Tata Communications Limited (TATACOMM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good evening, and welcome to the Tata Communications Limited Q1 FY '27 Earnings Conference Call. The results for the quarter ending 30th June 2026 have been announced, and the data pack is available on our website. [Operator Instructions] And this conference is being recorded. We have with us today from the management team, Mr. Ganesh Lakshminarayanan, MD and CEO. Mr. Siddhartha Mundra, CFO; Mr. Rajiv Sharma, Head of Investor Relations; and Ms. Sudeshna Patnaik, DGM, Investor Relations. We will begin the call with opening remarks from MD and CEO, Mr. Ganesh, followed by CFO, Mr. Siddhartha on the company's business and financial performance. Post that, we will open the floor for questions for the management. In the event that the management line drops, we request participants to stay connected while we reconnect them to the meeting. Some of the statements made in today's call may be forward-looking in nature and are subject to risks and uncertainties. The company does not undertake to update these forward-looking statements publicly. I now hand the call over to Ganesh. Over to you, sir.

Thanks, Inba. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us. It's now 100 days since I took over as the CEO on April 14. The best advice I got when I started here, was meet as many customers and teams as you can in the 100 days. Listen and learn, then build the team, then build a plan simple enough that everyone understands and then deliver the plan. Over these 100 days, I have met all of our teams across 15 cities. I have sat down with more than 100 customers across the globe. Almost all of them are global Forbes 2000 customers, and they span across industries, BFSI, manufacturing, entertainment, retail. And I've learned a lot. Let me start with the learnings from those customers. I think I've learned 4 important things from my meetings. One, the customers today, they want solutions that sticks together various products that can deliver real outcomes. For example, when I met with the CEO of a big automotive company, the CEO wanted us to bring a solution that will bring the total cost of connected cars down. He described the cars of the future as software on wheels. And if you look at this solution, which Tata Comm can uniquely bring, this will involve an onboard edge compute, a multimodal connectivity using our MOVE platform, a cloud compute and security. It spans across the products we have. The second thing is the customers. They want a global organization that can serve them in multiple markets. Third, they also want undivided attention from a true B2B concept company, a B2B company, one which is not distracted by their B2C challenges. And finally, and the most important of all, customers want platforms that enable programmable infrastructure. They want to consume the infrastructure using APIs and even better using AI agents talking to each other. These lessons and the customers I met have helped me to create the team, which will take to the next phase of growth. Inba, if you could go to the next slide, please. Let me start with the structure we have come up with. The structure starts with customers on top and the MD and CEO at the bottom. Today, we serve 300 of the Fortune 500 customers, almost 400 of the ET 500 customers in India. Other interesting data point is 70% of India's live financial services, data traffic goes through our network. These are the customers we want to serve. So we have fully integrated the customer success group because to bring solutions, we want the customer success group to bring the product towers behind this so that they can stitch together the solutions that customers need. This groups spans across the globe. Each account will have a unique team owning the end-to-end customer relations, resales, sales, delivery, assurance across all geographies. The individual products, which will be used to create those solutions will operate under 4 distinct towers, the network, infra tower which is cloud and security, the interaction tower and services. Below them are all the functions which serves those customers, serve those who serve their customers. which is finance, legal, HR, strategy and transformation. Finally, the CEO at the bottom. I feel my job is to facilitate and energize all who are serving the customers above. This is not on paper. This is how we want to operate. Inba, if you go to the next slide, that is the structure, and we have the full 11 people -- it takes 11 people to build a cricket team. Now we have the full team of 11 people. On the top Sumeet Walia continues to lead our CSG group. He is a veteran of Tata Comm for more than 24 years. We are integrating all sales, presales marketing in every geography across all products into this group. Each one in this team will be responsible for our unique customer relationship. Rupesh Chokshi has joined us as our CTO and Head of Network business. Rupesh comes with tremendous experience from AT&T and Akamai. Network needs to come together with security and edge compute to offer the solutions our customers want. And we believe Rupesh brings the experience, the customer exposure and the business acumen to take this business to the next level. And I'm very also happy to say that he will be based in New Jersey because the U.S. market is very, very important for us. We have Vivek Srivastava joining us to lead our infra business. Security is a very, very important agenda for our customers. So we wanted to get someone who has a tremendous knowledge and experience in the security area. He comes with a rich experience in global security and infra companies like Fortinet and Cisco. He has been stitching solutions with company like Tata Communication globally, has been working very closely with us in the past. So Vivek will be joining us to lead the cloud and security portfolio. We have Vivek Manglik who has joined us to lead the Interaction business. Vivek is a Tata Comm veteran, who was part of the early team that built a very profitable interaction business. He joins us from Airtel where he led a similar business. Vivek has already started. Our new services BU, which we have created, it will deliver platform-led AI-enabled services. We don't want to build a services business which is linear and depend on people. We want to build a services business, which will be platform-led and which is AI-enabled. Agnel has been with the company for a long period of time. He is a Tata Comm veteran. He's done a tremendous job handling a similar portfolio for another vertical, and he's going to start building the services business, which can serve every customer starting from telcos, to enterprise, to OTTs. The rest of the functions are led by the same leaders. You know Sid, Aman has been our CHRO, Troy and Tri have served the company for a very long period of time. We're also bringing a Chief Transformation Officer which can look at the technology functions we have, CIO, CISO, AI center of excellence, business excellence group. We will be announcing that individuals shortly, mostly by this week, we will be able to tell you who that person is. If you look at the structure, it is simple enough. It's consistent customer experience through our customer success group. The solution we want to create will be built from these 4 product towers and the enabling functions will serve those who serve