Sivers Semiconductors AB (publ) (SIVE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to Sivers Semiconductor's Second Quarter Report 2022. My name is Anders Storm, and I'm the Group CEO of Sivers. I'm going to take you through the report today and give you some background to the report and other information. And in the end, we're going to go with a Q&A session. So if we look at the quarter itself, it was actually yes, more or less flat on SEK 27 million compared to last year. And as we've been stating now for quite some while, the first half is going to be a half that is challenged by components and lack of components to really start volume production to customers. However, we're seeing an improvement on that in the future. If we -- even if we look sort of at the first half here, we've been growing from January to June, 34%, which is actually a little bit better than we thought due to the components, but also adding some NRE sales on that. We also have completed the integration of MixComm in this quarter, which has been quite a lot of work, but also extremely important for our strategy in the future in the U.S. market. And I will come more into that. And of course, an extremely important third contract with the Fortune 100 in U.S. coming in at about SEK 6 million for new laser sources for a very exciting future area. Also, the Wireless team has signed up with Richardson RFPD, which is the sort of distribution agreement for the full world of selling 5G and SATCOM chipsets. This is something that is based on what MixComm have been doing, but even improved somewhat compared to the contract we had before by them. Then we also had a very fruitful IMS show in Denver where we had a lot of different demos, live demos on the place. We were using AirVines WaveTunnel technology to demonstrate our 60 gigahertz technology. We've been working together also with KREEMO from South Korea. And now in this space, we've actually entered into the most exciting part of what they're doing, the Antenna-on-Display, which will bring us into handsets and different devices in the future. And KREEMO being one of the companies who can provide this to the handset makers and are already talking to different handset makers. So it could be very exciting times for us going forward, what's going to happen there. Looking a bit more into detail. As I said, revenue just up 1%. EBITDA improved with SEK 1 million. And I think that is really, really good comparing to that we now integrated MixComm into this, and we can still keep the cost level. And I think that was sort of one of the bigger takeaways with the cost synergies for the company, and the research companies has not really understood how well we could integrate that without increasing the cost base in that sense and still keep EBITDA on a good level. EBIT, of course, down, but that's also mostly connected through the acquisition where we've done impairment losses of some of the products we earlier worked on with Ampleon, for example, that we had to write-off SEK 22 million due to that. And then we start the depreciation and amortization of the acquisition of MixComm, as I told you in the last quarter. So removing that SEK 34 million, we're actually very, very similar as last year as well, which I think is a strong indication that we have integrated MixComm in even pre-money sales from them in a way and can keep our cost structure impact, which I talked about in the press release about integration of MixComm, where we actually are saving up to SEK 10 million a year in the integration. If we look at the first half year then, we actually are growing with 34% even if we were a bit worried about the first half due to the component issues. We're seeing now a lot of companies confirming also that components are getting better. We've heard about Volvo, for example, recently saying that they fully stocked up on semiconductors again and so forth. So we're very hopeful for the second year, and that we can regain sort of aggressive growth for that part. If we're also looking then on EBITDA levels, improving almost by SEK 7 million last year, including the MixComm from April. And then we have the EBIT, and that's the same as for the second quarter here that we had the impairment loss as well as the amortization and write-offs of MixComm, which will sort of increase EBIT level. So I would say that looking at EBITDA or adjusted EBITDA, currently, is giving a more sort of apple-and-apple comparison to last year and going forward. If we look at the segment reporting, as I said before, I mean, this has been a quarter with challenges, and when it comes to sales, however, we're also seeing still sort of a great NRE development. We have actually increased the NRE sales compared to last year. And as you can see, sort of hardware is where the challenges are with components for our customers. So that's nothing strange. But looking at NRE, we've gone from SEK 13 million to SEK 19 million. As I mentioned last time, we have a much better portfolio in the future. And for the future, we also see NRE projects that we never ever earlier had in the pipeline. North America is still going up percentage-wise. It's sort of down a little bit because of the SATCOM customers actually buying already components also on sort of a prototyping level, that's why Europe is a bit up compared to the last quarter. So if we look at the significant events, I already mostly