SAF-Holland SE (SFQ) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Dear ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the SAF-Holland Q1 2023 Results Call. Today's presenters are CEO, Alexander Geis; and CFO, Frank Lorenz-Dietz. The presentation will be followed by a Q&A session. If you have a question, please use the chat tool on the left hand side of your screen. Your name and company will be repeated by the CEO or CFO in order to address your question. Should you not agree to that, please include a short comment in the chat tool before writing down your question. Mr. Geis, the floor is yours.

Thank you. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and a warm welcome from my side. This is Alexander Geis speaking and today we can report a record quarter. I will start with an overview of the group and the regions and later on, Frank, our new CFO, will give you much more insight into our financials. I also can inform you that we overcame the cyber attack quite good, our order books globally are heavily filled and the integration of Haldex is running excellent. So let's start with our Q1 2023 highlights on the next page, please. We achieved a strong sales increase of 29.9% year-over-year mainly driven by Americas and APAC regions plus Haldex having been consolidated for 5 weeks. Our organic growth came in with 10.8% plus. Due to the cyber attack, SAF-Holland lost roughly EUR 15 million in revenues during Q1 2023, but we expect to recover this during Q2, latest Q3 of this year. We also have seen strong aftermarket growth of 30% and this is also partly driven by the first consolidation of Haldex. As we reported before, Haldex was consolidated for the first time as of February 21 of this year and contributed roughly EUR 59.1 million to our sales in Q1 2023. Last but not least, as prereleased, we are assuming sales for full year '23 tending around the upper end of the guided range. And adjusted EBIT margin projection is unchanged between 7.5% to 8.5% for this year. So let's take a look to the main KPIs on the next page. Starting on the left side; EMEA increased by 14.6%, Americas with a huge increase of 48.9% and also APAC with a fantastic plus of 53.4%. Altogether, you can see that on the right side, group sales in Q1 '23 reached EUR 480.4 million with a strong adjusted EBIT margin of 9.0%. Our net working capital ratio was stable with 15.6% compared to Q1 of last year and our net operating free cash flow was a positive EUR 5.4 million. And the adjusted earnings per share reached record EUR 0.54 in the first quarter of this year. Next page, please. As I said before, Q1 2023 group sales includes 5 weeks so from February 21 of this year of Haldex reaching the EUR 480 million in sales, which is a 29.9% increase year-over-year. Adjusted for FX and M&A, we saw continued strong demand from customers for truck and trailer components. And as I said before, adjusted for FX and M&A effects, we increased organically 10.8%. On the next slide, you can see the split by regions and by business units and since Americas and APAC developed very strongly, we can see a more balanced sales split now. You can see that on the upper right side. This is the Q1 sales development for '23. Starting with EMEA now roughly with 50% finished share of our global sales, Americas with 40% and APAC with 10% or 11%. So a little bit of a swing towards Americas and APAC away from EMEA. If we take a look on the lower part of the page, you can see the split between the business units. This basically didn't change at all with trailer having 61% of total sales, truck 13% and the aftermarket at 26% of our total sales. If we now go to the next page, you can see our adjusted EBIT margin. And the 9% adjusted EBIT margin or EUR 43.4 million absolute is a good result for our first quarter of this year and shows that we can deliver what we promised. 6.4% in Q1 2022 and now 9% in the first quarter of this year will give us a very good start into the full year with a good start. So all right, let's take a look how the different regions performed and I'm starting on the next page with the EMEA region. EMEA increased sales by 14.6% from EUR 208 million last year to now EUR 238.8 million with EUR 19 million coming from the Haldex side. Adjusted for exchange rate effects and changes in the scope of consolidation, sales were up 0.7% year-on-year. So coming from a record sales of 2022, also very high level in the first quarter of this year. Without the cyber attack, EMEA could have come in even better. But as we reported, basically most of the sales last week of March or the last week of the first quarter was missing. Nevertheless, facilities are fully booked and worked 24/6. At the moment we have good orders, new orders, existing orders and we really have been trying to overcome the backlog caused by the cyber attack. Let's take a look to the EBIT on the next page. Also in EMEA here, strong increase from last year's Q1 only with 4.9% to now 7.9%. The trend is going into the right direction and I'm very confident that we can get even better soon. Speaking of the next region, which is Americas on the next page, please. And here well, what can I say other than I'm very proud of our team. You can see that we increased our sales from EUR 127 million to EUR 189 million, which is an increase of 48.9%. Higher market shares in truck, trailer and the aftermarket plus the launch of more products and the successful ramp-up of our production capacities helped to increase and to boost the sales. On the right side, you can see the Americas region saw growth and this is a heavy growth because on the Haldex side, most of the sales is also coming from the Americas side so this helped also to increase our sales. On an organic basis, SAF-Holland increased sales in the region by 17.4% and overall Haldex, as I mentioned before, quite strong in that region contributed EUR 34.4 million to our sales in the Americas region. And finally, I have to say due to our strong position, SAF-Holland also benefited from the trend towards the disc brake axle systems and we are now ramping up our production and assembly capabilities for air disc brakes in our Haldex Monterrey, Mexico plant. Air disc brakes in North America is growing. We are the market leader in air disc brake and we would like to get a much bigger share here. And I also can say that we won the first air disc brake tender of a North American truck manufacturer kicking in soon. Speaking of margins on the next slide. With 10% adjusted EBIT margin, the Americas region nearly doubled its adjusted EBIT in the first quarter and the strong improvement in earnings was primarily a result of the operating leverage due to the strong sales growth. So our hard work of reorganizing and restructuring pays off now as the good work of the team I have to say. Last but not least, speaking of our APAC region. So in the APAC region, the strong growth was driven by demand in India, Australia and Southeast Asia. So sales increased by 53.4% to now EUR 52.5 million in the first quarter of this year. The strong growth in the APAC region was again driven by the strong development in India so the biggest sales portion of the APAC region. The customer demand also remained solid in the specialty market of Australia and Southeast East Asia; for instance in Indonesia, Malaysia and some other countries. APAC, Haldex had a EUR 5.5 million share in net sales and our China business I can also say that grew export related as well as a new local OEM business, which we won in the first quarter and also we see better sales in the second quarter and there is enough room for further sales increase. So speaking of the profitability of APAC, we have seen last year's strong 10.1% and this could further be increased to now 10.6% or EUR 5.6 million absolute. Economies of scale from the higher business volume helped in India and also the product mix was supportive. We got new highly profitable business in the mining sector in Southeast Asia, we talked on that earlier, and so also the improvement in the operating performance in China. So having said that, I would like to pause here and hand over to Frank for the financials.