the customers. Our new structure is built around a single strategic imperative converting our scale into profitable growth. We feel we now have the team, which can carry Tata Communications on the next phase of growth. Inba, if you can go to the next slide, please. So I've learned from the customers, we have built the team. What is our plan? Our plan is CTC. When I say CTC, everybody thinks about cost to company, it's actually customer, team and company. One of the best and simplest pieces of advice, I learned from a previous leader of mine, you see, if we take care of our customers, energy and engage our team, the company will do well. So if you look at this on the top, the big whys for this year is about maintaining and enhancing our NPS, which we shared with you in the last call, is already industry leading, and we want to maintain and enhance further, improving our employee engagement scores again, which is in the top quartile for similar cohorts and driving profitable growth. These are the same metrics we have presented to the Board. These are the same metrics we'll get our bonus on, and we have rolled it out across the company. How do we do that? We have a few simple whats. First and foremost, we will accelerate the growth of our network business. The network business is the most profitable business we have in our portfolio, and that will drive EBITDA growth. We will drive profitability in our digital portfolio. You heard this from me in the last call as well, and we are committed to improving the profitability of our digital business. Again, it should help in our EBITDA growth. We will increase the mix of our platform business. The most exciting platforms we have, which is thread span, the commotion, our MOVE platform. These are the right areas for us to accelerate, which will again help us on the EBITDA growth. We are reorienting our sales teams. I mentioned how we are bringing all of this together. And we are aligning our sales team's incentives on sales contribution margin, which is basically net revenue minus all the spend they have. By aligning the sales teams on sales contribution margin, we want to land the right mix of our products again helping in our EBITDA growth. We will bring agility to our operations, the way we want to serve our customers and improve NPS is to cut the lead to cash time by 50%. We have taken a very aspirational goal that we will bring these solutions faster to market and fastest to customers. So that's the plan. Inba, if we go to the next slide, I want to talk about what we want to deliver for this year. Our priorities for this year are very, very clear. Profitable growth and drive stronger capital efficiency. Our first and primary goal is to maintain and enhance our customer experience because if we take care of our customers, we will have profitable growth. We want to build a stronger, more engaged and more energized team, which will act with the agility of a start-up, but the responsibility of a Tata company. We will measure that by our employee engagement scores. We aspire to deliver double-digit EBITDA growth this fiscal year, which is a meaningful step up from the performance we have delivered on the profitability side over the last several years. We'll maintain the disciplined focus on ROCE, free cash flows and capital allocation. So how are we doing on Q1 before I hand it over to Sid to go through the numbers, let me give you the color. Our customer wins continue to be robust. I want to call out some multimillion dollar marquee deals. One I'm very, very proud of is our platform strategy. Our platform strategy on -- is really seeing good progress with wins both across the Threadspan platform and the Commotion platform, which we recently acquired. We have 2 notable deals for Threadspan that I want to call out, one with a leading global card network company, other one is with a large Indian conglomerate. Threadspan brings a unified control plane for the CIOs to look at their entire asset in one single view, the inventory, the configuration and the monitoring, and it also helps us to deliver the platform-based AI-enabled service I talked about. Commotion, which is a really exciting product. The first set of use cases are around true enterprise-grade voice AI solution. It has helped us to win and expand with some key logos. For a leading Indian hospitality chain, we have deployed our enterprise voice AI agent for reservations across the domestic and international properties. With a general insurance company, we've also deployed the solution to increase the effectiveness of their leads. The one thing I want to call out is these are not voice bots. These are enterprise voice AI agents closely tied to the enterprise data, working on real business cases that deliver real ROI. For a large battery manufacturer, we have won an industrial connectivity deal involving managed WiFi and LAN infrastructure. This integrated network modernization, which combines LAN and WAN is a clear strength area for us. This is for a gigafactory. They are setting it up new. And it also brings together the IT OT solution, which is, again, a big opportunity for us. As I called out in the last quarter, we continue to see momentum from GCC customers. We closed repeat business from existing GCC customers and also won new customers in this segment. These wins position us strongly as partners for growth for enterprise. On specific numbers for Q1. Our data revenue grew more than 11%, 11.3%, propelled by healthy growth in both core connectivity and digital platforms. Our core connectivity revenue grew almost 6% year-over-year, the highest in the last 10 quarters. The digital portfolio grew at about 17%. I -- our Interaction business delivered a strong growth at 32%. I'm really proud of the growth in our next-gen connectivity platforms, like the multi-cloud connect fabric, Threadspan, multi-cloud networking, which grew almost 31% year-over-year. In my visits, one thing that has become very clear is the market is placing a premium on platforms that simplify the complexity for enterprises, makes the infrastructure programmable, not provisioned. You all saw we recently saw a global peer of ours spent nearly $0.5 billion to acquire capabilities in cloud and data center orchestration. What others are now acquiring, we have been building it over the last few years. Our multi-cloud connectivity, multi-cloud networking and Threadspan platforms are already embedded in our next-gen services, and more importantly, these are not bolt-on platforms. This is combined with the strength of our global network. To us, this validates our strategy and reinforces that we have the right assets, both digital and physical, to drive the next phase of growth. I am pleased to share that profitability is seeing improvement. Normalized EBITDA margins for this quarter came at 13% year-over-year EBITDA growth. Over the last 2 quarters, our year-over-year average EBITDA growth has exceeded 10%. Largely, all parts of our digital portfolio are seeing improvement in their profitability. This is reassuring we are on the right track towards profitable growth. I want to leave you with a simple message. The team is in place. The plan is simple, clear, and it's aligned across the company. The opportunity is significant. The rest of the year is about execution. With that, let me hand to Siddhartha to take you through the quarter's performance and financial highlights.

