Sun International Limited (SUI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Very good afternoon, everybody. Let's try that again. After the phenomenal results that we've published today, a special dividend of upwards of ZAR 256 million and most importantly, an opportunity for many of you here in the room to experience one of our standout assets, I think we can do with a little bit more excitement in the room. A very good afternoon, everybody. We're excited to have you all present with us and a special and warm welcome to the Sun International Capital Markets Day for 2026. To those of you joining us online, thank you for your time. Your participation is most welcome. And to those of you who are present in the room, a warm welcome to the grand old lady. The GrandWest Casino, much like many of our other establishments across the country, holds true to many iconic memories that have been shared by many in South Africa and beyond. And like much and many of our other establishments, it's gone through some refurbishments to ensure that this is an experience that will be felt for generations to come. It's also underscored the delivery and of course, the performance that we witnessed in our financial results today. And most importantly, what this helps us understand is the setting that we're building on. Whilst it speaks to longevity and our heritage, most importantly, what we're here to underscore today is how this is going to propel the growth that we see at Sun International. A business that through deliver the feedback that we'll offer you this afternoon, will give us more clarity as to how best we continue to be competitive in the space that we're in, but most importantly, prioritizing that we are digitally-led, market-leading omnichannel gaming company of scale. Today, we'll have the opportunity to hear from various leaders of the executive team who paint a picture and provide a lot more clarity into the direction that we're moving into. We'll hear from executives to give us some perspective around the overview of the strategy that we're driving. That will give us some more context and color into the changes that we're also witnessing within the industry that speak to regulation and how importantly we are engaging many key stakeholders. From there, we'll understand how this strategy speaks to the various levers of the business and most importantly, how we've kept our powder dry to ensure that the investment opportunities we want to tap into are attainable. Given that this is an engagement where many of you are present in the room and of course, joining us online, we want to strongly encourage you to also engage. There will be a Q&A session available between the Chief Executive and yourselves to address any key concerns and questions that will be followed up on throughout the presentation. Most importantly, we want to ask that you cast your minds and attention to the presentations, which offer a lot more color, flavor and detail into the dynamics of the strategy and how it best positions Sun International going forward. Please keep your cell phones on silent to avoid any disruptions. To those of you online, keep your feedback coming through. We will be able to address your questions a little later on in the session. We will have 15 minutes allocated for our Q&A. Any additional or unanswered questions will be addressed by our internal Investor Relations team. On that note, to build up on the excitement and most importantly, help us fully understand the direction that we're leading into and building up and propelling the growth and success that we have here at Sun International. Please allow me to warmly welcome to the front of the stage, the Group CEO of Sun International, Mr. Ulrik Bengtsson.

Good afternoon, everyone, and it's a real pleasure to welcome you all here to the beautiful GrandWest Arena and The Roxy Revue Bar. Anyone being here before? No one dares to admit. Okay. I'm Ulrik Bengtsson, Chief Executive of Sun International. This afternoon, I wanted to share with you why we are so excited about the future of Sun International and how we're positioning this company to unlock its full potential. We believe there is a tremendous value creation opportunity ahead of us. And today, you will see how we plan to grow this company and unlock that value for our shareholders. Over the past few months, me and the leadership team has undertaken a thorough operational review and refreshed our strategy and condensed that into what we refer to as our value creation plan. This is a detailed plan for how we will create value for Sun International over the next 5 years. And today, we are very privileged we're going to share all of those details with you during the next few hours. So I've been in this gaming industry and gaming industry for a long time. And what I've learned over those years is that at the end of the day, there are really 3 fundamental things that drive success for a gaming company. It's about great products for our customers. It's about great people in our organization, and it's about flawless execution. If you get those things right, you significantly increase the chance of being successful. I joined Sun about 8 months ago now. And in that short time, we have moved decisively on all 3 of those fronts. We've been reshaping our operating model. We've been executing measures to improve our operational efficiency and intensity in our Land-based casinos, and we've been bringing in new talent to enhance our capabilities and strengthen our team across the board. Sun International has a genuine superpower. We combine tremendous physical assets like this lovely place and iconic destinations like Sun City with a thriving and growing online business. The dual strength allow us to offer customer experiences that no one else can, a seamless blend of exciting real-life touch-to-grass experiences and the digital opportunity in an increasingly digitalized world. Before we turn into the details of strategy and actions and value drivers, let's have a look at the markets and the landscape in which we are operating. There are some structural trends shaping our operating environment. The first one, as I mentioned, is really digital engagement and digitalization. Consumers are spending an increasing amount of time online, which is driving strong growth in digital entertainment and online betting globally. This is not a South African phenomenon. This is a global phenomenon, and that is a wave we'll be riding on for a very, very, very long time. The second macro trend we see is really touch grass experiences. We are seeing continued rise of the experience economy. Consumers are prioritizing spending on live experience, sports, events and travel. This all supports the demand for our resorts and integrated hotel offering. And thirdly, really important, the underlying gambling or gaming businesses in which we operate are growing. Online betting continues to grow strongly even in what we would refer to as much more mature markets, it still grows. And our Land-based casinos and our Land-based casinos and our LPM business are broadly grows in line with economic activity. Together, these 3 trends create a compelling opportunity for companies that combine digital capabilities with exciting real-world entertainment experiences. And that is exactly where we, Sun International is positioned in that sweet spot. Already in September, when I spoke at our results, we outlined a vision for Sun International. We want to be a digitally-led, market-leading omnichannel gaming company of scale. I know it's a mouthful, but let me just unpack what we actually mean with that. So first of all, digitally-led, this is something that transcends everything in our organization. It is not a Sunbet specific thing. It's about how we go about solving problems, how we improve experiences, whether it's in our Land-based casinos using technology to simplify money in, money out or whether it's in our booking systems or our in-check-in system in our hospitality and our resorts. So it's an approach to problem solving and enhancing customer experiences more than anything else. Market-leading. So this is, of course, about an ambition, but it's more than just the metrics of revenue and market share. This is about the quality of work we do across the group, whether it's product development, whether it's ways of working or maybe more importantly, how we handle responsible gambling. Omnichannel. So all of us in here use omnichannel products almost every day. We just don't call it omnichannel products. You use your home delivery for groceries and then you want to go to your local shop to buy a pint of milk. You do this seamlessly. And why do you do that? Because it's convenient, because it works for you. So omnichannel for us is really for the customer to choose how they want to interact with us and make sure we tie that together with the ecosystem that sort of gives the customer benefit staying within our proprietary ecosystem. And this is where we have a real edge. We can provide both those experiences. Then we talk about scale and scale is about scaling in technology. It's about decision-making. It's about expanding our margins, and it's maybe most importantly, the ability to navigate regulatory events and changes. So with that, let's move into our value creation logic. What should you be expecting from us for the next sort of 5 years? We have defined 4 levers that captures the outcome of this value creation plan that I discussed with you. And let me just walk you through those very high level. The first one is we have an ambition to gain market share in online. We think that the online gaming industry in South Africa will be about ZAR 100 billion by 2030. That's broadly speaking, a doubling from where we are now. We were a late starter. We've done really well and grown really fast, but we have just marginally gained market share in the last year. We want to be more aggressive in gaining market share in that incredibly fast-growing market. And this is all about enabling the business through technology and improved product and experiences as well as utilizing our omnichannel ecosystem. The second part of our value logic is really about resetting the trajectory of our Land-based casinos. So we know and you all know, we have had a declining business. We want to arrest that decline and stabilize this business. The focus is on driving casino revenue back up and even a modest growth generates really strong margin improvements. Internally, I talk about this as the finger on the scale effect. If we can change the trajectory of that business, it makes a significant impact on the group margins. And we're going to do that through increasing -- continue to increase our operational intensity and continue to increase the market leader in deploying new product in our casinos. And hopefully, you will all take the chance to have a walk about here later today and see some of the exciting things that happen on our casino floors. The third part of our value creation logic is about unlocking sustainable growth in Sun slots. So this has been an underappreciated business. We have given Felix and the team, and you will hear Felix speak later, a mandate to grow. Expand LPM footprint, promising location, better utilization of machines, Category B rollouts, et cetera, et cetera. We think there's a real opportunity to continue to grow this business for a very, very long time. And the fourth and final logic for value creation is really about optimizing our hospitality portfolio. We want to continue to invest in our core properties. We see some really promising results when we have invested behind Sun City. But also, we need to be honest and make sure we assess the viability of some of those underperforming properties, and we are dealing with that as we speak. Underpinning all of this, we are acutely aware of the importance of being a responsible operator in this space. So it's really underpinned by a commitment to be a leader when it comes to responsible gambling, whether it's online or in our offline business. So if that's the logic for how we're going to create value. What is the goal of this? What's the economical goal? The outcome of our strategy is clear. and we have an economic goal to measure ourselves against. And it's really about 3 things. We want to continue to grow revenue sustainably over the next 5 years. We are going to expand margins from where we are now over the next 5 years. And thirdly, we want to improve the return on invested capital through disciplined capital allocation over the period. Now I'm sure you want me to say much more on those 3 economic goals, but just stay put, Norman will give you all the details a little bit later. So we talked about the logic behind how we're going to create value. We talked about the economic goals. So let's just talk a little bit about how are we going to deliver this plan. And internally, we have broken up the delivery of our value creation plan into 6 strategic initiatives, which really captures how we're going to go about delivering the economic goal over this period. So I'm going to spend a little bit of time now walking through the strategic initiatives, but also some of the value drivers underpinning the 6 of them. Before I do that, I'm going to have a drink of water. So firstly, strategic initiative #1 is about customer-centric product growth. And you will hear me repeat this over and over again every time we meet because it's all about product in our business. There is really no examples of successful companies that have poor products. So if we don't go back, look ourselves in the mirror and say, is our product world-class in our Sportsbook and our online casino? -- is our product world-class in the Land-based casinos. We need to be able to say yes to those questions and really make sure we have a world-class offering if we want to continue to grow and evolve this company. So product-driven growth is at the core of this. And what it really means, what does product mean? For Land-based casinos, it's a lot about deploying new machines. But in the table business, it's actually not about new tables. It's about operational intensity and operating procedures and how we make sure it's a very pleasant experience that is fast, nimble and accurate as you move along. So it's solving problems that are important to our customers. And online is a lot about continuing to simplify the interaction with us, money in and out, navigation, speed, making sure you can pretty quickly get to a point where you can place a bet. So all about that is product. And we spend a huge amount of time talking about making sure our team understand that product is the most -- it's the reason for us being on this planet. If we don't have a good product in our space, there's no reason for us to exist. The second strategic goal is about sharpened value proposition and market expansion. This is really about what's the reason to interact with us ahead of someone else. And at the core of this, why are you engaging with Sun in our various channels and products. At the core of that is really our loyalty program. Our loyalty program is the backbone that ties all of our experiences together and give us a USP and give the customer something back. Historically, that program might have been a little bit static. So we're doing a major revamp of that program to make sure it's fit for purpose for what we're going to do over the next few years. On the note of fit for purpose, the third strategic initiative is all about fit-for-purpose technology. So we will historically not have been a technology company, but we're moving increasingly to be digitally-led across the business. And this is not about Sunbet. This is about how we deploy technology across our company. And Leslie, who is our new Chief Technology and Product Officer, will talk you through some of those details in a moment. Fourth strategic goal is really about people and people evolution. You guys listen to a lot of companies talking about strategy. And to be honest, most companies have the same, right? We want to win, we want to take market share. We're going to do that and that. At the end of the day, it really comes down to what is your ability to execute, and that comes down to people. Fifth strategic goal is about operational excellence, digitalization and innovation. This is from a customer perspective to make sure we make things easier to interact with us as a group, but it's as much about our internal processes, ways of working, what tools we use and make sure that, that is making us as an organization as efficient as possible. We are currently doing a lot of work internally, reengineering processes, digitizing processes, all to be more efficient. And the sixth thing -- the sixth strategic initiative that Norman will speak more to in a second is really about strategic investment, financial discipline and/or divestments. And at the end of the day, really comes down to how we allocate our capital, and I'm sure you're keen to hear all about that soon. So like I said, strategy only creates value if it's executed well and execution is all about the people. So the way we have historically operated at Sun International is changing. We are driving through tremendous change programs across the company. And increasingly, our advantage is not only about assets and products and brands. We believe we are building an organizational capability to consistently convert strategy into financial outcomes. That is what we refer to as the Sun Edge or the SUN WAY. And let me just touch a little bit on what we mean with that. So first of all, it's about operating model. We have done a lot of work clarifying the responsibilities, who's responsible for what rather than just running a company on a property level. So we now have a casino -- Land-based casino vertical headed by Mark, you will listen to later. And then we have hospitality vertical. So clarity of accountability of the numbers. Sounds basic, but very important. We talked about ways of working, remove bureaucracy, red tape, things that slow things down, making sure we are agile, we move along, we make mistakes, we go back, we do again, much quicker, much more efficient than to overanalyze everything unless there are things that really need to be analyzed and are sort of one-way doors. But on average, daily in the business, make sure that we have a very agile way of working. Communication, big thing in terms of change at Sun International, clearer, straighter, concise, say what we mean rather than bureaucratic language that takes minutes and hours to untangle. Accountability, make sure we delegate accountability. People are very clear what they're responsible for and we hold people accountable. Input orientation. Outputs are a distraction for a company, not for you as investors, obviously, but for a company. It's all about the process, what we put into the machine. That's going to determine what the output actually are at the end of the day. So real focus on input, doing the right things, building the right products, having the right policies in place for our people or what have you. Decision-making, quick decision-making. Many times, this is the biggest problem for companies slows everything down. Decisions take too long, not anymore. We move quickly with decisions, and that goes to the next point, which is pace, all about moving quickly to stay ahead of competition and if possible, even sort of increase the distance. And final piece of this jigsaw puzzle is really capabilities to make sure that we have and that we understand what capabilities do we need as an organization to deliver on this plan. And that leads us quite nicely into sort of the introduction to today's speakers. So let me, before I hand over to all of them, walk you through sort of the capabilities that we put in place. We have outlined our vision. We have outlined our value creation logic. We have outlined our economic goal. We outlined our 6 strategic initiatives. And again, crucially, we have put in place the team to deliver this strategy. Over the last 6 months, we have significantly strengthened our leadership team, adding world-class talent in technology and operations. And I'm incredibly proud of the team and the leaders that we have assembled. And I can tell you what I see that their expertise is already contributing to the progress we're making and the green shoots we see in parts of our business. Let me talk you through why these guys and women are the right team for this part of our journey. Norman, you all know Norman, 13 years at Sun International, 9 years as CFO, collectively a lifetime 21-year experience across banking, private equity, corporate finance and professional services. And Norman, of course, been instrumental in getting me up to speed because he knows everything. It's like an encyclopedia. Mark Sergeant. Mark, we is CEO of our Land-based casino business. He has 20 years' experience in senior gaming and hospitality roles. Prior to joining Sun, he was the Group Managing Director for Genting Casinos in the U.K. Mark knows casinos. We have Nomzamo, and now I'm going to practice Mazulu, Radebe who is -- has joined us as a COO of Hospitality and Sales, 27 years experience in real estate, property and hospitality sectors. She joined us from as -- when she was at COO at SA Corporate Real Estate. And before that, she was CEO at Excellerate. Leslie Peters, Chief Technology and Product Officer, running all things technology and product across the group, 20 years experience in gaming and technology leadership. He has multiple experiences from scaling and building and scaling market-leading platforms. And prior to joining Sun International, he was the Chief Technology Officer at Games Global. If there ever was, I can tell you, Leslie is a world-class technology leader. Felix Mthembu, he's the CEO of Sun Slots. You've seen Felix before. He has 19 years of LPM gaming and experience is one of our most experienced managers and leaders and have an incredibly experienced and strong team around him. And finally, Simon Gregory, CEO of Sunbet, 15-plus years of experience in online betting and gaming in senior executive and management positions internationally. You will hear from all of them in a moment, and I'm confident you will recognize the depth of talent driving this company forward and appreciate the details of the respective plans to unlock value at Sun International. I will come back in a moment, but for now, I hand over to Gugu. Thank you.

