Weimob Inc. (2013) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Weimob Inc. 2024 Annual Results Conference Call. A copy of the annual results announcement can be found and downloaded from the company's Investor Relations website. [Operator Instructions] This call will be conducted in Mandarin, and English simultaneous interpretation will be provided. Please note this conference call may cover non-IFRS metrics, and refer to the company's results announcements. Joining us today on the call are Mr. Sun Taoyong, Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer; Mr. You Fengchun, Executive Director and President of Weimob Group; and Mr. Cao Yi, Chief Financial Officer. I will now turn the call over to Mr. Sun.

Investors, good evening. Welcome to Weimob's 2024 Annual Results Presentation. I believe you have already read the data. So to me, I think after reading the report, you may feel surprised. Well, there is one very important point, and that is, this year, in relation to our revenue, first of all, there is an adjustment in relation to one-off discount in 2023. It is RMB 129 million. It is because of the 2023 results, and there was an adjustment in 2024. So revenue after adjustment, RMB 1.468 billion. Last year, in the second half, near Q3, Q4, Tencent started an overall platform reduction in rebate. And there are some effects to this policy, but we don't know the comprehensive data at the end of the year. In relation to our customers, at the beginning of the year, a relevant framework agreement was signed. So our response to customers is that it could not be reduced. So as a result, there is a big rebate gap. Tencent gave us rebate. We also offered to customers a rebate. However, the rebate from Tencent decreased, and it is not passed on to our customers. As a result, in 2024, our Merchant Solutions revenue was down RMB 170 million. So if you want a true reflection of Weimob's 2024 annual revenue, I think the 2023 one-off discount of RMB 129 million and 2024 policy impact of RMB 170 million plus RMB 299 million, if you add that to the revenue, then it should be RMB 1.63 billion, so down 22% from last year. Many investors may be concerned that last year or in the first half, the total revenue for subscription was almost down 28%. So it is more or less the same as the full year estimate. In the first half this year, during results announcement, we emphasized Weimob's strategy focus. So especially for noncore business of SaaS and low-quality business, we have done a lot of adjustments. For example, smart catering, it was being disposed of. And there are some investments into small and micro business network. And we have reduced some noncore cities as well. So as a result, subscription solution revenue for the whole year is down by about RMB 300 million. In first half and second half for subscription, basically, it has stabilized. In the second half, our Subscription business had come down in revenue, because in 2023, there was some deferred revenue in the first half. Because of that, in second half of 2024, as compared to first half, there was a slight decline. But if you look at the order trend, basically, it has stabilized. This year, in Q1 2025, when we look at the orders, basically, if we do an estimate of the first half, looking at the SaaS order trend, it has rebounded already. So after last year, strategic contraction and adjustment, we focused on key accounts and high-quality development, overall revenue has started to stabilize. And then for Merchant Solutions, last year, in relation to Tencent's reduction in rebate policy, well, there was a lag behind effect. There was a gap of around RMB 300 million. For 2025, this year, the policy is quite certain. We know that the media will still do a reduction in the rebates, but the number is already quite certain. So for our rebate for customers, it will also come down. Our rebate for our customers will be higher than the decline in Tencent rebate. So if you look at Merchant Solutions revenue, it can be more or less the same as in 2023. So in 2025, Merchant Solutions growth will be quite certain. In 2024, Merchant Solutions revenue was down significantly. We believe that it should be a one-off event. No matter whether you look at 2023 adjustment or policy impact in 2024, we think that Merchant Solutions, despite the big decline in 2024, overall speaking, I think it was just a one-off incident. And then if you look at segment results or revenue, subscription revenue, that is our Smart business, it's up 5% year-on-year, accounting for 67% of subscription revenue, almost 70%. So we focus on our key accounts and high-quality development. So for SaaS business, in the future, development will be very stable, because our key accounts revenue this year should exceed 70%. So it is very sound and stable overall speaking. Last year, for small and micro businesses, they are of lower quality, so we have already contracted it. So in the future for SaaS, I think it will stabilize. Advertising. Well, last year, our gross billing was very good. Last year, RMB 18 billion, up 24.5% year-on-year. So gross billing for advertising has increased. However, we did not seize the opportunity of platform policies. So as a result, we did not make any profit. So in the future, this year, we would like to do a better control of rebate policy. And then for Merchant Solutions, there should be some room for profit. Operating loss, the number is quite big, but there are many adjustments. Some are related with intangible