Nucleus Software Exports Limited (531209) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good day, ladies and gentlemen. I am Harpreet Kapoor, the moderator of this call. Thank you for standing by, and welcome to Nucleus Software quarterly earnings conference call for the quarter and year ended on 31st March 2022. [Operator Instructions] So I would like to now hand over the proceedings to Swati Ahuja. Over to you, Swati.

Thanks, Harpreet. Good afternoon, everyone. This is Swati from the Investor Relations team at Nucleus Software. A very warm welcome to all of you for this Nucleus Software earnings conference call for the quarter and year ended on March 31, 2022. For discussion, we have here from the management team, Mr. Vishnu R. Dusad, our Managing Director; Mr. Parag Bhise, CEO; Mr. Anurag Mantri, CFO and Executive Director; Ms. Ritika Dusad, Executive Director and Chief Innovation Officer; Mr. Ashwani Arora, Senior Vice President, Global Customer Success Team; Mr. Sanjeev Kulshreshtha, Senior Vice President, Product Build; Ms.. Prema Rajaraman, Chief People Officer; Mr. Ashish Khanna, Business Head, Financial Inclusion, Mr. Tapan Jayaswal, colleague from the finance team. As you all are aware, Nucleus Software does not provide any specific revenue earning guidance. Anything which is said during this call, which may reflect our outlook for the future or which may be construed as a forward-looking statement must be reviewed in conjunction with the risk that the company faces. An audio and transcript of this call would be shortly available on the Investors section of our website, www.nucleussoftware.com. With this, we are now ready to begin with the opening comments on the performance of our company for the quarter and year ended March 31, 2022. And post that, we would be available for the question-answer session. With this, I now pass over to Vishnu, sir. Over to you, sir.

Thanks, Swati, and thanks a lot and a warm welcome to all of you for this investor call ending fourth quarter and financial year ending 31st March 2022. It was one of the toughest years when despite the huge turbulences in the environment, we continued building our strength and to give an indication of that is visible in the numbers that you have seen in this quarter. We do hope that we will continue to leverage our strengths of creating credibility in the marketplace through sincere work and continue to provide comfort to our customers and all other stakeholders for years to come. With those words, I would now like to hand over to Parag Bhise, our CEO.

Thank you very much, Vishnu, and good afternoon, everyone, and thank you very much for joining this call once again. As Vishnu said, and thanks to the efforts put in by the leadership team and the entire Nucleus team, we've seen a good quarter from a financial perspective. Some of the initiatives that we have been taking in the past looks like starting to give us results. We continue to groom our fresh hires on our products. You remember we've been talking about hiring 400-plus fresh hires on campuses. So many of them have become part of our active workforce, while other batches are still under training. We continue to groom them in our products so that they become more and more productive. We have talked about significant increments in the past, this year have advanced our annual increment cycle by 3 months to respond to market conditions. We just exercised a couple of these. We, however, continue to face challenges on the attrition front. That is not past us despite a very significant increment that year-over-year. We are otherwise getting good traction from the market. We have started working from office in [indiscernible]. Some of us are visiting daily from 3 days a week and rest still working from home. We also started visiting our customers and have started to maintain face-to-face connection with them, which is giving us a perspective that they value our partnership, the service that we provide to them. So overall, our [indiscernible] from the market. That's about it from me. Thank you.

Now I request Tapan, sir, to give some light on financial numbers.