So we've got some perspective as to what this looks like from a group point of view. And further throughout the program today, we will hear from the respective executives who will give us a lot more detail. But before we get there, we're also going to take an opportunity to address a key theme that influences the industry at large, and that's regulation. So -- but in order to ensure that we understand the potential changes that we can see in South Africa, we thought it best to actually reach out to a global peer who in conversation today will give us some perspective as to what the lived experience has been, some suggested insight and maybe even some thought-provoking views that we can also establish here in South Africa, but more so as to how Sun International is responding. So I'm going to introduce our international speaker, guest speaker, who joins us today, following which we'll have an opportunity to hear from Ulrik back on stage just to understand how Sun International does respond to some of the changes that we might see. Our guest speaker today is someone who is very familiar with the world of gaming, gambling and of course, sports betting. She joins us as the CEO of the U.K.'s largest betting and gaming trade association, the Betting and Gaming Council of the U.K. She's also had experience as a Director of Corporate Affairs at Entain. Now this is a business of well-known British gaming brands, Ladbrokes and Coral. For nearly a decade, she's also served within the political landscape in Britain, giving some perspective around regulation and of course, shifts in the industry. Please warmly welcome to the front of the stage, ladies and gentlemen, our guest speaker will join us in conversation today to help us paint a clearer picture of the regulatory environment, what it looks like from abroad and some key considerations we need to bear in mind in South Africa. The CEO of Betting and Gaming Council in the U.K., Ms. Grainne Hurst a warm welcome to her, please.

