ReFuels N.V. (REFL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the ReFuels Investor Presentation. [Operator Instructions] And I would now like to hand you over to the executive management team from ReFuels, Philip. Good morning, sir.

Good morning. Good morning to everyone who's watching this live, and good morning or good day, whichever time of the day, you watch this on catch-up. So we are pleased and quite excited about reporting our Q4 results. Before we get into those, just a bit of a reminder who we are, what we do. So we are currently on a mission to decarbonize Europe's truck fleet, starting out with the U.K. truck fleet. Our key market is typically the heavy end of trucks. I mean, technically, anything from 3.5 tonnes and above is defined as a so-called HTV. We, however, focus mainly on the so-called articulated trucks, the tractor and trailer combination you see going up and down the motorway. If you look at our reach today, we just recently opened our 16th large grid connected station. We today refuel more than 2,000 trucks daily exclusively through our network. And we're very proud that we have helped our customers save and for calendar year 2024, more than 216,000 tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions. And also important to highlight, this is no longer just a niche solution that a select large fleets or brands are using. We now have north of 170 unique customers using our network. What does a typical station look like? This is our new Aycliffe station in the Northeast of England. And for those of you who have seen our presentations before, you'll probably ask why am I continuing to harp on about this one. There are typically some misconceptions about what we do, the scale we operate at. When people hear about refueling stations, they often think about either EV charging for cars, which actually you see on the right there, those blue parking spaces or they think of a typical regular petrol and diesel forecourt. This is very different. This is focused on trucks. They're unmanned. This one can refuel 14 trucks simultaneously, typically 800 trucks a day when it reaches full utilization. As I said, it's unmanned, draws in gas from the grid on demand. And as such, it is the most efficient way of putting a 100% renewable and sustainable fuel into a vehicle. So what are the highlights for this quarter and some subsequent events? First of all, and Baden will go into this in a bit, it is the first quarter of profit since we listed the company. If you look at dispensing, that continues to ramp up nicely. I mentioned trucks previously. We're now north of 2,000 trucks a day using our network with a lot more expected to be delivered over the coming quarters. Once again, for those of you who've seen our presentations, we'll know that we're quite excited about the 6x2 trucks arriving. And whilst we have had an IVECO product available for a while, Scania launched their 6x2 last year, and we've now had the first confirmed customer orders placed, and those are actually being delivered surprisingly early. So those will be delivered over the summer months, whilst we were expecting them to be delivered towards the back end of the year. When it comes to biomethane sourcing, we are mainly complete when it comes to basically sourcing for 2025. And we are also making very good progress on sourcing for 2026. Once again, Baden will touch a bit upon that and what that means for margins going forward. We opened Livingston just a week ago. So that takes us capacity up to close to 11,000 HGVs across our network. And finally, we've spoken to this in the past, but it's just important, I think, to reiterate that the deal that we announced with Foresight in March/April is a tremendously strong foundation for us to grow -- to continue to grow going forward. This is just sort of highlighting the structure where we are basically collapsing three verticals, if you want. One is the biomethane sourcing, which you see under the RTFS banner here. You have the station operators and developers, the engine room, if you want, under CNG Fuels. And then you have a third entity, which was where all the station assets were owned, which is CNG Foresight. All of that has now been brought into one -- under one umbrella under CNG Fuels, and that has not only given us a positive cash flow and profitability, as you will see later on, but it's also given us a very good foundation to attract some external debt to continue to grow. So why have we done that? The previous structure was no longer fit for purpose. It was getting too complex. We had cash flows into various entities, which wasn't necessarily benefiting the overall strategic flexibility and the direction we wanted to go. By doing so, now we've simplified it. It's a lot easier structure to understand. All the station ownership has come underneath CNG Fuels, which then gives us the internalized cash flows that you'll see later on in profitability and once again, puts us in the best position to continue to grow going forward and to capture that 6x2 demand that we can see is coming. So where have we come from? So this just goes back to January 2020. If you were to go further back, I think there is a