Ovzon AB (publ) (OVZON) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome. SatCom Ovson, have reported for the second quarter of 2026, and and we will now be giving a presentation of the results and the activities in the quarter. After the presentation, there will be a Q&A session with equity analysts and viewers, you can ask your questions in the live chat, and I'll raise as many as I can. So now let me introduce the executive team of 1 CEO, Pat Norin; and CFO, Andrea Logan. Nice to see you.

Nice to see you.

And a very solid quarter. How do you summarize it?

Well, thank you, Matthias. Maybe good morning and good afternoon, depending on which time zone you're in, and thank you for joining us today. To your question, the quarter. Well, maybe we start with the first slide then. I think the quarter is the headline that we chose for this quarter, very strong execution in a transforming market. And we'll get much deeper into that as we move through the presentation here. But we had a very strong operational result and thereby a strong financial performance. Our revenue was SEK 245 million. That's a growth with 48% compared to the same quarter last year. the EBITA reached SEK 87 million. That's up 38% year-over-year, representing an EBITDA margin of 36%. And the order book at the end of the quarter was SEK 688 million. And since then, we have also received 2 more orders at a value of SEK 76 million. And then lastly, but not least, cash flow from operating activities was at NOK 96 million. And our net debt have been reduced to SEK [ 160 ] million, that's down almost SEK 0.5 billion from a year ago. So we're running a very, very healthy core business with solid margins. And I think to summarize maybe this in the beginning before we go deeper into other things is we have very solid execution. I think that's very, very important. What to expect from us is to continue that solid execution but also to continue to drive profitable growth as we've shown here. So with that, maybe 2 more comments in the introduction Order intake, I mean we're very pleased with the quarter, but we're not fully satisfied with the order intake. That's the only backdrop that I see with the quarter. But we should note that we're also comparing with the quarter 2 in 2025 that had an order of SEK 1 billion. So if you compare to that, of course, everything is lower than that in comparison in the history of our company. However, there is volatility among the quarters. And I'm very pleased that we got order in in the quarter and then more new orders that we'll talk you through Andre and I here. after the quarter ended, but before this call here today. So we're on the right path and the right track here. We'll take you through that as we go forward. Let me then dive a little bit into the market circumstances that we are in and the world around us and what we are operating in and where our customers are. It's very clear to everyone, I assume that the world around us is changing and quite at a high pace and accelerating. The same forces that we discussed last quarter continue to reshape the strategic and tactical landscape. The geopolitical fragmentation, nation states are reassessing their dependencies what's important, where to invest to have a secure and control society, obviously. But also through alliances, I think the European countries are foremost focused a lot on NATO and they're also focused a lot in investing in defense. And you can see that because of the tensions that is actually quite near the European continent and in the European continent with a war in Ukraine, and the tensions in or around Iran. That in turn then leads to sovereign and control serenity and control of infrastructure. What that means and the words of nit has become very, I would say, very popular these days, but let me try to boil it down a little bit to what it means. Each country needs to decide what's important to them in order to have a sustained society. That's what it means. And it needs infrastructure. Infrastructure could be energy, it could be telecommunications. It could be the banking system, food whatever you might think it is for your country. And there's a lot of work and investments going into this. That in turn then leads to that we have a society today that are very digitized and AI plays a huge role. Data plays a huge role. And if you're going to have that digitized society, you need a very, very robust communications infrastructure. Specifically for defense, national security and public safety. That is a must. It cannot be nice to have. It needs to be must-have. And we play a very central role in that infrastructure, and it's become very apparent as of late, of course, with that. You can also see that space gets a lot of more investments and attention. There are maybe 3 things I would point out. That proves that a little bit. NASA's Artemis 2, sending humans around the moon for the first time since Apollo 17 in 1972. That's quite a long time since we did something similar. And during the Nate Top meeting most recently in Ankara, Sweden and a few other allied nations created an initiative called HALO, which means that they integrate their sovereign national satellites, into a system that's going to try to protect from adversaries, et cetera, et cetera. It's very interesting. It drives investment and it drives the criticality of what we adultsondo as well. And last but not least, of course, the SpaceX IPO, which is, in essence, a space data and AI company. So the ecosystem expands from just digital data, AI to include space as the backbone for all of this as well. So I think what we've talked about for a number of years since this is our business and our industry is now becoming a reality, and it drives a lot of investments and a lot of decisions by nations, allies, armed forces, emergency services, natural security and public safety. So it's very clear that we are in an industry that is growing tremendously, that drives a lot of investment and that is a necessity for society. And we believe that we've been right at it from the beginning, and now we're starting to see the opportunities arise from that as well as we continue to grow our business. Not so much most of you that follow us closely know about this, but I would like to underline again that our vision is greater than -- it's a great ambition, and it's also a vision that we feel very proud about. It propels us and motivates us every day to connect and protect people, society and organizations for a safer world. It's important. We are the only vertically integrated satellite communications platform in the world today for defense, national security and public safety. We'll come back to that, obviously. And of course, our financial performance is very important. It's important to run a very healthy core business. You can see that we've had quite a growth here the last couple of years under profitable forms. And we're now trending the rolling 12 months are trending towards SEK 985 million in revenue with very, very, very solid margins of approximately 42%. Our order book, as I mentioned in the introduction, is on SEK 668 million. That is a healthy sign because we are delivering on that order book we had when the year started, which means we have an operational execution engine in the company. However, we do want to add more orders in. So we increase that order book viable delivering that's going to make us very healthy and have a very long-term growth under profitable forms. Our value proposition has not changed. It will not change, but it will expand somewhat. We'll get into that when we talk a little bit about our new products and services. But what's important to understand here is that while our industry, the satellite communications industry is quite fragmented in terms of you have suppliers that build satellites, you have suppliers that launch satellites, their suppliers that build terminals or antennas, you have suppliers that have gateways, et cetera. We do most of this value chain ourselves, and we partner with a select few partners to really control the end-to-end communication platform that we provide. It is a turnkey solution from the user, whether it's a human on ground or a vessel in the air on the ground or on the water up to how we design networks and satellite systems for resilient communication, where our Olson 3 satellite is the crown jewel of course, in that with the onboard processing capability that we'll come back to. And of course, the signal needs to go down somewhere. So that's where the gateways come into play. They are placed strategically around the world, but we don't need that many because we're a stationary satellite communication platform. We don't need that many. And we're making sure that we have redundancy in all of that and resiliency