Thank you for that really warm welcome and also to Ulrik and the whole team at Sun International for the opportunity to bring you an international perspective to your discussion today. My aim is to share lessons from mature markets, particularly in the United Kingdom, but also parts of Europe to frame how regulation tends to evolve as industries scale and digitize. So who are the BGC and what do we do? The Betting and Gaming Council represents more than 90% of the regulated betting and gaming industry in Britain, spanning online operators, Land-based casinos, high street betting shops, including some of the household names that you can see on the screen behind me. We work closely with government, with stakeholders, with regulators to promote high standards and effective regulation. And we've also published a paper setting out what we think good regulation looks like centered on proportionality, transparency, firm enforcement against black market operators and constructive engagement with industry expertise. And those principles have really been critical in maintaining the credibility in what can often be, as I'm sure you're all aware, sometimes a politically sensitive sector. The BGC also exists to raise standards and provide a single and credible voice for the regulated sector. And what we found is that high standards are absolutely essential to maintaining both political confidence but also public trust. The regulated sector in the United Kingdom contributes about GBP 7 billion to the U.K. economy. We support over 100,000 jobs. Our Land-based casinos underpin the tourism and the hospitality. Our betting shops provide employment and drive footfall on the high street and our online businesses contribute significantly through both tax and digital employment. In last year's budget, the Land-based venues in the U.K. avoided the more significant increases that many had anticipated, and we think that's largely because of their visible employment base and their high street presence. At the same time, remote gaming duties remain firmly part of the fiscal debate, which I will come on to in a moment. But I think that contrast clearly illustrates how policymakers often differentiate between segments of our industry according to the political and economic realities. Our sector is also a major supporter of sport. Horse racing is deeply connected to betting as it is here through levy contributions and media rights, but we also support the football, darts, snooker and Rugby League sectors through investment advertising sponsorship at the elite level, but also at the grassroots level. And these contributions really reinforce the industry's embedded role within the communities that they serve and also strengthen our long-term social license to operate. I think it's also important to remember that actually betting and gaming is fun. In Britain, over 22.5 million adults place a bet every month. That participation rises significantly around major sporting events like the Grand National or the Premier League season. As a spurs fan, the less it said about that, the better. And nearly 3/4 of customers describe betting as a national pass time. It's something fun that they like to do as part of their leisure and entertainment. And importantly, for us, the overwhelming majority of that activity takes place in the regulated market. We have high channelization rates, which protect consumers, also tax revenues and contribute to sport. But channelization isn't automatic, and it needs to be protected. So how do we do that? Great Britain is currently implementing reforms following a Gambling Act review white paper, which includes a whole raft of measures, but things like affordability checks, online staking limits and tighter compliance obligations. There's been extensive media coverage and political debate in recent years about that. But actually, on the ground, what we're seeing is operational recalibration as a result of these changes. Systems are being upgraded, customer journeys are being refined and compliance functions are being strengthened. But participation, it remains broadly stable, and it's just what a mature market does. The one constant thing in our sector is change. For smaller operators, absorbing some of those additional compliance costs may prove difficult. As standards rise and fiscal pressures increase, we will undoubtedly see some more consolidation in the market, but that's not unusual. It's a normal feature of maturing industries that are having to operate under higher regulatory requirements. Even though we are a mature market in the U.K., as I said, one of the constant features in the regulatory environment has been change. Since 2014, we have seen tax reforms. We've seen advertising reforms. We've seen enhanced safer gambling requirements and now, as I said, the white paper implementation. It's a significant amount of regulatory change for the industry, but the industry has continued to operate, innovate and contribute. As of March 2025, the Gambling Commission licensed over 2,000 operators in the U.K. and handed out nearly 20,000 personal license holders. Over the period 2021 to '24, '25, total gambling industry GGY increased from GBP 9 billion to GBP 13.4 billion per annum. As I said, participation remains broadly stable. Digital capability has been strengthened. Businesses have adapted their models and enhanced their customer offer. Importantly, I think we need to make sure we don't underestimate our sector's ability to adapt and change constantly. Internationally, gambling markets tend to follow recognizable stages. Firstly, legislation is followed by rapid growth in innovation, then political scrutiny increases, controls tighten and consolidation follows. Eventually, the market stabilizes under clearer and more established set of rules, which is exactly what we saw happen in Britain after 2014. Italy similarly experienced advertising restrictions and licensing reform that accelerated consolidation. And meanwhile, if we look to countries like Denmark, it's often cited as a well-balanced model where early clarity and consistent enforcement has supported high channelization rates. The recent Autumn Budget in the U.K. announced significant changes to gambling taxation. Remote gaming duty will increase from 21% to 40% from the 1st of April next month, and then there will be a new remote betting duty, which comes into force in April next year, rising from 15% to 25%. Good news is that bingo duty will be abolished and Land-based taxes remain unchanged. But these measures taken together represent one of the most substantial fiscal adjustments to the sector in over a decade. For online operators, in particular, the increase in the remote gaming duty will materially alter their cost structures and their margin assumptions. But as with previous reforms, the impact will be felt in things like pricing decisions, investment and also capital allocation. Smaller operators may find it more difficult to absorb these additional costs, and therefore, we will see adaptation follow reform. Consolidation often occurs with larger operators obviously being better placed to absorb that change than some of the smaller ones. And therefore, as I said, further consolidation is likely. But what can we learn? The U.K.'s introduction of the point of consumption tax back in 2014 marked a fundamental shift in how gambling was taxed. Operators were required to pay tax based on where the customer was located rather than where the businesses were headquartered. And for many, that represented a significant increase in their tax obligations overnight. What happened? Margins tightened, cost structures were reassessed, some smaller operators did exit the market and others merged with one another to achieve greater scale and efficiency, but the market did not unravel. It simply adjusted. Businesses became leaner, they became more disciplined. They strengthened their compliance functions, but the U.K. remained one of the largest and most attractive regulated markets in the world. So the lesson is clear. Tax changes reshape markets, but they do not necessarily undermine them. Clarity and predictability are critical in our world. The Netherlands offers a slightly more cautionary example of how policy balance shapes outcomes. After opening its regulated online market in 2021, the online gaming tax rose last year to 34.2% with further increases scheduled. At the same time as that, strict advertising restrictions were introduced and deposit limits were tightened. Enhanced affordability checks came into force, verification requirements increased, and therefore, that added a lot of friction into the customer journey. Individually, each of those measures may well be defensible, but collectively, they reduced the competitiveness of the licensed offering. Unfortunately, gross gambling revenue declined and tax receipts fell well short of projections. Policymakers publicly acknowledge their growing concerns about the illegal market and the channelization rates. So it's clear that higher taxation when layered on top of marketing restrictions, adding to customer friction can weaken channelization, which is why balance is always essential. If not, what happens, the illegal market thrives. The illegal market exists in every regulated jurisdiction. In Great Britain, recent estimates suggest that over GBP 10 billion is being staked every year with unlicensed operators. Another survey found that 1 in 5 18- to 24-year-olds who bet are actively using unlicensed sites because there are better offers and odds than in the regulated space and 1.5 million adults are engaging with unregulated gambling. I think this requires some context, though. The illegal market does remain a minority share of overall activity in the U.K. and I'm pleased to say that the vast majority of customers do continue to bet within the regulated system. But illegal operators exploit moments of friction. They target younger customers online. They promote fewer checks and incentives that license operators have to adhere to. And therefore, the illegal market growth correlates with regulatory imbalance. When regulation is proportionate and enforcement is strong, then channelization remains high. So what can be done? There's definitely always more that we can and should do to combat illegal operators, but it's important to say that no jurisdiction can fully eradicate the black market. Before sports betting legislation in the U.S., for example, illegal markets flourished despite prohibition. If we look at China today, despite extensive Internet controls, illegal gambling activity remains significant. So our objective here has to be containment. And in order to safeguard the long-term sustainability of the regulated sector, we need regulation to remain competitive and proportionate. Enforcement has to be visible and consistent against those who are operating illegally. Consumers have to understand the protections that licensed operators provide and competitiveness and enforcement as well as awareness underpin high channelization rates in our great sector. As I've said already, sustainable regulation depends on balance. If customers experience excessive friction, then migration increases. If regulators lose confidence, then scrutiny intensifies. If profitability disappears and investment declines, the most effective markets maintain an equilibrium through evidence-based policy and continuous dialogue with their regulator. When margins tighten and compliance requirements increase, efficiency improves, technology investment rises and consolidation follows. These are normal adjustments in a maturing market, not signs of structural weakness. And channelization, therefore, has to always remain the anchor of sustainable regulation. So what are my key takeaways? Great Britain remains a successful mature market, experiencing regulatory disruption, not collapse. Problem gambling rates remain broadly stable with the latest data showing 0.7% of the population have problems with their gambling despite significant digital expansion over the last 10 to 15 years. Tax and regulatory shifts drive adjustment, discipline and consolidation. Land-based policy remains strategically important during any time of digital transition. And black market displacement is real, but it's manageable through proportionate regulation and effective enforcement. Looking further abroad, international experience consistently shows that balance, clarity and collaboration underpin sustainable growth. And before I close, just a very brief tribute to Ulrik. We worked together during his time as CEO of Willian Hill when I was at Ladbrokes and Coral. And in fact, Ulrik was one of the founding fathers of the Betting and Gaming Council. So I literally would not be stood here if it wasn't for him. I've always admired his instinctive understanding of the balance between growth and sustainable regulation. He recognized that investor confidence dependent really on commercial ambition and regulatory credibility, and that balance is still essential for any market navigating digital transition. So thank you for the opportunity to share my perspectives today. As I said, mature markets evolve, stability gives businesses the confidence to invest, to innovate and to focus on operational excellence and with clarity, proportionality and stability, any betting and gaming company can continue to be sustainable, competitive and investable. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Grainne. After a phenomenal presentation like that, you can't leave us. So please do join us for a seat, and we have Ulrik with us on stage as we would like to get some perspective as to how Sun International is essentially responding to some of these regulatory shifts we see.

Thank you, Grainne, and I did pay here to say all those nice things. So let me summarize before we go to a little bit of a Q&A here, Sun International's views on regulation. It's very important to recognize that a balanced, robust and predictable regulation is the best forward -- the best way forward for the industry, including us. We want to have a clear framework to operate within so we can invest and sort of know what the rules of the game are. Second, regulation and managing regulation, when you are in our industry, this is normal. This is core business. This is what we do as a company. So -- and we have also seen across the world, like Grainne talked to what is going to happen around the corner. So we're very well prepared to sort of see how to react to some of these things. We talked about scale. Scale is super important in absorbing and managing regulatory events over time. We see that in market after market after market, and it's going to be -- will be the same here. As an industry, we embrace and welcome regulation. And I think my final point really is that the future of regulation is reasonably predictable. We have learned a lot from best-in-class operators around the world. So we think we're in a good place in terms of knowing what's going to happen. But thank you, and we're going to take some questions.

Fantastic. Thank you so much for that feedback. And more than anything, I believe for an audience like you, we understand that this is a key and pertinent issue to ensure that we will address. So there will be an opportunity for further Q&A towards the end of today's program. But I do believe that perhaps there's a few themes that we can really pull out here. And perhaps, Grainne, just to start off with you. You highlighted and emphasized channelization in terms of regulation. Add more detail as to what exactly that means and how it would work.

Yes. So it's really important that we get the balance right between regulation and taxation. I think sometimes people focus on taxation changes, but actually, we need to look at it holistically in terms of tax and regulation. How do we keep players in the regulated market? How do we get high channelization rates? It's by having sensible tax regimes. It's by having predictable regulation and open market standards, proactive player protection measures, but sensible ones where the regulator works with the industry to understand how best to support a customer without providing too much friction in that journey.

Got you. In terms of that integration there, I imagine that these are some suggestions that South Africa could use and implement to be as competitive within the regulatory space.

Yes. Again, I think balance is essential here. We obviously in the regulated sector, we provide protections for customers. We provide fun and entertainment. We want to continue doing that. But we need to make sure that we're not driving customers away from the regulated sector into the illegal market because they get better odds and offers elsewhere because our products are too restricted or the stake sizes are too low. So I think it's all about getting that balance right.

I'm not sure if many of you might have caught on that Denmark is a market leader in terms of regulation from the presentation. And I guess if that's the blueprint to follow, what -- how should South Africa look to follow in that direction?

So I think some things that countries do wrong, which Denmark gets right, low advertising restrictions, less product friction, an open market. So there's plenty of opportunity and choice for customers, having set standards in place, but not overly restrictive for customers and then continuing to monitor it. So if something is not working, look at it again and tweak it rather than carrying on regardless.

Ulrik, I imagine that you must have grown number now on speed dial. There's a lot for us to learn following this presentation. But a big theme that we would want to understand is how Sun International is engaging regulators to perhaps adopt some of these best practices that we can implement.

So I think there's a few learnings. BGC has been very successful in the U.K. to be part of shaping some of the regulatory questions. And we are now -- we've announced today, we're the founding members of the equivalent in South Africa, Betting Industry Council. No extra credit for creativity in the name, but we have started that. We're a founding member of that together with Betway to organize the industry. And I think what we hear from politicians here all the time is that we need to have a unified view. So this gives us an opportunity to have a unified vehicle to talk as one voice as an industry. I think that's one thing. And then as a company, I think we need to be recognizing that we've been slightly disorganized historically. We're getting our act together, and we are now engaging proactively both with the regulators, but also politically to be inviting to dialogue to the extent the government wants to have dialogue on how this should shape out over the next 2 years. And again, we are very positive to an embracing future regulation, but it's an important part in that, that there is in certain amount of dialogue.

Got you. You highlighted earlier, Ulrik, that this is part of the status quo, business as usual. So I'm assuming this underscores that the changes or proposed changes are not a threat to business, specifically for Sun International.

I think it's been shown all over the world that it's not a threat in business itself. Business having a remarkable ability to adapt, but you need to be on it. You need to understand what's happening. You need to be prepared as an organization. And ideally, you're part of the conversation as an industry.

100% I think we'll leave it there for today because there's so much more that we're going to get into and perhaps even further reflections of this theme being discussed in much of the additional pillars of the business regarding the strategic direction. Thanks so much, Ulrik. Grainne, thank you again for your time. Much appreciated. Can we please give them a round of applause for that presentation.

A reminder that Ulrik will be available for a brief Q&A session about 15 minutes towards the end of today's program. What we are going to do, though, for the moment is to ensure that we move swiftly along the different pillars of the business. This is where we really get an opportunity to deep dive into what the strategy rollout looks like when it comes to the various pillars. And as we've heard, digitally-led remains the key ethos of where Sun International is positioned, and that comes with a strong drive to invest in technology and ensuring that it's a key enabler and propeller to the growth that we look for. To help us fully unpack and contextualize where this takes us, we will be joined now if we can warmly welcome the Chief Technology Officer and Product Officer at Sun International, Mr. Leslie Peters, to guide us as to what the opportunities are when it comes to leveraging strategy and action, specifically highlighting technology. A warm welcome, please, to Leslie Peters.

