Advanced Info Service Public Company Limited (ADVANC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our First -- Second Quarter of 2023 Results Conference Call. Let me introduce the management with us here. First, our CEO, Khun Somchai.

Good morning.

Our Deputy CEO, Khun Mark Chong.

Good morning, everybody.

Chief Consumer Business, Khun Pratthana.

[Foreign Language]

Our CFO, Khun Tee.

our Head of Investor Relations and Compliance, Khun Nattiya.

Good morning.

And myself, Somruetai. Will be briefing you the results and running this session. The session will begin with a short brief and then going directly into Q&A. At this, you may also reserve to ask a question through the chatbox. Please type your name and corporate name. So first on the economy, the second quarter shows a cautious economic recovery from a gradual revival of global tourism coupled with a slightly improved private consumption. While the inherent risks remain in the local political uncertainty causing customers to be more cautious of their spending. AIS' overall focus is to grow the revenue with profitability in both businesses and operations to ensure that the cost is considered truly in offering products and keeping in mind of a sustainable growth in the revenue for the long run while delivering values to the customer. On the mobile side, our quality acquisition strategy may generate lower new prepaid subscriber but it helped grow the total revenue through value package offerings in profitable segments. Together with revival of international traveling, our mobile ARPU improved 1.6% Q-on-Q. AIS will continue prioritizing customer experiences while continuously strengthen the network and service quality to further deliver the revenue growth. Our broadband business maintained double-digit growth with improved ARPU by 1.8% Q-on-Q. The net add may be lower than previous quarter, but this is a result of our focus on profitable revenue growth with quality acquisition through higher value packages, which offset the lower debt and to deliver the momentum in the revenue. We remain committed to create balance in the broadband business offering high-quality and high service standards to address the genuine demand for quality Internet at home. On enterprise side, the growth is maintained with focus in high-margin products riding on the demand for quality connectivity with improved technology by EDS with SD band and the digitization with 5G network. AIS will further focus on connectivity foundation like EDS to cross-sell into multiproduct relationship, bring cloud-related products and tailored vertical solutions for the targeted industries to the customer. This will be reinforced with our flagship 5G Paragon platform to continue growing the enterprise business. Lastly, on cost optimization. We continue our initiatives to soften the year-on-year utilities impact and to achieve operational efficiency. It is our aim to bring our cost inflation, excluding utilities, lower than revenue growth in order to deliver the return to our stakeholders. With all our efforts, our first half showed a growing cost service revenue of 2.1%, leading by quality mobile and broadband focus. Our effective cost management further helped bringing the EBITDA growth of 2.7%. With better operating performance, our net profit grew 10% year-on-year and was at THB 13,937 million or THB 4.69 per share. The Board approved the interim dividend payment in the total amount of THB 11,897 million or THB 4 per share at 85% payout ratio. Our results came in line with management's expectations. Hence, the guidance remains unchanged. And this is still excluding the tributary broadband impact. We believe our strategy to focus on profitability would provide a positive momentum in revenue, the execution of cost saving and controls will yield further results where we are driving to change our operating model in our core foundations with autonomous network, IT intelligence and data insight and customer care to deliver this performance. This is the aim of the short brief, and we'll start the Q&A session now.

[Operator Instructions] And we have Khun Wasu from Maybank.

Thank you for the presentation, Som. I have 6 questions in total. Perhaps I can go with the first 3 questions first. The first question is about the subscriber trend especially for the mobile business. Why is there a difference in subscriber trend between Advanced and True? True seem to gain a little bit of subscribers while Advanced loss subscribers in the second quarter? So that's the first question. The second question is about the outlook for the nonmobile enterprise revenue. I'm curious about the outlook of this business segment because the enterprise revenue growth was only 1% year-on-year in the first half of this year. In the past, I have seen that the enterprise revenue always had double-digit growth this year, but it seems to be slowing down this year. Why is that? So that's the second question. The third question is about ARPU. Do you believe that ARPU increases in the mobile and fixed broadband businesses sustainable going forward? So those are the first 3 questions.

