PayPal Holdings, Inc. (PYPL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thanks, everyone, for joining for the next session. This is PayPal. I'm going to do a fireside chat with Jamie here, and I took a lot of questions from the investment community, but really excited to have Jamie Miller here. She's the Chief Financial and Operating Officer at PayPal. I think first time at our conference, at least from a tech perspective, Jamie, so welcome. Thank you for joining us.

Thanks for having me.

Yes. You've been really busy. There's a lot going on at PayPal and excited to get right into it. But I thought if you don't mind starting, right, you've taken on the COO role. So I'm curious what your mandate is in that regard. I know you focused a lot on execution, but you're seeing so much of the ops now. So can you just give us an update on what that entails?

Yes, absolutely. When we came in 1.5 years ago, we were really focused on putting just a different kind of structure into how we run the company, how we set strategy and connect that to execution. And I think the extension into the ops role is just another leg of that. We have fundamentally redesigned and re-architected the operating framework. And one of the things we did, particularly in the last 3 or 4 months is really reset how we think about our strategic initiatives, how we get laser-focused around our 4 big initiatives that we talked about at Investor Day and put metrics underneath that and really have that be the guide for our teams as we get into executing and making sure that strategy drives through ops and results in the financial performance that we want for the company. And then that's really what it's about is connecting all of those things. And so when you think about my remit, it is the structure of connection of all of that. But if you think about it, and just as an example, Venmo is a great one. Venmo is an asset that we've had for a long time. And I think we got a lot of questions for a while about, okay, this has been here. What are you guys doing with this? Can you grow it? And it's really exciting to see how when you put the right management structure around it and really getting into, okay, customer-back, product features, what are our vectors of growth, debit, pay with Venmo, the core product and just to have that rhythm and structure around it when you start to execute. I mean, we're really seeing that pay off in places like that. So it's really exciting.

No, it's a good example. I think just to build on that, and I think I've heard you and Alex, Steve and Ryan and others talk about better execution. What would you attribute that to? I mean you mentioned focus and people and management, of course, that's important. But -- what about improvements in technology and some other factors? Is there a way to assign attribution to that?

Yes. Well, I guess I'd just say yes, yes and yes, right? It is people. We refreshed the entire leadership team about a year ago. And having fresh perspective. And candidly, the objectivity to cut through things and drive focus has been huge focus. I talked a lot about that in terms of the reset of our operating rhythms and kind of getting really, really focused on the connection of all of that. That has been really important. But the technology piece has been really important as well. And we have a new CTO, Srini Venkatesan, who came from Walmart. So he's very deep across commerce and other new leaders, Jeff Pomeroy, for example, across processing. They have been really instrumental in helping us not only drive across our platforms, but really innovate faster and bring more velocity to how we do it. And so I would say, it's all of the things you talked about, but it gets back to being laser-focused on what we need to do.

Yes. So before we get into the business and the details, just one more on that. So with the underlying technology that's in place at PayPal. And we follow the name here basically for a couple of decades, nearly. Is the technology that's in place today allowing the company to move at the pace it wants to go? Or is there still more work to do? I'm just curious where you are in that tech journey since we're at a tech conference.

Yes, for sure. So we talked at Investor Day about our platform convergence that we have underway. And as Srini came in, he has really had his eyes on 2 things. One is really innovating and executing with velocity with our engineering team. And the second though is platform convergence. We have a number of different products and tech platforms in the company. We have a huge opportunity to continue to consolidate that and build once, replicate many and so when you look at those 2 things, it's really an and, not an or. We are doing both at the same time. And what I love about Srini and I just was telling him this yesterday, like his super power is his ability to like be a very clear thinker and get to the heart of problems, but then really make complex things simple and translate that to execution. So an ability to leapfrog in terms of how we can execute but at the same time, he is ruthlessly focused on that convergence layer and getting that to support that velocity as well.

Good. No, I thought we'd lead with that because I know we get caught up in the business in basis points. But I know there's a lot of hard work that's going on underneath. And that's why I wanted to cover that really quickly. So maybe just to get out of the way I had to ask the macro question, Jamie, and sort of what you're seeing in terms of latest trends on the ground because PayPal has got a pretty unique view, right, of not just what's happening in the U.S. and e-com, but globally. But globally, what can you tell us about consumers, SMBs, enterprises? Any -- take us around the world, what do you see?

