Tracxn Technologies Limited ($TRACXN)

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks for joining us today on the fourth quarter FY '26 Earnings Call of Tracxn Technologies Limited. On behalf of Systematix, I would like to thank the management of traction for giving us the opportunity to host this earnings call. Today on the call, we have with us Ms. Neha Singh, Co-Founder, Chairperson and Managing Director; Mr. Abhishek Goyal, Co-Founder, Vice Chairman and Executive Director; and Mr. Prashant Chandra, Chief Financial Officer. I would now like to hand over the call to Neha to give her opening remarks and take us through the PPT and after that, we will open it up for Q&A. [Operator Instructions]. Thanks. And with that, over to you, Neha.

Warm welcome to everyone. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today for the earnings call for the fourth quarter of financial year '26. We are excited to present our results for this quarter. [indiscernible] the previous time in terms of format, we would like to run through a short presentation covering the key highlights of this period for about 15 to 20 minutes, and then we will follow it up with a Q&A session. Quick recap on our business for those who are joining us for the first time. So Tracxn is the data and software perform for global private market. So if you look at the public market, it has created multiple large data companies a lot of it are profitable cash-rich companies. And as private markets becoming large and important, it will also create [indiscernible] platforms. So in this space, we are building a global platform in this space. And if you look at our customer base, it includes venture capital funds, private equity fund and investing banks as well as M&A and innovation teams of large Fortune 500 corporations. Also, it's a global platform, right? So more than half of our revenue is international with customers to over 50 countries. I would like to begin by summarizing the financial year of Q4 FY '26 and the FY '20 the overall year. So revenue from operations was INR 20.5 crores for Q4 and INR 84 crores for FY '26. On profitability, EBITDA was negative INR 6.6 crores for FY '26 and PAT was marginally negative of INR 0.6 crores for FY '26. Please note that this includes all the noncash expenses as well, primarily in [indiscernible], which we'll cover the adjusted view on the next slide. By segment, India grew by INR 4.7 crores year-on-year to INR 38.2 crores while the international was down INR 5 crores to INR 45.8 crores. Customer accounts grew by 19% on a year-on-year basis to INR 2,289, so volume growth continues at a good pace. Cash and cash equivalents stood at INR 89.2 crores. So please note that this is net of the buyback that was completed FY '26. On this slide, we've provided the year-on-year and historical numbers for reference. We talked about EBITDA and PAT in the previous slide. Please note that those numbers included noncash expense primarily of expense. Excluding these, the noncash expense, the adjusted EBITDA was negative INR 3.5 crores for FY '26 and adjusted PAT was positive INR 2.5 crores for FY '26. Another metric that we like to share is what portion of the incremental revenue goes into bottom line. In FY '26, we did not see margin expansion because we were investing in growth. However, if you see from the history when growth accelerates, margin improves fairly quickly, right? So historically, we have converted as high as 80% of the incremental revenue to EBITDA. So once the growth reaccelerates, we expect this pattern to repeat driving nonlinear EBITDA expansion. Coming to expenses. Our total expense for FY '26 was INR 90.7 crores, which is an 8% increase on a year-on-year basis. On the right-hand side, we have given the FY '26 expense breakup across the key components, which are the same as in the previous quarters. So first, bulk of our expenses steel costs, which accounts at about 88% of the total expense in FY '26. But noting that our entire team is in-house now outsource of contract workforce. The second largest item was the cloud hosting cost at 3.1% of the total expense as we do a lot of data processing and analytics. This was followed by rental expense, right? Another point worth noting is that we do not have a large paid marketing line item in additional non offline typically required for customer acquisition. Because we are being a data company, we are able to produce a lot of content in-house, which generates organic traffic and lets us acquire leads without significant marketing spend. Coming to the volume growth, both customer accounts and users continue to increase at a healthy pace. We closed March 26 at 2,289 accounts, which is a 90% growth on a year-on-year basis. The number of users were 6,227 users, which is a 23% growth on a year-on-year basis. So we continue to acquire customers at a fairly good pace. Moving to some of the other financial metrics. Free cash flow for FY '26 was negative INR 3 crores. Cash and cash equivalent stood at INR 892. crores. Please note that this is net of the money utilized for buyback which was completed in the first half of FY '26. Moving to more details on our customer base, starting with the split of type -- at the end of FY '26 -- sorry, 49% of accounts were from the investment industry. This includes private equity investors like VC funds, PE funds, investment banks, family offices, accelerators and incubators, et cetera. 46% were corporates, primarily corporate development teams, and many teams, innovation teams, strategy and sales teams, consulting teams, et cetera. The remaining others, including education, [indiscernible], government agencies and others. So we continue to have a healthy split across the investment ecosystem as well as corporates. This slide gives basically an expanded summary of the titles within the investment ecosystem and cockpits that we work with. So this gives us a large addressable market to tap into. And as you can see, we cut across dozens of customer segments, which is why we've been able to build a vertical specialist team for each playbook that's working and we'll cover that in the subsequent slides. In terms of geographical split, 55% of FY '26 revenue was from outside India. Our customers span over 50 countries to markets by customer accounts are India, U.S., U.K., Singapore and Germany. A quick word on the broader market environment. So in terms of overall market activity, we are seeing improvements in dollars invested. But having said that, deal volume continues to remain low at nearly a 10-year low, both in India as well as internationally. And in late stage, so you see a similar trend. Coming to the global M&A market, the rebound here is strong. So 2026 [ by TV ] continues with very strong momentum. The current run rate suggests that 2026 could actually become the second highest year after the peak of 2021, both in terms of global M&A deal value as well as [ Ivory IB ] advisory fee. Moving on to the financials. I'd like to walk through some of the key highlights from Q4 and FY '26, starting with India and international build. So focusing on the India revenue. So it continues to grow well for us. Over the last 2 years, revenue from India has compounded at a 16% CAGR with the customer accounts growing at 48% CAGR. In Q4 FY '26, revenue from India grew at 15% on a year-on-year basis. Most notably, the growth accelerated meaningfully in Q4. So as you can see on the right, the Q-on-Q revenue growth rate came at about 5.1%, which annualizes to about 22%, well above the pace that we see on the earlier quarters. The first step up in growth came after we launched our vertical teams and the more recent step-up has come from the additional data sets we have added, which were prioritized by the different vertical teams, right? So this has also helped to cement our market leadership in the data sets that's most relevant to our evolving customer mix. Talking about the specific data sets that got launched primarily in the second half of this financial year. So one big launch was around private company financials. So this was one of the top past features by our customer segments, including investment banking fabric equity. Within the last 1 year, we've increased the coverage by over 10x to make it best-in-class right? So we have [indiscernible] financials of Indian companies more than any other platform in India globally. There are a few other items listed on this slide that you can go through in more detail. There were also some new specific launches as well. For instance, for banks, we launched legal entity report with risk indicators needed by them for issuing loans on onboarding companies with vendors, et cetera. We added corporate pre structures for more than 60,000 entities augmented the people database to have more than 2.6 million directors across India. The other segment was for the sales segment, we extended the PIMCO data to now have 2.7 million entities and augmented the key people and CXO data as well. So because of these data set launches, you see that the growth rate has increased in Q4, and we expect that to continue or accelerate in FY '27 as well. Now turning to the international. The playbook that has worked in India, vertical teams and [indiscernible] team is now being rolled out in the international geographies as well. And once [indiscernible] become live, we expect the growth rates to improve which should bring back the overall growth rate to be better. On the data set expansion, we are aggressively scaling our data sets and offering for the international customer segments. Some of the key developments include, for instance, in U.K., the private company financials extended -- expanded to more than 4.6 million entities, which is a 14 -- in U.S., the company coverage increase at 45%, transactions grew by 5x to 1.2 million head count data now span more than 850,000 companies, which is [indiscernible] 2 years. In other geos, we've launched financial reports, including Germany, Singapore expanded financials to over 20 countries and capable to over 15 countries. So looking ahead, we have a good pipeline