in it as well. And then we manage this 24/7 around the world, depending on where our customers are. This is a very unique very strong satellite communication platform that has no comparison in the world today. Just to look into potentially a little bit deeper into what this means. In the defense sector today, the leading aspects of what we're trying to achieve each country that has defense forces is interoperability. You need to have data at your fingertips, you need to have decision-making tools at your fingertips. You need to coordinate all assets that are in movement, and you need to do it both with man and unmanned and stationary assets that you have to your disposal. It's basically a transformation from quite of a more hardware-driven defense system to a digitized AI data and a connectivity-driven system. So you could think of this as the Internet of Things, but the battlefield of things where you need to have control of all the assets at the same time. That's what this means. We play straight into this. We provide the core capability that allows this integration and interoperability and multi-domain operation to happen. So we feel very, very strongly that we are on a very strong path towards becoming a little bit more of a standard for it. Now it doesn't stop there because it also moves towards the society. If you think about back to our vision, a stronger and safer society, it connects all aspects of the society rather than just 1 piece at a time. And I think this is a very important layer of thinking strategically for nations and Allied as they think about how to secure society for the future. We'll come back to this in the future as well. But this is what we're striving towards becoming as well, the core asset and the core aspect of a communication platform for more aspects than defense, national security and public safety. With that, I'm going to turn focus a little bit towards the second quarter. I've already mentioned in the beginning, in the summary, quite a bit about the quarter. But I think there are a few things that stand out. The launch of the OST terminal, which is our next generation, what's called on the Move mobile satellite terminal. It's quite important. I'll come back to a bit more details on what that means from a growth perspective for us. We had a renewal, which is very important of SEK 74 million from a European to customer representing quite an important step towards a broader satellite communication coalition across European to countries. So think of it this way. So for anything you might mean you control it all yourself. If you do it in coalition, you start to build networks and capabilities where you can share and use those aspects by still having the uniqueness that often offers. So we are quite excited about the prospect of that expansion as well. And of course, it takes time. So we have accelerated stakeholder engagement. This is a relationship business as well. You might think that it's all about technology. It's all about space. It's all about something that is invisible in space. But in the end, these are relationships. It's about trust and it's about educating one another, and it's about gearing the actual need of the users and the customers to the actual capabilities that we can provide. It takes time. It must take time. We're investing heavily in that. And these enduring relationships, I'm sure, we bear fruit as we go forward. So we have quite invested quite a lot of that in the first half of this year, and we'll continue to do so. And then after the end of the quarter, as I briefly mentioned initially, new orders from a new Nero customer, which is encouraging, of SEK 40 million confirming this platform, communication platform we have across allied nations. And then, of course, the supplementary order we received yesterday from a current European customer for mobile satellite terminals, which is also underscoring them that our products out in the hands and on the assets of our customers are quite important for them, and they continue to renew orders and supplement their existing capabilities. We launched the Olson terminal, but we also delivered the first 10 prototypes, and that's in a period of 6 months. I'll come back to that in a minute. And then we also completed another Arctic exhibition. So why is this important? Well, Arctic is one of the most strategic areas in the world from a defense and national security and public safety perspective. And it is quite a complex area, both to defense, surveil and manage from a countries and an allied like NATO's perspective. And we wanted to ensure that we had facts and data to make sure that we could firmly say that we can implement a communication platform now for the Arctic up until a certain point in the Arctic. Since the earth is round and our satellite is on 36,000 kilometers up, we cannot go all the way over the Arctic, but we can go very, very far up around the Svalbard area. So we actually have a capability today that can be used by our customers and current and future customers. So excited about that as well as we think that has a very strategic importance to our customers. So overall, I would say, strong quarter, strong execution light on order intake early, strong in order intake late and at the beginning of the third quarter or just before this report actually and long strong execution. Let's talk a little bit about the ops on T8. It sounds like a product launch here that is not the purpose of this description basically. But this is a breakthrough. This terminal, think of it as a mobile phone in a way. This terminal is the smallest that has ever been produced. So in terms of size, weight and power. It is the smallest. It can be mounted on unmanned vessels, whether they're in the air, on the ground or on the water. And because of its size, it opens up a whole new growth perspective for Ovson and it will drive the need for a much more satellite communication capability as well as for volume production. So we see this as a growth platform and an enabler for strong growth going forward. And it opens up the use cases that we've seen have actually been the most prominent 1 in the most geopolitically enhanced areas today. So it is a starting point of something we believe could be a Trojan horse for us as it comes to growth in essence. So very proud of it. We have delivered the first 10 prototypes in less than 6 months from when the customer places the order to where it is in the hands of the customer now, and there are tests going on, on those first 10. And then, of course, we have a number of deliveries to do for the rest of this year here, but we also believe that the test will be reference points for other types of customers. So very, very pleased with the teams, both design, production and delivery of this. Now before I hand over to Andre and the numbers maybe a few words on the transformation that I've been touching on here a little bit in transformation of the market. In essence, we're seeing a change from the traditional defense procurements and needs of assets, et cetera, et cetera. They are still needed, but they are traditional. They're more hardware related, ammunition related, et cetera, et cetera. But as I said, the world is transforming towards a more digitized defense, which requires cloud-based solutions. It requires a digital architecture. It requires very, very firm and solid communication. It requires availability of data and AI at the edge, basically. That's a whole new set of procurement capabilities that is changing how procurement organizations and defense organizations are buying things. Therefore, it takes time. We all that are in this ecosystem actually have to collaborate, educate and develop business models and procurement capabilities that are different than what they used to be. Therefore, some things when you get into longer-term contracts, you get into more sophisticated systems of systems. It takes time. So what's important to mention here is that, yes, we're not satisfied with the order intake we had in the first quarter -- second quarter and the first half of the year. But we're not worried about it because we believe we're at the center point of the radar screen and working with those that need what we have and we're working on ways to actually speed up this process. And it's important for those to procure our customers that they also do it thoroughly. So we have a joint responsibility to do that. And what's important for Ovson is that we play the long game. We have to stay in the game. We have to run a healthy core business, then we can invest in the capabilities needed and orders will come. But this transformation is real and it's important to understand it because we play the long game. And with that, I think I'll hand it over to you, Andre, for the numbers.