assets, some are related to other things. So that would be an adjusted amount of RMB 500 million, as I said, RMB 170 million for advertising and then altogether, RMB 300-odd million. Operating cash flow, RMB 332 million. It is quite stable. So actually, last year, our financial loss, our cash loss was RMB 300 million. Next, our CFO will walk you through our 2025 cash flow and profit trends. So there will be quite a lot of room for this year. Now I'm going to walk you through some key points about our businesses. First, key accounts. So in fashion retail and also chain stores, we maintain an important position within the top 100, and we are bringing in more and more key accounts. For key account revenue, it accounted for 67.2% of subscription business. This year, it will exceed 70%. Last year, for retailers GMV, up 59%. So we think that we are happy about this. For our solution retailers, well, given last year's situation, that business still enjoyed a big growth. The number of members kept on growing for us. We are exploring diversified commercialization. For example, we are working with Alipay, Huawei, HarmonyOS and also some other stores. So in this way, we can better bring effective services to our merchants. Last year, WeChat Mini Shop made a big move. So they have the gift function. And before CNY, this had caught a lot of attention. Now for Wei Mall, we face different merchants. No matter whether those at entry level or those who have already started stores or those who have mature private domain capabilities, we offer different solutions. With WeChat Mini Shops, well, there is connection. Merchants can use our Mini Program management and their merchandise orders, members are all connected. With WeChat Mini Program, they can be led to WeChat Mini Shop right away. And in this way, the private domain Mini Program can also get into the public domain. So I think this kind of connection is quite well done. And then for WeChat Mini Shop, we have got a store opening guidance plan. So there is navigation guidance and also other all-round service. In the future, for WeChat, e-commerce and WeChat Mini Shop and also public private domain business, it will get better and better. And for our mall and also e-commerce retail, I think there is going to be a big boost. Now let me talk about AI. For AI deployment, basically, it is in 3 areas. First, for the new SaaS merchants, we offer a WAI SaaS solution. So at the beginning, it is an assistant mode. Now we have 15 agent product matrix. For these agent product matrix, it can very well help our merchants for onboarding, operation, efficiency improvement, data analysis. So there is a comprehensive solution, especially for small- to medium-sized merchants. In the past, they had to buy our Mini solution. And then they also need operators, planners, designers, data analysts, many workers to support them. For small operators, it will be difficult for them to use such a software. Now with our agents being online, so for example, we have store decoration agent. So customers only need to send some product pictures, and then we can very quickly build their product page for them with product descriptions, and we can choose the store layout for them to build a complete store. So our AI agent -- when our people are not online, if consumers have any questions, our AI agents can lead them to do online shopping. So this is very suitable for small stores. So with the launch of our agents, we realized that new customers' mutual utilization is up by 200-odd percent. Those small to medium merchants using AI, the fee renewal ratio has risen 75%. In the past, it is not true that the merchants did not know how to do it. It's not true that WeChat Mini program was not effective. It's just that they don't know how to use the software. After using our app, then they find it very effective. Apart from the SaaS Solution, we also have a WAI Pro solution facing larger customers. We offer a more customized AI solution from consulting, testing and also multimodal customization. So Weimob precise marketing team was the first to use WAI Pro because we need to do a lot of advertising, photo -- picture and image material preparation. So now with WAI Pro, we are able to reduce design manpower by 30% to 40% and operation cost is saved in the range of RMB 20 million to RMB 40 million. Now with WAI Pro, daily average materials had already reached 10,000 items with good effect. And then in the future, for video, if things get more mature, then our manpower can be reduced by 60% to 70%. This is possible. Now for WAI Pro, we have many brand customers. Many brand customers are using our WAI Pro, so that the customized solution can be built. And for professional consumers, we have WIME. WIME.ai. So this is a product. It is not only limited to Weimob e-commerce key customers. For those who use e-commerce, no matter whether they are individuals or companies, they can use WIME.ai product. So... [I'm sorry, the audio line was cut. The interpreter cannot hear the speaker. There is no audio input for the interpreter.] [Audio Gap] were only limited to Weimob's own customers. All e-commerce operators, individuals and companies can use it. It can be used to generate photos, product posters. And also recently, we have AI button. In the past, we needed different photos, different descriptions. And now, for example, clothes can be worn on virtual models. And now we have already got 40,000-odd users and 5,800-odd fee-paying users. Fee payment rate is already quite good. We