good way of illustrating where we've come from. When we opened our first new station, which was Leyland in February 2016, there were 7, and I repeat, 7 dedicated CNG trucks on the road in the U.K. Today, we alone refuel well north of 2,000. So in the space of 9 years, we've gone from having 7 using our network to now being north of 2,000. And of course, if you look at that graph on the left, you can see the majority of that growth has only come in the last 3 or 4 years. If you then extrapolate out in time, knowing what we know now about adoption rate of 4x2s, we're essentially currently 10% of the market and you apply that to the 6x2 market, all of a sudden, of course, we're expecting that number to grow massively over the coming years. We supply our customers with 100% renewable and sustainable fuel known as biomethane. This is a locally produced fuel in the sense that the feedstocks that are used in this might be food waste, agricultural waste and residues, manure, sewage sludge, et cetera, it's something that is sourced and therefore, the gas is produced locally. We are one of the largest buyers of unsupported biomethane across Europe. So what are the benefits? Well, first of all, most of our customers can't afford to decarbonize and can't afford to go green if they're losing money compared to a baseline. So not only do you achieve deep greenhouse gas emission reductions, 80%, 90%, you can go north of 90% as well. It can even go negative with biomethane coming from manure, but you also have cost savings versus regular diesel, but also cost savings versus biodiesel, which is HVO, which is basically the closest we can get to competition. Our main competition isn't electrified trucks or HVO. The main competition for -- if you can call it that, is actually 100% biodiesel also through -- also known as HVO. So why do I stress that biomethane is something that's locally produced. Because if you look at HVO, and I'm not here to throw HVO into the bus. There's lots of very good HVO out there. There's lots of sustainably sourced and produced HVO. But because feedstocks used for HVO, such as used cooking oil and tallow are globally traded, the fuel itself is globally traded. The quality of assurance that you know that the feedstock is indeed a waste-based feedstock and that HVO has indeed been produced using that feedstock can sometimes be hard to track and can sometimes be hard to verify. That is not the case for biomethane. As I say, these are locally produced feedstocks, very easy to verify and the chain of custody from producer to us is comparatively simple and transparent compared to the trade and the source -- the trade of liquid biofuels and the sourcing of the feedstock for those. If you then look at the potential for biomethane growth across Europe, it's huge. We're only really at the start of a journey when it comes to how much biomethane is currently being produced and how much could be produced. And we know that close to EUR 30 billion of private funding alone, and then you can put some public on top of that has been committed to growing biomethane production over the next 5 years. I mentioned the 6x2 already and the 4x2 versus 6x2. So just let's start on the right-hand side here as a bit of a reminder. Currently, we've really only been able to penetrate 1/6th of the market, if you want, which is the so-called 4x2 market. That is the market where the truck manufacturers have been producing a 6x2 -- sorry, a 4x2 product. If you then look at the 6x2 that has come, yes, we've had an IVECO product on the market. That has been much improved as well with a new module range that has been released and has been received very positively by the market. And in addition, we have the Scania product that we mentioned that was released last year, where we will, over the coming months or expect to see over the coming months, the first Scania 6x2s be delivered to customers, and then we're expecting additional orders there to flow through the year. So if you look on the right-hand side, again here, the potential we have for penetrating the 6x2 market is huge, and that's why we -- and that doesn't mean that we think we're going to stop growing in the 4x2 market. On the contrary, we will expect to continue to grow there, but now we can also start to tap into a market that is much larger than the one we've got today. I mentioned the Foresight transaction previously. That has been very important for us. Why? Because we have an ambition to double our refueling capacity over the next 3 years. And we'll do that two ways. One, we will increase our station, our public access station count by at least 9 stations or that's the ambition. Of course, if the 6x2 takes off the way we hope and currently see as quite likely, and we'll probably need more stations than that. And this, of course, the structure we've now done with Foresight puts us in a strong position there through internally generated cash flow and the debt facility that we're currently looking to secure shortly. So this is just to illustrate where we're going here. Livingston, we opened just recently. You can see a Tesco truck there. I think the largest distribution center for Tesco in the U.K. is just