Good afternoon, and thank you. When we say we want to be a digitally-led, market-leading omnichannel company of scale, this is what that actually means in practice. Our strategy is executed through technology by owning the products, building a scalable and resilient architecture and using data to drive disciplined execution. This allows us to develop better products faster, operate with lower risk and scale consistently across channels. The outcome is product-led growth, operating leverage and more efficient returns, not through once-off upgrades, but through repeatable execution. When we say Sun International is digitally-led, we mean something very practical. Across the group, we optimize for trust, speed and habit. And those principles guide how we operate. Trust comes from secure funds, fair and responsible play and consistent experiences across digital and on property. Speed is about removing friction, faster journeys for our customers and faster execution for our teams. Habit is how value compounds, experiences which delight the customer and they choose to return. That's what being digitally-led means in practice. This architecture represents the target state we're building towards. At the bottom are the foundational capabilities, infrastructure and security, which we're strengthening to be more resilient, compliant and scalable. On top of that, we're progressively building shared platform and integration services, which connect our customer channels and our core enterprise systems, our ERP, our property, our point of sale and our workforce into a single architecture. That shared foundation enables consistent product and experience services while still allowing each business to differentiate where it matters. On the left is how we build, operate and evolve this over time. And on the right are the guardrails, which keep it secure and resilient. AI and automation adoption across the stack, focusing on decision support and efficiency. This is the framework guiding our technology investment and execution as we scale. For us, ownership is not about owning everything. It's about owning the technology and products that matter to our ability to compete, the platforms, experiences and the data directly shaping customer outcomes and execution quality. That ownership gives us control over how we build, how we scale and how we differentiate. And it's what allows us to compete through execution excellence and distinctive product offerings. This slide sets the standard we are building towards. World-class starts with access and ease. Customers can engage with us intuitively across channels with no friction to get started or return. It requires speed, fast, predictable performance across every interaction, supported by teams that can execute change quickly and respond decisively. Trust is nonnegotiable, absolute confidence in customers' funds, fair and responsible gaming and experiences we deliver on property and digitally. At scale, this depends on stability, platforms that perform reliably at peak demand and experience, consistent, high-quality, relevant interactions that customers actively choose again. This is the bar for world-class performance and is the benchmark guiding the investments and execution choices you'll see next. Product quality is the primary driver of financial performance. When we improve the product, making it easier to use, faster and more reliable, delight the customer, then customers are more willing to engage and deposit. That increases the number of active depositing customers and increases how often the customer chooses to engage with us. Over time, that behavior drives higher lifetime value, lower acquisition costs and creates more defensible growth. So this isn't growth driven by marketing spend. It's product-led growth built on customer behavior and repeat engagement. The Sunbet upgrade improves the entire customer journey end-to-end from arrival to return. We've reduced friction, made registration and deposits simpler and improved speed and reliability throughout the experience. Payments feel more predictable and bank grade, which builds trust, while cleaner journeys and personalization makes it easier for customers to come back. That combination of trust, speed and habit is what drives higher active customer days and depositing active customers. I'm thrilled to show you some of the new designs for Sunbet. This slide shows the new Sunbet arrival experience, improving speed, trust and habit. Customers get from intent to action faster through clearer navigation and instant access. Key information like balance, bets and support is always visible, which builds confidence and control. And the consistent layout removes friction, making it easier for customers to come back and engage again. Speed and trust arrival matter, but the real value is what happens next, how easily customers move into active repeat engagement. This screen is about turning interest into engagement. Content is clearly organized, relevant and updated in real time, so customers can quickly find what matters to them. Personalized discovery and recommendation reduces effort and encourages exploration, which increases engagement and repeat play. Once customers find something they want to play, the next step is removing friction from registration so they act immediately. Registration is designed to feel simple and familiar. We've streamlined the steps, reducing effort and made the flow clear so customers can sign up with confidence. That ease builds trust, removes drop-off, which directly improves conversion into active customers. Once customers are registered, the next critical moment is the deposit experience where trust, speed and reliability really matter. The deposit experience is designed to feel safe, fast and familiar. Payment options are clear and easy to choose. Feedback is immediate and the flow is predictable from start to finish. This builds confidence at a critical moment and removes hesitation, which directly increases conversion into active play. Safe Play is designed to be simple, visible and easy to use. Every responsible gaming control, limits, breaks, support and self-exclusion is always accessible, not hidden away. By making these tools easy to find and easy to use, we give players confidence and control, which supports sustainable engagement and long-term trust. Omnichannel. This is how we turn omnichannel from a concept into an operational reality. At the center is a unified wallet and loyalty system that connects online, the casino floor, hospitality and the point-of-sale devices into one experience. Customers can move funds instantly across channels, earn and redeem loyalty in real time and be recognized for their total value, not just where they happen to play. That foundation enables new journeys like tap to pay and seamless movement between physical and digital play. Underneath it all sits shared data, analytics and AI, which allows us to personalize experience and scale this responsibly. This is the infrastructure that makes true omnichannel engagement possible. This is how the target enterprise architecture outlined earlier is applied across the group in practice. While Sunbet is a clear example of product-led growth, the same shared technology capabilities sits underneath our businesses. We build core platforms, identity, wallet, loyalty and digital services once and reuse them across the gaming, the Land-based casino and hospitality. That allows each business to deliver experiences tailored to its customers while benefiting from the same scalable, resilient foundation. The result is better execution everywhere, faster rollout of omnichannel journeys and returns at scale without rebuilding capabilities business by business. This is how digital investment translates into group-wide value. This road map shows how we deliver value in a disciplined phased way from 2026 through to 2030. We start with near-term execution, getting the Sunbet experience live, rolling out engage and putting the initial data foundations in place. From there, we move into connected omnichannel capabilities, reimagining key products and launching new customer journeys. By 2028 and beyond, the focus shifts to a complete data architecture, player account management and expanding omnichannel journeys incrementally. The key point is that each phase builds on the last, improving speed, execution and capability, so value compounds over time rather than relying on once-off initiatives. By optimizing product experience, platform scale and shared capabilities across the group, technology becomes a driver of performance rather than a cost center. That directly improves customer behavior, higher engagement through habit, higher conversion through trust and faster execution with lower operational risk. Those dynamics unlock what matters most, sustainable product-led revenue growth, more efficient capital deployment and a scalable omnichannel advantage that compounds over time. In short, this is not a once-off upgrade. It's how technology becomes a repeatable engine of value creation for the group. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Leslie. Much appreciated. We will aligned, we're all comfortable where we are when it comes to technology and product development? Yes, no, maybe? Okay. We'll get there. But this is why we have this session to ensure that there's clear direction in terms of the journey ahead and making sure that we have an understanding of how best this is going to propel much of the opportunity that exists. We're building up on that momentum now and deep diving into our Land-based gaming operations to help us get some perspective as to how it is that we'll be remaining innovative, competitive and using technology to be a key lever for growth within our Land-based gaming business. Please warmly welcome to the front of the stage the COO of Land-based gaming, Mr. Mark Sergeant. A warm welcome to you.

Good afternoon, everyone. Our Land-based casino portfolio remains the core cash generator of Sun International. And as Ulrik said earlier, we see a clear opportunity to unlock further value from these assets through targeted product investments, stronger customer engagement and improved operational intensity and execution. Let me start by looking at the strength of our portfolio. Sun International operates the leading Land-based casino portfolio in South Africa with 11 casinos across 8 provinces, including flagship properties such as Sun City, Times Square, Sibaya and of course, where we are today, GrandWest. Importantly, our flagship properties are located in the country's key economic and population centers, providing access to both large domestic markets and important tourism flows. This footprint provides 3 key advantages. Firstly, scale. Our portfolio allows us to leverage marketing capabilities, loyalty programs and operational expertise across multiple properties. Secondly, customer reach. We are able to serve multiple regional markets while maintaining strong local brand positions. And thirdly, resilience. Our geographic diversification reduces exposure to economic volatility in any single region. Together, our properties provide a strong platform for continued value creation within our Land-based casinos. Turning to the broader market and the outlook for the future. The South African Land-based casino market is forecasted to be worth ZAR 16 billion round. And in 2026 and is a mature market, which H2 Gambling Capital are forecasting will show modest growth over the next 5 years. In markets like this, value creation does not come from market growth. It comes from gaining market share and improving margins. Sun International is already the market leader with a 46% share of the market. Our focus is on continuing to grow share while improving margins across our portfolio. We believe there is still meaningful opportunity to unlock value within our existing assets through stronger customer engagement, targeted product investments and improved operational intensity and execution. And that is precisely what our strategy is designed to deliver. To capture this opportunity, we are resetting the trajectory of our Land-based casino business. We already operate high-quality assets with leading market positions, and we continue to see strong market share growth across the portfolio, which has continued into 2026. However, we believe there is still significant upside in how we operate these assets. We have, therefore, launched a structured value creation program built around 3 key pillars: customer, people and execution. Each pillar focuses on specific drivers of revenue growth, margin expansion and productivity improvements. Importantly, this program is managed through a central project execution office, ensuring disciplined execution and consistent delivery across all properties. Let me now take you through each of these 3 pillars. The first pillar is customer. We are transforming our loyalty program from a traditional points-based reward system into a personalized engagement engine. The objective is simple: increase visit frequency, deepen engagement and grow customer value over time. We're doing this in several ways. Firstly, by enabling more personalized engagement, using customer data to tailor offers and experiences. We will be able to target individual customers with offers specific to their playing behavior. For example, what slot game they play, what day of the week they visit their favorite casino. Secondly, through tier optimization, encouraging behavioral shifts that increase both visitation and spend. And thirdly, by enabling cross-channel earning and redemption which is key to supporting our broader omnichannel strategy. We are also introducing mobile phone tap-to-play functionality, which will improve convenience and speed at both slot machines and gaming tables. This transformational program is planned for launch in the first half of 2027. Ultimately, this transformation will drive higher visit frequency and stronger returns from our CRM initiatives. The second major lever under the customer pillar is market-leading investment in our gaming product. We are making disciplined, return-driven investments to improve both customer experience and gaming floor productivity. Slots remain the most profitable part of the casino floor, and we are upgrading our product offering across the portfolio. This includes the rollout of 600 new slot machines across our 5 flagship properties, representing investment at roughly twice the pace of the rest of the industry. We're also introducing more than 250 electronic table games, expanding the appeal of our gaming offer and driving productivity improvements as these games will reduce the need for tables to be open at quieter times of the day. In addition, we are leveraging our scale to introduce cross-property jackpots, creating larger prize pools and stronger customer appeal. We're also improving our table gaming offer with the introduction of higher-margin games such as Double Zero Roulette and creating an omnichannel USP by enabling SunBet customers to play a roulette table based in Sun City through the SunBet platform. We're also strengthening our VIP proposition through targeted investments in our salon privés. And those of you in the room today will see a great example of this here at GrandWest with a stunning refurbishment of the privés, which was completed last year. These investments are designed to increase utilization and yield per gaming position, which are key drivers of profitability. This short video brings to life some of the new initiatives that I've just covered. [Presentation]