Yes. Well, I'd say it's largely been pretty consistent. We've got a relatively strong consumer. I'd say the consumer behavior has been relatively consistent. When you look, whether it's U.S. or outside the U.S. There's been some choppiness here and there. But by and large, it's holding. And I think things are broadly in line. I think that the macro, the new headlines every day doesn't always help. But hopefully, we'll get to some level of policy certainty here over the next few months, and we'll be able to -- all of us, I think, move beyond that. When you look at the U.S., we've been pretty encouraged. We've talked before about the fact that we have seen an uptick in our consumer growth fourth quarter, and that's really held in the first quarter and second quarter. And when you look at the product features we've rolled out, when you look at the debit card and a lot of the work we've done to really launch Omni and bring that halo, that habituation back to branded checkout. I think our actions and our execution are really continuing to sustain some nice change there. And when you get outside the U.S., the consumer activity has been pretty good. One thing I'm really excited about is that we are just starting now to bring all those same product features over to Europe. And we've launched NFC as an example, in Germany. And so there's a lot of different things, whether it's NFC, whether it's our new branded checkout product redesign, those implementations, whether it's buy now, pay later, a lot of new innovation coming to market there that I think is going to be really exciting.

There's a perception that PayPal is very oriented towards SMBs, but I don't think that's quite the case. So can you set us straight on that?

Yes, for sure. So SMBs, we said at Investor Day they're about -- they're just under 15% of our TPV. So when you start to really size it, it's a significant population for us, certainly in terms of numbers of merchants and how we work with them, whether it's solopreneurs or SMBs themselves. But when you actually look at the percentage of how we work and how that fits through our financial profile, it's probably a little bit smaller than that.

Okay. And then just a couple of more spend questions. Discretionary versus nondiscretionary, I know that gets a lot of airtime. Where does PayPal land in that?

Yes. So I would say a couple of things. First, we're pretty diversified. And when you look at us compared to where we may have been 3 or 4 years ago, that diversification has continued to, I think, expand. We're about 50% retail, 50% services. And when you look at us 40% U.S., 60% international. So when you start to look at the array of that across size of merchant or even across spending categories within retail and services, it ends up being something that as spend moves in one part of the world, we typically can capture it in a lot of different ways and another, whether that's geo shifting or whether that's type of spend shifting. So as we look at the macro environment we're in, where there's maybe a little bit more uncertainty overhang around how some of that may shift, we feel pretty good about our positioning around that and our global diversity.

Okay. Last one, I know the tariff and de minimis stuff is always changing. So I'm most afraid to ask it. But just help us frame sort of the exposure there with respect to cross-border, cross-border trade and how PayPal has evolved there.

Yes. From a de minimis side of things, so our TPV that relates to China goods shipping into the U.S. de minimis under the de minimis exemption and whether that's China direct into the U.S. or merchants who may have supply chains that with warehousing sitting in the U.S., U.S. to U.S. shipments, that's less than 2% of our TPV. And when you -- even when you look at just broadly cross-border activity, a significant portion of our cross-border activity is intra-European corridors as well so it just gets back to that diversification principle.

Okay. Thanks for going through that. So bringing to the quarter, I thought I'd start to ask your transaction margin dollars, it did outperform in the first quarter. I always like to appreciate what surprises the company. Can you give us a little bit more on what were the drivers of upside?

Yes. So transaction margins. So first, we're really excited to see the stability in our transaction margin dollars growth. We've seen just nice trends in '24 and that continuing into '25. And when you look at first quarter, we saw processing and value-added services, be a nice contributor, credit and debit as well. Branded checkout, of course, in Venmo. And so when you look across all of it, I'd say the portfolio that's driving our transaction margin dollar growth, I hate to overuse the word diversified, but it really is, and it's been durable. It's been very consistent across quarters. When you look at processing and value-added services, in particular, it is the fourth straight quarter of transaction margin dollar contribution from that, which is a nice inflection and change for us and a lot of hard work went into that. But when you look at debit, when you look at credit, Venmo, branded checkout, and again, it gets back to the execution, all of the execution vectors that support that, that's what's really consistently driving that for us.

Okay. Good. So you kept the outlook unchanged which seems prudent given uncertainty out there. But we get asked the question about how much of that is conservatism versus maybe some caution that is warranted for no change?