in the coming quarters, including revenue valuation CHO data sets in U.S. and head count data of Europe. Right? So to summarize, we expect that the India growth should actually further following the launches that we have done in Q3 and Q4. And on the international front, we expect rebound to play out from Q1 onwards. Moving on to our next initiative, which is scaling our sales and marketing teams. So are the key initiatives is scaling our GTM teams primarily across the sales teams. As you can see, our GTM team has grown both in terms of absolute size as well as a percentage of the overall headcount. So sales and marketing now accounts for nearly 30% of the total head count, which is up from 23% in FY '25. So a meaningful shift towards sales-led growth. At 30%, we are bringing the sales and marketing density closer to the midrange of the pure benchmarks of B2B information services company, and we expect this ratio to continue to scale a little bit more as the sales team grow in size. Building on this momentum, now that the vertical sales playbook is working and our outbound conversions have improved following our data set documentations. We are scaling our sales team further. We had about 34 closing sales team as of end of December '25, and we plan to nearly double this 260 at the end of this calendar year, which is December '26. These are -- these 2 teams serving India as well as international geographies and the India-based teams which are essentially doing sales for the international geographies. Additionally, our sales partnership, for example, with PMX will help us penetrate enterprise accounts right? So we expect this expansion to drive meaningful growth in the new customer acquisition. Moving on to the next initiative, our specialized vertical teams, right? So these are teams if you remember, we have set up across the key customer segments, and we continue to see very good results across these segments. One segment that's growing well for us is after we have launched a vertical team for us is that of investment banks. So in FY '26, the India IV revenue grew by nearly 20% on a year-on-year basis, while the India accounts grew by about 40% year-on-year. We have been gaining market share with logo penetration growing on a month-on-month basis. And internationally, the accounts grew by over 35% on a year-on-year basis. Another segment that is showing strong traction is corporate sales, which is a specialized team focused on corporate users for lead generation market analysis, comps, business development mandates, et cetera. In FY '26, accounts overall grew by 35% on a year-on-year basis. In India, the accounts grew by 45% and the revenue grew by nearly 30% on a year-on-year basis. In addition, we have vertical teams across other segments, including universities. In FY '26, India customer accounts grew by 55% with the revenue up over 60% year-on-year. We are now working with many top logos, including [ IM, IoT, ISP, XR ] and others, 5 out of the top 6 INSAR customers. We've also been able to include traction in the cost work of many of the top universities like INS and ISP, which is building a long-term mode for us. Startups is another segment where we continue to see high volumes of inbound. In FY '26, India grew by over 45%, with the revenue growing by over 20%. For accelerators and incubators, you're bringing in grants [indiscernible] the platform, which is helping sort of incubate a portfolio companies access government from another support, right? So to summarize, the playbook of vertical teams by customer segment continues to work well for us. Moving on to the next initiative, which is a new one, which is AI native access to Tracxn data. So a lot of our paid customers have been asking us how they can access Tracxn data and their AI native workflows, and we also see this as a new distribution channel. So in this regard, we have launched 2 things. One is we have launched Tracxn Connector for Claude, right? So [ paid loan ] access reliable real-time company intelligence from tractions proprietary database directly within the Claude and the AI workflows. Note, this was launched after the close of FY '26, so this isn't reflecting the year's numbers as yet. Second, coming soon in the platform itself is an AI chat-based assistant for data query, along with more [indiscernible], like company due diligence, competitive landscaping market analysis, right? So this is currently in private beta and getting launched very soon. Together, this will make our data significantly more accessible within customers' AI-native workflows, enabling us to embed more deeply within the customer workflows and over time become a meaningful revenue segment as well for us. Moving on to the next initiative, which is expanding the regulatory coverage. Our coverage of regulatory data on private companies across geographies continue to expand rapidly. Starting with company financials, we've grown the coverage by 9 [indiscernible] and slightly over a year. We now have 2.8 million companies with revenue data and 6.7 million companies with detailed financials across over 20 countries. Next is CAP table, so investors used to track shareholding valuations price history of private companies. We have grown the coverage by nearly 11x in a little over 2 years, now tracking over 770,000 companies across over 15 countries. Another example is our legal entity database, which was launched 3 years ago. So today, we cover 66 million entities across markets, including U.S., U.K., Japan, India, Australia and Brazil. Since most of the regulatory data anchors to legal entities, we continue to augment data sets, including loans and charges, data, patent data, legal case and trademark and more. So this helps us sort of deepen penetration in both new as well as existing customers. One point to note across all this is that we've been able to add these data sets at this pace without significant increase in the head count which is a strong testament to the level of automation and intelligence that we've been able to build in our structure, which enables us to scale sort of these very efficiently. Moving on to some of the other key highlights for PLG and customer acquisition. First, organic search traffic. So we continue to see high and increasing volumes of organic traffic. In FY '26, this drove many 6.2 main visits, organic visits, which is nearly 3x in over 3 years. The top 5 countries in the traffic were India, U.S., U.K., Canada and Germany. Second distraction light, we had launched this for product-led growth to drive platform awareness among our potential customers. So users get access to full platform with usage limits. In 3 years since launch, we have 285,000 sign-ups. So this helps us bring a very strong acquisition pipeline through organic sign-ups users hitting credit limits and upgrade request demos and more. Another initiative that we have mentioned about is as mentioned, in FY '26, we had over 4,000 press mentions which is a 40% increase on a year-on-year basis. We had partnerships with funds and prominent media outlets, including [indiscernible] the Bangalore Innovation Report 2025 and more. We've also expanded internationally with brand mentions across media outlets, including pops, routers, Singapore business revenue and others. So all of these helps to build our brand as a data company and helps in sales conversions. So to summarize some of the key growth initiatives that you can expect to see in FY '27, right? So on the India front, last quarter, we had mentioned that we expect that the growth should improve, which is what has happened in Q4, right? So we have cemented our lead in the private market data, which is now also best-in-class in financial coverage, right, as well. We are gaining share in newer segments like corporate sales, banks, financial institutions on the back of the augmented offerings that we have added. The impact that you saw on Q4, Q-on-Q growth rate increasing to 5%, which is annualizes to more than 20%. Is family led to the data set augmentation that were done in Q3 and Q4. Additionally, another thing that we are doing in the coming year is scaling our sales teams, right? So vertical team is working well for us and sales conversions have improved. So we are doubling on our closing sales team in India. We'll grow this from a team of about 25 at the end of December to about 40% at the end of this calendar year. And as a result of both of these, which is data set launches as well as doubling from sales team, you can expect that the growth should continue to accelerate from here. On the international front, major data investment -- data set investments are underway, including valuations revenue data, especially in the U.S. and CHO data in the U.S. and Europe. Some of it is launched, but there are multiple other launches also planned for FY '27. In Tara, we are also doubling our closing sales team here, which is from less than 10 people to about 25 people. This will also be complemented by the partnerships, and we expect the uptick to start happening from Q1 onwards. The third is AI native access to traction data right? So we see this as a new distribution channel for investors to use in consumer data. So in this regard, we have launched a connector [ MCP ] connector to Claude. And second, we've launched an AI assistant on the Tracxn platform and are also doing partnerships with AI native platforms. We expect that this segment should start contributing to revenue from this financial year onwards. On the regulatory data front, we continue to deepen our coverage across financials, capital transactions, LP data and other timarket data sets. So overall, we have a strong set of growth initiatives in place. We expect FY '27 to show the impact of these investments, both in terms of improved growth and expanded market share across the key segments. In the subsequent slides, we have also added some of the other key metrics, right? So this cover most of the updates that we had and you can probably refer to some of the other matrices in detailed data. With that, I'll pause, and I'll pass it back to [ Dag ] for Q&A.