The second pillar of our strategy is people. Casinos are ultimately a service-led business, and the quality of our people has a direct impact on both the customer experience and operational productivity. We are, therefore, investing in enhancing capabilities across our casino teams to align with international benchmarks. For example, we have delivered training to more than 1,000 dealers, introducing improved dealing standards that increase both game speed and customer engagement. We're also using data and analysis to enhance staff scheduling to ensure optimal table availability during peak demand periods. In addition, we are refining the structure of our VIP teams by clearly recognizing the difference between customer acquisition and customer retention roles and aligning this approach across both land-based and online channels. Together, these initiatives improve service quality, increase productivity and support revenue and margin growth across the portfolio. The third pillar is execution, and this is where we unlock a significant portion of the margin opportunity within the business. Because casinos operate with a high fixed cost base, even modest improvements in utilization and productivity translate directly into meaningful margin expansion. For example, shaving just 1 second off our roulette spin times generates ZAR 5 million per annum across the group. We're introducing new operational KPIs that better reflect drivers of gaming revenue. For example, we are shifting our focus from footfall metrics to slots occupancy, which is a far more direct indicator of performance. We're also optimizing slot floor profitability through improved product mix machine placements and pricing strategies. Every property has a blueprint which breaks the slot floor down into zones, which ensures we have a clear strategy around target player type, average price to play and payout percentages. For example, here at GrandWest, the casino floor is broken down into 19 zones, split across the smoking and non-smoking zones and the salon privés. On the table gaming side, we are improving dealing procedures, game speeds and table utilization. And we are implementing more sophisticated yield management techniques, optimizing both game mix and pricing across the gaming floor. Put simply, using data and analysis to identify when additional tables should be opened and minimum bet levels should be increased. Together, these initiatives will drive higher margins, improved utilization and stronger operational performance across the portfolio. To conclude, our land-based casinos represent high-quality assets in leading market positions, and we see clear opportunities to unlock further value from this portfolio. We're doing this in 3 ways. Firstly, through revenue growth, driven by targeted product investment at twice the pace of the industry, transforming our loyalty program and strengthening our VIP proposition. Secondly, through margin expansion by improving slots occupancy, optimizing table game productivity and enhancing labor efficiency. And thirdly, through disciplined capital allocation, focused on targeted high-return investments while leveraging the strength of our existing portfolio. Importantly, these initiatives do not rely on market growth. Instead, they're focused on extracting greater value from the assets we already own to further grow our market-leading share. Execution is already underway, and we are confident our strategy will deliver continued market share gains to reset the trajectory of our land-based casino business. Thank you.

So we have an idea where we are changing gears and of course, most importantly, improving the land-based casino dynamics. Many of you here in the room will have an opportunity to actually see and experience much of these facilities right here at the GrandWest Casino. But we encourage you as well to be mindful of the changes, experience much of the dynamics and most importantly, understand how this does change the customer experience. Land-based gaming is one of the opportunities that we have in terms of growth levers. But many of you, as would have witnessed from the numbers that were released today, another fourth year of consecutive growth that we see in SunBet, shooting the lights across all major metrics, and I see you nodding your head in agreement, this is where, again, continued opportunity and growth lies. But today, we're going to paint a picture as to how we continue with that momentum, how we propel that growth to fundamentally ensure that we enhance market exposure and most importantly, the control of the market and of course, growth in that dynamic. To tell us how best we are looking to drive growth and of course, market share within SunBet, please warmly welcome to the front of the stage, the CEO of SunBet, Simon Gregory.

Good afternoon, and thank you, Gugu. Over the last 4 years, we've seen phenomenal growth in SunBet revenues as a result of addressing the foundational aspects of our business. The challenge that lies ahead is to drive market share gains in this high-growth market at scale. Before we look forward, it's important to establish where we currently are positioned. South Africa's online gaming market is valued at over ZAR 50 billion. Demand has been unlocked by broader product availability resulting from regulatory change and general consumer adoption. This has been driven by wider macro trends such as smartphone and data availability as well as the now mass adoption of e-commerce generally. This market continues to demonstrate mass market appeal with strong long-term structural tailwinds. SunBet has been playing catch-up in this market to early entrants, but we are now getting ahead of the curve. With the 76% revenue growth announced this morning, SunBet is #4 player in this market with approximately 4.5% market share. That position is important, but it's not where we intend to stay. Our forecast suggests that this market will double over the next 5 years to ZAR 100 billion. And our objective is clear: to double our market share in this fast-growing market. The prize for doing this is significant. As the market matures over the coming years, our opportunity is to move from challenger to leadership. Since 2022, the business has been rebuilding technologically, operationally and strategically. We still have work to do. But looking forward, the next phase will not be driven by regulation or marketing, but through product leadership. Global evidence is very clear. In the online world, the product leader ultimately becomes the category winner. I don't know a market-leading online company that has a suboptimal product. It simply can't happen. So our strategy is absolutely product first. Online switching costs are low. Customers move quickly to the best experience. That means if we win on product, everything else will follow. Product has to come first. Otherwise, those marketing dollars are wasted. Every tech decision we make needs to be intentional as all aspects have an impact. We will use technology to drive all that we do. To support this, we are undertaking an end-to-end rebuild of the business over the next 2 years, with heavy focus on technology choices that enable scale. This includes: seamless integrated systems and new client-side front-end launching midyear; enhanced cloud-based infrastructure and modern database architectures; and a full back-end system overhaul in 2027. But how are we executing internally? Execution matters. This is one of the core operational focus areas outlined by Ulrik earlier, and this is where the real progress has been made. Looking forward, we have identified a number of core operational competencies where significant improvement will reap disproportional benefits. Sportsbook. This is now under 10% of our gross gaming revenue for 2025. Whilst it's been the right strategy to focus on the enormous growth in the slots and casino markets over the past few years, our sports revenues are now underrepresented, and we have strategies to address this. We have a new team in place with global expertise, bringing experience to make an impact ahead of the FIFA World Cup. With a sharpened value proposition, we are finding our voice in this market that resonates with our customer base. We are dramatically increasing personalization, improved customer journeys and upgrading our offering. You've heard this phrase from Mark and Ulrik, but we need to operate with intensity, always on and always relevant. Our CRM system and capabilities have been enhanced with new software. We are ingesting over 1 million automated trigger points daily to define customized user journeys to communicate in real time with our players. This ensures we are putting the right message in front of the right customers at the right time. The scope of our CRM system is vast. We aim to have 350-plus user journeys defined, sending messages in real time via pop-ups, SMS, e-mail and chat. These journeys can be A/B tested, measured, modified to scale what works. This is an exciting new channel of communication for us. We have enhanced our digital marketing team with new hires and new tools. Digital marketing meets our players where they are, online. It's highly scalable, highly measurable and ROI-driven. We are building complex attribution models to understand in detail who our players are and the channels from which they come, allowing us to do more of what works and scale accordingly. Affiliate marketing is a new avenue of traffic generation, previously untapped by us but a mainstay of most online businesses. Enabled by new technology, these affiliates drive new sign-ups from third parties, opening up the SunBet brand to a wide online audience. The combination of enhanced CRM, digital marketing and affiliates hand-in-hand to acquire efficient customers to drive lifetime values. This is a technology-led acquisition and retention engine, not a traditional marketing model. Our growth is not limited to South Africa. We are expanding carefully and deliberately across near neighbor markets. Botswana is live, a small market but growing rapidly. We are recently live in Namibia, and we are undertaking planning and research in Zambia, targeting launch for late 2026. We have additional licenses in Ghana and Kenya. However, we remain cautious on large greenfield start-ups in these fragmented regulatory environments. Our preference is disciplined expansion, including selective M&A where we can achieve critical mass with available capital without compromising our returns. So how do we measure that success internally? We measure the business on 3 core pillars. Like any business, we need more people coming through the door, spending more money. So we measure on a daily basis 3 core metrics: activity, defined as active customer days, the sum of the daily unique players for a period, let's say, 30 days. This effectively measures business volume; trust, as Leslie was talking about earlier, how many of those customers are depositing with us; and value, the total rand value of those deposits. Over the long run, approximately 25% of these deposits are retained as gross gaming revenue. Whilst we have a whole host of metrics underneath the business, all of these were aimed at driving one of these core outcomes. As the graphs demonstrate, there is an absolute correlation in the growth of active customer base, deposits and our 2025 revenue growth. What really underpins long-term value creation is customer retention. Many of you will have seen this graph before, which shows an age profile of our quarterly revenue. Today, 60% of revenues comes from customers that have signed up more than 3 years ago. That tells you 2 things: retention matters, especially for high-end customers; and product quality is a major part of that retention. Our focus is not on short-term spikes. It's on efficient market share growth that builds a loyal, long-duration customer base. Turning to the economics. Income is stated after bonuses and loyalty costs, which represent about 15% of gross revenue. From there, gaming tax and irrecoverable VAT together account for roughly 20% of income. Volume-related third-parties and banking software costs are about 22%. Marketing, people and operating costs are another 23%. These costs are under our control and are somewhat scalable. The result for this year has been a 35% operating margin in 2025, generating ZAR 744 million of operating profit with a model that will scale as volumes grow. So how are we managing that scalability? By taking greater ownership of the technology real estate and shifting the cost base from a high OpEx cost model to more scalable fixed cost structure. This includes ZAR 100 million to ZAR 150 million per annum investment in technology and product, greater ownership of our technology and targeted system upgrades. We have a solid pipeline of upgrades to come over the next 3 years, which will see an end-to-end review of all our tech infrastructure to ensure it's modern, scalable and secure. We are also bringing technology much closer to the land-based casinos with projects that touch on loyalty and a combined single wallet for a true omnichannel experience. The outcome of this investment will be material revenue uplift as well as up to ZAR 100 million in annual cost savings over time and a materially more scalable platform. Finally, none of this works without responsibility. This is applicable across the portfolio, but more specifically online. We are committed to being the most responsible operator in the market, leading the dialogue both on and off the field. The health and welfare of our customer base is of paramount importance, and we've seen that the long-term value of customers is key. But what can we do as operators to oversee this? It's not about the quantum of spend. What's reasonable for one customer is irresponsible for another. We are looking at changes in behavior, increasing stakes, increasing deposits outside of norms. AI is increasingly helping us to identify these markers of harm and behavioral changes. Education, proactive tools and lessons from international case studies all inform our approach. This is supported by our responsible gambling charter because the health and welfare of our customers is fundamental to our long-term sustainability. In summary, SunBet operates in a large, fast-growing market. We have moved from building our foundations to becoming a product leader. Our strategy is product-led, technology-driven and highly scalable. The economics are attractive, the returns are material, and the growth runway is long. We believe SunBet can be a material value driver of Sun International over the next 5 years, and we are executing this with discipline to make that happen. Thank you.

