CIE Automotive, S.A. (CIE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon again, and welcome to the results for the third quarter of 2025 CIE Automotive. We have Lorea Aristizábal with us today. There will be questions at the end of the session and questions can only be asked in writing via the webcast tool. And now I hand over to Lorea. Go ahead, please.

Good afternoon, everyone. It seems there's been a problem with the microphones, and we've received 300,000 messages saying that you were hearing us. I hope we didn't say anything terrible. But good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the CIE Automotive 2025 third quarter results conference. But before moving on to the results, let's briefly review what's happened in the markets to put our performance into context. Starting with Europe, where production has grown by 1% in the quarter, although in the accumulated 9-month figure, it's still below last year 2%. News for the quarter in Europe. Well, in the trade area, we have to highlight the agreement reached on July 27 between the United States and Europe, which has somehow helped to ease tensions, an agreement that avoids the initially planned increase to 30% of the tariffs and establishes a tariff of 15%, which is added to the tariff of 2.5% that already existed for vehicles exported from Europe to the U.S., and which is applicable retroactively from August 1. This agreement provides a breathing space for the European car industry and brings some stability. On the other hand, the European environment is still marked by competitive pressure from Chinese manufacturers who continue to gain market share in Europe through imports. According to the latest data available between January and August, their sales increased by 75%, reaching a share of 4.9% of the market compared to 2.9% in 2024. August was also the fourth consecutive month with a market share for Chinese manufacturers of over 5%. It is true that the expansion of Chinese manufacturers in Europe is showing different dynamics. Hybrids are gaining ground, which have reached almost half of sales in recent months compared to pure electric and combustion vehicles, mainly due to the fact that hybrid vehicles are free of tariffs. It's also important to mention that some Chinese OEMs have started local production in Europe. This is the big headline that we are reading every day, but always under the CKD model. That is by assembling vehicles from complete imported kits with little local content. This is the case, for example, of GAC or XPeng, which have started to assemble at Magna's Austrian plant in Graz. BYD is also expected to begin assembly later this year in this new plant in Hungary and Turkey, with a planned capacity of 200,000 and 150,000 vehicles per year, respectively. While Chery has already assembled since 2024 in Barcelona in collaboration with Ebro. Other variables affecting the health of the sector in Europe, the penetration of the electric vehicles, which continues to consolidate its position in the market. In the third quarter, electrified vehicles, electric plus hybrid accounted for 27% of sales in Europe compared to 21% in the same period last year, a significant increase. Today, the European regulatory framework on emissions is still uncertain and generates a certain caution among consumers. But it's true that the demand for electric vehicles is being favored by issues such as the launching of new models. And in particular, we believe, because of the new incentives as those announced in July by the British government, in September by the French government, in October by the German government. This is the scenario. And with this scenario, a fall in European production in 2025 is expected of 2% in an environment of capacity utilization of approximately 60%, which reinforces the need for structural adjustments in the sector, including capacity closures and further consolidation between suppliers as we have been discussing for some time. In fact, several Tier 1s have announced important adjustments this quarter. We've heard Bosch that expects to eliminate 13,000 jobs by 2030, Conti at more than 10,000 cuts, ZF with a reduction of up to 7,600 jobs, Valeo, Schaeffler, et cetera. All these examples illustrate the magnitude of the adjustment process facing the European supply chain. If we now move on to North America, the market has recorded a growth of 5% during the quarter. And in fact, it's the first quarter this year with a positive evolution putting the accumulated 9 months in a decline close to 1%, a quarter led by a production growth of 8% in the United States, caused in particular, by the advanced sale of electric vehicles following the cancellation of the federal tax incentives on September 30. In this third quarter, we have also learned that the Mexican government has ruled out BYD's plans to install an electric vehicle factory in the country, given its own trade uncertainty with the United States and because of Trump's tariff policy pressure towards China and also affecting Mexico. With a view to the end of 2025, we expect North America to end the year with minus 2%, with Mexico falling slightly by 1% and the United States falling 2%, reflecting an environment that is still heavily conditioned by trade volatility and uncertainty. Moving to the other end of the world, China, which has recorded a very solid quarter of growth with an increase of 10% in vehicle production during the third quarter, which means a cumulative growth of 12% in the first 9 months of the year. This is and continues to be the main driver for world car production. The