are using a lot of large models like DeepSeek and also Tongyi Qwen and other platforms. There are other overseas models like OpenAI and Claude and other large models. Finally, concerning business outlook. Well, there are 4 main points. First, we serve our WeChat small shops, mini shops on a multidimensional way to enhance the whole ecosystem. Now Tencent for WeChat e-commerce, they have attached much more important for WeChat Mini shops in the past. There was much traffic about search and also private domain search. Now these are connected. And then there is also WeChat gift giving. So products are made into a meta component, and then it is then connected to WeChat e-commerce. So with that, we can also enjoy some benefits out of it. For the e-commerce on channels, well, right now, the scale is only like RMB 200 billion. In the future, we may see a scale of RMB 2 trillion to RMB 3 trillion. In the future, we are a core service provider of WeChat Mini Store shops. We are also a service provider in advertising and also there are other areas. There are a lot of areas where we can take part in like our advertising business growth and also SaaS to upgrading our operation and service, Mini Shop and also incentives and also KOL nurture and aggregation, live streaming, sales and so on, all these can make contribution to our revenue. We'll focus on e-commerce retail. Just now, I already said that in relation to AI deployment, we are doing a lot for Weimob SaaS. Last year, we made big strategic adjustment. We focused on our key accounts. And this year, SaaS overall revenue has stabilized. This year, when AI business is being nurtured, AI commercialization will be able to contribute revenue. And with our WAI Pro and WIME and WAI SaaS, they will become new growth engines. Besides, we will deepen our operation on multiple scenarios, and we'll do retail digitalization. Key account share exceeded 60% already at 67%. This year, we expect it will surpass 70%. So we will increase key account share. And then for our industry, in the past, we were working with convenience stores, fashion and construction materials. Now we also have our membership system and we have appointment service, distribution business and so on. And with our AI capability, e-commerce solutions, retail solutions, they can all be deeply integrated. We have AI smart analysis, smart strategy, and smart follow-up or tracing, and then content can also be generated. At the same time, we'll continue to develop our multichannel ecosystem. With Huawei, we have connected with them in terms of ecosystem. There will be incremental business. Then we will use a [indiscernible] way to seize overseas market opportunities. Now for example, we are working on retail products. For example, POP MART in Middle East and Southeast Asia has been developing overseas. For us, [ marquee role ] application. So we are already a store on Shopify. And then Shopify Market is used by many merchants. At the same time, we are investing into a new product. So it is totally based on AI agent. It is a SaaS independent product. In the future, it will be facing the North American and European markets. For this product, we think that after it is launched, for AI native scenarios for the North American market, there will be quite a big effect. At the same time, we will also try marketing. For example, we are taking Google advertising, Meta advertising, Apple advertising through overseas market, there will be new revenue growth engine. So the above is my conclusion of last year's results and future outlook. Overall speaking, 2024 is a challenging year last year. There was USD 200 million CB maturing, and we have completed the recovery of USD 200 million for the newly issued USD 90 million CB. Well, last year, it was handled. So our interest-bearing debt have decreased. So overall speaking, last year, revenue was affected because of some adjustments -- one-off adjustment. Of course, that was out of expectation, but we are full of confidence in 2025. So we have confidence in this year's results. So now I'll defer to Mr. Cao, our CFO, to analyze our financial data.

Thank you, Investors, analysts, good evening. Now I'm going to walk you through our financial results. First of all, please understand that for the financial statements, we have to look at what happened in 2024. Now Mr. Sun already talked about the business operations in 2024. He also talked about what happened with our revenue. So I would like to give you a more systematic analysis. In 2024, we faced a challenging external macro environment. So for consumption retail, they are still relatively weak. External environment is still a headwind. In 2024, for Weimob, it is a year of adjustment and transformation. At the beginning of the year, we actively adjusted our operations. We focused on Smart Retail and also medium to large customers. For loss-making noncore small to micro merchants, third-party businesses, we did some contraction and exit. So to a certain extent, there is impact on our revenue. For merchants, as you know, in the past, apart from advertising revenue, we have also TSO and financial business. Now profit is still thin for these. There was even some loss. Right now, given the headwind in the economic environment, we'll focus on precise marketing and our own business development and customer mix adjustment. Because of external macro environment change for the advertising platform, it is also adjusting its rebate policy. In 2024, advertising platform reduced rebate