Good afternoon, everyone. Key highlights on financials are our consolidated revenue for the quarter is at INR 153 crores against INR 121.6 crores quarter-on-quarter and against INR 124.2 crores year-on-year. For the year, it is INR 497.2 crores against INR 513.5 crores for the previous year. Overall revenue in foreign currency, including Indian rupees revenue is USD 20.6 million for the quarter against USD 15.3 million quarter-on-quarter and USD 15.9 million year-on-year. For the year, it is USD 67.1 million against USD 69.6 million for the previous year. Product revenue for the quarter is at INR 129.6 crores against INR 91 crores quarter-on-quarter and INR 105 crores year-on-year. For the year, it is INR 411.7 crores against INR 430.2 crores for the previous year. Revenue from products and services for the quarter is at INR 23.5 crores against INR 22.6 crores quarter-on-quarter and INR 19.2 crores year-on-year. For the year, it is INR 85.5 crores against INR 83.4 crores for the previous year. As for expenses, cost of delivery, including cost of product development for the quarter is 71.2% of revenue against 79.5% of revenue quarter-on-quarter and 63.6% of revenue year-on-year. In absolute terms, this is INR 108.9 crores against INR 96.7 crores quarter-on-quarter and INR 79 crores year-on-year. For the year, it is INR 386.7 crores, which is 77.8% of revenue against INR 332.7 crores, which is 64.8% of revenue for the previous year. Marketing and sales expenses for the quarter is 3.5% of revenue against 3.8% of revenue quarter-on-quarter and 3.7% year-on-year. In absolute terms, this is INR 5.4 crores against INR 4.6 crores quarter-on-quarter and INR 4.6 crores year-on-year. For the year, they are at INR 20.2 crores against INR 15.5 crores for the previous year. G&A expenses for the quarter is 9.2% of revenue against 12.3% of revenue quarter-on-quarter and 7.3% year-on-year. In absolute terms, this is INR 14 crores against INR 14.9 crores quarter-on-quarter and INR 9.1 crores year-on-year. For the year they are at INR 54.1 crore against INR 37.1 crores for the previous year. EBITDA for the quarter is at INR 24.7 crores against INR 5.4 crores quarter-on-quarter and INR 31.5 crores year-on-year. For the year, EBITDA is at INR 36.2 crore against INR 128.1 crores in the previous year. Other income from investments and deposits are INR 5.7 crores against INR 7.1 crores quarter-on-quarter and INR 6.7 crores year-on-year. Total other income for the quarter is INR 6.4 crores against INR 8 crores quarter-on-quarter and INR 7.2 crores year-on-year. For the year, other income from investments and deposits is at INR 29.9 crores against INR 34.3 crores for the previous year. Total other income for the year is at INR 34.7 crores against INR 39.6 crores for the previous year. Total taxes are at INR 7.7 crores against INR 1.4 crores quarter-on-quarter and INR 8.2 crores year-on-year. For the year, taxes are at INR 14.6 crores against INR 35.9 crore in the previous year. Net profit is at INR 18.3 crores for the quarter against INR 8 crores [ revenue ] quarter-on-quarter and INR 27.4 crores Y-on-Y. For the year, it is INR 40.9 crores against INR 117.9 crores in the previous year. Other comprehensive income is at negative INR 5.7 crores for the quarter against negative INR 0.4 crores quarter-on-quarter and negative INR 1.5 crores year-on-year. For the year, it is at negative INR 10.8 crores against positive INR 1.9 crores in the previous year. Total comprehension income, which includes net profit and other comprehensive income is at INR 12.6 crores for the quarter against INR 7.6 crores quarter-on-quarter and INR 25.9 crores year-on-year. For the year, it is at INR 30.1 crores against INR 119.9 crores in the previous year. EPS for the quarter is at INR 6.67 as against INR 2.77 in the previous quarter and INR 9.42 in March 31, 2021, quarter. For the year, it is at INR 14.28 against INR 40.60 in the previous year. In terms of foreign currency hedges on March 31, 2022, we had received $3.45 million forward contract at an average rate of [ 76.80 ]. There is a mark-to-market gain of INR 11.01 lakh which is taken to having reserve in the balance sheet. Revenue contribution from top pipeline for the quarter is 29% against 23% in the previous quarter. The order book position is INR 562.1 crores, including INR 515.3 crores of product business and INR 46.8 crores projects and services business. In December 31, 2021, the order book position was INR 563.8 crores, including INR 541.4 crores of product business and INR 22.4 crores of project and services business. Total cash and cash equivalent as of March 31, 2022, are INR 542.9 crores against INR 543.3 crores as on December 31, 2021. This includes balances in current accounts of INR 35.8 crores, various schemes of mutual funds of [ INR 395.3 crores ], fixed deposit of INR 30.1 crores, investment in tax-free bonds of INR 76.7 crores, INR 5 crores in preference shares. With regards to receivables, we are at INR 83.2 crore against INR 89.2 crores previous year. During the quarter, there is a gross addition of fixed assets of INR 2.9 crores, consisting primarily of INR 2.6 crores on computers, INR 0.23 crores in [indiscernible], INR 0.08 crores on software and INR 0.01 crores on office equipment. Now I will hand it over to Swati.

Thank you, sir. With this, we are now open for the question-answer session. I will now hand over to Harpreet. Over to you, Harpreet.

[Operator Instructions] So we have a question from Samarth Singh from TPF Capital.

Please could you -- I know you hinted a little bit about the attrition rates still being high and pressure on our employee cost. Could you put that in context with the news that we're hearing now that there's been a slight slowdown in terms of layoffs starting in the U.S., with tech companies there, and will there be some of follow-on from that in our employee costs as well?