Chinese domestic market has been supported by the expansion of the replacement and decommissioning programs with grants of up to CNY 20,000, approximately EUR 2,500 for electrical hybrid vehicles and up to CNY 15,000, approximately EUR 2,000 for more efficient combustion models. But these amounts have to be added to the already historic tax benefits for the purchase of electrified vehicles which are in force until 2027, and which have historically boosted demand. Meanwhile, Chinese exports remained very strong during the quarter, over 500,000 units exported only in September, which has meant a 21% year-on-year, 6% compared to the previous month. They continue to grow. In the first 9 months, exports reached 4 million vehicles, 12% more than in the same period of the previous year. In this context, September, has been the highest monthly production level of the year with 2.4 million vehicles with new energy vehicles already accounting for more than 50% of total production. The competitive environment in China remains to be tremendously demanding. The price war between manufacturers continues to push margins. We see this every time the results are released from the Chinese manufacturers and there's an extremely high turnover of models in the local market. A context that speaks of a very probable consolidation process in the Chinese market. There are currently over 120 brands of electric vehicles to give you an idea when the forecast suggests that only about 15 will be able to maintain a profitable position and survive beyond 2030. Meanwhile, Chinese manufacturers continue to consolidate their dominion with a share of 66% so far this year compared to 24% for Western companies and barely 10% for Japanese and Korean companies. Going back to America, to Brazil, which confirms its role as one of the most dynamic geographies this year. Vehicle production remained flat in the third quarter, but the market has accumulated a growth of 5% in the first 9 months of the year, supported by strong domestic consumption in a solid labor market and also supported by exports. During this quarter, the implementation of aid programs have continued. In this case, we have the MOVER program, Green Mobility and Innovation, which came into effect in June and replaces the previous program, Rota 2030. The new program brings in a program of incentives and penalties based on the energy efficiency of the vehicles with more than EUR 600 million in aid for 2025 and over EUR 3 billion up to 2028. And at the same time, and this is very interesting, Brazilian government has strengthened the protection measures for the automotive industry in Brazil. On the one hand, while adjusting import tariffs for electrified vehicles, electric vehicles -- imported electric vehicles have gone from a tariff of 18% to 25%, hybrids from 25% to 30% and the plug-in hybrids are from 20% to 28%. And this has been the penultimate step in the tariff escalation since the last stage of the increase is scheduled for July 2026, when the rate -- the tariff will reach 35% for all types of imported electrified vehicles. What has been the trigger for this fast change in tariffs, the fact that almost half of the 200,000 vehicles imported by Brazil in the first part of the year have been electrified models. On the other hand, what else has Brazil done? They have brought forward by 1.5 years the tariff increase for CKD vehicles originally planned for July 2028 and which has now moved to January '27. At this point, the tariff for CDK (sic) [ CKD ] vehicles will go from the current 14% to 35%. All these are decisions that reinforce the country's priority to accelerate the location of electrified vehicles in the supply chain and to enhance local value. I was saying before that exports have also been one of the pillars and they've showed an exceptional performance. In August, almost 60,000 units were exported, the highest level since 2018. And in the cumulative figure up to August, there were almost 400,000 exported vehicles with a year-on-year growth of more than 50%. Argentina has consolidated as the main destination with close to 60% of Brazilian exports after increasing by more than 150% compared to last year. With a view to the end of the year, Brazilian production is expected to grow by around 8% with a strong final quarter and becoming the geography with the largest expansion this year without a doubt, consolidating its leadership among emerging markets. We finished this review with India, which adds one more quarter of sustained growth and remains one of the strongest and most stable markets this year. In the third quarter, the production of passenger vehicles increased by 5% to 1.5 million units. And in the 9 months of backlog, they have advanced by 4% driven by domestic demand and by a more favorable monetary environment. The Central Bank has applied 3 interest rate reductions, 25 basis points in February, 25 in April, 50 in June and has put the reference rate at 5.5% in a country where the vehicle financing rate is around 70%. These decisions have helped to improve access to credit and to sustain consumer demand. The third quarter has also been marked by the coming into force of the GST reform, which is effective since September, reducing the tax on small- and medium-sized cars from 28% to 18%, while larger or luxury vehicles, however, are taxed at a rate of 40%, a tax simplification that seeks to boost fleet renewal to stimulate demand. And it said that it is expected to have an effect of between 5% and 10% on sales in the fiscal year 2026. With a moderate inflation in the range of 1.5% to 