Thanks, Alex. So Frank Lorenz speaking, CFO of SAF-Holland since 1st of January, and I will give you some more insights about the financials. Next page, please. Starting with the reported EBIT. The reported EBIT has grown by 85% or EUR 17.8 million versus previous year. It is leading now to an EBIT margin of 8.1%. Adding the PPA adjustments basically on the same level like previous year is EUR 2.3 million. Here I'd like to highlight that we did not consider so far any PPA impact from the Haldex transaction. We are still in the alignment with the Otis company and we assume to bring this number into the P&L with half year figures. I will give you later some more detail about our PPA assumption. In addition, then adds the restructuring and transaction costs. In our case it's transaction cost basically, EUR 2.2 million considering EUR 1.5 million as already shown in the Capital Markets Day for the Haldex integration and we also considered already EUR 400,000 related to the recent cyber attack. Adjusting those 2 numbers, we come to an adjusted EBIT of EUR 43.36 million, what is 9% of sales and 2.6% better than previous year as Alex has presented already before. On the next page, we see the development of the earnings per share. Starting with the reported EBIT EUR 38.8 million. Then deducting our financial results. This financial result has decreased versus previous year on 1 hand due to the financing of the Haldex transaction. Another million coming from the carryforward of a repayment of our term loan of EUR 97 million we paid back in March and the remaining portion is related to the increased overall interest rate situation from this [ order book ]. Deducting this, we come to a result before tax of EUR 28.6 million. Deducting our taxes with 38.8% (sic) [ 31.8% ] or EUR 9.1 million. We see a result for the period of EUR 19.5 million, what is almost 50% higher than previous year. This tabulated into earnings per share leading to EUR 0.43 earnings per share. Based on the reported EBIT and based on the adjusted numbers, it's I would say a record number for the quarter of EUR 0.45 adjusted earnings per share. Next page talking about equity ratio. The historical equity ratio of SAF-Holland was always close to or higher than 30%. In year-end 2022 we reported 29.5%. Compared to this number, the absolute equity has improved by EUR 8.4 million already considering negative currency effect of EUR 11.2 million. The expansion in total assets resulting from the first-time inclusion of Haldex, however, caused the equity ratio to decline to 27.2% from 29.5% at end of 2022. We still feel comfortable with this equity ratio that is still close to 30%. Now coming to net working capital. Starting again highlighting the really, I would say, impressive or record low number end of 2022 that was achieved by really strong net working capital management and very good operational results. Now in end of March we see a 15.6% net working capital ratio overall. SAF-Holland on a stand-alone basis is included here with 12.4%, what is still really good and low net working capital number and showing only a very small increase against the end of 2022 numbers. Typically we see some increase in the first quarter coming from seasonality and linked to the sales development and the main increase you see is coming due to the consolidation of Haldex, which has a significantly higher net working capital ratio around the 20% mark. For better comparability, net working capital of sales calculation takes into account Haldex contribution to sales on a pro forma basis as well for the last 12 months as Haldex contribution to net working capital is also fully included. I will continue with the operating and the net free cash flow. The net free cash flow from operating activities has grown by EUR 17.3 million from minus EUR 5.2 million in the first quarter of 2022 to EUR 12.1 million now first quarter 2023. This sharp increase was driven above all by the development of the cash flow before changes in net working capital, which rose to EUR 42.2 million compared to first quarter last year, EUR 26.1 million. The increase was mainly due to higher earnings before taxes, higher finance expenses resulting from the Haldex financing and higher depreciation and amortization did not affect the calculation of this operating cash flow. Deducting our investments, we come to the net free cash flow from operating activities. This also has increased by EUR 15.4 million from minus EUR 10 million in the previous year to EUR 5.4 million positive in 2023. Payments for investments in property, plant, equipment and intangible assets increased to EUR 7.3 million from EUR 5.3 million in the Q1 last year. This is all to prepare our planned future growth we have already presented in previous meetings. The sale of property, smaller number of plant and equipment generated a cash inflow to SAF-Holland of EUR 600,000 against EUR 500,000 in the Q1 2022. The historical numbers you see also in the footnote are not considering here any Haldex activities. Now I think for investors more interesting the return on capital employed. In Q1 2023 the ROCE was 16.5% so significantly up due to lower financial liabilities and increased EBIT last 12-month view. For better comparability, the calculation includes the Haldex contribution to adjusted EBIT on a pro forma basis as well for the last 12 months as Haldex contribution to capital employed is also fully included. The increase in adjusted EBIT was driven by inclusion of Haldex on a pro forma basis as mentioned as well SAF-Holland's strong operating performance on a stand-alone basis. Our target for 2027 including Haldex remains with a ROCE higher or equal to 15%. Last, but not least, the leverage net debt to EBITDA including the pro forma EBITDA contribution of Haldex and the related debt, the net debt/EBITDA ratio amounted to 2.4x, down from the 31st of December value of 2.6x. 31st December stand-alone net debt to EBITDA ratio for SAF-Holland of 0.7x did not include additional debt due to the Haldex acquisition. The significant deleveraging in Q3 2022 and Q4 was the result of the strong operating free cash flow, which in turn was due to the improved working capital management. Our target for 2024 is a net debt to EBITDA ratio of 2.0x or lower. Now a small update related to the Haldex consolidation. As already communicated, next page, the first time consolidation of Haldex took place February 21, 2023 due to the delayed approval of the Polish antitrust authority. SAF-Holland rolled out its group accounting and valuation principles to Haldex and aligned its group accounting and reporting principles to those of the SAF-Holland Group. The total effect on consolidated financial statements of Haldex AB were approximately EUR 21 million for the year 2022 so in the line of the 6% to 8% of purchase price we communicated before and is only visible in Haldex AB consolidated financial statements. As you could see already on our Q1 financials, all of these adjustments have no impact on the future profitability and development of the business of the combined company. Some more detail about the PPA. Based on the current asset, the purchase price allocation for Haldex is expected to result in an increased goodwill around the upper end of EUR 30 million to EUR 70 million and additional PPA amortization of approximately EUR 11 million per annum. For 2023, we have an additional step-up in inventories and is expected to be EUR 5 million for this year. Having said this, I would hand back to Alex for the outlook.