Thank you, Ganesh. Let me start with the quarter performance. The Q1 FY '27 consolidated revenue came in at INR 6,583 crores, up 10.5% Y-o-Y. Data revenue for the quarter came in at INR 5,708 crores, a growth of 11.3% on a Y-o-Y basis. The top line has certain ForEx impacts accruing from a strengthening dollar. Normalizing for the same, the consolidated revenue saw a growth of 2.8% Y-o-Y, and data revenues saw a growth of 4.1% on a Y-o-Y basis. Core connectivity revenue is up 5.7% Y-o-Y. Core Connectivity segment has tailwinds driven by the DC to DC connectivity. During Q1, we successfully completed the implementation of our dedicated NLD network build for a large hyperscaler between 3 metros. We continue to actively engage on several large opportunities, which are expected to progress over the coming quarters. Based on the strength of the pipeline, we remain confident of maintaining our market share in the DC to DC connectivity solutions. Digital portfolio revenue is up 17.1% on a Y-o-Y basis. Media segment, in particular, was impacted by the cancellation of multiple sporting events because of the West Asia conflict. EBITDA for the quarter came in at INR 1,230 crores, up 8.2% Y-o-Y basis, and margins for the quarter came in at 18.7%. Our EBITDA has a one-off impact of INR 51 crores this quarter. This is attributable to a customer program, which had complexities which led to higher usage requirements and delays in delivery. The contract was signed 2 years back. We are making changes to ensure that our profitable growth momentum remains insulated from such isolated events in the future. Normalized for this, the EBITDA margin for the quarter is at 19.4% and the normalized EBITDA growth is 12.7% on a Y-o-Y basis. Normalized data EBITDA margins came in at 17.7%. The normalized digital portfolio EBITDA margins for this quarter stood at a negative minus 6.9% and is a significant improvement from our earlier periods. PAT for this quarter stood at INR 130 crores, and is impacted by INR 106 crores on account of some provisions. This includes provisions from losses arising from a fire incident at a co-located third-party data center premise and provision towards certain contractual obligations. We have insurance policies, which will cover the replacement cost of these damaged assets in the fire incident. FCF for the quarter was negative INR 443 crores, impacted by seasonality in working capital, but significantly better than Q1 of FY '26. We ended the quarter with net debt of INR 10,400 crores. Net debt-to-EBITDA stood at 2.12x. ROCE came in at 4.7%. On the subsidiaries, TCTS revenues were lower by 6.5% on a Y-o-Y basis. EBITDA margins improved by 300 basis points. TCR revenues were up 36.5% Y-o-Y, and EBITDA improved 19.3%. Overall, our quarter's performance has been robust, driven by both core connectivity and digital portfolio. We are starting to see green shoots of profitability across digital portfolio, as highlighted by Ganesh. Our objective is to deliver double-digit reported EBITDA growth this fiscal year. Inba, request you to open up the forum for Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] We take the first question from Sanjesh Jain of ICICI Securities.