Yes, I'd say it's really both. We had a really strong first quarter across the board. And our guide for the second quarter and where we are, we think it's going to be a very solid second quarter. When you look at our second half and full year guide, it certainly is not run rate in terms of what that implies. And what we looked at was a couple of things. With the macro uncertainty and hopefully, that's beginning to resolve a bit. But we'll see. We really wanted to make sure we had room in case there was some dislocation. And so that bakes in, I'd say, 2 to 3 points of -- potential e-com deceleration, if we do see some consumer shifting happening and we just wanted to be prudent as we looked at second half and make sure that we were well positioned to move the company and pivot if we needed to.

Okay. No, very fair. So digging in a little bit deeper. So thinking about -- I want to ask about the company's credit appetite, risk management. That's a big factor for you and not to advertise our work, but we did a survey recently on an online checkout and PayPal scored very high as a preferred buy now, pay later provider, and it's been consistently doing that as we run the survey. So given that appetite and it does seem like there's demand for that product or that tender type, I'm curious how willing you are to run with that and lean into that a little bit harder, understanding that there's a credit consequence as well.

Yes. We fundamentally rebuilt the credit team as we brought in new management. And I would say top to bottom, refresh the team, our underwriting, our risk appetite, the processes that support it. And I think when you look at PayPal, we are such a safe, trusted brand globally, and our footprint is so huge. But buy now, pay later has been an opportunity that we haven't leaned into as much as we could have. And you know buy now, pay later not just -- it's a credit product that we can be very successful with. But more importantly, it's a really strong contributor to the stickiness of branded checkout and bringing kind of that halo effect around how our consumers engage with us. So we have in the second half of last year, really pivoted to growth with respect to credit. And to be clear, in the macro environment, the team is very structured and monitoring really carefully. So if something shifts we can pivot very quickly. But you look at the buy now, pay later portfolio, and it's pretty interesting because it's core buy now, pay later, call it, pay monthly, pay in 2, pay in 4. It is merchant lending. So really helping our small businesses around working capital lines or business lending. And then it's -- and it's also consumer revolving credit across all of those really connected back into our product. But it's also very short duration. And so when you compare us to our peers, short duration, about 40 days is the average buy now, pay later maturity or cycle date. You look at it, it's a pretty small average order value. So it just demonstrates our ability to pivot and move. But it also puts us in a position with merchants and consumers where if things do get to be a little tougher in the environment, we can really help them. I mean merchant credit where it's tied to assets where we do sweeps. So we're comfortable with the risk appetite. It really helps us lean in, it helps our small businesses as well. And the same thing on the consumer side with rewards, with loyalty and some of the programs we're launching around that, I think we can have a really nice continuum of how this can play.

Yes. I mean you should build goodwill, right, on both sides.

Right. And growth.

Consumer and ultimately, growth in retention. Just -- so then just to close this out, the balance sheet exposure across all of your credit products. Can you remind us of that, Jamie?

Yes, it's about $6.5 billion. And we've got a good chunk of our buy now, pay later off balance sheet where we routinely sell those loans. And our challenge to the team is really to keep this relatively balance sheet light and we price the product for economics to sell. And our economic return on both the product and the halo that it brings is very, very healthy. And it's something, I think, that's very manageable for us.

Okay. Good. So let's talk about branded checkout. I have to talk about that. I took 20 minutes to get there, by the way. Same thing. Our survey work showed, of course, PayPal is still very dominant, right, as a checkout provider. There's a big shift towards modernization and sort of the modern checkout that PayPal is rolling out today. I think I [ wrote down ] 45% of U.S. traffic is now upgraded. So for the benefit of those that haven't used it, I've used it actually is much, much easier. Can you just give us all -- how is the experience better? What's been -- what's the impact and feedback been, pricing implications, that kind of thing?

Sure. So our branded checkout redesign is really about bringing just lower latency, better experience, better off rates. It really improves not only the consumer experience, less app switching, things like that, but it also most importantly, improves conversion uplift for our merchants. And that is what they're really excited about. As we've rolled that out, we were at about 45% as of the end of April and really from a starting point back in October of just starting. So I think nice execution there from that perspective. The conversion uplift that we've targeted to see we're really seeing that as we watch cohorts and really seen the movement through. And as we look at this, that's U.S. that we're talking about, which that U.S. translates to very low double digit when you look at it on a global scale. But we're now bringing that product redesign to the European markets as we speak, and that will start in Germany and the U.K. and then really scale across all of Europe. What's interesting is that our European merchants -- a much higher percentage are on the latest integration of our branded checkout products. So that should happen a lot more quickly. And then when you look at how that scales through just even our own performance, it will take time. I mean this -- they have to ramp it within their own experience. We have to get consumers acclimated to it, but we should begin to see some of that lift in the second half as well.