Yes, thanks for raising this important question. The situation continues to be extremely volatile with both the kind of news coming in. You get to hear the news about layoffs, and you also get to hear news about -- from some of the big players increasing the salaries substantially. So we are -- we must say that we are at loss [indiscernible]. We're keeping a very close eye. We're trying to optimize things as much as we can. That's about it that we can say on it, which is some clarity.

And what was -- I'm not sure you mentioned, what was the attrition rate in quarter 4? And how does that compare to the quarter 3?

It was slightly better. 36% was our attrition rate annualized and better than our earlier revenue rate -- earlier quarterly attrition rate.

36% was for quarter 4?

Yes.

Okay. And like for [indiscernible] the quarter?

For the quarter, 9%.

Okay. For the quarter, 9%. Okay. Okay. And could you talk about where we are in terms of -- given our escalated costs in terms of passing some of that cost on to our clients?

Okay. So rather than passing on the cost, we have a -- looked at it from an overall perspective, and we are definitely looking as pricing as a significant area to be worked upon. We have started working on it. And at the moment, I would say that we have a tested success with a couple of our clients, but we plan to do it with more clients. Just to clarify, we're not taking it as an initiative to pass the cost to the customers, but looking at how our products are valued in the market. So it's kind of -- even internally, it's an exercise in assessing the value that we are preparing to -- yes. [Technical Difficulty] Sorry for that interruption. There was a false fire alarm in the building.

No, I'm just trying to look at, in '15, '16, I believe you spent a significant amount of money in launching FinnOne Neo. And the assumption was that it would be a top-of-the-notch product and a product like that would allow us to get the correct pricing in the market. And I'm just looking through the profitability per region, and I think besides India, there's no other region that's currently profitable. So I mean can you just help me explain -- I mean I'm not able to understand why we are not being able to get the correct pricing for our product so that we can earn a normal return.

I would say that -- okay, the FinnOne Neo product so far, largely the traction is from India market. That's what we explained. We have installations outside, but they are not in such large numbers. So that's why we don't see that -- other part of our business because revenues around products from earlier product as well as services, that definitely has taken a hit because of the attrition that we have faced.

Okay. So what you mean to say is as far as FinnOne Neo is concerned, we are getting the correct pricing in the market. It's only our older products where we are not being able to sort of pass on our elevated cost.

Yes, that is true. But even for our older product, we are not limiting our pricing exercise to only FinnOne Neo. We are going back to older customers also to -- for revisions.

Next, we have Vaibhav Badjatya from Honesty and Integrity Investment.

[indiscernible].

Your voice is a little low.

Can you hear me now?

It is better.

So on the order book, if I kind of relate to your earlier comments on pricing to the order book. So the pricing changes does not indicate that on the existing orders we have any kind of pricing [indiscernible]. So when you say that some of the customers we have [ pictured price revealing ]. So just wanted to understand why it has not been -- being reflected in the order book?

Yes. I think a couple of -- as we have just talked about with a couple of customers, there is a reason it is not visible in the order book. We do hope that by next quarter and next, next quarter, it will start becoming visible in the order book also.

And on the last year on the revenue for the quarter, we have seen quite a significant jump. So [indiscernible] there's kind of another large order execution, which has remained at the [ revenue ] milestone? Or what was the benefit on the [indiscernible] terms on the revenue for the quarter?

All right. As we mentioned, it is a combination of slightly better pricing that we've got from a couple of customers. And then yes, execution of some of the projects also, the regular execution of some of the projects. And it also is the reflection of some of our old standing projects, which we completed.

And lastly, the number of employees as of 31st March? Total number of employees?

Tapan, you have the number?

So question is how many employees were there 31st March 2022, yes?

Yes.

1,829.

And what was there in '21, 2021? March 2021?

It was 1,932.

[Operator Instructions] We have a question from Samarth again from TPF Capital.

I just a follow-up. In the 2 geographies of Far East and -- that we have, Far East and Southeast Asia. We've -- it's been a loss making for us for the quarter as well as for the year. Can you just talk about -- and I think revenues have also dropped. What is happening in those geographies?