Thanks again to Simon. So we're building up in making sure we have a lot more clarity. We've heard from land-based casinos. We've heard from SunBet. But now let's hear from Sun Slots. To get some perspective on a business that remains cash generative, please warmly welcome to the front of the stage, Mr. Felix Mthembu, the CEO of Sun Slots.

Thank you, Gugu. Good afternoon, all. Just for a quick introduction of the Sun Slots business and some background of the LPM industry, is where I'm going to start. We are a dominant player in the market with 6 route-operator licenses across 4 provinces being in the Western Cape, in KZN, in Gauteng and in Mpumalanga. In total, we have about 5,000 LPMs across 850 sites, which range from pubs, bars, taverns and small restaurants and more interestingly, also into sports betting outlets and tote outlets. And the LPM business differs from the land-based casino in terms of the market we service. In that, people, that frequent our sites, go there for leisure and gambling really being an alternative activity. Our machines also offer a limited stake and prize, which is another differentiator to casinos. And lastly, we do not invest in bricks and mortar based on the business model that we have. Now just moving to how the LPM market has evolved over the years and how Sun Slots has been and continues to be part of that evolution. We have seen good quality growth over the last few years with LPMs now contributing over ZAR 4 billion annually towards gambling in South Africa. Sun Slots makes up about 35% of this pot. The growth has been slowed down by a significant shift in Punter spend, as you heard earlier, driven by growth in online sports betting. The LPM sector is expected to experience slower growth into the future, and this is shaped more by regulatory limitations and economic conditions rather than by demand. So we believe the demand still exists. Now through the various initiatives contained in our section of the value creation plan that Ulrik touched on, Sun Slots is expecting to grow and make further inroads into the market. The question is, what is it that makes us a stable and cash-generative business that we are? We are a well-established operation with a good footprint that gives us a strong local market presence. Our unique gaming customer base allows us to service a sector that is different to that of casinos and online. So we believe that we can continue to coexist with land-based casinos and our online counterparts. Our success is further driven by the meticulous site selection, strong partnerships we have with site owners and a service-driven Sun Slots team. The sites that we actually partner with are the backbone of our business. We have, over the times, delivered stable margins, which we achieved through an optimally run business with premium products and machine yields that are in line with the industry at large. The above have also allowed us to deliver good earnings and to generate cash over the years. So how do we intend to continue unlocking further value in Sun Slots? We are focused firstly on growing our top line, our revenue growth through improved site selection and driving footfall at sites. Again, the importance here is making sure that the sites that we partner with are thriving and they continue to grow in their primary businesses. Growing market share is part of our focus through very many strategic initiatives that are currently underway. Also by investing in new forms of gambling such as extended gameplay and historical horse racing, or commonly known HHR, which is similar to LPMs in look and feel, uses tote licenses as a base of launching, but with no limitations on bets and on stakes. This space of HHR is currently picking up momentum, and we are closely engaging with all the stakeholders to ensure that once all the regulatory requirements are met, we are ready to roll out. We will, at some point, improve margins through better machine mix. I'm saying we will, through -- at the same time, improve margins through better machine mix, LPM yields that will be above that of industry and optimizing our operations further. Further, we'll deploy new technologies such as Punter Apps and digital wallets. And this again talks to the omnichannel strategy that my colleagues have also touched on. Just to conclude and to summarize our value creation deliverables at Sun Slots. We will remain a cash-generative business going forward. We will drive top line, as I said, we are managing our costs, and our margins are showing improvement. We'll grow market share, both from existing sites, especially through Type B licenses that have recently been launched in the Western Cape. We believe there's demand in the Western Cape and there's currently capacity based on the license allocation that we have. We will achieve the targeted IRRs on new investments -- invested CapEx. And lastly, we will invest in new value-adding technology solutions that will assist both our sites and our processes. Thank you very much.

Thanks again to Felix for giving us some detail into Sun Slots specifically. But we're building up to get a lot more detail regarding our company and most importantly, the various levers. And this time around taking a look at the recent refurbishments that have taken place at some of our landmark resorts. But outside of that, we also have a number of significant hotels that add to the hospitality portfolio. To cast a light on where we're headed in this direction, please warmly welcome to the front of the stage, recently appointed COO of Hospitality & Sales, Nomzamo Radebe. A warm welcome to her, please.

Good afternoon, everyone. Sun International has a portfolio that comprises of 12 iconic resorts and hotels over a broad South African footprint. The portfolio is well established in the market with a stable demand base, which presents an opportunity to optimize asset productivity and revenue generation. Reflecting on tourism. South Africa's tourism sector is experiencing steady growth, demonstrating resilience driven by rising international arrivals, increased domestic spending and higher hotel occupancy. This is evidenced by the increased tourism contribution of close to 9% of the total GDP in 2024, and this compares favorably to almost 7% contribution of tourism to the total GDP in 2023. Encouragingly, from a domestic perspective, domestic travel spend continues to grow by 6% year-on-year, amounting to about ZAR 133 billion, supported by local promotional campaigns and improved household incomes. The expanded flight routes, targeted global marketing efforts and relaxed travel restrictions have fueled the surge in international tourism, resulting in significant growth of close to 30% in international arrivals in September 2025. This connectivity -- air connectivity improvement as well as the improved e-visa process points to a positive trajectory for South Africa's tourism in the long term, presenting Sun International an opportunity to optimize yields and create premium experiences for our guests. All these factors mentioned create a favorable environment for our business. Turning to strategy. We will reshape and optimize the hospitality portfolio by growing revenues and improving the efficiency of the operations by implementing 3 key value drivers. The first key value driver will be to continue to invest in core properties to grow revenue and enhance operating margins. This entails executing on a yield optimization strategy of driving total revenues per guest by improving occupancy, applying dynamic pricing and really optimizing the room mix. This will leverage on the sustained traveler interest and our ability to adapt to changing guest preferences and market conditions. We will also continue with targeted refurbishments and developments. But of course, these refurbishments and capital investment will be return-led with the payback discipline supporting them. Turning to our second key value driver, which entails changing the business model to improve operating margins. We will improve the usage of real estate and leverage on the fixed cost base to grow various revenue streams. Also, we will have increased focus on the efficacy of major expense line items to improve operating margins, which can be realized through procurement efficiencies, through economies of scale and other targeted initiatives. Turning to our third key value driver, which will be to find or formulate solutions for underperforming properties. This could entail revising our operating models for the underperforming assets which we are already looking at to improve the profitability, but also it will be to also review our ownership structures of the portfolio with the objective of simplification. Now turning to Sun City. Having outlined our key value drivers, I wish to provide an update on the performance. With regards to gaming, we have observed a continued benefit of the gaming floor optimization and various initiatives, which are really setting us up for significant revenue growth going into the future. On the Hospitality, the continued revenue growth is driven by The Palace and Sun City Hotel occupancies. And this is also complemented by various food and beverage growth initiatives that have been rolled out during the year. Furthermore, the resort has a stable customer demand base and has benefited from the growth in international travel segment. Sun City has a diverse and optimal entertainment mix, which is well received by the customers. Lastly, when one considers the capital investment, targeted refurbishments have happened and are yielding the results. There's an improved hotel and related product offering that we have managed to achieve. And also our Sun Vacation Club product mix has consistently been sold out. Now turning to our value creation. One would ask ourselves, "What does success look like?" Well, we outline the performance metrics that will depict the success of the value creation plan, to achieve yield optimization, customer retention and customer lifetime value, cost and operational efficiency as well as the optimization of the return on capital invested. And we believe all of these will demonstrate how we grow revenue and result in margin expansion whilst repositioning our hospitality portfolio in the future. Thank you very much.

So it was quite clear, throughout the course of this morning, you've read the results, you've got a better understanding of the strategy of the business and the bold plans that we've put forward. We've remained profitable, we've rewarded shareholders, and we've also shared some bold ambitions with you. The big question is how do we look to ensure that we can attain this. A man who's helped us keep our powder dry will help us get clarity in terms of the financial metrics we'll look out for to measure return on investment and of course, understand our capital allocation. Please warmly welcome to the front of the stage the Group Chief Financial Officer of Sun International, Mr. Norman Basthdaw.