Great. Thank you so much, Peter. I'll do the numbers, and I'll start with the revenue. And as you probably know, our revenue is based on income from -- or delivery of terminals and also delivery of services. And we have, as Per said in the beginning, have a pretty decent increase this quarter versus the same period last year. So it's up 4%. So the company is at a completely different level than it was a year ago. And to the right here, you also see the run rate of our service revenues also at completely different levels than a year ago. If we focus a bit on the first quarter and versus this quarter, the second quarter, you see there is a small drop in revenues. It's not from terminals there, we actually are increasing versus last quarter. It's on services that we're down slightly, and it has mainly to do what Per just described how the market is in a transition and we are working to increase this ability to deliver more on services as well as orders are coming. And as you've seen, we have actually booked a few already in this third quarter. So we are in a good spot, I would say. That's enough about revenue. I think we move over to profitability and EBITDA and EBIT. Here again, a strong increase versus last year, up 38% on EBITDA, but actually on EBIT, were up 74%. So a strong increase I think we should be proud about that, and we're also maintaining margins basically versus 1 year ago. And here, again, I would like to comment on the comparison this quarter to the previous quarter. You can see there is a reduction here, and it's mainly based on 3 things. First off, we have a one-off impact of, you can say, cost periodization between the first 2 quarters. It has to do with timing of renewal of insurances. That's the only thing there. So that's a one-off. Otherwise, we have the lower revenue, but we are deliberately maintaining our satellite capacity in order to be able to grow, and that is, of course, costing us some. But that's an investment as we see it, and we're also investing into way much more sales activities and also ramping up the sales and marketing organization, again, to win orders. That's why we are doing this. So I think this will pay off as we go along here. If we dive just slightly deeper into the P&L, we can also look at profit for the period where we've done all the amortization and depreciation and also have had ability to cover our interest costs. You see here that we're -- it's actually up 86% versus last year. So SEK 41 million in profits for the quarter versus $22 million then in the comparable period. And if you divide that number by the number of shares, that's an EPS of SEK 0.36 in this quarter. What's helping us here really is a lot is the refinancing that we did a couple of quarters ago, and we have very much lower interest cost now than what we have had in the past. And worth mentioning that Q4 in 2025 was really strong quarter. We had a recognition of deferred tax assets there, which contribute a lot. And now we are recognizing those assets in these first 2 quarters. That's enough about profitability, I think. So let's move over to the cash flow and the balance sheet which is really interesting and good numbers, I would say, no matter how you look at it, it's improving versus last year, definitely. It's EUR 96 million versus a negative EUR 69 million. and also versus the previous quarter, it's much stronger. So we're really good at cash management and good in our contract negotiations, I must say. Then this has also led to -- we're doing some investments, but actually mainly into the OST terminal and also into our onboard processing capabilities, which we constantly can develop and do investments into. But with that said, we then have a free cash flow of SEK 66 million, which is way much better than the same period last year. And with that cash, we've been able then to amortize down our debt and also increase our cash position. So the net debt has really -- we really moved the needle on the debt situation in the company. So it's just north of NOK 100 million in in net debt versus almost EUR 600 million a year ago. So I think we are in a really good position. And with that, I will hand it back to you, Per.