3% and a monsoon that has been favorable, it has just finished, the market dynamics have remained positive across all segments, the various segments we're in, tractors, trucks, 2-wheelers. And including all the segments, India has already consolidated its position as the third world automotive market. And again, including passenger vehicles, bikes, trucks, tractors, and they have even surpassed Japan with a total volume of close to 25 million vehicles per year, a market that continues to grow and which is reinforcing its structural weight in the global industry. We closed the chapter on markets by referring to the global market, where our market grew by 3% in the third quarter and 1% in the first 9 months of the year, a context where CIE has recorded a growth of more than 7% at constant exchange rates in the quarter, surpassing the global market by 4 points, and excellent performance in the third quarter that has offset the lower growth we had in the first half of the year, and which has consolidated the outperformance in these first 9 months of the year. For 2025 as a whole, the CIE market would close with a growth close to 1%, supported by the strength of the emerging markets, particularly the growth in Brazil, India and to a lesser degree, China, which will offset the moderation of other geographies and mature markets. This is the market context. This is what has happened in this third quarter. And what has happened at CIE during this third quarter? Well, sales that reached EUR 974 million, 2.5% more than in the third quarter of 2024. Despite an unfavorable currency environment that has greatly affected the reported figures, almost by EUR 100 million, cumulative figures up to September, where sales grew 1.9% at constant exchange rate, which means doubling the 0.9% growth of the market in the fiscal year 2025 and operating results where our margins again show a very solid levels. In the quarter, EBITDA stood at EUR 184 million with a margin of 18.9%, an EBIT of EUR 133 million with a margin of 13.7% and an EBITDA that grew by 4% in absolute terms compared to the same period the previous year, EUR 184 million, we have said, compared to EUR 177 million last year. Without the negative impact of the exchange rate, the EBITDA would have exceeded EUR 200 million. In the cumulative figures up to September, an EBITDA of 19% and EBIT of 14.1%. And this should remind us that our margins do not depend on the where, but on the how of the management model because the homogeneity of margins between geographies confirms the strength of the global margin. So to round off, operating results, we show a net profit of EUR 80 million in the quarter and EUR 266 million in the first 9 months of the year, which would have been more than EUR 275 million at a constant exchange rate. We now move on to the cash flow and the balance sheet where the performance is reflected. In the first 9 months of the year, CIE has generated EUR 384 million in operating cash flow, which is equivalent to a conversion rate of almost 71% of EBITDA, a performance that is supported on the one hand, by efficient working capital management, on the other by a CapEx of EUR 144 million, 4.8% of sales, the lowest level since 2022, reflecting an investment that I have to say has already been normalized after the practical completion of the greenfield plant in Northern Mexico, a plant that's in the ramp-up phase and a project that will bring a significant growth in sales and results progressively over the coming quarters. So discipline in the use of capital with financial payments and taxes as foreseen, a payout to the shareholder of EUR 54 million, the supplementary dividend for the financial year 2024 paid out last July and the self-takeover for a final value of EUR 27.4 million. In the area of inorganic growth, and I'd like to remind you that during the third quarter, the acquisition of the Brazilian company, Techniplas was formalized, a Brazilian subsidiary of the Techniplas Group for an amount close to EUR 65 million. With Techniplas, a company specialized in plastic injection, we strengthened our historical relationship with European and American manufacturers in Brazil and our most recent relationship with important Asian manufacturers in Brazil. This means an important complement and an upgrade for our technological portfolio. It's a project that offers us the opportunity to grow significantly in the coming years, thanks to projects that have already been brought in and investments in production capacity that have already been made. And despite the disbursements for the dividend payout, the takeover and the acquisition of Techniplas, the net financial debt stands at EUR 981 million, with a leverage ratio of 1.3x EBITDA at historic lows. If we adjust this figure for the nonrecurring effects, such as the acquisition of Techniplas and the self-takeover, we will be talking about a net recurring financial debt of around EUR 888 million, equivalent to a pro forma ratio of approximately 1.2x net financial debt EBITDA, a position that reflects a balanced and sustainable balance sheet, which is strong, sustainable and with a very high generation capacity. With 9 months completed and with this snapshot, we confirm the objectives for our strategic plan 2021-2025, which we will achieve, thanks to the balanced performance and the contribution of each and every one of the geographies and the operational cash flow generated quarter after quarter. So thank you all for your time and for your interest in CIE. And with this, we conclude the presentation, and we are available for your questions.