across the road from it. We're looking to go into development very soon on a site in South Wales, which is on the M4, a very, very important site for us. And then there will be more following, which we'll update the market on when they're going to build or at the next quarterly presentations. One thing that we've probably not spent enough time explaining and talking about previously has been the so-called mobile refueling stations. This is a concept that we developed back in 2019, 2020. We've currently got 11, 10 that actually exist today are in operation and 11, which is essentially in build/onorder. And then we're looking to order more or expect to order more later this year. We have a target over the next 3 years to basically triple to go from 10 to 30. Why do we see that growth? Because building grid connected stations takes time, securing land takes time, permits and so on and so forth take time. And MRS takes basically 8 months lead time from we place the order until it's in operation, doesn't need planning for permission, can be moved around easily and so on and so forth. So it is an elegant and very efficient way of bringing customer adoption forward whilst we are still developing grid connected stations in the background. If you then look at certificates, RTFCs, once again, Baden will touch a bit upon more on margins here. But what we're seeing is RTFC prices have come up and have basically stabilized in the 25p, 26p, maybe 26p and a bit p-range. Why? Well, we've seen the biodiesel market, which essentially sets the price of RTFCs, has stabilized over the last 6 to 12 months. I think it's probably not still as stable and as healthy as it should be. But we're also seeing feedstock markets starting to tighten gradually. And I think from our perspective, to see this gradually move forward and not have this really sort of seesaw effect here is nice and is something that we're, I'd say, comforted by in the sense it looks to be a sustainable trajectory here. And with that, I will hand it over to Baden.

Thank you very much, Philip. So during the quarter, we recognized RTFCs at an average value of 23p. That was largely due to forward deliveries on RTFCs that we sold forward in prior quarters. As you saw from the previous graph, we have -- the RTFC price has been improving, it's about 44% higher than it was last year. And so as we forward sold on the way up, we have now delivered the majority of those RTFCs that were sold around those prices, and that gives us a blended cost of about 23p. At that 23p, however, we have been generating very healthy margins, just getting back up to our historical average of around 30%. So we're selling at about 28% margin, which is very healthy and provides obviously a very good return for the business. As you saw on the previous slide, 25p roughly has been our historical average for -- over a very long period. We've obviously had periods where it's been higher and lower than that. And that has been roughly around that 30% margin. So you can see we are roughly trading around where we have been historically. The 73 million RTFCs sold in Q4 did include the 13.7 million that we carried forward from the last period. Why do we do that? And why do we recognize those now? Those 13.7 million were actually sold at spot. They were generated in Q3, but we don't recognize them in Q3 because they were sold on spot in Q4, whereas there are other 60 million we have sold in this quarter were sold were sold -- or sold at spot in this quarter itself. As Philip mentioned, we are fully sourced for 2025 and progressing very well on our 2026 sourcing, and that's been because of the favorable market conditions, which have enabled us to source both enough biomethane for the periods, but also for us to be able to sell forward a lot of the RTFCs that will be generated by that biomethane. What that means for us is that we've got excellent visibility on significant earnings for the remainder of the year and for part of next year, which, of course, helps underwrite the way we approach the market from RTFC and biomethane perspective and of course, our profitability for those periods. So that's -- yes, that's obviously been a very favorable improvement over the last -- over prior quarters. So here, we can see what I've tried to display here is that our dispensing is not -- doesn't go in a straight line over the year and neither does our biomethane sourcing and RTFC generation. There's a few different reasons for that. Obviously, the trucks arrive at different times depending on seasonality. But what we have here is actually a really useful way of timing our sourcing, our RTFC generation and sales and other market factors such as when there's best time to ship gas in order to maximize the amount of earnings we can make from it and also time things for when our suppliers would like to be paid or RTFC -- or the recipients of RTFCs would like to receive their certificates. For us, we have a calendar year obligation for the RTFO, where we have to be fully sourced over a calendar year. And once you move into the Q4, which, of course, is -- for us is a financial year is actually into a new obligation year. At that point, you can't backward