Thank you, everyone. So we've shown the strategy action across each part of the group. What I want to do in this section is to connect the dots. Our disciplined execution across the portfolio translates into sustainable financial outcomes and long-term value creation. At its core, the message is quite simple: We focus on high-quality growth. We manage margins with discipline. We convert earnings into cash. And we allocate capital in a way that keeps returns above our cost of capital through the cycle. So let's start with the portfolio view. Each business plays a different role as we've seen. We manage a diversified set of businesses. We've seen SunBet as our structural growth engine, driving product-led market share gains and operating leverage in a fast-growing online market. Our land-based casinos and Sun Slots provide resilient, predictable cash generation with high ROIC, driven by yield management, productivity improvements and disciplined CapEx. And in Hospitality, we are actively reshaping the portfolio, improving returns where we invest and exit noncore or value-dilutive assets where returns cannot be improved. With that portfolio in context, I will now link the operating story to the financial engine. So everything starts with quality revenue growth, customer-driven top line growth that remains resilient through the cycle. As revenue grows, operating leverage kicks in, which drives EBITDA growth. And as EBITDA grows, that supports margin expansion through scale, productivity and yield improvements. The outcomes that we are targeting is a clear sustainable uplift in margin -- EBITDA margins at the back end of the plan, anchored in consistent high-quality top line growth. So margin is one part, but how much of that operating performance turns into cash. So cash conversion underpins our financial flexibility. It's what allows us to fund growth, protect the balance sheet and return value to shareholders. We're targeting 55% to 60% conversion of EBITDA into free cash, and that's supported by disciplined working capital management. On CapEx, the message is discipline. Maintenance CapEx is controlled and prioritized, and growth CapEx is clearly linked to cash returns. So we manage to cash, not just accounting earnings. So once you have cash conversion, the next question is, are we deploying capital at returns above the cost of capital? So that's the ROIC discussion. So ROIC is a key lens we use. Sustainable value creation requires returns above the cost of capital through the cycle. We deploy capital to the highest return opportunities, and we assess performance explicitly relative to WACC. Over time, we expect ROIC to expand from the high teens into the 20-plus percent range, supported by the same levers we've discussed: quality growth, margin progression and strong cash conversion. So returns are the outcome. Technology is one of the key levers that delivers them. We fund technology through a disciplined mix of CapEx and OpEx, depending on where each model creates the most value. We've seen our annual IT CapEx is anchored around ZAR 200 million to ZAR 250 million. Importantly, technology investment is aligned to the role of each business, protecting the land-based core, scaling SunBet for operating leverage, maximizing cash and ROIC in Sun Slots, enhancing hospitality yield and strengthening group and central IT through shared platforms. So technology enables growth and efficiency. But capital allocation ensures that growth delivers returns. That discipline is reflected in our capital allocation framework. So all of this sits within a clear capital allocation framework designed to deliver our 5-year outcomes: revenue growth, margin expansion, strong cash conversion and ROIC above WACC. We sustain the core by funding maintenance and high-return organic initiatives. Our CapEx envelope through the cycle is around ZAR 0.9 billion to ZAR 1.2 billion. We allow selectively for growth, prioritizing opportunities that improve scale, competitive positioning and margins with every investment required to deliver returns above WACC. At the same time, we actively optimize the portfolio, considering exiting noncore or value-dilutive assets where returns cannot be improved. Balance sheet discipline underpins this approach with leverage target at around 2x adjusted EBITDA through the cycle. And shareholders -- shareholder returns remain integral. We maintain a 75% AHEPS payout ratio while retaining capacity for value-accretive growth. Where excess capital is nonrecurring, we return it through share buybacks and special dividends when that enhances long-term value. When you combine quality growth, margin progression, cash conversion and return-led allocation, you get a compounding value engine. Our approach to returning excess capital is disciplined and value-led. We prioritize a sustainable ordinary dividend of 75% of AHEPS. Where the share price trades at a material discount to intrinsic value, we will execute buybacks to enhance shareholder value. And when excess capital is nonrecurring and not required for growth or balance sheet resilience, we return it through special dividends. So for 2025, this translated into a total dividend of ZAR 4.24 per share amounting to ZAR 1.1 billion. Also, a special dividend of ZAR 1.00 per share totaling ZAR 256 million, which was really funded by nonrecurring excess capital, capital that we received from our LatAm investment, has a contingent payment. So the Board has also approved a 3-year share buyback program of up to 2% of shares per annum under strict pricing and liquidity discipline. So all of this is achieved while preserving balance sheet capacity to fund accretive opportunities and maintain leverage discipline. So all of this reflects disciplined execution, and that is the execution that ultimately compounds value for shareholders. So when you bring this all together, quality growth, margin progression, cash conversion and return-led capital allocation, you get a compounding value engine. Disciplined execution is key in translating higher quality earnings, raising ROIC and strong cash generation. The cash provides flexibility, supporting dividends, capital returns and balance sheet resilience while preserving upside optionality. So as execution delivers against our stated financial objectives, we believe valuation gaps will close, creating scope for meaningful re-rating driven by compounding earnings, cash flow and returns. So let me close by summarizing what success looks like over the next 5 years and the financial outcomes we're targeting. So in terms of revenue growth of 6% to 8%, this is really driven by portfolio mix optimization rather than volume-led or capital-intensive expansion. Each business plays a distinctive role. SunBet is a primary structured growth engine and well supported by the other segments of the business. The blended outcome of high-growth online, optimized land-based and Hospitality assets and stable LPM revenues supports a sustainable 6% to 8% group CAGR while increasing capital intensity -- sorry, without increasing the capital intensity. With regards to the EBITDA margin improvements of approximately 29% at the back end of the plan, this is really driven by operating leverage, mix shift and productivity rather than cost optimization alone. So mix shift towards higher-margin digital revenue as SunBet scales, margin expansion being a product of strategic execution and scale. So if we look at EBITDA to free cash conversion of 55% to 60%, that is really structurally embedded in the operating model through the following: disciplined maintenance CapEx; technology investment using optimal mix of CapEx and OpEx, depending on the value that it creates; and the annual IT CapEx as indicated. Working capital discipline is key. Sun Slots' predictable cash flows also supports the group cash flow generation. The portfolio increasingly converts earnings into cash as growth shifts towards digital and CapEx is tightly aligned to returns, enabling consistent funding of growth and shareholder returns. Our ROIC improvement to 20% plus range is the central organizing principle of this strategy. Capital is allocated strictly to opportunities exceeding WACC. The SunBet ROIC will improve materially as scale is achieved. Our land-based and hospitality ROIC improves through optimizing existing assets and targeted divestitures of value-dilutive noncore assets improves portfolio returns and capital efficiencies. Our ROIC expansion is supported simultaneously by margin uplift, cash conversion and disciplined capital deployment, not by growth alone. Our net debt to adjusted EBITDA of 2x through the cycle is supported by strong and predictable free cash flow generation, which funds growth internally and the capital allocation framework that prioritize balance sheet resilience. Growth investment is phased and sequenced, particularly in SunBet, with spend aligned to delivery milestones. So leverage is a consequence of disciplined execution, not a constraint, hence, preserving flexibility across the cycle. The circa ZAR 800 million phased investment in the value creation plan is concentrated in technology, product and high-return operational initiatives rather than the bricks-and-mortar expansion. Spend is self-funding with early benefits already been seen, particularly in SunBet and land-based productivity. And we'll see the full run rate of that by 2030. So in closing, these KPIs are not independent targets. They are integrated financial outcomes of the strategy already presented. Together, they form a repeatable value compounding engine, translating execution in sustainable shareholder returns over the 5 years' period. So thank you.

Before you do disappear, we want you to stay on stage because in a moment, you will be helping us address some key questions that we have, perhaps if you can have a seat in one of the chairs. And most importantly, we welcome back the CEO to give us some insight and to help us conclude much of the information that we've been able to absorb today, especially when it comes to answering a question that's important to all of you here in the room: why Sun International is good for you? So I guess, Ulrik, in closing, the investment case for Sun International as a business.

Thank you very much before you get out to see the real business out there, just summarize this day. Thank you all for joining, first of all. It's been an incredible privilege for us to have you all here and be able to tell our story. The investment case behind Sun International is very clear: We are a market leader with scale, operating a diversified portfolio. We have a rapidly scaling, growing online gaming business that are really well positioned. We're driving market share in that business through -- powered through technology and product in a very capital-light model. On top of that, there is additional opportunity for that business outside of South Africa across the African continent. Third, we are a product- and technology-led omnichannel gaming platform. The word platform is really important because as an omnichannel group, the platform is our proprietary ecosystem. We want to keep our customers on the Sun platform, whether it's land-based or online. We're leveraging our dominant land-based footprint to drive that customer acquisition and retention online and again, creating a proprietary platform ecosystem. As a group, we have the required scale to deliver sustainable value. Number four, we are a very strong cash generator. We've proven that year after year after year, and we will continue to do that. We have very strong cash conversion. And number five, as Norman has talked about, we are disciplined with our capital allocation, and we want to make sure that we continue to deliver market-leading returns. We have very clear financial metrics to guide us. And you heard from Norman, we have a significant opportunity for significant revenue growth, margin expansion and compounding returns. The disciplined capital allocation that Norman talks about really is about prioritizing shareholder returns. But we want to make it very clear. We also set enough funding for us to organically grow the business. And the final piece is sort of the Avesta story for us, we have an advantaged organization. We have the right capabilities, the right ways of working, the right operating model to win in this market. So in summary, Sun International today is a stronger, more dynamic and more focused group than it's been in years. We have a clear plan how to unlock value in this group. This plan is funded, and we have put a team in place to deliver it. Winning is about people, customers and execution, and we have already moved decisively on all 3 fronts. So thank you so much for listening and taking the time, and we'll now do a short Q&A.

100%. Thanks so much, Ulrik. Thanks again for that, Ulrik. And I can imagine for many of you here in the audience, this is the moment you've been waiting for. We've absorbed quite a bit of information, have a lot more clarity in terms of the strategic direction of Sun International. And this brings us to an opportunity where we have about 15 minutes on the clock to engage you on some of the questions that you'd like to have addressed. Now we are mindful that there is an investor roadshow in the upcoming days and weeks ahead where there will be an opportunity for more robust engagement, a lot more detail to be added to some of the engagements that we have. But to those of you in the room, if you do have any questions, please feel free to raise your hand. Our colleagues from the technical team will be able to address your questions. But those of you online are more than welcome to send through your questions too. We've been talking about being digitally enabled. And perhaps if it's not evident, I've got 2 iPads with me. So send through your questions, we will be able to address them with the team. But as the microphone moves around -- sir, you've got a question? Perhaps let's start with you, sir, if you could introduce yourself and go ahead with your question?

[ Sean ] [indiscernible] here from JPMorgan. I've got 3 questions, if you don't mind, all related within the online space. So I think you mentioned that online gambling sits at about ZAR 50 billion and is expected to double by 2030. And if you look at SunBet's market share at about 4.5%, it's also expected to double. Now my question is, how will this move your ranking up if every player grows in line with the market? Because essentially, everyone's market share would have doubled. So that's the first question. And then the second question is, if you could please speak about the different components within the ZAR 50 billion market. So i.e., what is the proportion of sports betting, given that that's the part of the category where you're underrepresented within SunBet? And then my last question is around -- it builds on the previous 2, basically. Who are the #1, 2, #3 market players within online? What products do they have that make them to be the market leaders? Is it a function of a bigger pie in sports? Or were they just at the forefront in terms of that category, what appeals to customers? Speak about some of the attributes within the market on that as well.

Thank you so much for your questions, [ Sean ]. Fully loaded there. We will make sure that we can address them. I guess, Ulrik, open to you, but also bear in mind that we do have members of the executive team who can address some of that.

So let me address that, and I'll try to untangle each one of them one by one. So first of all, we're not saying we're going to double SunBet because SunBet -- we're saying we're going to double SunBet's market share. I don't think everyone is going to double their market share. Maybe they are. They have the plans for that, but we have a very clear plan for how we are going to double market share in a market that is also doubling. So that's actually something different from what you said. In terms of sports, so we think that -- it's a little bit harder to entangle exactly the size of the sports market, but we think it's roughly 30% of the total market today. And within SunBet today, our share of sports is less than 15%. So there's absolutely in that market share gain discussion, an opportunity for us to improve on our sportsbook offering and our sportsbook execution. So that's one of the drivers. In terms of your last question, which is product more broadly, it really is about the things we talked about here today, trust, stability, but also the basics of speed, navigation and to some extent, content, but maybe to a lesser extent now. So it's about those basic product features that needs to be brought up to par. And we know from across the world that actually it sounds very simple that speed is the #1 differentiator in products in many cases. So we have a lot of work to do on that. And in order to be able to deliver that, we also need fundamentally better underlying technology. And that's what Leslie has outlined when he was talking about rebuilding platforms and front end. And I think if you were to go on our SunBet site today and compare that with what would be best-in-class, even on the interface, you will immediately see that there are improvement opportunities on what would be best-in-class expectations from customers, not only in betting, but also on your Sixty60 app or whatever you're using. So we just -- we got to bring that forward. Now the good news is we're doing really well without being best-in-class on some of these areas. So we are pretty confident that we have a good chance to reach those targets.

Got you. Thank you so much, Mr. [indiscernible] for your question. There's another question behind you. If the mic could get to you, sir. Thank you.

It's Tinashe Hofisi from Standard Bank [indiscernible] Securities. Just on the regulatory section, there was an interesting point that was made that within the U.K. context environment, taxes are normally reshaped, but are not likely undermine the industry. But for a developing market like South Africa and with a slightly higher mix of the illicit gambling market, how feasible is a 40% tax rate? So that's number one. And also number two, in terms of the advertising restrictions, how are you managing this in terms of risk, in terms of your growth, in terms of incurring growth risks? And also, what measures are you likely going to implement in terms of trying to mitigate the advertising risks?