to downstream. Every year, the rebate policy is being adjusted. But for 2024, the reduction in terms of strength and breadth was the biggest in history. So this reduction in rebate, the point is not to decrease our profit, but then it is hoped that our discount for advertisers can be reduced. But then the reduction took place at a certain point in time. It doesn't only trace back to 2023, when we had already offered advertising service. And also it covers 2024. And so as a result, this time point happened in the second half of this year. At the end of Q3 and Q4, communication was not enough. And when we pass on to downstream, that takes a process. So as a result, for Merchant Solutions, rebate income and also profit, that was one-off shock. If you look at our financial statements, total revenue, RMB 1.34 billion, down 40%. Subscription revenue, RMB 918 million, down 31.9%. Merchant Solutions, RMB 421 million, down 52% year-on-year. So later on, I will elaborate more on the reasons behind the volatility. And then for Subscription and Merchant's revenue split, because of change caused by the rebate change, in 2024, there was an inverse pattern. Subscription revenue accounted for 68%. So there's an increase. In 2025, when Merchant's advertising rebate income rebounded, then this will be reversed. We can see that when we are more focused on medium to big customers, and our business restructuring continued in 2024, Smart Retail accounts for a bigger share of subscription revenue, 67%, up 22 percentage points year-on-year. For cost and expenses in the past few years, we continued our organizational optimization and cost-saving measures. Our manpower at the end of 2023, 4,584. It came down to 3,563 in 2024, down 1,021 persons. Total staff cost, RMB 1.52 billion, down to RMB 1.61 billion (sic) [ RMB 1.16 billion ], down 23.7%. So this enhancement has been our normal move now. At the end of 2024, if you look at our balance sheet, total assets, RMB 6.96 billion monetary equivalent, and also advertising revenue, RMB 2.05 billion. For 2024, if you look at management of balance sheet, we have lowered our debt leveraging, especially foreign debt. So you may understand that in 2021, we issued a CB. For this CB, in July 2024, there was a redemption window. So in April 2024, we completed the refinancing of this old CB and we advanced the repurchase. We issued USD 85 million new CB, and we did top up of USD 40 million with our USD 90 million own funds. Then for the CB issued in 2021, USD 200 million, we bought it back in total. So it is settlement by cash. In September 2024, we issued new CB. So we turned that into share settlement. Up to now, most CB -- new CB has already been converted. Remaining is USD 600,000 face value. So to our company, offshore leveraging was greatly reduced as of the end of 2024. If you look at short-term debt, RMB 2.06 billion for short-term debt; collateralized debt, RMB 30 million; syndicate loans, RMB 365 million; other liquid capital, RMB 1.665 billion. Our liquid loans are based on advertising business, healthy development, and also some capital needs. The banks are willing to extend us loans. So we maintain a consistent gross billing growth in advertising business. For 2024, our advertising gross billing accounted for around 13% to 14% of Tencent's social advertising revenue. So we are the top company. Our clients' trustworthiness is very good. In second half 2023, we mastered our capital management and cash capital. In 2024, gross billing of advertising business rose. Net cash inflow, RMB 300-odd million. Free cash flow improved by RMB 420 million as compared with previous year. So that's the result in capital management in 2024. Next, I think I need to spend some time to go through revenue. Mr. Sun already made some points. So... [I'm sorry, the audio input was cut. There is no sound input for the interpreter. I can't hear the speaker. So I cannot provide interpretation service at this point.] So when we look at revenue reinstatement now, if you look at this financial statement, volatility of revenue is a main point of concern. As Mr. Sun said, our total revenue this year in 2024, RMB 1.34 billion, down 40% year-on-year; subscription revenue, RMB 918 million, down 31.9%; Merchant revenue, RMB 420 million, down 52% year-on-year. On the financial statement, revenue volatility was big. The main reason was 2 points. First, the company took the lead to adjust business structure, and we accepted some trade-off. For example, our Subscription business, we focused on key account, Smart Retail SaaS business. For Merchant Solutions, we focused on profitable and cash flow generating precise marketing business. We made an exit from low gross margin and low-quality business lines. And for those that rely on third-party channels, small to micro business subscription service, we did a reduction. And besides, we made an exit from Smart F&B business for Merchant. We contracted TSO and finance business investment for Subscription. Because of business focus and restructuring, revenue contraction in 2023 was RMB 300 million, but this was not present in 2024. In 2024, our related business cost and expenses was also down RMB 330 million. So in other words, we reduced loss by RMB 30-odd million. So in other words, what we are doing to the profit and loss account is to reduce loss. So in 2023, if we exclude the RMB 300-odd million low-quality business, subscription revenue should be RMB 1.049 billion. In '24, it is RMB 918 million. So we will go back to a