Subex Limited (532348) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Subex Limited Q2 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand over the floor to Mr. Pratik Jagtap from EY Investor team. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Pelsia. Good morning to everyone who have joined the earnings call for the quarter ended September 30, 2025. Now I would like to introduce the members of the management who are present for the call. Ms. Nisha Dutt, Managing Director and CEO; Mr. Sumit Kumar, CFO; Mr. Harsha Angeri, Head, Corporate Strategy and AI; and Ramu Akkili, Company Secretary and Compliance Officer. I would like to start the conference call by going through the safe harbor clause. The statements in this presentation concerning our future growth prospects are forward-looking statements, which involve several risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those in such forward-looking statements. These risks and uncertainties relating to these statements include, but are not limited to, fluctuations in earnings, our ability to successfully integrate acquisitions, competition in our areas of business, client concentration, liability for damages in our contracts, withdrawal of tax incentives, political instability, unauthorized use of our intellectual property and general economic conditions affecting our industry. So with this, I now hand over the call to Ms. Nisha Dutt to take it forward. Over to you, Nisha.

Thank you, Pratik. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our investor call. Thank you for joining us today as we share updates for quarter 2. Before I get into the Q2 update, I'd like to begin by addressing the Board level changes that took place following our last AGM. Our Chairman, who was retiring by rotation did not receive the requisite majority and consequently ceased to be a director. Following this, 2 other independent directors have also stepped down. We thank them for their valuable contributions and support during their tenure. My immediate focus right now is on reconstituting the Board. We intend to complete this process ahead of our Q3 results. More than simply filling out the position, my goal is to bring in leaders with right expertise, individuals that are aligned with our vision and capable of driving innovation and long-term value. So this may take a little bit of time, but we'll get there. I also want to assure you that our business fundamentals remain strong, and our strategic priorities are firmly on track. We are also in the midst of a broader reset at multiple levels. So we are doing a reset across the brand, at the Board level and at the management team level as well. We have recently onboarded a new sales head, and I'm also in the process of bringing in some legal and HR leadership. So this is the part of a larger reset. And I would say that most of the cleanup that I've been speaking about in our investor calls is behind us. But that said, a few legacy areas still require a deeper review. So some of these may call for some financial or structural corrections in the coming quarters to ensure that we rightsize the business and set a strong foundation for sustainable growth. Now coming to the Q2 results. I'm happy to share that for the first time since June 2022, we have achieved operational profitability. We are PAT positive without any exceptional items. So I would say that in the truest sense, we have returned to profitability this quarter, driven by operations and not onetime gain. And this is a key milestone in our journey, which strengthens our ability to reinvest in growth. This is something that we have been driving towards, as you are aware, from the beginning, I've been saying that we are trying to fix the fundamentals of the business, and I'm trying to put Subex back on a sustained trajectory. So for me, this is a big milestone actually. And our top line this quarter grew by approximately 4% over the previous quarter. EBITDA has been positive 6 of the 8 quarters. So I would say that -- sorry 7 of the 8 quarters, reflecting consistent and disciplined performance. Overall, our business remains strong. We are supported by a robust order book. In the last few months, we have announced deals worth USD 15 million that we announced to stock exchanges, and I think most of you got it. So we have renewed long-standing partnerships with our leading operators in APAC, Europe and over -- for 5 and 6 years, respectively. And we have also secured new engagements with a leading telco in Netherlands to deliver a unified platform for MVNO billing and wholesale partner settlement. We also won a major deal with leading APAC operator to upgrade and enhance their revenue assurance and fraud management capabilities through Subex's HyperSense platform, including AI use cases. So this should strengthen our revenue protection, improve fraud detection and unlock recurring value. Another significant win came from Middle East, where we'll upgrade an existing fraud management system through HyperSense. Again, we'll leverage AI to enhance operators' fraud management capabilities. So this, all in all, if you think about it, we have actually had good wins this quarter from, I would say, across the geographies. We had wins from Middle East, Europe, Africa. So it's been APAC, it's been quite nicely spread out for us. And that tells us that we are doing something right here. We have been building our order book quite strongly. So -- and from a thought leadership perspective as well, Subex has been recognized for the second consecutive year in Gartner's Magic Quadrant for AI in CSP operations. So this is an acknowledgment of our position as a trusted innovation partner to telco leaders worldwide. I think this is also notable specifically because we are one of the few product companies from India in this quadrant. And that really makes us proud because most of the other companies that you would find in the quadrant are more service companies. So we have some unique distinction here of being a product company. While we have maintained profitability, achieving consistent top line growth remains a challenge, and I'm aware of that. Our focus -- my focus going forward is to make sure that we deepen relationships within our existing accounts through new product offerings to expand our customer base in key markets. And this should help us get back on the top line growth curve, which we really definitely want to get back on. So as a part of this reset, like I said, we have strengthened our management team. I have appointed a new Head of Sales. He's based in Europe. He brings extensive international experience, strong sales leadership, deep domain expertise in telco and technology. So I'm hoping that he will really help us play a key role in driving the next phase of growth. So -- and as several of you have requested in past, we are planning to conduct our Investor Day in the next few weeks. So please keep an eye out for the announcement around it. And next, I'll just cover consolidated financial results for Q2. All numbers are in INR. Revenue for the quarter stood at INR 68.9 crores against INR 66.4 crores for the previous quarter. Normalized EBITDA for the quarter is at INR 7.3 crores against INR 4.3 crores for the previous quarter. Normalized PAT for the quarter is at INR 3.9 crores against INR 12.8 crores for the previous quarter. PAT for the quarter is at INR 2.8 crores as against INR 13 crores that included an exceptional item in the previous quarter. So thank you for listening. And as always, I'll brace for the real action now, your questions and comments. So I'll hand it back to you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from [ Sanjiv Ghai ], an individual investor.