I will be coordinating for Q&A. The first question, we will be taking from [ Jignesh ].

[Operator Instructions]. I think do we have the first question?

We can take first question from [indiscernible].

Over to [indiscernible], you have your question?

Yes. Congratulation to all you are trying your best but -- you want to know about your international penetration or your efforts. Can you throw some light regarding the international market?

Yes. So for sure. So just to actually -- in the context of both India and international, so one of the things that has worked very well for in the India region and then we are replicating that for the international region is basically prioritizing some of the customer segments. So if you see -- we see as a segment which was probably like one part of our key segment, maybe a couple of years back, both in India and international. So that segment was probably most impacted after the market slowdown, which has happened. In India, what has actually worked well for us is that the other segments? So though [ BC ] actually is still flattish, the other segments are actually growing well for us because we were able to expand our offering in some of the other segments, primarily investment banking or corporate sales and some of the other segments, right? We also augment our offering to basically also have our penetration deeper into these segments, right? And if you see these are the segments that are actually growing well for us, which actually takes the overall India growth rate also high, right? This is a similar thing that we're also replicating in the international market, which is the key segments, which is investment banking, private equity and corporate sales, I would say, right, augmenting the offering in addition to what a typical private market investor needed augmenting our offering to also have higher conversions in this segment. And once basically the start growing, then we expect that the overall international growth rate should also improve.

Yes. Yes, but according to your latest [ PPD], U.K. financial data expand around 4.6 million, right? And U.S. company coverage around Y-o-Y 45%. And funding transition grow also, you have mentioned 5x to 1.2 million and account data expand also at 850,000 companies. So from all this point, how -- I mean, as it will -- how you will start to when you generate the breakeven point or something else? Or still there is a pinching regarding this EBITDA level per at or something?

Right. So for instance, in India, for instance, a couple of data sets that were sort of requested a lot by these customer segment. One was just a private company financial data, right? So that is one thing for instance, that we augmented to -- within a few -- we actually sort of increase the coverage within like probably a couple of quarters to actually make it best-in-class now in India, right? And the other thing, so we are -- so for instance, in U.S., the data sets that is getting prioritized is basically your revenue -- actual revenues, revenue estimate and valuation data, right? So that is also coming live soon. So these are the similar customers, the data set that we are also augmenting in the U.S. and U.K. geographies. It's not just a few segment -- the data points that we mentioned. It's also -- it also has to sort of go along with the other things that we mentioned, which are in pipeline. Once that sort of starts taking life, then we expect that then we should start seeing more impact in the numbers as well.