Let me address the first one. Regarding the subscriber trends. AIS is very much focused on the quality customer. So in the latest quarter, we have much, much less focus on rotational customer. The short-term prepaid that highly rotated has been not focused whereby our competitor, as you read the report and ask them, there has been adding highly rotational inclusive of [indiscernible] and travelers as they declare. So that makes the actual customer have less for AIS. But the real customer, the value customers are key to us, and we continue on monitoring the growth of that and we're quite satisfied on that piece.

On the nonmobile enterprise, this is our clear direction because in the past, enterprise on the nonmobile by selling everything on the ICT part that we -- now we move to focus more on the profitable in spite the revenue growth. To enterprise in terms of ICT, it will easy, but I think it's not healthy. We will focus on our core nonmobile thing like the EDS, like the cloud, like the data center and also a 5G vertical industry that we selected that will make us more scalable in this matter. So we don't say like the only equipment to go the revenue as far as the past. This is the main reason.

For the third question regarding sustainability of ARPUs, let me address on the mobile side. We truly reinforce the value and we want to build a sustainability of the value and ARPU. I cannot predict the competitors, but for us, we really much focus on that, and we want it to be very sustainable.

Just to add to Khun Pratthana's comment. I think we -- at AIS say, as we believe we want to focus on higher value segment, more than -- I think the lower end. I think we have been saying about this for the past many years. There are certain segments that we can do business with and get, I think, good returns, and there are some segment that is very risky. So I think in the past 2 years, we have been trying to focus on the more profitable segment and maybe we can deliver more value to them as well. So I think they see more benefit. And for us, it's also a more sustainable business that we can deliver to them. So we do believe that the trend will be sustainable hopefully, because it's a win-win situation for the operator and also for consumers.

Khun Wasu, please ask you further questions.

Okay. So before I move on, may I ask about the enterprise revenue again? So is it reasonable to assume like low single-digit growth for the enterprise revenue this year?

I think we still set the target on the losing -- low double-digit growth, maybe 10%, 70% something. It depends on the demand in the market. Like I used to tell you that enterprise nonmobile market, it will huge in the market allow THB 300 million total revenue market, but most in the equipment sale that is not generate more profit. We try to map to a focus on our core non-mobile, which can make more profitable. This is the thing that we try.

Maybe just to add a little bit. It's not only the ICT, maybe grow nonmobile in the past. All of that is a sale through. And we want to do that to gain certain scale. However I think at a certain point in time, we want to pivot more towards, I think, our own product and services, which we can actually manage more of the margin. So going forward, we may not push for a very high growth number on the nonmobile enterprise business, but we want to really look at something that we do and it can tie back to the core business as well as utilizing our own products more than just a sale through.

Okay. Understood. So my remaining 3 questions. The first 1 is, what is the CapEx trend over the next 3 years now that Advance has around 90% population coverage for the 5G network? And the next 1 is what is the latest update on the 700 megahertz deal with NT? And the final question is what is the latest update on the Triple T broadband deal?

Let me take the first question on CapEx trend over the next 3 years. Yes, actually, we are 90% -- practically 90% coverage, but over the next 3 years, we do expect CapEx trend to remain roughly at about this year's level essentially because there's also a need to densify the network as more -- on 5G as more hand phones come on board. That's the main reason.

On 700 megahertz of NT and also 3BB [indiscernible] it depends on the NBTC approval. On 700 megahertz both AIS at NT, already approved Projects. Now we are waiting on the process of NBTC approving the transferring the frequency. Because of this deal, we also buy back their 5 megahertz of 700 megahertz frequency also. 3BB as you follow the news they are also in the process of a subcommittee even with our view. I think it should not happen because according to VTech merger, they can acknowledge this deal, however there should no problem, it depends on the time frame that NBTC will call to their own total process and approval system.

Do you still expect the Triple T broadband deal to be completed within the third quarter?

We have the plan like this, but it still depends on NBTC, but on NBTC, they also said, but they said allow maybe October something like this.