more reasonable level, down 12.5%. Subscription revenue, it had come down because in the past 2 years, 2022, '23, macro economy and retail faced pressure. So orders for subscription business was at a trough. For SaaS, our then revenue partly came from orders on hand and also existing customer number was not enough. So the fee renewal orders will also be affected. So that's about the volatility in our Subscription revenue. For Merchant, TSO and finance business, the business contracted. So there is year-on-year decline by RMB 159 million. For these 2, it is the result of our active adjustment to the business mix. We optimized business structure. So revenue gap was RMB 460 million. And then on the platform in 2024, there was a reduction in rebate. The point is to enable operators to pass on the rebate decline to downstream. But then the strength is quite big, and there is a time gap. As a result, in 2024, there were 2 impacts on us. First, in 2023, some advertising service rebate would happen in 2024, because of that policy. Then that means in the second half, we only came to be aware that there is a one-off discount in the rebate. So this impact caused an impact of RMB 129 million to Merchant revenue. And then there would be a further 1 point decline in 2024 comparing to 2023. We only knew that towards the end of 2024. So we had not enough time to pass on the decline in rebate to our downstream. For precise marketing business, rebate in 2023 is 3.7%. So then it can restore the one-off price discount of RMB 191 million, and it came down by 1% in 2024. Impact on revenue and gross profit was RMB 170 million. If we take a look at these factors, basically, they are all one-off. However, for our 2024 revenue, there was a major impact. So this chart wants to make a point. In 2024, overall revenue, RMB 1.34 billion. In 2024, the incidents that I mentioned just now and also low-quality business adjustment, altogether, RMB 460 million advertising rebate decline and also the previous year's one-off price discount. If all these are restored, then in 2024, revenue should reach almost RMB 2.09 billion. Now this revenue, comparing with 2023, basically seem to be more reasonable. So this is to help you understand the volatility in our revenue. So I think this slide is very critical. Next, gross profit margin. Because revenue fluctuated in the past half of the year, gross margin also fluctuated. In 2023, subscription gross margin was at 66% to 67%. It came down to 60% in first half 2024, second half, 51% after adjustment. This is because revenue was impacted by our active adjustment in 2024. If heading, R&D expense, capitalization was excluded, subscription GP margin in first half 2024 should be 80%; second half, 77%. In 2025, there is a favorable factor. In 2024, all capitalized R&D expenses and intangible assets have been provided for in impairment charge. And all the R&D expenses were included in one-off administrative expenses. So in 2025 for subscription business, there won't be intangible asset split. So gross margin will increase significantly. For Merchant Solutions gross margin, as I said earlier, basically, it is about 3 businesses: high gross margin advertising, low-margin TSO and finance business, their share fluctuated that leads to change in gross margin, but we took the initiative to contract the finance business. So it came down in 2024. Its share came down. Overall Merchant Solutions gross margin increased as a result. Then when we look at our group's overall loss, there are a few points that I would like to supplement. Here, in 2024, our overall loss was RMB 1.744 billion and a big increase from previous year, but you can see from our results announcement, non-Hong Kong financial standard adjustment. So within this amount, a big part is one-off or noncash in nature because of accounting treatment. RMB 129 million is because of advertising rebate issue that is one-off. RMB 450 million was the accounting treatment impact because of the old and new CB. RMB 27 million noncash share payment. RMB 260 million R&D expense capitalization linked to intangible assets and impairment charge had already been amortized. RMB 297 million investment fair value impairment charge. And then there is also the staff departure compensation. These are noncash, and they are not that related with our normal operating activities. After these items are restored, then the adjusted loss is RMB 533 million. In 2023, it's RMB 550 million on the same dimension. So the loss on a year-on-year basis was narrowed. Subscription business loss in 2023, RMB 640 million. In 2024, RMB 583 million. The loss is RMB 57 million. Order on hand and existing customers are not enough. So DM split was reduced and staff costs came down. Other expenses as well. So loss was reduced, but still -- well, actually, the loss has come down, but the extent was lower than expected. But from a positive point of view, if you look at cash flow, as Mr. Sun said, subscription business free cash flow in 2023 was outflow of RMB 922 million. And in 2024, the outflow was only RMB 679 million. So the difference was RMB 230 million. Part of the reason is because of our R&D expenses, there is impact because of accounting treatment. In 2024, we capitalized it. So R&D expenses in the profit and loss comparing with the previous year improved. Comparing with cash flow dimension R&D expenses, the decline was RMB 230 million, and also bad debt provision, a difference of RMB 50 million. This is noncash nature. So on cash flow