The next question will [indiscernible].

So one thing I wanted to understand in terms of the [ ID ] and M&A, you mentioned that it's the turnaround likely to happen right this year because right now, the projections seem high for that to the full year. Does this mean that --

It's not audible right now.

Sorry. Can I -- my connection [indiscernible], can I speak?

Yes, sure. Please go ahead.

Yes. I was wondering, you mentioned that IBM M&A seems to be getting back on track. Does this mean the [ degrowth ] stopped in the taxation markets? And can we start expecting growth from these segments? Or what do you see? Because usually, before the elections happen, buying software like us are using more of it is likely an indicator, right, really indicated for this happening? So do you see that happening? Can you just give some idea on that?

Yes. So just to add, so for a few segments, we have -- like for instance, investment banking, we have seen some turnaround happen. We expect that the growth should increase once we launch some of those things. But yes, on an average, I think for some of the segments, we are seeing sort of growth coming back, which includes your investment banking, your corporate sales as a segment, both internationally, where we have seen growth starting to happen.

But do you think this is because the sales people we employed or is it just because the market has started turning around?

So I think 2 things. One is that we had -- so one is the sales team. I think there are 3 phases, right? One is your vertical sales team, which actually does very focused outbound and engagement with those customer segments. So that was the phase that in soft cost sort of improvements in the conversions and the numbers right? So for instance, IB is live in U.K., in U.S., those things alike. The second is improvement in conversions we have seen when we actually augment the data sets, which is just primarily for these segments, right? Because they were a smaller portion of our customer segment. Now they are actually growing to become larger. We're also prioritizing some of the things based on -- to improve conversion. So the second uptick that we are actually seeing is once these things become like. The third thing that you'll see next year, which is basically scaling the sales team overall, right, which is just doing that. So that is planned for FY '27.

So -- but as I see it, the customers are increasing and everything seems to be this thing, but the pricing, I think is taking a lot of fit, right. Over the years, we have maintained similar revenues. But international onto, I think our pricing is getting affected. So do you see further degrowth in terms of our pricing or you expect it to stabilize at these levels?

Yes. So actually, interestingly, that's a good question. Interestingly, our prices have our ASP has reduced, but our pricing within the customer segment is actually not reduced that much, right? To give you an example, today, our ASP is about 4 lakh per account per year, which is slightly lower than 5 lakh last year. The main reason is actually change in customer mix, right? And other ASP going down because there are some segments, for instance, your IB sales, which have higher -- which have lower ASP as compared to, say, investor as a segment, right? So these segments are growing. So it's mainly triggered by the change in mix that is happening. Within a particular segment, if I take up like a VC or repeat started the ASPs are changing a lot, right? In fact, for some of the segments, like these segments, you've also seen sort of improvement, which is there. But within the segment is not changed much. It is mainly the mix which is sort of happening.

Got it. But -- so apart from my -- do you see the VC turning around because still, I think that will be a distribution factor even though we put a sales team and everything their results will still be based on the market turning around because no one is going to start buying us in a down market or without transactions happening at the end of the day. I just wondering in that case.

So currently, what we are planning is actually even if the market remains like this, we should be back to our sort of your growth [indiscernible]. that is what we are working towards, and you want to basically to like a more than 20% sort of growth rate. So currently, we are not -- even if the market sort of remains the way it is, we are still building for us to be able to sort of grow because of change in customer mix and prioritizing some of the other segments and sort of working with some of the customers like launching area native sort of data consumption so that there are more avenues that people can actually use that, right? So right now, if that improves, that's great, but right now, we're not banking on that.

Got it. But so did our partnerships with [ Ingenio ] far, like did we generate any revenues from this partnership? So they're still in the pilot stage and yet to be seen?

No, we've started generating revenues from that. Though they are small, and we expect that to increase. So one of the best part about working with large players like this, and they are fairly large data platform, the largest sort of exchange in Canada having a very entrenched sort of a sales network in North America, right? So one of the best things about working with players like this is that you are also able to penetrate in the larger enterprises, right? You're also able to -- because of the fact that the networks are already there, right? So they're also able to penetrate into larger enterprises. We have had discussions with that, right? And I think we are also working with some of the large sort of enterprises in doing the POC and sort of working with them to do that. But once I think that starts once we see sort of movement on that front, then obviously, that will be more interesting. But having said that, we are sort of fairly sort of excited about that.

So are we -- do we have any more in the pipeline for the year? In terms of partnerships?

Partnerships? We are working on a few. And once that closes, we'll probably announce that.

But usually, when you start with these partnerships, how long do they take for them to second store? Because I understand it's relate back and forth and understanding the whatever it is. So how long is it?

Yes. So I think if any large player, I would say, it takes up at least 1 to 2 quarters to close and launch because obviously, you are working with sort of large enterprise. But having said that, like there are a lot of sort of large ones that we have sort of known over time, and we are talking. But yes, typically, for the larger ones, it takes us anywhere between 1 to 2 quarters.

Got it. Going forward in terms of new products, I think we've introduced new [ CXO ] data sets and all of that. Will it be just a part of our extra modules as we keep pricing a product better? Or will you please, let's say, separate monetization strategy altogether for these?

So I would say both. So one is, obviously, this is an augmented data set that our customers sort of get and especially some of the customer segments, which have been requesting, there, we expect more conversions to happen. The second thing is for a few of these segments, we're also adding more pricing tiers. So for instance, we are starting metering, right? So based on the number of usage. So it's a little bit of usage-based pricing that we're also launching for these segments.