Thank you. Now we have Khun Pisut.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

This is Pisut from Kasikorn Securities, may I have 4 questions. The first 1 about JASIF, as you may know [indiscernible], your ultimate shareholders has increased its holding on JASIF to 5% and Advance is about to buy 19% stake. Just wondering about the tender offer requirement. For example, will the regulations count both [indiscernible] and Advance? or only Advance as a shareholder of JASIF. And also this is correct that if you pass for the combined, if you pass 75%, it will trigger the tender occur, and if it's happening, who going to be -- going to pay for the tender offer, either Advance or [indiscernible]? And also the -- about the tender offer price, if it happened, it's going to be THB 8.5 as you propose to buy it from Jasmine or something else? That's my first question. My second question is regarding your guidance. Your first half EBITDA growth was 2.7%, if I -- my calculation is correct. You seem slightly short of your full year guidance of mid-single-digit growth. Also your second half last year EBITDA was bigger than first half EBITDA, which means you are facing the high base. Could you share with us about -- I mean underlying assumptions that make you confident to deliver 5% to 9% year-on-year EBITDA growth for the second half, if I subtract the full year with the first half of this year? This is my second question. My third question is regarding your pricing restructuring, what about it so far in July for both mobile and fixed broadband? Have you seen the sequential uplift in the ARPU from the previous quarter for both services? Also, what about your competitor reactions on your price fixing implementations? And I do notice that True has introduced the installation fee on the fixed broadband service, but I haven't seen you followed it. So what was your thoughts on that? And my last question, I just want to know your thoughts on the merger of TUCE and DTN that just announced. Will this strengthen your competitors' service quality? And also if they can combine the spread down, what's your thought on the upcoming competitive environment if it happening?

I will answer the last question, I think this is all the original plan, try to combined TUCE and DTN together, however, in the beginning that they proposed to NBTC to approve in the holding level that it agreed to get the appeal for the NBTC. This did not surprise us. However, there's all the things that they need to do more like frequency control daily kind of the combined it not easy. It have to go to the NBTC to get the approval for [indiscernible] and AIS also have the [indiscernible] to veto because when we go to the auction still have some condition in this position of frequency also. This is all the things that -- if they need to do something to make them more stringent. It still depend on NBTC approval. I don't think this is surprised us. I think it's a normal PAM that they will do step by step.

Allow me to take the third 1 on the price restructuring progress. So far, it has been as we guided on plan. We have continuously see the stabilizations of the restructuring and repair in the market as well as the ARPU as also a result of this quarter. On the competition, I would say we seem to feel that competition follows that what we have observed so far from the market. I also like to address a bit on the indication for installation fee. Installation fee for broadband has been sort of put in, we believe, is to prevent fraud. In many plans that has insulation fee customer will get the return each month. For example, like installation fee could be THB 800 and customer will get THB 100 back per month from month 1 until month 8, for example, or month 9, for example, that's to prevent fraud. So far has been -- for us, as we have been focused on qualities of acquisition. So that's probably not the issue of AIS.

On the second question on your EBITDA guidance. Yes, you are right. On the first half, we still cannot achieve based on the guidance that we plan the whole year. However, while we can like that. Normally, on the second quarter end, it's the lowest season of the usage of the mobile trend to go high on the third quarter, especially in the fourth quarter, that's why we plan to get more revenue in the third and fourth quarter because normally, these are high seasons. However, there are some challenges on our guidance also because, as you know, today, the political uncertainty in Thailand, PMC is not selected to at least also not come must ask me we forecast at the beginning of the year. However, we still see the trend, of course, is still have some leaks on our guidance, but I push my team try to do best on the [indiscernible] on the third quarter and fourth quarter is the high season.

Yes. And to add on Khun Somchai's comment, there are certain costs that we do see is going to come down towards the end of the year. And that part gave us a bit of room. However, I think on the overall guidance, I think if we don't get the government sooner to kick start the economic recovery, then there's some risk to the guidance as well. On your first question, yes, if I don't think we have a lot to comment. We have no control on what I think [indiscernible] do. But what I can tell you is we have no intention to cross the tender offer. I think in the fund itself, it's going to be very complicated if we did that. So there's -- for sure, there's no intention that we've now cross to do a tender offer.

Now we have on Khun Ranjan, JPMorgan.

