SoFi Technologies, Inc. (SOFI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. We are going to kick off. Next up, we have SoFi CEO, Anthony Noto. Anthony, thank you for joining us today. It's nice to be here with fellow Goldman alum and CEO of what has been a very disruptive fintech in the market. So thank you for joining us.

Thank you for having me.

All right. Let's kick it off. I mean, you have had a very impressive first half of the year. You significantly increased originations through your loan platform business. You've also been beginning to reintroduce your crypto platform. You've rolled out some stablecoin-based product initiatives around remittances and the core personal loan product in the lending segment is also growing very well. You completed a very significant capital raise in recent months. As you look out at the business, like what are your main strategic priorities from here over the next 12 to 18 months?

Sure. We're executing the same strategy that we laid out when I joined the company almost 8 years ago in 2018. Same mission, same strategy to be a one-stop shop for all your financial services needs. We want to help people reach the point that they have enough money to do what they want, that could be the career they want, the size family they want, where they live when they retire, et cetera. In order to get to that point, we have to help them with all of their financial decisions, all the big decisions and all the days in between. So we talk about internally and have been for the last 8 years about helping people spend better, save better, invest better and protect better. And we use those verbs purposely because the traditional constructs of financial services products aren't what we're solving for. We're solving for helping people spend less than they make, invest the rest, and so we have to be there for all the days that they're spending money and all the big decisions that they make. I couldn't be prouder to the fact that for the last 16 quarters we've delivered durable growth through 2 drivers: innovation and brand building. We have to be a trusted household brand name, and we have a world-class team in helping us build that. But we also have to help people save less than they make and invest the rest. And for the last 16 quarters, we've been able to deliver greater than a Rule of 40 for each individual quarter. If you look at each year since 2023, we've actually had over a Rule of 40 or Rule of 50. And so there's a couple of ways of driving it. First and foremost is we want to drive member growth of at least 30% and product growth of at least 30%. The monetization follows from there. In terms of specific areas of investment, we've announced a couple that we're really excited about. The first is SoFi Pay. The ability to use a product to pay anybody anywhere in the world is our long-term goal. It will start off with being able to send U.S. dollars to foreign countries through Bitcoin network and then into [ Fiat ] on the back end. Over time, we'll add to that SoFi stablecoin that will be part of SoFi Pay in many other parts of our business. In addition to that, we're rebuilding, as you mentioned, buy, sell and hold in cryptocurrency, and we're super excited about bringing that to our -- back to our members, which we had to get out of a couple of years ago. We did a survey 50% of our members would invest in cryptocurrencies if we offer them. More importantly, more than 60% of the people that we surveyed that were also nonmembers, want to do it with a licensed national bank, which, of course, we have. AI is another big area of investment, and that's already showing us really good cost savings on the operational side, but also the second order effects of the rate of growth that we have, account takeovers, AML resolution, dispute resolution and fraud capabilities. So AI is not just about driving growth and helping our members get their money right through things like cash coach, but also reducing our costs so we can reinvest in better prices, better interest rates, for our members. In addition to that, we launched SoFi Plus in January of 2025. And it's proven to be what we were really hoping for, a product that helps our members do more with us. And so it's a subscription product where we're giving them premium services and 90% of our new SoFi Plus members are existing members and 75% of them are taking out another product after they open SoFi Plus. So last night, we launched a new campaign with Josh Allen. Josh is the quarterback for the Buffalo Bills. He was the most valuable player in the National Football League last year. He helped us launch the campaign that SoFi Plus is the most valuable financial subscription product that you could have. So lots of areas of investment as it relates to the consumer side. We're also investing meaningfully in the tech platform side to drive that business and drive new adoption from new partners.

Got it. That makes sense. Maybe we'll just get the obligatory macro question out of the way. There's been a lot of focus on the health of the consumer, some of the recent job postings. Interest rates have come down, general market expectation is a rate cut this month. How are you thinking about the health of the consumer based on what you have seen year-to-date? And how do you think about the outlook?