Congratulations on positive PAT quarter. Really, we have seen this after a long time and great work there. My question is about the business outlook. I mean it's good to see that key orders -- big orders have won in this quarter. And how the business demand look like? Are we seeing a pickup in conversion? Are there any large transformation programs or customer wins in pipeline that could marginally impact FY '26 revenue? Another question is about any collaborations in AI ecosystem that could expand Subex addressable market? Are you looking or planning or already in some collaborations which should help Subex increase the market?

So on your question in terms of deal conversion, we are definitely seeing a much faster clip than I saw last year, and I would say a few previous quarters. So definitely, this has been a good quarter for us. In terms of deal conversion, what we are seeing truly is that there are geographies that have become a little bit more agile and I would say faster for us. But there are still 1 or 2 geographies which are slow. And what that means by that I mean that I might have an order win that I'm sitting on, but I don't have a PO from them even after a few quarters have passed. So there are some geographies that are really slow. So I'm hoping that they also pick up and then we are able to come back and announce a few more deals. But overall, if I think about it, I think it has been -- I'm seeing some better conversions this year, definitely. But yes, one or two geographies continue to trouble us. In terms of your question on AI, I think we don't have a specific collaboration. What we do is we typically work with our customers on POCs, and we collaborate directly with them. We do have data partners, but we don't have specific collabs in that sense. We are working across LLMs and AI, and we do both cloud-based and on-prem. So -- and we work on specific use cases with the customers, which I've spoken about earlier also. So we have 2 customers in North America. We have one in actually Middle East that we are working with. So there is quite a bit of customers that we are working directly with, but no specific collabs.

Sure. And so this Q1, I mean as we got the positive PAT after long time. So is it going to be like a one-off quarter or are we seeing going forward, we'll be having at least a positive PAT I mean I'm not asking about how much it will be increasing, how about you will be maintaining this trend?

So definitely, the effort is to maintain the trend now, see, because we got to this after a lot of -- like I've been telling my team in the last certain years, we are here now, so we want to keep it and sustain from here on. And I don't want to make it about onetime gains and all that. The quantum of it and so our effort at least this management team is 100% going to be to make sure that we keep the momentum right now. So that's what -- because if you really think about it, it will be a lot of cleanup. Some of the big burn businesses like Sectrio are not there with us anymore. So we have gotten here. And I don't necessarily foresee anything major right now. But again, it remains to be seen. But effort is definitely going to see that we keep this momentum now.

And my last question is about can you clarify on your strategy around M&A? I mean are you actively looking for any M&A right now?

