Heineken N.V. ($HEIA)

Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Mitch Collett from Deutsche Bank's Consumer Staples Research team. And I'm delighted to be joined on stage by Harold van den Broek, CFO of Heineken. Harold, you have been CFO now for roughly 5 years. It's been an eventful period for the company. But when you look back at those 5 years, what do you see as the key achievements, what do you hope to achieve in the years to come?

And if I may, can you perhaps provide a quick update on the situation with the change of CEO.

So first, let me reflect back indeed over the past 5 years, as you say, it has been a very eventful period. We've seen a lot of turbulence, not only in Heineken but also in the world. And I do believe that 1 of the things that we're proud of is how we've navigated this volatility. It's also 1 of the beauties of our footprint. We really have global scale and therefore, we can balance things out when stuff happens in 1 particular region, like, for example, the big pricing in Europe that we had to take because of the Russia, Ukraine war we then saw the Africa resilience counterbalancing that and also the Americas at that moment in time. But speaking for me personally, it has been also a very rewarding period because 1 of the questions that we had from investors, but also internally, is look Heineken was known to be a growth company. I'm sure we're going to talk about that more. But how do we capture the value from the growth? And what we said we need to bring cost and productivity much more to the forefront of the Heineken culture, and I asked at that moment, I'm also for some patience to bring capital returns in. Now if you look over the past 5 years, we had a fantastic progress on our cost and productivity agenda that really helped us navigate this volatility, but also to keep on investing in the long term of the business. And secondly, we also now see the first benefits of capital productivity, cash returns coming in and we've changed the culture accordingly. Now I think that's a nice link to the CEO transition as well. We put a statement out there last week, where the Supervisory Board says we're well on track the new appointment is imminent, but too early to say now. That was an indication that the Supervisory Board, a, takes this extremely seriously also follows due protocol. And I think we're nearing the end state of the CEO search, but we can only announce when we can announce and everything is done and completed. Meanwhile, the executive team knows what to do. We have a strategy. We're focused on execution. And basically, we are focused on delivering the goods for this year.

Okay. Understood. I guess we're 2 months into the second quarter. It's still quite a complicated uncertain operating environment. At a global level, is there anything really to call out in terms of the health of the consumer, the competitive environment, the World Cup, the weather anything else that might affect your performance?

Yes. Well, that's all is there, Mitch. But maybe a good way to think about it, let's do a bit of a tour around the world is how we see it. So first, Europe is a cautious consumer environment, but we see that the category is stabilizing. And therefore, people like to go out, but there is a very, very much price conscious consumer that we have to factor in. If you go to Africa a little bit south, very, very happy with the agility that we see that in these markets. the resilience is very good. We see pockets of growth like Ethiopia, South Africa is working for us. Nigeria in terms of share is doing very well and also Asia, I think, is the big 1 for us in terms of positive consumer sentiment healthy macroeconomic conditions despite the Middle East crisis and our businesses are doing very well. At the start of the year, I was the outlier who basically was a bit more cautious on the Americas. And I actually pointed we've learned a lesson the hard way mage to really look at macroeconomic fundamentals. So we saw high interest rates, GDPs coming down we are, at this moment in time, a little bit more cautious on the Americas. And we see also the beer category slightly contracting as a result of that. Now this is before the World Cup you said. And look, we may hope for a beautiful summer weather in Europe this time around, but we are focusing more on the fundamentals. So I'm hoping I'm proving wrong. But for me, the Americas is the 1 where I say, look, let's be a bit cautious.

Okay. I'm going to put you on the spot here, but who do you want to win the World Cup from a Heineken perspective.

Mexico, Brazil, please.

Okay. Understood. And you've I would imagine maybe different from a personal perspective, but you've guided to 2% to 6% organic EBIT payer growth this year. I think you've just given a reason why it's maybe slightly below the range we would normally expect from the Heineken model. But what are the sort of key puts and takes as we think about the balance of the year that would get you towards the top end or the bottom end of that range?

Yes. Look, I mentioned this before. We started to move away from, let's call it, just doing the mathematics around our 2% to 6% range. We know that a good summer helps. We know that the reason a rainy summer doesn't help. But that's really not, let's call it, how we plan and the moment within our guidance ranges. We really have multiple scenarios that we're working through. So and the biggest known at this moment in time is how long the street of moves will be closed and what are the ripple effects for the markets, not only from a coverage this time of year let's call it, the pricing impact we can absorb, but it's much more the consumer sentiment that is much more difficult to assess and the impact that it will have. So we're really working market by market with different scenarios, and that's the 2% to 6% range. And at the moment, as we just confirmed in our quarter 1 trading update, we're basically confirming that guidance range.

