Sivers Semiconductors AB (publ) (SIVE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to this webcast for second quarter 2023. My name is Anders Storm, and I am the Group CEO of Sivers. I am going to take you through the numbers and updates. First of all, we have had a really good growth this year, 91% year-to-date. And we're also confirming our outlook for 100% this year and also positive EBITDA second half. And this is due to strong growth in NRE, strong order intake and orders basically in all verticals, which is very, very positive. So this is actually the third quarter in a row. We have extremely good growth. I think we've grown about almost 100% or 97% in the last 3 quarters, and sold over SEK 150 million this 3 last quarter as well. So that is really good. And as I think I stated in November '22 in Redeye event and After Work event in Gothenburg, we're going to see our 5 most sort of best quarters ever for the company, and now we fulfilled 3 of those quarters. And we're very confident that the coming 3 quarters -- or the coming 2 quarters also going to be very strong. So net sales amounted to SEK 45 million, a 69% growth. We've had a very important $1.3 million order for optical sensing for LiDAR in the quarter from a U.S.-based customer. We also started a very important project to make sure that we can sort of grow our wafer production. We've also had an important message about the Indian market, together with Intel and WiSig at the G20 event. We're also getting sort of grants both in Europe and in the U.S., where we got a very important DARPA grant and which was sort of one of the main things to acquire MixComm at that point. We also secured SEK 150 million direct share issue from a very prominent institutional investors in this quarter as well as we've sold SEK 11 million to our sort of most famous Fortune 100 and shipped 30,000 chips to them also in this quarter. We also got an important order from Ayar Labs, which is our partner in the future, really hot optical I/O area for SEK 11 million, and this is sort of to get to the market. I will talk more about that. All in all, over the last 10 months, we actually had an order intake -- just sort of published orders of about SEK 270 million, and I'll talk about why I say published here as well. If we look at these orders then, there is -- among all these different areas, great orders. I mean we're having orders within the SATCOM areas. We're having orders within LiDAR. We're having orders within our consumer electronics areas and so forth. So it's a lot of good news and a really good momentum, and we're seeing even stronger momentum and sort of a great pipeline for the second half of this year also for new orders coming in. So just to remember as well, we don't do sort of an order book, but it's, of course, easy to summarize the number of peers we do because in the order book, there is also smaller orders for 5G and other things which is sort of everything below normally 5% of the early net sales. We don't really press release all orders. So remember that, so the order book is actually bigger than that SEK 270 million overall. Also, we're confirming the outlook for '23. And as we stated already in the Q4 interim report, we will see sort of a forecast with at least 100% growth for the year. It will vary between quarters, which is sort of inherent to what's happened in companies like this, where we have product orders versus service orders, and that is how it is. But still, we're seeing a very positive year here. And also seeing -- achieving with the heavy growth in the second half, if you extrapolate this, we will see SEK 162 million the minimum in the second half here in sales, which will also bring us to a positive adjusted EBITDA for the second half, which is extremely important, of course. And then again -- I mean, there was a beamformer order, for example, that was moved between quarters, and it could be sort of base or so forth that sort of moves orders in the same quarters. So overall, almost 70% growth in the quarter. Adjusted EBITDA is strong, and it's actually stronger than you can see here, even if we plus. It's actually -- we've reduced the R&D capitalization by SEK 11 million. So if you compare apples-to-apples, we're actually much stronger here if you add those SEK 11 million to last year's sort of adjusted EBITDA in the sense that we're now getting fully paid by the customers rather than doing R&D capitalization and developing our own IP. We're now getting paid to develop our IP, which is a huge step forward for the company, which has been sort of happening over the last year a lot. Also improving our EBIT quite a lot. And of course, effects here in sales and increasing sales going forward will improve all of these numbers as well. Looking at the segments. Q2 Wireless, a really strong quarter, 128%, Photonics also growing quite good now, which is 33%. And as we stated before, we're focusing quite heavily now on -- due to the macroeconomics on North America and Europe, more or less 50-50 there. And the same thing actually for the business units, we're delivering 50-50 of the sales this quarter which is really one of the main points for the business here that we have a really strong growth in both businesses as well as we're bringing in new customers. We also have sales from several different verticals, which is sort of securing a more stable order value, order intake as well as stable growth as we now have shown 3 quarters in a row and expect to deliver on in the future as well. So looking at that sort of stable growth, SEK 104 million sales, almost double the sales than for the first half of this year. Here as well improving adjusted EBITDA. Same thing here. We have, as you can see, reduced R&D capitalization with over