Okay. Yes, going in the second half going into the holidays. But yes, and I think as more people see it, I think it will be interested to see how the perception changes. But as a follow-on to that, U.S. has been earlier, but you said, generally speaking, Europe is a little more modern. But you mentioned, I think, on the call that some of your higher-yielding European countries actually performed quite well on branded checkout. Why is that? They haven't quite gone to the latest version, but what's happening there?

I think our brand, when you look at us globally, we're a very global brand. We're a safe, secure, trusted brand. And in particular, when you look at Germany as an example, I mean, PayPal is the verb. We think of Venmo is a verb here in the U.S. PayPal is the verb there. And it's just a very habituated product with high levels of consumer engagement. And Europe has been a very successful market for us. And I think U.S. is more competitive, and it's certainly something that have more players in some respects. And that's something that is really beginning to shift too. I talked before about our focus on the U.S. market, and that's why we start with our product design, roll out first in the U.S. You can see us bringing buy now, pay later monthly, that product rollout and launch first in the U.S. PayPal everywhere the debit product, which is really exciting, is also something that we first launched here, but it's all around reviving the brand and really reminding people that as you work with PayPal, it's going to be the safest and most secure, but it's also going to be the most rewarding way to pay. But again, really rehabituating and really bringing back -- people back to PayPal.

Yes. And you're doing that at a time when it feels like there's always competition. I know as long as I've followed it, I remember some of the older CyberCash and all these other companies, but Apple Pay is moving into the desktop, right? Buy now, pay later companies are pushing very hard with brand and curating shopping and deals and what have you and Stripe sessions you guys had your developer conference. I think Stripe also spoke about Stripe Link and some of the efforts that they have with vaulted payments. How does all of that fit. I mean you talked a little bit about the trust, but the moat that PayPal has against these players. What are you watching? Where do you see potential for some change competitively?

Yes. And maybe I'll talk first about what I get most excited about when I look at our business, and then I'll talk about change as well. As you talk about moat and it's really interesting because you can look at us from the outside and say, okay, you've got really amazing global presence. You've got this huge consumer base in terms of 400 million consumers and tens of millions of merchants. And so the market position is really clear. But when you really live in it for a while, what I get most excited about is our position with merchants and how we work with them is really, really important to them. And so being a processor at scale, being someone who brings 400 million consumers to them every day with very strong conversion and unauth rates. And when you look at how we work around value-added services, it is really unique, and merchants want us to bring them even more. And so that position, I think, competitively and just with us I think, is very powerful, and it's underappreciated, I think. The other side of it is and it's funny, as I was walking in, someone said, "Oh, you're from PayPal. I love your product. And I love it because it is -- I feel very safe with it." And that brand power with respect to consumers in this 2-sided network that we have, that really means a lot. And those are the kinds of things that as we build this and fundamentally invest in the foundation around durability, around how do we habituate that even more. That's what we're investing against. And that's why you see us focus on branded checkout and you buy now, pay later, pay with Venmo, but also the habituation around it with consumers, with debit, with getting our brand and the market in a different way. So people can pay with us anyway, anywhere and have that come back to that.

Yes. No. I think with the advertising, I think you're definitely pushing that, and it makes sense. Yes, habituation means everything in payments. So you mentioned Venmo a couple of times, let's talk about Venmo. 20% revenue growth in the most recent quarter. Maybe just unpack that for us. How did the growth build up across all the different monetization potential around Venmo, including Pay with Venmo.