talked about the integration of MixComm, and we're going to go into that, the Fortune 100 and the RFPD, what we're doing in them and then the IMS show. So if we go into the integration. It is actually done now, and I'm very happy with the results. We now have Mike Noonen, who is sort of an icon when it comes to semiconductors in the U.S. And he is now running as interim MD for the Wireless business, but he's also put into place as the U.S. President sales for both Wireless and Photonics. And with this network in the U.S., which we've sort of built after and with the whole MixComm networking customers, we think this is going to give us leverage. And we're already seeing in the sort of a number of things we can send out to customers here and things in the future can happen due to this acquisition. As I mentioned, SEK 10 million a year in synergies. We had done the write-down of SEK 22 million of the sort of overlapping products, nothing strange about that. We talked about that since day 1 in October last year. So it shouldn't be a surprise for anyone that, that is the fact. And also, that was connected to the Tier-1 customer that MixComm had and designed with and that we actually lost out on. So we sort of back into that, and that was connected, of course, through the product we did with Ampleon, where Ampleon wasn't able to win that business, but we now won it via MixComm instead. We also have a good start with the customers in the U.S., and we see very positive effects of that. A partnership with MixComm is still being intact and retain GlobalFoundries, very important, RFPD and so forth. And we also added a very strong person with Todd into the -- from Kairos Ventures, but also a great addition to our network in the U.S. and on the West Coast, where Kairos Ventures is based in L.A. and working with a lot of technology companies. So to sum up a bit, what is it now that Sivers actually can sort of -- and we are addressing? So we are supporting the convergence of some of the sort of most important future and current megatrends going on sort of creating [ Web.3, ] the metaverse, extending more low-end computers, high-speed broadband or gigabit speeds or terabit speeds even, with Silicon Photonics, with Ayar Labs, autonomous driving, health monitoring and augmented reality and metaverse. So all of these things, we now have products, we have already customers, and we have prototypes in many, many of these areas, which is very, very exciting for the future. So just to sum up, what is Sivers now today than -- we are a company with 137 employees. We have offices in Sweden and Scotland and the U.S. We have a very strong experienced team, with 42 PhDs. We have a strong investor base with institutional investors as well as long investors and many of the investors has been with us for over 20 years. We have a strong portfolio of 43 different design wins. We have more than -- we have 3 confirmed sort of Fortune 100 customers within Photonics, and we have several other sort of most exciting Photonics companies -- Silicon Photonics companies as our customers, and we're now addressing everything within high frequencies from 5G to licensed, unlicensed, satellite communication. We can do different radars, as well as all the photonics, which the sensors and so forth, as well as data communication. So we are now lined up for a very exciting future, and we are seeing them from second half, that's going to be where sort of things starting taking off. So to go in a bit on the new Photonics customers. It is our third customer, SEK 6 million more or less. We are going to deliver this sort of Non-recurring Engineering Project within 2022. We are already working on the samples, and everything is going very good. The plan is to deliver them in November. And there is a multiple number of wavelengths for this product. Unfortunately, I cannot go into what it's all about, but it's, of course, within those areas I mentioned, where we now have a customer where we're getting close to sort of that kind of, let's say, consumer devices that is connected to this as well. If we look at Richardson RFPD, they are a very strong global distribution company. They are extremely strong in the Asia Pacific. They have a lot of salespeople as well as sort of sales engineers. And sales engineers for highly technology -- highly technical companies like ours is extremely important. And here, we're getting access to those kind of feet on the ground, and they will distribute and help us to sell our 5G, both the license and unlicensed, as well as the SATCOM products. And we have a very good relationship with them and hope to keep on building on that and show you results as we go. The Antenna-on-Display is, of course, extremely important step. We've been working with KREEMO on the USB downloads and so forth. But this is opening up for our technology and specifically MixComm technology in 24 to 39 gigahertz to get into consumer enhances devices. This hasn't been a market that we have been sort of saying that it's going to take quite some time if we ever get there. But with this acquisition, this is opening up, which is opening up the total addressable market for the company quite heavily going forward. And we hope to see results from this in the coming year and whatever KREEMO can be doing, and they are already working with different handset makers. And hopefully, we can sort of enter into that. But of