We're seeing really strong consistent demand that's helped us drive the growth that we've been achieving last quarter. We had 44% revenue growth, 29% margins, really strong. Our outlook was very positive, and we've seen those trends continue in terms of the demand from the consumer. Credit is also performing well, and so we've seen no change there. Within the SoFi Money business, spending trends have been very positive, and we've seen really good activity on assets under management as it relates to our invest business. So I've seen no changes coming out of our guidance before and feel confident in the outlook we have. It's probably the most optimistic I've been in my 8 years at the company in terms of the growth of our current businesses and what they can produce and then layer on top of that, the initiatives that I mentioned that would be incremental over the next couple of years.

Yes. That makes sense. You mentioned a lot of the work that you've done on the brand side. You've invested a lot on the brand over time. It's more of a household name than some of the more niche players in the industry that are focused just more on pure-play lending. Where do you hope to position SoFi in the consumer's mind relative to some of the incumbent banking providers out there?

Sure. We want to build a lifetime relationship with our members. We call them members for a reason. We want to offer them all the products they need to get their money right and solve for that equation of spending less than they make and invest in the rest. So we have to have all those products. And we're the only company that I'm aware of digitally that offers 4 different types of loans in home loans, home equity loans, student loans, student loan refinancing, unsecured personal loans, offers and invest products. Even some of the larger competitors in the Invest business are not offering single stocks without commissions, fractional shares which we pioneered. SoFi ETFs uniquely built for our investor base for diversified investing, dollar cost averaging, robo accounts for those people that want to invest and have to think about how they're allocating their capital, IPOs, alternative assets and even private offerings, and we'll continue to add to that equation as well. So we're going after people with household income of $100,000 or more. People that have done well academically, have done well successfully, and they're not getting all the products and services from the big banks. One example I'd like to point out is our unsecured personal loan. It's starting to get a lot more attention from the investment community. It's been a great product for us. Why does that product exists? Well, my theory is that the reason why that product is not offered to people with 100,000 household income or higher as opposed to just the high net wealth individuals, is banks would much rather have that person using their credit card, and running up a revolving balance that pays a 25% interest rate. It's a complete crime to be offering that product to that person. And so our personal is uniquely benefiting from the banking industry, really taking advantage of their members. Try to get a home loan from your bank. You name the big bank, top 5 banks in the country, again, got to be a high net wealth individual to get access to that product. Otherwise, you're going to a mortgage lender only. We offer mortgages, not because we can make a lot of money because it's an important economic decision that people will make, probably the largest economic decision we'll make and the greatest emotional decision to make. We have to be there for all of those needs, and we don't want to be in a position where we can't offer a product that someone needs so they go to somebody else.

And so, I mean the company got to start with a lot more of these more lending-oriented relationships. The concentration in lending has come down over time. As you think about deepening relationships over time, like how do you measure the growth in what I'll kind of broadly call primary customer relationships? How do you measure it? What do you think are the products that can get SoFi top of mind kind of more frequently than the occasional loan product?

Over the last 2 years, our SoFi Money account has been a great driver of primary relationships. I think we offer 1 of the best accounts, the best of checking and savings in one. SoFi Money, you can get 3.8% interest if you do direct deposit with us, no fees, 2-day early paycheck, free certified financial planner at your -- whenever you need to set up an appointment for them, you set it up in the app, they call you right when you have that appointment. In addition to that, you can pay any way that you want. I think we're the only product where you can pay via Zelle because we're a bank. You can pay via phone number, you can pay via an e-mail address and you can also pay with self-serve wires and we'll continue to add to that, including a stablecoin by SoFi. And -- so we think we complete out that entire value proposition relative to other people. 90% of our deposits from direct deposit customers because we build that account to serve all their needs. Well, you need to do that in order to become a primary relationship. We'll offer a product sometime in the future that actually is even better than SoFi Money, that's another version of that, that adds even more value on top of what we're already doing with SoFi Money. So we're excited about that product. SoFi really is also proven to be a really good product and that people can connect all their accounts to 1 place at SoFi, all their credit cards, even if they're not SoFi credit cards, all their bank accounts, all their investment accounts. And they can see in 1 place everything they're spending, all of their income coming in, how their investments are doing. And that enablement allows us to build something like cash coach that looks across your entire financial picture, tells you how much cash you have everywhere and then gives you options and where you can allocate that cash. Sometimes it's paying off a credit card that has a revolving balance. Sometimes it's putting into an interest rate product like our SoFi savings account or investing in something like our robo accounts.