Venmo is a super exciting product. I could talk about this the whole time. It's been an asset, as I said before, that's been around for a while, but I think it's a real opportunity for the company. And we've really set out to just go deeper with our consumers there. And when you look at our growth vectors for Venmo, I really break it down into 3 main categories, and I'll start with sort of core Venmo, which is what everybody has known over the years, which is getting into customer backed, what product features, what innovation, what things do we need to bring to have people really love this product even more and work in it. And so when you look at things like split pay and Venmo groups, in auto reload and direct deposit and things that get people in and have it be something that just helps them with their day-to-day, how do they spend, how do they work? Super exciting product features, and it really grows instant transfer and other ways that we can continue to monetize. But that's been very basic for a long time. That's been what we've been doing. I think what's been important about Venmo growth has been the layers we've added to it. So you take Venmo debit. And maybe you know about Venmo Debit, maybe you don't. This is where you can have Venmo have a debit card that fits right into your Tap to Pay. So as you're sharing dinner with friends and somebody pays you on Venmo, you can turn around and Tap to Pay and pay for that dinner. Or in my case, I used Venmo groups to go on a trip. Everybody paid me for the Airbnb, I had $1,000 in my Venmo account. I came back to New York and paid for my dinners and paid for my different things just by tapping to Pay with Venmo. So that kind of product that, number one, brings us economics that are as good as branded checkout, just that Tap to Pay piece of it, but it also brings you back to the product, and now you're using the product in different ways, but that growth has been really tremendous. Our onboarding and reboarding right now, as an example, 10% of people are opting into the Venmo debit card. Our Venmo debit TPV grew 70% year-over-year. So really nice shifting there. And the last place is Pay with Venmo. And this is something that has been growing at 50% year-over-year. And it's branded checkout button, it's Venmo. If you haven't used it, I really encourage you to. It is a delightful experience. As you use it across different particularly mobile vendors, it's just -- it's awesome. And so -- and what I love about it, too, is vendors are super excited about it because we're bringing to them a population of consumers that they want to have access to. They love the brand. And so whether it's our partnerships with some of the quick-serve restaurants like Taco Bell or really rolling out across some of the other big merchants. We've had a really great appetite in the market for it. So you come back to that and you look at average revenue per account, we've then at 12% growth last year. But when you start to look at pulling along that continuum that I was talking about, you move to debit, that brings a 5x to 6x lift in ARPA when you move -- take that and build on that and move to pay with Venmo and other things, it just continues to increase that. So we're just at the beginning but I think it's a really exciting flywheel that we're starting to drive there.

Yes, it does feel like you're stacking a lot more products to drive again habituation and more usage and inflows and spending that down. So for us as sort of external analysts, investors, should we be tracking ARPU? Is that the best way to sort of measure the success and the penetration engagement with that user base? How would you suggest we evaluate that from a...

I think with respect to Venmo, sure, I think that's actually the way we look at it internally and we look at the different metrics that ladder into that. And I think over time, that is probably for Venmo, the best thing to track on that. With respect to the broader PayPal, I think there are different metrics you have to look at because you look at processing in VAS, it's very different, and you start to look across credit and other places. There's different metrics of growth there, too.

Yes. No, it seems like there's a lot of room for Venmo from an ARPU standpoint, but yes, we'll keep asking hopefully the right questions on that. Let's do PSP or Braintree. 2% TPV growth last quarter. Is it fair to say that growth has bottomed given some of the price-to-value initiatives that you put in place?

Yes. I think that is a fair characterization. We had 2% growth in the first quarter. And I think what's important to kind of look underneath the covers there a little bit about is that Braintree was slightly negative in terms of growth, and that was offset by small business processing and by value-added services growth. So continued nice performance there. In second quarter, I think the profile will be roughly similar. And then second half is when you'll see that acceleration of growth begin again.

And then -- so is that just a function of other than comps and everything else, just wins in the marketplace? It feels like there's a lot more, we call it, load management, just jump ball situations on Braintree. What's happening trend-wise competitively?

So it is the lapping of some of the larger renegotiations we had last year. But in addition to that, value-added services growth has been really strong, and we're seeing that continue to layer in with merchants. And so that is a nice vector for growth there, too. And I'd say the other piece of it is that when you look at our merchant relationships, and we've talked about this a little bit, as we really set out to, we call it, have different kinds of price-to-value conversations with them, I think what has been a nice evolution for us is really having those relationships become even more strategic as we did it. As we really talked about -- we want to talk about how we work together, and we want to make this really good for you, but we need to be in a better place, too. Let's talk about how we do that. It's just a different kind of conversation. And so what has been a nice surprise is that we do have positive and healthy growth in volume and other services coming out of that as well. So I think you see it across the board in different ways.

Okay. Good. I know we've talked about it a lot, right? There's so much difference in business model and take rate is fair or not an output of all of this. So what should we expect in terms of take rate trends for PayPal in the short to midterm?