Got a couple of questions, sorry. First on the double-digit EBITDA growth, Ganesh, what you spoke about, what are we looking at? Because you also hinted that last 2 quarters, we have grown at 10%. Are we looking at, what, 10%, 11% when you say double-digit growth? And a related question is how much of it will come from the revenue growth has been supported by the revenue growth because if we look at the adjusted growth in data revenue, adjusting for the currency, I think we mentioned some 4-odd percent growth Y-o-Y, which appears to be significantly inferior than what we thought a couple of years back in terms of how we want to shape up the revenue. So can you also help us understand how are you looking at revenue? We talked about green shoots in the profitability? Are there even green shoots in the revenue? That's my first question.

Thanks, Sanjesh. I'm actually very surprised. This is the second call, you have the first question for us. So you have some friends in the right place. Good to hear you. So the first question is, Sanjesh, very well, our business is a fixed cost business. So it's very difficult to deliver profitability with our top line growing. So it's not about cost reduction or anything which is really profitable. I think what we want to do is to land the right portfolio. You saw the priorities we have outlined. We want to grow the network business. We want to drive profitability in the digital business. We want our sales teams to be focused on contribution margin. I think as I outlined in my call and as well as in the AGM, in the last 2 phases of our company has been first about getting financial discipline, getting the balance sheet right, the last phase where we made acquisitions to diversify our portfolio. We have got 60% of our revenue coming from global businesses, more than half of our business coming from nonconnectivity business. I think we are entering into a phase where we want to get the operating leverage, get the right mix of our portfolio so that it drives profitability. So it is not a profitability growth without revenue growth, it is profitability growth coming with the right portfolio mix of revenue growth. That's the first thing I would say. The second thing you said is what is the perfect number. Sanjesh, you know we don't give forward guidance. I have actually set myself an aspirational target to grow double-digit EBITDA. Let us see. I think I would just leave at saying that we are focusing on absolute EBITDA growth. We are taking all the actions to get the mix right. We are hopeful that we can deliver accelerated EBITDA this year compared to what we have done in the past.