level, subscription business improvement is bigger than the loss narrowing. So Merchants profit increased by -- the gross billing increased by RMB 3.5 billion. So Merchant business profit was affected. What is positive is that by actively improving our customer mix and strengthening our payment terms for our free cash flow, it has achieved a year-on-year improvement, RMB 178 million. So that is our loss and cash flow situation for our 2 business. Finally, I would like to walk you through our loss. From 2023, it's RMB 549 million adjusted loss. And in 2024, it's RMB 533 million. In the future, what will happen to such loss? In 2023, whole year net loss was RMB 549 million. In 2024, by active adjustment of our business and being more focused, we reduced loss by RMB 70-odd million for subscription business, but orders are soft. And so there is an increase by RMB 130 million loss. In 2024, platform rebate declined. And so advertising profit was reduced by RMB 41 million. Staff cost reduction, other expenses reduction reduced loss by RMB 160 million. Adjusted loss narrowed to RMB 533 million as a result. In the future, with these positive factors in place and also state policies are more and more positive and the economy will be recovering, then we hope to achieve breakthrough in our results. First, for subscription business, we believe that the weak order situation will affect revenue in 2025. For new customers' orders, if there is a growth by 10%, then subscription revenue loss will be narrowed by RMB 50 million. And then in 2025, early 2025, we have already passed on the rebate decline to downstream. And then it can go back to 3.6% for the rebate. So basically, it came back to the 2023 level after one-off discount. So a better customer structure will mean that gross revenue for 2025 will be lower than 2024. But overall speaking, advertising profit can still go up by RMB 120 million. We optimize costs and reduce manpower. So that will come -- salaries will be reduced by RMB 100 million. Total effect will be RMB 180 million. For intangible assets in 2024, we have already made all impairment provision. In 2025, all R&D expenses are included in administrative expenses. As a result, GP margin will go up significantly, and loss will be reduced by RMB 200 million. Number five, one-off special bad debt provision, RMB 0.55. In 2025, this will no longer be there. So overall speaking, these are some ways for us to reduce loss in 2025. Apart from loss reduction, so that we can achieve breakeven in 2025 for our free cash flow, there would be some inflow. In 2024, free cash flow is a cash outflow of RMB 550 million. Merchant business inflow of 330 million in 2025, inflow can increase by 100 million to RMB 430 million. For subscription business, in 2024, outflow of RMB 670 million. In 2025, there will be an improvement by RMB 300 million. So outflow will be 380 million. For Merchants business, cash flow will improve by 100 million. [ The sound input stops again. Sound input has stopped. ] Just now I said already that in 2025, free cash flow subscription business will improve by RMB 300 million. Merchants, there will be improvement of RMB 100 million, overall improvement, RMB 400 million. In 2024, cash flow is that there is an outflow of RMB 350 million. If there is improvement of RMB 400 million, then in 2025 for our free cash flow, we can reach a positive number. So for 2024 loss and revenue fluctuations, this is our analysis and also our outlook for 2025. Now I will leave time for investors and analysts to ask questions.

[Operator Instructions] [ Yao Yen ] from Citic Securities, please. First question.

I want to focus on your business. I have a few questions. First, for subscription business, in 2023, 2024, your subscription business revenue was being adjusted. It is in a stage of stabilization. So Mr. Sun, can you give us an outlook? In 2025, what would be the development of subscription business? And what is the key focus? Your subscription business revenue, what is the main growth point in 2025? What would be the growth rate? And when will you see a turnaround?

Okay. As I analyzed earlier, regarding our subscription business and also our strategic adjustment and contraction, in 2024 first half and second half, basically, our new orders have stabilized in the second half. Comparing with the first half, there is still a decline because of deferred income. In 2025, we believe that this deferred income can lead to profit growth of 5% to 10%. This year in Q1 and first half, there was order growth projection. And actually, in Q1, comparing with last year, we saw an increase already. And there would be some impact on deferment. Last year, because revenue came down, so this year for deferred income, there was impact. So this year for deferred income, I think we could reach a growth of 5 to 10 points. So there will be stabilization. For gross profit, there will be a big increase, 15 to 20 percentage points improvement. This year, GP margin may reach 70% or above. For subscription business, breakeven, we expect that it would be in 2026. Well, there would be still a loss of RMB 100 million to RMB 200 million. And next year, for subscription business, we can achieve a turnaround. For subscription growth pathways, I will ask Mr. You to take the question. Mr. You is responsible -- well, in the past, he was responsible for advertising business. Now he was responsible for advertising and SaaS. Mr. You, can you tell us your future business strategies and operation strategies?