Okay. We have a lot of questions. Let's try to group them together. I'll start with questions regarding Q3 at CIE. I'll put two together, the impact of the hack suffered by Jaguar Land Rover and how much the acquisition of Brazil contributes to this third quarter?

The impact of the hacking at Jaguar Land Rover. Well, first of all, Jaguar Land Rover is not a significant customer among our customer list. There's been a small impact, a direct impact for some of our Euro plants and an indirect impact through what we supply to some Tier 1s such as WALLNER, but nothing relevant. What was the other question, sorry?

The contribution of Techniplas in the third quarter.

Well, I think it's in the presentation. When we talk about growth, there's part of the growth this quarter, which is -- well, the 9 months given in the presentation is approximately 0.6%, which in round numbers is about EUR 15 million.

And another couple of questions on the third quarter. Can we give some details on the currency impact by region and the impact of energy in India in the third quarter, the Maharashtra issue?

Yes, this was mentioned in the results call. It was mentioned in the results call for CIE India the other day because qualitatively, it was important to highlight it. It hasn't been relevant enough for CIE India to give a quantified number. So it's even less so for CIE globally where the figure isn't significant. So we don't think it's going to be a relevant impact. And regarding the currency, those of you that were connected at the beginning, I think, heard us talking about it. There has been practically a negative impact on all currencies, a double-digit impact in Brazil, an important impact in India and somewhat less significant impacts in China and NAFTA. But yes, we've seen that the impact of the exchange rate at 9 months means almost EUR 100 million in sales, EUR 18 million in EBITDA. Yes. And in fact, it's been important.

Moving on to the market, the market in the fourth quarter. What are our estimates for the fourth quarter and also for next year, estimates in general?

This is as simple as giving the IHS figures. I believe you all have them, and I don't think they add very much. But I would like to make a reflection here about this subject beyond the concrete volume. And if you like, I can talk about the concrete volume that IHS says, and they say that there've been a global quarter of 22 million vehicles, 23 million in the second, and they're talking about 23.5 million for the fourth quarter with an increase between 22.5 million and 23.5 million in the third and fourth quarter, 1 million vehicles and practically, this can be attributed to China that goes from 8 million in the third quarter to 9 million in the following quarter. It's true that Europe also goes up a little bit, offset by the fact that North America goes down. So this is simplified by saying that in the last quarter, there's going to be 1 million more cars produced in China. But beyond that -- and volumes for next year, sorry, to give the whole answer. Volumes for next year, according to IHS, this year, we're going to finish at 91.5 million vehicles and next year at 91 million. And then I move on to what I think is important, the reflection. I don't really know how valid those figures are. Why do I say that? And I'm talking about real figures. In the second quarter of 2024, just over a year ago, we said that in 2025, there were going to be 92 million vehicles produced in December '24, the figure had been dropped by 3 million. It was said that 89 million were going to be produced that year. At Easter, the forecast for this year had dropped below 88 million. In summer, we were caught at 90 million. And now we're talking about a market forecast of 91.5 million for this year and 91 million for next year. What am I trying to say with this? Well, that the world has changed. 10 years ago, when we spoke about estimates, there was a lot less volatility and much fewer impact variables. And I think that estimates were more reliable. Right now, I think that the degree of uncertainty is tremendous, and that means that the volatility of any forecast made by IHS or any other analyst is somewhat more limited in value. So these are the figures, a stronger last quarter, especially because of China. And next year, it could be practically flat globally.

And now also talking about the future, but more related to CIE, there are a couple of questions. One regarding the outperformance we've recovered in the third quarter. How sustainable is it in the future through new contracts or whatever, whether it's sustainable? And how we expect to reach a margin according to the guidance in Q4 that is worse as a season?