source. But over the course of the calendar year, we're able to make sure we are fully sourced ideally at the end of the first quarter, which for our customers is important because a lot of their financial years end at the end of the first calendar year quarter, so they can say they are fully sourced or can give their sourcing percentage for the year for their annual reports. And then, of course, we make sure we do our best -- make our best efforts to be fully sourced in the calendar Q4, which is when the obligation year finishes. And that enables us to then apply that biomethane to the prior quarters so our customers can be ideally fully sourced for biomethane for the entire year and for us to be able to time again -- time the market to maximize our earnings. Why is this important? Because as you'll see, we're in Q4 right now. We've had a very good quarter and we're current in Q4 financial year now, which is a Q1 calendar year. And we've obviously had a very good quarter. But what we do expect over the next 2 quarters is that there will be a slow RTFC generation and slow biomethane sourcing. And then you'll see another uptick again into the Q3, which, of course, is the end of the calendar year, end of the obligation year. So it's just important to understand these earnings are not smooth and our volumes and volumes for trucks, of course, are not smooth either. But over the course of the year, it is -- you understand that we are fully sourced, gives you the visibility to where we need to be by the end of the calendar. So here is the financial highlights. This is the last time we will be presenting a full set of consolidated results for ReFuels. This is the ReFuels N.V. level, which is the listed entity because due to the -- because with the new structure of Foresight, which started after the end of -- just after the start of April, we will now no longer consolidate fully the earnings of RTFS, which was previously in there and CNG Fuels. Of course, we weren't previously consolidating the CNG stations anyway, and I'll run through those on the next slide. But what we can see here is obviously as a final quarter is an excellent set of results with GBP 3.4 million of profit before tax. GBP 4.2 million of EBITDA and GBP 4.7 million of adjusted EBITDA when we take out those noncash items such as fair value remeasurements and the valuations around warrants and shares. So yes, an excellent -- obviously, it's a very good result. We've also seen gross profit, which is a good barometer for the business, up to GBP 17 million for the year versus GBP 2.3 million for the prior year, which obviously shows really fantastic recovery in the business and yes, in our underlying trade. And also this very strong quarter has now pulled our entire -- pulled our financial year into EBITDA positive -- to be EBITDA cash flow positive. In saying that, the cash flow from operations has done very little in the last quarter, and that's just largely due to changes in working capital and our trade payables and trade receivables, which are very large within the intergroup itself, but a very -- a vast improvement on the prior year. And obviously, very happy to show this is the final way we show these ReFuels earnings. And I'll go into how we plan on showing earnings to investors going forward shortly. Here's the station portfolio. So this is just purely the stations -- station operations and their performance, which historically we've not consolidated but will now be consolidated in CNG Fuels and will be visible on a segmented basis. Station portfolio grew to GBP 1.82 million of EBITDA in the quarter, up 14% from the prior year. And full year takes us to about GBP 7 million of EBITDA being generated from the CNG stations. We've had -- we've seen lower operating cost per kilo, which is a function of scale, which is really starting to -- which is obviously really starting to improve. And we've also had improved electricity prices from relatively high levels around the end of year period. Truck deliveries, which have been -- were slow into the end of last year due to a number of factors affecting the haulage sector, have started to pick up. We're starting to see the order book, which was already -- which is already -- which we know has been confirmed by customers and by the OEMs as is starting to get delivered. And we also know that once the order book that we have -- the existing order book that we have already had confirmed is delivered, we will be pushed up through that about GBP 12 million of run rate of EBITDA per year, which is enough to turn the entire of the CNG Fuels part of the business, which has the overheads for new station developments, et cetera, operations of our haulage and transport operations and the stations into profitability, which obviously which will be a very exciting landmark. And here we show -- this is the new CNG Fuels pro forma earnings. So this is -- we will be in the future, showing both the ReFuels with the nonconsolidated position, which, of course, we report for accounting purposes and disclosure purposes, but we'll also be showing the CNG Fuels earnings going forward and the performance of CNG Fuels. CNG Fuels has got both of the businesses, the