No, that makes sense. On the loan platform side, a new business over the last year or so, and you've invested a lot to get it to where it is. You've been growing really significantly over the last couple of quarters. I guess, can you talk a little bit about the customer experience when they go through this channel versus a regular SoFi customer? And maybe talk a little bit about how this platform kind of broadens out the addressable market of consumers.

Sure. For those that are not familiar, the loan platform business is when we build a relationship with someone that wants us to produce loans for them within a certain credit criteria, we get paid a fee for our origination platform, our marketing platform or servicing platform et cetera, all of which we built for our own business. At first, that business was really about volume in our credit box that was above and beyond what we would like to do from a risk perspective to allow us to serve more members. We do the servicing. They're a SoFi member, but that loan is somebody else's, and we simply get paid a fee for that. This most recent quarter, for the first time, we started doing some loans outside our credit box. Now those are loans that we wouldn't have otherwise underwritten that they've contractually taken at the point of origination, we have paid a fee for that. So it's capital-light, low risk, but it helps us reach more members and satisfy their needs and then build a relationship with them with other products and services. I think we're just scratching the surface and the opportunity. What we found is the more money that we spend to build awareness of the personal loan product, the more demand we would get. And at some point, that demand was more than we would want to put on our balance sheet itself. And so this other business allowed us to continue to tap into that demand. I really think we've hit a sort of a new vein of growth and that we're finding people that do have credit card debt beyond 30 days, they may be carrying it for 45 days or for 4 months or so they get their next bonus. While it's not that they're paying 25% interest on that balance with us, they can refinance at 12% or 13% that could term out as long as they want. There's no prepayment penalties. If rates go down, they could refinance, if they want to pay it off in 2 months, even though it's 2 years, they could do that as well. It's a great product. And so having these loan platform buyers allows us to keep building into that marketplace. I think we've just scratched the surface on what we can do. That's within our credit box. Outside our credit box, we declined more than $100 billion of loan applicants a year. And so now we're turning some of that into revenue and new relationships.

And maybe you can talk about that a little bit, just the opportunity to expand the SoFi customer base to borrowers that didn't historically meet the credit box on the way in the front door. What is your ability to market? Is the product set tailor made for that type of consumer?

One of the things we did back in 2018 when I joined was -- 1 of our top priorities was to improve the quality of our loans. And I think we've built a world-class underwriting engine and technology capability. But along with that, is also world-class marketing capabilities. It is really hard to find people that don't necessarily need money, but you could lower their cost of debt. So someone that may have $15,000 of credit card debt that they know they can pay off whenever they want to, but for whatever reason, they're keeping a revolving balance until the next thing happens. Well, that person is really hard to find because they're actually looking to refinance their debt. They can make the payments they need to make until they pay it off. So you have to find the right marketing channels. It's actually counterintuitive. The channels that have the highest customer acquisition costs are actually the best performing loans. And if you have the lowest customer acquisition costs are the worst performing loans. And so we've developed that marketing expertise to find the right people with the right profile. And so they've been coming all along, but we've declined them. Now we're able to actually satisfy some of their needs and gives us better efficiency in our marketing dollars, and we get paid for it.

No, I mean, that seems like a big opportunity to move into -- I mean, it is a less competitive part of the market. It's a place where a lot of the incumbent banks don't focus. How do you think about the monetization opportunity in the loan platform business kind of vis-a-vis the normal credit box? It sounds like it would be more revenue rich and more customer rich?

Yes. It's capital light. It's high revenue. It allows us to reinvest in the business. And then for that member, we want them to sign it for a certified financial planner. We want them to switch the SoFi Money account to switch to a SoFi investor account. If we can help them improve their credit score, lower their cost of debt, spend less than they make and starting -- getting them investing sooner, they'll get to their goals faster. You can't save your way to your financial goals. You have to invest. It's just not that possible to scale your savings just by getting 3% or 4% interest.