course, it's not any promises on that, but it's a very good opportunity, and we've shown that it works now in mobile -- in the IMS [ attendant ]. If we go a bit into the different customer updates. I've got a question on how it's going with MaxLinear. And to recap a bit, we have a partnership with a quite large blue-chip company called MaxLinear who's doing basebands. Together with our RF, we can do 10 gigabit links in the frequency band, 57 to 71. We have already one customer working on the design. Samples were delivered in June. And first volume -- smaller volume batch in thousands of units will be delivered in September. So this is going really well. However, I know that MaxLinear are a bit hampered on their own basebands when it comes to volumes. And hopefully, that will be easing up a bit more, so we can actually go into larger volumes during 2023. If we look at the indium-phosphide platform again, of course, we have the optical communications, optical sensing and radar. We now have customers in all these verticals. And I can update you a bit on what we're doing in each and everyone what's happening. So we start with Ayar Labs then, which is in the optical communication market, which is both between computers, inside computers, as well as between the CPUs, sort of removing electronics between and sending signals by copper. We are now selling it via lasers instead. And Ayar Labs is a very exciting company with SEK 130 million closed just in May I think it was with companies like Intel and NVIDIA and HP. We have already delivered first samples and confirmed a full spec compliant, and we are very excited to see that. And together with Ayar Labs, there will be hopefully then sort of joint information about this in -- around the September time frame at certain events that will happen. So this is quite exciting. We are making good progress, and this is going to be one of the more exciting areas going forward in the future, and we're quite proud to be part of this. We're not alone in this. There are other vendors, second and third source vendors as well. And so we'll be working on that and trying to become sort of the main vendor. But even if we're not the main vendor here, it's going to be a very large market where these laser sources will be heavily needed going forward, and Ayar Labs are already talking about volumes next year. If you look at the #1 Fortune 100 customers that we've been working for the longest, which is the consumer electronics company. As you know, we've been working with them for over 3 years. We've gotten more than SEK 100 million in NRE orders up until 2021. This is in the optical sensing area for consumer devices. We develop multiple sensor chips. During 2022, so far, we got something like $2 million in smaller orders. We haven't press released them specifically because there haven't been over a threshold of about SEK 5 million each, unfortunately and also being a difficult to press release with such a big customer. But we've got them, and just actually recently, we've got 3 different smaller orders in different weeks here only in July of approximately $800,000. So we are -- this effort is ongoing. We're not coming yet to the volume phase, but it's ongoing, and we're very happy to work on this and still being bullish about the possibility to reach the volume production here. If we look at the other customer we couldn't mention here lately. This is -- that was a SEK 5.3 million order in December. This is a U.S.-based customer. Great progress. Expecting more NRE and volumes coming in, indicating substantial volumes in the future. And starting with smaller volumes already in 2023, but sort of growing heavily, exponentially into 2027 when this sort of market will actually start happening. If we look at other Fortune 100 opportunities, we are in 2 others as well that we haven't yet closed. We have shipped sort of [indiscernible] revaluation to one customer, and we have ongoing internal qualification to meet specifications to another customer. So this is definitely not sort of the end of the Fortune 100s on the technology basis [indiscernible] we're just starting, and we hope to add more. And the pipeline looks more interesting than ever. And now with Mike Noonen and MixComm team on the ground in the U.S., I think we can also accelerate our sales in the U.S. So market and supply. I mean there has been, as I've stated now for quite some time already from Q4 last year that there is a sort of component shortages for the first half. We're seeing a slowdown in the economy in general, hence, it's also opening up and easing the sort of shortage in that sense. And I think that's going to be positive for us, that the smaller players that we are working with -- mainly like in the 5G side of things, will get access to component. And the car manufacturing and all of those that has been pushing the envelope on this is actually now easing up and giving more room to other production also in the [ TSMC ] factory. We don't have shortages for us. We have a bit longer lead times in our own components, but otherwise, it's gone really well, and customers are redesigning. We have -- we are seeing positive things from August and forward for the second half. Overall, NRE costs are at all-time high for SATCOM and Photonics. We have not seen that much before, and we hope to see positive effects of that already in the second half as well. Inflation, of course, that