Two questions from my side. Firstly, the marketing spend has declined very sharply, 25% down year-on-year, 8% down quarter-on-quarter. Should we expect the levels to be where it has reached in the second quarter? Or is there some delay in spend? Second, a bit offbeat question, but how do you see -- whether you see Starlink launching in Thailand might affect your broadband plans in the country?

Ranjan, let me address the first 1 regarding marketing expense. We're very much focused on delivering the communications as well as the channel and also customer retention as a part of whole marketing expense. For the first half, we successfully implemented a lot of strategy, including online. So it helped us improve the efficiencies. Somehow it's a lot to do with seasonal as well. In the second half, there will be seasonality sort of coming in. So we do expect to kind of spend over the high season of spending.

On the Starlink question, we understand Starlink is -- well, evaluating entry into Thailand. But really, Thailand, I think, in terms of mobile coverage is quite well established, as we mentioned, 90% roughly. So actually, Starlink can be complementary in areas where there's no mobile coverage. But in terms of affecting broadband, we don't think that will be a serious alternative, yes, can even be complementary.

So can I have a quick follow-up question? On the -- firstly, on the marketing. If you have higher efficiencies coming from online channels, then we should expect the marketing spend to remain lower in the second half versus last year. Is that a fair assessment? Secondly...

It may not be -- sorry to interject. It may not be because of depending on the program. So I don't think we can say that.

Got it.

Ranjan, actually, you're right, the first half has been -- our marketing spend has been well controlled. In the second half, as Pratthana mentioned, it's high season. So you could expect some well, slight increase perhaps in marketing spend. Yes.

Got it. And for the Starlink question, do you have any idea on when they might launch in Thailand?

Sorry, -- no idea, not in a position to talk about that.

Yes. I think if you talk about Starlink, you should look at the service fee that they can expect to really compete in the Thai market. To me, I don't think will be high on that list, both from the coverage point of view, plus the service fee that they can get because they need to compete with a lot of other local services that we provide here. I think, quite a much lower pricing level. So if they have other alternative options, then probably they may go for other countries first.

Arthur from Citi, please.

Three questions, please. Firstly, on 5G. Why are we not seeing a firmer uptick in ARPUs. When you look at 5G penetration, it's basically double to high teens, yet you're not seeing improvements in ARPUs even in postpaid. How do you reconcile that with a 10% to 15% price premium? Second question I had is with regard to broader mobile pricing. What is the outlook for this into the second half of this year now that the elections are over? Is there room for price repair? Or do you think this will be difficult in light of the environment? Last question I had is with regard to the postpaid base. I noticed -- I do know that you've mentioned there's a focus on premium users, which led to the lower base. I'm just wondering what's the difference in returns with these rotational users? Are there rotational users not profitable at all, so that it serves to be deemphasized?

For the first 1 regarding 5Gs. 5G segment has given us about 10% to 15% uplift in ARPUs. And overall base are also still a mix of the lower plan prepaid to postpaid and all of those, it has been helping us stabilize the ARPU has been increased a bit as well in terms of 5G. For the second one, I'm not so sure whether I catch it correctly. Is that the question about an overall the outlook or the ARPU?

Within the market, yes, the expectation and pricing.

Got it. As we discussed earlier, the hours, so we believe that has been stabilized, and we believe that it will continue and reflect the real values of what customers use that's probably what I can say now moving forward. For the third question regarding the value customer segment, when we talk about, and when Khun Tee talked about high-value segment, probably I'd like to kind of alluding to the value segment rather than high value. The value segment postpaid. So this value segment, it means that the -- we can serve them properly with the good quality as well as the right price point. The low-value segment or negative value segment, naming the Super unlimited law plan those ones that we intended to curve it down as you saw from the market that is no longer available. So I hope I addressed it correctly on the last one.

Maybe I'll just elaborate a bit on the last part. Yes, I think the value plans at the postpaid plans, and we think those are the good customers to keep. On the prepaid side, of course, you have got those that are value, those who are transitional, we talk about migraine transitional holiday tourist SIMs. So at that transitional prepaid segment, then it becomes a question of evaluating the life value of these customers versus the incentive commission, whatever distribution costs that we may have to incur. So that comes from our own analysis that's built up over time, yes.