Understood. So right now, like we also have like a probably like lacked menu also we can buy individual reports and all of that on our website. So what kind of individual, let's say, what purchases contribute to our overall revenue as is let's --

Yes. No, that's a great question. So right now, we launched that. Right now, I would say still single-digit percentage, but that has grown well for us. And this is anyway the data that we had and making it available for people to buy in bunch right? And said it has also helped us to tap into newer segments. So for instance, the way banks, for instance, are used to working in this. Like whenever they want to issue a loan to like a corporate, they want to -- they have to do some KYC. They have to get some docs and do some checks and balances and this assessment based on the regulatory data of these customers, we have to -- that's a necessary step, which is there, right? So thanks to these launches, we have also been able to penetrate into these customer segments. And that's also one segment that we expect should grow right now, it's a single-digit percentage in of the overall revenue.

But do you think this can be a large contributor because it will be a much more disciplined market, right? So like as a product does -- can this grow has this happened internationally? Or what -- how does the strategy work with this?

Right, right. So this is also a segment wherein you have players in India, you have players in some of the other countries, it is very in line with what we are doing because we are anyway is building our data, right? So it is basically reselling -- repackaging the same data that we are producing. For a different customer PG, right? So for us, it is actually very sort of synergistic right, to actually leverage that and offer to a customer segment, and this is also a fairly large segment. right, which over time, it can become. It may not be like the top 3 segment, but it can definitely be among the top 5 customer segments that might eventually happen because even if you look at sort of lobster are companies in this space.

Understood. So -- and in terms of coming to our cost, let's say, in terms of [ ESOP ] expenses, will it remain in the similar percentage points? Or is there any chance of going down in the future?

We expect that it should remain in the similar range of part as it's been fairly range bound, right ease of charge because of the way I think the structure, it should remain in the same range.

Understood. Got it. And in terms of the sales team, I think we have like large plants of getting, let's say, to 30%. So do you think 30% will be the peak? Or do you think we'll go further than that in the next 2 years?

Yes. So -- yes, so that's an interesting point. So 1 of the things that we are actually doing is -- so if you look at the GTM team overall, which is your sales and marketing sales support everything, it has grown from about 23% overall of the head count to about 30%, right? And if you look at typically your enterprise SaaS companies, they are -- the [indiscernible] between like 25% to even 40% on the higher end, right? So that is the range that we sort of also aspire that once you start having a good conversion, et cetera, then you have a good percentage of your head count and just basically sort of going to the market. So there we -- and we're also sailing the CLC. So probably it might -- it's a good percentage you have firstly and then you might see it sort of go up a few percentage points.

But do you see -- how long do you think it will take for them to start converting into actual sales? Because probably there will be training and other things, right? So when do you think you'll start converting?

So typically, our sales cycle are sort of fairly short, I would say. It's not your typical large enterprise sales. I it's typically, say, once a sales person becomes productive, our sales cycle is anywhere between 1.5 months to 2 months. And typically, a salesperson takes maybe like 1 or 2 -- like within a quarter, they are typically -- in the next quarter, basically, they are expected to sort of be in line with the typical closure requirements of a sales person.

And what would that be typical close usually mandate for those?

It depends by the different customer segments. So each TG have particular conversions. So typically, for instance, we are in the sales -- we are scaling the sales team in the verticals wherein you have higher conversions. Your average is about, say, like 15% to 20%, but your -- in some segments, you are even having like 30% or higher conversions. So yes, entry scaling in those segments where we are already seeing good conversions commercial percentage.

In terms of, let's say, dollar and, let's say, rupee amount, let's say, if we were to pay 1.5 lakh per month to the specific salesperson. What kind of return -- like in terms of revenue, will it contribute to us?

So right now, in our set, actually, the breakeven that a salesperson has -- is not a very long duration. It happens in a fairly limited amount of time. What we focus on is basically whenever you have different customer hardiness segments and we track basically your demo 2 conversion, right, what's the want to close our percentage. And as soon as this starts crossing a particular level, then we know that we can actually double the sales team in those segments. And it has to be backed up by obviously a little bit augmentation offering, et cetera, which is sort of required. To give you an example, right, like sales is a very good segment. We already had, like, for instance, the private market data for the for the private market investors, which is also very relevant for sales team because for sales, they actually get very targeted outbound, right? Like if they have to do if a logistic company wants to do outbound in D2C brands, and they are able to actually get that list of D2C brands in a very curated way that they are not able to get across any other platform, right? So that is what is the value which is there. Once we started tapping into that segment, right? It was not about just going behind that segment. It is also adding a few things, right? So for instance, one of the requests that we got from there from the large in prices that you pay the wall steel is divided is back in food, right? So I also need [indiscernible] to be added to these, right? So that we were able to add in like a few months. We also need sort of more contacts, right, who is the right person within a thing so that we are sort of augmenting right? So you also have to do like in these 2, 3 other things. To then sort of increase the conversion very meaningfully, right? So I think the 2 steps have to be done. And once that you see that conversion is crossing the then it's easier to sort of double those, right?

Got it. But let's say, in terms of corporates, I think it's a great -- it's a huge opportunity, and most of it subtenant of revenues coming from there. Do we see it expanding in terms of these M&T, specially large corporates, let's say, most of our investment size industries are much smaller in terms of numbers. compared to, let's say, corporate where you can probably sell 1,000 accounts at once. So are we targeting any large accounts like this? Or how do we go about that?

Yes, yes, definitely. So right now, corporate has actually grown to more than 40% of our -- if you look at our customer base, right? And that is a segment that we continue to sort of invest in. And when we are selling to these corporates, it includes a large corporate as well. So we have like a separate team to actually just sell to the enterprise corporate because, obviously, the amount of growth that you can have in these is much more than the other. So yes, that is definitely an area of focus for us, and we believe that, that should be -- the actual over time become a large segment for us.

Got it. So right now, I think -- so you mentioned that 20% we probably will go. So do you expect that to happen during this year? And do you see India contributing most of it? Or how is it going to work for this year? Because we have had like this growth for the last 4 years, you want to do that?