Okay. And I guess you didn't know about the you couldn't have known about the situation in the Middle East when you gave 2 to 6. I appreciate you're pretty well covered in terms of hedging for this year. But there are some costs that can't be hedged.

That's true.

And then, I guess, if things stay as they are, would you expect there to be a need for price increases next year. And bearing in mind, you've been through a period of elevated inflation fairly recently. How do you think about the health of the consumer to take those price increases necessary?

Yes, it's a very good question. So first, let me pay a compliment to our organization. because linked to the previous answer to the question, we really are starting to think about what are the macroeconomic indicators that we see? What are the different scenarios that we want to see play out and as a consequence, although we didn't know that the Middle East crisis was going to happen, we had scenarios prepared and we were very much on the front foot in terms of our productivity agenda to deal with that ambiguity. So I just want to pay a compliment because part of the offset of cost 2026 is because we were already leaning in to drive the cost out of the system in a much more aggressive way than we would otherwise have done. And that keeps it possible to not price, not an keep on investing in our business while still delivering within that guidance range, as you said. Now looking ahead, this is a very different reality than we had in '22, '23 when there was a sudden energy crisis. It was all focused on Europe. And within the space of weeks, we saw a tenfold increase in the price of gas at that moment in time. We are now seeing still a very significant impact, but it's phased over time and it's more of a global energy issue that we're currently facing. And that gives us time to prepare it gives us time to prepare with the right portfolio, different factorized architecture, different market-by-market realities. So in that sense, it's not a repeat of 2022, '23 that we see. We really are starting to look at incremental measures, revenue margin growth opportunities as we call them. to cover the pricing and inflationary impact. Having said that, all other things being equal with aluminum, diesel and LNG now at elevated pricing levels we do forecast some moderate inflation going into 2027.

Okay. makes sense. We'll come back to the sort of bigger picture longer term in a minute, but you mentioned Americas is an area where maybe there's a few market challenges. Maybe just some perspectives on what's driving that in Mexico, first of all. I think you've been gaining share in the on-trade. So what's causing the market weakness? And I guess, what can you do to execute your way through that?

Yes. So first, again, I said it before, but let me be short and repeat the reality that we're facing in Mexico and will come and talk about Brazil, I'm sure, is a slightly subdued macroeconomic environment. GDP is lower. Interest rates are elevated given the pending trade agreements, renegotiation, foreign direct investments is a little bit lower than what we expected. And this is not good for the beer category as we see it. We were a bit surprised with our own results and competitive results in quarter 1. But we see in April that, that is becoming a little bit more equal. So we have the same read of the market reality at this moment in time, which is the beer market is in slight decline. Now the trigger effect is we have very responsible competition so all of us are really trying to bring growth back into the category, which means that we're investing in affordability. We're investing in the channel shifts. We're investing in our brands at the same time, we also need to acknowledge that at the same period last year, we had fantastic growth in the first half year in market share but didn't see the volume uplift. So we had to correct for pricing in the second half of the year. and we're now working through that. That takes a bit longer than what we expected. So we're not happy about that, but we need to call it what it is. So probably, it will take until the second half of the year for our business in Mexico to start basically balancing out that market share progression that we expect and also want to see.

Okay. And you correctly predicted that we'd go to Brazil next. So Brazil, again, it it's been a very strong market for you. longer term, 2025 was a bit tougher. I think Q1 was a little bit soft, maybe even got slightly softer as you went through the quarter. I guess what's driving that in Brazil? It sounds like there are some similarities. And you're still doing well, I think, in premium. So how do you indeed keep that happening in a maybe tougher context?

Yes. So again, very important macro category is slightly in decline, but within that category decline, it's important to see that the category continues to premiumize. So mainstream and premium are actually driving growth. Economy is going down in terms of the segments in the beer category. And this is good because we are actually well positioned, have driven that conversion into premium and into mainstream and continue to do so. What you also need to see is a little bit longer time. We last year, in the first half of the year, we gained about 150 basis points of market share. We're now giving some of that back on a 2-year stack, still stronger than where we were 3 years, 4 years, 5 years, we are very confident in the business model that we're operating in Brazil. and believe that the underlying category dynamics are actually still conducive to future growth. Last point to make. We always try to find the balance between volume less growth and value-led growth. And we really felt that in the second half of the year and in the first half of this year, we really had an opportunity to become a little bit more aggressive in price mix, and that's what you see coming through because in the first half of last year, we were too focused on volume and the market share gains. So we're always trying to find that balance over the longer term.