Well, things have to go very badly in the fourth quarter, not to reach the 19% in our guidance, to be diverted from that figure of 19%, something terrible would have to happen that we don't currently foresee. And the outperformance, how sustainable is it after this Q3? Well, it's true. In the first and second quarters, things were a bit weaker, flat and trend to a slight underperformance. And the third quarter has been very strong in outperformance. What does this say? Well, what we always tell you, and this reinforces it, you can't look at a single quarter or just 2 quarters or 3 quarters. You have to look more long term. When we gave the guidance for outperformance for this strategic plan, it covered 5 years. And I hope that nobody expected the 5 years to be mathematically the same and much less 5x4, 20 quarters that are mathematically the same. The first 2 years, '21 and '22, we've had a stronger outperformance. We've had weaker years in outperformance. But we have to look at longer time periods. I think that if we analyze longer time periods and not just a quarter, what it tells us is that on a structural basis, CIE is growing more than the market in general in all geographies. I'll leave China aside. And I think that this can continue to happen, not because we have a contract more or less or because I'm thinking about a certain figure or another figure, but because we're the kind of supplier that customers need. We are global with all the technologies to be flexible and supply all kinds of vehicles with a presence, as I said, in the main markets with the main technologies and with a solid balance sheet that enables us to run through the filter that many companies use to decide who has the capacity to invest. I think that, that gives us a great deal of strength. And conceptually, beyond a certain figure, I think that CIE is doing a better structural job than the market.

A very specific question about steel in Europe and the possible impact of the possible measure to reduce quotas or increase tariffs on imports.

Well, I don't know much more than you do and what's been published. Brussels, the other day proposed reducing steel imports by half, tariff-free imports that the European Union allows and double the tariff from 25% to 50%. Well, the goal is very clear to fight against surplus capacity in the sector and especially to fight against the subsidized Chinese industry. As far as I know, this still has to be approved by the Euro chamber and the member states. It would come into effect, if I'm not mistaken, in June '26, and we'll see what happens then. There's not much else I can add, except that it's another one of those protection measures from the European Union against the different manufacturing conditions and the subsidized manufacturing conditions in Chinese industry, in this case, with steel.

A question from Robert on hybridization. There are some European players that are talking about a greater demand of electric or hybrid vehicles, and this will give Europe higher content in vehicles. How would this higher demand affect CIE?

Robert, always not now or 5 years ago, when we started to talk to the electric car manufacturers, and I'm talking about a decade ago practically, I think that everybody conceptually and in an intuitive way felt that moving from the combustion engine to the electric car would be easier by using a bridge, hybridization. European legislation has tried to force that bridge to be very short. But the end consumer, I think, is saying that, that bridge needs to be longer than the European legislation provides. So great, everything that means a gradual transition. For industry in general, I think it's helpful and also for us within that industry. So I think that reality comes from the end of consumer instead of trying to force through legislation.

And now regarding the possible impact of Nexperia, the chip issue. And are we facing a new chip crisis?

Well, that's a good question. Let's hope not because our hair stands on end when we remember the 11 million vehicles that weren't manufactured in 2021 and almost 4 million vehicles that weren't manufactured around the world in 2022 because of the chips. But it does seem that there might be some minor tensions. I'll leave it at that and not talk about crisis. I assume everybody knows the story. The Dutch company, Nexperia, with Chinese capital has been intervened by the Dutch government at the end of September, concerns over national security. And as a response to that, China controls the Nexperia plants in their territory. So there isn't a natural flow in the supply chain to the European plants of Nexperia. So there could be a certain impact in the supply from Nexperia for those automotive chips. If I understand it, the Nexperia chips are very basic. They're not the most sophisticated, but because they're basic, they're absolutely indispensable. And we've been hearing about some customers like BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Stellantis. We even heard it from Bosch saying that they have stock. They have a certain amount of inventory, but they're talking about a few weeks. And a number of emergency groups have been set up to look for solutions and evaluate the damage. Could production be affected in November? Well, let's hope not. Let's hope not. I think that they're forcing the Netherlands to negotiate with Putin to see how the controls can be adjusted, but this is just another part of these tense geopolitics. I'll answer quickly. I hope it won't be a new crisis, but there may be some slight tension.

We're now asked about the future of the CapEx in view of the CapEx in the third quarter. What can we expect in the future in terms of CapEx? And related to this, what is the ramp-up for the Mexican greenfield?