So right now, take rate has come down, and it's come down to a couple of different reasons, actually, mostly product mix related. Part of it is what we were just talking about as Braintree has declined in TPV, Braintree has a large U.S. sort of credit card processing element to it. And so as that has come down, take rate has come down as well. But we've also seen the growth of lower take rate but high-margin products. So things like payouts, our debit product. A lot of the omni work we're doing is, again, lower take rate, but very high margins, a really healthy mix shift, and that's causing a part of it. And then you see a little bit of shifting across branded checkout as well in terms of higher growth in large enterprises versus SMB, higher growth in Europe. So some of that is there as well. And you look at take rate over time, as Braintree continues to shift back and as we see that, that will cause a little bit of remix there, but there'll be some puts and takes, I think.

But the incremental margins have still been very healthy and your overall margin profile adjusted has been strong as well. Anything to -- it doesn't feel like there are a lot of constraints to margin expansion. You're able to invest and still expand on the margins. But tell us where you are as COO here, not as CFO, I guess, both, the confidence in your ability to commit to margin expansion.

And I'll talk about it both at the transaction margin level as well as at the op margin level. And we've got really good confidence around the durability of our transaction margin growth profile. We talked before about the different things that we saw come through in the last couple of quarters. But when you start to double-click into those, each one of those has shown really nice and consistent durability. Take processing as an example. That's something that while we only had 2% TPV growth in the first quarter, we saw a really nice transaction margin growth. And we expect that to be a point of contribution for the year in terms of growth from that perspective. And we expect similar things across other products. But when you look at what's driving that and our ability to continue to remix OpEx, that's something that when we set out and really looked at planning '24 and beyond, we knew we had a lot that we could harvest around our current OpEx profile. And we also knew that to really drive growth in the company, we had to invest more in engineering and product and in marketing. We're not -- we haven't been investing nearly our fair share in marketing. So to date, we've remixed already about $400 million to $500 million into those areas just by driving more automation, becoming more efficient, just shifting headcount. And as we go forward, that's the play we continue to expect as well. We expect OpEx growth to be at less than half the rate of transaction margin dollar growth. This year, it should be low single digits, say. But that play and how we do it, we continue to think that we've got a nice runway to do that and self-fund.

Very good. So just -- I have to ask just on the inorganic side. Is that -- or even maybe divestitures as well, but just thinking about the inorganic, we've seen some consolidation in the sector. I'm sure you're seeing that and even more strategic minority investments across the group. Is that a bigger consideration now that you've seen the peer group doing a little bit more of that?

It's something we watch and something that we look at all the time. I would say that our focus has been on really driving durability and stability of our foundation. And so really getting our products kind of back to basics with our consumers, driving the right kinds of improvements into them and really building out what we want to be the growth engine for the company. And I think you'll see us looking more at tuck-ins, adjacencies, things that can really enhance the growth profile, but we'll be really thoughtful and judicious about it. I think anything we do, we want it to be highly aligned with strategy, and we would want it to be something that we see very clear line of sight as to how we execute and how it really drives growth and enhances the value of the franchise.

Yes. Okay. Good. I know we're almost out of time. I think just to close out, right, I respect the company's ambition to grow with e-commerce. I think that's the right call. We've always called PayPal a sleeping giant, and it feels like you've woken it up with some good change here. What ultimately is it going to take for the company to get there? Jamie, is it really tracking branded checkout? I know that gets so much attention, but there's so many other things you guys are working on. We talked about Venmo. Can you order that for us? What should we expect from the outside to get to where you want to be?

One of the things that I think is most underappreciated about us is the diverse set of margin drivers that we can really inflect here at PayPal. And I've talked about all of them. Certainly, branded checkout is really important. And it's one that is a core product and how people experience us in that is really important. And that's why we're investing so heavily against that and against our brand, against the experience. But when you get beyond that, processing and value-added services, debit and credit and Venmo, all of those individually are large growth vectors for us. And I think that is a really important portfolio for us to drive. But when you start to look too at how with agentic commerce, when you look at advertising, when you look at crypto payments and crypto rails, those are places that we have made significant pushes into. In some cases, we've had great assets that we've been sitting on, and we've already got a huge head start. But when you start to look 3, 5, 7 years out in some of the other vectors that's just simply going to enhance those core areas, I think those are the kinds of things that you're going to see PayPal doing and create the durability around our profile.

It's good stuff. I wish we had more time to talk about agentic and stablecoin, but it's good. We covered a lot of stuff, and I appreciate the time as always, Jamie.

Great. Thanks so much.

Thank you so much.