And that balance between price/mix and volume in mind, still specifically in Brazil, you opened a new brewery in [indiscernible], sorry, in the end of Q3 2025 I think it's 5 million hectoliters in [indiscernible]. So how do you how long will it take you to fill that? And I guess what's the operational benefit of that new capacity?

Yes. So it's good to know. Brazil is a big country. And there are state-by-state incentive structures that make it worthwhile to sometimes look at your infrastructure and really see where consumer demand is and where the right production facility is so Passos brewery was important for us because it can produce the Heineken brand, and it is in a region where there is a super high demand for Heineken volume. So in that sense, the recalibration across our network was an important factor. . As well as the state incentives that we were able to have. So filling the brewery is not going to be a problem, but it is going to be some level of redistribution across the other breweries, and we're very happy with the economic benefits that we have helped by state support.

Okay. Let's shift entirely and go to Vietnam which looks like it's back to its best. And I think you've had very good growth across all the various price points. So what have you done to kind of drive Vietnam in back into growth after a couple of more challenging years.

Yes. So first of all, a big compliments to the team, but let's start with what is really making us very pleased and confident in the long-term success of Vietnam not our doing, but we are grateful beneficiary of government stability. There has been a lot of government changes in Vietnam. There is no government stability and a very clear economic policy. And the economic policy is about how do we make Vietnam, a more highly added value economy, still relying on exports, but with more value accretion in that export construct. The GDP growth projected in the next couple of years is 6% to 7%. Urbanization rates are predicted to go up from 36%, 37% to 50% on to really build that infrastructure of industry that I was just talking about. And all of these dimensions are good for beer consumption urbanization, population and income growth are all conducive to the category. So we believe that Vietnam is a really good market to be in. Secondly, what we've done, we've seen a number of shifts from premium to mainstream from entree to off-trade and the team locally has really done the proper homework, not just the technical sales adjustment, but proper homework about how we design the right portfolio to win. And we see the benefits of that coming through. Heineken is fantastic. It's really now over half of our premium volume, and we've started to create a mainstream brand with [indiscernible] including really doubling down on the off-trade volume to capture, let's call it, in-home or near home consumption, which has been a trend shift that we've seen. As a result of that, market shares are back to [indiscernible] so very pleased with our Vietnam performance.

Okay. And then China, I know, is an associate business, but I think it's already a top 3 profit contributor.

Absolutely a net profit level for sure.

And it's been in strong growth. So I guess, how do you feel about the partnership there? How do you think about the runway for growth? Can you continue to to gain share in a market that's been flat to declining.

Yes. So let's start at that end part of the question. We are quite confident that growth will continue also in the earlier stages of this year, we saw the Heineken brand continues to grow in the high 20s. Amstel is now a very important second brand, but it's only up north growing 60%, 70% and probably doubling volume in the first year of launch, already reaching almost close to 1 million hectoliter. And the secret of this success is mutual dependency. We have a very good governance framework, a very good long-term joint business plan with clear allocation of roles where Heineken creates the demand and does the marketing and CRB creates the distribution and thus the execution. . We're only at 30% of the addressable outlets. So there is plenty of runway to grow. And this means we have 1 very big brand in Heineken, still growing 20s and an emerging brand in Ansell, and we've got more brands in the portfolio. So we believe that there is a mutually dependent success model at work here. that will pay dividends for a year to come, literally and figuratively.

And staying in Asia, Cambodia has been a more challenging market. And I think you've seen a bit of competition from local players. I mean is that competitive intensity still there? What can you do to to outcompete the smaller players?

Yes. So unfortunate, maybe for the audience, good to know. So Cambodia is an important market for us, but we have lost significant volume. So the base is getting smaller, not because we want to, because that's the factual reality. And the reason is that there is a 7x overcapacity in that market, maybe good for the audience to know -- it's very difficult to compete if there is such a high level of overcapacity. And what we have been working with the government somewhat successfully now is that we said we need to normalize the category because overcapacity and rampant promotions, the so-called ring pool that if you win, you can get a free beer in exchange, and that just continues. So there's not a limit on it. Yes, in my words, made it more of a gambling industry than an enjoyment and responsible consumption industry, and we have that discussion with the government. The good news is the government is now banning ring pool promotions to try to take that incentive away effective in October, November. We need to see that coming to life, but that will be a first step towards restoration of, let's call it, healthy competition, and that's what we're looking for.