Thank you, Frank. So ladies and gentlemen, how do we see the full year of 2023. On the left side, you can see EMEA slightly down with trailer to be expected minus 5%, trucks stable with only minus 1%. Also North America quite stable with a low minus 3% in trailer and trucks also with minus 1%. Brazil down in trailer minus 10% and trucks minus 15%. But nevertheless, we will outgrow the market. Whether the margin is going down a little bit or not, we won some tenders. Production is filled. So we should be able to outgrow the market anyhow. China with a plus of 15% both in trailer and trucks and we see orders coming in. I mentioned before that we got some bigger orders from local OEMs. And India with a further plus of 17% in trailer and 14% in trucks. Here the friendly reminder that we have roughly a 60% market share in trailer axles and suspensions and we see that we get orders like hell. We increased our production capabilities. We moved in January of this year into a new plant. We increased 50% our capacity. We are already sold out until end of the year. So we are further increasing and further upgrade will kick in in August, latest September of this year. So India is moving I can report on this. So those numbers are not surprising to us and therefore, we want to stay cautious for the remainder of the year and this is what we also guide. On the next slide, you can see that based on the current estimates, we are assuming group sales for fiscal year 2023 trending around the upper end of the previously planned sales range of EUR 1.8 billion to EUR 1.95 billion. So I repeat around the upper, could be little bit lower, could be little bit higher of the higher range of the EUR 1.95 billion. SAF-Holland continues to expect an adjusted EBIT margin including Haldex in the range of 7.5% to 8.5%. And for fiscal year 2023, including Haldex, the group plans expenditures or CapEx for investments for up to 3% of group sales with a special focus on expanding production capacities in Mexico. So we are going to move into a new plant just across the border later this year. Also increased capacity in Brazil and India I elaborated on already. So in the EMEA region, the group is significantly expanding capacity for the production of disc brake axle systems or air disc brakes and for the new generation of trailer EBS. In addition, further investments are planned in automation projects, process efficiency improvements in production mainly in the core markets in Germany and North America, which will help to increase profitability also midterm. So most of the CapEx is now coming in Q2, but also Q3. We ordered machines and everything and we're able to upgrade our capacities in the course of 2023. So everybody, thanks for listening to us. We are open for questions now. Thank you.