Sorry, just to clarify on the first question on the 5G ARPUs, I'm just not understanding this very well. If you look at your postpaid ARPU, for instance, this has gone down.

Maybe, if I may -- sorry to interrupt you. Maybe I'll just add on to the earlier explanation. The 5G ARPU is higher than the 4G ARPU but the proportion of 5G in the base is still relatively small relative to the whole base because most of the 5G handsets are actually high-end handsets. There are not enough low-end handset to convert the base. Yes.

But this has basically doubled from 9% to 17% of your base. And the postpaid subs have been fairly flat, yet ARPUs have gone down. So this would have gone down even more sharply if you didn't have this 5G migration. Is that how we should think about this?

But -- it's THB 1 I think is an average -- I think you could see that as flat.

Now we have Piyush, HSBC, please.

Congrats for good set of progress. Two questions from my side. Firstly, in mobile, can you update us what percentage of your subscribers are on unlimited plans. What has been the progress of moving subscribers away from unlimited? And also just on the price repair side, how does company think about broad-based tariff hike across plans? Like is that even a possibility given the macro environment? Secondly, on broadband, what has helped to increase the ARPU quarter-on-quarter? Is it the subscriber mix change to higher ARPU plans? So any kind of details over there would be helpful. And what's the outlook for broadband ARPU?

Okay. For the first question regarding unlimited plan, we indicated earlier last quarter, it's roughly about -- I think it's 25% is a mix of the high-end plan and the of the previously low implant. The second 1 I assume I got it correctly, but let me try to address. What you're asking is, is there a way to adjust the broad-based ARPU up? Is that the question?

Yes, with the tariff hikes. So we are seeing trends of tariff hikes happening in India, in Indonesia, where it is happening across the plants. So is that even a possibility? And also on the unlimited like what's that number now in 2Q? 25% of subs were in 1Q, right? Has it changed in the second quarter?

Coming back to the first one, roughly stable at 25% on the unlimited. On the broad-based tariff adjustment here in Thailand, the tariff has certain validity, for example, if one subscribe to [indiscernible] would last for about 12 months. So it will be changes of the tariff per customer in the next 12 months for each individual. So that would be probably the sequence in general.

Okay. I think trying to read what's actually going on in the analyst's mind, maybe first, let me explain this, the way that we kind of slow down ARPU dilution and partly, we contain cutting spending is also which segment we focus in doing business with. As mentioned, I think we try to do business with or maximize the value with the mid- to high value segment, and we keep the low end as we need it. I think that's probably the way to think about this because when the economy is kicking back, I think the mid- to high will have more money to spend. They have higher purchasing power. So right now, it's a competing to get the low end. We actually shift the focus of the company plus the dealers because you need to think of this as the whole engine and this cause in every element whether you spend on low versus mid and high, right? So I think right now, we are not actually uplifting the ARPU of the whole base such yet, we're actually changing the mix, including the spending throughout the whole system so that we can actually maximize and optimize -- maximize revenue and optimize the cost. Let's put it that way. I think it's also linked to the marketing spending, whether it's going to come back or not. To a certain extent, it will come back once we need to expand the low end of the base. But for now, I think we try to optimize to get through this kind of economic low end. On broadband, I think we also follow the same thing. Broadband is actually costlier if we get into the wrong segment because the upfront investment is quite big. I think overall, 5,000, 6,000 per subscriber asset acquisition cost is possible. So we actually still having the 299, 399 in the market in terms of price plan, but that will only be for the old technology and the low end kind of speed level, which we're not going to focus anymore. So we focus the higher speed here, the fiber and then the [indiscernible] segment. I think that's why I want to put the money in. So I think right now, the first step is actually -- is the focus the company on a certain segment so that we can optimize the ways of the engine. And that also includes marketing spending, as mentioned, both on mobile and on broadband, right? But once we maximize this mid- to high segment, then we need to go down and also find a way to do good business at the lower tier as well.

Got it. And as you're saying, the validity of the plants is generally 12 months. So what is keeping the unlimited subscriber base stable quarter-on-quarter? Like -- so you are -- subscribers are still renewing the unlimited data plans. You have not completely removed them at the time of when the renewal comes?