station operating part of the business. It has the overheads associated with new growth opportunities, and it has the RTFS, the biomethane and RTFC part of the business. And particularly, the station part of the business and the RTFC part of the business are the ones we get asked about the most, and they're the ones that investors generally want the most visibility on. So we're going to do our best to make sure we can split these out to the extent possible before, obviously, the rest of the business is brought back together for what we disclosed. CNG Fuels is now 40% owned by ReFuels. We have -- with a ratchet mechanism on certain value recognition in the future. But currently, as we're at 40%, it won't be consolidated, but we'll be able to show everyone the full -- on a full 100% basis, how the business is performing going forward. And as you can see here, we had a very -- we had a substantial profit in the period, GBP 5.7 million on an EBITDA basis. And although you can see there that between Q2, Q3, Q4, there was a dip in Q3, and that's because we had a couple of one-off items. We had some very large transaction costs, and we had certain other adjustments that came out that had they not been moved into this quarter, you would have actually seen a smoother increase from the GBP 1 million upwards and probably a slightly lower number than the GBP 5.7 million. But between the 3 quarters, you would have seen a steady improvement on the way up. And obviously, we look to, aside from those seasonal adjustments that I mentioned earlier, continue on a positive trajectory going forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Baden. I will briefly summarize, and then we'll go into some questions. I can see some have been submitted. And yes, if you want to submit questions, feel free to go for it, and we'll do our best to answer them. So Baden has gone through our financials. It's very exciting and good to see that we have finally reached profitability. That's, of course, been the plan for a very long, long time. We will continue to be on an increase. We expect to continue to be on an increased trajectory of profitability going forward. And it's good to see that the plan we put in place many years ago is now bearing fruit and that we will just continue to accelerate and execute on that plan going forward. Where we've got to today has pretty much all been based on 4x2 trucks. I think there are today about 80 6x2s on the road going through our network. So in percentage terms, a very small percentage of the fleet. However, as you've seen previously, the 6x2 market is, of course, a 6x market compared to the 4x2 market. So as deliveries there start to ramp up later this year and into 2026, we are optimistic that, that will just mean that our growth rate should accelerate going forward. We are fully sourced, pretty much fully sourced for 2025. There might be tiny bit more sourcing we need to do towards the end of the year, but all of that is really rounding errors, if you want. And 2026 is looking good. Biomethane as such, there is a strong momentum behind biomethane growth across Europe, not just in the U.K. but across Europe for a whole range of reasons. And more importantly, compared to lots of the other biofuels out there, it's not a feedstock constrained fuel. It's not a fuel that needs novel production pathways, AD, and the way biomethane is produced, has been tried and tested and perfected for decades, and we can be very, very certain of the sustainability criteria that come with it because it is a locally produced fuel. And finally, we have a strong financial footing now. We are working on a debt process, we're looking to provide an update on in the not-too-distant future, which we can then deploy into further stations. And of course, we are cash flow generative, not only at the profit level, but also positive cash flows as such, which we, of course, can also use to accelerate our growth. And with that, I will drop the slides, and then we will go into the Q&A section and feel free to put through additional questions if you want.

There's one here, can you comment on station level economics? What payback period are you seeing on newly deployed stations? And how has this changed with scale? Well, I can give a general one and maybe Baden can jump into a bit more of the details. We won't go into details on specific stations, named stations. That's not how we operate. But in general, what we can say is that on the previous slide, you see we have a typical payback period of 5 years there or thereabout. The most recent stations we have opened have seen rapid truck growth very soon in their life, which is only natural when you know that there are so many more customers now adopting. And that's the trend that we expect going forward. Also for the stations that we are looking to go into development on, one in South Wales and others, those are basically the cherry-picked locations if you want. We've got a wide variety of stations and locations that we could be selecting for development. And we've been very selective here, wanting the ones that really rank us the highest with regards to early adoption. Anything more you want to add there, Baden?