M&A, again, I mean, we are not actively honestly in market. The one effort that we want to definitely make is, and I've said that in past as well that we do want to make sure that we can get some stabilization to our cap table. So that's some effort that we will make. But other than that, we are not actively pursuing any M&A opportunities.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Abhishek Kale, an individual investor.

Nisha, first question in the AGM, I had specifically asked for a clarification from the then Chairman, Mr. Anil Singhvi, regarding the insider trading. If we would want -- if I, as a shareholder, would like to get that investigated, can we do that? And what would be the procedure for that? Because that question was specifically left unanswered.

That is correct. The way it works, my understanding, Abhishek, is that the way you can get insider trading investigated if that's what you kind of have any suspicion around would be that you would have to write to us because typically, what happens is that -- I'm not sure, but we don't take cognizance of it on a call. We typically you would have to put it in writing somewhere so that we can then take it up and I'm correct, right, Ramu?

Yes.

Okay. I'm checking with Ramu as I also answer this question. So -- but my understanding is that once you put it in writing, then we will take the steps to investigate it the way we need to. I think there are some processes around it. And we'll do the due course investigation, whatever is required, and we'll take it up. But I think we can't take cognizance of it on a call typically. We need to see it written somewhere. You have to almost like officially complaint, I think, to Audit Committee. My understanding is it has to be written to Audit Committee.

Understood. If needed, I'll do so. Second, a follow-up on that. We are talking about a cleanup, right? We are -- I think if I understand correctly, we are mostly through with the cleanup, as you said. Now this legacy issue of insider trading and what steps would the management do or what policies would they enforce to ensure that such a thing doesn't happen in the future because the disclosures that happened during the whole HyperSense and the licensing to subscription transition were horrendous? We got to know about those in the con call at the time of results, wherein insiders had this information, and they made a clean exit. So what we would want as shareholders, if you are talking about transparency, right, we would like this -- these are very price-sensitive information. And if the insiders are taking an action on it, I mean, the whole credibility of the organization goes for a toss. Now that you are heading the organization, how can we ensure that we have -- we send a strong message to the insiders that enough is enough. And if this happens, the XYZ action would be initiated type of -- how can that matter?

Yes, Abhishek, let me answer to your query. We have code of conduct internally. One has to follow the code of conduct. At the same time, if there is any UPSI, we have the trading window closure practices, which we have been following strictly. If there are any trades that we will catch it and we'll inform to SEBI. For the past, we have not seen such a type of trading by the insiders. The one which you are saying, I don't know about it. If somebody says about it, we'll look into it for the past matter.

Abhishek, typically, we do have an STD process where we don't make any PR or announcements unless it's at a certain level of maturity and it's strictly controlled. So we don't announce any deals internally as well or any -- we actually don't have anyone before we tell the stock exchanges. So it's very strictly controlled. I know, we are doing all the process. So your allegation is it probably happened despite that. So my point is that we are following all the process actually internally. But at any point of time, if you think that there is something that we could do to strengthen or if you have any questions because I'm seeing you raise this for the second time, I would say that...

No, third time, third time, This is the third time I'm raising this on a call, but I have not sent an e-mail to Ramu or the right group to have this checked. Sorry to say, Nisha, but I was specifically referring to not the deals portion of it, but on the things which are not working out. I mean we launched a new product. There was a huge buildup. And then as we all understand, some things did not work out. But then we got to know when everybody has made a clean exit and the shareholders got to know it from when on at the time of con call, right? And it happened with the licensing to subscription as well. I mean these were the shockers that we got after the fact, wherein everybody inside the company knew that this was coming, and they had a clean exit. And not -- I'm talking specifically about the key management personnel and I named that the one who were the keys and the previous CFO as well has made a clean exit. And the list, I'll go on...

Thank you, Abhishek. We have the policies strictly in force. So we'll -- everybody is operated by that policy.

Perfect. Then if you guys can assure that we have -- we are going to make sure that these policies will be enforced, then I'll keep a tab on how things are going on. But I mean, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that everything goes as per plan. Okay. Now coming to the business end of the questions. What's our product road map for the next 2 years? Nisha, if you can?