So yes. So India should actually start -- as you can see, actually, at the end, the growth rate has sort of become even better. And that trajectory, we expect that should continue in the subsequent year because -- we have sort of made investments that is working out very well. And we've seen the proof point of that, and now we're also sort of the next is scaling the sales team, right? So that should be fairly interesting, and we expect that growth rate to sort of actually -- we are also working, obviously, in parallel to basically improve the international growth rate you should start seeing some impact from like Q1, Q2 onwards itself. But I would say the meaningful impact will also come in once we have those launches, which is probably like maybe the next couple of months, which is coming up, right? So you should see some improvement, but I think you should see sort of more improvement once we add those things in the coming months.

But do we see at least breaking even this year? Is that a possibility?

Hopefully, yes, yes. Hopefully, it should look better.

Understood. And in terms of public market also, I think we also have information for public entities, but won't adding it also make the, let's say, total electrical market also bigger. So I'm just wondering in terms of that.

Yes. No, that's a great question. So obviously, we see the opportunities of the private market and the corporate sort of -- those are already adjusting to the data set that we have. We are also adding public market data, and you'll see that's actually getting launched this quarter itself, which is mainly for private market investors who are looking to benchmark, right, using the public market data. So that is getting added. We haven't targeted the public market investors per se. Maybe we will have a few models which is there, right? Because this market, we feel is sort of more underpenetrated as much as the public market platforms are.

Understood. Just one last question. So when did we added a few people during the year, right? When was that it was during the last few quarters that we are because I was just wondering because we added like INR 5.5 crores, I think, about in terms of employee expense for the year. So I was wondering, was it through the end of the year? Or is it that like -- is it mostly for the --

It was primarily, I would say, in the last 2 quarters that some of these people were added.

Got it. So in terms of employee expense, where do you think we can end up at in the next, let's say, 3 years? Because we have been -- I understand we've been rightsizing. Again, it's been a journey with us. We've been reducing some adding some. But let's say in 3 years, we want to grow at [indiscernible].

Right. So what we have actually mentioned is, for instance, if you look at historically, our expenses grow at single-digit percentage, right, between 5% to 10%. That's what it has grown. And even going forward, we expect that it should probably be in the similar range, single-digit percentage, which is there. We are -- if you look at our head count, which is probably the largest part of our expense, it is though we are adding sort of salespeople and the other things. We are also -- there's a lot of efficiency, which is also happening the data production because of a lot of automation. -- right? So if you see like we have talked about earlier that if you look at our data ops team that has actually shrunk like last year, it shrunk by about 20% in terms of that headcount. But having said that, obviously, we are investing in growth, and we are investing in some of the other things. So you'll probably see the cost go a little bit, but like it has been -- in our case, it has been fairly range bound, right? So it has been typically single-digit percentage at which it has increased, and we expect that spend should probably continue.

The only reason I ask is because see, without us growing by 10%, most our cash flow to catch up usually without -- even though we're at breakeven, we don't grow our revenues, let's say, by at least 15% to 20%, it won't make sense because you won't end up making any money. So just wondering on that perspective, then will be -- where can we end up in, let's say, the years because our costs seem to be growing high -- and I understand we are doing a lot of experiments right now most part. So could you explain like what kind of more experience will we need to do? And if those don't pan out, can you also cut down on the workforce? Because I think making money will be like first priority also as a public entity, [indiscernible].

Correct. So that's a great question. So we are very mindful about sort of how we are scaling, and we are sort of fairly thoughtful about how we are investing in across all these units. And in our case, actually, it's -- your -- as soon as the growth rate sort of crosses a particular one, your margins improved fairly in a nonlinear manner, right, our margins improved in a fairly quick manner. So within -- like to give you an example, like within [indiscernible] itself, we were able to increase our EBITDA by INR 15 crores in 1 year, right? So that is also sort of -- that's also feasible to do. So in our case, for instance, we are obviously investing in some of the engines which we believe which will help drive some growth obviously, it takes some time to sort of build that out. But we've been sort of fairly conscious or cognizant I would say in terms of cost scale up, right? So it has been sort of fairly thought through, I would say. So we should -- we see that it's sort of we should -- once that catches up, we should turn back -- we should be able to increase the bottom line at a fairly faster pace. And hopefully, it should happen like within the next 3 years to sell.

Yes, I understand that because most of our cash is didn't come down, and we've also been maintaining overall profitable to an extent in [indiscernible], I understand all of that. Just wondering because PAT has been wisely generated at least without other income and other factors. So in terms of core business profitability, I was just wondering when will it reach because despite market softness, we have not let the [indiscernible]. So just wondering in the next 3 years, where do you think we might end up at in terms of, let's say, revenues. -- or like profitability wise of it.

Right. Yes. So what we are sort of -- as we sort of alluded to how we are thinking about sort of the different growth engines that we are doing and then we believe we are fairly well geared up for like FY '27, right, on both the segments that we mentioned about India and international. And so we are investing in that. And because of the fact that the business is very high gross margin, right, the profitability actually increased at a fairly quick way. So that we are lesser concerned about because that sort of -- we are sitting on a sort of good cash reserve, which is there. We did buyback also sort of in the first half of this financial year or the previous financial year, right? So that's a good cash is that we are building -- that we are sitting in, and we expect that we should be able to -- that's not so much of a concern for us.

Got it. So do you think 20% would be a conservative number? Or is it a good enough fair enough estimate?

So we are gearing for sort of reaching that at the overall level.

Thanks, [ Puneet]. We have a few more people in the pipeline. We'll come back to you later. The next question we'll take it from [ Abhinav Kasha].

Great performance in India. I wanted to understand like the public market data also you're going to focus. So how big of an opportunity that would be an -- can it be bigger than the current opportunity as well, like.

Got it. Thanks, for the question. So you're sort of correcting, we are adding public market data, but we're not focusing on public market investors as a segment. because obviously, they require some more nuance data. Right now, the -- a few of the queries that we get from a customer segment or for instance, like an investment bank, they want in comps right, for any company. We have a very good list of comparables, right? So for instance, if you are looking at a company in food delivery, we are able to compare -- we are able to give you sort of all the global companies in that segment. And that's for all the large private companies as well, right? So this is something that we get requested a lot by the IV or PEs, right? So these are the models that we are launching, which is using public market data to help our the current customer segments that we are working with, right? So that is one thing that we are working on. For the private market investor currently, it's not so much to focus because we believe that obviously, that's a more well sort of cater to segment, right? So currently, our focus is on private market and corporate.