SEK 20 million. If you extrapolate that, we're actually improving the results really good here. And you can see, in that sense, the gross margin affecting this as well when we don't capitalize things the same way. So here, you can see what happened since 2016. And after the pandemic now, we're really seeing a very positive growth and 46% 2022 and now 100% 2023. So if we look at sort of the key market metrics, what has the company been doing over these years, and it's good to iterate what we've actually been spending and doing here. So we were on spotlight in 2016. We're now at Mid Cap Stockholm and we have high hopes to move forward in that in the future. We've increased the number of shareholders from 1,600 to over 22,000. We had no institutional investors in 2016. Now we have 21% of the company, and I'm going to talk more about that. Market cap has increased from SEK 0.2 billion to SEK 1.6 billion and revenue now going -- gone from about SEK 18 million to SEK 266 million plus this year. So we think that all the key metrics is pointing in the right direction, and we'll keep on pointing in the right direction in this journey we're on. So looking a bit more closely into things behind all of the significant events in Q2. First of all, as I mentioned, the LiDAR order, the Photonics capacity, the Indian market, the different grants we've got and so forth. And then, of course, the Fortune 100, what's going on there. So first of all, if we look at the Photonics order, that is a customer that we got the first order in 2021 for chips and development of chips. This customer have now sort of decided to get to the next phase where we sort of qualify and make the chips ready for mass production, and that will sort of happen in the second half of next year, I would say. And this is very advanced arrays that is used for LiDAR. So really good that this sort of customer is now moving in this direction, and we have a very good pipeline of other customers in this LiDAR area as well. So this is just sort of the start in that sense with our Photonics business. If we look at the capacity, I mean there's been a lot of discussions how and what we need to do to be able to support both our optical I/O stuff in the future, but also the Fortune 100. And to be sure to -- because these are long processes, we need to sort of start these processes. So -- therefore, we have -- and we're looking at 3 different paths, and I've been over -- traveling in the U.S. discussing these kind of things with both investors and possible partners here. So one, of course, is to build a greenfield fab and all of that, which is sort of a long project, acquire and fix sort of a fab in some way where there is already our capacity and build out and of course, buying capacity from a third party which is sort of maybe not the preferred path, but we would possibly sort of acquire and fix, which is sort of the most sort of capital -- less capital intensive, I think, in that sense. And there is absolutely the right time to do this now since we're very U.S. and European centric. We actually have a big support from the different CHIPS Acts that are coming out with massive amounts of money. So we think that this is really a good timing to be investing and looking to invest in this kind of production capacity. And talking about investments, these are the sort of new funding we got SEK 150 million in the direct share issue from major institutions, and I'm really happy to see support from multiple Swedish national pension funds, AP2, AP3, AP4, Cicero fund was also new and Serpentine Ventures from Switzerland, also new investor. And then on top of that, of course, we have support from AMF, Swedbank Robur and other funds as well. In this sort of funding climate, it has been difficult for many companies, we were able to actually get this funding and -- due to our really strong quarters and also strong outlook, I would say. We also secured refinancing of loans, which we sort of have paid back SEK 50 million out of the Modelio loan that we have. And all of that is sort of sorted out to continue our growth journey. To give you some flavor on the funding base. I mean, if we look at sort of we have mostly long-only funding when it comes to institutional investors now as I mentioned, AP2, AP3, AP4, AMF, all sort of insurance and pension funds. Swedbank, Cicero and others, and with this sort of new capital coming in, we also sort of increased the capital under management by 3x actually. So the funding base has really grown, but also part of this is, of course, to look at even -- and even stronger funding base in the U.S. now, and that's partly where I've been doing and traveling around meeting institutional investors and others in this sense. If we look at the Fortune 100, which has been a very important part of it, we're now up to SEK 163 million in sort of NRE funding over these 4-plus years. We're progressing really well, another SEK 11 million in this quarter and also delivered the 30,000 chips to the qualification and system test. In total, this year, we have got SEK 22 million, which is sort of the most we've got so far in the first half and in one year. And as I mentioned, SEK 163 million plus, including the deliveries now. As I mentioned to -- before, the 1,000 wafers per week is part of SEK 50 million chip sets per year sales that we can do, which translates into sort of sales about $120 million a year. So that's why we're looking at capacity, and we're waiting to sort of getting feedback on the qualification, no update yet. We just delivered the chips, but we're expecting to get numbers and feedback during this year, of course, on where to go next here. If we look at the significant events after Q2, there has also been -- just after the quarter closed, we got