it possible to grow inorganic large-scale bolt acquisition under the current leverage ratio? My impression is that you have really stretched yourselves in this particular case. So what are the impacts on your balance sheet? What about the capital allocation management? How do you intend to manage this? I would appreciate your thoughts.

Yes, thank you. Well, simply put, well, interest-bearing debt is about JPY 10 trillion. That's the most recent number. And if the TOB is successful, then this will be utilized and EBITDA will be JPY 3.2 trillion. So yes, it is true that the multiple will be increasing if that were -- if the scenario were played out. Of course, we have had discussions with various rating agencies. Now we discussed this yesterday during the press conference as well, but as far as we are concerned, we are now implementing strategy that is geared more towards growth going forward. So inclusive of the NTT DATA, if the current leverage ratio could be maintained, then financing availability and also interest rate and interest cost can be managed. I think we will be able to accommodate this and still have access to good cash flow. Now of course, if the cash flow isn't increasing, then the interest-bearing debt will have to be repaid much more aggressively. But in actuality, if the cash flow generation is increasing, then leverage ratio per se doesn't need to be dropped excessively. We can still manage cash allocation that is geared towards growth. So that is the current situation.

Okay. If you have attractive, very sizable opportunity in the future, are you going to consider something else?

Well, we'll give -- we'll think quite a bit -- we will think about the response when the situation arises, I guess. But for example, if the financing opportunity were to be limited, then we want to avoid such a critical situation. So we will avoid such a critical situation. We mentioned that we'll be able to finance at a certain rate. And if they cannot be, if there's shortfall, we'll consider possible selling off some of our assets. So we'll give various ideas.

Thank you very much. We'd like to take the next question. The person in the very front row?

My name is Tokunaga from Daiwa Securities. I have 2 questions. The first question, maybe the same as Mr. Tsusaka, related to Page 9, the cumulative profit growth, how do we read this? Sorry, maybe my understanding is that FY '25, if you include DATA, then a cumulative figure will be JPY 7 trillion. So you have already achieved the target or -- but as you explained, in the medium-term plan, the DATA is not included. So in 2 to 3 years, I believe you are aiming to achieve JPY 8 trillion. So how should we digest this chart at this point?

Well, NTT DATA themselves, when we're creating this Medium-Term Management Strategy, the TOB of NTT DATA was not included. So it's not included at all is how you could understand it.

So that means that in the 2 years, you want to conduct actively investment in growth. However, the financial position is different from when you made this plan. So it will be different and adjust.

Well, of course, you want to aim for JPY 8 trillion still. But as Hiroi said, the interest-bearing debt and EBITDA, we need to be aware of that as well. So depending on the deal, we need to organize the assets. We will organize assets so that we can bring about cash from there. So this area, we would like to devise that so that it will enable us to do so.

The second is regarding the new price plan of DOCOMO. From -- before from you, Mr. Shimada, you're going to be focusing on the market share. If the share is taken away, you will lose your customer base. So up to now, you were focusing on the market share. But looking at the new pricing plan, it seems like you have started to focus on the quality of the customers as well. And this type of a plan you are launching ahead of the other carriers, for me, personally, was a surprise. So within this situation before, the 35% market share, did the meaning of how you said that changed? And also, the reason why you were able to launch this plan ahead of others is because you had to use the return to the users.?

Well, actually, the customer base, of course, I'm still focused on that. Because, honestly speaking, DOCOMO, compared to our competitors, they have not spending that much on marketing expenses or marketing cost. And finally, now, they're spending about the same amount as the competitors. So as a result of that, well, up to now, they've been losing the market share and they have losing their customer base. Having said that, there are various rooms to devise some initiatives. So it's not that blindly spending the marketing cost is good. DOCOMO needs to control it, and I want you to ask DOCOMO directly that question as well. And regarding the price plan, I think that they came up with quite of an interesting plan, different from the traditional plans. What are they going to bundle with? They looked at that, and it's important to generate added value. So DOCOMO's MAX plan, I think they have been creating that plan from an interesting perspective. And I mentioned this at the press conference before towards the media. Well, KDDI -- the plan launched by KDDI is totally different. Therefore, having various types of pricing plan into the market is going to be something for the customers to look forward to. Maybe the wording is not correct. But with various type of characteristics plans in the market, a different type of competition may occur. So I think DOCOMO was able to have a good start. But of course, it has to come with a solid result.