Thank you, Andrea. Yes. we shouldn't dwell on this. This is a very solid presentation of our numbers and hopefully very clear to everyone that this is a very healthy core business. As I said initially, our rolling 12-month revenue now stands at SEK 984 million and our EBITDA at SEK 407 million with a margin of 42%. So I think that shows that the core engine of this business is very, very solid, and we have to have that to play the long game, as I said before. But I think it's worth mentioning what Andre also talked about, the net debt that have been reduced by almost SEK 0.5 billion in 12 months and I repeat, that's SEK 500 million. And for someone that has been in this business for quite a while and not have this position, I would say that you should view that key performance indicator as a very, very solid one for a healthy company. And I think the order book provides solid revenue visibility into the second half of the year and beyond. And I think the numbers confirm that the strategy describes is scalable, profitable business with a strengthened balance sheet. So we're really well positioned for the next phase of growth as we see going forward. And to wrap things up, what to expect as we move forward and what's the path forward here? Well, we have 3 main pillars that we measure ourselves on financial performance to deliver financial performance; secondly, ensure commercial success and thirdly, actively scale up the company because that investment in a smart way needs to be taken a little bit before the commercial success arrives et cetera, et cetera. So this is a balance between these 3 pillars. They are all 3 very important. We don't want to disturb the healthy core business and the profitable growth that we're on. But at the same time, we need to fill up the order book to ensure commercial success. But that in turn requires an investment in an organization that are capable of dealing with multiple short-, medium- and lengthy sales cycles and procurement cycles with customers in both current markets and new markets, which we're doing right now. And then last but not least, actively scaling up. And I think the Absent terminal is a good example of that that might be at volumes that we haven't seen before. So they need to go hand in hand, but you can't wait for the order to do it, you have to actually invest a little bit early and Andrea touched upon that when it came to our investments in the second quarter that we're in a smart way, I think, investing in the right levers for us to be able to scale the company as we go forward. So to summarize, I think the second quarter of 2025 is quite strong from an operational execution perspective. And the orders that came in late in the quarter and then early in this quarter, just before this webcast here today are a solid sign of that we're on the right path, and we're playing the long game. So I am not pleased with the order intake but I am encouraged by that we do what we say and we say what we do. And I think we have good visibility into the future. We're very excited about the continuation of the year. And we look forward to seeing everyone in a new quarterly reports here during the year as well. So with that, I want to thank especially the employees are people for an outstanding work with the execution. And of course, our stakeholders, whether they are shareholders or partners for their continued trust and partnership and also for making sure that we can run this business and we can create an industrial champion out of Olson going forward. So with that, I'll turn it back to you, Matthias, and go to questions and answers.