the Ayar Labs order in, which is I'm going to talk a lot about. The DARPA funding is, of course, an important piece here. And just this week, we got another SATCOM project to develop antenna solution, which from a really large top-tier SATCOM network provider, and we also got an industry veteran from the former GlobalFoundries guy, Bami Bastani joining Sivers as a Strategic Adviser for sort of further strengthening our business, especially in the U.S. So that's really a lot of good news coming in here even after the quarter closed. Ayar Labs, as I mentioned, this is a very important project. This is one of the really big growth markets for the future and a market that is really changing how people would use sort of computers for generative AI in the future and really supporting the -- how AI will sort of grow in the next phase. So this is the second and sort of last step before volume production. So qualification and everything. We foresee sort of prototype volumes during this year, but -- on top of this sales, but also real volume starting then from end of the year, a bit slow but then sort of growing over the years where the bigger volumes coming in a bit later. So what this is -- how is this sort of affecting the generation of AI solutions? And why is this used for -- in the AI ecosystem? So why are we talking about this? So basically, it's quite hard to understand the -- sort of how long this ecosystem is in the sense. But of course, we all know about ChatGPT, Bard and all of the AI tools that's coming up now that will change the world, and we've already seen a lot of changes due to that. All of these guys are using cloud services like Azure from Microsoft, AWS and Google Cloud and so forth. And in those clouds, you have the Intel and Hewlett Packad, and the nVIDIA, and the AMDs and the IBMs of the world where they sort of provide the GPUs and CPUs and all of that to sort of support the sort of big clusters that is really data intensive to do all of this. And all of this is sort of coming to sort of a wall when it comes to the more slow and so forth. And it is really important to sort of be able to reduce both the latency, but also the power in these things, and it gets hotter and hotter and more and more power is used. So therefore, that has been developed over the last couple of years and over, I think, 7, 8 years, there needs to be a solution at Ayar Labs, Lightmatter and others and the big vendors are now looking to go from electrical I/O into optical I/O. And this optical I/O is sort of reducing electricity by 90%, increasing the speeds by, I would say, in the first generation about 10x. So going from today's sort of 1 terabit or whatever -- or yes, it's 900 gigabits per second to about 8 terabit per second, and we already demoed 4 terabits per second, and there are sort of -- the only thing that can solve this is sort of the light sources and the chips that Sivers develops, and we're really first in this, I would say, in many cases and having this. And it's only been demoed by Sivers together with Ayar so far. Lumentum and MACOM are other companies that are doing this as part of the ecosystem as well, which is really good to know that there's more companies doing this as well. And on that, so now the generation of AI is sort of -- everybody is talking about that within the coming 2 years, everybody is saying that they need this kind of solution. We have demoed 4 terabits already, and we're doing that together with GlobalFoundries and Ayar Labs, and we'll keep on sort of working on getting this now also to the 8 terabit, which is the sort of the holy grail to do 10x for the next generation here, and that's part of the project we're working on. And actually, Sivers provides the lasers that were sort of flip chip straight on to the GlobalFoundries silicon platform, and that's then used by Ayar Labs. If we look at this, I mean, 90% light -- I mean, 1,000x speed depends how you count, we'll say 10x now for the high-speed computers and you actually will send light between the GPUs and CPUs, as you can see here, and it's sort of a groundbreaking technology that is sort of advancing the more slower and really fixing the issues with getting this to the next step. And we're very happy, and this is an extremely important project for us to be part of, and we're the sort of first customer or first supplier that Ayar Labs is signing up to deliver this for the future and volumes. But it's not just Ayar Labs who's doing it. I mean there is many more and there's been funding into many companies here, over $400 million over the last 12 months. There's over $700 million over the last sort of years when it comes to that. And Ayar Labs has recently finalized the second part of the C round, which is now totaling $155 million and that's coming from companies like nVIDIA, Intel, HP and others, also being customers at the same time. There is 3 other companies who recently together have raised about $250 million and Sivers is sort of one of the few who have supplies here, and we're sort of talking and working and have small orders also from most of these companies. So we have a great progress and a very good place in the ecosystem to be part of this journey. The DARPA award is, of course, very good to have and be part of this and getting into a market and sort of U.S. Defense Industry via like the MixComm team close to this now and this is just a start. We foresee more of this and also in connection to other sort of CHIPS Act programs and so forth. And all of this revenue will be recognized in this year. Also, the new customer coming in, you might have some questions around this customer. It is a new customer. We haven't worked with them before, but they've been part of the ecosystem that we've been working. They