No, that's clear, Ganesh, but double-digit is quite a wide range, right, 10% to 99%. Some hint will be really helpful. I know we are not looking at guidance, but directionally, how should we think because the last 2 quarters has been in the range of 10%, 11%, 12%. That, again, really is not very inspiring growth probably to look at. But just some amount of clarity help will be very useful there.

I know Sanjesh, let me do this quarter. This is actually my first full quarter as a CEO, MD. Let's see how the Q2 goes, and I will definitely take this up post our H1 results.

But second question now jumping on to the segment. Cloud has been growing quite fast globally, and we had ourselves set a very high target for cloud and security business. I thought that's where we have a significant moat at strength, and we have done a lot of investment over the last few years, in terms of product portfolio and all. But again, if I look at the growth, a decline Y-o-Y, and that segment has been struggling now for over 4 to 6 quarter now. How should we think about it? Or what is not, which is going right in that segment and why it's not able to grow? And the base is really not the high. We are at a very modest base there.

I agree with you. I think the infrastructure business is where we could get maximum growth. I think the GPUs we have invested, we have had good wins. I think most of the GPUs have been sold out now. There is supply constraints in terms of us getting new GPUs in place. In the last period from what I understand, we had worked with other cloud players, now we want to really push our own Vayu Cloud. So I want to get this portfolio right so that we are not just looking at top line growth but delivering the real ROCE and profitability from this investment. I have promised you that in 6 months, we will come back and tell you the full strategy around the infrastructure business, overall business but more importantly, infrastructure. I am personally still bullish on we serving the sovereign infrastructure needs and the inferencing at the edge needs of our customers. We just have to get the right investment discipline around capital allocation. and the GTM right. So we're not saying that this is the business which got headwinds. I think it's a business which we should win. Let me just get the portfolio right, the mix right so that we are delivering a profitable cloud and security business.

Got it. Got it. One last question from my side before I join back the queue. How is the order book looking like? I mean we did mention that there's a good order book or a pipeline, which is visible in DC to DC connectivity. But overall, how is the sales funnel and order book looking for last 1, 1.5 years, it's been growing at double digit. What's performance of the order book in last 2 quarters?

I think the demand situation continues to be robust. From my 100 customers we have met our right to win in the platform area, which is MCC Fabric, DC to DC connectivity next-gen platforms is definitely there. I think the cable investments we have made is also creating us a supply to meet that demand. So our order book continues to be robust, but our focus is equally on accelerating the delivery engine and monetizing this deal sooner than later. We are seeing good wins across the segment. We are investing in cable. We are investing in platforms. I'm very confident that the demand situation is getting better. We have more ways to serve our customers. I think we'll get better.

That's very useful. Thanks for helping us understanding and best of luck for the coming quarters.

We take the next question from Vibhor Singhal of Nuvama Equities.