I guess what are you watching from the customers that come in through that channel for kind of ancillary product adoption.

Just like with the rest of our business, we want to answer 3 questions for them every day by using technology, having things like rely and having multiple products gives us intel to what they're doing with their money. So we want to use AI and other technologies to answer 3 questions for them proactively a day. What must you do in your financial life to stay, what could you do and what should you do? And those 3 questions. You can answer once you have a primary relationship with them.

Makes sense. I wanted to hit on the capital raise over the last month. You did a capital raise right after earnings. Could you talk about just why you raised capital? I think the guidance around balance sheet strategy has been for like single-digit growth in the balance sheet. So how do you view this capital? Is there any change in the balance sheet strategy? Is it for M&A? Is it opportunistic? Just how do you think about uses of proceeds?

Yes. It was a completely opportunistic decision. We have some debt that's high cost that we could refinance. In addition to that, there's some small M&A that we could do. 2 areas we're investing aggressively in are cryptocurrency and blockchain as well as AI. For the first time in the 8 years that I've been at SoFi, the venture capital community, the growth equity community is actually investing in second order effects of the growth of our business and fintech generally. If we scale deposits to almost $30 billion the way we've had over the last 8 years, scale our member base to close to 12 million members at the end of last quarter and driving a significant amount of spending, you also drive up fraud, you drive up account takeovers, you drive up disputes. And so what technologies can be deployed to bring those costs down. While there's a ton of AI companies that are being built just for those second order effects before we were the only ones investing in those. Now the entire investment community is doing that, and it gives us a great opportunity to maybe buy 1 or 2 of these small companies, put them into our tech platform business and then bring that to the masses in terms of all the other fintech companies and financial institutions. So this capital could allow us to do that as well. And having more capital for changing decisions down the road is also valuable. In terms of balance sheet, no changes in our balance sheet strategy whatsoever.

That's very clear. I was hoping you could talk about just the funding environment in general. The growth of loan platform is in part kind of helped by the growth of private credit industry, the amount of interest that there has been a kind of deploying capital into consumer assets. So I was wondering if you could talk a little about -- talk a little bit about SoFi's access to funding in the loan platform business. How do you think about the sustainability of the funding? And how do you think about where we are in kind of the overall funding cycle?

The first thing I'd say is we're -- we want to build durable revenue streams. We don't want flashes in the pan. We're picking partners that we know are able to sustain their asset management business that have the capital to continue to invest in this over time. And similarly, it took us this long to get to the point. We think you count on us delivering a great credit product time and time again. We've been doing it for 8 years. We've gone through 2 interest rate cycles. We've gone through a recession. We've gone through COVID. Our credit is well proven, and our underwriting capabilities are well proven. So that was an important step to get to. But also the scale that we can produce really matters, being able to produce $2 billion for a partner a year, $5 billion for another partner, that really matters. So our partners were picking. We're making sure they're durable partners that they have a sustained business over many decades, and it will continue into the future. It's been a great relationship, and we've had people renew their deals and it remains really positive.

Very good. You've mentioned crypto several times throughout this presentation. So I wanted to pivot to some of the new products that you have outside of lending. SoFi had to step away from the crypto space for regulatory reasons several years ago, you're reintroducing it now. Where are you in that journey today? You mentioned M&A could be an accelerant to that process. So how are you evaluating what needs to get done kind of internally and externally for that product to go live?