are a very large SATCOM company. They own satellites. Revenue will be recognized second half this year and in Q1 '24. This is sort of an electronically-steerable phased-array that we design and we use our own beamformers into that as well. So this is a very interesting project. And of course, in the long term, these panels will be integrated into a terminal vendor partner to the satellite company and then be part of sort of overall services and solutions here. So this will also hopefully then create volumes and sales in mass production later on. So that's sort of summarizing the Q2 numbers, but I also want to give you an update in general where we stand in the company with respect to a lot of different things. I can't go through all customers. I get a lot of request on customers, but sort of this -- okay. Just one moment. I'm getting some feedback here that -- it seems like the picture are not showing still, let me see, -- can you write in the comment section, if there is any -- if you can see the slides now, it seems like they are -- have been stuck on 1 page according to someone who told me, let me see here what sort of -- if there is any comments so I would -- yes, it seems to be more people who've seem this. Unfortunately, they haven't -- okay. So no slides -- okay. Let me see, if I need to -- so I can change this now and if we can see it. That's really unfortunate. Let's see. I don't know why it's not changing. Okay, now can you see the slides now, hopefully. Okay. Okay. Yes. Sorry about that. My hard -- my hard drive and the whole PC have died before. So this is a new piece I haven't worked on before. So hopefully, you can see everything now. So unfortunately, I don't really have time to go back and do everything again. But let's move to the numbers for the next phase here. Really sorry about that. Let me see. Yes. Well, we can put up the slides later on that in a way and maybe overlay the sound on them. Okay. Sorry about that, my bad here. Okay. So let's go into other matters and update on that. So yes, as we all know, and I talked about that now that we have -- we're making progress in all verticals, and we're selling in all verticals. And that's sort of, in some way, overexpectations, sometimes you do things in some verticals, but now we're selling in all of them. So that's really good. And we're in a lot of really interesting Megatrends and especially SATCOM is really doing well right now. Our consumer electronics stuff is also doing really well as well as the LiDAR and of course, the optical I/O with the Silicon Photonics stuff. So we're really happy about all of these areas. And to give you some flavor, why is this so important in the sense that all of these Megatrends, what -- why are they happening now? So if we look at the Silicon Photonics revolution, it's actually based on one very important thing is that we can now marry the silicon with the Photonic lasers. And that can be done based on patents and stuff that Sivers have created. So as you can see in this slide, you see the small red things here that is actually lasers that you can sort of put straight on to the silicon with the waveguide. And that is a big revolution and a big change where you can miniaturize, make it small enough to use it. And that's where our strongest parts are. And for example, Microwave Journal said recently that consumer -- indium phosphide is the holy grail for consumer electronics, for example, and that is like you can put our indium phosphide stuff onto that. The other piece that is really strong within the Wireless business is sort of high frequency steerable beamformers and antennas. And basically, you can now and you need to do with the high frequency we have, you need to beam steer everything. And everything from moving cars to trains to satellites they need to be followed basically now. The satellites are no longer on the stationary. They are actually flying in very high speeds over our heads . There's a lot of them. You need to connect to them. So our main knowledge share and the knowledge goers acquired from Columbia University with MixComm is actually all about this, how do you do these things and how do you do it good. And then on top of that, how do you sort of design those beamformers internally, of course, in the best way, and that's where we've been really successful. So this is sort of supporting all Megatrends, and this is quite important to understand the relevance of these 2 parts that sort of driving Sivers technology. Yes. And I mean looking at what is this sort of Megatrends and how big are these markets? These markets are extremely large. We estimated the TAM sort of the coming 10 years to be over USD 10 billion. And we have the SATCOM, which is a big part of that. Even the 5G is going to be big, and the Photonics parts are also quite big here. So over $10 billion, which we're addressing, and we're scratching the surface now when it comes to sort of -- we have still a lot of services and NRE, but we're also seeing volume coming and especially it's like in 5G, SATCOM now moving a bit ahead, and we expect to see more in that area. Talking about sort of 5G, the major Tier 1 system vendor. We're still working with them. We're progressing, somewhat delayed due to, as I mentioned before, array size and configuration. They've done sort of the first prototype build. We expect the new prototype build soon, and we'll share that with the market as well when we get to that step. And this is an exciting project, of course, to be part of and could really increase the 5G business as well when it comes to volumes, of course. Thorium Space, we got an order for about SEK 20 million in Q1. That's progressing really, really well. We're running that as part of the revenue we're sharing right