is -- questions I get, and that is an ongoing dialogue with customers and suppliers. It is not too -- so easy actually to sort of -- for these long lead time items. It doesn't change so quickly, but it also affects us in some ways. But we're also monitoring closely, and we will, of course, increase pricing if suppliers are increasing pricing. It's yet to be seen, but I think there will be some effects. U.S. dollar has so far given us a positive effect. As you see, I mean, we are selling a lot in U.S. dollars. We're also buying U.S. dollars. But for example, from IHP in Germany, we're buying in euro, and now when we're getting dollars in. And the euro-dollar is actually equal more or less, that hasn't been that forever as far as I know. That is actually helping us in the cost sense as well to the chipsets we're buying from IHP. If you look at the different design wins, they are still ongoing. We have 10 design wins with customers that has tested 20 hardware products that is already out there, as I mentioned. AirVines is now sort of out demoing and coming to volumes here. We're seeing Fujikura is also getting there. We know that Blue Wireless when it comes to the track-to-train applications, that their customer [indiscernible] have built the first 50 kilometers of building outside of London, and we hope to see more of that. So it is easing up and improving. So we really hope to see more effects on this. And then, of course, with our SATCOM customers, the Tier-1 customer and others, we'll see things happening going into the second half, where we can see an increase on all of these things as soon as components is easing up. So to summarize things, Q2, a bit challenging. But overall, first half year is an okay under the present circumstances. And the integration of MixComm is completed. And we have come up with an optimal, I would say, organizational structure, and now have the opportunity to leverage the U.S. much more than we ever have. Expected to see growth accelerating in second half. Wireless and MaxLinear's volume starting from September already. Photonics has signed a very important agreement, and we think we can see more from that customer also on the datacom side. Richardson RFPD, we've signed a distribution agreement, quite important as well to increase and drive sales in general. KREEMO, Antenna-on-Display modules for metaverse and consumer electronics is a very important part of the things. We still have a good cash position. We came out with a cash of SEK 108 million in the end of the quarter. And we're also expecting less cash burn going into Q3 and that we've been burning before. So overall, I would say that we have sort of been over the expectations in the market when it comes to not burning cash and so forth now and probably in the future as well. So that is the overall presentation that I have, and I will now go over to Q&A here.

And as you all know, this windows is not so easy to read, but I will start from the top and go down here. Okay. The gross margin was down significantly compared to Q1. Would you elaborate on this underlying reason for this? So I mean, if we look at the overall, our target is to be something between the 40% to 60% gross margin. This quarter, we were down sort of closer to [ 60%], and we had 64%-something last quarter, which was above our expectations. But this is connected to NRE. I mean we are selling a lot of NRE. And the NRE margins are, of course, less normally than when it comes to products. So it is connected between that. Would you say that the operating expense were at a normalized level in Q2? Yes, I would say so. More or less, the operating expenses is more normalized now, and we're getting into a situation where we sort of have -- a more sort of after the integration of MixComm and so forth, I think we're at a normalized level, yes. You already said that you expected to be able to public with the name of the SATCOM customer for second half. What's the status on that? Yes. There is ongoing discussions, and I hope we will be able to come back and be more open about the name about that within this quarter. I'm not sure if I mentioned in the first half, but -- and I promised that. But I think during this quarter, I hope to be able to come up with the name, hopefully. Anders, would you be on the Sivers journey until the -- I'm trying to translate this, until the hopes and the future gets into a good position? Yes. I mean I'm here to work. I enjoy what we're doing. We have done a lot of work on Sivers now and to put Sivers in this position, and I'm here to be part of that. And we put up a fantastic team now that working on what we're doing. So I have no plans to leave, but that is the Board decision of mine, of course. You write in the report that you experienced an easy talk of getting new customers, but no new design wins for a while [indiscernible] in design wins? Yes, we haven't gone out with sort of all the different design wins currently. There are -- we want to be sort of more sure about things. We are seeing the signings as we go, but it's also been challenging in the sense that started with the components and the market. But I think it will ease up and we will also -- you will also see more of the sort of design wins and things happening going forward. I mean for example, the Fortune 100 was sort of a design win. Even if we don't really use the name design win within Photonics, it was still