So for the last 16 quarters in the last 4 years, we've been able to deliver consistent Rule of 40 or higher in the low 50s to 60. This year will be 60 in addition to 2023, that was 62 and the mid-50s between those. That's before we've even gotten to considering the growth opportunity of crypto or AI. To me, there are both technology super cycles that we uniquely benefit from. Most companies, most sectors aren't benefiting from both of those super cycles the way that we are. And within crypto, there's a number of things that we'll do. But I would say, broadly, we're approaching it that it affects every part of our business, payment capabilities, lending capabilities, investing capabilities, tech platform capabilities. So the first thing that we'll launch before the end of the year is buy, sell or hold in crypto, which we used to have. In addition to that, we're working really hard on a stablecoin strategy. And it's actually complementary to the buy, sell and hold strategy as well as our payments in our tech platform business. As we build out buy, sell and hold crypto, we're interacting with marketplaces, with custody and clearing firms, settlement firms, et cetera. Those crypto centric companies, they don't deal in Fiat. They are going to -- and we are going to transmit economic value between us, the SoFi stablecoin. At first, we may use another stablecoin, but when we launch SoFi stablecoin, that will be the means of economic value transfer, which is faster, cheaper and more secure than the systems they have today in the traditional investing world. In addition to that, we think SoFi stablecoin will play a role in SoFi Pay. So we announced the ability to send Fiat dollars through the Bitcoin network into Fiat dollars internationally. SoFi stablecoin will provide that ability as well. SoFi stablecoin will also be an ability to use SoFi Pay to pay at retail and to motivate merchants to accept SoFi stablecoin because they don't have to pay interchange. And we may even be able to give them an economic incentive to accept SoFi stablecoin. Why? We have a bank. When we bring in and we develop SoFi stablecoin, and we have a dollar for dollar back stablecoin, we could deposit that in our Fed banking account, earn 4% that we can give away to all the participants to take our product versus someone else. Similarly, SoFi stablecoin will be used when we start tokenizing loans as the means of transferring payment. In addition to that, bring it to our tech platform partners where we have over 100 million accounts and convincing them to use that as a lower cost faster and safer way to transmit payments.

And I guess outside of the kind of the crypto ecosystems and the partners that you'll be working with, how do you think about driving adoption and kind of bringing some of these crypto solutions to other players in the ecosystem that haven't -- that are not as crypto forward to SoFi?

So 1 of the areas that has become more evident to us as an opportunity ties into our tech platform and having a bank. So we have a small, small, medium business today where we do lead generation for providers of SMB services like checking accounts, savings accounts and loans. A member comes, SoFi consumer member comes, applies for a loan, applies for a chain account, we give that qualified lead to a partner. We think there's an opportunity in what I would call corporate banking or business banking, going to the large e-commerce companies, so large online retailers and offering them Fiat and crypto banking services. Today, no 1 is offering at 1 bank Fiat and crypto banking services. And SoFi will endeavor to do that. It will take us a while to build it out, but there's a large unmet need from big consumer companies that are going to have to operate in both of these worlds. And in addition to that, there are crypto-centric companies that are in great need of having banking services for their companies, private companies like Paxos and Pitco and Talos and you name all the other companies, some of which have recently gone public. We want to offer them banking services in both Fiat and crypto. They don't want to operate in Fiat solely. And clearly, operating just in crypto is not realistic. And so that's another area that we'll be able to tap into. I also left out providing lending in a secured way backed by crypto assets.

Yes. That makes a lot of sense. You also mentioned tokenizing loans. Can you talk about some of the financial services plumbing. What is the problem that you're trying to solve? I think people have a good sense for the cost and the natural costs that you're trying to avoid in payments -- in a payments context, but could you help articulate the benefit of tokenizing real-world assets and financial assets like you're talking about.

Sure. We want to use our technology platform to tokenize any asset, but the first asset that they should tokenize is our loans. Why is that the case? Our loans provide a great ROA. I wish I could buy them myself. Obviously, there's a conflict of interest. I can't. But if I was a retail investor, I still couldn't buy the SoFi loans. It's not at the nominations that I could buy. There's a qualified investor profile, et cetera, et cetera. So how do we take those loans and make them available in other loans at $1 at a time or $2 at a time. We've seen the impact of tokenization of other assets as in the case of bitcoin and cryptocurrency. So this is a longer-term vision over time to be able to offer these assets that have not been accessible to retail investors, just like we're offering IPOs and alternative asset classes like private equity and private credit and private real estate and venture capital. So that's why we would tokenize the loans in addition to making a more liquid market for other buyers of our loans that are institutional investors.

Yes, makes sense. Just on the traditional investing side, you've highlighted already the -- how advanced the platform is in terms of offering kind of alternative asset classes to retail investors, 1 of the hardest asset classes to get access to -- for most retail investors. What are the key initiatives in the traditional -- in the SoFi Invest platform today that you are most focused on? And how do you think about kind of driving the brokerage platform to be higher top of mind for consumers and customers at SoFi?