now. This is beamformers chip sets for ground terminals and also space deployments for the first time for us. And we're looking to close sort of the next qualification phase before the end of the year, hopefully, where we also sort of could add even more stuff into and increase our pipeline here as well. And All. Space, of course, they have deliver the first terminals already. We're seeing good movement in that. So all projects also that we have with them is going great. We have the SEK 15 million order for delivering in Q3, we expect even larger orders soon for products and beamformers for the second half and early next year. And we have a great cooperation also for new projects here. So we're really moving in a good direction here. And looking at the flat-panel array and the growth in this market, there will be quite exponential over the coming years because this technology, as I mentioned, with beamformers and beam steering is sort of a very new thing. And overall, this is sort of SEK 10 billion -- or SEK 50 billion market where we can see -- up to 20% of that could be the market with the customers we have, including All. Space and Thorium Space and the new customer as well. So this is really exciting, and this will be part of the heavy growth going forward from '24 and forward for Sivers in an area, which is going to be very important. We also see -- quite happy to see in a moment in sort of connectivity here. Again, beamformer is really important. Blu Wireless and evo rail are winning now train and they're scratching the surface here. First of all, the Caltrain in California. We're seeing high-speed trains in Spain, which is sort of the first ones getting to this. And we assume with all the work that evo rail putting in and hiring new people, all over Europe, at least in many of these countries, we'll see sort of a broader build-out coming in the next phase. We also have Blu Wireless in the defense industry. And as I mentioned before, defense is getting more and more important. And I hope to see more of this in general and the same technology works really, really well here for the 60 gigahertz. 28 gigahertz and mmWave is also going well now. At Cambium Networks in the Q2 reports earnings call they say, "in addition to our 28 gigahertz fixed 5G product had a record quarter, and we had earlier than expected stocking orders for our new Point-to-Multipoint. Fiber product." So this is sort of -- they are really happy with the solution we have with them, and this is a good design win, even if in this case, we're selling only chips and not the full modules, which is sort of reducing maybe the sort of high sales volumes in that sense. Okay. So to summarize, I mean, we have a very strong momentum going into second half. We're very confident meeting outlook. We had 91% for the first half of this year, SEK 270 million in official orders and other orders on top of that. This means that there is a strong outlook that reaching over SEK 162 million second half, 100% growth and the positive EBITDA second half. Orders in all verticals, optical I/O, LiDAR, Fortune 100 customer, 5G and SATCOM. So we're very proud of what we're doing right now and it's going really, really well. And I think that is all I had from a presentation standpoint and again, very sorry that you didn't see the slides, but I think we -- our marketing can make that happen afterwards hopefully. And I'm happy to see almost 200 people on the call right now, and I will now take the questions as well.

So I've seen there is a lot of questions come in as well as answers to myself. So I'll start with this one. In the Oppenheimer presentation, you said Sivers is aiming 20% of the chip market in areas SATCOM terminals and that you could achieve this will be customers already have today? Yes. I mean, as I just mentioned and showed, yes, I can reiterate that, and I totally agree that we could do that, and that's sort of a really big market. I think that's -- in the sense of -- it's just SEK 10 billion here -- you say $5 billion or SEK 50 billion, which sort of its 20% is about $1 billion in the sense that should be possible to reach. Yes, if you look at '24, do you think revenue will increase compared to '23 or will this be a flat year? No. I mean we're seeing a very strong pipeline and you will see more coming in. And all of those things we do now in NRE, which leads to hardware sales or product sales is actually sort of coming also to fruition. So we don't foresee a flat year next year. Let me see here. Next question. Fortune 100, you said there are several projects with them, how many of them and are they making progress? Yes, there are several projects. It's both sort of emitter and the detector project. And if we win both, I mean, that will mean that we double the money in the things that I've presented in a way as well. Fortune 100 [indiscernible] projects canceled? No, it's not canceled, but it takes a long time to get to the next phase, and we have no update on that currently. You're saying a several Fortune 100. Can you say anything about F100 project company product? No. I cannot say anything about those, but there is -- in several areas in Photonics. In all the areas, we have that type of customers. So in all verticals, there are Fortune 100 we're talking to, we can say. LiDAR customer, how big volumes can you see here and when, time frame? I don't sort of gone into the volumes yet in that sense. There is sort of -- that market is not as big, I would say, as optical I/O. And it's, of course, very depending on the automotive market also getting started. So I would say volumes will come more in end '24, '25-ish in that area. Can you give us a clue on what is for a product or for the LiDAR? I can't give you any clue there right now, but it's