Thank you, Per. And Andre, industrial champion, that sounds really like something. So let's start off the Q&A by inviting Jacob Anderson equity analyst at Danske Bank. Hello. Welcome, Jacob. Please go ahead with your questions.

Perfect. I just have a few couple of questions. Starting off with the recent orders are quite short in duration. And I understand that annual buddy cycles that I need to validate the service before committing longer term can drive that. But do you expect future orders and renewables to be longer in duration? And is that something you actively push for in your negotiations or...

Yes. Thank you, Jakob. Good to see you. Absolutely. Good question, obviously. Yes, you are right. They're a little bit shorter in duration. You should see the first 1 that we took on June 30 as an extension of the 1 we got on December 19 in 2025. So that then goes until the end of this year. You could draw the conclusion that has to do with budget cycles to do. So we're not promising anything, but we believe that, that actually rolls us then into a good situation for an extension of that. And I would say that the natural length should be at least 12 months on those kind of services contracts that we have. So I think that's what just as some expectation. The second order was also short, think of that fairly short 6 months, but think of that as a new customer, and that's also a proof of concept. So it's quite sizable to be a proof of concept because it includes a number of terminals and so on. So it's an entry point in that we're now working with our customer on building out the proof of concept and the use cases and hopefully bring that into a longer-term contract as well. And then the third order that we just saw coming yesterday is on terminals from a customer that we already have, which means it's a repetitive customer that sees the need to have inventory and use of our terminals which will then also drive the need for more services. So I think they might not be the average normal norm of contracts, but I think you will see a mix of short, midterm and long-term contract as we move forward.

Okay. Perfect. And just the second one. So as you described, the Celcom service were down 9% quarter-over-quarter. And you mentioned the renewals have taken longer than expected. But could you give us some sort of update on the Swedish contract that expired in February. What is causing the delay? And when or if you expect it to be resolved?

Yes. Yes. I can mention a bit without going into the details I can't go into. But I would say that, that was something that I personally would have thought we would extend. But on the other hand, we also have in-depth conversation. So it might have turned to a direct procurement rather than an indirect procurement through a partner which also means that we're in deeper conversation with the customer and user group there of looking at what the experience was for the first year, they had the service and how that could actually expand into other things. So there are discussions ongoing, they take a little bit -- have taken longer than we anticipated. But I have good hopes that, that will lead to something that is more extensive than what we have had. But I cannot promise any of that because the discussions need to be concluded and the business case needs to be concluded as well. That's what I can say.

Yes. Okay. And just the last one. So the new native custom order of EUR 40 million, that is based on the third-party capacity rather than also fee. But could you just clarify why did it not go for also? Was it a geographical coverage issue? Or how did the customer resonates?

Also a very good question. To be clear about it, we could have used to on 3 because it's in the area. It's a European NATO customer. So we could have used it. But we -- for the use cases that we saw, it was solid to use third-party satellite capacity, and also because of other things we're working on, we don't want to contract up upon 3 if there are other things in discussions that might be more lucrative for that customer and for us in doing so. So we make choices on this all the time to ensure that we have the right solution for the customer but also the possibility to grow with the capabilities we have.

Thank you, Jacob, for that. And now I will invite Michael Lassen, equity analyst at DNB Kang. Hello, welcome, and please go ahead with your questions, Miguel.

Yes. You mentioned, Par in the report that this SEK 74 million renewal order is strategically significant, and it's adding additional European at countries in some way. Can you elaborate what you mean with those comments? And so we have the right expectations.