Well. Let's take it bit by bit. The Mexican greenfield and CapEx, starting with the Mexican greenfield. The Mexican greenfield is a project. I think we told you about it. It's been EUR 80-some million, about $100 million in round numbers, almost 70%, more than 2/3 of the investment was made in 2024, the rest in the first part of 2025. A plant that is expected to reach a volume of $200 million, but that won't be until 2029. And then gradually, this year, it has started to operate. And until 2029, sales will gradually be added on with a couple of more significant jumps in '26 and then in '28. Regarding CapEx, well, because of this project, we saw a year 2021, '22, '23 with around 5% over sales or 5-point something. And we saw a 2024 that went up to as much as 6% CapEx over sales because of -- or basically because of the deviation in this plant. Without that plant, we would have been talking about 2024 also around 5%. And 2025 where we have that figure of 4.8%. And without this Mexican plant, it would be closer to 4%. So what am I saying with this? The question was what CapEx we can expect in the future? Well, now since there are no other projects of this magnitude planned in the short term, in principle and on a normalized basis, we ought to be around 4-point-something, 5% that we saw before this nonrecurrent period with a somewhat higher CapEx. I'm not going to go into details on the figures because this comes under the umbrella of the future guidance beyond the strategic plan. In this strategic plan, we're going to meet with that approximately 5% in CapEx over sales that we planned.

Talking about the strategic plan, there's a question. Do you know whether a strategic plan is going to be presented soon? And could an extraordinary dividend be considered if there's no M&A?

Well, I'll give the same answer that Jesus Maria gave when he was asked this question in June, I think, in the results for the second quarter. And that is that we still haven't finished the current strategic plan. So we can't set dates to present the future plan. In February, we'll all come back here to talk about it, I hope. And there, we'll close a 5-year period that has been complicated and it's also been very ambitious. And from there on, we'll see what the future guidance is. But I'm not going to go into the strategic plan or dates for his presentations. I'll defer this for when we discuss it in the fourth quarter. And the other question, whether there could be a special dividend if there's an absence of M&As. Jesus Maria also said something along those lines. The payout to the shareholders is, without a doubt, one of the most important capital allocations if there's no significant M&A with the extremely low debt and with the very high cash generation, it wouldn't be the first time or the second in the history of CIE that there are extraordinary payouts.

Connected to this, a question has come in regarding what we plan to do with the shares bought in the self-takeover bid.

Well, the obligation is, and this has been published, these are shares that we cannot use to reduce capital. These are shares that should naturally be put on the market and try to atomize them as much as possible because the only goal was to create liquidity. And completely changing the subject, we're asked about another possible disruption, the possible impact of the fire at Novelis in the United States. Novelis in the United States, if I'm not mistaken, this is outside the third quarter as such because this was at the beginning of October. But it's true that it's happened during the last few days. There was a fire at a very important company that supplies aluminum. Have we had a direct impact? We don't have aluminum operations over there, but it's true that it could have an indirect impact through our customers. I think that there were customers from the beginning like Toyota or Hyundai that said that there wasn't a major effect. Stellantis spoke about temporarily shutting down one plant. I think that the most affected was Ford. They were affected because one of their best-selling models, the 150 pickup, which is very aluminum intensive was penalized. And in fact, they talked about an outage of approximately 3 weeks in October of a couple of their plants in the U.S., their plants in Michigan. Perhaps we'll suffer a small indirect impact through this, we don't expect it to be significant. If you like, we can discuss it at the fourth quarter.

There's a question regarding that there has been significant progress in CIE India when it comes to getting into new segments in the end market and in the customer diversification.

I suppose that's a way of looking at it. I would say that it's been tremendously successful. First of all, we can't get into more segments because we're already in all of them. And secondly, commercial diversification, we continue to work on it every day. And I'd remind you, when we bought these plants, just over 10 years ago, they had 2 main customers that had all the sales, Tata and Mahindra. And nowadays, we work significantly for the #1 in the market, Maruti Suzuki. We work for the #2, Hyundai Kia in the market. We've included new segments and have practically covered all segments. So I suppose it's a matter of perception. If you ask me, I think that the success has been enormous.

Could you give us an update on tariffs, especially for 2026 with the potential review of the USMCA?