Yes, I'll quickly add that just a bit more color. I mean, depending on how long you've been following us for, we've always said kind of within 5 years payback period. But of course, now we've got more customers adopting in larger and larger numbers, how can it still be within 5 years? And the answer is the stations that we're building now continue to evolve and actually now probably -- well, maybe actually the evolutions are now more on a sort of a micro level and the macro levels, which we did, which we're increasing numbers of dispensers from 4 to 6 and up to now 12 to 14. We've got additional compressors. We've got additional backup on our stations, basically continuously evolving to be able to make sure we offer the best experience to our customers with the most reliability and the most future-proof sites. So over time, our station size has increased, the cost of the stations has increased, but also the capacity of the station has increased. So yes, so the 5 years of payback is still there, but the cash flow generation to get to -- as you move up to from 3, 4, 5 years is much, much larger now. And then, of course, for the many 5, 10, 15, 20 years afterwards, you continue to operate the station, your cash flows you're able to generate are much, much higher, too. So that's really where the evolution has taken us. And yes, so within 5 years, it is still obviously very, very good for what fairly expensive piece of infrastructure, but excellent energy dispensing vectors.

All right. Then we'll go to the next question, which is about tax losses. I can probably answer this one fairly quickly here. But given past losses, do you have a tax loss carryforward that will improve your after-tax earnings in the future?

I can take that one, yes. So yes, we do. It's actually a really good question. We are doing some work on it right now just to get the right figures to be able to bring these through. Part of the benefit of the transaction we've done is we're now able to take the losses from the CNG Fuels level that we've generated historically as well as all of the capital allowances that we have generated within the station portfolio, which have been very substantial because of low carbon infrastructure, some of them fell into the super deduction category. And we can now bring those up and use them across the entire group. So we can start putting those towards the profitability we're currently seeing already. And absolutely, that's going to base valuations and earnings going forward.

Thank you. Is there anything -- all right. Next question. Is there anything different about 6x2s compared to 4x2s that may constrain the growth of adoption? So I'll give that one a go. First of all, let's talk about production capacity. The 4x2s have been in production and have been in coming out of the factories for many years. So there, I think we can just ignore that there are production constraints. As for the 6x2, from what we've been told by the manufacturers, we do not expect there to be constraints there either. We've been told that collectively, between IVECO and Scania, they can produce into the thousands initially. Now if the 6x2 takes off the way we expect it will and hope it will over the coming years, then of course, they will ramp up that capacity or so we've been told. So we don't expect that to be a constraint. The other question is, of course, a potential fuel range. The 6x2 has less tank capacity on it. Therefore, the operational range is less on 1 fill compared to a 4x2. That said, the 6x2s that have now been released by both IVECO and Scania are providing an operational range, which is seen as more than adequate by pretty much all of the fleets that we're currently working with. So whilst that was a constraint on some of the early 6x2 models that were brought out a while back, we do not see that as a constraint going forward. As such, no, we believe the 6x2 products that are now being launched by both manufacturers has the ability here to pretty much without constraints, penetrate the market and provide us with the adoption that we're hoping for. And then there's one more here, which is probably a bit related to the one above. How is the acceptance of biofuel engines progressing versus diesel and cost differential? So if we then look at a CNG truck versus a diesel truck, there is still a cost premium. That cost premium varies, of course, depending on the customer, depending on how eager the truck manufacturer is to sell to that customer, depending on the customers' purchasing power and so on and so forth. What we are seeing is that the differential between diesel and CNG continues to narrow. It's still there, absolutely. So the CNG truck is more expensive than a diesel truck, but it is narrowing over time. But I mean, it's not a straight line where you can just extrapolate it out in time. Because as I say, it does depend on how keen are the truck manufacturers to sell to a specific customer, what is the purchasing power of that customer, what is the specific model, additional bells and whistles, the specifications they need. So it's hard to do an apple-to-apple comparison. But in general, we're seeing that cost spread narrow. Then we've got a couple of others here, which is probably on the 6x2 as well, actually. What is the feedback from customers on 6x2 vehicles and other production constraints? Production constraints I just talked about, where we don't see any short- to medium-term constraints. And if the adoption here follows the path that we're expecting and hoping for going forward and based on feedback from customers, then we would expect -- fully expect the truck manufacturers to ramp up. There is absolutely no reason why