Okay. And then in India, it's still 1 of the markets with the greatest potential growth opportunities, very low per capita consumption and already a big market for you. But I think you made some changes to your sales model in India, what were the changes?

So to phrase this. So when we took majority control of United's breweries, we did see some old-fashioned practices in these markets. And when I went there is, look, we are brewing beer for the consumer, not for excise. And it is very, very important to really start behaving like that. So what we have changed is, first of all, state-by-state engagement about what is the beer category. Why is it beneficial not only for the state because of its excise, but also for the consumers because it brings joy through togetherness together, but in a much more responsible way than homegrown liquids we started to engage also with the states about outlet execution because a quality outlet brings people together to responsibly joy a beer is a very, very important factor for future growth. And you do start to see that younger consumers who are leaving home who are going to work actually are happy to meet up with friends and enjoy a beer. So the stigma is also getting less state by state, we see more progressive thinking in some of the states, which serves as an example for others. And all of that together with, I have to say, international beer competitors who are playing a similar game and therefore, industry associations are starting to work to create sustainable growth going forward in a responsible manner is starting to pave the road forward. As a consequence, for example, the first couple of months this year, we see category growth of 10%, which is extremely encouraging.

And I guess before we leave it Asia, Collectively, these are some markets that probably have a greater energy dependency. And by the sounds of what you said earlier in terms of market conditions, you're not really seeing that impacting the consumer. But I guess how would you prepare for that to happen? And how would you think about any sort of supply and cost challenges coming from the situation in the Middle East?

Yes. So 2 parts to the answer. I think our teams are fully on this to create business continuity plans. And that can range from purchasing diesel just in case the generators need to run for a period longer to really start to look at alternative sourcing models if we have supplier dependency, for example. So contingency plans in terms of diesel or energy scarcity are definitely in place. . Now of course, if the governments do not have access to diesel and they need to start making some priority choices going to keep a hospital open or a beer company open, there are legitimate choices to be made, and we cannot prepare for that.

Moving to a totally different continent because I know we've got a lot of the world to cover it. Europe had a few challenges last year with the shelf shelf allocations and promotional slots. I mean you mentioned it already, but you're fully back in this year. I guess that gives you some natural volume growth. I appreciate in Q1 and Q2, it's difficult because of the timing of Easter and the World Cup. But I guess, how do you feel about the shelf space you've regained and would you expect to deliver volume growth in Europe this year?

Very important. The answer is yes. On the first part of the question, and that is we call that just in time. But we are confident in the regaining of the position that we had. We had very tough retail negotiations. These things happen. We we mutually agreed on a way forward, and it's important to say that we are seeing quality execution in the outlets coming back. So we're not buying our volume to recover, let's call it, our position. this is really done with the right shelf resets and the right quality of execution. Now our market share is also accelerating. So we're quite happy with our relative performance in the European market. The category in itself is not yet back to growth. And that is perhaps the link to the second one. I'm hesitant to make projections. A good summer, a great World Cup obviously help but let's first control the controllables, and that is the perfect execution, gain share and then consumers will have to do the rest.

Okay in Africa, Nigeria has been a market where you've had, I guess, your fair share of ups and downs. But like a lot of the markets we've talked about today, it's actually doing pretty well now, but the sounds of it. I guess, how are you sort of managing that business longer term to avoid the volatility that we've seen in the past?

On the whole Africa continent. .

Well, I meant Nigeria specifically, but if you'd rather. .

No. So for me, it's a good example of what we have done well so again, in Nigeria, 200 million population. So this is a market which has a lot of potential. We had 14 million hectoliter of installed capacity so for us, this was an extremely important market to grow and protect because of its potential that it holds what we have done in 2 years ago when the whole currency and it devalued by 80%, so 80, many companies left Nigeria because they saw no future. in that market, we decided to double down and basically refinance that organization and at the same time, really make sure that our product portfolio was healthy. Right gross margins, right price points, right brands to really create a price tiering for wealthier and less wealthy consumers and take a lot of cost out. We are now doing that. The numbers are public, but we are debt free. We're back to healthy operating profit margins. Currency is now stable. And as a result of that, it takes a bit of time for consumer incomes to rise because the inflation is coming down. but household incomes have not yet recovered. But I can't wait for the day until 200 million Nigerian so of drinking beer more every month. that will be a very good thing to witness.