Our product road map, actually, we will be -- in fact, when we do the Investor Day, we'll share a lot of product road map with you. We'll share it for every product. But broadly speaking, if I were to explain it in a broader sense, we are trying to make -- what I wouldn't say trying to make, but we have made the AI pivot. So what we are doing is we are making it all GenAI native. All the products will be GenAI native right now. So how do we make it? Obviously, every product is going to be a little different. Like assurance is different from fraud management, which is different from our billing system. So we are seeing what are the opportunities to make it GenAI native, more lighter version of products that don't have to go hand-in-hand with very heavy implementation cycles. So we are also rethinking our product suite in that sense. How do you build lighter and how do you deploy lighter? So in terms of product road map, that's where we are headed broadly, but we'll happily share detailed product road maps with you when we do the Investor Day.

Perfect. Two questions, if I may squeeze in one extra. The write-off we took for Sectrio, any updates on that? Where are we on that?

So on Sectrio, what we are doing is, like I said earlier, the write-offs that we had taken or I would say, the provision that we had made, we are pursuing that. I don't have honestly any update to give there in the sense that I can't say that we have recovered the money yet, but we are pursuing it aggressively in all forms, I would say, all means available to us right now to go and see what we can recover. So all the efforts are on very aware that, that needs to be recovered. So we are taking all resources, including legal where available.

Okay. And one forward-looking statement, if you can give us the magic number of INR 100 crores top line for the quarter. When do you see a likelihood of that happening?

INR 100 crores. This has been on my -- this has been my internal push as well to all my teams that I really truly, truly do want to see a INR 100 crores quarter. It's not just an aspirational thing. When can we get there? Honestly, if I knew it, I would tell you. But there is a strong push, Abhishek. Internally also, there is a strong push. All of us are pushing towards it. Our order intake last year was a little lukewarm. So that's kind of what's reflecting in our top line numbers this year because a lot of our business is backlog based, right? So hopefully, I'm thinking that since this year, we have a more robust order book, we might be able to do something hopefully next year.

Great. And Nisha, one last question. How much...

I'm sorry to interrupt, sir. Mr. Abhishek...

Okay, I'll join back the queue.

The next question comes from Mahesh Kumar, an individual investor.

My first question is, what is the order book as on 1st November? And what is the order funnel? Second question is in Q1 investor call up to financial year '24, '25, you have mentioned that you have invested in PrivaSapien, which is basically data protection and privacy related to AI. So what is the intention of Subex investing in that company? And are you going to integrate their technology into Subex product for telecom market?

Okay. So in terms of order book, Mahesh, I can't -- as you can imagine, I can't disclose order book because this call is picked up -- this is a public call, right? It's picked up not just by shareholders, it's also picked up by competition.

But generally all companies disclose the order funnel and what is the order book as on...

So I already reported all the material orders have been reported. To the extent of USD 15 million we have reported, obviously, the order book is larger. But at least so wherever it's material or needs to be disclosed, we have been disclosing it, Mahesh. In terms of order funnel, I believe -- I continue to believe that this year, we have seen an actual uptick, like I said earlier as well. So order funnel continues to be strong actually this year.

See what happens, if you disclose all these information, then we get idea what is happening in the company. See, ultimately, what matters is the money in bank account, whether your product is great, you are in the Magic Quadrant and all that, that is immaterial.

Which I think is good, you would agree, right, if we have INR 135 crores in bank right now. So I think we have strong liquidity position, zero debt...

That you are saying you are going to do some cleanup. So that some money of that will evaporate now. Just now you mention, some cleanup will be done.

Yes, yes. I mean I don't -- I mean whatever will happen, it's not cash related. You will not see the evaporation of cash, that I can tell you. Unless we make investment...

Why am I asking, see, all BSE or NSE listed companies, if you take Intellect Design, they give order book as well as they give order funnel, same is with the start-up companies listed in Australian Stock Exchange as well as American Stock Exchange. Are you saying that they are not afraid of their competitors? See, order book uses idea, what is outcome of work done by your team? And order funnel tells us what is the road map of your team to get -- capture the market. Unless this information is given, we are actually totally blank.

Okay. Let me...

See, I have given you at least 5, 6 presentations, which are listed on the Indian stock exchanges also on global stock exchanges, where they are disclosing. If you see Intellect Design Arena presentation, that is the best presentation in India. And he told, again, I will reach 30% net profit margin we had reached. See, that is what is required, getting orders is okay. That is your announced just after AGM. But I have been requesting this order book and order funnel for the last 3 years.