The reason I'm asking this is, I have explored Tracxn platform for researching public companies and what their private competitors are and what they are valued -- so as a public investor, I feel that data is very valuable, and there is no other competitor who is providing that. So -- that's one reason, like you can even actually tie up with third party or like grow [indiscernible] and probably give the detaxe the way you are giving to parallel. So that is probably we're sitting on a gold mine at.

No, thanks a lot, No,I think we have -- so that's a great suggestion. I think we will probably look into that. We probably sort of got some requests for that, but I would see if -- what can be sort of monetized in that.

And second question, like at this valuation, like you are at INR 300 crores valuation and we have around INR 110 crores, INR 80 crores cash itself. So we are at a very low valuation. Is there any chance for doing buybacks? Because I mean, it's a very low valuation considering the cash flow we are generating.

No, I think we also feel that. And in terms of your buyback and dividends, so I think we had done a buyback last year, and then we'll probably be eligible for doing another buyback soon. So probably once that window opens up, we would be, as we have mentioned that we would want to sort of keep doing buyback because we believe that this company sort of is able to generate a lot of cash, and that's -- until we are able to give dividend, obviously, because we have acuate losses, [indiscernible] a great way to sort of have some sort of sort of use of cash in addition to all the investments that we are also doing. So yes, to answer your question, we would definitely consider that once we are a little bit to do another one.

And also one question I had is the way you're presenting the data, like we are not able to -- I mean, even though there are a lot of segments growing, a lot of segments falling down, the overall result looks flattish. So -- the way we want to evaluate as a sum of parts method. So if we can get different segments data, like IB data, how it is growing through the years rupee data, how it's growing 3 years -- so we might be able to value it differently -- so rather than the data looking flattish.

So that's a good suggestion. I think we've started giving India international, obviously, one thing because that -- because like overall, you don't see the impact, but like you actually -- there are a lot of things which are working and in that, which is sort of growing. So you started giving that on a consistent basis. We'll also give some of these other split over time. We have been talking about some of the segments like vertical teams consistently for the last a few quarters and how they have been sort of growing and they continue to grow. But obviously, we can probably, over time, we'll keep adding some of these metrics.

The next question we'll take it from [indiscernible], you can ask your question.

We have been very -- personally, you can say, we have a high respect for people, both of you and you have been driving this company. But lately, we are turning very skeptical, the way our investment has turned out. And so can you guide a clear cut whether -- we have a very clear path of growth looking to down the line 2, 3 years or how -- whether this AI would turn out our data at appropriate data into a commodity, if you can add that would add to our confidence.

Okay. No. Thanks, [indiscernible], for the question. So see, coming to that, that's why we have sort of also started giving some of the splits and there is a good amount of work that is going on in our -- we see a lot of things which are working, and it's sort of we see it more predictable part for the other ones. Obviously, sometimes it takes longer. Our market, for instance, has gone through the burst, right? To give you an example, like the deal volume today, right, continues -- is at a 10-year low right? So that is obviously -- it's there. Despite that, we have been able to sort of augment in some of the other segments, you've been able to change some of our customer base customer mix, right, and being able to sort of get the growth back. It probably takes us some time to replicate that in the other geographies. But I think for us, we believe that like if you break it down into 2 parts, like India should -- that growth rate should continue right? Hopefully, you should see some acceleration in that. And internationally, you should start seeing better in like 1 and 2 quarters itself.

The follow-up question, what I would like to ask you a [indiscernible], we want to see the take very recruit. -- actually from last 7, 8 quarters, I think we have been roaming into [indiscernible] revenue. Similarly, we have seen other companies also where in these revenue astute either complemented 2 more segments where revenue can be generated. Though it's like -- do we have other than -- are we exploring other segments to generate revenues for the company?

So yes, to answer your question, yes, we are. So to give an example, like one of our key segments like your, I would say, within private market, that -- like the DC segment was impacted, which used to be like a large segment. We have actually increased focus on some of the other segments like your corporate sales, which is a very different segment from an investment bank from a PE or a private market investment bank right? So these are the segments that we have also started focusing on, which are actually growing well for us, right? And that is why you see, for instance, that the change in the mix is what you see the reason for growth in India as well. And that's what is sort of also getting replicated. So to answer your question, yes. So we have actually prioritized some of the other segments. -- which used to be probably slower for us, but now our -- because of the fact that we've also augmented our offering there, are going well for us. And we expect that those segments should grow over time as a percentage of the overall segment.

See, what I'm looking at is these are the subsets of segments. I'm looking of complementary to this data, what we are doing what we are giving to customers or clients Other than that, any research base or are we going into different activities to the revenue. If not [indiscernible], I'm talking of other revenues of activities, what we can complement to our set of businesses.

Got it. So that's a great question. So in that respect, actually, there's one, we are actually -- so just to answer that -- there's one bucket of segment that we are actually going more deeper into, which is actually like selling the data into different into the different waves, right? To give you an example, one is your goal AI native way, right? So for instance, we launched that you can now add [indiscernible] data in your in cloud, et cetera, that you are working on. We've also added a chat-based interface, which can do more agentic work, right? So which can actually do more deeper work through integration. And this is actually available at a different sort of pricing, right, which is not part of the subscription, but it's actually a different product today, which is built on the similar data, right? The second -- the third thing that we're also doing is partnering with some of the sort of data platforms, which are sort of you can actually have Tracxn data in various other formats as well. So that is one -- another initiative, which is also there, and we believe that in FY '27, that should actually be a percentage of our revenue as well. It should start contributing in the revenue from this financial year onwards, which is basically traction data, proprietary data being accessible in your AI native workflows across these platforms.

Any inorganic growth we are looking out are in the [indiscernible]? If you cannot name it, you can just give you a broad guideline.