Thank you so much for this detailed presentation, Ganesh about the strategy that you are looking to undertake for the company. A couple of questions from my side. On the growth part, I think you mentioned in the opening remarks that -- and I think Sid probably mentioned this in the opening remarks that we are looking at opportunities from the DC to DC connectivity segment in the core connectivity business. Digital, of course, continues to basically grow strongly, especially in the next gen and the CPaaS business. So up till now, the understanding that we had for the Tata Comm digital data business was that core connectivity business will probably grow around 3% to 5% because it's kind of a saturated market. And of course, the industry itself is declining. -- but we will continue to grow somewhere in 3% to 5% kind of range because of the market share in our endeavors. And digital is the one which will be kind of pushing the growth envelope into double digit and maybe towards higher than meetings also. Does that mathematic change now to some extent, either for the positive or negative for different divisions because of the, let's say, the new opportunity in DC to DC connectivity or, let's say, some of the headwinds that you are seeing in the digital business.

Let me not use our headwinds on the digital business. Let me focus on the connectivity side of the business. I think in my customer conversations, it's very clear that -- they want to work with global contact company like us, which is purely focused on B2B because the quality of the network we have built, which serves exclusively the B2B demands is resonating well. Second one, which is very resonating is customers more and more, they don't want to build resilience by themselves. They want somebody like us. Number of stable strengths we have has allowed us to bring to market this dynamic DC to DC connectivity, which is a self-resilient and programmable platform. And you see that the 30% odd growth we are seeing is in this next-gen platforms. The DC to DC connectivity is our place and we have the right to win here. There are totally 112 data centers, which are Tier 3 and 4 DCs in India. We are connected to 102 carrier-neutral DCs and 6 captive DCs. And not only that it's the fiber strength, it's the platform we have built on top. The dynamic DC to DC connectivity is offering BFSI customers a network, which is fully resilient. They don't have to deal with multiple providers manage it. They come to Tata Comm. We give them this platform, which makes that network resilient. More importantly, which makes that network programmable. We have invested in assets which can make bandwidth go up and down based on the needs of the customer. Second thing we are seeing is that, the AI, which is coming in, is increasing the traffic between data center to data center, the east-west traffic, which we have talked about. The East-west traffic is best suited for us because we have the cable strength to monetize that demand. The East-West traffic needs deterministic latency, not small or big, but deterministic latency, a B2B-only network can provide the deferministic Latency, right? The platforms we have built, the multi-cloud connect and multi-cloud network. It is really helping customers to connect to 1 fabric, which is the overall MCC fabric we provide. And that fabric connects to 80% of the cloud locations globally. So if you are a bank and you spend a large portion of your spend on cloud, and that's going up significantly year-over-year. The CIOs are looking to this fabric to reduce the cost of connecting to cloud, reduce the iggres cost help them with flexibility, and we are winning in this space. So DC to DC connectivity is not about fiber. It is about the fiber. It's about the platforms we have built on top. The flexibility we have built to connect to multiple clouds, and the service we provide. Anybody can have a cable, but when there is a problem, you need somebody like Tata Comm with the highest industry-leading NPS to be there to help you out. We have seen the situations multiple times because of geopolitical thing. I think the DC to DC connectivity is an area we are going to continue to invest. It is a growing field. I can't tell you whether it is a growing -- it's a double-digit growth, single-digit growth, but I am very confident that we have the right moat to serve the DC to DC needs of our customers.

Got it. Got it. That was quite comprehensive answer, Ganesh. But just to circle back on my question, does this add incremental opportunity to our core connectivity business? Is that the right way to look at it? It is -- let's say, 6 months -- let's say, a year ago or 4 quarters ago, if you were looking at some, let's say, X percent growth for our core connectivity business, this definitely adds to that growth potential for that core connectivity business. Is that the right way to look at it?

Absolutely. We just heard from us that we grew the highest in the connectivity business in the last 10 quarters. You saw that our platform portion of that business is growing. Even if you take a look at the India market, the DC gigawatts is going to grow 3x to 4x. A DC without connectivity is just an isolated building. I think these DCs are going to need a high-quality network, which -- we as a Tata Comm has been building and providing for the last 4 decades. I think the market is opening up, and we will definitely be there to serve these customers.