Okay, Mahesh, what we will do is, Mahesh, we will -- so if you see our investor deck is actually enriched now and gives additional information. And regarding your request about the order book, the current status, so...

Order book and order funnel.

Order funnel, both we will look into that. This answer, I am getting for last 8, 9 quarters, we will look into. And see, SEBI has not prohibited you from doing all these things, neither exchanges.

No, no, I never actually said that SEBI. So this I don't consider as forward-looking. This is more sensitive to me from a competitors point of view because when I give you order funnel and things like that, see, this is a small market that we are in, Mahesh. The truth is that this market that we are serving, we are working in a duopoly situation. So we are there and there is one big competitor. And then everyone else is a distant third, fourth right? So -- and they are all unlisted. We are under no obligation -- see, my competition is all unlisted. They are all private. They are under no obligation to disclose anything. And we are in a tough market right now. So anything that I -- it's not to keep it away from you. My point is that anything that I say it's very easy for somebody to extrapolate what orders or what deals I'm changing right now. And hence, there will be a price to maintain some confidentiality around this. It's not to necessarily keep information from you. And that's why I've been saying. I have always been very transparent even in the past when the order book was new form, I came back and said that it was new forms. Now I'm telling you it's robust. That's because it's actually picked up. I've always been transparent to that extent. But to actually talk about specific numbers, it's almost like we work on a backlog basis, right? If I give you the order book, anybody can then tomorrow stand there and calculate what I'm going to tell you in future. It's that sensitive. And that's why I like to keep some confidentiality around it. I hope you understand that's what we are trying to not to keep information away, but we need to be sensitive for the market that we are working in.

So you can share the outcome of the work in some other way also.

We are actually sharing, right? I mean all the significant deals we have announced actually. So wherever we -- I feel that you need to know, we do announce in fact. We took the feedback from shareholders.

Last investor call, you have done some announcement. I'm not disagreeing that, so that announcement you have done.

Correct. Yes.

So on that front, there is improvement.

Okay. So maybe I can answer your PrivaSapien question because -- on PrivaSapien, it was a good area when we invested earlier. We are constantly monitoring it for integration opportunities in telco. But that's generally the journey actually. We haven't taken them to our customers right now or fit their product into us. We have not done any kind of integration right now. Actually that's the conversation we have been having with that founders. Honestly, we haven't found a very clean opportunity, but we continue to look for one. So currently, as it stands, it's an investment, which I think is part of conversion with...

What about your investment thesis for that investing in that company?

Investment thesis at that time, my belief was -- or at least I wasn't here, but my understanding of investment thesis or the one that we continue to hold right now is that they are working in an area which is actually becoming extremely important as we go forward, right, as the number of AI models in each and every telco and company increases disproportionately, what will happen is the security around the AI models and GenAI security will become more and more important because your attack surfaces for the company increases. And what PrivaSapien does is exactly kind of work in that area where they secure your AI and GenAI model. So I think as areas go, it has very high potential.

And just to add, I think the only thing that we also monitor is the question remains as to whether this layer of security will remain outside the LLMs or will the LLMs kind of bring it inside. And we spend constant time with them understanding what the progress is, where are they within clients, what are they delivering and so on.

So we currently continue to believe that they are in a good market actually. They are also in a market that's very forward-looking in sometimes.

What is the percentage stake Subex is holding at the moment?

2.6%.

So there is no plan to increase it.

Not currently actually because I think any cash that we throw up, I mean, we have ourselves enough investment areas internally identified where I would want to plow back the cash.

Because see that AI security is going to become the very important area in future.

That's correct. Absolutely, that's why we continue to...

And so if we invest now in a bigger chunk, say, up to 25% and around that. So you will have the say on the road map of the company and how to integrate into our products. See, that will give you an indication in the market...

Yes, I hear you. But when do you see our money is -- I mean, we have a lot of our own aspirations and road maps identified, Mahesh. And I would rather invest it back and plow it back into our product suite because my span of control on our products and the markets that we deal with is so much higher, right, than when you are investing outside. So I think in that sense, I think we will make that call as we go forward.