For the new subscriber, the unlimited loan plan are no longer available. For existing base, some has been renewed according to their usage. Some of them has been discontinued. So we go down to the PL micro segmentation to provide customer as to what suit for them. And also, they are higher end of customers who are in higher plan, naming more than 1,199. They also get unlimited, but there's also to mix in there.

Yes. I think the unlimited portion itself is not an issue. It's more the mix of this low end or high end. And typically, when you renew the plan for the low end, a lot of time, you still have to give them unlimited but at a higher price point. So we slowly shift them up.

And now we have Hussaini from UBS.

Most of my questions are answered. Just 3 small questions. First is that AIS is focusing on mid- to high end of the market. So I want to understand how much this low end of the market represents in terms of percentage of revenues, which AIS is not focusing on? I understand that it's not profitable. But from the revenue point of view, I just wanted to understand how much it represents? And then going into second half in terms of further cost optimization, I understand that sales and marketing has come off quite a lot. But what are other areas, of course, where you see potential for further reduction going into second half? And just a clarification on network OpEx and NT partnership costs, which was up around 6% quarter-on-quarter. Now I want to understand what drove this increase quarter-on-quarter.

I think on the first question, I think we -- well, we have 46 million customers, and we think all of them are important. And if you look at the penetration -- mobile penetration in the market, which is 150%, 160%. So we are really seeking ARPU-generating customers, not those -- the SIMs that are distributed for free and not really generating ARPU. There are free SIMs being circulated for transitional users. And so that's the kind of low-end, low-ARPU, low revenue-generating customers that we do not seek that's what we mean. So even if you have THB 150 on a regular basis to us, that's an important customer to have.

Yes, I think on cost optimization, for example, I think, towards the end of this year, then we do expect electricity cost to come down versus, I think, the first half of this year, which I think all of us suffer a lot from really high price. There are other things, including, I think, as we streamline the acquisition. It doesn't mean that we don't do business on the low end. It's just when we try to expand, we expand more mid to high and more on the acquisition and also ARPU uplift. With that, then we can also control part of the acquisition costs as well and also the churn because a lot of time, it's coming in by this high churn. So when you churn, then this also need to write off and other things. So I think those are some of the things that we try to optimize towards the second half of this year.

The last question on network OpEx because we are basically roaming on TOT 2100 megahertz. So traffic, depending on the quarters may go up and down and that will sink with both the revenue line and cost line, but the net payment to NTE has remained the same.

Khun Thitithep, KKPS.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

Okay. I have a few questions -- a follow-up question on the marketing expense. New minutes to cut marketing expense quite aggressively. Can you tell us the last breakdown of marketing expense right now? How much is advertising, how much is either event of customer acquisition costs or the dealer commission? That's the first question. Secondly, you mentioned that the amount of marketing expense may come up seasonally in the second half. How about beyond the second half? Because if you look at absolute amount, the total SG&A viewers right now is my slower than your competitor. And then the third question, do you think the market consolidation has helped you to reduce your marketing expense? Thank you, 3 questions.

Unfortunately, I don't think we can provide the breakdown of the marketing. But what we can say is that this year, we definitely try to optimize a lot of area. We keep tight control. Part of it, yes, the environment of the market may help us, but we also bear in mind that second quarter, third quarter is also a low season. And then when the fourth quarter comes in, we still expect some seasonal spend. Second quarter, third quarter, as we optimize and it's seasonal. So advertising or some of the campaigns we can limit I think the important ones like the retention for the customers or how we give incentives to the dealers towards the same strategy of quality acquisition rather than just the acquisition of numbers, those are the budget that we intend to keep to deliver the top line.

Right, could [indiscernible] if you cannot tell us the breakdown, can you tell us what is [indiscernible] is advertising, right? Customer retention, dealer incentive? Is the handset subsidy included in marketing?

Yes. Yes. Handset subsidy also include. And we have also controlled the subsidy in the first half.

Right. And then I shouldn't be worried about the fact that the absolute amount is much lower than your peer, right? I mean, are we going to see you ramp up the marketing expense once economy is back on track, maybe next year or 2025?