Yes, I can. I will try to -- I will attempt to try to Michael. Good to see you. Yes, I think Up until now, as you know that I followed us closely here for quite some time. We've done country by country or customer by customer, and they have, in all cases, actually have their own networks. Their own sovereign networks, their own controlled networks that we manage for them. In this case, it is as well, but there is also a further collaboration between Allied Nation to create an integrated network system where they can actually utilize. They have an agreement between 1 another on if you, for example, move a beam who has the right of doing that. This has always been the -- with the steerable beams and antennas we have on most of our satellites that we have access to. That has always been the key for customers to be able to say, "I want to move it here. I want to move it here. I have the use case here." Now they have an agreement between a few countries that they will utilize a coalition network and combine their users on those and they have an agreement on how to actually deal with a potential move of beams, et cetera, et cetera. I think that's the significant portion here that it is a sovereign capability that can also lend itself to more integrated networks between Allied Nations and within NATO, for example. So I think -- if we can showcase that to nature countries, it will be easier for us also to actually become a core aspect of a NATO capability. That's why it's important. That's why it was mentioned in the CEO word in the report.

Okay. And does that mean that you also will have to work closer with the defense primes or other companies in the satellite value chain to collaborate more closely as a sort of a part of a larger system.

Yes. But the first step will be, I would say, the first step will be that we continue to do what we do and we do very well to manage this for the customers. But if you think about what the big project in Europe is Iris Square, which is really a sovereign network for European countries for Europe and making sure that it's on European technology, et cetera, et cetera. This lends itself to be a proof point in that, that works and we could be plugged in basically in that capability in that solution that is already existing today instead of waiting until 2030 and beyond. So I think we have the possibility of do what you alluded to but it's not a given yet. But this lends itself to do that yes.

Okay. I have more questions, but I'll get back in line.

Thank you, Michael. And let's move on to Simon Granath at ABG Sundal Collier. Please go ahead with your questions, Simon.

Thank you, Per and Andre, thanks for the presentation, and good to see both of you. I had a question. Do you have any assessment on why procurement processes are that much longer now? Is there a question of budget, are there market alternatives or could it be something else? And I'm particularly wondering whether the IPO of SpaceX has impacted these processes to an extent that there whether the customers have then simply prolong the processes due to that?

I'll answer it this way. I see Simon and good to see you as well. I'll answer the question in the following to see if you follow this answer. I think, one, when you chase new customers, it takes longer time. You're not in their system. You are not a proven supplier in their system. You might not even be in their enterprise system to click a button and say, yes, this is an already recognized supplier. So just that process takes a little bit longer period of time. But I think the process leading up to that takes time as well. So it's 2 steps in that. So that's with new customers. With existing customers, if you're in discussions about scope -- widening of the scope and how to utilize Olson's capability and communication platform, more organizations, more people and more decision makers and more experts will be involved in that process. That takes time as well. Some of it is educational. Some of it is fairness in procurement, which I think we all should applaud and that's the right thing to do. These are taxpayer money that you need to invest in things that are essential for a country or for armed forces, et cetera. So I think that that's the second. The third on your point about SpaceX I would not say so with 1 exception. I think that has to do with the U.S. market because I think SpaceX or Starlink, they've actually taken quite a number of contracts in the U.S. context. So I think what you see is the geopolitical Europe for Europe, U.S. for U.S. You might see a little bit of that as well. This might also take longer time as we are competing maybe with the U.S. America first product, so to speak. So all of these 3 in combination, I would say, are there. But I would say that space, their major contracts have not been -- there have been more infrastructure launch capacity and other things in the U.S. where they won a lot of contracts in the commercial sector for aircraft connectivity, for example, for airlines. They're basically taking over that market as we speak. I've seen 3 or 4 new airlines signing up for them. And we're not compete in that. So I think that just drives connectivity, which is positive. So it's a combination of all these 3 that actually drives it.

Very insightful answer. And we have also, for now, for some time, seen a strong period of terminal sales. And just last evening, you announced another order. And only 1 year ago, we spoke about this 30% of revenue, perhaps being a bit elevated, but now we have seen for several consecutive quarters and you are continuing to announce new orders. So we see this 30% of revenue at a normalized level? Or what do you think about the current run rate that you're seeing?

I think -- I mean you've seen it also that fluctuate quite a bit between the quarters depending on delivery timing, et cetera. but it's becoming a more and more significant portion, I think, of our business and especially, I would say, with us on 8 coming to the market that would be -- that will bring more volumes of terminals, definitely. And that itself then brings more need for connectivity. So I think it's -- you will hopefully see both growing, but there might be that the the portion of satellite -- sorry, terminals might be increasing slightly.