for a LiDAR solution for automotive, enterprise and so forth. Are you in any project with other companies similar to AR. If so, how far from market volume? Yes, we're definitely, as I mentioned in the presentation, there are several companies we're talking to and basically being the only company who have this sort of race already that we can demo with, we're talking to all of them. We have ongoing projects with most of them already. And hopefully, we can share more about this in the second half of this year. And maybe even we can get someone to join us at the Capital Markets Day, the 27th of September, let's see. Tier 1, your early estimate SEK 30 million sale deal with MixComm. Do you still estimate this and you see that happen? Yes. So that has changed the terminal and the array. So I don't have an updated number on those estimates currently. But I would say that when we get there, I think we can get closer to and estimate the numbers. Intel wise, again, please update time frame, expected volumes, something new about the countries, Africa, Asia? So I mean the time frame is still the same, I would say. And the prototyping is now done now and they will do field trials and so forth. And I would say '24-ish is when we see volumes. And of course, not only India, I've to say, from the G20, there was a big interest also from other sort of countries like Asia and Africa. The cooperation with NXP and progress in Indian market, news or further plan? I mean we're progressing that as well and the work is ongoing. No new news per se that we can share. In India in general, can you say anything about how many customer operators they have? No, I cannot share details about customers and so forth on that, unfortunately. 8Devices are you still in line with earlier PM regarding sales? We are mostly in line and they're part of the sales that we've done and that we did last year and this year as well. However, I think the market is a bit softer on some of those customers, and we've seen competitors having really big issues, I think in these kind of areas when it comes to sales. Cambium, are you going to sell even the antenna to them? Yes, we hope to be part of the antenna project actually in the next phase now as we said, with the new 5G project we have and they're going to upgrade to that, yes. Li-Fi, are you in some sort of project with any customers in this area? No, I think currently, Li-Fi is on hold a little bit since we have to focus on the other stuff we're doing. AirVine, you said that maybe you are going to make and sell not just the chip and antenna? Yes, we have already actually -- they have ordered both chips and antennas to the solution now in the recent order that we -- I think it was in Q1, that was part of that order that we went out with several customers. So yes, they have actually sort of used our stuff on both sides. KREEMO and Semtech? Nothing new actually, on that side. I know that KREEMO is, for example, doing a lot of work. I don't think Semtech per se is sort of a big volume company. They are selling more test equipment and that kind of stuff. KREEMO, however, has a very interesting portion when it comes to handsets and so forth, and we'll see if we can get them and they can be successful there. Repeater customers, please update us? Yes. As I said before, that the repeater market in the U.S. currently has not progressed well with -- for anyone actually. And I think there is sort of an on hold on repeaters, especially when we talk about the C-band, and all of that has taken over in the U.S. currently and mmWave is coming back in the next phase. I think we can see more repeater work at that point. Do you have several projects with future LiDAR customers? Yes, we have at least 4 or 5 LiDAR customers in the pipeline, and some of them we already have contracts with. I noticed there's a locked bank bonds in SEK 50 million. What is this related to? And will you get these funds in return? Yes, they are -- well, they will be in return and they're related to a customer project that we're doing. So they are just locked temporarily due to that. Working capital has had a negative effect on SEK 25 million in Q2. Do you expect this to reverse on going forward? Yes. I think we've had -- been working on how the working capital will affect us in the future. And of course, we had some investments in that sense that we needed to do in the quarter. You have received 2 orders for qualification, one F100 and one from LiDAR. How long do you expect this qualification processes? Yes. I mean both the F100 -- we also have Ayar Labs. So all of them is sort of in qualification, I would say, LiDAR and Ayar. And basically, it's sort of about a 1-year process sometimes to get to that phase. Is the restructuring cost of SEK 3 million included in the personnel cost for [ SEK 37 million ]? Yes. Regarding your outlook, would you have been adjusted EBITDA positive in Asia without the delayed shipment of SEK 50 million being pushed to Q3? Yes, I think so. It's a bit hard to say, of course. But I think so -- and you might see other things coming in that will sort of clarify that, which I can't talk about now. Rockley Photonics seems to be restructuring and back in business. It's a rumor that their assets are up for sale, do you see the return effect on Sivers progress? No, I don't. Rockley have had very little effect on what we have been doing, I think, over the last couple of years. Regarding the project that you have with the LiDAR customer, did you knock out the previous supplier? Or have Sivers been with this customer from start? No, we're knocking out a previous supplier that they're using today and sort of improving their solution for the next generation. Can you elaborate a little more on the development in hardware