We have already a question from Roland Konen to elaborate on the allowance of current assets in the cash flow statement of EUR 5.8 million and also to give some more detail to the CapEx ratio in Q1 that was only 1.5%. I would take this directly. Due to the cyber attack and some, I would say, temporary increase in inventories linked to the cyber attack, we increased the allowance of current assets. So the cyber attack as well as some reevaluation of small amounts of inventories. So overall, there should be growth mostly once we recover the revenues in the next month and we get more clearance on that. CapEx ratio, our guidance of 3% of sales remains unchanged. But as normal in the third quarter, the CapEx spending starts in the seasonality on a lower level. We do see some projects that we have to invest for the increased capacity like air disc brake and our future growth, but it will remain below the 3% of sales for sure. And the second question, I think it's as well from Roland Konen. How many years do you expect to have to make the PPA writedowns for Haldex of approximately EUR 11 million per year? This is not single answer for you. There are different issues considered like customer connection and so on and so. I would assume the different positions between 10 and 20 years, but going down over time.

Okay. I'm going to take the next question, which is coming from [indiscernible]. We understand your guidance is based on market data shown on Slide 25, some sources appear rather dated November '22 or Jan '23 and cannot incorporate the substantially better-than-expected Q1 market performance yet. What makes you reluctant to eliminate outdated forecasts from the market data consensus on Slide 25. Your closest peer seems to emphasize more current data and OEM announcements leading to a significantly more positive market forecast especially for North America. As I said before, we would like to stay cautious. I am traveling all regions frequently every other week. I just came back from China and North America. Everybody is quite happy about the development. Most of our customers are booked until late summer, even end of the year. When we talk about specialty business in the trailer segment and we are 60% of sales in the trailer segment and 15%, as I explained before, in truck. Markets are quite bullish, but we heard a lot that it might be the case second year the market is going down a little bit. So we want to stay cautious. We also would like to fully overcome the cyber attack, which started the last week in March and then into the first 2 weeks of April. We already finished April numbers now and are through with May nearly. It looks good. And as I said before, we are booked in most of our plants and worked very hard 24/6. But we are still very little bit reluctant to be overoptimistic and would like to stay cautious. That's the main reason. And maybe there's something to explain then when we release half year 1 or Q2, which will be in August. But until then, we would like to wait and see how the different markets develop all markets like North America, Brazil, China, India and also EMEA is the biggest one.