Okay. So the near-term impact had been because of the increase in the personnel cost as we have already updated on that. However, while we were having some of the challenges in the bandwidth, the good part is that the customer confidence is quite exact. In these 2 geographies, the immigration has also opened up. As the customer confidence is intact, we are expecting new projects to come up, and with the open immigration, we will be able to quickly deliver those projects as well to increase the revenue back to the initial level. And that's why in this quarter and the next quarter, we are seeing an increase. We are expecting an increase and the current trend will be [indiscernible]. For 1.5 years, both these geographies were completely controlled and closed from the immigration perspective. So earlier we had the projects or rather the engagements at [indiscernible], which we could not deliver or rather the -- there were deferred plans to develop a [indiscernible]. Now with the, as I mentioned, with the opening immigration, we will not be having any issues in executing these programs, which are in hand for us and which are anticipated in coming months. And that's why the trend is expected to be deliver.

And in terms of marketing, what are our main focus geographies as of today?

We will continue to focus on our existing geographies for the time being, and we are -- we have initiated our market research in, let's say, Europe, for the time being, and we are getting some queries from the North America also. So we may initiate some research there as well.

So we have spent some significant marketing dollars in Australia [indiscernible] as well. Could you talk about -- I mean, at some point [indiscernible], we have gained a lot of traction and then it doesn't seem to be converting into revenues at this point.

Yes. We are glad to let you know that our second implementation in Australia has [indiscernible] and soon there will be business live also. And then we expect that third customer also goes live in the next quarter. And with these 3 customers being live in Australia, we hope to get next level of traction in that market.

Australia is also -- sorry, just wanted to add to what Vishnu said. Australia is also a region which was completely closed for 1.5 years, and we are there also now opening up. So with travel starting both in terms of customer engagement as well as delivery capability, I think what you are referring to that we should see a positive impact on the revenues as well in the coming months.

So revenues for the quarter, at least mostly that basically, so there's no implementation revenue in there, just AMC revenue. Is that understanding correct?

Yes. As of now, the -- because of the travel, et cetera, the implementations have slowed down a bit. And one of our customers is going through a merger.

Okay. So out of the 3 customers, one of them is merging.

Yes, yes, yes.

Okay. Okay. And the merger will be with one of our other customers or just...

No, no. The -- yes, yes.

Okay. And will -- and is there a possibility of us to get that business as well of the merged entity?

We are certainly looking forward to that.

And secondly if you could just talk a little bit about FinnOne Neo cloud, how that is shaping up, and at what point do you expect to get to some sort of substantial revenue where we will break that out in the financials?

Parag, you want to take this cloud question?

So the second customer you just referred about going live in Australia where the business will be operational towards this [ conference ] is on cloud. In addition to that, in Far East, so we have gone for multiple cloud technologies implementation for some of our leading customers, so from both products and services side, we are expecting a significant upside in the cloud line of business in the coming quarters.

Okay. And anything in India?

Definitely, India has been our strong customer base and the focus will be in India as well. But in addition to that traditional markets, we will be also focusing on cloud. So India grows by default in the traditional markets as well.

And additionally in India, there is an interest from some of our bigger customers also to go on cloud.

Okay. And these are the banks or the NBFCs?

Both, I would say.

[indiscernible] we had a post launch of FinnOne Neo, we were targeting largely new customers. And I think besides HDFC Bank, the other banks who are sticking to our older product. So has that changed now? And is there [indiscernible]...

Certainly it is changing now. It is certainly changing.

Okay. So is there like a way to sort of define the scope, what sort of opportunities there in terms of moving our old customers to FinnOne Neo?

Yes. In that, I would like to say that most, if not all, they would want to move to FinnOne Neo because the ultra-rich functionality that our product, our new product brings over and above the [indiscernible] itself has. With 467 APIs, it gives a crazy amount of flexibility to our customers to integrate with the rest of the ecosystem around. And this is on top of a very rich functionality, flexibility that has been built into FinnOne Neo, building our almost 35 years of experience in retail lending, understanding the retail lending business.

Right. I was just wondering in terms of the opportunity, if you could tell the number of your clients that are currently on the old platform that would possibly move to FinnOne Neo over the next couple of years.

Yes, it could be 50 plus.

Okay. And how many clients are there in India and total on the FinnOne and FinnOne Neo?

We will not be able to share that number.

Next we have Vivek Ganguly from Nine Rivers Capital.

You had a very good quarter at about INR 150 crores of revenue, given the challenges that you have faced in the past. My question is divided in 2 parts. One is, do we -- going forward, do we -- can we expect this INR 150 crores of revenue per quarter kind of to become the base quarter on which it will grow? Second is you all are at this $65 million, $70 million range and you have been there for in that range for quite some time. So aspirationally, and also from the perspective of the bucket that your [indiscernible] can address, what is possibly the revenue targets that you'll have for the company over the next 5 years' timeframe? And what are the threads to go? If you can share some light on both these in the [indiscernible].