sales, especially Wireless, how do you pursue this development among coming 12 months? So I mean, we will be growing the company and we'll be growing the share. I think we have 15% hardware sales in Q2 and we will be growing hardware sales as we go. And of course, the plan is to sort of become more and more hardware sales as we go ahead. And I can't go into exact numbers, but hopefully, in the outlook for '24, we might be able to say something about that. Will you get -- will you finalize the Fortune 100 customer? Yes, that's the sort of million dollar question. I mean, we're in a very good position. We're progressing all the time. They invested heavily. They like what we do. So we definitely hope so. It's more about sort of when than if, I would say, nowadays. Yes. And here is questions around, just seeing the first picture. Development in Indian market concerning this Wireless access, do you have any signed customer in this market for any of your 2 collaborations? Yes, we have a WiSig and the Intel project at this time, yes. In the Q3 report, you mentioned there are 3 companies that is working on optical solution, but hasn't been mentioned as a customer. Are any of these mentioned companies, serious customers? I cannot comment on that. But of course, you can draw your conclusions from what I'm talking about. Okay. There's been a lot of things about I don't see the presentation. So I need to delay a lot of questions here right now. One second -- lets see. And what happened to the other F100? I think I answered that. We don't see your slides working on the leading questions here. More questions about that. Yes. Will there be a Capital Markets Day this year? Yes. Tentatively, that's on the 27th of September, and we're working on that agenda and I will probably soon go out with the information. You don't sound as positive as the F100 as before? I don't know. I think I sound very positive about the F100. No slides. When do you expect to see signing anything in print with the F100? There is at least last date for this to be completed. We don't have a last date. It's all about them testing our stuff now and getting back to us, and they have an internal milestone that as far as we heard from them, it's going to be in this year. And from that, we're going to get feedback. Tier 1? I already updated you on. We expect to see more orders on the Tier 1. Semtech, aiRadar. aiRadar, you haven't talked about? I mean, they are doing well. aiRadar is, as I said before, not a big customer per se. They will sell a little here and there, but it's sort of -- they could sort of make new sales with other customers, what are they doing. Yes, the Tier 1 is supposed to coming in Q1 -- in Q2, and the Tier 1 is actually -- as I said, they have changed the array, and we're working on that, and it's soon to be more information on that. No slides. Will the delay of funding from the CHIPS Act affect your time line for new factor? I don't see there's any delay on the CHIPS Act from our side, and we're getting funding from the CHIPS Act in different projects as we see right now. Can you give some more flavor on the last SATCOM customer and the actual solution in the PM? And relative just to solution where you deliver a race to an existing solution. No, it's not a race to an existing solution. It's actually a new array to a new solution. So I don't know where you got that from. But..... How long to actual hardware sales here? Yes, of course, I mean, we -- I would say possibly 18 months. But I mean that's a big estimate here because there's a lot of different parts of the ecosystem enrolled here. So I will have to come back on the exact numbers here. We already talked about the Tier 1, start picture well as the new slides. Have you delivered the Tier 1 prototype? Yes, we did that first, but we're going to deliver more Tier 1 prototypes. No slides. You've been around in the U.S., talk to investors. Are they interested to invest in Sivers that actually parallel listing in the U.S.? I think the interest is really high. The U.S., as you know, have had large sort of challenges when it comes to small cap companies and that kind of thing. So it's not sort of the best investment climate still, but I think that everybody is talking that, that will change from September, October. They are quite interested. We focus also a lot on investors that actually works within our ecosystem and they understand our business. And that's the good thing about the U.S. investors, they really understand the technology and everything, and they have their eyes on Sivers now. And we're showing up more like the Oppenheimer stuff and others. So it's been really good meetings in New York around that and elsewhere in the U.S. So yes, we're really happy. Okay. So now we got to the phase where everybody could see the slides. Keep up the good work. Thank you for that, Victoria. Will you publish this on the network? I'm not sure what, but yes, we'll publish, of course, this information we have here. Capital Markets Day, again. Qualcomm press release that you have started rolling out with Jio, India, where our Sivers and to communicate Indian solutions concerning rollout? I think that from that sense, we're working with Intel and NXP in that sense. And Qualcomm have sort of finalized solution and our solution needs to be built together. So we're a little bit behind Qualcomm in that sense in the Indian market and possibly sort of a bit of a different use case also when they are doing. You still work with Tyco? Yes, they have our solution. I have seen several sort of marketings about that lately. CMD, again. We don't have a prognosis for India and Intel in volumes? No. Do you -- the Fortune 100 again, the questions is about, are you still positive about volume? Yes, I am positive