It's really depending on the demand in the markets and seasonal [indiscernible]. The absolute amount is actually reflect that and the dynamic in competition as well. Now literally, in Thailand, there are only 2. So less aggressiveness in the distribution, less of aggressiveness in the acquisition. So I don't know whether I qualify to say or not, but basically, it's sort of part of the help as well.

Yes. I think what I try to add is, typically, we already spend much lower in terms of percentage compared to our competitor. So it doesn't mean that we need to go up to that level if we can still be effective. So hopefully, you don't just compare our spending in terms of percentage and the thing that we need to compete by upping the level to be the same as [indiscernible].

We have [indiscernible] from [indiscernible].

My question has already been asked, so we don't have further questions.

So is there other questions from the floor? We still have some time left. Piyush, please.

Just a follow-up on the mobile side. Could you help us understand what is the customer acquisition cost for every subscriber addition in the mobile? Because if we are focusing towards quality subscribers, that cost element will obviously keep being controlled, right? So I just want to understand what's that per subscriber cost. And can you also talk about your interest cost has increased? So how should we think about it going forward?

On mobile acquisition costs, this has to do a lot with actually the level of ARPU or subscriber that we are getting and how long they can stay with us. As I think we try to mention in this call is that the quality acquisition is really important for us so that we can manage the incentives, the distribution to the customer a lot better. It doesn't mean that not necessarily that we will cut all the costs, but we can more efficiently divert the acquisition cost through the retention. So we can keep the higher ARPU longer, and therefore, it doesn't create a constant transition of the subscriber to us.

Yes. That's actually a better word, the quality subscribers better than what I used mid-to-high. So anyway, it's hard to really give you an average acquisition cost per sub on mobile because it comes in first different type of ARPUs, prepose and whether it's going to come with handset subsidy or not. So a lot of time, we play with different factors to get to the revenue amount that we would like to have, and it depends on the trend in the market as well, what works and what doesn't work. And a lot of time, we need to adjust this incentive so that our dealers and sales adjust to focus on the right segment that we want to focus on.

Interest cost. We recently issued a new debenture and as the market rate is still basically higher than our average rate. So it's up a little bit. Ongoing, I think post acquisition of 3BB, we will be fully funded that portion. So we also continue to expect the market rate to be higher than our current average. So that will continue to maybe in top a bit.

Yes. We have Hussaini, follow-up questions, please?

Yes. Just on the revenue market share now as your competitors are -- will be busy integrating the network? Do AIS still see room for market share increase in the coming quarters or years? Or do you see that market share here as likely to remains stable?

I don't think we are able to say whether we will increase our revenue market share because I think this will be quite dynamic even as our -- even as the other side of the industry, we built their network, I don't think they will stay idle and let us take away customers. So definitely, there will be some response. So I think what we hope to see is that the overall pie, the mobile industry grows so that it's better for everybody.

If there's -- is there other questions from the floor please?

Yes, I have 1 follow-up question. This is Wasu from Maybank. So the question is about Triple T Broadband. Since Triple T has a lot of net losses in the first and probably in the second quarter as well. Should we be concerned about the loss -- the net losses from Triple T dragging AIS performance going forward?

I think going forward, if we get to acquire and this way to solve the net losses to synergies and optimization. But in the short term, we'll see. I think let's wait with -- I think the general meeting will get to what resolution. I think it's too early to say. But when we look at the deal way back earlier, we did figure out a way to get the synergies coming back up, but it takes a bit of time. So that's all I can say.

We have a message from the chatbox, [indiscernible] from AR Capital. He would like to comment on any tower sales given industry is consolidated and mobile penetration is 150%, and Infra network is not a competitive advantage.

I think we used to mention that we have kind of undergone some studies on this. For now, it's not in the right environment to do monetization. We still can tap into other funding options with more effective cost plus I think there are still certain value to control the asset. But when the right time comes, I think that will be an option that we look at for sure.

Thank you very much. And before we end this session, please allow us to update the previously communicated analyst meeting on the 22nd August, it is now postponed and will be updated providing the investment committee with the update to [indiscernible]. So thank you, everyone, for participating and see you again next quarter. Thank you.

Thank you. Bye.