That is -- security is a very important area. See, if some other traditional security company invest in that and then you don't have any say, that will put your this 2% is of no use.

I still think it will be of good use actually. As the valuation improves, we'll actually start to gain from it...

See, if the valuable equity...

And we very much know a subsequent round, if you've seen that we need to up our stake at that point of time, we'll make a call.

If they dilute the stake, then your stake will come down to 0.2% or something like that.

No, no, that's correct. That's what we have right to up our stake in the subsequent rounds. So when he goes to do higher fundraise, we'll take a call at that point in time.

So what I'm suggesting you, you have this on your whiteboard because this is the area which any AI company will need.

Correct, yes.

And my last question, now when you are taking the new Board...

I'm sorry to interrupt, Mr. Mahesh, can you join back the queue, sir?

No, this is my third question only. First one , this is third one. See, when you are taking new Board members, please ensure that no punter is on the Board. And second, get the expert who have global expertise or global recognition.

Sure, absolutely.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Gokul P from Subex.

So I have 3 questions. One is why -- could you explain why there's a year-on-year decrease in the APAC region revenue? Secondly...

I'm sorry, I didn't catch it. Could you please say that again?

The year-on-year decrease in the revenue from the APAC region and the rest of the world.

Okay. What can I...

Could you explain why there is -- what resulted in the decrease like you have lost some anchor customer? Or is it just like a year-on-year thing and it will ever occur in coming quarters?

No. I mean we have -- like I've said before also, we have 0 churn right now. So we have not lost any customers, but it's a nature of quarter-on-quarter, right? Some quarters, you have more MS, sometimes you have some CR shutdown. So it's the nature of what kind of work that you are doing in every region. It's not reflective of losing any customers per se. So these kind of small variations you will see across quarters in regions.

And secondly, year-on-year, the decline is largely the non-telco, which the sector of business that we're talking. And as a strategic decision, it came up. So -- but from a telco business, if you see our investor takes also, it is holding it up, but there's some marginal decline based on the nature of some managed services or implementation services, broadly the revenues are holding it up.

Yes.

Okay. Understood. And secondly, on the monthly recurring revenue. We used to report about a year ago and we have stopped reporting it over the past few quarters. So is there any increase in the revenue? Because last time we talked about it, you mentioned that it takes about a year for these projects to be implemented and get reflected in the numbers. So is there any increase in the revenue rate? Or is it still flat? And when would you see change towards the...

So currently, it is more or less flat. Yes. Currently, it's more or less flat because still we have not really converted the entire revenue to the subscription and all because there bulk of the implementations are still on. And as we explained earlier also, it's the large implementations are there. So once you finish the implementation cycle, then only the subscriptions or support services start. So still from that angle, it is there. There's a small uptick is there, but it is -- I will say it is broadly in the range of the similar which we used to report earlier. That's what we stopped reporting because it's just not giving the real outcome to that. So once we catch it up, we will start thinking about reporting that piece.

And could you like guide when -- in how many quarters we can see a change in the numbers?

Which number you're saying, the MRR?

Yes.

Maybe another 3, 4 quarters from now.

Yes.

Okay. Understood. And thirdly, this is also about a few quarters back, you had mentioned that there is a few of old timers in the sales team, there is some inflexibility in them. And since we are overall having a change in the entire company regarding the independent directors and the sales team, so are you going to be -- is there going to be some replacements or new hires? Broadly, will you be looking to replace the sales team that you had referred to in a few quarters back?

We have actually, right? I mean the sales head has been onboarded as of, I think, last week. So the Head of Sales himself has been changed. And I think we are making some other changes as well downstream. But again, as you can imagine, it's not going to be 100% turnover. It's going to be -- we'll do it in parts. But we have already made quite a few changes. So when I think of the reset, it's true. I think that we have a Board level reset, we have a management reset that's going on. We have a brand level reset. So there are resets that are happening, product portfolio. So we are looking at it comprehensively.

Okay. And finally, about the Sectrio. So we had 2 contracts and one was almost near negotiation for closure. So has the closure happened, could you please update on that?

We are almost done. We are just dotting the i's and crossing the t's. We are almost done. So with one, we are done, the other one, we are in the recovery process, as I mentioned before.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from [ Ajay Doshi ], an individual investor.