they can't do that. If you then look at the feedback, I mean, the feedback has been tremendous. We are currently constrained by the amount of demo vehicles, 6x2 demo vehicles that are on the road. There are more being brought in at the moment by both IVECO and by Scania. There is a very, very long demo list waiting to go through. And I think from our perspective, I won't speak for the manufacturers, but from our perspective, we've never seen an interest of this scale in any CNG product any time during the life of this company. And you might say, well, hang on, 6x2 versus 4x2. Yes, but the 4x2s have also had an evolution, right? They started out with fairly small engines, then came a larger engine, they came an even larger engine, bigger tank packages. So there's been an evolution through that. But what we're seeing on 6x2 now is just it's outside of anything we've seen before. And now from us and the manufacturers perspective, it's about making sure that we get trucks on the road so we can get as many demo trucks running through customers as possible, so we then can start to see that result in orders. What competition -- here's another one, a different question. What competition are you seeing for CNG from HVO and electric? So first of all, I'll deal with electric first. We're not really seeing a lot of competition from electric. And that's not because electric is a bad solution, absolutely not. It is just that electric still needs time to mature, both on the truck side, you need -- there is currently a weight penalty on them, meaning you can carry less payload. You have an operational penalty. A fully-charged battery can maybe only take half the distance that the CNG and diesel truck can. It's the charge time. And then, of course, it's the cost, it's more expensive. And then it's the infrastructure. It's the fact you actually need the capacity to come off the grid in order to charge a truck. So all of these are complex solutions that take time to develop and take time to mature. And as such, electric for our main market, which is the long-haul articulated market isn't really a competition today. HVO is for sure. But there's more than enough space here for both solutions to coexist and to grow. So we today refuel 1.3%, 1.4% of the total articulated truck market in the U.K. HVO is bigger, refuels more trucks, but there is more than enough room for both to grow and for both to coexist and both are needed to decarbonize fleets going forward. So we don't really see that as strong competition. Sure, we have fleets that might 1 year go further down the HVO route and the next year, they might go further down the biomethane route. But in general, this is -- there's more than enough space here for both of us to continue to coexist and to grow. And then just a final question here before we probably round off, unless there are any more questions that come in, feel free to do so. Please can you tell us about feedstock availability and competition for biomethane. So I talked a bit about that previously. Whilst liquid biofuels, particularly HVO and biodiesel are typically competing with sustainable aviation fuel for the feedstock, for the used cooking oil and the tallow that is used primarily because those feedstock are used pretty much to produce both fuels. Sustainable aviation fuel is expected to have a higher tolerance to pay going forward. So there, there is definitely competition on feedstock and there is a limited pool from which the feedstock can be sourced. If you then look at biomethane, it's very different. If you look across Europe, there is no shortage whatsoever of waste feedstocks that could be used to produce biomethane. So we don't see any shortage of feedstocks for biomethane for probably decades to come. A lot of recent reports have been put out, European Biogas Association, the IEA and so on and so forth, where they're all basically supporting what I'm here saying that biomethane growth going forward is expected to be the strongest of all the biofuels because it's got access to such a deep pool of feedstocks. So that's important, of course, for us for a growing business, but it's very important for our customers. Because if you're a fleet operator, if you're a fleet director, and you've been tasked by the Board or shareholders or whatever it is to decarbonize your fleet by 2030, 2035, 2040. You want to know that you're going down a path where all of a sudden, the fuel supplier isn't going to tell you, hang on, I can't get hold of the fuel or the cost has doubled or tripled, which is the potential for biodiesel in the future. There, we are much more confident that biomethane is going to have a more stable trajectory with regards to pricing and availability over the coming decades. And with that, I think we will wrap it up. If there aren't any further questions in the next 10 seconds, then I think we will say thank you to all of you on this call. Thank you for tuning in live and for putting some good questions to us. And for those who watch it on catch-up, if there's any questions you want to ask to us directly, you will find our e-mail address is all over the place, so you can get in touch with Baden or myself. Feel free to do so. Some of you do. It's always good to hear from you. And yes, with that, I think we will just say thank you once again, and see you towards the end of August or very early in September.

Perfect. Philip, Baden, if I may just jump back in there. And thank you very much indeed for updating investors this morning. [Operator Instructions] On behalf of the management team of ReFuels, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That now concludes today's session. So good morning to you all.