in the sense that we now believe it's more of a timing issue than if -- of course, you could never ever be fully sure. But I think we definitely moved in the right direction and invested a lot in this. Yes. I was talking about sort of All. Space, 20% and will that increase? I mean, I think that when we talked about the 20% in general, we know what we have behind us. But of course, it could increase as well, but still it's a huge sort of income we can have only with 20% as well. So I don't think we should be picky about 20% or 23% or 25% here. How is the volumes for the Fortune 100? It's about SEK 50 million per chip -- per year in volumes with the Fortune 100. Do you see any volumes for AirVine? Yes, we're delivering. We got some orders, which was part of the order in Q1, and we're delivering. And they are winning more and more customers. But of course, that will be a catch-up effect when they sort of start rollouts in wider areas. Fortune 100, the same question again. How is 5G going? It's going as we said before, a bit slower. But we're, of course, seeing some uptake and we believe that India will be the sort of market that could sort of support this a bit more in general and when C-band is sort of running out of steam, I think 5G mmWave will come in. Same question, 5G again. There is 116 headcount in the company right now, and we've reduced from 130. Are you happy with that? Yes, I think we're happy with that. We have sort of find a good sort of amount of headcount and also have the right sizing to reach a positive adjusted EBITDA. So we're happy with that, yes. Tier 1 question, again. Devices again. Repeater again. SATCOM hardware -- SATCOM hardware orders? Yes, I mean we have SATCOM hardware orders. But as I said in the report, we're expecting to see more orders definitely. Yes. Again, same hardware question. My sound is not good today. It's like you're sitting in space. Okay, yes, that could be fitting. Yes. It's because my computer completely died and I still haven't fixed the real one. So this is a loner. Unfortunately, that created some problems today, but yes, that's live. Have the interest from U.S., American investors increased? I think so. And also, you might have seen there is some new big funds dipping their feet a bit on the toes. So hopefully, there will be more and more interest from the U.S. now when they're moving into sort of, again, looking at small cap and growth companies. So I think we're in a very good place to be in the right place for that when that happen. KREEMO, again. Your focus SEK 50 million chip for F100 customer, include both receiver and transmitter? No, it's actually only one of the projects in that sense. So it could be SEK 100 million, yes, per year. But I mean, we have to be careful on what it could be and not be here, but yes. Do you really hear right here, is it worth receiver and transmitter means SEK 240 million? Yes, it could mean that, yes. Do you believe in positive cash flow for '24? We haven't gone out with that forecast and -- but I mean if we do all the things right and everything grows, it shouldn't be impossible to get there, but I cannot promise anything in that sense, of course, more depends on CapEx investments as well and what we do there. Will you buy more shares? Yes, I always do, and I will probably do now as well. You talked about F100 now for 5 years. Do you think that it's time for information? I mean we're giving information. And as we said, I mean, we've been working with this for quite a long time. But it's very positive. It creates sales. We're doing good things, and there is an enormous upside. And of course, if the customer doesn't give us the full things what they're doing and they're very secretive, I can't give you anything that they don't give me. So if you're not happy with that, it's not much I can do unfortunately. You discussed first -- investments in the factory. How do they look like? Yes. I can't go into that. It's a long thing, and we're running out in a few minutes, unfortunately. No, I have no more news on the other Fortune 100s currently that we have projects with. Any positive about fixed wireless access? Or is it pause or not competitive yet? I think it's -- there are small movements in that area, and it is competitive. And I think it's just sort of that the C-band has been good enough in a sense for that to not roll out, but the expectation is that it will roll out more and more as we go and more and more customers comes to market. Which category do you think will generate the most revenue in '24, Photonics or Wireless? I think probably Wireless, as we see it now. Wireless is growing quicker, but Photonics is also coming strong in the end of next year, I would say. So we'll see. So you might be fabless as in Photonics for the bigger volumes? No, I don't think so. I mean that is definitely not the preferred thing, but it would be a sort of neglect from our side and not look at that kind of thing. But we're definitely aiming to have either greenfield or the other pipe, but yes. Do you need a production facility both in the U.S. and Europe? We'll still keep our product facility in Scotland. It might be that then we add something in the U.S. So in that case, yes, we'll have both. Can you say anything about funding? Yes. I mean I've talked about that. It's a long thing to go through, unfortunately, and we're already up an hour. Unfortunately. I mean, so many more questions here, and I'm sorry, I've done the hour and I need to run to the next interviews and stuff. And thank you for all the questions. Thank you for attending. I'm really sorry about that there was no slides. I hope the words went through well anyway, and we'll try to fix this on the Internet. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.