Tariffs. Well, the news from the last few days, I'm not going to say they're positive because talking about tariffs is implicitly negative. But I do think there's been a slight de-escalation because we've had the agreement between the U.S. and Europe. It may be good or not. Some people believe 15% is higher. But at least we have a scenario that companies can work with and make decisions. Apart from that de-escalation in recent days, we've seen how the trucks produced in Mexico and Canada and which had tariffs are now like passenger vehicles, and they don't have that tariff if they're USMCA compliant, obviously. We've also heard the U.S. Secretary talk about potential tariff relief for aluminum and steel imported into the United States. The trade department is saying that it will evaluate almost on an individual basis, that's what we've understood, the request from each company, but they will consider whether it comes from Mexico or Canada and is USMCA compliant or whether it has been melted in Mexico or Canada or comes from other markets. And they put a lot of emphasis on the fact that they're going to consider whether there's a commitment from the company, a commitment that can be proven that they're going to set up capacity in the U.S. and will pass part of their aluminum and steel production to those plants. So these are some things we can think of in a situation, which I'm not going to say is getting more stable because with Mr. Trump, we don't know if that's how things are going to stay or whether there will be more news tomorrow. But we do see signs of a de-escalation, and it seems that it's coming to a certain stability, but with a lot of quotation marks.

How do we see India as an export hub for the Asia Pacific market?

For the Asia Pacific market as an export hub for that region, let's say. Well, there's a lot of important competition in that region from countries that are tremendously competitive like Thailand, Vietnam, the ASEAN area. If Indian plans to export, I don't think they're thinking of exporting to Thailand, Vietnam or that area. We're thinking about a very competitive India trying to export to markets where production would be more expensive. If I'm not mistaken, India exports almost 4 million bikes, 700,000 or 800,000 passenger vehicles and local production expectations in India. And we'll see what happens with the tariffs. But India is implicitly attempting to be a production and export hub for the world.

How is CIE coping with the loss in market share of the Western manufacturers versus the Chinese OEMs?

In China?

No, in general. They don't ask about a specific market, the general loss of quota.

I don't think it makes sense to talk about China because we all know what the situation said. And I've said that the Chinese quota in China is being reinforced. They're already at 66% and Western companies have lost 25% of the share. So knowing that our main customers are Western companies is not good news. But for the rest of the world, I think it's too early. We're still talking about shares in the rest of the world. Well, I'm not trying to say that only 5% of the European market is covered by Chinese cars. But there's very little we can do when there's a CKD import model and with the local content is tremendously small. So that's not good news in the short term. It's true that we all believe that this is going to change in the medium term. And when that changes, we hope that there will be a supply chain from Chinese manufacturers to the rest of the world that will be normalized like American companies in the world, European companies in the world, Japanese companies in the world and Korean companies in the world, where there's a balance between the original suppliers and local suppliers. Why not believe that this is also going to happen with the Chinese?

And an update on M&A, where are we? And also about the rationale of looking at Thailand because of the 2-wheelers.

Where are we in M&A? Very active, working very hard. Nothing new as to what we're looking at. You know that because we've always said it. Strategically, it makes much more sense to concentrate on all our efforts on growing markets, not on mature markets. And by mature markets, I mean basically Europe and United States. And by growing markets, I mean more Mexico, Brazil, like the case of Techniplas, India. And you were talking about Thailand as an example, for a new market. I think that's fine. Any country, Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand are interesting countries, countries where analyzing ASEAN produces more than 4 million vehicles, they call it the second Asian Detroit or the Asian Detroit because it produces a lot of pickups. It's the second part of the world with the highest pickup production. And as we've always done, when we were only Europe, we went out to America. And when we were only Europe and America, we went out to Asia. In the 25-year history of CIE, we've always had an eye on markets where volumes start to become of interest and where it would make sense to go. And I think that ASEAN is a part of the world where especially in the short term, there are certain question marks. But I think in the medium and long term, it's a market that makes sense. And what are we doing? We're working on it.

We don't have any more questions.

Well, exactly 1 hour. Thank you all very much. And again, we regret the somewhat chaotic beginning, and I hope that we didn't say anything awful. Thank you all very much for your attention, and we're at your disposal if you have any other questions. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]