Thank you so much, Tinashe. I'm hoping the audio was clear there.

Yes. So let me -- I didn't quite understand your first question, to be honest and not your last either. But for the second one about advertising, we are not a marketing driven. We don't have a marketing-driven engine. You don't see us at billboards at airport. That's not how we grow SunBet. We grow SunBet through product and very strong and good digital marketing. So those restrictions that primarily is intended to tone down the volume on advertising in the country doesn't quite hit us the same way as some of our competitors. So that's one aspect of it. The other aspect is, of course, that if it's the same game playing field for everyone, ultimately, it's actually a cost saving, right? So net-net, it might even be beneficial. I don't know if Simon picked up the other 2 questions, if he's...

Yes. So maybe to add, I think, Tinashe, you spoke about the 20% tax discussion?

Yes.

I think, again, in terms of that, there's a whole lot of engagement around that on that matter. I think when we came out with our statement upfront, we said that the industry needed to be engaged on that matter. You can't make a bilateral decision like that. And we've seen from the presentation of Grainne that the markets and the operators adapt to those things. So we don't think it's -- probably is not going to get to the 20%, but if there's a slight increase in tax, we will adapt and operating within those markets. Yes.

Okay. So then I get the question. Sorry. Just to follow on to that. And I think also what's really important when it comes to that entire discussion is not to put the cart before the horse because we need to first have a national legislation and the framework where operators operate within, so we know what the rules are, then we can discuss, okay, how do we tax this regulated environment. But right now, we don't have that. So it's a little bit sort of -- there's a lot of work to be done from all players to sort of get this in order, so to speak. And like we said before, we embrace that. We want to be part of that. We think it's beneficial to us. And we are reasonably sort of -- we have a reasonably clear view on how this is going to play out. Simon, do you want to add something? Okay. You're good.

Got you. We're happy to take another question from the room where the roving mic is available. If your hand is raised, please raise it a little higher. It's just easier for myself and my colleagues to identify you. We'll come to you, sir. As the mic does move, there is just one question that has come up online from [indiscernible] from Nitrogen Fund Managers. This one perhaps Simon or yourself on the stage could actually respond to. It asks, what is the split between the sportsbook and casino games within SunBet in terms of revenue or profits? And what is SunBet's market share of just casino games in the South African market?

So the first one, I think I sort of broadly answered. We were less than 15%. Simon, do you want to take the second one, give a view of that?

What is SunBet's market share of just casino games in the South African market?

Yes, that's going to be really difficult to answer.

That's why I gave it to you.

Yes, we would be 15%. Perhaps the -- some of the other operators, like Betway, have got a higher sports percentage than we would. Again, Hollywoodbets probably got a lower. So yes, we've probably got disproportionately low on the sports and a higher percent on the casino side, but that represents our heritage and the acquisition of omnichannel players into SunBet over the last couple of years.

Fantastic. Perhaps the mic can move back to you, sir, and we can get your question before coming to another question online.

Perfect. This is [ F.C. ] from Avior Capital Markets. I just want to stick on the online. You guys mentioned ZAR 100 billion by FY '30 in online GGR. And what regulatory landscape would that be? Would there be marketing curbs in there, tax? Like, what are the landscape we're looking at for that growth? And then also with the marketing of the market share gain from 4% to 8%, we see marketing expenses with 16% increase for year-over-year. Is that what we should expect going forward to gain that market share? Or is it going to become more aggressive going forward? And then maybe just lastly would be on the land-based casinos, also where you have some guidance in actual growth in land-based casino GGR. Maybe just some guidance on why that would come through as well.

Okay. So on the first one, that's the total market, right? So I think then the regulation will determine what part of that is offshore, illegal and in market. So Grainne, you talked about channelization. In 100% channelization, market is ZAR 100 billion. So that's yet to be determined. It depends on how the regulator act and how much leakage we will see over time in that. So I think that's the first part of that. In terms of marketing spend, we have in our plan 2 investments, one investment for SunBet, one investment in technology over the 5-year period, to build all the product and technology Leslie is talking about. We also have somewhat increasing market spend at certain periods. But on the flip side, we also have scale. As we roll out new technology, we are getting rid of some of the variable costs we currently have today to pay for platforms, et cetera, et cetera. So you can sort of think about those as sort of broadly speaking, neutralizing.

Yes. I think in terms of the -- your question around the growth in land-based casinos in terms of revenue, I think it really comes to the detail that Mark went through in his presentation. And that's really around the optimization of things like the casino floor, our products that we're going to be putting on the machine, the retraining of our people. I think Mark mentioned shaving off 1 second of the dealers will translate into ZAR 5 million per annum. Yesterday in the dry run, I thought it was ZAR 5 million per month, but he corrected me, so it's ZAR 5 million per annum. And I'm pretty sure Mark's got a couple of other of those efficiency enhancements that he's got in his back pocket that he hasn't told us about. So that is going to be driving that land-based casino revenue.

Fantastic. Happy to take one more question from the floor as the mic does make its way to you, sir. I just want to address a quick question that's coming online from Vunani Securities, Kuxonga Phakula, asking specific, I guess, for you here, Norman, has the SARB provided any feedback or potential conditions that might affect the timing or approval of the special dividend? This, in particular, is related to your interest expenses being high, just over ZAR 500 million. How sensitive is this new year guidance, especially in alignment to interest rate fluctuations ahead of the transition to ZARONIA?

Yes. So I think in terms of the SARB's approval of our special dividends, we've already put our application through as soon as the Board approved it. So generally, our [ excon ] advisers, it probably takes about 10 days or so. We're working quite closely with them. So we should get the approval in that case. In terms of our interest costs, our interest costs actually -- I think that was the next question?

Yes.

So our interest cost has come down from the prior year. I think it was about 16% to 19% that we decreased our interest costs. And if you look at where we are at our growth in our EBITDA to our growth in our earnings, that was one of the big contributing factors to our growth in our earnings, was the interest cost. So there's always going into -- before we've had these issues, with geopolitical issues, et cetera, we were actually looking at probably another 1 or 2 interest cuts. But during the past year, at the end of 2025, we refinanced our debt. So we reprofiled the payment profile of the debt, and we did it at an interest reduction. So our lenders really came through. And that shows the confidence of the markets in our debt paper. In terms of transitioning to ZARONIA, we've actually built in all of those checks and balances in our refinancing documents that we concluded. So I think we're well covered and working with our lenders on that part.

Fantastic. We'll take one more question. I noticed that the mic had come this way. We'll do our best to squeeze it in as we are under pressure for time. But please go ahead, sir.

I'm [ Keenan ] from Investec. Just 3 questions. How big is the illegal market in SA? Are you seeing any channel shift from the illegal market into the legal market? Is that driving some of the industry growth? So that's the first one. The second one is, you had a slide of financial targets up for the group. Have you baked the level of national GGR tax rate into that? And then the last one is in your global experience working with these betting markets and in your interactions with the SA government, is this a short-term, medium-term, long-term story in terms of getting the regulation framework for South Africa? Or do you see this dragging on for a period of time.

Fantastic.

The second -- the last question is important. Because when you're in gaming or any industry that are slightly difficult for some people to get their heads around, this is business as usual. This is what we do. I cannot sit here and say that we are going to go through a phase over the next 3 years when we get a robust national legislation, and that's it. We haven't seen that anywhere else. It's -- like Grainne has talked to before, it's a continuous sort of evolution. And it's not all bad also, right? There's upsides in that where regulated companies get some benefits to compete that, for example, advertising that illegal operators offshore cannot access various advertising channels and so forth. So it's a little bit of both, and we've seen some easing of regulation in some countries, in particular in land-based and retail. So this will evolve over a long period of time. I think the important thing, though, is for this country to get a national legislation in place as a starting point. So we know what the rules of the games are, and then we can jointly sort of evolve that. Do you want to take the GDP question?

Sorry. The GDP question was? I didn't quite get that.

No. It was...

The GGR -- essentially, the targets that were listed on the slide....

Have we baked in any of the potential risks? I think the targets that we've shown there is really operating through the cycle. So there's -- we've kind of considered all of the various risks, not only in the online business, but in the various businesses. And when we formulated those targets, we considered all of the risk. So it's through the cycle targets that we've put out for you.

100%. Thank you so much. We'll have to wrap it there for the moment only because we're under pressure for time, but there will be further opportunity for ongoing engagement with management, not only throughout the course of today, but also in the upcoming roadshows that you will be able to participate in. So again, Tinashe, [ Sean ] and [ Keenan ], thank you so much for your questions as well as [indiscernible] for your questions online. We are aware that there are more questions, and we will endeavor to ensure that management will be able to respond to them during the later sessions today. According to my clock, unfortunately, we have to wrap it there for today. So again, a big thank you to the executive leadership team of Sun International at large, giving us some insight into the strategy. Most importantly, thank you to you. Key propellers and enablers of capital, investing in businesses like Sun International to ensure that they continue to not only generate value for shareholders, but most importantly, make an impact in an economy like ours and beyond. To those of you joining us online, thank you again for your time. Do keep your questions coming through. Any unanswered questions or questions that we haven't been able to get through due to time will be able to be addressed by our Investor Relations team. Nwabisa will be able to offer feedback by e-mail in the days to come, but there will also be an opportunity for those here in the room to have an opportunity to engage management during the course of today. As we say goodbye to our team online and those joining us, to those of you who are here, we also want to encourage you to stay behind because there will be a networking session and an opportunity to speak to management a little later as you make your way to Tiger's Milk. Through here, you'll have an opportunity to ask some of your questions, but also bear in mind that there is a roadshow scheduled with many of your institutions on an individual basis where a lot more robust engagement can take place. Another update I'd like to share with those of you who are present in the room. You might note that you have colored handbands. Those particular handbands or bands on your hands illustrate the various teams that you'll join for a site tour and site visit. You'll have the opportunity to explore much of the refurbishments. The opportunity, the strategy we've discussed here today, you'll be able to interact and see it, feel it and experience it directly. So please do join a team outside. There will be guidance as to which particular site and starting time you have, but most importantly, starting within different places in the venue. The site visit will take at least 30 minutes, offering you all an opportunity to interact with the casino and most importantly, the opportunity to experience much of what has been explained today, following which there will be a networking session here at Tiger's Milk. You make your way back, interact, engage and have an opportunity as well to engage with management. Thank you so much for joining us, ladies and gentlemen. We appreciate your time, your collaboration, your partnership and the questions that you've asked, many of which will continue to be addressed in the days and weeks to come. But thank you again for your time and joining us today. And perhaps to close it off all for us, Ulrik, I'll leave it to you to have a final word for today.

Site visit is only 30 minutes, not 60, don't worry.

Did I say 60?

Yes.

I got ahead of myself. Maybe because...

We have a lot of things to show, but I think 30 minutes is enough. All right. Hopefully, you can join outside, and we'll see you at Tiger's Milk or along the site visit. Please join us. Thank you.