Okay. So firstly, I'll start from the last part. As Swati mentioned in the beginning, we don't give any projections. Okay. But now I'll come to the first part of your question. Yes, we had a very good quarter financially. That is thanks to some of -- to the efforts that all of us made, some initiatives that we did. However, as I mentioned, it's not that the challenges are over. They continue to be there -- primary in the attrition challenges that continue to be there. So very difficult to predict. Of course, the kind of -- I talked about the substantial increase in our personnel costs because of 2 successive heavy increments that -- so there is -- of course, we have to -- I would say there is no choice but to grow at a faster pace. But the situation, the market dynamics are -- they are so dynamic, it is difficult to predict. In any case, we don't give predictions, but definitely -- from an aspirations point of view, as we are talking in response to last query, it's part of our plans to move as many customers from FinnOne to FinnOne Neo as possible at a faster pace. We are working on migration toolkits, so that those migrations become very smooth. So a lot of our focus is now to create that -- enhance that migration toolkit to such a level that those migrations -- so we're working on those lines. So apart from the functionality, how those migrations become. So that is going to be one very significant drive that, I would say, in this year and the years to come. Definitely, aspirations is there, but -- where we'll have it is difficult to say. We're taking it quarter-by-quarter.

We have a question from Vaibhav Badjatya from Honesty and Integrity Investment again.

On the employee cost, which is [indiscernible] INR 111 crores that we have. So is there any onetime bonus included there? Or all is like regular normal bonus? I just wanted to understand if there is a kind of onetime cost that is there currently in the current quarter?

No. It is not onetime. These are regular increments, but I'll just repeat what I've said in my initial remarks that we have advanced our increments by 3 months. So the increments are done as of January. That's why the impact has come in this.

[Operator Instructions] We have a question from Deepesh Lakhani from Dolat Capital.

How could we pull out such a large growth in this quarter? Does this include large new licensees in this quarter? Also, what is the outlook for near future? Do we have more pent-up demand that can be serviced as our execution was weak in the last previous quarters?

Yes. So as, I think, Mr. Parag responded earlier, that it's a combination of multiple things that gave us this impact in the last quarter. There's not one thing. A combination of pricing and completion of some of the projects which were long going on. So that's one part. Projections, again, repeating that we cannot give. But yes, as I mentioned, again, in my initial comments that -- there is definitely a lot of traction from the market. Almost all our customers have something that we can do for them. A lot of things that we can do for them. Whatever we can deliver, it's limited by that. And for that, as I said, the 400-plus fresh hires that we have hired, we are continuously working on getting them productive at the fastest pace. Many of them have already become part of the workforce and the rest, we are trying how soon we can get them onboarded so that they start to develop what our customers are expecting. But traction point of view, there's no growth.

Okay. And secondly, [indiscernible], what is the current attrition now for Q4?

9%.

Last quarter, 9%.

Okay. And expected attrition in the coming quarters?

It's highly unpredictable. We -- because the market is still very dynamic.

We have a question from Vivek Ganguly again from Nine Rivers Capital.

I have 2 questions. One is in the year ended, what has been the spend attributable to sales and marketing? And how do you expect that to grow going forward? The second one is which are the large consultants like IBM, Accenture that you already have in your ecosystem or also your sales from implementation technology partners?

Yes. So [ attempting ] to answer your first question, I think we are going to increase our marketing expense substantially this year, essentially to ensure that the positioning we reserve is there in the minds of our existing and possible [indiscernible].

And so what was the spend in this year?

It is around INR 5 crores.

And about the large technology partners that you all work with?

Yes. We have initiated some efforts in that direction. And we do hope that during this current financial year, we'll be able to get going with at least 1 partner.

Next is Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital.

Congratulations to the management for a very strong execution. Just wanted to understand, I'm sure this question has been asked in various forms, and it's difficult to give any outlook. What I essentially want to understand is that there has been some disruption that we saw because of headcount issue and some aberration because of the ransomware incidents a year back. Now I'm sure on the ransomware side, we are completely out of that situation, and even on the attrition side, things are relatively better. Two, three -- your inputs on 2, 3 things would be very, very helpful. First, how we were able to get such a huge revenue in this quarter from a Q-o-Q point of view. Is it like there was some culmination of milestone on the implementation side, which we were not able to execute and were able to build in this quarter? That is point number one. Secondly, are there significant traction coming from the point of view of overall demand in this quarter as well as an upcoming thing because you said the environment looks very, very good? And thirdly, from a pure attrition point of view, we are already halfway in this quarter in Q1. So have you seen any moderation versus what you were seeing in Q4?