a design win, which is a major design win as well. Have you got the forecast on customers regarding their need for Sivers components for the rest of '22? Can you elaborate anything on more concrete level, what you expect from the rest of the year regarding actual sales? So we are unfortunately not giving any future forecast, and I can't say more than that. We're expecting to see a much better growth in the second half of the year. And of course, we are receiving forecasts from customers as part of the contracts we have. When volume start with the Tier-1 customer and the SATCOM customers? Yes. So the Tier-1 customer we expect volumes in 2023. We are right now in a -- in sort of a prototype building and so forth, doing -- they are evaluating first prototypes sort of now in August, something like that. And then, we are seeing the second prototype build or sort of the last build or whatever, and then we're seeing volumes during next year. I don't know if it's early or late. I mean we have to see how that goes. When it comes to the SATCOM, they're already buying chipsets in the thousands. But of course, now we have finalized the hardware and are going into the second sort of phase of the hardware. And hence, I will also say that in 2023 will be the year where they will start buying much more volumes. And as you know, I mean, volumes there actually -- there is about 1,700 chipsets per station, so that's -- [indiscernible] large volumes from that. Anything about the first and second Fortune 100? Yes, the first one, I already talked about. The second Fortune 100 is actually in discussions of next phases and so forth, but nothing new to report on when that possibly will happen. How does the cash burn looking? What is the current thinking about potential new fundraising? So the cash burn, as I said, we expect that to go down in the second half. We don't do forecasts on potential fundraising or that kind of stuff. But as always, we are building a company here, and we need to build a very substantial company in the future. So there is sort of a lot of things that need to happen in the future as well. [indiscernible] first, second or [ laser ] sourcing partner to Ayar Labs, when will they inform on this? I mean we don't know yet. They need to try things out and all the way. But I would say, since these are -- these laser sources are sort of standardizing way, I think that there might be sort of suppliers 1, 2 and 3. But if it's sort of volume size, is any difference between them, we don't know yet. So it might not matter if it is first, second or third in that sense. But there will be more information as we said in September on how is that going. So what's the status of orders from Cambium, you're bullish about 28 for a while, but nothing seems to happen related to sales orders either from [indiscernible]. Yes, I mean, we have orders from Cambium, and we are delivering on them. And as I've stated before, Cambium is just buying chipsets, they are not buying modules which is sort of a lower amount of sales. So sometimes the orders, so far since they haven't sort of gone into some super big volumes, has not been in the biggest level. And as you've seen last year, we had a couple of orders that we went out with certain levels. So they are working, but I don't think we should expect that Cambium is sort of the company that delivers some of the largest orders in general, because of that they just buying chipsets in that sense, even if it's some good volumes. How much did you have in cash 1st from July? SEK 108 million, 30th of June. When do you think KREEMO will get into smartphones? I think that will start happening during next year. I know that they are all ready. And if you go back and look at the press releases, they're talking about some handset manufacturers. But I think they will start on that. But of course, then there is a build time and getting into volume as well. How come you got such a significant pay raise despite revenue not increasing? Yes. I mean we've been moving the company over the years. The company has been moving from an [indiscernible] to NASDAQ. And I assume that the Board wants to keep me in the company and give me a market salary. And looking at similar companies, I'm still paid less than many of the other technology companies on the mid-cap and even the small-cap. So I think it's to get me a salary that is in line with the market, and that's just how it is here and -- yes. And you have, of course, have to ask the Board that they are setting my salary. How do you look at the cash of SEK 108 million? Do you soon need more cash? I mean that's a good question. And as I said, we don't really go out and talk about sort of when we need cash and how we need cash. We are building a company here and it might need more cash. It might be that we are getting top line into a level where we don't need cash for any other things than investment. But that is something we'll come back with. Which customers do you expect to give most revenue during second half, 2 numbers? I mean I don't talk about specific customers and what kind of sales they could bring in, in that sense, unfortunately. So I can't really answer on that. It's sort of a respect to customers, and we do that in press releases normally. Regarding the first Fortune 100, as the time goes on without the firm order, are you getting worried about potential evolving and competing technology for sense