Got it. Got it. My next just -- I have one more question for me and then just one follow-up for Siddhartha. On the digital portfolio, as of now, we have only 2 -- I mean, if you see over the past 4, 5 quarters tend also, we just have 2 of the 5 verticals or let's say, the sole verticals in the digital business firing for us, which is the CPaaS and the -- cloud PaaS and the next-gen business. Cloud, as you mentioned, I think that is where you believe we have a right to win, but the performance has been tepid. Media while it might have been impacted by the Gulf war in this quarter, but over the last 4 quarters also, the segment was quite volatile with there growth. And of course, the move in IoT business is too small to make a significant impact on the overall business in which phase. So where do we take the growth from here for the digital business? Do you believe that cloud business and the media business can recover in next, let's say, in some time in the near term so that we have all the cylinders firing or it will be some time and until that time, next-gen and CPaaS will have to carry the button of the growth of the digital business.

I think on the digital business, for me, the near to short-term goal is to improve the profitability of the business. You saw that it has gone from 9.6% negative to 6.9% negative. We are getting the growth to get the operating leverage. But I really would like you to step back and look at our business not as cloud business, IoT business, MOVE business. I think we now have the maturities. You heard the structure we are building. The customer solutions are not sold that way. And if you look at a connected vehicle, it starts with an onboard cloud-lite product we already have. It starts with the multimodal connectivity from our MOVE platform. It goes to an edge compute, which can absorb this telemetry. It can have an AI agent who is servicing each of the car based on the telemetry. More and more, and I think this is our future, we can actually build solutions which... So the second 1 example I would give you is -- when I went to England, U.K. Ireland, there is a definite need of retailers to get robust connectivity in multiple different stores. And that connectivity can be provided by a MOVE platform along with security and to make sure that digital efforts of these stores can happen. And I think this is, again, a combination between an IoT platform and a connectivity platform. I think the opportunity we have ahead of us is to really bring this together into solutions which can monetize much better than what we have done in the past. I think that is going to improve our ability to drive profitable growth as well. So in the near to short term, we will focus to make sure that this business is healthy. It goes towards the profitability. But the unified infrastructure, which we can bring is what I'm really excited about. The customer conversation I've had tells me that we have all the ingredients to bring these solutions to market. Now, just we just have to go make that happen.

Right, right, right. Just one question you mentioned the margins for the digital business was around minus 6.9% this quarter, a significant jump from the 9.5% that it was earlier. In terms of sub verticals here again, where do you think -- which are the key subsegments which you think will -- we can probably touch a breakeven or might have already as breakeven in terms of product is the CPaaS business next gen or cloud. And overall, if I look at on a quarter-on-quarter basis, the profitability at the company level seems to be pretty much the same. I mean the adjusted EBITDA margin is pretty much the same as it was last quarter. Despite the fact that the margins in all our non-data businesses, which is voice and TCR and others, they've kind of improved Q-on-Q. So does that -- and if digital business also improved, does that mean the core connectivity margins were lower in this quarter? If yes, is that a seasonality and we expect that to come back in the next quarter. Otherwise, what would be the reason behind it, and that will be really helpful.

Yes. So see, some of these margins may move up or down between quarter-to-quarter. I don't think we should pay too much emphasis on that because we are running a business from a longer-term perspective. The mix also change also impacts the overall blended margin as we would have put. There are segments of the business which are doing very well. Obviously, the network business is doing very well. NextGen is going very fast, and cloud is also doing very well. So these are segments which we continue to be very confident about. There are portfolios where we need to do more work, segments like media. We need to spend more time and ensure that we get to much more better profitability in these kind of segments. So I would say it will be a different approach across each of these portfolios. But at an overall level, what we were looking to ensure is that we deliver this double-digit EBITDA growth at an overall company level.

Got it. Got it. Just one last quick bookkeeping question. The negative free cash flow and the debt increase in this quarter, I believe this is quite seasonal. I mean every Q1, I think we tend to have a slightly higher CapEx and negative free cash flow. Is that the same thing or anything different to call out this time?