Okay. And then South Africa is post the acquisition of Distell is very much a multi-beverage model, I guess, why is that the right model for South Africa? And I know you do do cider and RTDs in other markets, but I guess how do you think about the opportunity to do multi-beverage in other places?

Two parts. First of all, the Heineken beverages as we call it, was really coming together of a Distell portfolio and the Heineken portfolio, and that was beyond beer, the cider, grade-based drinks, the wines and the Heineken portfolio, which is beer-centric only. And we saw the need to combine that in order to have much more gravitas in a highly concentrated market. So for us, this was an opportunity to combine forces, but also broaden the category offering so that we can serve more consumers more often. That was the idea. It took us some time both for the cultural integration, but also to make sure that we have the right conversations with the customers so that they can see that we are strategically vested in South Africa, and we are a relial partner for the future, and this is working at this moment in time, very much so. So we're happy with the progress that we've made in South Africa, but we're not there where we want to be. There are years ahead of us to make that come to life. Now what is important is that we are learning this multi-beverage play. And also South Africa, for example, in adjacent markets, but we're taking Bernini, we're taking part of the Distell portfolio to Nigeria. Ethiopia and we start to see that it resonates with consumers. So we're actually learning at scale about what it means to be, let's call it, multi-segment player. And this is also how we look at the future. So whilst we say we're a proud beer company. We want really beer to be centric. It is very important to acknowledge that there are opportunities outside and Fico is 1 of those examples as well. where we are very happily expanding the portfolio. And outside of the U.S. we're actually the biggest, let's call it, outside of a beer company in the planet with RTDs cider. So it's not that this is foreign [indiscernible] for us.

Okay. So I said we've moved to something a bit longer term you unveiled have a green 2030 back at the Investor Day last year in Civil. And the ambition there is mid-single-digit revenue growth profit ahead of revenue, I think EPS ahead of revenue so how is what are the building blocks to get you there? And I know you talked about how you've done a good job on cost with the original Evergreen. But what are the key differences between Evergreen 2023.

Well, maybe start there. The key difference for Evergreen '25 and Evergreen 2030 is that we really bring focus and differentiation into the strategy. So important to know, we believe that there is growth in beer globally. It's driven by the basics of population growth, income growth and urbanization as we also talked in Vietnam. So we believe in the case for beer. What we also believe in, and we've seen that in the last 5 years also is that our advantaged footprint because we are more present in Africa and in Asia is actually a help. So part of that mid-single-digit growth is coming from growth in beer, advantaged footprint, and then we need to put pricing and premiumization and mix management on top to get to that mid-single-digit growth. That can happen in beer. It can happen in beyond beer as we come. So that's a very important construct as we see it. The focus and differentiation we bring in is we've also thought priority growth markets, 18 are catering for 90% of the future growth. So we are really focusing our resources on the priority growth markets. Secondly, we believe that global brands and local brands both have a relevant role to play. So out of a portfolio of 300 brands, 5 global brands and 25 regional power brands will again do 90% of the future growth, and that's where the resources will be so that's how we believe we can outcompete in a growing category with the right price mix and premiumization to get to that mid-single-digit growth. Good productivity and very importantly, the capital that we are now adding to our muscle. So cash flow generation, cash conversion that allows us to value accretive acquisitions or share buybacks, basically bring us that EPS leverage, operating profit and EPS leverage that you were referring to. So that's the model. We're really focusing on growth but capital and cost productivity basically create the leverage further down the P&L.

Okay. And then you talked about costs there and you talked about cost earlier. You've also announced what must have been a very difficult decision, the reduction of 5,000 to 6,000 roles. Where are you in the process of that rationalization and I guess, how do you sort of maintain your commercial effectiveness when you're taking out head count of that scope?