they are developing? No, we don't worry about that. It's a very long project to get the [indiscernible] into the market. And as you've seen, they invested SEK 100 million and now another SEK 2 million this year. We're getting orders of $800,000 just here in July. So I'm not worried about that at all. We have the technology they are using and, hopefully, that will get to volume. But as I said before, we -- there is no promises that are happening. Can you give an update on Fujikura? Yes. Fujikura is working on many different projects. We are in 3 different hardwares that they've built. They are Japanese companies. They're quite a bit slower, but they've done everything from trials with the buses and autonomous driving there and so forth. And we hope to start seeing also, then being able to start giving some volumes second half this year. You have worked for a long time with the first Fortune 100 customer, when do you think the pilot line will start? Yes. I mean we have been trying to get an understanding of that. We don't know yet. But as you've seen, we're getting orders. We're working on it. I think it's very positive that we are in the right situation there. So hard to say yet. Any volume sales in the pipeline through Imec? Yes, I would say that when it comes to certain things we've been sort of going out with and shared, that is connected to Imec. Imec themselves will not buy from us. Imec's technology, with our technology, will enter into customers' solutions. And because it's customer solutions, I am -- have to be careful when I tell you what they are using or not. We can talk about our things and so forth. But I think we're seeing customers I've already mentioned today in 2023. You started mentioning radars now related to MixComm, can you elaborate the thing on what kind of potential customers that you target related radars? Currently, it's more kind of sort of research and the military type of projects in the U.S. that MixComm has come in. So nothing like the radar we have been doing before. There is, of course, potentials for automotive radars and that kind of stuff in the future, but we have not sort of done that. Then we have a few customers that are using Sivers' current sort of communication chipsets in radar solutions. So there are ways of doing that. And it's not so big difference between the radar and the communication chipset. But -- so there are things that we offer in that way. So that's why we keep radar as one of the legs as well. What are the biggest things you hope for during second half? I think it's all about getting into volume and getting sort of things running now and that all the sort of components and the pandemics and all of those things. And even hopefully, the war in Ukraine can go away and create a more sort of calmer market where it's more predictive what's happening. So that's very important. And any news about the progress of NXP project? Yes, we're working hard on that. I hope we can have more information before the end of the year what's happening with the NXP project. It's been a long journey, and not sort of just connected to us, but also to how NXP and what NXP are doing internally with their projects. But we're making progress. Are you going to buy more shares? Are you buying more shares? Yes, I bought shares, and I did it before this meeting today. Yes, so I don't need to get that question. And something about the emission -- why? Okay. Now I don't know what you're talking about. There is no sort of share issue in that. So I'm not sure what you're talking about. I've been buying more and more shares. And as some of you know, I got the divorce 1.5 years ago and had to give my wife off my shares, and I'm buying back and trying to get up to the same level I was at that point. And you mentioned potential Datacom business is the most recent Fortune 100 customer, does this mean that the company operates with both consumer electronics and data center cloud? Yes, in some cases, there are customers who have things that are in consumers and also data center cloud. That's correct. Have you changed the way you are buying into the company, for example, buying a nearer [indiscernible] U.S. have you stopped buying for specific places and countries? I mean we are a bit more West European U.S. focus. And also with the partnership with GlobalFoundries, we are more focused on that side. We haven't stopped, but we are trying to avoid Eastern sort of supply chain in that sense, even if it's not maybe fully possible to not do that. Status on the MixComm bonus deadline? Yes, it's connected to some customer events. So I cannot go into exactly well and how that will happen, but we are working on it and there are progress. What are your thoughts on cost control going forward in the world where inflation and recession is still possible? Yes. Of course, I mean, as I said before, Sivers is a company that needs to sort of speed into profitability. We cannot sort of put the brakes on getting profitability in that sense. We're sort of -- we own 140 people. And of course, we can reduce cost and do things. And we have our eyes on that. Inflation or recession is possible, but as I said before, in a way what the -- the products we are selling and the things we're working on, even in the recession, they are sort of like water and electricity. They need to be there. Computers, communication and all those things will happen. So I think in a