Investors, analysts, good evening. Regarding our business development plan, there are 2 points. First, for our operating strategies, we insist on focusing on key accounts and industrial-based customers. We'll focus on Smart Retail revenue. And in 2024, our Smart Retail revenue, RMB 618 million. So it's 67% of Subscription Solutions revenue. In 2025, Smart Retail revenue would account for 70%, as Mr. Sun and Mr. Tao mentioned already. Besides, we have our advantages and strength in industries, for example, our fashion, footwear, FMCG, home decoration, construction materials, convenience stores, supermarkets and so on. These are our favorable industries, and we will increase our market share in new industries and new scenarios. We continue to dig deeper for example, pets and also medical aesthetics and so on. So we will deliver differentiated solutions for the industries. Next, we will also strengthen our ecosystem capabilities for industries. So for example, multichannel traffic ecosystem, cross-platform integration. In the past, when it comes to mini programs and now WeChat Mini shops. And also right now, we are working with Alipay, Huawei, and also the HarmonyOS meta service, we are doing a lot of cross-platform integration. So we would enhance our product capabilities in this way. And for our ecosystem building, that is also our focus. We will bring in more ecosystem working partners to enhance our key accounts, personalization demands. For example, there are some scenarios with strong demand, so we can enhance our revenue for commercialization. The third point is we will raise our Merchants operation service capabilities. In the past, we focused on customer development. So our overall SaaS is to enhance customer satisfaction, fee renewal and so on. So this year, for merchants, operation and service, we'll focus more to drive Merchants business growth so as to increase our subscription business growth. And number four, internally, we need to deepen our overall financial operation strategies. So our group's standardized profit model and strengthen various centers' and departments' operation awareness and operation management capabilities to complete and deepen our strategy implementation. So this can give more critical support for our overall business development. And then on our commercial product strategies or professional product strategies, as said earlier, we do not only work on original product solutions. We need to identify new industries opportunities and innovate and bring in new services. This year, for product strength improvement, first of all, for emerging industries, we focus on localized service. Those industries that we mentioned, for example, light, medical aesthetics, pets verticals and so on. So for existing customer operation capabilities, we will invest industrial resources into our members' operation capabilities, so that there will be stronger operation management and member management system. And then for shopping guide, we will invest more into this area and better integration. We will put in more R&D capabilities. And number three, as Mr. Sun said, in the area of AI, we will make it our focus, especially SaaS plus AI segment, so WAI products. We'll focus on efficiency enhancement, intelligence building, content, smart production, and then smart operation, intelligent operation. In the past, we invested a lot on efficiency. And in 2025, in terms of intelligent operation of Merchants, we will put in more product R&D focus. So that is about our business operation strategies for 2025, commercialized product, design main points.

Okay. Mr. You, you talked about WeChat Mini shops, gift giving and AI progress. My question is, at present, in WeChat Mini Shop and [ longbao ] function, what new trends have you seen for your business development? What kind of impact will be caused? Besides, regarding AI in 2025, what is your plan? How much investment will you make? How is customer feedback for this product so far? And for the long term, what impact would that be?

[I'm sorry, there is no audio input again. No sound is heard. So it seems that the line will be reconnected after every 10, 15 minutes.] For WeChat Mini Shops and also the gift-giving function, we have done a lot of product renewal and updating. So for WeChat Mall, we have already created the relevant service for WeChat Mini Shops. So for orders, members and so on, they are all connected now already. And there is also the connection to the Mini Programs through [ longbao ]. From Mini Programs, they can be connected or led to Mini Shops. And then for Smart Retail segment, we offer to customers online, off-line and also a new operation traffic product to satisfy customers' needs. So in the future, we will refer customers to Merchants, the shopping guide, in order to achieve better effects. So for gift-giving, QR code will be placed online and many merchants like to use it. For our AI product, WIME, it is already online in WeChat Mini Shops. It is our first AI product, and we have some WeChat Mini Shops, proxy service and also KOL promotion service. So WeChat gift-giving function, to many merchants, it has increased their confidence, because in the future, Tencent for the Mini Shop operators, no matter whether it is about products or operations, there would be a lot of support. So many merchants will review whether or not they would like to get into WeChat again. So there would be many more merchants' demand and platform confidence. At this point in time, Merchants, in relation to the ecosystem, have done quite a lot. Traffic has increased. There are many business opportunities. Looking at our data, WeChat Mini Shops, front desk consulting has increased a lot. So for Weimob, especially for Mini Programs, small to micro merchants, new customers, there will be a big contribution in terms of volume. And for Weimob, in the early stage, many merchants got the bonus from Mini Programs. In the future, Mini Shops will attract many small customers or merchants to open shops on WeChat. So if the scale can reach RMB 2 trillion to RMB 3 trillion, then many more merchants will use WeChat e-commerce. To our ecosystem customers, there is big potential. At present, there is not very comprehensive data yet. So when [ longbao ] was introduced during CNY, people were fond of it, but I think it needs to be refined to further SQL, the product selection and so on. I think it is a more long-term product in the future in terms of search. On many WeChat critical scenarios and traffic points, it will be gradually released. I am optimistic about WeChat e-commerce value in the long run, and Weimob will also gain from this kind of wireless e-commerce.