Yes. We are attracting a very different investor than some of the competitive set in the fintech world. We're making investors. We're creating investors by helping them balance their budgets. They spend less than they make and invest the rest. And that's a very unique proposition. If you don't start investing during your 30s or 40s, there is no way you're going to make up for a lost 10 years of compounding from investing in your 20s. So getting them to invest $1 or $2 at a time makes a difference, and they get up the learning curve pretty quickly. One of the products that we haven't had in SoFi Invest that we've been working on and that we'll have by the end of the year as Level 1 options. Now you may say, why do you not have Level 1 options? Well, we haven't had it because our investors really -- it wasn't a product that was great for them. Well, 8 years later, they really want that product, and it's 1 that we've been building and we'll be able to bring to them. But we're not going to spend a lot of time on those, what I'd say, more corner cases of investing assets and investing capability. We're going to stick to more than mainstream asset classes along the way. Today, we do provide certified financial planners that can help them with their investing, and we could specialize that even further over time. The biggest opportunity we have for SoFi Invest is just awareness, making people aware that we're offering IPOs. We have 3 this week. We had 2 last week, making people aware that we have alternative asset classes that they typically haven't had access to, but now they do through interval funds. We offer KKR and Franklin Templeton and Arc Investments and a number of others that we just announced. And so that education process -- when you have as many products as we have, getting these things to the forefront are hard to do and using technology is a way to get there.

On the robo product, I mean, what kind of competitive advantage is having all these alternative asset classes. I mean, I've used them. I don't think there's much of an alternative allocation in those products that seems like a competitive advantage versus almost every other retail robo-adviser.

Yes. So our Robo-Advisor products are more driven by style of investing, aggressive, moderate and conservative as opposed to a specific asset class per se, then we execute that strategy for them as an automated process. The alternative asset classes, you can find them in our app, these are products that were typically only available to high net wealth individuals, just like IPOs, but offering IPOs at IPO prices is unique and getting access to some of these world-class alternative investors is really differentiated. And it helps bring investors to the table and see what else we have. And they realize, oh, there are 1 stop shop just for investing. I don't need to have 4 different investing accounts. I could do it all with SoFi. The big hole up till now is cryptocurrency, which hopefully will solve by the end of the year. I shouldn't say hopefully, we will have by the end of the year.

Well, maybe from there, we can talk about other product initiatives within the organization beyond crypto, stablecoins and remittances, what other products could we see SoFi launch over time?

You could see us be more aggressive on the offensive side of AI. Today, we just finished the POC on account takeover where we saw in the POC. It may not translate to the full deployment, a 60% improvement in account takeover resolution. We're right now testing with dispute resolution. AML/BSA is another area that's an opportunity. We've also launched with Sierra as a partner in our chat app on SoFi Money, solving problems with AI, which has shown really strong improvement in containment rates as opposed to abandonment rates. That's all on the cost side, but it also builds trust and it builds confidence in people and their ability to solve problems in real time. I mentioned before, we want to answer 3 questions for you every day must, should and could do. And cash coach is 1 example of that, but you can imagine us launching an expense that looks at all your expenses and does benchmarking versus others, your age, your income, your demographic and making suggestions view of how you get your expenses down. But in addition to that, we think there's a real opportunity to change the nature of how we deliver content to you today, the content in the app and most financial services company apps is all in words. There's no videos. There's no tutorials, there's no interaction. AI can help us translate these suggestions, these opportunities to you in a video format as if you're walking into a branch. And so I think there's a huge opportunity to create that level of interaction at the next stage to give people confidence in making these decisions.

No, that makes sense. Just switching gears to the tech platform business that kind of dovetails nicely. You've been talking about the constructive conversations you're having for the platform. You've got a pipeline of clients going live in 2026. What's sort of the latest on the outlook for that business?