recession, it will, in some way, improve the situation on the components and all of that, and that will sort of help us. Inflation, as I said, it might be a challenge, but still to see if this inflation is going to be staying here for a long while or if it's a short term. If we're getting into a recession, I assume inflation might go down and not stay at these high levels. But this is an ongoing thing that we don't really have a full answer on yet. What other as you see of interest receivers? Any new areas? Not really. I mean we have the areas we've been talking about, and we are focusing on that. In the sort of new areas, I would say the most exciting right now is SATCOM and the Silicon Photonics areas in itself. So I mean, that's still new areas that we're really happy with from. Do you still see that Sivers would have a headquarter in Sweden in the future or will it help the business to move into the U.S.? No, I mean we have no plans to move the headquarters. We are a U.S.-Swedish NASDAQ-listed company with headquarters here in Sweden. We have today, 90% of our investors in Sweden and Europe. So no, that's nothing that we foresee at the current. Do you believe you are a growth company that will deliver a positive result after or are you a hopeful company? I mean our plan is to be a growth company that will start delivering positive results. It hasn't been sort of -- you see during this pandemic and component shortages and war in Ukraine and all of that has really been a tough time to sort of build and create a new company. But of course, our path to positive cash flow is what we're working at, and that is what needs to happen. And to take control of your own destiny, that is an absolute must. Do you think that 2023 will be a positive year for Sivers? As I said, before, unfortunately, I don't give a forecast. But I think 2023 is going to be a year where we can see if sort of the market and all things sort of keeps at a good level, we can see a good growth areas. We have seen Mike Noonen likes posts for this SATCOM company many times on LinkedIn, any comments? No, not really. Okay. So in general, I mean, we are liking companies, we're working with companies, we're talking with companies and you can always see sort of conspiratory about who we're looking at and what we're doing and feel free to do that, but we cannot really comment on companies. We like a lot of companies. We know a lot of companies and we're working and talking to most of the companies in the market. So if people like things, it doesn't automatically mean a thing that I think you're looking for. At IMS, how much attention did you products get? And did you have many new initial meetings with potential new customers? Yes, we have a lot of meetings. The week was full. We got a lot of attention. And as you might have seen in the Micro Journal, we were pointed out to some of the most important parts. Any answer from Ericsson on the article about semiconductors in [indiscernible]? No comments directly from the people. I was sort of hoping, like the CEO and so forth. I have been talking to people at Ericsson, of course, as we know people there well and I am trying to set up meetings to discuss this with people further down in the organization. And they told me that this has been noticed at Ericsson, and there might be some comments or not. I'm not sure if they would like to comment. But I think Ericsson needs to take the responsibility and take the leader sweatshirt on this and drive the semiconductor industry in Sweden. There's so many things they can do that they're not doing today. AirVines starts selling volume soon? Yes, AirVines is supposed to start selling volumes from Q3, Q4 forward. They are, of course, not starting with huge and it's all was a ramp-up. Yes, they are. Okay. When can we as shareholders get the names of the Fortune 100 companies? Yes, I don't know actually, because they are the ones who decide that. And if we would go out and tell the names, we will immediately lose the customer. So it has to be on their terms, unfortunately. But I think you shall all see it in that way that there are sort of a number of technology companies on the Fortune 100 list, and all of them are great customers to have. So independently of the name, please view sort of the orders and the customers as they are quite good and interesting customers in that sense. And sometimes even the sites of the Fortune 100 does not reflect the amount of things they're going to buy in volume in some cases as well. So it's better to maybe not have the names sometimes to just hype things to a level where they might not be. But I would say all of these 3 companies are very large companies, and we're very happy to have them as customers. Yes, the Capital Markets Day is planned on the 26th of September, I think. I think I had that in my CEO word. So looking to come with more information there and also bring some of our very exciting customers that we have to that to share more. Okay. Time is coming up here. I have no more further questions. So I would like to thank you all for listening in. And I've seen it's been something like 150 people popping up here in the middle of this vacation in this fantastic summer day here in Sweden. So thank you so much for listening in. We're really excited about the future, and we are now getting closer to all of the things we've been working on so hard. Thank you so much for joining.