Okay. We have also a question from Youssef Lboukili. The next one related to the air disc brake development in the U.S. and also to the destocking in Europe in Q3 last year. I think the impact on the destocking we reported last year was mainly also related or partially related to the aftermarket where we said in the end of the year, customers have been cautious in building up big inventories. We see now also the opposite effect in a really good aftermarket growth on the one side and I would assume also -- not assume, it's obvious that in the Americas air disc brake, the technology becomes a bigger importance and we are very well positioned to participate in this market development.

And there is also the reason where I mentioned before that we already have an assembly line in the Haldex plant in Monterrey, Mexico for trailer air disc brakes. We are now upgrading this and extending to a second line with higher capacity. So we do the local assembly then and manufacturing in Mexico for the North American market, which is mainly the U.S., for both truck and for trailers. And once we have accomplished this, we also are targeting to get even higher share in the truck business, which is a little bit more profitable than the trailer business in that section.

Next question comes from Jorge Gonzalez related to our market outlook for EMEA and North America. As already mentioned before, we have good filled order book in both regions and we stick to the market assumptions we have seen before. Nothing more in detail about it.

Yes, maybe I can fill a little bit more into this EMEA. The order intake of the trailer manufacturer softened in the second quarter of this year, I can report on this. Nevertheless, the order book is still filled until summer time. There might be a slight decrease. This is what some of the trailer manufacturers tell to the market that there might be a small decrease in the second half or, let's say, in later Q3 and Q4. We will see if this is really happening. Other areas in EMEA, like Middle East and Africa are quite bullish at the moment, but not off the build rate of the course of Europe. North America, I have to say I traveled this year already 3 or 4 times to North America, will be back in June visiting all the Top 20 trailer manufacturers and the truck customers. They are happy, they are bullish. Well, but we have to see high inflation still existing in both regions. We have interest going up steadily in both regions that might have or that could cause a softening of order intake late Q3 or Q4. Now at the moment, we don't see it. But as I said before and I have to be repeat myself, we have to stay cautious on this. If something is changing and we are not, we will tell you in the Q2 report.

And next question from Jorge as well related to Haldex. On a pro forma basis internal, could you please give some detail on how internal sales of Haldex evolved in Q1? Were you already able to fit more Haldex products on your trailers in Q1? So to the first part, on a pro forma basis the internal sales is approximately EUR 15 million in the quarter. For the 7 weeks we consolidated Haldex now in our reported numbers, it's about EUR 7 million to EUR 8 million internal sales. And to the other part of your question related to the cross-selling activities and the synergy potential, we start to acquire the cross-selling business and we will bring this into our business in the next month, but I would assume for Q1 itself we did not see already the numbers.

Yes. It was not much. Basically I also reported on this earlier. The upgrade of the capacity in our plant in Budapest, start expanding Budapest or close to Budapest specifically for the trailer EBS. So we are here speaking with lot of smaller and medium-sized trailer manufacturers. They want to get more products, specifically the trailer EBS ones. Other smaller products we have to first ramp up production, which we are doing already, and then some more cross-selling will be taking place in Q2, 3 and 4. So at the moment, capacity is the limit..

Okay. We have no further questions so far. So question from Klaus Ringel. Can you elaborate the balance between lot sales from the cyber attack versus the contribution from Haldex for a full quarter versus just 5 weeks? So as mentioned already in our reports before, in Q1 the impact of the cyber attack was minus EUR 15 million in our reported numbers and the additional impact of Haldex consolidation was EUR 59 million. And if you take this EUR 59 million for 7 weeks, then for the full quarter, you can estimate a pro forma full year number based on that. Okay. Then the next question coming from Roland Konen. How high do you estimate the restructuring and integration cost for Haldex in 2023? In this regard, can you still confirm that these costs will be fully adjusted in the adjusted result, but the expected synergy effects of EUR 10 million to EUR 15 million will not do? Do you see yourself on track with the expected synergies? Okay. Yes, we confirm the numbers we have presented already on the Capital Market Day in January. So the onetime cost for the Haldex integration and we also confirm the reported synergies we are now on track in implementing. We do have monthly review meetings with all the regions and are fully on track in implementing what we have promised. And it was EUR 10 million to EUR 12 million to be correct in terms of your question of EUR 10 million to EUR 15 million. Okay. So next question from Miro Zuzak. What is the estimated financial result in the upcoming quarters with the new financing structure? As you have seen for the first quarter financing result of minus EUR 10 million taking out the portion of the carryover from our term loan from December and considered already the increased interest rates and the higher financing. I would assume that EUR 9 million to EUR 10 million is a good run rate for the financial result. Okay. If there are no more questions, our Investor Relations team is as always more than happy to support you in the coming days. You can directly access to them and discuss further details and questions as required.