Yes. No change. The opportunity set is still large, knocking it down and getting the deals done is still the work to be done. I think crypto activity is a new opportunity in AI is also a new opportunity. Some of that will be organic, some of that will be M&A. But the deals that we announced for next year in January were important wins for us, and we just recently launched 1 of those, and we have work to do on those. So that business has been, I think, through a couple of cycles, the winter of higher interest rates really caused banks -- financial institutions to pull back from technology spending. You now have crypto investments that people are making in AI investments. Those are new opportunities. And so we're continuing to build strong relationships and be there for when they're making decisions. But the most important element in that business is getting the third parties or counterparties or partners to make decisions on the investments they're going to make. And we need to see that come back in addition to building new products in crypto and AI that I mentioned.

So maybe to tie together the AI theme with the tech platform. We talked a lot about Agentic commerce in the industry. I know it's early days. It's hard to know where exactly things are headed, but you can imagine more demand for something like the tech platform from AI companies and people who want to drive card issuance for Agentic commerce purposes. What are the conversations like in your industry that you're having? And how do you see about that as an opportunity for SoFi?

I think those are conversations that are on the come for large financial institutions. I think they're more relevant for companies that have embedded finance that don't have the expertise. And there's different segments of the market. You have government, you have B2B, you have consumer embedded finance, you have big financial institutions. I think these conversations are actually more relevant for mid-market and small market banks and credit unions that can't afford to invest in crypto that can't afford to invest in AI and the other nonfinancial companies that are not even in this business.

Yes, makes sense. I want to hit on the regulatory environment. One of the major things of this new administration has been a deregulatory focus across numerous industries, including financial services. Could you just talk about kind of before and after how things have changed in your day to day from a regulatory perspective?

I think the environment obviously has changed. There's more decisiveness. There is clear path to getting to where you want to go. One of the things I think that's underappreciated by the market, most likely because we haven't said much about it is, we actually ended up with having the best possible license to operate in all these new areas. So when we first got our OCC banking license and got a bank holding company license from the Fed, it was not allowable to have cryptocurrency inside a bank, couldn't operate with stablecoins, bitcoin, buy, sell and hold, et cetera. It was viewed as potentially being permissible outside of the bank and the bank holding company, but even that got turned down as we saw and we had to exit that business. Today, you can actually do buy, sell and hold and stablecoins inside a bank. Well, guess who has a bank? SoFi. So the OCCs interpretive letters that came out in April were a windfall for us. We don't -- there's no license for us to go get. We actually have the best license. You'll see a bunch of crypto companies or crypto centric companies that offer stablecoins or that often buy, sell and hold apply for OCC licenses and they'll apply for nondepository insured trust, that will limit what they can do. It will not limit what we can do. We haven insured deposits as an OCC license bank. So it is a huge advantage. That's a benefit that we have in not only launching the businesses ourselves, but when we go and market our tech platform capabilities to consumer companies and nonfinancial institutions, we could say to them, this is going to be part of our bank as a service and will be under that regulatory regime or will be part of the bank holding company under the Fed regime. So the regulatory environment providing that clarity actually gives us a competitive advantage given the licenses that we have.

And just in terms of the amount of time you're speaking to or thinking about the regulatory apparatus that SoFi deals with on a day-to-day basis. I mean just the intensity of the oversight or the focus that the regulators have. Have you noticed a change there?

What I'd say is this, there's nothing that the regulatory examiners or the regulatory framework requires that we wouldn't be doing already. All of the requirements under our bank license and bank holding license are meant to serve 1 thing, safety and soundness of our institution for our members. And we're aligned with that interest. The amount of time we spend on it is the amount of time it takes to be the best at it, and that's our focus. We can have more exams or less exams. The standard is still the same. We have to have a bank that people trust. We have to have a place when they need to spend their money, they could spend their money. When they need to speak to somebody, they could speak to somebody. When they need a transaction, then that transaction is going to happen. We have to be a household brand name that they trust more than their best friend, their closest relative. And that requires more than what the regulatory environment is. It's a commitment and a culture to that, and we've built it. It's a huge moat that's around us, and that will serve us well over time.

Very good. Well, I think with that, we're just about out of time. But thanks so much for having the conversation with me. Thanks for attending the conference this year.

Thank you.