Right. So we continue to sort of evaluate opportunities right now. There are a few interesting opportunities that we have that we are probably seeing doesn't look like immediate, but that's definitely some areas that we continue to explore.

The next question we'll take it from the Q&A section of the chatbox from [indiscernible]. The question is divided to 5 parts. The first question is if international IB accounts is growing, can you explain what segments and international accounts, are we seeing degrowth and bifurcate the growth between pricing and accounts? The second question, can you bifurcate number of --

So, yes. Yes, I'll probably take up that. So yes, thanks, [indiscernible] for that question. So just to -- so actually, the segment that is impacted is the same, right, like we talked about, which is your investment back, which is your [ DC ] as a segment, which you because of the softer market that we have seen impact. That's both India and international, right? So even in India, we into growing at a higher rate. That segment is still probably flattish for us, right? And that is the same segment that is probably getting impacted internationally. While some of the other segments where it's going because in that segment, you also see some of the funds shrinking inside some of the funds cutting headcount, right? So you also see a lot of those things. which is happening in that segment, and that's the impact that we're also seeing, right? So that's probably the segment that has impacted most. And the other ones or the other ones, which is the -- like the IB and the sales that we talked about are the segments which are doing better than this.

The next question is, can you bifurcate number of accounts between India and international and growth degrowth number?

So in terms of the India international, we have given the revenue split. I don't think we have given the accounts split. But just to have some sense, obviously, the India ASP is slightly lower than your international ASPs. So India ASP would be probably about half. So our average ASP is around say, 4 lakh India would be lesser than that and international will be double of India. Okay. Next question is quantification of traction light conversion to traction paid users.

Right, right. So in that sense, yes, we can probably pick up some of the other questions as well [ Ritika ] together. Yes. The question is in more India owns growth. And question number size is the pricing trend between India and international.

Sure, sure. Yes. So [indiscernible], just to answer on those. So traction light is like a big funnel for us. We are seeing sort of good leads from there in terms of the upgrade request, et cetera, that we get. We are also able to sort of prioritize which segments are getting most engaged with us organically, and then we can also do outbound in those segments, which also helps us to find out the engaged users go behind them, right? So that's a good great funnel. There are a lot of other initiatives that we are also doing to engage with these customers, right? So the exact numbers we don't track. But overall, in all the segments, this is like a good PLG acquisition channel for us, right? And in terms of the pricing trend, India international, I think, as I was mentioning, if your international ASP is essentially double off the India one. So the [ Ind AS ] has -- the overall ASP has changed not because the pricing is basically changing, but the customer mix is changing, more about that. So some of the segments which are probably at a lower price point, they are growing well for us. which at a lower price point than an investor. So we see that. But if you see that the ASP change on a Q-on-Q basis, that is -- that are actually sort of converging more. So we expect that to be more in the range from CF.

Thanks, Neha. The next question is from Matthew.

Yes. Yes. I have one question. Like in Q4 FY '23, right, we had around something users, right, 3,227 or something. Now we have around INR 6,200 right roughly doubled, right? And even the dollar has appreciated, right? Let's say, our payments international savings are in dollar, right? Dollar has also appreciated like our own 15, 20 percentage rate in these 3 years. So with the -- our total revenue will be a number of users into costs like into revenue per user, right? So with this calculation in the 3 years, either the revenue should have grown, the only other explanation is that the number of, like, let's say, cost revenue per user has half -- and even from like, let's say, it comes with a lag, like from the last 1 year, at least I'm seeing accelerated increase in the number of users, right, even the lag should be accruing this period right -- that's my question.

Yes. So yes, thanks, Matthew, for that question. So as I was mentioning, the -- so the ASP, for instance, earlier per user, as you were saying, it used to be like currently, it's about INR 1.5 lakh per user per year. Tight, which is probably used to be like about 2.5 per user per year, right? So there has been a change in that. That has been primarily driven by the change in customer mix, right? Not just -- it's not the same users are getting added at a [indiscernible] price point. The segments that we are prioritizing. For instance, your sales of segment corporates as a segment, they have a slightly lower ASP as compared to your earlier investors, right? So that is why you see that the overall growth rate is there. But having said that, like you can also -- like -- so I think what we see is that in the segments, in all the segments, actually, we are sort of growing if you are growing, for instance, in 20% in IB, India, the number of accounts are growing at double that, right? So the number of accounts are growing at 40%, right? So whichever segment wherein we are seeing your user growth more than your account growth more than, say, like a 30%, 40%. In all those segments, we're also seeing sort of revenue growth, right? So what we focus a lot is obviously within a particular segment, how do you sort of increase like your market share over time? And over time, what we have seen is that it's easier to grow your pricing over time.

Okay. Got it. One more question is that is there any way that, let's say, individual investors like us right shareholders. We can use traction late, like I went to the website to check and I think it needed to sign up and like it's only available for organizations, right? Or can we also sign up? Like can just check out how it is?

So yes, Matthew, you should definitely set that out because you should be able to see what we are building and what are the new things that are getting live. You should be able to sign up, I think you require a business e-mail ID there might be personal email IDs may not be allowed, but you need an organization sort of any business I think -- but if you have sort of any business idea, you should be able to be in case not, I can probably have my team also sync up. And obviously, you should be -- you should like see the production platform so that you are also able to see what are the things happening and what are the new things that we are adding for a month in that.

Okay. Got it. The total business are like I can reach out to investor relationship or something in --

Yes, yes. Yes. We will you help you with that. I don't have any other questions.

Thanks, Matthew. Thanks, Neha. Over to you, [indiscernible].

Yes. Thank you very much. I believe that in the interest of time, we will have to close our valuable call now. In case you have any further questions, you can reach out to the management at investor, [email protected]. I will now pass it on to Neha and Abhishek to give the closing remarks.

Thanks a lot to that, and thanks, everyone, for joining us today. I hope you got a clear picture of our recent business update, and we've been able to address some of your queries. If you have any follow queries, peaked reach out to us. As ad was mentioning, you can reach up to our team at [email protected] or you can reach out to us, [email protected] and thanks again. I hope you have a good rest of the day.