Thank you. We now like to take questions from those of you who are connected online. [Operator Instructions] Then we will take the first question from Okasan Securities, Okumura-san.

Okumura from Okasan Securities. Can you hear me?

Yes, we hear you. Please go ahead with your question.

My first question might overlap with the previous question. So let me confirm. NTT DATA, you're turning that into subsidiary firm. You talked about synergy with that. You talked about synergy and its relevance to the midterm plan. You mentioned that might come with some quantitative synergy numbers in upcoming fall. As for concrete growth strategy, do you think that this will contribute to the achievement of delivery of goals in the midterm plan? If there's a possible revision of the midterm plan, I think this might require some revisiting of DATA's contribution. So is that an option? So can you share with us your thoughts about this matter? That's my first question.

Yes. Thank you. With regard to the synergy, I did comment on this yesterday a little bit. I think we need to create a project and then come out with a concrete synergy in that course. So at this moment, I'm afraid I cannot make a clear comment about the possible synergy. But naturally, though, we do have a certain level of goal. It's a point that we work for a certain goal and target. And with regard to possible revision of midterm management strategy, well, how will this play out? Now in the midterm plan, we did not consider factoring the possibility of turning NTT DATA Group into wholly owned subsidiary firm. So now that NTT DATA will be translated into wholly owned subsidiary firm, yes, I think that will require some certain review of the Medium-Term Management Strategy, yes. How will this play out? We never -- that needs to be considered. So we're not yet sure as to what this will take, unless we go through certain consideration. So that is where we are at this moment.

If I could persist a little bit. The top line synergy, I understand that this is uncertain. I know you cannot talk about synergy for the top line, but what about cost synergy? I think you can -- so can you talk about how much cost reduction you expect in certain areas? Is it possible for us to give -- is it possible for you to give us some clue at this juncture?

Very difficult to see at this juncture.

Okay. That's fine. Let me go on to my second question, it's about fiber. In the case of mobile, I think all the operators are now trending toward increasing pricing, inclusive of yourself. Now last year, in the case of Hikari FLET'S, I think you increased your prices for Hikari FLET'S last year. Do you think you still have room to further increase your Hikari pricing now? Or is this something different?

Okay. Shimada here. Let me respond to your question. Yes, with regard to Hikari, well, with regard to price increase for Hikari or fiber, it's very difficult to make a comment on this matter at this juncture. But for the time being, we need to consider the following. We have to consider the migration and termination -- or migration rather of the fixed and telephony service. This is very important. Naturally, if we're going to see migration of fixed and telephony service, then we need to provide a certain level of incentive. Also, we need to be prepared for a certain disincentive because unless we have that, it's difficult to encourage people to migrate to a different substitution or other options. So that being the case, what type of plan do we have for migration? How can we move players -- people, customers to a substitute? We need to make the plan open at a certain time down the line. Hopefully, this can be compiled and made probably sometime during this fiscal year. That is my hope. Perhaps at that juncture, hopefully, we'll be able to talk a little bit about the treatment of fixed and telephony service. And that's how we want to start this discussion. I know it's not very clear. My response is not very clear.

Okay. What about -- are you talking about universal service?

Yes, that's the case. Yes. But then right now, the law has already passed at the committee in the House of Representatives. If that were to be passed, then it will then be passed on to the lower house -- upper house, rather, the House of Councillors. So once the law is passed, then hopefully, we'll be able to talk a little bit about our thinking to the community at large.

One other confirmation. What about the cost? Is the cost reflected in the plan for NTT same as for this fiscal year?

No, it's not factored in, in the cost for NTT same as for this fiscal year.

Thank you very much. Are there any other questions? [Operator Instructions] Are there any more questions from the venue here? No more questions. With this, we would like to conclude the briefing session. NTT DOCOMO's briefing session will follow. So we kindly ask you to wait where you are. Thank you very much for today. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]