So it's kind of a repeat, yes, I agree. So the [ champion ] revenue is the combination as we said a couple of times earlier, combination of pricing and yes, culmination of some ongoing projects, some milestones being achieved, definitely. Traction -- very strong traction from the market. As said earlier, almost all our customers are wanting us to do a lot of things. So there's no doubt of any demand. And your third point was about...

Attrition being halfway in this quarter. Has it eased down versus March or that quarter?

Marginally, I would say, very marginally. So everything [indiscernible] we've done that implement in advance, we will hope that it is better, but you can't say.

And also on the macro side of the thing, you think that given the situation that has played out during COVID and now a few quarters after kind of COVID situation, banks are incrementally -- banks and NBFCs are incrementally looking towards the modernization of the core system and lending application? Or you think this is general positive, but there's no structural that you could read out of the situation?

So clearly, all the banks, or most of them at least, and NBFCs also, they want to leverage on digitization as much as they can. For example, some of the banks now want to call them this fintech with a banking license. So it has gone to that extent. And this is not a case with just 1 bank. Most of them want to leverage technology in a very major way. And the kind of leveraging that we have done in FinnOne Neo product and FinnAxia product, leveraging of technology -- technological advancement, they are open to explore this possibility at the earliest, at least some of them.

Right. And just last one from my side. Related to these 2 products that you said, firstly, on the FinnOne Neo side, you were also mentioning some bit in terms of how the transition is happening where you're asking clients to convert from the FinnOne to FinnOne Neo. What are the kind of an upside that we are seeing if we can give 1 or 2 cases where that what were the AMC recurring revenue that we were having versus when they migrate to FinnOne Neo, what kind of an upside we can see in that account?

Obviously, we will not be able to give you any specific numbers, but we can generically tell you that the -- because the Neo [indiscernible] is far more advanced, the pricing is also similar.

So sorry, I could not capture it. So what I'm trying to ask, in case my question was not clear, is assuming there was a customer, which were paying INR 100 as a AMC being -- using our FinnOne Neo services for, let's say, last 10 years. Now he intends to move to a much brighter solution, which is FinnOne Neo. What could be the potential revenue stream from this customer over the next few years, assuming he moves to a cloud version of it?

All right. So your question was very clear and what -- the way I responded and is what I'll repeat is, we would not be able to give you that number, except for the fact that functionality that we have on FinnOne Neo is many times more. So that's the only answer we will be able to give you.

Okay. So essentially, sir, what you're saying is that because it is a far more feature rich and powerful solution, it will give enough reason for customers to migrate from the older version to this version. And of course, there could be some upside from revenues, but difficult to quantify or share with us. Okay. And lastly, from the FinnAxia perspective, we used to earlier very specifically announce some of these deal wins related to product-specific success. And we used to feature -- we used to see FinnAxia also featuring in the IBS ranking, Unfortunately, we were not able to see wins coming from this product in that league table for -- and not even in the press releases that you published for the shareholders. Just trying to understand what has been the traction in the last 3 years in this particular position.

Yes. So last 2 years, the COVID years, we had a minimal addition of new logos. But all our existing customers are very happy with what they are able to put to use to service our customers. So now that the COVID is behind us, hopefully, we propose to get active on talking to our prospective customers. And we hope to come back to you with some news.

Right. Right. And lastly, sorry for extending my questions. Just one thing on the AMC side. Any ballpark estimate you could give that on the total revenue base, what could be coming from AMC components?

No. Unfortunately, we do not give those breakups, so we'll have to -- we'll be continuing with the same policy of not giving...

Or maybe the total number of active customers who are paying AMC?

We are not be able to share that.

So at this time, there are no further questions from participants. So I would like to now hand over the floor back to Swati for final remarks. Over to you, Swati.

Thanks, Harpreet. Now we would like to thank all the investor for joining us today for this call. I will now pass it over to Vishnu sir for his closing comments. Over to you, sir.

Thanks, Swati, and I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of you for your keen interest in Nucleus Software. We take this opportunity to reiterate our commitment to add value to all our stakeholders in years [indiscernible]. Thank you.

Thank you so much, sir. Thank you all the speakers, and thank you all the investors for joining the call. That does conclude our investor call for today. You may all disconnect now. Thank you. Have a pleasant evening.