There is another question coming in. This is do you expect net working capital to increase further over the course of this year? We have seen elevated net working capital needs in Q1 due to typical seasonality in sales growth, but the net working capital ratio of Haldex was very, very high from last year in the ballpark of 25% and there is a lot of material around. So what we are applying now and the cautious team of SAF-Holland start this already end of last year with monthly and also weekly meetings in the different regions to bring specifically the net working capital down of Haldex to a ballpark or they have a little bit higher vertical integration. But you heard from Frank before, we are at 12.4% on the SAF-Holland side given the really good excellent number. So if Haldex is coming down like 15%, 16%, 17% and we come in, in total gives us a lot of room to decrease the inventory specifically, but also work on the accounts payables. We also work a lot with consignment stock with our suppliers on longer payment terms. So what we really did is we if we have similar suppliers, we now apply the SAF-Holland payment terms, which are traditionally a little bit longer. This will help and also increase the share of suppliers with same stock. So this is a good thing for us and we will bring that down in this year, but also in the course of '24-'25, which then will free up additional cash.

And as a further question related to the estimated financial result. I was about to say this already before. Based on our activities in improving net working capital, we assume as well during the year to improve also our financing position or our overall debt. And the run rate, so the EUR 9 million we see Q1 as a run rate will slightly, I would assume, improve. There's a lot of potential to bring this to a run rate of EUR 7 million to EUR 9 million for the remaining quarters.

Well, there's a question from -- could you give us the name and what we cannot achieve in Q1 making you more conservative for your EBIT margin for the rest of the year compared to 9%. Well, we report on the strong 9% for this year. Our guidance, we did not change with a ballpark between 7.5% to 8.5%. Also here we would like to stay conservative, fully swallow the cyber attack, see also the future in Q3 and Q4. And then maybe if there is a possibility to increase that or be more optimistic, we will report on this in Q2. And the next question is coming from Jorge Gonzalez regarding the positive trend for disc brakes in North America. Could you please give us an estimate of the percentage of trailers that are now fitting disc brakes? And your current market share, how you expect it to evolve for the rest of the year and 2024? Well, I said that we see increased orders specifically from bigger fleets coming in. Those bigger fleets are the trend setters for the medium and smaller fleets. The share is at the moment between 15% to 20% of all trailers built is with air disc brake in the trailer segment. We will see a further increase, my estimate is that it will be at least 5% year-over-year increase over the next year 2025 and we go up. Drivers I can report on that. Speaking with a lot of fleets also, they understand that it's higher safety if they have trucks and trailers also equipped with air disc brake so the braking systems is much shorter and this is a benefit and everybody has driver shortages. So the fleets have to equip with good equipment to find good drivers and this will increase. So we are getting more and more demand coming from the trailer from the fleet and this is a fleet pull-through. So the fleet are going to the trailer manufacturers and specifically for air disc brakes in the trailer and our share is in the ballpark of 50% to 60% of all trailer axles being sold in that market equipped with air disc brakes. So 50% to 60%, we would like to defend that position and further increase. And this is why I said before that we are increasing now the capabilities of the air disc brake in production in Monterrey in Haldex before we ship all across the Atlantic. So Sweden or through the headquarter in Germany, we ship all the air disc brakes to our facilities in North America. Now we are producing in assembly already in Mexico for the North American market.

Okay. No more questions. Thanks for dialing in and listening to our presentation. And as mentioned already before, if you have any further questions, contact our Investor Relations team. And with this, I would like to close the call for today.

Yes. Thank you very much also for your trust in us. Talk to you soon. Thank you.