Madam, thanks for your views presented past and looking ahead for the future. AI is your product. And AI is the word which is used everywhere in all newspapers and journals. This is going to be the future. It seems presently. Now, with AI in the driver seat for you in telecom, have you thought about diversifying? See, what views I'm presenting is my personal. It's not binding on you. But just my views after reading the financial newspapers and journals. Is company developing any product in other fields such as legal, education, defense or power? There's a big focus. Now, power is -- in the end, you can summarize if you wish, but just -- power theft is a very alarming issue in this country, transmission and distribution, where lakhs of millions of watts or units have been taken away by theft. There are big power companies, Adani, Torrent, Tata and JSW Energy. And I view this as big business for the future. If company is thinking of diversifying from telecom to other businesses? These are going to be future business, legal, education and defense. Madam, effects of changes in U.S. law, H-1B visa fee hike and HIRE Act, so I would like to know your views affecting this company where you have a product in America, a company in America also. Your vision for the future, you have presented [Audio Gap] gold and silver. I'm confident you will take Subex Limited to new heights in the years to come.

Thank you, Ajay. Thank you for that vote of confidence. So just to answer your question in terms of adjacencies, so telco adjacencies are -- see, when you talk about defense or legal or education, I don't think of them as adjacencies. They are like new verticals by themselves actually. And where we are still focused on is telco adjacencies. So like I also mentioned before, a lot of people have asked me earlier also, why don't you move away from telco? And I always feel that telco first and then adjacencies. The reason is because if I look at the amount of growth or the quantum of growth that I really need right now, I think we have more than enough headroom actually where we are. We just need to make sure that we make it happen. And again, when I talk about adjacencies, there are sectors like telco wallet. I'm talking about, which is kind of fintech, telco fintech. I'm talking about OTT, which is all your Netflix and Amazon Prime and all these platforms. So we are looking at adjacencies. The challenge of going into an entirely new domain, right, like take, for example, legal, is truly that the GTM, the cost of actually cracking a market open is extremely high when you do not have domain knowledge in a certain domain. And that becomes a big factor for us. So where I wanted to go is to make sure that, first of all, my current suite of products can horizontally scale into that domain. So for instance, if I do fraud investigations or I do fraud management, right, my fraud management can actually go into a fintech or a wallet because it's like transaction monitoring. It's very easy for me to horizontally scale my product into that. But can I horizontally scale a fraud management product into education? I'm not sure. And do I understand enough about that domain to be able to go crack it at a low GTM cost? Again, I am not sure because it's many steps removed from where we are. So we are actually thinking about some of these things. This is constantly a debate internally as well. But where we are, I'm looking more in terms of adjacencies right now, looking at bad debt, how do you create AI models for bad debt, for instance. Can I take that to fintech and finance institutions? Yes. Answer is, yes. But can I take it to legal? I am not sure. So those are opportunities we are evaluating. But again, I want to make sure that whatever we do, we don't do it at the cost of very high GTM, right? If your GTM cost goes very high, it kind of defeats the purpose. So we are building [ today ]. And I take your point in consideration. I think these are industries of the future. But I feel that where we are headed as a product company in terms of making sure that we are able to fight fraud very, very effectively across domains, I think that is also the future. I'm taking a big bet on that because I feel that we are experiencing it every day, right, right from your delivery fraud to your WhatsApp fraud to your SMS. The fraud is all pervasive. And the more that AI agents come into play, this is only going to get worse actually. So I think in that sense, our bet on the future is to see if we can be the efficient machine that actually fights fraud for telco and for adjacencies and for, I would say, even financial sector in future. So that is where our biggest bet is actually. So it's more, I would say, a domain that we have picked in a place that we have, I would say, cut our teeth, and for the last 30 years, we have cut our teeth on fraud. And this sector, we understand this domain, we understand, we know how to fight fraud. And that could horizontally scale into sectors where we need to take it. So that's how we are taking a bet. Instead of trying to figure out what product I should build for a legal sector, I would rather take what I know and see how I can horizontally scale it into other things. So that's pretty much the kind of approach that we are taking right now. So, that was your question. I think there was -- I think I probably answered that.

Effect of changes in U.S. law.