That's a good question. And we put it intentionally in our full year outlook in 2020 in the full year results 2025 because we wanted to give an internal signal. And the internal signal was the change will accelerate. We will not pause also not with the CEO transition. So we're actually making, I will disclose the numbers at the half year results, but we're actually making very good progress against that 5,000 to 6,000 people head count reduction. And surprisingly, the appetite from the market is there. because it's not just a squeeze the lemon. It's a systematic different way of working that we're putting in there. And I'll give you 2 examples. We're moving to Heineken Business Services. We're moving to supply networks. And that basically means we get more productivity out of the same infrastructure and we can therefore do more with less people. The second thing to your point about how do we think about this is the global commerce team under Brad's leadership is really to apply artificial intelligence now also on, let's call it, the commercial growth engine of our company. And that creates synergies in cost but also synergies in speed and effectiveness, and that's also why it is actually helpful for us to basically reallocate resources, but also become more productive as an organization.

I'm glad you mentioned AI because I know you've had you've been through a significant period of investment in your digital backbone. Are you now at a point where that investment can really start to pay off? And I guess how is AI integrated into the tools you're using with that?

Yes. No, great question. So first of all, we are balancing pace with risk in the rollout of the digital backbone. And for the people in the room who don't know what I'm talking about, it's basically a common infrastructure for Heineken that covers both the front end of our organization. So customer, but also, let's call it, consumer like marketing as well as the back end of the organization like the whole ERP that you usually have. And we call that our digital backbone because that's what it is. It is a backbone to our company. What is important is that we are, let's call it, learning at scale, but also taking risk into account. So we have about an implementation model where every year, we do about 8 to 12 markets. but we have 80 to cover. So this will take about 5 to 6 years to bring it in, but we're not waiting with new technology to be applied. So what I was just talking about it, this Freddie AI is very important because this is the engine for marketing to be much more sophisticated and leveraging AI -- and this is, I think, the more important part. So we are consistent in our investment in AI, but reaping the benefits where they are being seen. And in Freddie AI, named after the famous Freddy Heineken. We do 3 things in marketing with the help of digital. It's a knowledge database for every marketer across the world and every salesperson in the world where certain problem statements or brand or channels or customer activations can be asked in a safe environment. So it's a knowledge database that is very interactive, so people don't have to reinvent the wheel. Second, we call Freddie Connect from idea to live campaign at the moment, takes 3 to 6 months, how do we squeeze that into 3 days and optimize our agency model so that it's more productive, cheaper and faster. And last but not least, how do we do advanced marketing mix modeling. And that is now being rolled out by the end of this year to 10 markets extra, so 15 markets. So just to show that AI is very much alive in our company, and we don't have to wait for the digital backbone to give us the benefits that we see ahead of us.

Yes. And you mentioned the focus on cash delivery. I guess you stepped up your dividend payout ratio. You've done buybacks. But Heineken historically went through a long period of sort of buying markets and adding assets. I guess does the increase in shareholder remuneration mean that you're seeing less opportunities for acquisitive growth?

No, that's not how I would frame it, Mitch. And it's a good question that you asked there. Look, the reality is we are not living at this moment in a world that waits to be consolidated. The big industry consolidation has happened to a large extent, but there will still be opportunities out there. We will be an acquisitive company going forward. What is equally the case is that growth is a little bit more subdued at this moment in time and interest rates are higher. So our capital allocation priorities are all geared towards how do we protect organic growth we've built breweries now in most of our largest markets. So there is not a lot of that much more capital to be deployed. We like consistent dividend, and we know that our investor base also appreciates that. Capital discipline is important, but what you will have seen in the last 12 to 24 months, that still leaves us with an opportunity to do acquisitions like FICO, which, by the way, this year is 3% accretive to EPS. So it's a fantastic acquisition for long-term growth potential profitable to us and EP is accretive to us, and we can do share buybacks. So it's how you balance everything across volume, capital returns, dividend returns to drive attractive shareholder returns in aggregate, but at the same time, we want to be known as a growth company. And therefore, organic and inorganic growth will always be part of our considerations.

Okay. That's very clear. So very close to being out of time. But maybe just to kind of bring it all together, is there kind of 1 thing that you think the investment community may be misunderstands or doesn't get about Heineken and its investment proposition?

Yes. I think we are maybe 2 things. The first is we're really changing the nature of this company. both the cultural part, but also you heard me talk about the growth is the first priority of Heineken. And we have a platform across the world to deliver that. We're a proud beer company, but really want to look beyond that in selective markets to broaden out our consumer offering and productivity and cash flow management needs to be there to drive attractive shareholder returns. The culture is changing with that. So we're hoping to see the benefits that soon.

Okay. Great. Well, Harold, thank you very much for joining us.

Thank you.