My last question is about advertising business. In 2023 to 2024, for media and stores, they are reducing advertising rebates. In the future, what is your strategy to face up to such decline? How can you maintain a certain ratio in the gap in rebates? And for advertising net profit, how much ratio would it account for in the gross billing? In 2024, your advertising revenue increased fast. And overall scale is quite big in the future. So you want to maintain advertising cash inflow. How can you make sure that there will be business growth and profit growth?

Well, let me answer with some data. In fact, Mr. You had shared our strategy. In 2025, the rebate gap would go back to 2023 level because first, in 2024, there was one-off adjustment, which will not happen in 2025 again. Besides, we already said clearly that from 1st January this year, the rebate decline was passed on to our downstream already. So the rebate gap is quite certain now. Overall speaking, this year, for our net profit and gross billing, it will be 1 to 1.5 points. So if media strategies or media policies are better than perhaps 1.5 points or in the middle, 1.25 points, this year, we may not strive for increase in gross billing. This year, gross billing, RMB 18 billion, up 20-odd percent; channels, up 40-odd percent; Kuaishou, RED, [indiscernible], up 60%. This year, in order to maintain profit, we will actively adjust our customer mix. So long cycle, low profit, no-profit customers will be taken out. Gross billing will be slightly affected as compared to the previous year, but it will be at around RMB 17 billion. Overall customers will be healthier. Profit will also be healthier. For profit management, the most important thing is to manage well our customers' collection of revenue. Then if we can do that, then the rebate gap will be such that we can keep our profit under good control. Next, Mr. You can go through in detail our strategies, especially collection strategies.

Yes. Now let me elaborate on 2 points. One, cost reduction. The other is revenue increase. Now the base of our advertising revenue is quite big. There are many customers. So when media presented a new policy, we have to communicate with our customers. That took time. Our base was big. As a result, the rebate decline strategy was affected. So this year, in 2025, in December, we had already communicated with customers about rebate. That was deliberation, and it was very effective. Right now, the rebate for our customers is within expectation. So we will continue to safeguard and manage the rebate point on the sales side with customers. That should be a control and management mechanism. Number two, operation efficiency improvement. For example, our WAI Pro product in the past, for our advertising content, it is mainly in the form of pictures, images, now short video. So cost is high. With AI, it greatly enhanced our production efficiency. Now we are fully embracing AI tools. Everybody is using AI in our company to generate content. So on this, we have achieved much effect. Now for our manpower, it is reduced by 35% to 40%, but the output efficiency did not decrease. It actually was improved. So our cost expense over output ratio has improved. And then for collection strategy, now Tencent's share is quite high, 80% roughly. So we hope to diversify in media to offer full channel industry solutions. So with customers with good potential, we will expedite their investment in multimedia so as to enhance income per customer. So our breadth and depth of service for customers will be enhanced. And then we will dig deeper into various media. We will see the benefits from policies. For example, [indiscernible], Kuaishou, still see quite a lot of bonus, so to speak. Now they are in early stage of commercialization. We will closely work with them, with customers and experience accumulated from our work with Tencent. We believe that we will benefit more. And then technological innovation, this can drive diversification of revenue. Now we are in the process of tech innovation. We hope to create a SaaS service chain. And then with WeChat Mini Shops, we will expand the past carriers and service possibilities. And for e-commerce, of course, there is a lot of potential for [indiscernible] bottom layer capabilities and our data capability. They can be used in business in a more precise and highly effective way. Recently, we are exploring new commercialization revenue model, especially advertising. In the past, there was only very homogeneous advertising rebate, operation service fee and so on. So we did not co-create GMV with customers. But now we will diversify our revenue source. So for advertising business, I have just lined out our business moves in terms of cost reduction and revenue expansion. Thank you.

Because of time constraints, we will conclude today's call. On behalf of Weimob management team, I would like to thank you for your participation in today's conference call. If you have further questions about Weimob, please feel free to contact the IR team. Thank you. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]